Flex Gas Connector

[Michael Vasquez]

I am not sure if it is acceptable to have two gas flex connectors together to make one long one at a gas range. The length of the two does not exceed 6ft.

Thank You

[Billy Stephens]

---- is acceptable to have two gas flex connectors together ---

Not according to The Manufactures Installation Instructions. ;)

[Aaron Miller]

Michael:

See the highlightes dstatement on page 2 of this document:

http://www.aaronsinspections.com/Flexible%20Connector.pdf

Aaron:)

[Brandon Whitmore]

Regarding the statement in that document "never re-use a gas connector".
Is that true for all or most manufacturer's installation instructions/ requirements?

[Aaron Miller]

Brandon:

Yes. The document I provided is from a subsidiary of Watts Regulator. No small fish in the pond. All of the other flex connector manufacturers require the same. No re-use of connectors.

Aaron;)

[Brandon Whitmore]

Thanks Aaron.

[Michael Vasquez]

Aaron,

I appreciate you attaching the document.

Thanks

[Martin Potokar]

Michael,

If you are inspecting homes, you would be well advised to obtain a copy of and review the National Fuel Gas Code Handbook. BTW, it is not considered acceptable practice to use/connect two flex gas hose connectors together, nor are you allowed to pass a flex gas hose connector through floors, walls or ceilings. Moreover, most municipalities do not allow use of flex gas hose connectors to connect gas fired utilization equipment such as water heaters and furnaces. While you may run across this all too often, it is ordinarily not allowed and often eliminates the drip leg/gas sediment trap.

Martin Potokar
Building Inspector/Consultant

;)

[Aaron Miller]

Moreover, most municipalities do not allow use of flex gas hose connectors to connect gas fired utilization equipment such as water heaters and furnaces.


Martin:

All municipalities in North Texas allow felxible appliance connectors and none require drip legs or sediment traps.

Aaron;)

[Martin Potokar]

Should have qualified my previous post regarding gas drip leg/sediment traps. This is in Illinois. Boy, Texas must have some exceptionally clean natural gas!
;)

[Aaron Miller]

Should have qualified my previous post regarding gas drip leg/sediment traps. This is in Illinois. Boy, Texas must have some exceptionally clean natural gas!
;)

Martin:

Nah, they just have really mobbed-up builders and building officials here. And, did I mention, lot's of bullshit?

Aaron;)

[Aaron Miller]

lot's of bullshit?


Mmmmmm. What the hell does that mean anyhow?

Aaron:confused:

[Bob Harper]

Flex connectors cannot be spliced per their listing. They also cannot be reused per their listing. All flex connectors except dryers and ranges are limited to 3ft; hose two appliances are allowed 6ft.

Get a copy of the IRC Commentary instead of the NFGC unless you know NFPA 54 is still being used in your area. Most of the country is now under the IRC and thus the IFGC.

Sediment traps are required by code everywhere, regardless whether or not your inspectors call for them.

I don't know of any jurisdictions that don't allow flex connectors if properly installed.

Bob

[Aaron Miller]

Sediment traps are required by code everywhere, regardless whether or not your inspectors call for them.



Bob:

There are no, I repeat no AHJs in the 10,000 square mile area that I cover that require either sediment traps or drip legs, though I agree that they are required. The Texas State Board of Plumbing Examiners also disagrees with the IRC and will not require them if asked.

Aaron:D

[Randy Clayton]

Arron, I don't know about you yanks in north tx; but down here in the south Tx they require drip legs and such. Though the same as you described flex lines can be run as long as it is continuess.

[Randy Clayton]

Billie at the bottom of your posts reads "if it doesnt chouk artie it wont choke me"
what does that mean????

[Billy Stephens]

Billie at the bottom of your posts reads "if it doesnt chouk artie it wont choke me"
what does that mean????

Little Rascals ( Our Gang ) sketch Porky & Buck Wheat peeling an artichoke ( like it was an orange looking for the eatable part & asks what is it? "Artichoke.") one says to the other he's not going to try it because" It might have choked Arthie but it's not going to choke him."

[david ju]

use tubing gas line or make a longer connector

[Aaron Miller]

Arron, I don't know about you yanks in north tx; but down here in the south Tx they require drip legs and such. Though the same as you described flex lines can be run as long as it is continuess.

Randy:

A good number of the sleazers who build up here where I am are from down there where you are. As for the low-life municipal inspectors we have, they probably figure all of the crap in the gas will run downhill to y'all down there in Clutch City and the surrounding wastelands.

It's a gravity thing,

Aaron:D

[Joe Klampfer]

.... " It might have choked Arthie but it's not going to choke him."

all this time I thought you were referring to Artie Lang of the Howard Stern show :)

[Peter Walker]

Drip legs/Sediment traps are required by the equipment manufacturers. There is a potential for swarf and other forms of crap getting in the gas line etc. Look in any installation manual in the gas piping section. Extra cost is about $10.

Peter Walker.

[David Banks]

all this time I thought you were referring to Artie Lang of the Howard Stern show :)

Joe. You look a little like Artie Lang.

[Joe Klampfer]

Joe. You look a little like Artie Lang.

haha... maybe he'd take me in as a long lost brother and we could go party.

[Randy Clayton]

Billie haha I think I remember that one why cant they make such good entertainment anymore.And the other guy was right Joe does look like Lange!!!!

[Randy Clayton]

Arron, yea those slez balls needed to come up thier and teach you boys a thing or to. I think some of your muni.. inspectors cousins are embreaded here too..

[Richard Rushing]

Randy,

As Aaron stated-- not required in our neck(ed) of the woods... We might see'em about 2% of the time in new construction.

Rich

[Aaron Miller]

Randy,

As Aaron stated-- not required in our neck(ed) of the woods... We might see'em about 2% of the time in new construction.

Rich

Richard:

And I think that 2% are mistakes, or the plumbers were just getting rid of the extra parts in their tool boxes.

Aaron

[Martin Potokar]

I stand corrected. My previous post should have read IFGC (International Fuel Gas Code) written by the ICC (International Code Council) not The National Fuel Gas Code formerly by NFPA. The IFGC is presently what's being used by most municipalities. Sorry 'bout that.

Also, so there's no misinterpretation, drips and sediment traps are not the same in that they serve different purposes (refer to IFGC 408). Since most utility companies don't have a problem with wet gas, the drip isn't required but the sediment trap is! If in doubt, check with your utility company.
;)

[Aaron Miller]

If in doubt, check with your utility company.

Martin:

I've checked. Apparently here the utility companies believe that nothing can possibly foul their gas no matter where it is . . . so they do not require sediment traps.

Aaron

[Bob Harper]

Aaron, the point is, the CODES require sediment traps, therefore you MUST install them whether your AHJs, gas utility or Mickey Mouse requires them or not. A law is a law. Also, mfr.s will require them.

Sediment traps are not just there for "wet gas' but all sorts of trash and debris. There have been plenty of lawsuits where gas valves failed, caused fires and explosions because of crap that got caught in the valve seat.

There are code reasons, legal reasons and practical reasons. If you fail to point out a sediment trap is missing and that is found to be the proximate cause of an incident, your butt will most certainly be in the sling regardless of what any SOP, AHJ, or utility says. Worse, people can get hurt. Think about that.
Bob

[Michael Greenwalt]

Bob is right on track! A failure to report a missing sediment trap could lead to some serious liability, not to mention injury or death to a client, family member or guest. They are their for a reason and it is our duty to give our clients the information. They are then free to make a decision for themselves.

Bob, glad to see you are going to be in Philly for the Sept training. I have a list of questions to bring, hope your ready :). I think everyone available to attend should come to hear what you have to say. Thanks for making the event.

Michael

[Brandon Chew]

Plaintiff's Exhibit A: Manufacturer's installation instructions

Plaintiff's Exhibit B: Tee, nipple, cap, and receipt from Big Orange Box for $5.62 :eek:

[Randy Clayton]

I agree sorry to hear from my fellow TEXAS brothers that they only see it 2% of the time only makes me wunder about this and other things the other 98% oof the time?????:rolleyes:

[Vern Heiler]

I did a reinspect yesterday on furnace with FSST through an access hole in the cabinet to the regulator valve. I wrote it up, as always, needing short piece of black pipe to extend connection to the exterior of the cabinet.
Current local code requires and all new construction is installed in this manner. The seller tells me that the local gas co. and HVAC contractor gave the installation a clean bill of health, as it was installed proir to code requirement. The house was built in 1988. I was not aware of anytime frame that installation through the panel was ok.
I read the Dormont installation instructions and only found reference to not allowing it to come in contact with metal etc.

I gave the seller information needed to make his own decision regarding need for safety, and I am not going to battle with the gas co. or the HVAC contractor. I would like to know if there is a code compliance date for future reference. Any one know? JP? JM?

[Jerry Peck]

From the Dormont Flexible Gas Connector installation instructions, section 7 on page 5 of 7 "7. Attach fitting to appliance inlet.", which, to me, says it is okay to enter the appliance cabinet if the appliance inlet is within the cabinet ... so long as you isolate the flexible gas connector from the cabinet, i.e., with a rubber donut bushing or something like it.

Are you sure that current local code requires a rigid pipe extending out through the cabinet side? The most (all?)codes say something to the effect of 'must be installed in accordance with manufacturer's installation instructions *and* this code', not 'or'.

[Vern Heiler]

I have not read it in the code myself, but have been told. Also gas co. stated "it was not required back when" I'll do some extended research and let you know what I find.

[Rick Maday]

Aaron, the point is, the CODES require sediment traps, therefore you MUST install them whether your AHJs, gas utility or Mickey Mouse requires them or not. A law is a law. Also, mfr.s will require them.


Bob,

A law is a law
A code is a code
A code IS NOT a law

Codes ("minimum acceptable" practices - not "best" practices) are adopted by individual AHJs. That still does not make them law. AHJs enforce the codes (denial of CO) - cops enforce the law (take you to jail).

A different debate is weather some builders should report to the later, but I digress...;)

[Vern Heiler]

Jerry,


Are you sure that current local code requires a rigid pipe extending out through the cabinet side?

Not sure yet. Surprised to find that the CEO's (mechanical & electrical) have told me they will resurch it and let me know. Mecklenburg Co. NC has not adapted code as far as grounding but is enforcing mfg. instructions, which differ from mfg. to mfg. Installer has to leave mfg. instructions at the site for CEO.

All I have talked to agree that rigid pipe is a good practice. I can't think of a worse place to have a gas leak due to friction or arcing than at the furnace cabinet.

Reading the Thermo Pride CHB1-50 installation manual, I found this statement:
These furnaces are set-up to be gas piped through either the left or right side by using a street elbow and a straight pipe. For the purposes of service, it is recommended that the gas union be located inside the furnace, when possible. I don't know how many mfg. installation instructions say something similar?

I'll let you know if I find any more on the subject.

[Jim Luttrall]

Bob,

A law is a law
A code is a code
A code IS NOT a law

Codes ("minimum acceptable" practices - not "best" practices) are adopted by individual AHJs. That still does not make them law. AHJs enforce the codes (denial of CO) - cops enforce the law (take you to jail).



Rick, I am not a lawyer or AHJ (Authority Having Jurisdiction), but it is my understanding that the codes become law when they are adopted into the local municipal, state or other government. The AHJ does not adopt the code, the municipality adopts the code (law) and the AHJ enforces.

Just look at the first pages of your code book at the sample ordinance page.

Section R113 Violations
R113.1 Unlawful acts. It shall be unlawful for any person, firm or corporation to erect construct, alter, extend, repair, move, remove, demolish or occupy any building, structure or equipment regulated by this code, or cause same to be done, in conflict with or in violation of any of the provisions of this code.
R113.3 Prosecution of violation.
R113.4 Violation penalties.

I think the code thinks it is law...

[Rick Maday]

Thanks,
I stand corrected.