Hot breaker in a panel

[Robert Huffman]

Experimenting with my new infrared camera and took a look at a power panel. The hot water breaker was up to 93 degrees while everything else was around 78 degrees. My question is how hot must a breaker be before you call it out as too hot?

[david shapiro]

First: I don't know.
Second, rule ff thumb: if it's "Ouch!" hot, I don't trust it, unless it's inherently lossy, like a light, heater, perhaps transformer.
Third, if the CB is marked 60/75 deg C, it's supposed to handle that temperature, which is wa-ay higher than you measured. Tested at 100% rated load, the parts you can touch aren't supposed to exceed 60 deg C after it achieves equilibrium.
Fourth, to confuse matters, tests in the standard can be destructive.
And fifth, I love new toys, but if an ammeter says it's handling the load the heater says it should supply, and the CB doesn't give you other indications of something being wrong, a' wouldna be worrit now.

[Dom D'Agostino]

The hot water breaker was up to 93 degrees ...

That's not even "room" or ambient temperature around these parts, especially in a garage or external panelboard.

[david shapiro]

Right you are, Dom. Of course, the ish here most likely is "is there abnormal temperature rise?" rather than "Is this breaker about to self-destruct?"

[BARRY ADAIR]

Experimenting with my new infrared camera and took a look at a power panel. The hot water breaker was up to 93 degrees while everything else was around 78 degrees. My question is how hot must a breaker be before you call it out as too hot?

RH

waving the magic wand requires more training & data than you furnished for any factual temperature evaluations

see attached for the basics for performing electrical ir evaluation

CPSC announced a Schneider Electric recall recently...
https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2022/Schneider-ElectricTM-Recalls-1-4-Million-Electrical-Panels-Due-to-Thermal-Burn-and-Fire-Hazards?fbclid=IwAR2cMhoOYju6DNpd73J6IKOffv_6VOzb0 e0b4lr40ICuRYA6PGHQneGwXsA

[david shapiro]

That is a nice little document from Schneider/Sq D, Barry. Even so, I'm sure it's no substitute for a good class. Now I don't know that the greatly revamped standard-in-the-making that 70B has become offers a great deal more to help with IR surveys.

I do like its point about documenting other evidence of deterioration. I hope they didn't t need to add, "But don't let your nose touch an energized component."

[BARRY ADAIR]

That is a nice little document from Schneider/Sq D, Barry. Even so, I'm sure it's no substitute for a good class. Now I don't know that the greatly revamped standard-in-the-making that 70B has become offers a great deal more to help with IR surveys.

I do like its point about documenting other evidence of deterioration. I hope they didn't t need to add,
"But don't let your nose touch an energized component."

DS
never imagined you as being 1 for nose envy ;~}
my point was ir is not point-shoot & done, i know you get this

much more is required for a factual electrical analysis w/ir & most inspector assoc. do not stress this enough, thus the spate of ineffectual wand wavers

[david shapiro]

Realistically, friends, it seems that IR analysis of electrical equipment focuses on ongoing maintenance programs. 70B-that-is-to-be does not even include SFRs, though the CMP agreed to take proposals and comments to add them as input for the next edition.

This said, years ago, Dr. Bruce Moore, then with Met Labs, came in to provide a second opinion on a consult. He brought a load bank and IR camera, neither of which I had used. While he largely seconded my findings, he added a big bang to the "open it up!" by finding a hot, buried air splice with the camera.

The point: sometimes the magic (oh, hell, magick) wand will give mighty useful information without the proper study program.

BTW, I don't know whether anyone else here has seen this use, but a PA recently used a small IR imager to find the veins in my forearm, for sticking purposes.