GFCI BREAKER RED TRIP LIGHT

[CHARLIE VAN FLEET]

GUYS

do you write up a gfci breaker that has a red trip light that does not operate when breaker tripped

cvf

[Bruce Ramsey]

How do you know the red light does not illuminate?

GFCI's in my area vary greatly. Some light green, red or yellow. Some light when working and some light when tripped. Some have no lights. Homes often have a variety of different gfci's with all of the above variations.

I don't care about the lights at all. On, off, or color. If the gfci trips under testing, moving on. If it doesn't trip under testing, report.

[CHARLIE VAN FLEET]

BRUCE

I was looking at the light and it did nothing--when tripped---we all have the multi colored trip lights-are they not there to alert the home owner--why have them if it doesn't matter

cvf

[Bruce Ramsey]

I feel the lights are a bonus, but not terribly important. To me the important part is does it trip when it needs to. And is there a GFCI where they are specified in the code. Blinky lights don't matter.

[jack davenport]

Seeing how you post GFCi BREAKER - I assume you are referring to the Square D QO type breaker with the red trip indicator. ( which is not a light )

I would say if the trip indicator is not operating correctly I would say to replace it. I know it seems petty but the device is not operating as designed.

[John Kogel]

Hello Charlie.
If the GFCI outlet is tripped properly, it doesn't work. So there is no hazard. The light is a non-issue in my book. Even so, tell them a new GFCI should be installed. A $20 item.

[Jerry Peck]

A $20 item.

Not counting installation - that's the GFCI itself.

Jack, I am sure that Charlie's GFCI breaker was intended to refer to a GFCI device (GFCI receptacle outlet).

[Greg Madden]

You may find it worth having a tester such as an Ideal Industries 61-164 SureTest Circuit Analyzer for GFCIs or the Ideal Industries 6-165 that also tests AFCIs, including testing for shared neutrals. Not inexpensive but they enable you to identify many AFCI and GFCI issues. Or at least team up with an electrician who has those tools.

[Jerry Peck]

Ideal Industries 6-165 that also tests AFCIs, including testing for shared neutrals. Not inexpensive but they enable you to identify many AFCI and GFCI issues.

Those, and other, AFCI "testers" are actually only "indicators" as each manufacturer of AFCI's has their own proprietary arc pattern their breakers look for.

The only true AFCI test is the test button on the AFCI breaker.

If one of the 'testers' does actually trip an AFCI breaker ... that is good - however - if it does not trip the AFCI breaker ... that does not mean anything (does not mean the breaker is bad).

[Greg Madden]

Jerry is right, as always, however that doesn't test the circuit wiring or for shared neutrals. No test or tester is perfect, but they are tools that can help you identify what is going on when there is a problem. And GFCIs and AFCIs can have vexing problems.

Some will argue to just let an electrician deal with it, but in my experience unless you can show that the problem exists and is repeatable, they will say "no problem found." Finding an electrician who carries the right test equipment is a challenge too.

Frequently here when a residence loses the neutral or a leg, or a connection is loose, Edison will say "no problem found" unless you are there and have the meter panel open and can show them the problem.

[Jerry Peck]

Frequently here when a residence loses the neutral or a leg, or a connection is loose, Edison will say "no problem found" unless you are there and have the meter panel open and can show them the problem.

That is when a method of measuring voltage is needed - measure the voltage at various receptacle outlets and take a photo of the voltages measured: if the voltages are not identical, then start measuring some more, if you find voltages which are close (within a volt or two or three of each other, that could be - could be - a line voltage variation on the system changing as you go from receptacle to receptacle to take measurements (the line voltage is the 240 volts across the service, the 120 volts, 123.2 volts, or whatever it is, is the grounded center point of the 240/246.4 examples, and each leg should read the same as the other leg).

However, if there is a neutral problem, you may find voltages which are all over the place as it depends on the load on each side of the no-longer-effectively-grounded grounded center point. I have seen voltages of around 60 volts with the other leg being around 180 volts (the two added together will equal the 240 volt line voltage reading unless the load on those circuits change).

If you read 110 volts at one receptacle and 130 volts at another location, there is likely a neutral problem someplace (could be in the service equipment, could be in the overhead service conductor/underground service lateral conductors - if you can show that there is a definite voltage different between legs, it is easier to convince the power company that "something" is "not right", it is then up to them to find the issue and fix it ... unless it is in the service equipment, in which case an electrical contractor will need to fix it.

But ... AFCIs are not for that purpose and do not find neutral issues, just issues on the circuit being protected.

[J Cornish]

[QUOTE=CHARLIE VAN FLEET;273257]GUYS

do you write up a gfci breaker that has a red trip light that does not operate when breaker tripped

No, that's not important, and most people won't know about it. The important thing; is the GFCI tripping or disconnecting?

[david shapiro]

[QUOTE=CHARLIE VAN FLEET;273257]GUYS

do you write up a gfci breaker that has a red trip light that does not operate when breaker tripped

No, that's not important, and most people won't know about it. The important thing; is the GFCI tripping or disconnecting?

Yes, tripping is key, but when anything's gone bad I no longer trust the device. I don't know why it's out of whack, or spec, but I can be pretty sure that it no longer meets the product standard. And that's enough for me. I can second-guess listing rules, but not when working on somebody else's behalf. Call me a fuddy-dud.