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mathew stouffer
05-05-2008, 07:18 PM
Has anyone taken courses for EIFS inspection training at the Exterior Design Institute?

Steven Turetsky
05-05-2008, 07:58 PM
Yes. Great course.

Richard Stanley
05-06-2008, 05:15 AM
They also have (or did) an on-line course. Its pretty good, but, I suspect the live one is better.

Scott Patterson
05-06-2008, 06:26 AM
Yes, I did. Great course that every home inspector should take. You will learn how water impacts a structure regardless of what the cladding is.

Lisa Endza
12-17-2009, 05:40 PM
Regarding Exterior Design Institute (EDI):

Steven Turetsky:
Yes. Great course.Richard Stanley:
They also have (or did) an on-line course. Its pretty good, but, I suspect the live one is better.Scott Patterson:
Yes, I did. Great course that every home inspector should take. You will learn how water impacts a structure regardless of what the cladding is.InterNACHI is pleased to hear such comments about EDI.

A.D. Miller
12-17-2009, 07:15 PM
I took their course 10 years ago (MA-TX 29). It was a relatively decent course that left me wanting for a plethora of details and was heavily weighted in the EIMA (EIFS Industry Manufacturers Association) direction. But it has to be better that what is offered by AWCI who is now officing EIMA in their building.

Lisa Endza
12-17-2009, 07:21 PM
A lot has changed in 10 years.

A.D. Miller
12-18-2009, 05:02 AM
A lot has changed in 10 years.

LE: Each time I look in the mirror, I must agree. Oy vey, the gravity!:D

Richard Stanley
12-18-2009, 05:34 AM
Is Nicky buying EDI? Or did he already buy it?

Edit .. nevermind - I just found this..
http://www.nachi.org/edi.htm (http://www.nachi.org/edi.htm)

Scott Patterson
12-18-2009, 07:27 AM
Is Nicky buying EDI? Or did he already buy it?

Edit .. nevermind - I just found this..
http://www.nachi.org/edi.htm (http://www.nachi.org/edi.htm)

Looks like it. I'm surprised that Ray Lynch would sell it. EDI was the choice for folks who needed to learn about EIFS. They had some good trainers.

I dropped my EDI membership a few years back, the organization really did not offer anything outside of the Internet listing and even that was not all that good. Just glancing it looks like their membership is about half of what it use to be, might be why Ray is selling it. The calls for EIFS inspection have dropped off to almost nothing. I might do 6 EIFS inspections a years and back in the late 1990's to around 2004 I averaged around 2-3 EIFS inspections a week! Granted many were for lawsuits and class action settlements back then. Now that all of that is over, folks just want to know the condition before they buy. EIFS still has a bad name and homes with it they are still very slow to sell.

If this merger goes through I hope that the purpose for the creation of EDI is not lost and that many of the trainers will maintian a relationship. This type of training needs to be hands-on, it is virtually impossible to get what you need by looking at a computer screen.

A.D. Miller
12-18-2009, 07:56 AM
The calls for EIFS inspection have dropped off to almost nothing.


SP: I have had the same experience.


EIFS still has a bad name and homes with it are still very slow to sell.

SP: And that, even with the army of EIFS apologists hard at work.

Lisa Endza
12-18-2009, 09:50 AM
And how do you like your reporting software?

A.D. Miller
12-18-2009, 10:03 AM
And how do you like your reporting software?

LE: I did use InspectionPro until the last time I updated computers and the schmuck who owns the company would not repspond to my emails for a code he requires when migrating to another machine. He's hell-bent on selling his "new and improved" version for $595 which does nothing more than the old version.

Lisa Endza
12-18-2009, 11:45 AM
Nick might be able to help with Dominic. Here is Nick's cell phone #, 720 272-8578. Give him a call. He likes to handle member complaints himself.

Scott Patterson
12-18-2009, 03:55 PM
Nick might be able to help with Dominic. Here is Nick's cell phone #, 720 272-8578. Give him a call. He likes to handle member complaints himself.

It is a differant company (same name as Dominic's) that produced the EIFS software that AD is talking about. It was made by a company called Stephen Technologies.

FYI....
From one of EDI's trainers:
I corresponded with Ray Lynch (Founder and Exec. Director of EDI) today. He says that there is currently a joint agreement for EDI to provide Toxic Drywall Inspector training and certification to INACHI members as a member benefit. That training and certification is already available to EDI members through their web-based online training. He does not indicate any plans for EDI to be "assimilated" into INACHI, though he doesn't specifically deny it either. I guess we'll see what develops.

Dan Harris
12-18-2009, 04:11 PM
Is Nicky buying EDI? Or did he already buy it?

Edit .. nevermind - I just found this..
http://www.nachi.org/edi.htm (http://www.nachi.org/edi.htm)


Now he can print all the training courses at the printing business he bought in Colorado a few years ago. :D
After he pays for it he can go get it in the nascar stock car that he sponsers. :D
I'm still waiting for him to take over this site since he bought it from Brian a couple years ago. :D :D

Lisa Endza
12-18-2009, 04:28 PM
Dan,

The inspection book publishing company is now run by Inspector Outlet (http://www.inspectoroutlet.com/books-articles-and-education.aspx) I'm not sure but I think they publish about 15 different InterNACHI inspection books. You can view and order them there. They also publish InterNACHI's inspection textbooks. InterNACHI produces nearly all of the inspection industry's texts.

BTW, It was never NASCAR BTW, nor did we ever say it was. You made up that rumor. It was a stock car. They also hand-built an all-green, propane-fired off-road inspection vehicle to promote their free, online green building inspection course. The vehicle was sponsored by FREA and PRO-LAB and was showcased at ITA's 2007 Inspection Convention in Vegas. It was a huge booth draw. Here is a picture of it NACHI.TV, MoveInCertified, Ultimate Inspection Vehicle, and CMI in Vegas, October 2007 - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/vegas2007.htm) You'll find a picture of me at that link. :o

Dan Harris
12-18-2009, 04:32 PM
Lisa. I stand by my statements.
They are as iron clad as your employment contract with nicko :D
If you do some minor research you will find he claimed it was an ARCA car, ARCA is a division of NASCAR

Lisa Endza
12-18-2009, 04:53 PM
It may have been ARCA, I don't know anything about race cars, but he didn't build the stock car. Nick did build the off-road green vehicle from the ground up inside www.NACHI.TV (http://www.nachi.tv) Studios. Companies rent it for trade shows and put their logos all over it. It is booked out a year or so into the future. Did you see it at SEMA?

Dan Harris
12-18-2009, 05:00 PM
It may have been ARCA, I don't know anything about race cars, but he didn't build the stock car. Nick built the off-road green vehicle from the ground up inside Did you see it at SEMA?

I don't know who built the car, I just saw the posts where nicho claimed he sponsered it, then dressed it in nacho apperal

SEMA? Is that a new instant on-line pay nicko certificiation? :D
Nope, anything with nachi written on it goes into my spam folders, including the spam email from nachi that does not have the option of opting out. :D

Lisa Endza
12-18-2009, 05:10 PM
I don't know who built the car.

Here is a picture of Nick working on it. Sneak peek of NACHI TV's " The Making of the Ultimate Inspection Vehicle" - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/nachitvuiv.htm)

As for spam, you may have gotten some emails from us this week. Did you?

Dan Harris
12-18-2009, 05:25 PM
As for spam, you may have gotten some emails from us this week. Did you?

Yep. And after requesting I be removed from your email list, a reply from nichos newest elete student in training called me an a.. hole.
She did wish me Merry Christmas before the name calling. Does that make it ok?? :D

Since I have requested my name be removed from your list several times in the past, is it true your site, or emails can be shut down for a few days when I complain to the proper people?

Lisa Endza
12-18-2009, 05:33 PM
Yep. And after requesting I be removed from your email list, a reply from nichos newest elete student in training called me an a.. hole.
She did wish me Merry Christmas before the name calling. She was hired for her accuracy.;) Is it not Christmas?

You got back on a new list because you did business with an inspection industry vendor quietly owned by InterNACHI. I guess that makes you our client, Dan :eek:

Dan Harris
12-18-2009, 05:46 PM
She was hired for her accuracy.;)

You got back on a new list because you did business with an inspection industry vendor quietly owned by InterNACHI. I guess that makes you our client, Dan :eek:

I only buy from professional advertizers on this site, and professional prefered ASHI venders.
If any of them are quietly owned by nick. You can be assured when I find out which vender it is, I will never intentially support any one that has any part of bashing others in this profession, and would not do business with them again. :D

Lisa Endza
12-18-2009, 06:00 PM
I only buy from professional advertizers on this site, and professional prefered ASHI venders. Very wise. :)

A.D. Miller
12-19-2009, 05:55 AM
She can send me email anytime she wants . . .:D

Richard Stanley
12-19-2009, 07:13 AM
She's drinking the kool aid.:D

Dan Harris
12-19-2009, 08:12 AM
You got back on a new list because you did business with an inspection industry vendor quietly owned by InterNACHI. I guess that makes you our client, Dan :eek:

Lisa, being Christmas and all, I hate to break this news to you. :)
The excuse since I buy from inspection venders that are quietly owned by nick, and that now makes me a nacho clinet does not pass the test. :)

After reviewing the previous spam nacho emails, I found that all the spam emails nachi sent to me are to an email address that I do not give to venders, or anybody else.
Yep, I'll be darned, who would of guessed , it's the same email adress that is only used by other Home Inspection vender spammers use to spam me.
Hmmm, I wonder who sells that email address to others...

Looks like you will have to have your high priced lawyers think of another excuse. :D :D

Lisa Endza
12-19-2009, 10:33 AM
Dan, InterNACHI creates great products and services for home inspectors. Almost all of them are yours for free. Have the good sense to take advantage of them. Do it for your family.

PS. Claire says "hi."

Dan Harris
12-19-2009, 01:47 PM
Dan, InterNACHI creates great products and services for home inspectors. Almost all of them are yours for free. Have the good sense to take advantage of them. Do it for your family.

PS. Claire says "hi."

FREE ? Do you think I'm as gullabile as an obomaitte. :D
I sure don't consider Paying Nick $289.00 for his products, and services that I can get here for free, getting something from nick for free.

Join your org for my family. That's why I don't do it. Why would I pay some person $s that's, called me dumb, stupid, a scum bag, thinks I should be killed , since I don't pay him, and made it clear, if I don't pay him he will destroy me, and any other HI org that I choose to join. To top it off his newist employee considers me to be an a..hole :D
Why should my family suffer from me getting no inspections due to the repetutation of his org, chat board, a few dishonest inspectors, after customers search me, and see that I am affiliated with such unprofessional crap, and marketing scams.
Yes many customers do research their inspector, to date, after hiring me, I've had 10 plus make a comment about the unprofessionalizm of your org.

Mike Schulz
12-20-2009, 02:54 PM
Brian still owns this board doesn't he???

Jim Weyenberg
12-20-2009, 07:30 PM
I hope Brian still owns it, if notchochez, does I'm GONE.
Jim Weyenberg
HouseMaster Inc.
NE. WI.

Dan Harris
12-20-2009, 08:55 PM
I hope Brian still owns it, if notchochez, does I'm GONE.
Jim Weyenberg
HouseMaster Inc.
NE. WI.
I'm sure Brian still owns it.
If it was controlled by nicko it would be all nacho advertizing all the time, instead of just part time :)

A.D. Miller
12-21-2009, 07:13 AM
I'm sure Brian still owns it.
If it was controlled by nicko it would be all nacho advertizing all the time, instead of just part time :)

DH: Perhaps Brian's silence at this point speaks volumes.

Dan Harris
12-21-2009, 07:28 AM
DH: Perhaps Brian's silence at this point speaks volumes.


I think he's still around. A couple weeks ago he gave us heck for getting too carried away on one of the topics. :)

Since he's a newly wed I noticed he hasn't been here as much, just figured he has better things to do than keep us in line 24/7

A.D. Miller
12-21-2009, 07:44 AM
I think he's still around. A couple weeks ago he gave us heck for getting too carried away on one of the topics. :)

Since he's a newly wed I noticed he hasn't been here as much, just figured he has better things to do than keep us in line 24/7

DH: But, is the Hann the owner, or an employee/sub?

Scott Patterson
12-21-2009, 09:51 AM
Brian still owns this board doesn't he???

Why would you ask?

A.D. Miller
12-21-2009, 10:03 AM
Why would you ask?

SP: I think they are just attempting to monitor the spread of Nick's empire.:D

Mike Schulz
12-21-2009, 10:41 AM
Doesn't really matter but I kind of would miss Brian running the forum. Like loosing a friend you know. Also it's just nice to be part of peers group without any special interest organizations.

Steven Turetsky
12-21-2009, 10:50 AM
SP: I think they are just attempting to monitor the spread of Nick's empire.:D

Or perhaps they are amazed that Brian has not stepped in and shut down the bantering.

The subject of this thread is very meaningful to me. I was disappointed when it turned into another boring bashing contest of little value.

I spoke to Ray Lynch, he informed me that EDI has not been sold. There is a joint project with InterNachi limited to Chinese drywall.

I will add, "who knows what the future will bring?" If it ever should be that EDI is sold, I hope the new owner is dedicated to EDI and its misssion, and continues to promote the good reputation that EDI has.

A.D. Miller
12-21-2009, 10:56 AM
I spoke to Ray Lynch, he informed me that EDI has not been sold. There is a joint project with InterNachi limited to Chinese drywall.

ST: So how does that square with this?

InterNACHI Acquiring EDI - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/edi.htm)

Steven Turetsky
12-21-2009, 12:09 PM
I read the statement and it sure sounds like they acquired EDI. Especially since EDI has not put forth a statement clarifying the issue.

I have always preferred to stand clear of the inter-association squabble. Just because someone is a member of a certain association, it does make him a bad inspector, and just because someone is a member of a certain association it does make him a good inspector.

I understand people's feelings and I'm not disputing anybody. I just can't think of too many threads, where the discussion was helped by the squabble.

EDI has now been drawn into the squabble. I don't see how that can be helpful.

If EDI was acquired, I am concerned. I would prefer that EDI not be run by any other group. I would prefer that who ever runs EDI, holds EDI and its mission, as their primary interest.

A.D. Miller
12-21-2009, 12:18 PM
I read the statement and it sure sounds like they acquired EDI. Especially since EDI has not put forth a statement clarifying the issue.ST: Yes, but in all fairness, it would not be the first time that Nick doctored the truth, now would it?


Just because someone is a member of a certain association, it does make him a bad inspector, and just because someone is a member of a certain association it does make him a good inspector. ST: Agreed.


I just can't think of too many threads, where the discussion was helped by the squabble. ST: Perhaps not many, but some.


EDI has now been drawn into the squabble. I don't see how that can be helpful. ST: Promotion is the reason. I am reminded of the story of Benjamin Franklin, boy printer, who in order to draw attention to his business, moved all of his supplies down the streets of Philadelphia in a wheelbarrow with a wheel he'd purposely neglected to grease. The squeaky wheel draws attention.

Bob Elliott
12-21-2009, 09:59 PM
If Nick buys IN, you guys that hate him still have the snooze fest at TIJ...:)

A.D. Miller
12-22-2009, 06:26 AM
If Nick buys IN, you guys that hate him still have the snooze fest at TIJ...:)

BE: Z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z . . . :eek:

Steven Turetsky
12-22-2009, 08:30 PM
AD: So time will tell. Que sera, sera. I have the best interest of EDI at heart.

Tom Edwards
12-22-2009, 08:51 PM
Why would you ask?

Scott,

It matters a great deal to me.
I still remember exchanging emails with that megalomaniac several years ago when he barged into a friendly email exchange between me and a local HI "friend" and remains a friend regardless of his stupid sharing of an email with Nick. Nick has a very low opinion of anyone who isn't "him", working for "him" or subscribing to "him". If you dare to disagree with him the conversation will quickly drop into the muck and mire led, of course, by "him". I finally had to ignore him and hope, like the pesky fly, that he would simply go away. Like any P. T. Barnum, he has a following.

His insanity goes way beyond the pale. I give him the same credit for his success that I give Goring, A. Hitler's one-time rival for leadership and subsequent "communications director" of the National Socialist Democratic Party, not a right-wing outfit, if you get my drift. Goring did a great job if you wish to mislead the sheep of the world and bully anyone who still has a brain into submission. I offer Nick the same fate as Herr Goring. The public is stupid, including a lot of HI's wanting overnight credibility. We know that. The truth is that you "can't fool all the people all the time". Someday a dawn will break on the horizon and all will be known.

I believe that otherwise congnizant people will follow anyone who will offer them the pablum they desire at "just the right price". The old saying that "there's a sucker born every minute" was so right.
I wouldn't mind quite so much except that the scam affects how the public views our industry. If they keep getting crap for home inspection reports and HI's keep shielding themselves from responsibility with "return of fee only" clauses there will come a time when hiring a "professional home inspector" won't have nearly the value as it has in the past. That bothers me a lot. Bottom feeders will smell up the place over time. I know that Nick is not solely responsible for all that is wrong with our industry but he has taken what was bad, dipped in dung and offered it to bottom feeders as a "cure all" for their credibility needs.

Life isn't fair but one can still hope that someone one day will cry out "The emperor has no clothes!" and creditialing will require either a proven record of responsibility towards the public (ie., no shielding of responsibility beyond "return of fee") or real academic training and internship just like other professionals; P.E.'s, C.P.A.'s, physicians assistant's, Licensed Practical Nurses, Certified Medical Assistants. It's a darn shame that even a CMA has more credibility than most HI's and the HI gets more money with less responsibility. It just ain't fair.

If Brian has sold this site I submit that he should make us aware even though it is a free site.
I always feel that I need a shower after going onto Nicky's web sites which I do only when someone has linked something of relative value. His outrageous claims of credibility - "Inspected once, Inspected Right" is just too much to accept from an inspector selling certification "online".

I have heard the anguish of homebuyers in Greensboro and Winston-Salem who had to pay for roof replacement, $7,200, the same week they took possession of the home after a NACHI CERTIFIED inspector submitted his report with no mention of the worn roof. These so-called CERTIFIED inspector count on the timidity of the average home buyer towards litigation. These guys are the wolves of our industry that devour innocent home buyers everyday.
I have followed so-called "certified" inspectors just two weeks later to find over $50,000 in damages that included two roof leaks and a flooding crawl space, 2005 construction, each time it rains. In both cases, the "return of fee only" clause was a shield against responsibility. It stinks and the home buying public is going to get wise to it very soon.
Remember...people who "stand for nothing will fall for anything". If we, as responsible service providers stand idly by without speaking out against this practice we are complicit in our silence.

I realize that I have taken a simple question about a site's ownership and turned into a rant against (a) the "him" and (b) incompetent inspectors wearing the badge of NACHI CERFICATION, which they lawfully earned "online". My apoligies to you for the rant but no apologies for the sentiment towards the "ONLINE CERTIFIED" or anyone who includes a "return of fee only" clause in their inspection agreement. They do the industry a great injustice. It matters to me.

Bob Elliott
12-22-2009, 09:04 PM
Scott,

It matters a great deal to me.
I still remember exchanging emails with that megalomaniac several years ago when he barged into a friendly email exchange between me and a local HI "friend" and remains a friend regardless of his stupid sharing of an email with Nick. Nick has a very low opinion of anyone who isn't "him", working for "him" or subscribing to "him". If you dare to disagree with him the conversation will quickly drop into the muck and mire led, of course, by "him". I finally had to ignore him and hope, like the pesky fly, that he would simply go away. Like any P. T. Barnum, he has a following.

His insanity goes way beyond the pale. I give him the same credit for his success that I give Goring, A. Hitler's one-time rival for leadership and subsequent "communications director" of the National Socialist Democratic Party, not a right-wing outfit, if you get my drift. Goring did a great job if you wish to mislead the sheep of the world and bully anyone who still has a brain into submission. I offer Nick the same fate as Herr Goring. The public is stupid, including a lot of HI's wanting overnight credibility. We know that. The truth is that you "can't fool all the people all the time". Someday a dawn will break on the horizon and all will be known.

I believe that otherwise congnizant people will follow anyone who will offer them the pablum they desire at "just the right price". The old saying that "there's a sucker born every minute" was so right.
I wouldn't mind quite so much except that the scam affects how the public views our industry. If they keep getting crap for home inspection reports and HI's keep shielding themselves from responsibility with "return of fee only" clauses there will come a time when hiring a "professional home inspector" won't have nearly the value as it has in the past. That bothers me a lot. Bottom feeders will smell up the place over time. I know that Nick is not solely responsible for all that is wrong with our industry but he has taken what was bad, dipped in dung and offered it to bottom feeders as a "cure all" for their credibility needs.

Life isn't fair but one can still hope that someone one day will cry out "The emperor has no clothes!" and creditialing will require either a proven record of responsibility towards the public (ie., no shielding of responsibility beyond "return of fee") or real academic training and internship just like other professionals; P.E.'s, C.P.A.'s, physicians assistant's, Licensed Practical Nurses, Certified Medical Assistants. It's a darn shame that even a CMA has more credibility than most HI's and the HI gets more money with less responsibility. It just ain't fair.

If Brian has sold this site I submit that he should make us aware even though it is a free site.
I always feel that I need a shower after going onto Nicky's web sites which I do only when someone has linked something of relative value. His outrageous claims of credibility - "Inspected once, Inspected Right" is just too much to accept from an inspector selling certification "online".

I have heard the anguish of homebuyers in Greensboro and Winston-Salem who had to pay for roof replacement, $7,200, the same week they took possession of the home after a NACHI CERTIFIED inspector submitted his report with no mention of the worn roof. These so-called CERTIFIED inspector count on the timidity of the average home buyer towards litigation. These guys are the wolves of our industry that devour innocent home buyers everyday.
I have followed so-called "certified" inspectors just two weeks later to find over $50,000 in damages that included two roof leaks and a flooding crawl space, 2005 construction, each time it rains. In both cases, the "return of fee only" clause was a shield against responsibility. It stinks and the home buying public is going to get wise to it very soon.
Remember...people who "stand for nothing will fall for anything". If we, as responsible service providers stand idly by without speaking out against this practice we are complicit in our silence.

I realize that I have taken a simple question about a site's ownership and turned into a rant against (a) the "him" and (b) incompetent inspectors wearing the badge of NACHI CERFICATION, which they lawfully earned "online". My apoligies to you for the rant but no apologies for the sentiment towards the "ONLINE CERTIFIED" or anyone who includes a "return of fee only" clause in their inspection agreement. They do the industry a great injustice. It matters to me.

Try Prozac.
Get some sleep.

I hope the days look brighter for you in the future.

Dan Harris
12-22-2009, 09:59 PM
I realize that I have taken a simple question about a site's ownership and turned into a rant against (a) the "him" and (b) incompetent inspectors wearing the badge of NACHI CERFICATION, which they lawfully earned "online". My apoligies to you for the rant but no apologies for the sentiment towards the "ONLINE CERTIFIED" or anyone who includes a "return of fee only" clause in their inspection agreement. They do the industry a great injustice. It matters to me.

Dang, it's good to know, there are some others left out there that haven't given up and decided it's just best to shut up, just pay nick , and accept the cancer in our profession. :)

Brian Hannigan
12-22-2009, 10:30 PM
Since he's a newly wed I noticed he hasn't been here as much, just figured he has better things to do than keep us in line 24/7

Hi all,

Not to worry, InspectionNews is still my baby. Nothing has changed at all, no sale has been made, just got a new sponsor for this section. There are over 104,000 post on this site and no way can I read all the new post made every day. I've got other parts of the business to tend to.

I'm open to all inspection associations, services and products sponsoring InspectionNews. That is how I have been able to keep it fee for you all these years so please remember to visit the sponsors on every trip you make to InspectionNews.

If you have any pull in an association or want to advertise your service or product to 12,000 + members please let me know.

Bob Elliott
12-22-2009, 10:33 PM
Dang, it's good to know, there are some others left out there that haven't given up and decided it's just best to shut up, just pay nick , and accept the cancer in our profession. :)

My old man taught me it is best not to disparage your competition so I guess we are not really brothers after all.:p

As the Joker said......why so sad.

Merry Christmas
Peace ,Love and Brotherhood to all.

Dan Harris
12-22-2009, 10:38 PM
My old man taught me it is best not to disparage your competition so I guess we are not really brothers after all.:p

As the Joker said......why so sad.

Merry Christmas
Peace ,Love and Brotherhood to all.

Hey Bro:)
If your old man taught you that, why would you support and pay someone to disparage your brothers?

Bob Elliott
12-22-2009, 10:44 PM
Hi all,

Not to worry, InspectionNews is still my baby. Nothing has changed at all, no sale has been made, just got a new sponsor for this section. There are over 104,000 post on this site and no way can I read all the new post made every day. I've got other parts of the business to tend to.

I'm open to all inspection associations, services and products sponsoring InspectionNews. That is how I have been able to keep it fee for you all these years so please remember to visit the sponsors on every trip you make to InspectionNews.

If you have any pull in an association or want to advertise your service or product to 12,000 + members please let me know.

Thanks Brian

Just goes to show how rumors start.

Bob Elliott
12-22-2009, 10:52 PM
Hey Bro:)
If your old man taught you that, why would you support and pay someone to disparage your brothers?

I pay $289 to have the best represent me, and from your reaction I choose well.:)

Answer 2
I never bash anyone unless defending myself which is ethical by any standard.

Answer 3

I am not responsible for any individuals comments that happens to be associated with any group I belong to any more than other ASHI members are responsible for your constant association bashing.

All one needs to do is backtrack all the comments ,threads,and posts to see who is typing what.

Never saw Nick on this forum in the last month I started posting.

I have seen posts titled Whats up or wrong with NACHI.
I have seen this thread go from saying EDI is great to all of a sudden it is cr-p in the blink of an eye on the false assumption it is being run by NACHI.

Sorry but I have 4 reports do do in the next 24 hours so have fun if there is nothing better going on.

Tom Edwards
12-22-2009, 11:07 PM
Dang, it's good to know, there are some others left out there that haven't given up and decided it's just best to shut up, just pay nick , and accept the cancer in our profession. :)

Thank you Dan.
I realize that my rant was wide ranging and particularly critical of people buying certification emblems. Sometimes it just gets under my skin how some practioners of this industry treat the industry that has given many of us a darn good living. Worst yet is how some HI's place dollar limits on their responsibility to the client.
My attitude is if they don't trust themselves beyond a certain dollar limit why should the homebuyer? Everyone should have equal "skin in the game" or it leads to abuse of the consumer. The consumer is risking tens of thousands of dollars when they invest in a "professional home inspector". The playing field should be level with the inspector at risk as well. I guaranty you that most of the clients don't have a clue what they are signing and agree that the HI is taking no risk beyond a certain dollar amount, usually the amount of the fee or a multiple thereof. With a deal like that you don't have to be good, you just have to be lucky. So what if you miss a roof or damage that is "accessible and visible". If they complain you return the fee and tell them to shut up. Maybe some readers of this missive would never mistreat their clients this way but I have spoken to many homebuyers that have already suffered at the hands of the "certified", regardless of the association to which they pay dues.
Thanks for listening.....
...also, glad to know Nick doesn't yet own this site. I didn't need another shower tonight.

Dan Harris
12-23-2009, 08:08 AM
Never saw Nick on this forum in the last month I started posting.


I have seen this thread go from saying EDI is great to all of a sudden it is cr-p in the blink of an eye on the false assumption it is being run by NACHI.
.

If I recall ole nicko was banned from this site.
When do you think he started name calling of this site, then tried to hijack this site by leaving one "n" out of the new website he created?

Funny you mention the EDI topic. Did you notice it was dead for over a year and a half, UNTILL, guess who started it back up.?
Of course we all know , if nicki said it, it must be true. :D

Dan Cullen
12-28-2009, 01:46 PM
Getting back to EDI. I bought their EIFS training materials a few years back and was very disappointed in the quality. Disjointed and confusing printed and CD-rom materials made it difficult to absorb the information. I hope (and have heard from attendees) that the classroom sessions are very good. I would advise folks to pursue the classroom if interested in the cert.

Now, back to the NACHI debacle. I've had a pretty dim view of that association's professionalism but I have chosen to be a member. Why? Because they provide a lot of resources for the money and they are always looking for more ways to be a benefit to their members. I don't care about the Gromicko's personal lives or about any petty feuds between them and other HI organizations.

I'd like to bring up the "Limited to Fee Paid" liability issue. I agree that it is a raw deal to consumers and I often point that out to my clients when discussing our contract. However, in the State of Illinois our appellate court has upheld that clause in HI contracts. Why would I hang myself out to dry if I don't have to? I have E and O and we have very high inspection standards....I should increase my liability out of some sense of altruism? Wouldn't that really be telling my clients that I don't trust myself to do a good job?

If there was some sort of protection against frivolous or petty lawsuits against HI's then I would be happy to see an increase in direct fiscal responsibility on the part of the HI. Just some thoughts. Happy New Year.

Tom Edwards
12-28-2009, 04:13 PM
Now, back to the NACHI debacle. I've had a pretty dim view of that association's professionalism but I have chosen to be a member. Why? Because they provide a lot of resources for the money and they are always looking for more ways to be a benefit to their members. I don't care about the Gromicko's personal lives or about any petty feuds between them and other HI organizations.

Dan, I think you miss the point somewhat on how NACHI is viewed by concientious inspectors. I hope we can all agree that the term "Certified" is overused by all associations and practitioners at this time. I tell people daily that the term means absolutely nothing at this time.
Anyone who is comfortable using the term after successfully completing an unproctored "online" exam is so disconnected with reality that a substantive discussion is most likely out of the question. For that reason, alone, most of us have decided to tip toe softely around those who have drank the "kool aid".
I only mention "him" and his megalomania to enlighten those who may not be aware. I don't assume that everyone has had the same experiences that I have had. As to the benefits of membership, I care deeply with whom I associate. There can never be enough benefit for me in that association simply due to the false ascertions made to the home buying public of the membership. The members are not any more qualified than the newest novice as a result of the qualifying exam. That, alone, should be enough.

I'd like to bring up the "Limited to Fee Paid" liability issue. I agree that it is a raw deal to consumers and I often point that out to my clients when discussing our contract. However, in the State of Illinois our appellate court has upheld that clause in HI contracts. Why would I hang myself out to dry if I don't have to? I have E and O and we have very high inspection standards....I should increase my liability out of some sense of altruism? Wouldn't that really be telling my clients that I don't trust myself to do a good job?

If there was some sort of protection against frivolous or petty lawsuits against HI's then I would be happy to see an increase in direct fiscal responsibility on the part of the HI. Just some thoughts. Happy New Year.

If you see inequity in your contract with your clients why do you continue to perpetrate the injustice? I know you do not intend to use it as a shield but, if that were true, why have it in your contract?
HI's do use it as a shield long before litigation begins. I have evidence of that fact. In fact, more often than not, the clause retards litigation as the client feels that he has been mugged by his inspector and is somewhat ashamed of being a victim. I know. I have spoken to the homebuyers and that is exactly how they see their inspector.
They believe that they were "too trusting" of everyone from the inspector to the Realtor. They vow that it will not happen again. I am on their side. They have been mistreated and harmed by a so-called, CERTIFIED, and licensed professional. What a laugh if it weren't a true story.

You state that you have E & O insurance. So what? Many E & O insurance carriers, according to my fellow HI's, require the "limitation of refund" clause in the contract. For what other reason would the carrier require the clause if they did not intent to use it as a shield?

If you did as I do and remove the clause from your contracts you could point out to your clients, and prospects when they call, that you do not have a "return of fee" clause in your agreement as so many other inspectors do.
In doing so you will be telling your client that "you do trust yourself" beyond the loss of a fee, and they can as well.
Keeping the clause in your agreement is a glaring statement that you do not trust yourself beyond the loss of the fee. Hopefully, you can see that. If you don't, then this discussion is fruitless and there is no reason to discuss it further.

You mentioned liability, which is something with which we all have to deal.
It's simple.
#1 Agree to provide a service according to the Standards of Practice of either your state regulatory board or your membership-driven professional association. Be sure to provide a readily accessible document outlining these standards for your client prior to acceptance of the agreement.
#2 Include an arbitration clause within your agreement that specifies that a knowledgeable expert in the field of home inspections must be used for arbitration if the client wishes to proceed to a settlement of any dispute. There is an arbitration company that specializes in construction, warranty and home inspector disputes and they provide service nationwide. They're home-based in Charlotte, NC.
#3 Require, in the agreement, that the client take action on any "recommendations" within the report or lose the opportunity to make any claims regarding that system or component later. If I recommend repairs to a system and no "on site" action is taken prior to closing I refuse to be responsible for findings within that system at a later date. They failed to follow their hired expert's recommendations. End of story.
#4 Require that the client allow for a timely inspection of the disputed component.
#5 Require that the client specify in writing exactly which of the "standards" you breached in the performance of the inspection and subsequent report prior to moving on to arbitration.
#6 Specify that any plaintiff, regardless of who they may be, pay all the cost of arbitration, typically $600-800, so that you aren't dragged into mindless expense without first being proved at fault.
#7 Perform your inspections in an exemplary manner and write your reports following all the standards required by the governing authority. It really isn't all that difficult for a trained, or experienced, professional. It is nearly impossible for the untrained, part-time and/or marginally literate inspector. But then, why would we want to protect them from the public? They are often the problem, "certified" or not, aren't they?

So, Dan. I've revealed to you my secrets. There is protection against frivolous law suits. If you follow the standards while performing the inspection and writing the report you can rest assured that very few clients will pursue monetary redress when they have to front the cost of arbitration. If they have a case you will want to provide redress for them as soon as you are made aware of the problem, won't you? If you refuse to be bullied and suggest that they attempt arbitration "according to the contract" they go away. I've seen it happen in the few times I've been annoyed with the 1% of the public that expects something for nothing. I've enjoyed being a full-time inspector for 20 years. I, too, had a learning curve. I feel extremely comfortable without including a "weasel clause" in my agreement. Soon, conscientious HI's will remove it from their agreements to be fair with their clients regardless of the insurance carriers or influence from lawyers. You should lead rather than follow.

Lisa Endza
12-28-2009, 04:38 PM
InterNACHI realizes that some inspectors don't like unproctored, online education, quizzes or exams. But the fact is that they are used by Harvard, Yale, the U.S. Military, and nearly every government agency and licensing board that approves anything to do with inspections. For example, InterNACHI's free, online courses, quizzes and exams are approved by:

Alaska Department of Commerce Community and Economic Development, Division of Corporations, Business and Professional Licensing, Home Inspector Program
Arkansas Home Inspector Registration Board
California Department of Pesticide Regulation
Colorado Department of Agriculture, Division of Plant Industry
Connecticut Department of Consumer Protection, Home Inspector Licensing Board
Delaware Department of Agriculture, Pesticide Compliance
Georgia Department of Agriculture
IAC2
Idaho Department of Agriculture
Indiana Real Estate Commission, Home Inspector Licensing Board
Illinois Department of Financial and Professional Regulation
InterNACHI
International Distance Education Certification Center
Kentucky Department of Housing, Buildings and Construction, Board of Home Inspectors
Kentucky Public Protection Cabinet Office of Occupations and Professions Board of Home Inspectors
Maine Department of Agriculture, Food & Rural Resources, Board of Pesticides Control
Maryland Department of Agriculture, Office of Plant and Pest Management
Massachusettes Department of Agricultural Resources
Master Inspector Certification Board
Michigan Department of Labor and Economic Growth
Mississippi Home Inspector Board
Missouri Real Estate Commission
Montana Department of Labor and Industry, Business Standards Division
Montana Department of Labor and Industry, Business Standards Division 2
Mountain Metro Association of REALTORs
Nevada Department of Agriculture
Nevada Department of Business and Industry, Real Estate Division
New Hampshire Home Inspector Licensing Board
New Jersey Office of the Attorney General, Division of Consumer Affairs, State Board of Professional Engineers and Land Surveyors, Home Inspection Advisory Committee
New Mexico Department of Agriculture
North Dakota Secretary of State
Ohio Department of Agriculture
Ohio Department of Commerce, Division of Real Estate & Professional Licensing
Oklahoma Department of Agriculture
Oklahoma State Department of Health, Occupational Licensing Division, Committee of Home Inspector Examiners
Oregon Construction Contractors Board
Oregon Department of Agriculture
Pennsylvania Department of Agriculture
Rhode Island Division of Agriculture
South Carolina and Clemson University Department of Pesticide Regulation
South Dakota Real Estate Commission
Tennessee Department of Agriculture
Tennessee Department of Commerce and Insurance, Division of Regulatory Boards, Home Inspector Licensing Division
Tennessee Department of Commerce and Insurance, Home Inspector Licensing Division
Texas Real Estate Commission (TREC)
Utah Department of Agriculture
Vermont Agency of Agriculture, Food and Markets
Virginia Department of Professional and Occupational Regulation
West Virginia Department of Military Affairs and Public Safety, State Fire Marshal's Office
Wisconsin Department of Regulation and Licensing
Wyoming Real Estate Commission
Wyoming Department of Agriculture

You may view InterNACHI's approvals and accreditations here. (http://www.nachi.org/education.htm)

Tom Edwards
12-28-2009, 06:02 PM
InterNACHI realizes that some inspectors don't like unproctored, online education, quizzes or exams. But the fact is that they are used by Harvard, Yale, the U.S. Military, and nearly every government agency and licensing board that approves anything to do with inspections. For example, InterNACHI's free, online courses, quizzes and exams are approved by:

Alaska Department of Commerce Community and Economic Development, Division of Corporations, Business and Professional Licensing, Home Inspector Program
Arkansas Home Inspector Registration Board
California Department of Pesticide Regulation
Colorado Department of Agriculture, Division of Plant Industry
Connecticut Department of Consumer Protection, Home Inspector Licensing Board
Delaware Department of Agriculture, Pesticide Compliance
Georgia Department of Agriculture
IAC2
Idaho Department of Agriculture
Indiana Real Estate Commission, Home Inspector Licensing Board
Illinois Department of Financial and Professional Regulation
InterNACHI
International Distance Education Certification Center
Kentucky Department of Housing, Buildings and Construction, Board of Home Inspectors
Kentucky Public Protection Cabinet Office of Occupations and Professions Board of Home Inspectors
Maine Department of Agriculture, Food & Rural Resources, Board of Pesticides Control
Maryland Department of Agriculture, Office of Plant and Pest Management
Massachusettes Department of Agricultural Resources
Master Inspector Certification Board
Michigan Department of Labor and Economic Growth
Mississippi Home Inspector Board
Missouri Real Estate Commission
Montana Department of Labor and Industry, Business Standards Division
Montana Department of Labor and Industry, Business Standards Division 2
Mountain Metro Association of REALTORs
Nevada Department of Agriculture
Nevada Department of Business and Industry, Real Estate Division
New Hampshire Home Inspector Licensing Board
New Jersey Office of the Attorney General, Division of Consumer Affairs, State Board of Professional Engineers and Land Surveyors, Home Inspection Advisory Committee
New Mexico Department of Agriculture
North Dakota Secretary of State
Ohio Department of Agriculture
Ohio Department of Commerce, Division of Real Estate & Professional Licensing
Oklahoma Department of Agriculture
Oklahoma State Department of Health, Occupational Licensing Division, Committee of Home Inspector Examiners
Oregon Construction Contractors Board
Oregon Department of Agriculture
Pennsylvania Department of Agriculture
Rhode Island Division of Agriculture
South Carolina and Clemson University Department of Pesticide Regulation
South Dakota Real Estate Commission
Tennessee Department of Agriculture
Tennessee Department of Commerce and Insurance, Division of Regulatory Boards, Home Inspector Licensing Division
Tennessee Department of Commerce and Insurance, Home Inspector Licensing Division
Texas Real Estate Commission (TREC)
Utah Department of Agriculture
Vermont Agency of Agriculture, Food and Markets
Virginia Department of Professional and Occupational Regulation
West Virginia Department of Military Affairs and Public Safety, State Fire Marshal's Office
Wisconsin Department of Regulation and Licensing
Wyoming Real Estate Commission
Wyoming Department of Agriculture

You may view InterNACHI's approvals and accreditations here. (http://www.nachi.org/education.htm)



Lisa, taking online classes and quizzes is not the issue. We were discussing the practice of taking a CERTIFICATION EXAM in an unproctored environment ONLINE.
Surely, you can see how this practice provides zero assurance to the home buying public. The term CERTIFIED has no real meaning when it is AWARDED in this manner? I'm surprised that some slick attorney hasn't attempted to hold the "certification mill" responsible in some third party lawsuit for all the damage it's done. It's a travesty and a grievance against the innocent, home-buying public.


Do you want to be under the knife of an "online certified" surgeon or anesthesiologist? (I sincerely hope you will answer that question in this forum.) Just think. What if your surgeon, took their CERTIFICATION EXAM ONLINE IN THE COMFORT OF THEIR OWN HOME after taking an ONLINE study and pledging, with all their heart, that they are "who they say they are and that they had absolutely no help with their FINAL ONLINE EXAM. Before you answer, just think about it for a short while. Hopefully, it won't take long for you to understand the seriousness of this issue. If you think ONLINE CERTIFICATION is OK for inspectors why not these other "trusted" professionals?
How about a CPA that took their final exam for "certification" online in an unproctored environment? Please, can we be serious?

If, as you have suggested, Ivy League schools are going "open book" or "online" for their Final Exams, which is what CERTIFICATION is equal to, I need to go back to school before the door slams closed again. When I was in school that kind of cheating was dealt with swiftly and justly.

If there are any Ivy League school grads reading this I invite your to speak up to support Lisa's ascertions of how you became so easily degreed. Tell me how easy it was to be awarded your diploma: Ph.D. or Juris Doctor, whatever the case. Or, tell us all that this practice would never be acceptable in a serious academic environment where the awarding of a CERTIFICATE, or diploma, has a significance worthy of praise and universal acceptance as a result of rigorous training and examination process required to earn said CERTIFICATION.

Now, in the field of home inspections, where people intrust their life savings to an untrained, inexperienced, part-time, but CERTIFIED, home inspector, can we seriously accept this as being NORMAL and ACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOR? I don't accept it and I cannot recommend it to a friend. A new saying..."Friends don't let friends get CERTIFIED ONLINE."

David Bell
12-28-2009, 06:33 PM
While I agree that online education has become more the norm than it was, to give credentials from an online test does nothing but flood the market with inept and ignorant people that will serve no purpose but to degrade the industry and destroy the integrity of the profession.

Lisa Endza
12-28-2009, 09:06 PM
Tom, I'm not sure which exam you are talking about as InterNACHI requires the passing of so many different exams. (http://www.nachi.org/rigorous2006.htm)

However, InterNACHI's Code of Ethics 1.10 (http://www.nachi.org/code_of_ethics.htm) requires that all our members also pass a state-proctored exam in those states that require a proctored exam. InterNACHI members voluntarily fulfill InterNACHI's rigorous educational requirements (http://www.nachi.org/membership.htm) on top of, and in addition to any proctored exams required by their local jurisdiction.

In good conscious, InterNACHI cannot issue certification based on one minimum-standard beginners exam used by many states to license newbies fresh out of school alone. And any association that would issue "certification" based on one beginner's exam used to license fresh newbies should be ashamed of themselves.

Dan Harris
12-28-2009, 09:29 PM
In good conscious, InterNACHI cannot issue certification based on one minimum-standard beginners exam used by many states to license newbies fresh out of school alone. And any association that would issue "certification" based on one beginner's exam used to license fresh newbies should be ashamed of themselves.

LOL is it getting deep here? :D
Lisa what beginners exam are you talking about?
I can only assume your talking about the nacho on-line home inspector certificiation quiz that was taken with my cats names [ Bobbie A Feline, Tuxedo Ferral] that nick sent them a congratulations letter for passing the nacho certificiation on-line quiz with an 83% in 14 min.

Then to top it off, he figured he found a couple more suckers and sent them several follow up letters begging them to send him $289.00 :D

Tom Edwards
12-29-2009, 06:53 AM
Tom, I'm not sure which exam you are talking about as InterNACHI requires the passing of so many different exams. (http://www.nachi.org/rigorous2006.htm)

However, InterNACHI's Code of Ethics 1.10 (http://www.nachi.org/code_of_ethics.htm) requires that all our members also pass a state-proctored exam in those states that require a proctored exam. InterNACHI members voluntarily fulfill InterNACHI's rigorous educational requirements (http://www.nachi.org/membership.htm) on top of, and in addition to any proctored exams required by their local jurisdiction.

In good conscious, InterNACHI cannot issue certification based on one minimum-standard beginners exam used by many states to license newbies fresh out of school alone. And any association that would issue "certification" based on one beginner's exam used to license fresh newbies should be ashamed of themselves.


Lisa, did you work for Bill Clinton earlier in life? Your attempts to obfuscate the issue are very similar in nature. "Uh, it depends on what the meaning of "IS" is." I'm sure we all remember that line. Well, those of us old enough to remember, that is. One benefit of being older and astute is that you have lived through some historical events.

Every member of your association that I have met has admitted that they were offered CERTIFICATION along with their membership fee. Are you denying this? Inquiring people want to know. The rest of the "requirements" are so much fluff. Just answer that simple question if you can.

Lisa Endza
12-29-2009, 07:07 AM
That is correct. There is no extra charge to members for their certification. It is included in their membership fee. But I don't know what you mean by
The rest of the "requirements" are so much fluff. These are very large, approved and accredited inspection courses with numerous quizzes and lengthy exams. (http://www.nachi.org/membership.htm) Can you explain?

A.D. Miller
12-29-2009, 07:28 AM
Boyz: True to form, Nick has hired the best and brightest to run forward patrol. This lass is not to be out-written by those with a paucity of synapses. I would take her to task (so to speak), but happen to agree with a large amount of the information she is imparting.

In the event that you believe NACHO's online exam experience to be much different than many of the state-required exams, look again. The TACO (read TREC) exam, at least when I took it, was simplistic beyond description. The only difference was that they were not sophisticated enough to put the damned thing online, so to further embarrass me, I was forced to drive 7 hours round trip to participate in the farce in Austin.

This is all very closely related to many other topics which are discussed at length on this forum. The bar has been lowered friends, but not as low as it will go; that is yet to come. So then, look around at the plethora of under-educated, under-experienced, price-cutting, agent-ass-kissing morons that populate this profession. This is not the work of one evil genius in the form of Nick Gromicko. Only the simplistic idiots of the world would believe in an omnipotent anti-deity (or deity for that matter). We have met the enemy, and he is us.:D

Lisa Endza
12-29-2009, 07:32 AM
Tom, I did some research regarding your "fluff" comment and came up with this.

InterNACHI's free, online Safe Practices for the Home Inspector course includes:
36 sections;
many original graphics and diagrams;
4 quizzes;
a 35-question final exam (drawn from a larger pool);
instant grading;
a downloadable, printable Certificate of Completion; and
accreditations and state approvals.InterNACHI's free, online 25 Standards Every Inspector Should Know course includes:
25 sections;
many photos and diagrams;
75-question final exam (drawn from a larger pool);
instant grading;
a downloadable, printable Certificate of Completion; and
accreditations and state approvals.InterNACHI's free, online Residential Standards of Practices course includes:
12 sections;
many photos and diagrams;
12 quizzes;
100-question final exam (drawn from a larger pool);
instant grading;
a downloadable, printable Certificate of Completion; and
accreditations and state approvals.InterNACHI's free, online Residential Plumbing Overview for Inspectors course includes:
15 sections (103 pages);
many photos and diagrams;
12 quizzes;
70-question final exam (drawn from a larger pool);
instant grading;
a downloadable, printable Certificate of Completion; and
accreditations and state approvals.InterNACHI's free, online Electrical Inspection course includes:
33 sections;
many photos and diagrams;
7 quizzes;
100 question final exam (drawn from a larger pool);
instant grading;
a downloadable, printable Certificate of Completion; and
accreditations and state approvals.InterNACHI's free, online Roofing Inspection course includes:
32 sections;
many photos and diagrams;
8 quizzes;
a 75-question final exam (drawn from a larger pool);
instant grading;
a downloadable, printable Certificate of Completion; and
accreditations and state approvals.InterNACHI's free, online HVAC Inspection course includes:
24 sections;
many photos and diagrams;
8 quizzes;
75-question final exam (drawn from a larger pool);
instant grading;
a downloadable, printable Certificate of Completion; and
accreditations and state approvals.InterNACHI's free, online Structural Inspection course includes:
16 sections;
many photos and diagrams;
3 quizzes;
65-question final exam (drawn from a larger pool);
instant grading;
a downloadable, printable Certificate of Completion; and
accreditations and state approvals.InterNACHI's free, online Exterior Inspection course includes:
43 sections;
54,286 words;
135 photos, graphics, and diagrams;
3 tables;
18 quizzes;
a 60-question final exam (drawn from a larger pool);
instant grading;
a downloadable, printable Certificate of Completion; and
accreditations and state approvals. InterNACHI's free, online How to Inspect the Attic, Insulation, Ventilation and Interior course includes:
33 sections;
over 40,000 words;
50 photos, graphics, and diagrams;
10 tables;
12 quizzes;
a 60-question final exam (drawn from a larger pool);
instant grading;
a downloadable, printable Certificate of Completion; and
accreditations and state approvals. InterNACHI's free, online Deck Inspections course includes:
35 sections;
80 photos, diagrams and custom graphics;
5 quizzes;
a 25-question final exam (drawn from a larger pool);
instant grading;
a downloadable, printable Certificate of Completion; and
accreditations and state approvals.InterNACHI's free, online Moisture Intrusion Inspection course includes:
43 sections (31,000 words);
140 photos and diagrams;
5 quizzes;
50-question final exam (drawn from a larger pool);
instant grading;
a downloadable, printable Certificate of Completion; and
accreditations and state approvals.InterNACHI's free, online Green Building course includes:
55 sections;
many photos and diagrams;
54 quizzes;
100-question final exam (drawn from a larger pool);
instant grading;
a downloadable, printable Certificate of Completion; and
accreditations and state approvals.InterNACHI's free, online Wood-Destroying Organism Inspection course includes:
30 sections;
131 photos and diagrams;
19 quizzes;
100-question final exam (drawn from a larger pool);
instant grading;
a downloadable, printable Certificate of Completion; and
accreditations and state approvals.InterNACHI's free, online Mold Inspection course includes:
30 sections;
hundreds of photos and diagrams;
11 quizzes;
a 120-question final exam (drawn from a larger pool);
instant grading;
a downloadable, printable Certificate of Completion; and
accreditations and state approvals.InterNACHI's free, online Inspecting Foundation Walls and Piers course includes:
37 sections;
many photos and diagrams;
a 25-question final exam (drawn from a larger pool);
instant grading;
a downloadable, printable Certificate of Completion; and
accreditations and state approvals.InterNACHI's free, online Log Home Inspection course includes:
73 sections (240 pages long);
many photos and diagrams;
100-question final exam (drawn from a larger pool);
instant grading;
a downloadable, printable Certificate of Completion; and
accreditations and state approvals.InterNACHI's free, online Radon Measurement Service Provider course includes:
20 sections;
216 photos and diagrams;
7 quizzes;
100-question final exam (drawn from a larger pool);
instant grading;
a downloadable, printable Certificate of Completion; and
accreditations and state approvals.InterNACHI's free, online Commercial Inspection Prerequisite course includes:
32 sections;
49 quizzes;
20-question final exam (drawn from a larger pool);
instant grading;
a downloadable, printable Certificate of Completion; and
accreditations and state approvals.Fluff? Really? Fluff?

And since we are on the topic of education Tom Edwards, I'm sorry to inform you that you are being sent back to remedial anti-InterNACHI propaganda summer school in June. LOL :)

Tom Edwards
12-29-2009, 08:30 AM
That is correct. There is no extra charge to members for their certification. It is included in their membership fee. But I don't know what you mean by These are very large, approved and accredited inspection courses with numerous quizzes and lengthy exams. (http://www.nachi.org/membership.htm) Can you explain?


Thank you!
Your association, alone, issues CERTIFICATION, with cute emblems I might add, to all members who achieve a passing score on an UNPROCTORED, ONLINE EXAM, with the accompanying fee, of course.
There is no other entity, be it a regulatory board or professional association that provides such a low threshold for the awarding of "CERTIFIED" to the submitting parties. Regulatory boards issue licenses but they do not award CERTIFICATIONS to the licensees. Other associations may also place a certification award on their members after certain achievements but, at least one association, requires that the applicant present themselves to a proctor, provide verifiable identification and take an exam in the presence of a proctor. Gosh. I know that sounds really hard but that's how its done in the real world. Just ask those professionals who have earned their certification in that manner. Anything less is simply laughable and a disgrace to this industry.

I don't have an opinion regarding your supplemental courses and quizzes, Lisa. I'm only concerned about the travesty of issueing CERTIFICATION to applicants in such a manner that there are numerous pets around this nation with CERTIFICATION awards from your organization. If you were serious about the VALUE of your CERTIFICATE you would be concerned about the process that leads to that travesty. In truth, its only about the money that can be taken from the truly desparate.

This industry is in its infancy as yet. Some day we will look back on how inspectors "earned" certification by taking an unproctored exam online and wonder how anyone could be so gullible to accept it as evidence of competence. Not to say that any other manner of licensing by the states is at the level that it should be but it is head and shoulders above the method of CERTIFICATION in question.

Did you know that it was once possible to become an Medical Doctor by successfully achieving a passing grade from a correspondence school up through the early 20th century in this country? One successful student was from the Asheville, NC area around the 1920's. Although North Carolina had no provision for licensing such candidates Nebraska was still accepting correspondence school students in that era. The fledgling AMA, along with state governments, were able to force the reckless "doctor and surgeon" to Texas and then across the border to Mexico where he continued to practice. Although he had earned millions, and this continued during the Depression years, from his "surgical practice". He bought a radio station in Mexico to continue his campaign against those mean bureaucrats and medical practioners. (Doctors who had actually been trained in medical schools and taken proctored exams.) He died pennyless years later. Consider all the people, men and their families, harmed during his practicing years. Finally, Nebraska closed the door on that foolishness.

Wonder why people ever questioned the value of a surgeon who had been awarded his degree from a correspondence school?
If it is good enough for a Home Inspector on whom buyers place their financial trust why wouldn't it be acceptable for other professions as I've illustrated in this post and others earlier?
The answer: because the public hasn't demanded it yet. Eventually, they will. It will take generations to occur but it will happen. Meanwhile, you can continue to "soak it up" just like the old medical correspondence schools. If you take any pride in what you do I can find no virtue in it.

Continuing the story.....
This same doctor performed thousands of surgeries to restore sexual potentsy in his patients by replacing non-functioning testicals with replacements from a goat. Many of his patients claimed they were cured. Others subsequently died from infections. If you don't see a parallel in this I rest my case for the jury.

Tom Edwards
12-29-2009, 08:39 AM
And since we are on the topic of education Tom Edwards, I'm sorry to inform you that you are being sent back to remedial anti-InterNACHI propaganda summer school in June. LOL :)


It is clear that you are not taking this discussion seriously.
I'm through.
Enjoy the fruits of your deceptive labors.
I can only point out the fault. I have not the power to correct it.

Lisa Endza
12-29-2009, 08:55 AM
Tom Edwards, you harm consumers with your argument against online training, quizzes and exams. And because much of an inspection report includes safety issues, the harm may be physical, instead of merely financial. In some cases, the harm may result in the actual death of either the inspector or the consumer.

InterNACHI's free online and online video courses are perfect for educating and improving the competence of home inspectors and providing options for their primary and Continuing Education. Advantages over classroom courses include:

Cost of Course: Online courses are inexpensive or free. Dollar for dollar, an inspector can complete many online courses for the same cost as a single classroom course. The more education an inspector has, the better served his/her clients (consumers) are. Compared to online courses, classroom courses harm consumers by exhausting the Continuing Education budgets of inspectors faster than online courses.

Cost of Travel: There are no travel or hotel costs associated with online courses. By contrast, relevant classroom courses, which are few and far between, cause the inspector to incur out-of-pocket travel and accommodation costs. Again, the more education an inspector has, the better served his/her clients (consumers) are. Compared to online courses, classroom courses harm consumers by exhausting the Continuing Education budgets of inspectors faster than online courses.

Cost of Lost Work: An inspector need not take off work to complete online courses. Online courses can be taken at night, on the weekends, or whenever an inspector doesn’t have any inspections scheduled. By contrast, classroom courses are often offered only during the day and require the inspector to suffer lost business. Again, the more education an inspector has, the better served his/her clients (consumers) are. Compared to online courses, classroom courses harm consumers by exhausting the Continuing Education budgets of inspectors faster than online courses.

Cost Advantage to Consumers: Online inspection courses are simply more affordable to inspectors. With reduced course costs come an increase in the number of courses an inspector can afford to complete each year, with a corresponding rise in the level of inspector competence. Increasing the level of inspector competence is a direct benefit to consumers. Lower-cost education also gives inspectors the opportunity to pass on savings to consumers. Compared to online courses, classroom courses harm consumers by delaying the inspector's professional progress.

Accessibility: Online courses are available all the time, anytime, from anywhere. By contrast, classroom courses for the inspection industry are few and far between. Compared to online courses, classroom courses harm consumers by limiting access to education for inspectors.

Collaboration in Development: Online course development often includes collaboration among many experts and inspectors from around the world. For example, it is not unusual for InterNACHI’s online courses (http://www.nachi.org/education.htm) to be the product of dozens of contributors. Compared to online courses, classroom courses harm consumers by often lacking in international collaborative development.

Expert Instruction: Online course developers can hire many experts to contribute to each course. Often in online video courses, the instruction is presented by one or more renowned experts. By contrast, classroom instructors, though perhaps competent to teach about a particular subject, are rarely international experts. Compared to online courses, classroom courses harm consumers by denying renowned expertise instruction to inspectors.

Number of Instructors: Online courses often utilize more than one instructor with more than one area of expertise. By contrast, most classroom courses are taught by one instructor. Compared to online courses, classroom courses harm consumers by limiting the number of expert instructors per course.

Accuracy: Online courses are reviewed for accuracy before being released. Online courses are also subjected to industry-wide peer review forever. By contrast, classroom instruction is rarely reviewed by anyone. The author of this article personally knows of a physics professor who had been teaching the use of an incorrect formula for over 30 years before the error was ever caught. Compared to online courses, classroom courses harm consumers by failing to correct misinformation given to inspectors in a timely fashion.

Current Course Material: Downloadable, printable online course material is reviewed, edited and improved over time. By contrast, classroom texts are less frequently updated. Compared to online courses, classroom courses harm consumers by being less able to provide inspectors with current course material.

Pictures and Video: Online courses contain pictures and on-location video that permit the inspector to virtually accompany the instructors on inspections of many actual structures and components. By contrast, classroom courses can’t take inspectors into crawlspaces or on roofs. Compared to online courses, classroom courses harm consumers by failing to provide inspectors with virtual, real-situation training.

Pace: Online courses move at each inspector’s desired pace. Online courses can be stopped and re-started. Online video can be paused. By contrast, classroom courses move at only the instructor’s speed. Compared to online courses, classroom courses harm consumers by being unable to teach at each inspector’s own pace.

Wasted Time: Online courses are edited to cut out set-up time, off-topic discussions, bathroom breaks, lunch time, etc. By contrast, classroom courses contain much wasted time. Compared to online courses, classroom courses harm consumers by diluting the training time with things that don't increase inspector competence.

Schedule: Online courses are available when each inspector wants to take them. By contrast, classroom courses have inflexible schedules that require inspectors to attend when it is inconvenient, when the inspector is ill, when the inspector is tired, etc. Compared to online courses, classroom courses harm consumers by forcing inspectors to study and learn at a preset schedule.

Quizzes and Exams: Online courses contain numerous short quizzes that assure the inspector has learned each section before moving on to the next. These quizzes are graded instantly, and often alert the inspector to incorrect answers immediately. Some even have built-in intelligence which recognizes each inspector’s unique areas of weakness, and reviews those areas until the inspector grasps them. Classroom courses typically have fewer quizzes, without instant grading. Compared to online courses, classroom courses harm consumers by being less diligent about assuring that each inspector has learned every concept being taught.

Review: Online courses permit inspectors to go back and review areas of weakness. For example, InterNACHI’s online video courses (http://www.nachi.org/education.htm) permit the inspector to rewind and replay them over and over. By contrast, classroom material is typically covered only once. Compared to online courses, classroom courses harm consumers by being unable to allow inspectors go back and repeat material to strengthen his/her particular areas of weakness.

Repeat: Online courses permit inspectors to take the course over again. By contrast, classroom courses are typically taken only once. Compared to online courses, classroom courses harm consumers by being all but impossible for inspectors to re-take over and over.

Instant Grading: Online courses contain quizzes and final exams that are graded instantly. Instant grading permits the inspector to be alerted to areas of weakness while still engaged in the course. By contrast, classroom courses typically don’t grade instantly. Compared to online courses, classroom courses harm consumers by being unable to instantly grade each quiz and exam.

Consistent Grading: Online courses and quizzes are graded consistently over time and around the world. By contrast, classroom courses grade easier or harder, depending on where and when the inspector takes each course. Compared to online courses, classroom courses harm consumers by being unable to grade inspectors consistently.

Advanced Courses: It is financially feasible to offer advanced courses online. An online course need only be developed once, yet can run for years. By contrast, classroom courses usually must be of an introductory nature to attract enough students to pay for an instructor each time it is offered. Compared to online courses, classroom courses harm consumers by being unable to financially sustain advanced course offerings.

Specialty Courses: It is financially feasible to offer specialty courses online. An online course need only be developed once, yet can run for years. By contrast, classroom courses usually must have a common enough appeal of subject matter in order to attract enough students to pay for an instructor each time it is offered. Compared to online courses, classroom courses harm consumers by being unable to financially sustain specialty course offerings.

Choice: Online courses offer inspectors a wide variety of choices in both level and subject matter. By contrast, classroom courses are fewer and farther between. Compared to online courses, classroom courses harm consumers by being less likely to offer the training inspectors need, when and where they need it.

Communication: Online courses often provide an Internet forum for all current students, graduates, instructors, experts, developers and interested parties from around the world to interact with each other and discuss the course. These course-specific forums provide continuing education to inspectors long after completing the course. Classroom courses harm consumers by rarely providing such widespread, post-course interaction.

Harvard, Yale, and the U.S. Military agree with InterNACHI. InterNACHI's courses are widely accepted, approved, and accredited. Even the U.S. Department of Education agrees with InterNACHI and after a 12-year study released this 93 page report admitting that online education is better than classroom: U.S. Department of Education study showing online courses are better than classroom courses. (http://www.nachi.org/online-beats-classroom.htm)

In summary, InterNACHI's online courses allow inspectors to study and learn at little or no cost, without having to travel or lose business, when and where they want, with well-developed, accurate courses, taught by experts, using updated course material, pictures and video, at their own pace and schedule, with the ability to review and repeat, and with the assurance of full understanding in the topics they choose to increase their competence in.

As for me trying to counter your argument in opposition to online education, quizzes and exams, where you eloquently point out:
This same doctor performed thousands of surgeries to restore sexual potentsy in his patients by replacing non-functioning testicals with replacements from a goat.All I can say is that you'll have to pack your own lunch each day come June, as there is no cafeteria service at the remedial anti-InterNACHI propaganda summer school. :)

Tom Edwards
12-29-2009, 09:17 AM
It is clear that you are not taking this discussion seriously.
I'm through.
Enjoy the fruits of your deceptive labors.
I can only point out the fault. I have not the power to correct it.


I see I must repeat myself for the intellectually challenged.

John Carroll
12-29-2009, 08:55 PM
Quite frankly, the sanctimony of some members here is enough to send me to another certification course of study, one that allowed me to learn the trade at my own pace and review and improve my retention and progress. Nice post Lisa.
That said, there is no substitute for some field trade experience prior to becoming an inspector, all things being even, that experience will prove itself more valuable than classroom learning alone. Some people still don't get that, sadly.:cool:

A.D. Miller
12-30-2009, 04:19 AM
there is no substitute for some field trade experience prior to becoming an inspector

JC: Therein lies the rub. I know of no licensing authority that stipulates residential building trade experience as a prerequisite for licensing HIs. Even if they did, which trade would one choose to the exclusion of the others?

Tom Edwards
12-30-2009, 10:07 AM
I would take her to task (so to speak), but happen to agree with a large amount of the information she is imparting.

In the event that you believe NACHO's online exam experience to be much different than many of the state-required exams, look again. The TACO (read TREC) exam, at least when I took it, was simplistic beyond description. The only difference was that they were not sophisticated enough to put the damned thing online, so to further embarrass me, I was forced to drive 7 hours round trip to participate in the farce in Austin.

Only the simplistic idiots of the world would believe in an omnipotent anti-deity (or deity for that matter). We have met the enemy, and he is us.:D


Mr. Miller.
It seems to me that you have missed the point of my message with Lisa. The core issue is the offering of CERTIFICATION to any candidate who successfully completes an ONLINE, UNPROCTORED QUIZ OR EXAM.
I have highlighted the two issues for your notice.

Taking an exam on a PC or online is certainly acceptable as long as it is carefully (1) PROCTORED and the (2) identification of the examinee is verified.
I hope you will agree that it is much more difficult, and perhaps impossible, to provided for these two crucial factors when an exam or quiz is taken both online and in the comfort of your own home, don't you agree? The fact that certificates have been provided bearing the names of pets rather than humans should be accepted as evidence of this truth.

If we agree on this then we are not far from agreeing that the issuance of any form of CERTIFICATION after completion of an ONLINE, UNPROCTORED exam is absolutely rediculous.
By doing so, the organization that provides such documentation has no desire to (1) verify the identity of the examinee and that the examinee is taking the exam without help from other sources and as a direct result of item #1 (2) that the documentation of CERTIFICATION has any recognizable value, even though there is an ongoing effort by the issuing organization to assign significant value to the CERTIFICATION document for the purpose of gaining favorable placement of the holder in the marketplace.

I hope the progression of logic used in this missive is acceptable to you. I have tried to keep it unencumbered with superfluous issues.

Moving to another of your comments.....

I gather that it is your desire that any LICENSING EXAM required by a state regulatory board be psychometrically analyzed with the intent to test applicants knowledge base at a higher level than is now required. I would agree with you, however, you must understand that they have a legislatively-driven responsibility to use an exam that tests for the "minimum level" of knowledge necessary to perform as a licensee in their respective state. That issue was discussed each time I participated in the construction of the National Home Inspector Exam, which is used by roughly 20 states to license inspectors.
The state's citizens and the members of the legislature require that the regulatory board set the knowledge base required for licensing no higher than they can justify. However, everyone who takes a licensing exam must take it in a PROCTORED ENVIRONMENT WITH POSITIVE IDENTIFICATION.

That very fact makes the licensing exams acceptable. They have verified the identity of the examinee and there is no possibility that the examinee could enlist help from any outside source while taking the exam. Seems like a simple difference, I know. But it is crucial to the argument of CERTIFICATION vs. LICENSING.

Universities, on the other hand, can set their standards for successful graduation at any level and may change them as they wish. They have different rules entirely. We, the public, recognize that graduation from some graduate schools is a much greater achievement than others which might not have set as high a "bar" for successful completion.

As for your comments regarding "simplistic idiots" who believe in a deity, I confess. Like most people I have waffled between belief and disbelief during my years as I approach the age of 61. I feel that my belief in a deity has become bolstered by persons with degrees in astronomical physics, of which I know very little about. Naturalists often state how they can't understand why anyone could believe that our beautiful world "just happened". Astronomical Physics doctorates have ascerted that the margins between the placement of the sun and earth that allows for human life to exist are so small that it seems incomprehensible to them how it "just happened". They have similar observances on the key role that our only moon plays as well as the planets and their placement in our solar system. A mentor once asked me "how many times do you think you would have to toss the individual parts of a wrist watch into the air to allow for them to assemble theirselves into a fully operating time piece upon hitting the floor". I can't fathom how that can happen and I believe the universe in which we live is far more complex than any man-made wrist watch.

We need to remember that Darwin's theory remains unproven, although the scientific community has perpetrated several attempts to scam us with several so-called, man-assembled "discoveries" over the years. Thankfully, each of those were called out for the frauds that they were. There are honest scientists. Just not all.

I share my beliefs with you only because of your comments regarding us "simplistic idiots". I am happy to identified as a believer. I know I am in good company. A majority, though not all, of the signers of the Declaration of Independence were believers in a deity of one nature or another. One only has to look at their preserved letters and public documents to know that.

Lastly, I don't have a problem with your disbelief in a deity. I would hope, for the sake of comity, that you withhold your disdain for those of us with a belief.

Lisa Endza
12-30-2009, 11:22 AM
The large skill set required to do a proper home inspection is so broad that InterNACHI doesn't believe competence can be confirmed by any ONE exam, proctored or not. And issuing certification based on only one, minimum-standard, beginners exam that states use to license newbies fresh out of school is even more ridiculous.

InterNACHI's certification is not exam-based and certainly not SINGLE exam-based. It is education based. And yes, for the overall benefit of consumers everywhere, InterNACHI's approved and accredited inspector education is online and free. (http://www.nachi.org/education.htm)

Bob Elliott
12-30-2009, 02:19 PM
Must say I am amazed by the number of ignorant comments here Lisa.:confused:

You have guys scrambling to minimize the largest association of home inspectors in the universe for offering on line education , as they come to this very site for education every day.

(Duh , I just did a home and can you tell me if it looks right.)

Every single hater (code for jealous) better not ask another question here on this forum as it is online.

You guys come here everyday because you think you might learn something that your do nothing group has not taught you.

Knocking any form of education unless the advise is bad ,makes one a hypocritical , ignorant Moran.

Instead of worrying about what NACHI is doing (yes stealing your business) you should be out either inspecting,marketing,or educating yourself.

To bad none of you haters is learning anything here or anywhere on the internet as you are to dumb to learn unless some instructor taking your money is holding your hand.

First course I suggest is reading 101.

Dan Harris
12-30-2009, 04:06 PM
Must say I am amazed by the number of ignorant comments here Lisa.:confused:

Instead of worrying about what NACHI is doing (yes stealing your business) you should be out either inspecting,marketing,or educating yourself.

First course I suggest is reading 101.

I agree with you Bob. :D

I sure don't understand how anyone here would think nachi is stealing their business, when you go the nachi site, the nacho nicki certified eletes are complaining that ASHI members are stealing business from them.

Of course I still cannot understand why Lisa feels the need to come here and sell her non-stop beginners non verfied crap.
I believe this is where she should practice reading 101, in her own house, instead of non stop selling of usless BS here :D

If what she has to sell was everthing she claimed it to be, every inspector would be begging to be a nacho cetified inspector. Instead nickey is sending here here to beg for $s from us.

Hmmmm. She cannot convince members of her own org how bogus nachos non verified certificiations, and how elemenatry some of the courses she's bragging about are.
If she cannot convince many nacho members, how does she expect to convince non nacho members how great nacho and nachos non verfied certificiations are.?
OH YEA I remember, this board is open to everybody, not censored, and when this topic disclosing the truth about nacho comes up here, it's not deleted here, like it is on the nacho board.

I do have to admit I am applying reading Home Inspection 102. "" If it doesn't look right it's probley not right. """
And common sense 103 ... "IF you think some one is going to give you something for free, your a darn fool"
Logic 101 " If nachos stuff was so good there would not be any reason for Lisa to come here and defend it, or keep trying to shove it down our throats :D

Bob Elliott
12-30-2009, 06:24 PM
I agree with you Bob. :D

I sure don't understand how anyone here would think nachi is stealing their business when you go the nachi site, the nacho nicki certified eletes are complaining that ASHI members are stealing business from them.

Of course I still cannot understand why Lisa feels the need to come here and sell her non-stop beginners non verfied crap.
I believe this is where she should practice reading 101, in her own house, instead of non stop selling of usless BS here :D

If what she has to sell was everthing she claimed it to be, every inspector would be begging to be a nacho cetified inspector. Instead nickey is sending here here to beg for $s from us.

Hmmmm. She cannot convince members of her own org how bogus nachos non verified certificiations, and how elemenatry some of the courses she's bragging about are.
If she cannot convince many nacho members, how does she expect to convince non nacho members how great nacho and nachos non verfied certificiations are.?
OH YEA I remember, this board is open to everybody, not censored, and when this topic disclosing the truth about nacho comes up here, it's not deleted here, like it is on the nacho board.

I do have to admit I am applying reading Home Inspection 102. "" If it doesn't look right it's probley not right. """
And common sense 103 ... "IF you think some one is going to give you something for free, your a darn fool"
Logic 101 If nachos stuff was so good there would not be any reason for Lisa to come here and defend it, or keep trying to shove it down our throats :D

Wow
Lisa came here and answered all questions in a professional manner and the villagers still hold up torches.

I agree she is wasting her time to preach physics in kindergarten.

Well I gotta go back as i am in the middle of the new IRC 2009 prep quiz.
Sorry but only for members.

Steven Turetsky
12-30-2009, 08:41 PM
This thread has bounced in a few directions. I would like to respond to a few issues.

First an formost in my heart is EDI. EDI's reputation is second to none. I have taken both online and classroom courses with EDI, and appreciated both venues.

The online course gave me the oppertunity spend as much time as necessary to absorb and to retain more content... there was so much information. The classroom gave me the oppertunity interact with the instructors and fellow participants. Each of which was an already accomplished inspector or building envelope professional. I had the oppertunity to question, debate, and to learn from other's experiences.

Every instructor, was an expert in their field, and they all connected with the class.

By the way, the final exam for the online course was carefully proctored in a controlled location. It was a respectful experience.

Regardless of the subject, both on line and classroom have pros and cons.

A chef fresh out of cooking school, a mechanic out of technical school... or a Home Inspector out of HI school is not going to start out at the top of their game. Those that have related experience will do better than those who have none. The more diversified the experience, better yet.

What is more important is what one does with the newly aqquired knowledge. Some will continue to grow and get better at what they do, most will fade away, a few will become legends. That is life.

The same goes for the associations. Each has a different flavor. I know some really good inspectors from all of the associations... and then there are some from all of the associations that are either blind, dumb, or experts at writing RE friendly reports.

Scott Patterson
12-31-2009, 09:51 AM
This thread has bounced in a few directions. I would like to respond to a few issues.

First an formost in my heart is EDI. EDI's reputation is second to none. I have taken both online and classroom courses with EDI, and appreciated both venues.

The online course gave me the oppertunity spend as much time as necessary to absorb and to retain more content... there was so much information. The classroom gave me the oppertunity interact with the instructors and fellow participants. Each of which was an already accomplished inspector or building envelope professional. I had the oppertunity to question, debate, and to learn from other's experiences.

Every instructor, was an expert in their field, and they all connected with the class.

By the way, the final exam for the online course was carefully proctored in a controlled location. It was a respectful experience.

Regardless of the subject, both on line and classroom have pros and cons.

A chef fresh out of cooking school, a mechanic out of technical school... or a Home Inspector out of HI school is not going to start out at the top of their game. Those that have related experience will do better than those who have none. The more diversified the experience, better yet.

What is more important is what one does with the newly aqquired knowledge. Some will continue to grow and get better at what they do, most will fade away, a few will become legends. That is life.

The same goes for the associations. Each has a different flavor. I know some really good inspectors from all of the associations... and then there are some from all of the associations that are either blind, dumb, or experts at writing RE friendly reports.

Good post Steven, I agree with you 100%.

A.D. Miller
12-31-2009, 11:10 AM
Taking an exam on a PC or online is certainly acceptable as long as it is carefully (1) PROCTORED and the (2) identification of the examinee is verified.


TE: You mean carefully overseen like the folks who let the bomber on the Northwest/Delta flight, or careful like the people who assured us there were WMD, or detail-oriented like the engineers who sent the first Hubble telescope out in non-functional condition, or what?


I hope you will agree that it is much more difficult, and perhaps impossible, to provided for these two crucial factors when an exam or quiz is taken both online and in the comfort of your own home

TE: While I do agree, I still do not see much difference than allowing, just for one isolated example, ASHI members to keep track of their own CEUs.



If we agree on this then we are not far from agreeing that the issuance of any form of CERTIFICATION after completion of an ONLINE, UNPROCTORED exam is absolutely rediculous.


TE: I would not go that far.



I hope the progression of logic used in this missive is acceptable to you. I have tried to keep it unencumbered with superfluous issues.


TE: Quite the stodgy statement.:D



I gather that it is your desire that any LICENSING EXAM required by a state regulatory board be psychometrically analyzed with the intent to test applicants knowledge base at a higher level than is now required. I would agree with you, however, you must understand that they have a legislatively-driven responsibility to use an exam that tests for the "minimum level" of knowledge necessary to perform as a licensee in their respective state.


TE: Psychometricians and legislators have at least one thing in common: they are both slick, manipulative con artists who have been appointed by the sheep to rape them.


But it is crucial to the argument of CERTIFICATION vs. LICENSING.

TE: Yes, it is. Licensing is a taxation masquerading as the granting of permission to conduct a business. Certification is an attempt to prove or illustrate one's proficiency in a particular skill.


As for your comments regarding "simplistic idiots" who believe in a deity, I confess.

TE: Confess what?



I am happy to identified as a believer.

TE: And, that is your cross to bear, pun intended.


A majority, though not all, of the signers of the Declaration of Independence were believers in a deity of one nature or another.

TE: You obviously have not done your homework on this one.



Lastly, I don't have a problem with your disbelief in a deity. I would hope, for the sake of comity, that you withhold your disdain for those of us with a belief.


TE: I would, except for the fact that the zealousness of the religious man is the bane of civilization.

Tom Edwards
12-31-2009, 12:49 PM
Mr. Miller.

You obviously have contempt for anyone confessing a belief in a deity of any nature. I do not proselytize or preach. I am just as wary of someone who claims no belief as of one who is quick to claim one.
I will, however, point out that the spirit of good will between men originates with a belief that we all are created in the image of our creator and are valued by the creator as a result.
Humanism, which is what generally serves as a moral code for atheists, does not accept that everyone has such value.
Socially liberal movements like the National Socialist Democratic Party (NAZI) which began in the 1920's agrees more with your point of view regarding deism. I wouldn't be proud of that.
There is ample evidence of abuse and torture of humans due to the desires of "the church" as well. Mankind can be just as wrong while wearing the vestiges of a priest as they can swinging a machete.

Regarding my statement of the signers of the Declaration. You have an opportunity to present your proof. I await your answer.

A.D. Miller
12-31-2009, 05:36 PM
Mr. Miller.

You obviously have contempt for anyone confessing a belief in a deity of any nature. I do not proselytize or preach. I am just as wary of someone who claims no belief as of one who is quick to claim one.
I will, however, point out that the spirit of good will between men originates with a belief that we all are created in the image of our creator and are valued by the creator as a result.
Humanism, which is what generally serves as a moral code for atheists, does not accept that everyone has such value.
Socially liberal movements like the National Socialist Democratic Party (NAZI) which began in the 1920's agrees more with your point of view regarding deism. I wouldn't be proud of that.
There is ample evidence of abuse and torture of humans due to the desires of "the church" as well. Mankind can be just as wrong while wearing the vestiges of a priest as they can swinging a machete.

Regarding my statement of the signers of the Declaration. You have an opportunity to present your proof. I await your answer.

TE: I just came off a six-in-a-row short week and it's New Year's Eve. Let's give it a break for a day or two and I promise to continue along the same lines.

HAPPY NEW YEAR!

Joao Vieira
01-28-2010, 03:12 PM
what was this about :confused: :D

A.D. Miller
01-28-2010, 03:14 PM
what was this about :confused: :D

JV: It was about a month ago . . .:rolleyes:

Steven Turetsky
01-28-2010, 04:08 PM
a cold night in December...

Mitchell Toelle
01-29-2010, 04:40 PM
Must say I am amazed by the number of ignorant comments here Lisa.:confused:

You have guys scrambling to minimize the largest association of home inspectors in the universe for offering on line education , as they come to this very site for education every day.

(Duh , I just did a home and can you tell me if it looks right.)

Every single hater (code for jealous) better not ask another question here on this forum as it is online.

You guys come here everyday because you think you might learn something that your do nothing group has not taught you.

Knocking any form of education unless the advise is bad ,makes one a hypocritical , ignorant Moran.

Instead of worrying about what NACHI is doing (yes stealing your business) you should be out either inspecting,marketing,or educating yourself.

To bad none of you haters is learning anything here or anywhere on the internet as you are to dumb to learn unless some instructor taking your money is holding your hand.

First course I suggest is reading 101.

How about writing, spelling, punctuation, grammar and proof reading 101, Bob?