Home buyers skipping inspections - Ontario content

[Raymond Wand]

CTV Toronto: Home buyers skipping inspections
Toronto’s red hot real estate market is forcing home buyers to skip getting a home inspection done. Natalie Johnson reports.
TORONTO.CTVNEWS.CA

http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=1046661

[Claude Lawrenson]

CTV Toronto: Home buyers skipping inspections
Toronto’s red hot real estate market is forcing home buyers to skip getting a home inspection done. Natalie Johnson reports.
TORONTO.CTVNEWS.CA

http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=1046661
Thanks Raymond....so much for "consumer protection" by licensing home inspectors. It will be interesting to say the least to see who survives.

In discussion with a number of other inspectors this "revocation of a home inspection" has decimated the number of inspectors and certainly has a huge impact on who will survive and be able to afford a license.

This is not just a Toronto, Ottawa or London area condition, but reported in a number of other larger cities such as Vancouver, etc.

[ROBERT YOUNG]

Claude, I have said all along, the consumer is responsible for their own choices.

Joe ferry has the numbers on meritless claims.
1300 meritless claims and an astonishing, 99.7 success rate.:D

"consumer protection" and home inspector licensing. Don't make me laugh. Those who want cheap inspection get a cheap inspection.

The bubble, which is here, can be stop through provincial legislation. $$$GDP
The mortgage companies lobby hard to insure their bottom line is protected by you the citizen tax payers.
Food for thought.

[Claude Lawrenson]

Claude, I have said all along, the consumer is responsible for their own choices.

Joe ferry has the numbers on meritless claims.
1300 meritless claims and an astonishing, 99.7 success rate.:D

"consumer protection" and home inspector licensing. Don't make me laugh. Those who want cheap inspection get a cheap inspection.

The bubble, which is here, can be stop through provincial legislation. $$$GDP
The mortgage companies lobby hard to insure their bottom line is protected by you the citizen tax payers.
Food for thought.
Robert respectfully in a bidding-war scenario, home buyers are waiving the home inspection. I spoke to one buyer who indicated that he was outbid on 20 homes. Put a home inspection condition as part of your offer and the offer is not even in the running.

You can't blame the buyers when their conditions are limited. Having a home inspected after the fact of taking possession is too late. It's simply "caveat emptor".

The other part of this is buying or replacing a home in an inflated market also creates another problem.

This is not about meritless claims - this about lack of protection when purchasing a home.

- - - Updated - - -

Duplicated post....

[ROBERT YOUNG]

Robert respectfully in a bidding-war scenario, home buyers are waiving the home inspection. I spoke to one buyer who indicated that he was outbid on 20 homes. Put a home inspection condition as part of your offer and the offer is not even in the running.

You can't blame the buyers when their conditions are limited. Having a home inspected after the fact of taking possession is too late. It's simply "caveat emptor".

The other part of this is buying or replacing a home in an inflated market also creates another problem.

This is not about meritless claims - this about lack of protection when purchasing a home.

- - - Updated - - -

Duplicated post....

Respectfully, Claude, the obvious is to legislate REA and mortgage brokers and banks be required to recommend home inspections prior any purchase.

If the market is there, then why aren't builders building homes? The million dollar question. Hmmm???

Make it easier for builders to borrow capital to build homes.

As for licensing and regulations, Joe statistics and expertise would surely be rewarding, but why ask Joe? Just hum and whine about insurance companies not being transparent with their clients confidential information.

Personally I just do not get it.

[Raymond Wand]

I have no sympathy for buyers who pay exorbitant prices without any conditions. But part of the problem here is that there is a shortage of listings, and shortage of new homes to fill the demand.
Supply and demand dictate what is going on.

And no, the government should not make inspections mandatory. We do not need any further government involvement in Ontarians lives and personal affairs. Anyone who lives here knows how badly our provincial government is ruling. Five criminal OPP investigations into Wynne Bags governance!

Hence businesses are closing or relocating out of province due to electricity costs, red tape, governmental interference, taxes, and high cost of living here in Ontario.

It's really is depressing and sad the way a once very prosperous province has become a shadow of what it once was.

[ROBERT YOUNG]

I have no sympathy for buyers who pay exorbitant prices without any conditions. But part of the problem here is that there is a shortage of listings, and shortage of new homes to fill the demand.
Supply and demand dictate what is going on.

Demand is required but not being fulfilled. Why?


And no, the government should not make inspections mandatory. We do not need any further government involvement in Ontarians lives and personal affairs. Anyone who lives here knows how badly our provincial government is ruling. Five criminal OPP investigations into Wynne Bags governance!

Recommended, Ray. No demain.


Hence businesses are closing or relocating out of province due to electricity costs, red tape, governmental interference, taxes, and high cost of living here in Ontario.

It's really is depressing and sad the way a once very prosperous province has become a shadow of what it once was.

Governments are to be steered by the populus. Not the other way around.

[Garry Sorrells]

Mandating that it be "recommended" is the first step to being "mandatory" by government. Maybe we should build a wall at the border so that this will not spill over into the U.S.

Mama Forest had it right " stupid is as stupid does".

Then the buyer could bring an HI with them to view the house. Maybe not get as full of an inspection as they would get with a formal HI but they would be better off than not having the HI along.

[Raymond Wand]

Robert,

“Price growth accelerated throughout 2016 as the supply of listings remained very constrained. Active listings at the end of December were at their lowest point in a decade-and-a-half. Total new listings for 2016 were down by almost four per cent. In 2016, we saw policy changes and policy debates pointed at the demand side of the market. If we want to see a sustained moderation in the pace of price growth, what we really need is more policy focus on issues impacting the lack of homes available for sale,” said Jason Mercer, TREB’s Director of Market Analysis.

Toronto Real Estate Board - Statistics (http://creastats.crea.ca/treb/)

[ROBERT YOUNG]

Ray, you do a better job of saying what I mean.:D

[Claude Lawrenson]

I have no sympathy for buyers who pay exorbitant prices without any conditions. But part of the problem here is that there is a shortage of listings, and shortage of new homes to fill the demand.
Supply and demand dictate what is going on.

And no, the government should not make inspections mandatory. We do not need any further government involvement in Ontarians lives and personal affairs. Anyone who lives here knows how badly our provincial government is ruling. Five criminal OPP investigations into Wynne Bags governance!

Hence businesses are closing or relocating out of province due to electricity costs, red tape, governmental interference, taxes, and high cost of living here in Ontario.

It's really is depressing and sad the way a once very prosperous province has become a shadow of what it once was.
Ray et al with all due respect - what are the options to "mandatory" inspections? Who will protect consumers? It is obvious that the market provides really no protection short of suing when or if there's negligence or fraud. I agree that stakeholders will twist the facts to suit their own personal needs.

Lets face the facts, when was the last time an aged houses was inspected, short of at the time of a building or electrical permit. Even than, it is not as thorough of an inspection that is likely reviewing "conditions" or changes in a home.

So I'm curious what others propose as how they would "protect" consumers. Certainly it appears that Realtors could do that, but that seems to have faded away to the back burner, when "conditions" of a home inspection are waived.

[Raymond Wand]

Claude

I have to ask back at you why you feel government should be big brother? Its not like the purchasers are not protected. If they feel they have been wronged by a vendor they have recourse through the courts. Same as it is now without licencing or mandatory inspections.

Government has a terrible record of managing programs and interfering in the free market place.

Perhaps the answer to the quandary is mandatory vendor disclosure statements.

[ROBERT YOUNG]

Ray,
33284

Well I never.
33285
Opps.......

[Claude Lawrenson]

Claude

I have to ask back at you why you feel government should be big brother? Its not like the purchasers are not protected. If they feel they have been wronged by a vendor they have recourse through the courts. Same as it is now without licencing or mandatory inspections.

Government has a terrible record of managing programs and interfering in the free market place.

Perhaps the answer to the quandary is mandatory vendor disclosure statements.

Ray - I don't disagree, but weigh the other options. Self-regulation has not worked. So I kindly ask how can we fix what we have now in Ontario, if not for the future of the H.I. sector as a whole.

First of all - time has proven that home inspection associations all have their imperfections. Yes, be it their own specific favoured courses, mandatory means of making money, duplication of administrative fees, who's in and who is not - just to name a few.

Example - I'm a founding member of OAHI. Since I belong to other "enemy of that association" associations, I have been basically black listed. Once upon a time I was deemed and qualified as an educator a facilitator with said association. Now - I'm simply non-entity.

Next - what about those outside of the associations? We have a good number of inspectors that are unknown and some degree unaccounted for. The old saying - anyone can hang out their shingle and become a home inspector.

Example - again take your own local phone directory and count the number of inspectors, and consider those that you have heard of in your market. How many have any real certifications or membership in an association?

Or how about - we just can't seem to get along? Fracturing and creation of new associations and divisiveness seems to be the M.O. for home inspection associations. We have on group claiming and boasting they will conquer the world, and others claiming that their way is the best way. Not to forget that favoured influence peddling happens.

Again another example - BC - a home inspector no longer requires membership in an association. Rightly or wrongly, is this the trend for the future? Additionally in BC the rules about education, training and mentorship (Field supervised training) has changed. Do you feel this will not have an impact on BC inspectors?

Of course we can also look at the bigger picture - what about one consistent unified "standard" for the profession? CMHC tried that, only to have it derailed after other self-protecting and preserving a specific designation that felt threatened by a National Program. again the belief about being better than!

Or how about that CSA Standard for Home Inspectors. Seems that we all have our own favoured standard. Again another perfect example of "vive la difference".

So you see - home inspectors are largely in Canada, individual independent business people that feel their way is the best way. They feel they don't need oversight. Yet look at where we are? Who caused that? (Not pointing fingers - but!)

I'm not saying government regulation (aka: licensing) and intervention is the complete answer to fix the problems. But certainly where can we find some way to fix the problems and at the same time "really" protect consumers? Or is that just wishful thinking?

Just looking for some honest to goodness alternatives.

[ROBERT YOUNG]

Claude, at al, great conversation.

You ask, "Where can we find some way to fix the problems and at the same time "really" protect consumers? "

At the beginning, one article at a time.

Existing business regulations must be enforced.
Accountability on the business side requires public business transparency.
Vehicle signage.
Commercial vehicle insurance.
The government's not doing this are accountable for any erosion in consumer protection.
You heard it all before.


"Or is that just wishful thinking?"
Discussion's is open dialog.

[Raymond Wand]

Ray - I don't disagree, but weigh the other options. Self-regulation has not worked. So I kindly ask how can we fix what we have now in Ontario, if not for the future of the H.I. sector as a whole.
Good question, I don't have the answer, but I still think the government has fudged facts in order to move forward, we've had that conversation previously about number of complaints.


First of all - time has proven that home inspection associations all have their imperfections. Yes, be it their own specific favoured courses, mandatory means of making money, duplication of administrative fees, who's in and who is not - just to name a few. Yes I understand completely.


Example - I'm a founding member of OAHI. Since I belong to other "enemy of that association" associations, I have been basically black listed. Once upon a time I was deemed and qualified as an educator a facilitator with said association. Now - I'm simply non-entity. I hear ya, we both know how the clique operates, the directors are only seat warmers. OAHI is run behind the scenes by a select few. You remember reading on the OAHI forum how the DPPC Chair openly discussed private matters. Only to find out that if I has wished to persue OAHI for their negligence I would have won the suit.


Next - what about those outside of the associations? We have a good number of inspectors that are unknown and some degree unaccounted for. The old saying - anyone can hang out their shingle and become a home inspector. You mean like Mike Holmes? ;)


Example - again take your own local phone directory and count the number of inspectors, and consider those that you have heard of in your market. How many have any real certifications or membership in an association? I know there are a few so called associations plying lies in order to make themselves look larger and represent members they have no authority to represent. To top it off then we see association directors conducting themselves in non professional manners and than think their bylaws are only for the minions. What a farce.


Or how about - we just can't seem to get along? Fracturing and creation of new associations and divisiveness seems to be the M.O. for home inspection associations. We have on group claiming and boasting they will conquer the world, and others claiming that their way is the best way. Not to forget that favoured influence peddling happens. Yes I know its a real farce, but then look who is leading the Assoc and the directors who just can't help themselves.


Again another example - BC - a home inspector no longer requires membership in an association. Rightly or wrongly, is this the trend for the future? Additionally in BC the rules about education, training and mentorship (Field supervised training) has changed. Do you feel this will not have an impact on BC inspectors? I agree associations should not be required.

Thanks Claude, we are on the same page.

Best,