No Idea about my heating system

[Chaznied]

Hi,

My home was built in 1920 and there is a very old monstrosity in the basement that looks like it's also from 1920 that heats my house. I have no idea how to perform basic maintenance on it and don't know where to go to begin my search. Any hints about manuals or the likes out there would be very appreciated

Thanks in advance,
Charles

[Brian Hannigan]

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[Jerry Peck]

My home was built in 1920 and there is a very old monstrosity in the basement that looks like it's also from 1920 ...

Looks newer than 1920, but old enough that replacement would be in your best interests.

[Gunnar Alquist]

I don't know if you will be able to get much help here with something that old. Like Jerry said, generally, we are going to advise replacement due to age.

[Trent Tarter]

Like others have said, it's an very old gas boiler that basically needs replaced. It you want it serviced you would hire an HVAC contractor.

Assuming the home does not have central AC, you may be better off to abandon the radiant system and install new a forced air split system.

[Garry Sorrells]

Maintenance is pretty simple.
Drain pressure tank.
Bleed radiators/system.
Oil pump motor.
Clean burners.
Check pressure gauge and temp gauge.
Check/clear TPR .

Boilers can last forever, well almost. You will replace items but the cost to maintain is less than replacement.

[Jerry Peck]

... the cost to maintain is less than replacement.

But, when you include the cost to operate an old fuel hog ... is the cost of maintaining one less than replacement with a newer more fuel efficient one?

[Jim Luttrall]

I've got to think fuel costs in PA have to be astronomic on that old gas hog.

[ROBERT YOUNG]

Hi,

My home was built in 1920 and there is a very old monstrosity in the basement that looks like it's also from 1920 that heats my house. I have no idea how to perform basic maintenance on it and don't know where to go to begin my search. Any hints about manuals or the likes out there would be very appreciated

Thanks in advance,
Charles

Charles, hope to find you well and in good spirits today.
I understand why men more than women enjoy 'fixen & tinkeren' stuff around the house.;)
But I must say Charles, that is an old steam boiler. 5 will get you 10 there is a likelihood the exposed pipes in the utility room are asbestos wrapped, but I could be mistaken.

HVAC Boiler Installers do this to protect homeowners and HVAC technicians from injury.:D
So by you asking "No Idea about my heating system" leads me to believe, rightly or wrongly, you are not a HVAC trades person, nor have prior knowledge or experience about steam boilers, so an accident is just waiting for someone like yourself to come knock on the door. That is the last thing you want happenen buddy.:(

Being a steam boiler, I would highly recommend hiring a licensed boiler contractor to 'evaluate' the unit, at the very least, and here's why. From what I have been able to dig up 'in the last few minutes,' American Standard sold their boiler line to Burnham in 1971. In other words, your steam boiler is obsolete vintage and ><50 years old.

I know you want to get involved, as well as save money for the misses and grandkids while doing so. Please Charles, if you love the misses and those precious grandchildren, have a HVAC technician give you some options please.

Garry knows his way about HVAC and boilers. In my opinion though, I concur with Jerry and Gunner. You will like be far better off replacing the steam boiler with a modern energy efficient unit. You will save money and the unit will pay itself off quickly.

Keep well and keep us posted please.
Best regards.
Robert.

[Garry Sorrells]

But, when you include the cost to operate an old fuel hog ... is the cost of maintaining one less than replacement with a newer more fuel efficient one?

Could be yes and could be no.
For an old boiler.
The boiler if cast iron and depending on manufacture can last 100 years.
The electrical components on older units are stupidly simple and relatively inexpensive.
The most frequent issue is the thermocouple on a standing piolet system
If hydronic (circulating hot water) you have circulatory pump to deal with that lasts 30 years or more and are not that expensive to replace.

One of the first items to change on gas systems was the pilot-less flame ignition which upped the efficiency but added to maintenance costs.
New high efficiency boilers run at 82% and can go up to 90% efficiency. The process to get them up to that efficiency requires a fair amount of electronics and spiffy design. Which causes for high replacement parts cost. Also more chances of failure resulting in technical service that most people just do not have the knowledge to maintain and trouble shoot.

With boiler replacement at $7K to $10k and giving it a 20 year replacement cycle along high maintenance costs you have to crunch the numbers for true cost comparisons. Don't forget to include any maintenance program that you may be purchasing.

Lets say you have a 10 year break even point on replacement, which I consider on the low side, you then have to figure how long you will be in that house to enjoy the true cost savings if you ever will.

[Gunnar Alquist]

But, when you include the cost to operate an old fuel hog ... is the cost of maintaining one less than replacement with a newer more fuel efficient one?


Could be yes and could be no.
For an old boiler.
The boiler if cast iron and depending on manufacture can last 100 years.
The electrical components on older units are stupidly simple and relatively inexpensive.
The most frequent issue is the thermocouple on a standing piolet system
If hydronic (circulating hot water) you have circulatory pump to deal with that lasts 30 years or more and are not that expensive to replace.

One of the first items to change on gas systems was the pilot-less flame ignition which upped the efficiency but added to maintenance costs.
New high efficiency boilers run at 82% and can go up to 90% efficiency. The process to get them up to that efficiency requires a fair amount of electronics and spiffy design. Which causes for high replacement parts cost. Also more chances of failure resulting in technical service that most people just do not have the knowledge to maintain and trouble shoot.

With boiler replacement at $7K to $10k and giving it a 20 year replacement cycle along high maintenance costs you have to crunch the numbers for true cost comparisons. Don't forget to include any maintenance program that you may be purchasing.

Lets say you have a 10 year break even point on replacement, which I consider on the low side, you then have to figure how long you will be in that house to enjoy the true cost savings if you ever will.

This is more of a tangent to Garry's comment.

I hear a lot today regarding efficiency and carbon footprint. I understand the positive effects of going with more energy efficient manufactured products, but I wonder what the immediate and trade-off effect is.

What I mean is:

As Garry already indicated, operating an inefficient component/product (appliance, car, home, whatever) has an environmental impact as well as a financial one. However, manufacturing, shipping, installing and maintaining a new product also has an impact. I often wonder where the environmental trade-off is. How many hours/days/weeks/months of operating my old, inefficient furnace would be offset by the manufacture, etc. of a new efficient furnace?

This would be added to the monetary break-even point that Garry mentioned. An old car (pre-electronics, fuel injection, etc.) is less efficient and would cost more in gas, but keeping one running would be less costly (as long as parts are readily available) than maintaining a newer one as it ages (replacement of a catalytic converter or batteries in a Prius is pretty costly, for example).

Like I said, thread drift.

[Jerry Peck]

An old car (pre-electronics, fuel injection, etc.) is less efficient and would cost more in gas, but keeping one running would be less costly (as long as parts are readily available) than maintaining a newer one as it ages (replacement of a catalytic converter or batteries in a Prius is pretty costly, for example).

Like I said, thread drift.

Sooo ... are you saying my 1983 Jaguar XJS V12 is ... or is not ... 'efficient'? :D

[Garry Sorrells]

Sooo ... are you saying my 1983 Jaguar XJS V12 is ... or is not ... 'efficient'? :D

Like a boat, if you have to ask if it is efficient you can not afford it.

Like owning a 1967 XKE, if you question parts and maintenance, you can not afford it

[ROBERT YOUNG]

Like a boat, if you have to ask if it is efficient you can not afford it.

Like owning a 1967 XKE, if you question parts and maintenance, you can not afford it

Lol. I like it.

[Jerry Peck]

Like owning a 1967 XKE, if you question parts and maintenance, you can not afford it

I had one, a 1967 Jaguar E-Type 2+2 (4.2 liter straight six, 3 SU carbs) - the last year before pollution stuff started to get put onto cars. I made about a 130 mile drive down I-95 in 55 minutes once (yes, through traffic, I was basically going about twice as fast as the other cars) when I owned that car.

I don't own a boat - I've been told that they are a hole in the water you throw money into.

My XJS is not that way, it doesn't take much to keep running good (about 16 mpg around town, which is not bad for a 1983 car which was not designed to slow poke to the grocery store and back). I used to spend $1,000-1,500 per year on it for maintenance, tops. How many cars can you buy where the payments are only $1,000-1,500 per year?

$1,000 / 12 = $83.33 per month

$1,500 / 12 = $125 per month

That was when I drove it a lot to work and back (400 miles per week for about a year one time). Now it doesn't even cost that much - in February of this year the ignition amplifier died, $500+/- to fix it, has not cost anything since.

Would I want to take it on a trip to NC and back? No. But I wouldn't want to take an $83 month car on that trip either. :p
:focus:

[ROBERT YOUNG]

I don't own a boat - I've been told that they are a hole in the water you throw money into.


Yes they can be. I have refit by aluminum 1995 PrinceCraft to the tune of $20,000 Canadian. Stem to stern. Everything replaced including the buoyancy foam and air bladers under the deck.
It is essentially original except for a seat modification. Marine grade lanoluim, not carpet on marine grade plywood.
I removed the storage box under the driver's seat and mounted a Princecraft seat on a pedestal.
New power head for a Pro 50 Yamaha 2 stroke.

Cars can be an expense to renovate as well. I swapped many an engine, transmission, replace everything under the frame of my 1993 Dodge 1500 Ram work truck. Suspension, complete new steering, Brakes, calipers, discs, brake lines. Everything was 3/4 ton updated from a 1/2 ton. $8,000.00