Hot PICs from the InterNACHI House of Horrors Home Inspector Training Facility: [Archive] - InspectionNews

Jerry Peck

02-03-2017, 11:24 PM

Non-graspable handrail, open step risers, climbable mesh used as guards, newel post spacing(?)

You got most of the obvious ones, but there are these too:
- look at the second person from the left, her foot under the bottom rail - if you need to, zoom in a little and see how high up on her ankle it is, then measure your ankle down to the floor ...
- you said non-graspable handrail, I'm not seeing a handrail, just a top of the guard (the top of a guard is required to be 42 inches in a non-dwelling unit (and that is a commercial installation) and a handrail is required to be between 34 inches and 38 inches above the plane of the nosings, which means the top of that guard is not permitted to be used as a handrail.

Some not so obvious ones:
- Look under the bottom of the top rail of the guard, this makes me question how strong the guard in-fill is ... how well fixed in place is that wire mesh, it looks like it is just stuck up into a slot. Is the bottom in the same way?
- I wonder if that wire mesh is 6x6 ... ?
- Is there a slot sawn into the 4x4 post and the wire mesh is slipped through it? That will surely weaken the 4x4, and if not, further questionable attachment of the guard infill (the infill is supposed to be able to resist 50 pounds sq ft horizontal load - if that is inserted as I suspect, I doubt it will resist that load)

The above raises the question as to whether that was constructed with a permit?

ROBERT YOUNG

02-04-2017, 12:37 AM

Jerry, that is the point of the installation.
I think there are over 1,200 built in feature defects and deficiencies in the structures, systems and components by bonafide builders.

I bet you love to see it. Come on, admit it.:boink:

It a bloody permanent training model, school and exposition all under one roof.
You must admit Jerry, an industry first, with many great future possibilities.

Lesa, see if you can arrange a pass for Mr. Peck and a companion to InterNACHI's House of Horrors.

Robert Sheppard

02-04-2017, 06:03 AM

Jerry Peck

02-04-2017, 07:53 AM

Jerry, that is the point of the installation.

Robert,

I'm not referring to 'defects in the house', I'm referring to defects 'in the viewing structure' the people are standing on.

Robert, are you okay? Either (or both): you have been drinking way too much of Nick's kool-aid; you haven't had your coffee yet ...

Otherwise you would not have said or even thought that ... are you trying to say that Nick is showing us a 2x4 stair like someone builds in their house ... really?

ROBERT YOUNG

02-04-2017, 02:40 PM

Robert,

I'm not referring to 'defects in the house', I'm referring to defects 'in the viewing structure' the people are standing on.

Robert, are you okay? Either (or both): you have been drinking way too much of Nick's kool-aid; you haven't had your coffee yet ...

Otherwise you would not have said or even thought that ... are you trying to say that Nick is showing us a 2x4 stair like someone builds in their house ... really?

Jerry, ask Lisa for a pass.
I stopped stirring the Kool Aid in the previous post.

I was sent videos of the educators, founder's brother, members and qualified builders erecting everything.
"It is illusional"
Why so many egregious defects?
That is what we see on an ongoing basis.

Best, Jerry.

Jerry Peck

02-04-2017, 03:35 PM

Why so many egregious defects?
That is what we see on an ongoing basis.

Robert,

You still don't get it.

You have drunk so much of the kool-aid that you can't even see the photo I separated from the others and quoted in my post, can you?

If you can, and if it is just that you haven't had your coffee yet (I keep trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here, but am losing that 'doubt') then describe the stair, the guard, and the railing in THAT photo and tell me, with a straight face (which is not delusional) that you actually think you will ever ... ever ... see that stair, that guard, and that infill in a house.

I keep thinking you may not have had your coffee yet, but it is getting late in the day, which is causing me to wonder ...

Maybe John will point out to Robert what is being discussed? (John, I think ... hope ... Robert just hasn't had his coffee yet, but would you point out to Robert what my post was discussing and what is in that photo that he apparently does not see, thanks.)

ROBERT YOUNG

02-04-2017, 04:29 PM

Jerry, why you even bothering to ask me?
It was built to have defects.
I am sure the building authorities in Colorado and NACHI "team of lawyers" worked it all out.;)

Jerry Peck

02-04-2017, 04:53 PM

Jerry, why you even bothering to ask me?
It was built to have defects.
I am sure the building authorities in Colorado and NACHI "team of lawyers" worked it all out.;)

You really, truly, honestly either didn't bother to read my post ... or didn't care what I was talking about but insisted on answering anyway ... or ...

You really, truly, honestly either didn't understand my post ... or didn't care what the words were saying and insisted on answering anyway ... or ...

... rather ... AND ...

You still keep replying without having read and/or understood my post and simply don't care other than to just keep posting anyway.

Jerry Peck

02-04-2017, 05:13 PM

Robert,

Here is the photo being discussed and my post again - giving you one last try for that light bulb to go off in your head and for you to say "OHhhh ... NOooow ... I GET IT!"

These PICs where taken this week at Inspector Boost:

33287

How many violations, unsafe conditions, and such jump right out at you guys in that photo?

Robert ... did that light bulb go off in your head yet? Please tell me that you now understand what those words mean and are referring to.

Even if you go "OH! THAT photo!" ... that would be a start.

ROBERT YOUNG

02-04-2017, 05:32 PM

I would start by disassembling the platform to see what components are hidden from view:-)

ROBERT YOUNG

02-04-2017, 05:43 PM

Always remember, "As Iron Sharpens Iron, As One Man Sharpens Another"

Jerry Peck

02-04-2017, 06:09 PM

I would start by disassembling the platform to see what components are hidden from view:-)

You just don't ... or can't ... get it, do you?

Why on earth would you "start by disassembling" anything when the question was "jump right out at you"?

You really are not bothering to actually read it before you reply are you?

ROBERT YOUNG

02-04-2017, 06:55 PM

You just don't ... or can't ... get it, do you?

Why on earth would you "start by disassembling" anything when the question was "jump right out at you"?

You really are not bothering to actually read it before you reply are you?

You said, "I'm not referring to 'defects in the house', I'm referring to defects 'in the viewing structure' the people are standing on."
My reply, I would start by disassembling the platform to see what components are hidden from view:-)

Are we on the same page?

ROBERT YOUNG

02-04-2017, 07:18 PM

Jerry, I was emailed video clips of most everything being erected by Nick and Ben Gromicko.

They further went on to email "360 degree virtual viewing" once the "platforms" were ready to start erecting the House Of Horrors.

Component, structures and systems took many months to complete and I was emailed virtual video clips, many hour of, up to a point of completion.

Ron Hufford, well renowned for his work in EIFS and Stucco, Kenton Shepard, building contractor, both of which are employees now for InterNACHI, along with HVAC installers, electricians, plumbers, stick frames, roofers, and a team other other professionals all worked to create this great home inspection teaching academy, InterNACHI House Of Horrors.

Sorry I left out the many names I recognised that are all part of, and have been part of, InterNACHI'S success from the get go.

I was proud they allowed a member like myself to watch this great achievement being erected from scratch.

Jerry Peck

02-04-2017, 07:29 PM

You said, "I'm not referring to 'defects in the house', I'm referring to defects 'in the viewing structure' the people are standing on."
My reply, I would start by disassembling the platform to see what components are hidden from view:-)

Are we on the same page?

YOU ARE NOT EVEN IN THE SAME BOOK!

Did you even read what you just wrote?

And what I wrote about "jump right out at you"?

- - - Updated - - -

Jerry, I was emailed video clips of most everything being erected by Nick and Ben Gromicko.

They further went on to email "360 degree virtual viewing" once the "platforms" were ready to start erecting the House Of Horrors.

Component, structures and systems took many months to complete and I was emailed virtual video clips, many hour of, up to a point of completion.

Ron Hufford, well renowned for his work in EIFS and Stucco, Kenton Shepard, building contractor, both of which are employees now for InterNACHI, along with HVAC installers, electricians, plumbers, stick frames, roofers, and a team other other professionals all worked to create this great home inspection teaching academy, InterNACHI House Of Horrors.

Sorry I left out the many names I recognised that are all part of, and have been part of, InterNACHI'S success from the get go.

I was proud they allowed a member like myself to watch this great achievement being erected from scratch.

Robert,

You really are not reading anything I write or you write are you?

If you were, you would understand that the above IS NOT APPLICABLE TO THE DISCUSSION!

Robert, go take a nap, drink some coffee - AND PLEASE ... no more of that kool-aid!

ROBERT YOUNG

02-04-2017, 07:45 PM

Your first post: "How many violations, unsafe conditions, and such jump right out at you guys in that photo?"

Limitations prohibit me from answering.:p
Have a good night.

ROBERT YOUNG

02-04-2017, 07:54 PM

As well, if you are going to use codes, IBC - IMC - IECC - NEC - IPC - IFGC - NFPA
https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/osa/bldgcodes

ROBERT YOUNG

02-04-2017, 08:08 PM

You got most of the obvious ones, but there are these too:
- look at the second person from the left, her foot under the bottom rail - if you need to, zoom in a little and see how high up on her ankle it is, then measure your ankle down to the floor ...
6 inches (152 mm) cannot passthrough.

- you said non-graspable handrail, I'm not seeing a handrail, just a top of the guard (the top of a guard is required to be 42 inches in a non-dwelling unit (and that is a commercial installation) and a handrail is required to be between 34 inches and 38 inches above the plane of the nosings, which means the top of that guard is not permitted to be used as a handrail.

1013.2 Height. Guards shall form a protective barrier not lessthan 42 inches (1067 mm) high, measured vertically above the leading edge of the tread, adjacentwalking surface or adjacent seatboard. Exceptions: 1. For occupancies in Group R-3, and withinindividual dwelling units in occupancies in Group R-2, guards whose top rail also serves as a handrailshall have a height not less than 34 inches (864 mm) and not more than 38 inches (965 mm)measured vertically from the leading edge of the stair tread nosing. 2. The height in assembly seatingareas shall be in accordance with Section 1025.14.[/QUOTE]

Some not so obvious ones:
- Look under the bottom of the top rail of the guard, this makes me question how strong the guard in-fill is ... how well fixed in place is that wire mesh, it looks like it is just stuck up into a slot. Is the bottom in the same way?
- I wonder if that wire mesh is 6x6 ... ?
- Is there a slot sawn into the 4x4 post and the wire mesh is slipped through it? That will surely weaken the 4x4, and if not, further questionable attachment of the guard infill (the infill is supposed to be able to resist 50 pounds sq ft horizontal load - if that is inserted as I suspect, I doubt it will resist that load)
What if the post has been bored to fit rebar steel?
What if under the wooden platform there is a steel platform you can not see?
What if everything was anchored to the steel platform and the platform on metal within wood posts anchored to the foor?

The above raises the question as to whether that was constructed with a permit?
You think Mr. Gromicko would do that?
It's like you do not even know the man yet you say he is an illusionist. Hmmm...

John Dirks Jr

02-05-2017, 06:23 AM

Jerry, there's no way I could make a better effort to clarify the intent you conveyed in post #6. I can only say that I "got it" instantly. I knew right away that you were not talking about the structure that was intentionally built with defects.

The non-graspable handrail I pointed out is barely in view at the far right of the picture. If that is a 2x4 as a handrail, the dimensions do not comply as I'm sure you know.

Robert, It's clear to me that you launched a defense to something that Jerry did not attack.

We all screw up to some degree now and then right? More than a few times I've had to declare my position as "I stand corrected". It's never easy but for me it's better than ignoring I was mistaken. One will do less damage to their image if they just eat the humble pie when its been served.

ROBERT YOUNG

02-05-2017, 06:42 AM

Jerry, there's no way I could make a better effort to clarify the intent you conveyed in post #6. I can only say that I "got it" instantly. I knew right away that you were not talking about the structure that was intentionally built with defects.

John, with all due respect, while some may agree, others may not.

The non-graspable handrail I pointed out is barely in view at the far right of the picture. If that is a 2x4 as a handrail, the dimensions do not comply as I'm sure you know.

If?

Robert, It's clear to me that you launched a defense to something that Jerry did not attack.

John, with all due respect, that is your opinion. While some may agree, others may not.

We all screw up to some degree now and then right? More than a few times I've had to declare my position as "I stand corrected". It's never easy but for me it's better than ignoring I was mistaken. One will do less damage to their image if they just eat the humble pie when its been served.

I concur. In this case, while some may agree, others may not.
As I expressed to Jerry, show me evidence, not facts or proof (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlvUVf6N5xw).

Jerry Peck

02-05-2017, 07:15 AM

As I expressed to Jerry, show me evidence, not facts or proof (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlvUVf6N5xw).

That says enough right there to stop responding to his nonsense ... he says he wants "evidence", but ignores the photo; then he clarifies his position by stating that he does not want "facts or proof"

ROBERT YOUNG

02-05-2017, 07:40 AM

Robert Sheppard

02-05-2017, 08:01 AM

Just having fun.
Sorry to pull your leg.:peep:

Think of this. If the platform everyone is standing is/was verified code complaint by an AHJ, as well, any amendments included, and hidden from view, would that make everything attached, the visible wood components and other defects cosmetic?

I am certain all the home inspectors that have been there asked the very same questions.

R105.4 Validity of permit. The issuance or granting of a permit
shall not be construed to be a permit for, or an approval of,
any violation of any of the provisions of this code or of any
other ordinance of the jurisdiction. Permits presuming to give
authority to violate or cancel the provisions of this code or
other ordinances of the jurisdiction shall not be valid. The
issuance of a permit based on construction documents and
other data shall not prevent the building official from requiring
the correction of errors in the construction documents and
other data. The building official is also authorized to prevent
occupancy or use of a structure where in violation of this code
or of any other ordinances of this jurisdiction.

R110.1 Use and occupancy. No building or structure shall
be used or occupied, and no change in the existing occupancy
classification of a building or structure or portion thereof
shall be made until the building official has issued a certificate
of occupancy therefor as provided herein. Issuance of a
certificate of occupancy shall not be construed as an approval
of a violation of the provisions of this code or of other ordinances
of the jurisdiction. Certificates presuming to give
authority to violate or cancel the provisions of this code or
other ordinances of the jurisdiction shall not be valid.

ROBERT YOUNG

02-05-2017, 08:22 AM

Robert, thank you.

I see the animosity but always wonder why.
Best of luck with your endeavors.

No wonder this industry is fragmented.

Claude Lawrenson

02-05-2017, 08:40 AM

Robert, thank you.

I see the animosity but always wonder why.
Best of luck with your endeavors.

No wonder this industry is fragmented.
Robert respectfully this is not about animosity, it's about expressing difference of opinion. Who or what one supports is about freedom of choice.

But honest goodness facts should speak for itself regarding truth. Perhaps as one person said in the past - "you can't handle the truth". At best I simply see the "House of Horrors" as a mock-up for educational purpose. But education needs to not just represent what's bad, or what some deem "horrors". What about what should a home inspector expect as an accepted norm?

BTW: This is not the first such house. There's already one similar to that was built about 10 years ago at a college in Ontario, Canada. So again facts seem to get distorted by ones stated promotion.

I also believe that it's best to keep "personality" or "personal bias" out of the discussion, and we can all find common ground. Likewise those that boast about being the biggest or best is in my opinion simply about stroking ones ego and need to gratify their existence. Simply stick to doing what we do best, our work and how we can help others and we can all learn to get along.

ROBERT YOUNG

02-05-2017, 12:02 PM

Robert respectfully this is not about animosity, it's about expressing difference of opinion. Who or what one supports is about freedom of choice.
I am all for freedom of choice.
I see animosity but that's my opinion.
Opinion, a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

But honest goodness facts should speak for itself regarding truth. Perhaps as one person said in the past - "you can't handle the truth". At best I simply see the "House of Horrors" as a mock-up for educational purpose. But education needs to not just represent what's bad, or what some deem "horrors". What about what should a home inspector expect as an accepted norm?
With all due respect, providing someone else's opinion as facts proves my point.
You are inferring circumstantial evidence at best. Evidence relying on (inference) to connect it to a conclusion of fact.
I prefer evidence-based practice (EBP). This involves complex conscientious, decision-making which is based not only on the "available evidence," but also on patient characteristics, situations, and preferences.

BTW: This is not the first such house. There's already one similar to that was built about 10 years ago at a college in Ontario, Canada. So again facts seem to get distorted by ones stated promotion.
Provide evidence please. Because if that is the case, all educational models are the same.

I agree with, Modern day home inspection education and home inspection associations. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqTTojTija8)

So stay stuck in your mind set. I will not.

I also believe that it's best to keep "personality" or "personal bias" out of the discussion, and we can all find common ground. Likewise those that boast about being the biggest or best is in my opinion simply about stroking ones ego and need to gratify their existence. Simply stick to doing what we do best, our work and how we can help others and we can all learn to get along.

I concur. I refer to my post above.

Jerry Peck

02-05-2017, 01:31 PM

As well, if you are going to use codes, IBC - IMC - IECC - NEC - IPC - IFGC - NFPA
https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/osa/bldgcodes

6 inches (152 mm) cannot passthrough.

Robert,

Your actions of either not reading what is posted, no reading what even you post, and not reading the references you provide, or not caring what is written ... then replying anyway ... is what is being pointed out.

YOU may take it as animosity, others may not, but the thing YOU should take away from it is that you really, really, really, really ... do need to start replying to what is actually stated and with actual facts.

Take you statements above for example: you posted the posts (for Colorado, but that is a different issue for a different discussion). which happens to be the ICC codes (which helps shorten that different discussion), yet you apparently did not read what the code requires, did not understand what the code requires, or did not care, and you simply posted something which was not even in the codes YOU referenced.

Go here Codes and Standards | ICC publicACCESS™ (http://codes.iccsafe.org/app/book/content/2015-I-Codes/2015%20IBC%20HTML/Chapter%2010.html) for your reading enjoyment and education.

- 1015.4 Opening Limitations. Requried guards shall not have openings that allow passage of a sphere 4 inches (102 mm) in diameter from the walking surface to the required guard height. - - Exceptions:
- - - 1. (not applicable to this discussion)
- - - 2. (not applicable to the item pointed out in this discussion, but which might be applicable to another aspect of the discussion if the discussion were to go there)
- - - 3. (not applicable to this discussion)
- - - 4. (not applicable to this discussion)
- - - 5. (not applicable to this discussion)
- - - 6. (not applicable to this discussion)

Being as none of the Exceptions is applicable to the discussion and the item pointed out (the bottom rail of the guard with the ankle under it) ... Robert, where do you get your "6 inches (152 mm) cannot passthrough."?

Claude Lawrenson

02-05-2017, 03:09 PM

Robert stated: "Because if that is the case, all educational models are the same.

I agree with, Modern day home inspection education and home inspection associations.

So stay stuck in your mind set. I will not."

Well good for you - you claim NOT to be stuck, but once again indicate through your post your lack of knowledge and understanding regarding changes that have taken place within the education system.

I might partially agree that some educational institutions have not changed very much, but you simply discount those that have invested very heavily in what many educational institutions in North America have completed under the new paradigm to stay current with todays generation.

As a former college professor in the School of Engineering Technologies, we annually completed a program by program review, and underwent a review with public consultation with outside stakeholders and employers every 5 years. YES, program content and delivery changed on a regular basis. So for you to once again generalize that all education models are the same, than you proved your lack of knowledge and understanding of the education system.

Respectfully - once again your bias is showing.

Garry Sorrells

02-05-2017, 07:07 PM

Robert, you are/have turned into Mr Wood I think.

Evidence of prior educational structure showing incorrect construction and code practices. It is out there, I remember it and it does seem like its been 10 years.

Possibly it can be found, though I am sure you would not except its existence no matter what you were presented with since you seem to have become a "Woodtonian".

Marc M

02-05-2017, 10:27 PM

So all those people who just got certified are now inspectors? Its that easy huh? So what about the thousands of issues that are not in that house? lame...

- - - Updated - - -

There are millions of ways to build something wrong. the better way is to show them how to build it right.
BTW... well said RS.

Garry Sorrells

02-06-2017, 04:20 AM

So all those people who just got certified are now inspectors? Its that easy huh? ..........

With the association's crowning of " Certified Professional Inspector ". Something like being titled " Knight of the Realm Grand Pooba Inspector. "

ROBERT YOUNG

02-06-2017, 05:15 PM

Ray, Jim appears confused again.
It appears he is the #1 cause of his associations woes.
Too bad, So sad.

That being said.
I am not going to defend what should have been seen as something good for the industry, and it is first House Of Horrors.

If you wish to build one, then do so, instead of calling what others built inappropriate.

As expressed, the animosity runs deep.

Lisa Endza

02-06-2017, 05:35 PM

ROBERT YOUNG

02-06-2017, 07:26 PM

[QUOTE=Jim Mosiuk;272065][QUOTE=Raymond Wand;272063]
As for Nachi I can still log on and post if I wish, but why would I when there are members like you who show they have little intellect or functional social skills?.

Jim fails to see you are a member in good standing at InterNACHI. I wanted to tell him many times but it was not my place.

Nick has taken many past irresponsible members to task and asked all members that have been expelled by the kangaroo court to return.

Many refuse to use the MB for good reasons. Hopefully things well change for the good.

As you well know Ray, benefits are rewarding. I will leave it at that.

Best.

Marc M

02-06-2017, 08:30 PM

We're putting about 850 inspectors a month through the House of Horrors, making it the largest inspection training facility on earth. InterNACHI School – Classroom training from the International Association of Certified Home Inspectors (http://www.nachi.org/school)
Sounds like you're mass producing illegitimacy. So what percentage of those 850 have Zero construction / building code experience? Ladies and gentlemen, thats 850 inspectors taking food out of your mouth by lowering the bar and charging less and providing less just to get their foot in the door and at least 850 buyers who will likely be getting screwed sometime soon.
BTW, there are other ways of getting SEO links...

Marc M

02-06-2017, 08:36 PM

With the association's crowning of " Certified Professional Inspector ". Something like being titled " Knight of the Realm Grand Pooba Inspector. "
hahaha... is there a difference? I think not.

ROBERT YOUNG

02-07-2017, 04:40 AM

You gentlemen should be ashamed of yourselves. If you disagree with someone or a particular educational procedure/process, move on or professionally argue any points with evidence.

Many state licensing boards agree with these educational procedures. Nothing more to say on the subject unless other associations can match and better under the same circumstances "with all things being equal."

You fail to realize, when you started in the home inspection industry your aspirations were great, and may I dare to say you had a passion to be the best and carve out a business in your area amongst the competition.
Now many of you are seasoned professionals many admire, many with decades of experience, including research and development R&D, AHJ, Authorities Having Jurisdiction, or licensed trade professionals.
Well InterNACHI has many members with those attributes as well.

If you do not like marketing then so be it, but that is part and parcel of doing business. One must learn to accept it.

I said my piece.

ROBERT YOUNG

02-07-2017, 05:35 AM

Marc, I respect all home inspection businesses.
Unfortunately many will not make it after spending much time and finances.
Why, because they were ill prepared.
Having live hands on education is a great first great step. But the road is long... with anguish at times ahead.
Work hard, stay motivated, and much success to everyone.

Sounds like you're mass producing illegitimacy.
No, they are producing legitimacy. State accepted legitimacy. Please remember that. The bar has been set by the state. InterNACHI education reaches and surpasses those requirements.

So what percentage of those 850 have Zero construction / building code experience?
Why should you or anyone become privy to that information?

Ladies and gentlemen, thats 850 inspectors taking food out of your mouth by lowering the bar and charging less and providing less just to get their foot in the door and at least 850 buyers who will likely be getting screwed sometime soon.
BTW, there are other ways of getting SEO links...

In poor taste sir. That accusation is down and out defamatory and baseless.
Competition comes in many forms, including swings in the housing market and marketing. Welcome to being a business.
You have not stepped one foot in the door of the center yet you are willing to condone the many that attend, the educational model, and the academia provided?
Not what I expected from you.

Good luck with your business.
Robert

Robert Sheppard

02-07-2017, 06:02 AM

No, they are producing legitimacy. State accepted legitimacy. Please remember that. The bar has been set by the state. InterNACHI education reaches and surpasses those requirements.

Internachi SoP's don't meet the minimum state SoP's for Home Inspection licensure in my state. Trust me, the state SoP's aren't that high in the first place.

I once had a long conversation with a state level official about course approval. They don't actually review the course material for each submittal. The "responsibility" of the course material is placed directly on the course provider.

If Internachi is setting the standard for education and SoP in your country.....god help you!

Garry Sorrells

02-07-2017, 06:30 AM

With the association's crowning of " Certified Professional Inspector ". Something like being titled " Knight of the Realm Grand Pooba Inspector. "

hahaha... is there a difference? I think not.

.......................

If you do not like marketing then so be it, but that is part and parcel of doing business. One must learn to accept it.

I said my piece.

The issue may lie with so many using situational ethics. It seems that many accept the concept that it is permissible, if not mandatory, to provide a false impression when veiled as part of marketing .

Robert, you offer the position that one should like it or lump it (not sure if that translated in Canadian) when it comes to marketing . That position is one that I take umbrage. No one should accept that it is acceptable as part of a business model to lie and obfuscate the truth as to better your position in the market place.

I see many that post the title of "Citified Professional Inspector" who absolutely have little knowledge of what they speak, yet they want to create an impression that they do.

Attempting to parse the title to justify what it is attempting to convey would be another example of situational ethics being applied to the situation. Granted I will acknowledge that many in the industry know full and well what the title actually conveys, but the reality is that we know what it is attempting to convey to the uninformed public.

As my last thought;
Robert, your response to Marc question is a bit incredulous. It was a fair and reasonable point to question. Granted the correct answer may or may not be favorable to someones position, yet it would add insight.

http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_inspection/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Marc M http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_inspection/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_inspection/associations-ethics-standards-licensing-legislation-home-inspectors-and-commercial-inspectors/47716-hot-pics-internachi-house-horrors-home-inspector-training-facility-post272075.html#post272075) ; So what percentage of those 850 have Zero construction / building code experience? "

And Robert your response was; " Why should you become privy to that information? "

You should not worry about the truth, though it may be a bit painful at times. :o
This may help...

https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_ylt=A0LEVjoFzJlYVE0Ai.knnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTBy MjB0aG5zBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzYw--?p=Don%27t+Be+Sad+Be+Happy+Song&fr=yhs-mozilla-004&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-004#id=6&vid=ededd4344eae139df5e3307361b09c14&action=view

Jerry Peck

02-07-2017, 06:32 AM

I do not play your way.

It is painfully obvious that you don't play well with others.

I am done here

Promise?

KW didn't play well here either, if you want to talk about obvious trends, indications, and patterns, then the obvious trending indication leads to a pattern which suggests that NACHO members don't play well here - maybe because they get to much push- back on what they praise as they don't seem to be able to see the obvious.

ROBERT YOUNG

02-07-2017, 07:07 AM

Internachi SoP's don't meet the minimum state SoP's for Home Inspection licensure in my state. Trust me, the state SoP's aren't that high in the first place.

I once had a long conversation with a state level official about course approval. They don't actually review the course material for each submittal. The "responsibility" of the course material is placed directly on the course provider.

If Internachi is setting the standard for education and SoP in your country.....god help you!

In your country?
Regulations are left up to the state or province as in your country.

In my province, Quebec, NACHI SOP is acceptable under the OACIQ. They regulate real estate brokerage.

Best.

Robert Sheppard

02-07-2017, 07:11 AM

In your country?
Regulations are left up to the state or province as in your country.

In my province, Quebec, NACHI SOP is acceptable under the OACIQ. They regulate real estate brokerage.

Best.

.......you're screwed.

ROBERT YOUNG

02-07-2017, 07:12 AM

The issue may lie with so many using situational ethics. It seems that many accept the concept that it is permissible, if not mandatory, to provide a false impression when veiled as part of marketing .

Robert, you offer the position that one should like it or lump it (not sure if that translated in Canadian) when it comes to marketing . That position is one that I take umbrage. No one should accept that it is acceptable as part of a business model to lie and obfuscate the truth as to better your position in the market place.

I see many that post the title of "Citified Professional Inspector" who absolutely have little knowledge of what they speak, yet they want to create an impression that they do.

Attempting to parse the title to justify what it is attempting to convey would be another example of situational ethics being applied to the situation. Granted I will acknowledge that many in the industry know full and well what the title actually conveys, but the reality is that we know what it is attempting to convey to the uninformed public.

As my last thought;
Robert, your response to Marc question is a bit incredulous. It was a fair and reasonable point to question. Granted the correct answer may or may not be favorable to someones position, yet it would add insight.

http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_inspection/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Marc M http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_inspection/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_inspection/associations-ethics-standards-licensing-legislation-home-inspectors-and-commercial-inspectors/47716-hot-pics-internachi-house-horrors-home-inspector-training-facility-post272075.html#post272075) ; So what percentage of those 850 have Zero construction / building code experience? "

And Robert your response was; " Why should you become privy to that information? "

You should not worry about the truth, though it may be a bit painful at times. :o

https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_ylt=A0LEVjoFzJlYVE0Ai.knnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTBy MjB0aG5zBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzYw--?p=Don%27t+Be+Sad+Be+Happy+Song&fr=yhs-mozilla-004&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-004#id=6&vid=ededd4344eae139df5e3307361b09c14&action=view

Sorry if my position appeared that way.
Thank you for pointing that out.
I will try harder to express myself in a neutral manner.
Much thanks Garry.

Great song:-)

Marc M

02-07-2017, 09:31 AM

Why should you or anyone become privy to that information? Robert

Huh? So you're suggesting that inspectors NEVER need to know building codes to do their jobs effectively? I respectfully disagree. So by way of example... if your NACHI newbie walks up to a water heater and fails to note that it is not earthquake strapped (CA) because it was not "taught in that class" and it is also a building code, they are not somehow responsible for missing it?
Is it because NACHI SOPs say they don't have to inspect with building code in mind, that it's somehow okay to miss stuff?
Agree or not but everything in a house is built to a CODE or STANDARD. So in essence you're inspecting with code in mind and probably don't even know it. Read these posts in this site... most every one deals with questions with require factual building code to back up the inspectors find or position.
Knowing building code and having had some degree of building experience is a must to do this job effectively, even if the states say its not. Home buyers would NEVER hire a guy who is green out of that school of props if you gave them a choice between some of the vets on this board and being a newbie. home buyers expect you do find EVERYTHING, even if you cannot.
And, if you don't know what an item is supposed to look like correct... you'll never know if its wrong. That school will never be able to replicate all the issues we all see from day to day. Some issues you only see once in 5 years. Others may only be once in 10 years.
The use of building code only backs your position as an expert.
I, unlike some of these green hands don't hide behind SOPs or the term "generalist". Home buyers do not expect a generalist. They can open windows and test plugs with a $2 harbor freight plug tester if thats all they will get.

ROBERT YOUNG

02-07-2017, 10:06 AM

ROBERT YOUNG

02-07-2017, 10:19 AM

.......you're screwed.

Difficult to understand what and who are referring to.

I am sure our provincial politicians know what they are doing.
I think the OACIQ have done a great job for home buying consumers.

As for my business, I use Joe Ferry claims intercept.
Consumers appear to enjoy my services.

As for I'm screwed.
Last time I was screwed you were not there. Just me and a lovely female partner, two consenting adults, and no voyeurs. But if that's you thing, you require consent.;)

Garry Sorrells

02-07-2017, 10:59 AM

Sorry if my position appeared that way.
Thank you for pointing that out.
I will try harder to express myself in a neutral manner.
Much thanks Garry.

Great song:-)

No apology needed. You stated what you thought/position. I replied that your position was wrong and why. I would like for you to change your position but I can not force you , you have to realize the errors. Yet with allowing you to have a wrong position and accepting that you may not change it I will still contest it.

Say what you mean and mean what you say and let it be the truth and not a partial truth.

Part if not all of this discussion revolves around the fact that you and many others feel that a ruse cloaked by the concept of "marketing" is acceptable. While many others will not accept a diminution of the truth for the sake of marketing and business success.

Not surprisingly to many will sell their sole/ethics for a dollar and then try to justify the sale. But worse are those that have nothing to sell and have no realization of that fact.

- - - Updated - - -

........
I am sure our provincial politicians know what they are doing.
...............;)

Gota love that faith that you are able to give out. God bless you.:)

Robert Sheppard

02-07-2017, 12:53 PM

Difficult to understand what and who are referring to.

I am sure our provincial politicians know what they are doing.
I think the OACIQ have done a great job for home buying consumers.

As for my business, I use Joe Ferry claims intercept.
Consumers appear to enjoy my services.

As for I'm screwed.
Last time I was screwed you were not there. Just me and a lovely female partner, two consenting adults, and no voyeurs. But if that's you thing, you require consent.;)

You're a strange man Mr. Young.

Jerry Peck

02-07-2017, 02:08 PM

Jerry I should be able to post here without Wands comments every time I post something.

Jim,

Just like you are an open opportunity here to post when you want and to reply to what you want, Raymond has that same opportunity.

If you would like to have this set up so restrict people form posting and or replying, then maybe we can add your name to that list of restricted people?

Once Brian starts down that path just to appease a person, there is a cliff which the board will have just gone over.

Now, there is an option which is available to you - you can choose to ignore Raymond replies to you ... the rest of us will still be able to read them, you just will not know what is going on ... but that is a choice you have.

I doubt I will post here as Wand likes to stick his nose in when it is not necessary. I have pointed this out to Brian.

No problem either way, whether or not you post here or whether or not Raymond posts here, or whether or not anyone in particular posts here (unless they have been banned by Brian for their excessive behavior here (there have been 3-4 people banned by Brian for such).

Your knowledge has been great over the years and I hope you keep helping Inspectors.

Thank you, and I hope we are all (myself included) able to learn from your posts as well, but that will mean putting your ego down and getting a tougher skin so you can let Raymond's comments you do not like slide off your back, just like the rest of us do for comments we may not like. It's an open board (with quite broad limits, which is good, but there are limits nonetheless).

Jim, this board works so well because we do not have all the infighting and anger of another board, nor do we have the very heavy handed moderator restricting the communication between parties.

Jerry Peck

02-07-2017, 04:23 PM

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Gosh ... I guess that should have put the kibosh on most of Lisa's posts right from the beginning, or does she truly think much of her information is NOT "knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate" ... hmmmm ... makes one wonder just how brainwashed she is ...

As well as those who repost that information which is shown to be incorrect.
:brick:

Garry Sorrells

02-07-2017, 07:14 PM

You would think so Jerry.

However I do believe Brian gives Lisa and Nick a longer leash than you would want due to N.G. advertising in the forum. Brian does give Lisa/Nick a jerk on that proverbial leash from time to time, which I know as a fact. But like a Juvenal they keep retesting their limits, especially since there does not seem to be any real consequences to their repetitive actions.

Garry Sorrells

02-08-2017, 07:29 AM

I may have figured out Lisa's new game plan. Hit and run.

Post an advertisement or promotion then make up to 3 more posts and then turn the aggravation over to a surrogate to continue on in her stead.

Not saying who that surrogate is but will let you figure out that on your own, a self evident truth. :censored:

Marc M

02-08-2017, 08:39 AM

Marc M

02-08-2017, 08:53 AM

Please excuse my past post Marc.
I never heard you speak like that before.

The assessment of a building is covered by the educator. It is not code compliance.

That said, any past or current expertise or training you bring to the table help provide a thorough service for your clients.

Article (2) in my PIA:
d. Unless otherwise indicated in writing separately, CLIENT understands that INSPECTOR will not test for compliance with applicable building codes, for the presence of potential dangers arising from asbestos, lead paint, formaldehyde, molds, soil contamination, and other environmental hazards such as radon or municipal building code violations.
No worries brother. I get heated when i think of uneducated robots being produced in some factory who will then go into this business and take food from all our mouths.
The publics perceptions is largely this... all home inspectors are the same, you do the same, you report on the same, the end result will thus be the same. Its hard to convince some prospects otherwise in the 60 seconds you have them on the phone... even more difficult after the other guy was $150 less than you are. And realtors don't help when they push the crappy inspectors.
This is such a difficult job as it is.. Thousands of things to look at and troubleshoot in a mere 3 hours (or whatever). knowing what I know after 20++ years, I don't see how these guys can offer the same quality as I, or you, or GS, JP or anyone else here who is a Veteran.

BEYOND THE SCOPE
For example, Cant test shower pans... why not? Are they not a component of the buildings system? Is it your fault if the thing leaks? You didn't build it, just smart enough to know how to make it leak and thus save your client several thousands of dollars.
These schools base everything around SOPs. So I see SOPs as a crutch for some inspectors. A shield against lawsuits and a reason NOT to have to perform their job effectively.