Foundation problems

[Khanh Nguyen]

I am going to buy a house built in 2004. I love the location it is. The interior looks clean and beautiful. However, exterior has some defects. The foundation slab has a hair line crack, and there is also crack on brick veneer. But the brick veneer crack is from different location with the hair line crack on foundation. Should I worry about the foundation problem with this house? Thanks a lot .http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_inspection/attachment.php?attachmentid=34273&stc=1http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_inspection/attachment.php?attachmentid=34274&stc=1

[Khanh Nguyen]

For the hairline crack picture, my inspector said" the foundation has visible crackings. I recommend having a foundation company for further evaluate"

For the brick veneer crack, he said"The Brick siding exterior in areas has settlement cracks. Further deterioration can occur if notcorrected. A qualified contractor should inspect and repair as needed."

[Jerry Peck]

Those two comments sound like canned inspector speak which came with the reports.

Checklist type report where that was checked off, or semi-narrative report where the inspector just selects the text which gets plopped into the report.

It is common in many useless reports as the inspector sees something, then passes it off to a contractor for "further evaluation" without providing useful information to the client - does the report contain many more "further evaluation" recommendations? Just curious.

[Lon Henderson]

If those cracks are the only cracking going on, then I don't see a concern. Large slabs of concrete will crack every time. What the crack does is what we look at. That foundation crack is minimal. Brick has little elasticity and brick/mortar joints can easily crack under minimal stresses. Thermal expansion/contraction can cause cracks like the one in the brick. And then, stresses in walls go to windows and doorways like paper tears at perforations. What is unusual about the brick crack is the way it broke through the edge of the brick, which might indicate that the mortar was mixed too strong. But as I said in the first sentence, if this is all the cracking that you see, I don't think you have a structural concern. Cosmetic repairs are recommended at the brick crack.

As a side note, I agree with Jerry's frustration that too many HIs defer to "further evaluation by appropriate experts" on everything they see. This is not good for our profession or image. Rookie HIs may have to do that more, but as you gain experience, you should be able to spot a bad apple from the good ones and call it out as such. Rather than automatically defer evaluation, tell your client that you're going to run your concern by an expert buddy for the report; and post your photos and question here. Someone will usually give you a quick response and you can add a more informed comment into your report.

[Khanh Nguyen]

Yes, there is no inspector's personal judgement or conclusion. Further evaluations appear everywhere from plumbing, electricity to appliances.:mad:.

Back to the foundation, I really need to know if there is foundation problem which can stop me from buying the house. Thanks.

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If those cracks are the only cracking going on, then I don't see a concern. Large slabs of concrete will crack every time. What the crack does is what we look at. That foundation crack is minimal. Brick has little elasticity and brick/mortar joints can easily crack under minimal stresses. Thermal expansion/contraction can cause cracks like the one in the brick. And then, stresses in walls go to windows and doorways like paper tears at perforations. What is unusual about the brick crack is the way it broke through the edge of the brick, which might indicate that the mortar was mixed too strong. But as I said in the first sentence, if this is all the cracking that you see, I don't think you have a structural concern. Cosmetic repairs are recommended at the brick crack.

As a side note, I agree with Jerry's frustration that too many HIs defer to "further evaluation by appropriate experts" on everything they see. This is not good for our profession or image. Rookie HIs may have to do that more, but as you gain experience, you should be able to spot a bad apple from the good ones and call it out as such. Rather than automatically defer evaluation, tell your client that you're going to run your concern by an expert buddy for the report; and post your photos and question here. Someone will usually give you a quick response and you can add a more informed comment into your report.


Thanks million. That's the only crack in the foundation. However, there are some hairline cracks on patio, garage and driveway concrete. I thinks such cracks are not serious too, right?

[Gunnar Alquist]

Not a lot of information to go on Khanh. Two pics is not really enough to make any kind of useful evaluation to give you direction.

Based SOLELY on the two pictures you provided (inspector-speak for "There is not enough information and I don't want to hang my rear end out too far") and your vague location (TX), this is my observation:

1) Concrete slab cracks. If I were inspecting, I would not have been overly concerned about a little crack in the slab, unless I found other conditions nearby that gave me more information that something was going on (i.e. cracks in walls/ceilings, sloped interior floor, etc).

2) Brick cracks. These, I am a little more concerned about because they might indicate some movement of the slab. Some parts of Texas (you don't say what part you are in and it is a large state) do have expansive soils, which can cause significant problems with foundations. I have been told that some homes actually have irrigation systems around the perimeter of the foundation to help keep the soil stable. I don't know what kind of soils you have there, which would be a help to any inspector. Or, if this is brick veneer, the masonry damage may have been caused by a wood header that twisted and pushed the brick.

But again, with just two images to go with, I cannot say for sure. One option would be to get a different inspector out there to take a look. There are a number of folks on this board that are quite excellent and might be able to give you the information that you need. I realize that this means an extra expense, but the amount is small compared to the cost of a house or foundation repairs.

[Jerry Peck]

Yes, there is no inspector's personal judgement or conclusion. Further evaluations appear everywhere from plumbing, electricity to appliances.:mad:.

Soooo ... it sounds like you are now wondering 'Just what did I pay my inspector to do? He didn't tell me much about anything and recommended I have everything further evaluated ... you probably thought that was what he was doing.

[Jack Feldmann]

Soooo ... it sounds like you are now wondering 'Just what did I pay my inspector to do? He didn't tell me much about anything and recommended I have everything further evaluated ... you probably thought that was what he was doing.

To be fair the inspector was doing his job, and following the SOP. He found an issue, and suggested a course of action. His suggestion was to have someone look at it that has expertise in that field. He called for further evaluation. The inspector saw an issue, but does not know the exact cause of the issue. Calling for further evaluation will bring in someone that can do further evaluation and try to determine what the cause is, and once the cause is determined, create a plan of action for correction.

Many things we find have a very clear repair, such as a leaking pipe, or a loose light fixture. However, a lot of the stuff we see does not have such a clear answer, such as foundation cracks or cracks in brick veneer.

[Jerry Peck]

Yes, there is no inspector's personal judgement or conclusion. Further evaluations appear everywhere from plumbing, electricity to appliances.:mad:


To be fair the inspector was doing his job, and following the SOP.

Jack,

The OP confirmed my assessment.

If only you were right.

[Jack Feldmann]

For the hairline crack picture, my inspector said" the foundation has visible crackings. I recommend having a foundation company for further evaluate"

For the brick veneer crack, he said"The Brick siding exterior in areas has settlement cracks. Further deterioration can occur if notcorrected. A qualified contractor should inspect and repair as needed."

Well, he did identify an issue, and he recommended further evaluation. He didn't miss the cracks. I'm not saying he did a stellar job, but he did tell his client there was an issue and it needed further evaluation. He actually called for repairs on the brick veneer.

While you are so quick to throw this guy under the bus, he did follow the SOP. Maybe you should review the SOP?

[Jerry Peck]

Jack,

What do you find good with:


Further evaluations appear everywhere from plumbing, electricity to appliances.:mad:

[Gary Burnett]

Khanh,
Normally on a foundation inspection the inspector will indicate any other red flags that show settlement. I'm not sure where you are in Texas but North Texas area has expansive soil and if these are the only two things on a 15 year old home, I wouldn't be concerned. The inspector should have looked at the exterior corner frieze boards to see if there is any separation, gaps around windows, doors that do not close and latch or swing open and closed. Interior sheetrock cracks are also indications of settlement.
I have seen many homes with that little hairline crack in one area. I always look to see if there is a matching one on the other side which might indicate a pivot point for differential movement. The small mortar crack over the garage lintel is pretty common because the steel lintel expands differently than the brick or mortar. The expansion or contraction over time will cause the mortar to crack or fall out of the joint.

Again, most foundation companies will send out someone to do elevations and look at the slab at little or no charge. Your realtor may know a company to call to check things out for you.

I agree with Jerry on all the referrals to other professionals. After all, he is supposed to be a professional Inspector.

Jack,
Here are the general things he should have also reported along with the crack.

But what should an inspector do when there are some present and visible indications of adverse performance in a foundation that otherwise seems to be supporting the load as intended?

The standards of practice do list a number of things that should be considered when rendering an opinion of performance: Section 535.228 (a)(1)(C) states that ?the inspector shall generally report present and visible indications used to render the opinion of adverse performance, such as: (i) binding, out-of-square, non-latching doors; (ii) framing or frieze board separations; (iii) sloping floors; (iv) window, wall, floor, or ceiling racks or separations; and (v) rotating, buckling, cracking, or deflecting masonry cladding.?

Whether the inspector ultimately determines that the foundation is performing, not performing, or that the inspector is unable to make a determination; in rendering his or her opinion, the inspector should always report any of the issues described in Section 535.228 (a)(1)(C), if they are present and visible. The client needs to be made aware that the inspector has identified possible indications of adverse performance. This information allows the client to make an educated decision whether to accept or reject the home in its present condition or whether to obtain a further evaluation.

[Phil brody]

Not a lot of information to go on Khanh. Two pics is not really enough to make any kind of useful evaluation to give you direction.

Based SOLELY on the two pictures you provided (inspector-speak for "There is not enough information and I don't want to hang my rear end out too far") and your vague location (TX), this is my observation:

1) Concrete slab cracks. If I were inspecting, I would not have been overly concerned about a little crack in the slab, unless I found other conditions nearby that gave me more information that something was going on (i.e. cracks in walls/ceilings, sloped interior floor, etc).

2) Brick cracks. These, I am a little more concerned about because they might indicate some movement of the slab. Some parts of Texas (you don't say what part you are in and it is a large state) do have expansive soils, which can cause significant problems with foundations. I have been told that some homes actually have irrigation systems around the perimeter of the foundation to help keep the soil stable. I don't know what kind of soils you have there, which would be a help to any inspector. Or, if this is brick veneer, the masonry damage may have been caused by a wood header that twisted and pushed the brick.

But again, with just two images to go with, I cannot say for sure. One option would be to get a different inspector out there to take a look. There are a number of folks on this board that are quite excellent and might be able to give you the information that you need. I realize that this means an extra expense, but the amount is small compared to the cost of a house or foundation repairs.
i concur with this assessment. You can either get a structural engineer out there for the brick crack or negotiate 5k for remediation.

[Ken Amelin]

Jack,

What do you find good with:

Jerry, I have to agree with Jack on this one. I think you're being too hard on the inspector. What I find good with this inspector is that they alerted the buyer to many problems that require repair or further evaluation. It's better finding these out prior to purchase. Besides, what is really the difference between repair or further evaluation. Either way they need to have a licensed person in the trade come over and review the problem and fix it.

Most home inspectors don't have licenses in Plumbing, electrical, or appliance repair. What do you tell a buyer when the furnace or dishwasher isn't working? Do you tell them to have the water pump replaced or replace a relay in the control panel? NO - we don't. That is not a home inspectors job or expertise. We can only provide information that we learned from training at "home inspector school" or from many years experience. Not all inspectors have many years of experience in other trades.

So let's be positive about this. What advice would you give a new home inspector if they were unsure of the problem? What wording would you recommend they use?

[Phil brody]

Jack,

What do you find good with:
Think there?s a jumping of the gun here.
Firstly, the OP only confined itself to the potential structural issues which he was looking for an unpaid opinion.
I think berating the inspector without seeing the complete report and specific observations would be premature.
On the surface it does appear to be a cya, and one could draw the conclusion that the inspector didn?t provide value for which he was paid.

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[Ray Thornburg]

what were your home inspector' comments
It appears that the brick is tight to the garage door jamb. Really too tight. Good practice would be to leave a slight gap and fill it with an elastomeric sealant to allow for expansion and contraction of the brick against the door or window jamb. In this case the brick cracked at a weak place. I see this all the time because people have a tendency to try to cram a new door into an old brick opening.....later the crack will develop...because it is too tight, usually above the header like in the picture because there are not many bricks above it to hold it together.

[Don Horn]

After 14 years, the small crack in the foundation is not a concern if, there is no other evidence above this area.
The cracking over the garage is concerning. I predict a problem with the lintel system over the opening.