Radiant piping in basement ceilings, exposed

[Ernie Simpson]

I did this completely renovated farmhouse with a LARGE addition. The addition has an unfinished (but tightly sealed/spray foamed) basement below. The large room of the addition has radiant floor heating. What I could not understand was the heating (pex) piping in the basement ceiling that was just looped around the joist bays with no metal transfer plates (name?) or insulation below. My question is: can this really heat the floors of the living space above; or can it do it without running a ridiculous amount of fuel?

[Garry Sorrells]

Their idea may have been to act as heat for the basement as well as floor above.
Was there another heat source for the floor above?
Was there another heat source for the basement?

[ROBERT YOUNG]

Morning Ernie. Hope you are in good health and spirits today.
The tubes maybe missing reflector, or on the other hand, maybe not. Manufacture recommends installation methods if I am not mistaken.
Other than that is looks like a typical PEX (http://www.houseneeds.com/learning-center/pex-tubing-radiant-floor-heating/pex-tubing-under-floor-radiant-heating-install-diary) between the joist under the floor sheathing installation method.
33481

They can add reflective underneath after if they so desire, I think?:confused:

How did the manifold and other component look?

[Garry Sorrells]

https://mrpexsystems.com/radiant/ (https://mrpexsystems.com/radiant/)

https://mrpexsystems.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Radiant-custruction-methods-Suspended-Panels.pdf

"For Joist Heating, starting from the loop end, hang the tubing in the joist cavity using suitable clips or hangers. Leave about a 1–2” air gap between the tubing and the bottom of the subfloor. Work your way all way down to the beginning of the joist cavity. Arrange tubing, making sure everything looks professional and neat. Complete next loop cavity following steps above."

It is not necessarily that the installation is wrong. It is that we do not have enough information to understand what the design was intended to accomplish.

[Ernie Simpson]

Thanks all for the input. I did not see anything 'wrong' with this, it just seemed like there was a lot of area on the interior (a huge 3 story open family room, plus other areas to heat); large basement as well. All spray foamed however, so maybe it will work. Everything in this home, I should note, was done correctly - pretty amazing for an old (but renovated) farmhouse with additions in rural Maine. So I'm more inclined to say this was done correctly also. They also had a woodstove - which I advised my client he should anticipate using heavily.

[ROBERT YOUNG]

https://mrpexsystems.com/radiant/ (https://mrpexsystems.com/radiant/)

https://mrpexsystems.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Radiant-custruction-methods-Suspended-Panels.pdf

"For Joist Heating, starting from the loop end, hang the tubing in the joist cavity using suitable clips or hangers. Leave about a 1–2” air gap between the tubing and the bottom of the subfloor. Work your way all way down to the beginning of the joist cavity. Arrange tubing, making sure everything looks professional and neat. Complete next loop cavity following steps above."

It is not necessarily that the installation is wrong. It is that we do not have enough information to understand what the design was intended to accomplish.



Thanks Garry. :thumb:
Great explanation and links. Will surely save!
Best
Robert

[Garry Sorrells]

Thanks all for the input. I did not see anything 'wrong' with this, it just seemed like there was a lot of area on the interior (a huge 3 story open family room, plus other areas to heat); large basement as well. All spray foamed however, so maybe it will work. Everything in this home, I should note, was done correctly - pretty amazing for an old (but renovated) farmhouse with additions in rural Maine. So I'm more inclined to say this was done correctly also. They also had a woodstove - which I advised my client he should anticipate using heavily.

If that is all that they have going for them tell your client to stock up with 5 cords for the winter.

[John Kogel]

Yes, I would expect to see a double loop of pipe in each cavity, and some insulation or reflective material below that to direct the heat to the floor above. That setup will not heat the basement and do a poor job of heating the living room area.

[Garry Sorrells]

John,
Does look like there is a double loop in cavity. Would have been interesting to hear what they were attempting in this installation.

[Forrest Jones]

My assumption is that they were trying to provide radiant heat from the ceiling "down" to the basement area below. Radiant heat from above is the most efficient way to heat, and does not require convection or heating of the air in the room. Radiant heat does not rise, it radiates in 360 degrees. It would feel like the sun shining on you. My next question though is do they have Solar Hot Water collectors on site somewhere? Or maybe an outdoor boiler system? If the exterior was sealed with ccspf, then you could heat the room with a candle (slight exaggeration). There are 2 problems with this installation though: pex is an insulator and would not radiate wall, and the tubes are tucked way up in between the joists where they could not radiate more than about 45 degrees. Valiant effort on the home owners' part though.

- - - Updated - - -

My assumption is that they were trying to provide radiant heat from the ceiling "down" to the basement area below. Radiant heat from above is the most efficient way to heat, and does not require convection or heating of the air in the room. Radiant heat does not rise, it radiates in 360 degrees. It would feel like the sun shining on you. My next question though is do they have Solar Hot Water collectors on site somewhere? Or maybe an outdoor boiler system? If the exterior was sealed with ccspf, then you could heat the room with a candle (slight exaggeration). There are 2 problems with this installation though: pex is an insulator and would not radiate wall, and the tubes are tucked way up in between the joists where they could not radiate more than about 45 degrees. Valiant effort on the home owners' part though.

[E. B. AhhRobot]

What's the heat source and fuel type, also region or weather?
I love radiant heat, you can read more of the tech details here:
http://www.radiantec.com/installation-manuals/