Mueller Services Inc. - Insurance Loss Control Surveys

[Jason Cammelleri]

No Content

[Scott Patterson]

Our reps make an average of $15/hr. based on individual performance.[/SIZE]

Requirements include a computer with high-speed internet, a digital camera, a reliable vehicle, and self-motivation.

$15 an hour? This must be a typo. With gas costing around $4 a gallon and higher in some parts of the country I would hope that you would be paying around $75 to $125 per hour or better. Heck, you can make $15 an hour as a "Tilt-A-Whirl" greaser!

It is time for jobbers like your company to realize that times have changed and expense are not what they were 10 years ago. Insurance field work has historically been low paying and one of the main reasons that experienced inspectors do not do them.

[Jason Cammelleri]

No Content

[David Banks]

Ditto Scott.

[Jerry Peck]

Most people in your field work for us as Independent Contractors to supplement their income by filling in any downtime in their day. In between home inspections is commonly a time used to complete our surveys.


It is time for jobbers like your company to realize that times have changed and expense are not what they were 10 years ago. Insurance field work has historically been low paying and one of the main reasons that experienced inspectors do not do them.

Scott's reply is well worth repeating.

Jason,

It does not matter *what* is being done, when one is responsible for these costs (from your first post) "Requirements include a computer with high-speed internet, a digital camera, a reliable vehicle,", there is an inherent base line cost, which includes *purchasing and owning* the required equipment, to *operating and insuring* the required equipment.

While you may think that "spare time" is *free*, have you ever gone to a "burger place" and asked them to make yours for 15 cents, you know, 'between when they are making others for full price customers'? How many takers have you had? Yet that is what you are asking of us.

[Michael Thomas]

Jason,

I burn around $8 in gas, round trip, to and from a typical inspection, and that's in a urban area, in a 4cyl Subaru.

For $7 an hour, I'd rather be marketing.

And, I'm sure, you are providing insurance to cover my liability if someone disputes my findings.

You're NOT???

[Scott Patterson]

Looks like Jason and Mueller Services, Inc., can't take the heat in this discussion. Just delete and it will go away! :D

[Andrew Haslett]

I know some time has passed since most of this discussion transpired.

I will chime in that nothing has changed since last year.

And Muellers isn't the only company.

I got a call from a company the other day that wanted me to do a commercial inspection on a large warehouse / logistics building: three page report format, 28 pictures minimum.

They did offer $125.

But, the administrative time for the inspection -- download, upload 28 photos, complete the form, upload data -- that is probably 1 hour.

Then, allow 1 hour or more just trying to contact the correct person to coordinate access to the property -- contact information is never current.

Then, allow at least a half-day to walk the 250,000 SF or larger facility.

Hmmmm.... 6 hours, computer, digital camera, vehicle ....

Scott and others: thank you for the discussion.

[Scott Patterson]

I know some time has passed since most of this discussion transpired.

I will chime in that nothing has changed since last year.

And Muellers isn't the only company.

I got a call from a company the other day that wanted me to do a commercial inspection on a large warehouse / logistics building: three page report format, 28 pictures minimum.

They did offer $125.

But, the administrative time for the inspection -- download, upload 28 photos, complete the form, upload data -- that is probably 1 hour.

Then, allow 1 hour or more just trying to contact the correct person to coordinate access to the property -- contact information is never current.

Then, allow at least a half-day to walk the 250,000 SF or larger facility.

Hmmmm.... 6 hours, computer, digital camera, vehicle ....

Scott and others: thank you for the discussion.

I had a call last week from a well known "Draw Inspection" company, that I have worked with for about 8 years. They needed 6-8 exterior photos, and complete a one page form of a strip shopping center. The town is about 30 miles away from me as the crow flies, with no easy way to get to the town. I told them it would be $150 and they said they could only pay $75 and she would need to get permission to pay that! The young lady said that they could not pay the $150 and that they would need to find someone else to do the inspection.

I hope that the jobbers are learning that they need to charge their clients more than what they are doing. The sad thing is that they will always find some poor hungry schmuck to do the work.

[Dom D'Agostino]

The sad thing is that they will always find some poor hungry schmuck to do the work.


Scott:
Remember that statement the next time you shop (for example, at Walmart...); "price" rules our economy--always has, & always will.

Dom.

[Jerry Peck]

I had a call last week from a well known "Draw Inspection" company, that I have worked with for about 8 years. They needed 6-8 exterior photos, and complete a one page form of a strip shopping center. The town is about 30 miles away from me as the crow flies, with no easy way to get to the town. I told them it would be $150 and they said they could only pay $75 and she would need to get permission to pay that! The young lady said that they could not pay the $150 and that they would need to find someone else to do the inspection.

I hope that the jobbers are learning that they need to charge their clients more than what they are doing. The sad thing is that they will always find some poor hungry schmuck to do the work.


Scott,

Years ago I had the same thing happen with a different outcome.

They were only going to pay $75 per inspection, and I told them I could not leave the office for less than $300. She called back a few days later and said they could go to $150, I reminded her that I could not leave the office for less that $300. She call a few days later and said $300 per inspection would be okay, they got permission to pay that. Some of the inspections were 80 miles one way, others were basically around the corner, so that was a fair average for those inspections. Even at that price I did not make any real money ... I cannot see anyone being able to do those inspections for the prices those places offer to pay.

I did those bank draw inspections for them for about 4-5 years or so until I retired and moved, I went all over Miami-Dade and Broward counties, $300 per inspection, and received prompt payment.

[A.D. Miller]

My Rule: Never work for insurance companies. Period.

[Nick Roper]

Scott,

Years ago I had the same thing happen with a different outcome.

They were only going to pay $75 per inspection, and I told them I could not leave the office for less than $300. She called back a few days later and said they could go to $150, I reminded her that I could not leave the office for less that $300. She call a few days later and said $300 per inspection would be okay, they got permission to pay that. Some of the inspections were 80 miles one way, others were basically around the corner, so that was a fair average for those inspections. Even at that price I did not make any real money ... I cannot see anyone being able to do those inspections for the prices those places offer to pay.

I did those bank draw inspections for them for about 4-5 years or so until I retired and moved, I went all over Miami-Dade and Broward counties, $300 per inspection, and received prompt payment.



I Know this thread is pretty old but I work for them presently. You're saying they paid you $300 for a full commercial 4-5 yrs ago? You wouldn't believe what they're paying me. I would be estatic for $80. I guess it's time to ask for more money?

[Scott Patterson]

I Know this thread is pretty old but I work for them presently. You're saying they paid you $300 for a full commercial 4-5 yrs ago? You wouldn't believe what they're paying me. I would be estatic for $80. I guess it's time to ask for more money?

Most lenders will pay $275-$400 for a "typical" commercial draw without any argument. The fee is based on the location, loan amount, size and scope of the property. Keep in mind that the lender is not paying the fee, the person that has the loan does. You just get the check from the lender.

I just finished a commercial project that lasted 18 months. I was on site about every 3-4 weeks. I took about 20 photos per visit, spent about 20 minutes on site and another 30 minutes doing the report/paperwork. It is good work if you can get it.

Residential (local) you can typically get $50 to $100 per visit, depending on the size of the home. Your time on-site is around 5-10 minutes...
Deal with the local lenders and you will make more money......

[Nick Roper]

Sorry for the delayed response. I forgot my password and they locked me out. Anyway I am new to this type of work. I statrted with them in August with no experience. They trained me and I believe I have learned an awful lot in the past few months. I think when I do a commercial they have someone with your type of crudentials and or experience look it over and add and adjust to what the company wants. I'm doing most of the footwork and the majority of the reposrt though. I would love to know what they're getting paid for me doing the work. It makes me wonder if I'm the person you guys are talking about in earlier posts. :D

[Jason Klein]

Well, folks...I've taken Mueller's bait, with a grain of salt. I'm going to try being a home inspector for them. Hopefully it'll be a great experience for me!

Talking about some mixed comments on this thread. If it works out, and I'm making more than my $8500/yr dishwashing job, awesome...if not, well, you told me so! :p

[K Mangum]

I began working for Mueller in November of 2010 after replying to an ad in our local paper. I went through online training in about 3 weeks and was immediately inundated with a tremendous amount of work. I worked steadily until May of 2010 and then gave notice. I was encouraged to stay on and agreed to do only Exterior surveys and Occupancy Verifications. After a few months they practically begged me to pick up some more work as they had no other field reps in my area.

I think I knew what I was getting into but have found the pay to be very low. I was told that I would only do my county with "occasional" forays into adjacent counties. That has not been the case. Although compensation is adjusted slightly for increased mileage, it is by no means adequate. Mueller has a convoluted system for fee adjustments based on the amount of work you have done for the week. Their goal is for you to make $13.00 hour and make sure they are in compliance with the wage and hour people.

An Occupancy Verification pays $6.00 - no mileage. Unless you are surveying the house next door, there is no way one can be completed in less than 30 minutes. Once you have driven and taken the pictures, you must then upload your pictures on the computer and submit your report. An Exterior with a diagram pays $13 - no mileage. Again, you must drive to case, upload photos and then submit a computer generated sketch. Efficiency is the key - you must try to coordinate your surveys so that you can make the most efficient use of your time. This is not always easy as cases are assigned twice a week and have different due dates. Example - you may plan to do five cases in an outlying neighborhood today and then tomorrow be assigned an additional case in that area. Interior surveys pay $26. They require setting up an appt with the homeowner which is often difficult and requires a great deal of time on the telephone.

Mueller has several clients in my area. The bulk of the work is for one particular insurance company. This company has a great deal of low income policyholders and I have spent a lot of time in some very undesirable neighborhoods, in some very undesirable homes.

Earlier this year, this particular company required that all uploaded photos be labeled. Again, this added more time to the survey process. There was no increase in compensation.

All of one's work is reviewed by QA - Quality Assurance. They will return your work in a heartbeat for any number of reasons - forgot to label a photograph, skipped a question on the input form, etc. Even if 90% of your work is perfect, never will you hear a positive comment.

Each field rep answers to a "manager." All questions and concerns are to be directed to your manager. I generally correspond with email - my manager usually responds within 6-8 hours (business hours only). I have tried to call a number of times with urgent questions but have never had a phone call returned.

Again, I knew what I was getting into and the flexibility to work my own hours is important to me at this time. However, I do think that their pay scale is woefully out of line given the time component involved. You will get NO positive reinforcement from them no matter how well you do your job or how willing you are to accept a job outside of your territory. Perhaps this is why they are having trouble recruiting and keeping qualified field reps.

I currently have an outstanding compensation issue with them concerning a day of travel. I trust that they will do the right thing and compensate me as as agreed.

[Diana Lipinski]

I began working for Mueller in November of 2010 after replying to an ad in our local paper. I went through online training in about 3 weeks and was immediately inundated with a tremendous amount of work. I worked steadily until May of 2010 and then gave notice. I was encouraged to stay on and agreed to do only Exterior surveys and Occupancy Verifications. After a few months they practically begged me to pick up some more work as they had no other field reps in my area.

I think I knew what I was getting into but have found the pay to be very low. I was told that I would only do my county with "occasional" forays into adjacent counties. That has not been the case. Although compensation is adjusted slightly for increased mileage, it is by no means adequate. Mueller has a convoluted system for fee adjustments based on the amount of work you have done for the week. Their goal is for you to make $13.00 hour and make sure they are in compliance with the wage and hour people.

An Occupancy Verification pays $6.00 - no mileage. Unless you are surveying the house next door, there is no way one can be completed in less than 30 minutes. Once you have driven and taken the pictures, you must then upload your pictures on the computer and submit your report. An Exterior with a diagram pays $13 - no mileage. Again, you must drive to case, upload photos and then submit a computer generated sketch. Efficiency is the key - you must try to coordinate your surveys so that you can make the most efficient use of your time. This is not always easy as cases are assigned twice a week and have different due dates. Example - you may plan to do five cases in an outlying neighborhood today and then tomorrow be assigned an additional case in that area. Interior surveys pay $26. They require setting up an appt with the homeowner which is often difficult and requires a great deal of time on the telephone.

Mueller has several clients in my area. The bulk of the work is for one particular insurance company. This company has a great deal of low income policyholders and I have spent a lot of time in some very undesirable neighborhoods, in some very undesirable homes.

Earlier this year, this particular company required that all uploaded photos be labeled. Again, this added more time to the survey process. There was no increase in compensation.

All of one's work is reviewed by QA - Quality Assurance. They will return your work in a heartbeat for any number of reasons - forgot to label a photograph, skipped a question on the input form, etc. Even if 90% of your work is perfect, never will you hear a positive comment.

Each field rep answers to a "manager." All questions and concerns are to be directed to your manager. I generally correspond with email - my manager usually responds within 6-8 hours (business hours only). I have tried to call a number of times with urgent questions but have never had a phone call returned.

Again, I knew what I was getting into and the flexibility to work my own hours is important to me at this time. However, I do think that their pay scale is woefully out of line given the time component involved. You will get NO positive reinforcement from them no matter how well you do your job or how willing you are to accept a job outside of your territory. Perhaps this is why they are having trouble recruiting and keeping qualified field reps.

I currently have an outstanding compensation issue with them concerning a day of travel. I trust that they will do the right thing and compensate me as as agreed.


I just appied to this company....I'm worring if I done the right thing???? I'm thinking of quiting a $12 hour job for this....however the treatment I recieve from my job now is AWFUL.....

[K Mangum]

If you are expecting $13/hour and to get 40 hours of work per week, do not take the position. On a really good week, I MIGHT make $225.00. Often I make less than $100. As I said earlier, right now it works for me because I have a number of other obligations that I have to work around. When they hired me, they told me I would average 15-20 hours a week. That is somewhat misleading as the weeks that I made the most, I also drove the most, so I was covering my gas out of that total.
I am happy to answer any questions you might have. I don't know where you live, but I think that the pay scale varies by where you live. I will tell you that they will not tell you in advance (before you are hired) how much you will get paid for the different cases. They will only tell you that you will "average" a particular dollar amount per hour.

[Scott Patterson]

I just appied to this company....I'm worring if I done the right thing???? I'm thinking of quiting a $12 hour job for this....however the treatment I recieve from my job now is AWFUL.....

If you plan on making a living just doing this type of work you will be in the poor house in short order. Service work like what is in this tread is not going to make you enough money to live on.

At $13 an hour or whatever it works out to be does not take into consideration fuel cost, travel time, reporting time, etc.....

My suggestion is to go and flip burgers instead of doing service work that does not pay enough!

[Kristi Silber]

I started at Mueller a few weeks ago, with construction experience but little else. It's especially tough at the beginning to make any money - just learning what the different insurance companies want and getting used to their forms takes time. With nothing but two weeks of online training the switch to the real world is brutal, especially because your one tenuous human link to the company is 1000 miles away and has 80 other field reps to deal with. I'm sure it becomes more routine with time, but at the moment just estimating the year the plumbing was last renovated is a shot in the dark. Sometimes it would be nice to talk to another field rep just to vent my frustration.

That said, it's an interesting job in that I get to go in a lot of houses, some quite nice and old, and there are all kinds of oddities to see and things to learn about. It's good experience if I want to go into home inspection. But a lot of work for little pay (my weekly pay is supposed to be adjusted to $12/hour, but so far that has not happened and it's about $10.50 if I deduct mileage) and that's just one reason they have such a high turnover.

(K Mangum - isn't labeling photos a pain? I have 3 companies that want labels.)

[Joseph Dalessio]

I also started working for them a little while back (not too recently, but haven't been here all that long). I also agree that the pay is not great - the amount paid certainly doesn't seem to correlate to the amount of work done. Commercials are a prime example of a LOT of work for very little pay - sometimes they are rather large places, and it takes a lot of time just to walk through, let alone get pictures, measurements, interview questions, and making sure you don't miss anything.

Scott - $50 for a residential report would be amazing - I get paid half that for a complete interior walk through. How does one go about making that sort of move (from a company such as this one, to something that pays a bit better)?

Kristi - feel free to vent :) Private messages would probably be best!

[Jason Ganly]

This thread is really interesting... I just submitted my app and now I am doing the assessment test.

Did they pay you guys while training? If so how much?

[Kristi Silber]

I got $13/hr during training. They say about 2/3 of those who start training get through it and are actually hired. There's a lot of stuff to remember, but at least it's (mostly) interesting. I think they've changed it a bit since I went through it. I was told it would be about 30 hours, but if you take less time (I did it in about 20-25 hrs) you're more likely to be hired. Good luck!

"(my weekly pay is supposed to be adjusted to $12/hour, ...)"
This was not actually the case - I misunderstood my manager.

[Mueller Employee X]

Hello,
A lot of this stuff is true, but a lot of it is based on region. The more densely populated regions have higher volume, and those field inspectors make SIGNIFICANTLY more work. They hold onto field inspectors in certain areas just to cover their work load to make sure time requirements are met for certain insurance companies. Training is fairly detailed, and can be over-whelming for some people, but if you are smart, there are ways to get around stuff and make the job "work for you". Also, throughout this feed, people have raised the question about cost of materials type topic..Some cheaper equipment is sufficient, and a lot of it can be used as write-offs (You are not expected to run out and buy a computer JUST for this job, and not expected to run out and spend $500 on an Ashton Kucher Nikon camera. There are other things to pick up as time goes by and experience occurs (sentence may not be accurate :) ).
When you start the job sucks, and it feels like it's a waste of time, but in some cases, once you "get your feet wet" things start to look better.

[Robin Frehner]

Just for the record. I love my Mueller job. Yes, it takes up a lot of time but there is no shortage of entertainment. Policyholder's are interesting...to say the least, sometimes difficult. I've been with them for several month now getting more work, more money and much less rejected cases from Q.A. It'd be nice to get $300 per inspection, but money isn't a driving force (for me personally). What they pay will do for now and at least I'm NOT flipping burgers. My only complaint is the incredible old operating online system. Getting your cases in isn't always easy, but every job has it's glitches and sometimes you just have to kick back and punt. If you are applying for this job, patience is key either you have it or you're willing to improve on it. It took me 3 months to work up to a full time wage, but if you've been unemployed for a while, what do you have to lose?
It's always worth a shot at Mueller, this company is surviving.:)

[Mike Monroe]

Hi,

The question is about the pay. Lets pretend they pay $25 for an inspection. Do they give you mileage on top of that? Or is that built into the $25. If you drive 30 miles each way, I can't figure out how they expect you to not be reimbursed for mileage. Or you do 20 in one day and you put a couple of hundred miles on the car. In other words, what is the total amount I would receive for that one inspection? Trying to figure out if it's worth it.

Mike

[Kristi Silber]

No, mileage is not reimbursed; no expenses are. Unfortunately there's really no way they could do so without FRs abusing it or being really inefficient about the way they go to their cases. However, if the mileage is especially high to a case they will sometimes adjust the fee to account for it. One of the tricks to earning a decent wage is to learn how to be efficient in the driving. Managers usually try to assign groups of cases in fairly close proximity to each other.

I was happy to read Robin's post. I like my job, too, and it's much less frustrating as time goes on. I'm still not making much for the time I work, but for now I'm OK with that. I'm learning a lot, enjoying it and doing a good job rather than rushing through things. I intend to make the quality of my work worth higher fees, which they do give to people who earn it. I'm sure many FRs "get around stuff and make the job 'work for you'" (still wondering just what that means)...depends on your personality I guess.

[Robert Haggerty]

Why has no one mentioned Federal tax deduction for milage ($0.51/mile - 2011)

A common unreimbursed business expense is mileage driven in a personal vehicle as a required part of your job. The IRS does not allow you to deduct mileage to or from your primary place of employment. You can deduct for unreimbursed mileage related to business trips or situations where an employer requires you to drive to multiple job sites. The IRS publishes a standardized mileage rate every year that you can use to claim a deduction for your unreimbursed mileage expense.

Publication 529 (2010), Miscellaneous Deductions (http://www.irs.gov/publications/p529/ar02.html)

The only problem is that these deductions don't do you any good until they come to more than 2 percent of your adjusted gross income, or AGI. That means with an AGI of $30,000, you must have expenses of more than $600 before the expenses are deductible, and then, only the amount over $600 is deductable.

You should also be able to deduct your cellphone use: Can Cellphone Expenses Be Tax Deductible With a Business? - TurboTax® Tax Tips & Videos (http://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tools/tax-tips/Small-Business-Taxes/Can-Cellphone-Expenses-Be-Tax-Deductible-With-a-Business-/INF14203.html), as well as unreimbursed office supplies and possibly your computer and camera.

[Kristi Silber]

Personally, I never mentioned it because the deduction is of minimal significance compared to the expense of fueling and maintaining a car. Mueller automatically deducts mileage from our fees, then gives it back to us as if it were actual mileage compensation, thereby making that part of our check tax-free.

Thank you, Robert, for that first link. I was looking for that sort of information. (Haven't gotten to the second link yet, but thanks for that, too!)

[K Mangum]

I was a little bit surprised about the amount of appointment work that was assigned over Thanksgiving. I ado not like bothering people on holidays and found it very difficult to even find time to call. I was assigned almost 30 interior cases in two weeks. Almost every one of them involved a tenant occupied risk which makes the telephoning and appointment scheduling hard. I requested lots of extensions and my manager was very nice about it.

My manager is new and has been a bit slow to respond. I have two cases that are going to be late because he has yet to answer a question about one and adjust the fee on another. I personally think I should get a response within 24 hours, but since I did not these two will sit all weekend and I will get several evil emails telling me my cases are late!

I have been working here for a year now. I have yet to see an increase in compensation - I am still being paid the same as I was when I was hired.

Just curious - what is everyone's average error percentage? I am always "green" but wondered how my work compares.

[Kristi Silber]

Bummer to have a new manager. I feel like they have a lot on their plate, but still, we should get a quick response to questions, considering the concerns about late reports. My late percentage is 20% right now, which is totally ridiculous; I don't know what numbers they're using, but they aren't right! My error rate is the highest it's ever been, at 23% - again, ridiculous, and demoralizing. My lowest was 15%. I've been there 3 months now, including training.

So, what's your percent?

As far as I can see, the way our compensation is adjusted is apparently when our managers decide to give us a higher fee on some case. Which isn't always that great when it's really just compensating us for close-outs, high mileage, or time-consuming cases (geez, HVs take me a long time!). And we're totally at their mercy, so best stay on their good side!

(That said, I like my manager...happens to be the one who started this thread!)

[K Mangum]

My error percent was about 18% at its worst. What is frustrating is that some of the errors were NOT errors, but QA mistakes. I have not made a fuss about it because I really am old enough not to be on Red Light - Green Light anymore! After a point in time, errors drop off - I have no idea how that works - and your percentage will change.

Since I am frequently asked to go outside of the area I was hired for, I am pretty insistent on being compensated for mileage and extra time. My former manager was very understanding about it; although the extra compensation is minimal. Usually I ask for the fee adjustment and then submit because I was told that NO changes, including compensation amount, can be changed after submission. What has upset me this week is that my manager has not responded and here my case sits, waiting to be turned in, and now late.

It doesn't seem to make sense that you get paid the same for drawing and photographing a 900 SF house that is a basic rectangle and the same amount for a 5000 SF house that has all sorts of crazy angles and a bizarre footprint. I am pretty good with the computer, but sometimes it takes a few tries to get the sketch correct!

Back to the error thing - it would certainly be nice to be told by someone that you were doing a good job, wouldn't it?!

[Barbarito Viera]

I had a companies offering to me $26.00 per inspection out of Chicago and to perform the loss control inspection in Miami, Florida. At present I am looking for work on loss control inspections; if anyone knows anyone in Miami hiring please shoot me a comment.
Thanks.

[M Newman]

Hi Guys and Gals,

Just signed up to see what others thought of Mueller. Thanks for the insight in the posts above. I have an email in the inbox to call for an interview today, and since it's the only one in a couple of months it looks like I'll go after it.

The big question is; Anyone making a reasonable (above poverty line) salary with them?

MN

[TommyV]

I'd like to give it a shot too but I have trouble linking to their aptitute test through the application. I contacted their IT rep but still have trouble. The link routed me back to their homepage. If you did it frpm their website, how did you do it?

[Kristi Silber]

It takes a while to get efficient enough to make what they advertise at (which was $13 here, anyway). And how quickly that happens depends on your background and personal style and ability. I've been working for Mueller for 3 months, and still feel like it's a new job sometimes, but my "hourly" wage has gone up, as they said it would. Still not making $13/hr every week, but that's partly because I'm happy for now taking my time and learning as much as I can in the process. I believe Mueller does appreciate and wants to retain good, thorough FRs (field reps), and the effort is rewarded through occasional increased fees for individual surveys. (I'm sure there are also those, like Mueller Employee X, who learn "ways to get around stuff and make the job 'work for you'", but I'm not one of them.)

Although it is certainly frustrating at first, and time consuming, I like my job and my manager. You have to be self-motivated, detail-oriented, willing to tromp through people's yards uninvited (even in bad neighborhoods)...and you can't expect a lot of good feedback. Being polite and personable helps, too, when it comes to making appointments and getting the most info out of the homeowner you can.

Tommy - when I did my aptitude assessment it was sent to me via email. I'm not sure where on the site you are looking, but you have to be hired before you can access most of it. Or, at least that's the way it was when I started; maybe it's different now. They have changed some things since I started, including some of the training. If you have a contact in HR, ask them about it...or call and ask to be connected to HR.

As for above poverty line salary, it must be remembered that this is a part-time job, not a salaried position. To a large extent how much you make is dependent on how much you're willing to put into it, but there is a limit to how many cases they have to give you. I've never run out of cases, and when I request more I get them, but that may depend on where you are. I don't really know. At any rate, don't expect to make $13/hr right away. For the first couple months I averaged about $10/hr.

Hope this helps!

[M Newman]

Tommy, the aptitude test was linked at the end of the first online employment application for me and I did it right away. You should be able to get to it in the confirmation email they send back to you and when you get access to your dashboard.

Thanks Kristi, $10 is what they told me for the training period and "more" when I start "collecting data"... half of what I usually made :(

Has anyone been trained by them for Wind Mitigation?

[Kristi Silber]

Now I'm curious about the training. I know they've made some changes to the program. How long did they say the training period would be? I got $13/hr for training, which lasted 2 weeks. I'm actually writing a letter to them regarding some of the material.

Does the normal training include high value surveys?

So the aptitude test is now online? I had to print a hard copy and fax it in.

I haven't been trained in wind mitigation, or any of the extras.

[Bob InNE]

I've worked for Mueller for 2 years now. All of what has been written is true. Here's my thoughts after 2 years:
The pay is low. But the work is not hard. I've been making around $350 per week (take home with mileage allowances). Every now and then I earn $500, or $100 if cases are slow or weather is bad. Dont expect a raise, you wont be getting one.
I'm fairly confident that Mueller doesn't want you talking to each other, lest you unionize. It will only be by luck that you ever meet another rep.
I think as long as you get your work done, and are not a "problem" new cases will flow into you in box. Your manager is swamped, keep a low profile and be eager to do work. Dont be a sweaky wheel.

Mileage: Schedule appointments first. I do that on Mondays and Thursdays. Remember, 2 call to the PH & 1 to the agent and you can close out. Close out the non-replies asap.
Next, print out all your exteriors and sort them by area/zip codes. I use google maps to make a route every morning. I try to make a big circle to save on gas.

QA: Don't worry about stats, as long as you are green, your manager doesn't care.
Late case don't count against you if you ask for extensions. Your manager can usually give you 2 weeks, no questions asked.
Don't question or debate QA. Just fix it and move on.

[Jerry Sanders]

There is a link to the apptitude test on the first page of the application you filled out. It is about middle of that page and you do it on line.

I did the test and phone interview today.

i read all the post on this thread and believe there are a few more threads re Muellers.

I am retired, bored, and need something to do.

Will give it a whirl if hired.

[Bob InNE]

If you're retired or a student, it's a pretty good job. You can work from home, choose your own hours.
If you're young and thinking this a pretty good job at $10-15 per hour, think again. It tends to be seasonal (Jan-Feb are very slow). Consider taking the job and also signing up for University of Phoenix to train for some much better, future job. ;)

[Garry Sorrells]

It is interesting that the OP member has removed his content. Guess he became worried as to repercussions for speaking out of school with out permission.

Hope that OP member doesn't catch any flack. Companies can get paranoid at times.

The posts seem to be truthful and actually fairly positive about the company. Relatively speaking good PR.

[Mueller Fieldrep]

Hey Guys,
I have read through the responses and have a few pieces of information to provide. First, you can make a living wage working with Mueller. I average about $20-22 per hour. Before you say it isn't possible, I will tell you how I can do it. First, I only work in the field 3 days, I try for two and I will only add a fourth day if there is no other option.

You can't let the policyholder dictate the date and time of the survey. They will always want to have you come over on saturday afternoon or after five during the week. I give the PH two options, if that doesn't work I will go to the next week. If they can't or won't accomodate me, I close out the case. Yes, sometimes I have a bunch of closeouts but it has never been mentioned to me so I assume it isn't a problem. Don't waste time on cases with no response. I had a case this week where I had two numbers from the company. Both were out of service. The agent had 2 more numbers, both out of service. No info online. It took me 7 minutes and the case was sent back

You need to convince your manager to give you alot of cases at once. My manager is very good about this and it makes my job much easier. The mindset at Mueller (and managers make it so) is that the field rep doesn't know when more cases are coming or how many. Today, I already have my schedule for next week. Cases I received this week have alredy been called and fit into the cases I already had scheduled. From other reps that I have spoken with, they try to get all thier cases done asap. Extensions are your friend.

Another issue I have found it that QA wants no extra information. The customer wants no extra information. If it's not on the sheet, don't bother with it.

You need to use some type of mapping software. Not google or mapquest. The Mueller website supports MS Streets and trips. Ask your manager about it. I bought mine for $16 on amazon. I agree, we shouldn't have to buy our own software but thats the way it is. You will make the money back in 2 days on the gas you will save. It lets you optimize your route and customize your route to avoid areas with heavy traffic or areas you know will take extra time.

When you print your cases, print only the 1st sheet. Take a copy of the entire report and get them made at kinkos or somewhere similar. You will save a ton over buying your own ink and paper. I had 200 made yesterday. If you do print your own, change the font to a smaller size to save paper and fit everything on less pages. Take your pictures in the same order at every home. Don't take any extra pictures. Also, remember the time you spend loading pictures is counted towards your weekly hours. Change the resolution on your camera. Lower resolution means less time uploading. Start uploading your pictures and go have lunch.

I agree, High Value and commercial cases are a real pain. Unless you can get them done quickly. Use the phone interview to get as much information as you can. If the house was recently sold or purchased, use zillow.com to check it out. Sometimes there will be a pretty extensive description of the home. If the home was recently built, you may be able to get the plans online from the builders website. Sometimes a call to the builder can get you the layout of the home.

Keep a list of all the fire departments you look up. Everytime I look one up I add it to my mapping software. It used to take me a few minutes to find the closest fire service. Now, it literally takes me 10 seconds to find it. I have inspected more than 3000 homes for mueller, I have found 1 home that wasn't within 1000 feet of a hydrant. Unless you are in the middle of nowhere, you can assume it's there.

Ok, here is the info that will probably result in an email for all reps. Most if not all of the experienced reps do it and I am sure mueller is quietly aware. 75% of high values narratives are going to be the same. Hardwood on the first floor, tile kitchen, granite countertops, etc. Save your narratives for future use. It is much easier to change a few words rather then write a paragraph.

Now, having said all of the above, there are a few reasons why this works. My cases are usually within 10 miles of my home. I don't get many USAA cases which are a pain to label. I sometimes have to work in areas that are not the safest. I suggest you get there early, as early as you can get an appointment.

In regards to expenses for work. I usually fill my tank once a week and drive between 150 and 200 miles a week. Its less than my last commute for work. I already had a computer and high speed internet. i would have these things whether I worked for Mueller or not. My wifes company pays for them. I did buy a different camera.

There are pros and cons for every job.

Pros:

You make your own schedule
You work by yourself
You meet new and "interesting" people everyday
Very little interference from management.
If you want a day off, it's yours.

Cons:

Traffic
Very little oversight from Mueller
Lack of training once you are past the online portion.
QA sometimes being ridiculous


After all of the above, I have a few things for Muller managers to consider. I know they read this forum.

Feedback is good. QA is quick to point out our errors. It would be nice if you guys mentioned we are doing a good job.

QA, if you find two errors, why not mention both in the same rejection? I sometimes think you guys are paid based on the number of rejections. Do you get a kick of rejecting a case and then rejecting it a second time?

QA, if QA person number 1 rejects a case, it should go back to person #1.

Some type of garment that identifies us as employees of the company. Maybe Mueller hats for when the weather is bad. I dress rather casually for work, usually dockers and a plain button down shirt. A Mueller shirt would be nice. Even nicer would be a rain coat that has the name of the company on it.

Any questions, feel free to ask.

[Kristi Silber]

Thank you very much for all the tips! Some I'll use, some I won't, but there are a lot of good ideas there.

(You are right that Mueller knows about this thread and the forum.)

I think the max. wage one can earn at Mueller depends partly on geography - not only the distance factor, but also types of cases one gets. Some are easier than others, and it's harder to get used to a wide range of them. My HVs, for example, have all been very different from each other; there's no way to create a "template" for them even if I wanted to.

I've been meaning to ask you, MuellerFieldrep, what kind of houses you are assigned - or is it a mixture? A lot of old, a lot of new, both? Rowhouses or detached?

[Mueller Fieldrep]

Thank you very much for all the tips! Some I'll use, some I won't, but there are a lot of good ideas there.

(You are right that Mueller knows about this thread and the forum.)

I think the max. wage one can earn at Mueller depends partly on geography - not only the distance factor, but also types of cases one gets. Some are easier than others, and it's harder to get used to a wide range of them. My HVs, for example, have all been very different from each other; there's no way to create a "template" for them even if I wanted to.

I've been meaning to ask you, MuellerFieldrep, what kind of houses you are assigned - or is it a mixture? A lot of old, a lot of new, both? Rowhouses or detached?

I work on all types of houses. Everything from rowhouses to a log cabin. The log cabin was the easiest case I have ever completed. 24x24 1 story slap with a fireplace. I was able to capture the interior with 1 picture since there was no kirtchen. And get this, it was considered an high value since it was hand built with a stone interior. My narrative was 3 sentences.

On the use of a template, I use one but I still need to alter it to fit th individual home. I also find I make fewer errors using the template since it contains all the information I need, it's hard to leave anything out.

Just out of curiousity, have you ever met another field rep? And did your manager ever discuss this website with you. My manger is good but I don't have much conversation with them. In fact, it's not unusual for me to go a week or two without speaking to them. I couldn't tell you how old they are, married or single.

[Kristi Silber]

I haven't met another FR. I'd like to.

(Edited)...And those non-FR Mueller personnel who may read this, maybe I should say a few words, since I do use my real name and have come Mueller's attention. I participate in this forum mostly to learn how to be a better, more efficient, more accurate FR. At times I have complained about aspects of working for Mueller, but I've also said good things about it; nothing I've said is untrue in my experience, but others have different experiences.

It's almost inevitable that Mueller FRs find each other and vent frustrations. It's an isolated job - no contact with coworkers, not even communication with more than one person in the company. It's especially hard early on, right after training, being thrown to the wolves.

[Mueller Fieldrep]

I was a manger in my last position. I ran a construction crew of 8-10 guys working on high value homes. The company I worked for was small but was very up to date in keeping thier employees trained, this included managers. We were constantly told how the company's most important asset was it's employees. In speaking with my manager in the past, I know I do a good job. Simpy put, Mueller doesn't keep you around or give you cases if you aren't good at the job. My manager has never told me I do a good job. I have to infer this by the number of cases I receive, the low rejection rate and receiving higher than usual fees for cases.

As I said above, I have been a manager. I cannot think of one reason why Mueller is so adamant about not providing feedback to it's employees. What possible harm could come of two field reps meeting to discuss better ways to do the job?

I will provide an honest asessment of Mueller for anyone who wants to listen. Like every company, Mueller has both good and bad points. In my humble opinion, Mueller is no worse than previous companies I have worked for. However, the good points outweigh the bad. I can make my own schedule, move as fast or slow as I choose. If I am not feeling well and need time off, I can do it. There is no micromanagement. The thing I like most of all, there is no office politics. I do my job and receive a fair wage. In this economy, thats not a bad deal.

I will say this, keeping employees in the dark breeds mistrust. I have no reason to not trust my manager or anyone at Mueller for that matter. Having said that, what reason do they have not to trust field reps.

If anyone from Mueller would like to respond (maybe an owner or manager) please do so.

[Kristi Silber]

"I cannot think of one reason why Mueller is so adamant about not providing feedback to it's employees."

Perhaps it's because our managers don't have any way to judge except by our errors, and to QA we're just faceless reports.

There are over Mueller 1000 FRs in the lower 48.

"What possible harm could come of two field reps meeting to discuss better ways to do the job?"

I imagine they worry about FRs sharing tricks of the trade or getting disgruntled with venting, or spread a feeling of entitlement because some get extra for certain jobs, not realizing all the time that it may cover.

"I will say this, keeping employees in the dark breeds mistrust..."
It also affects employee allegiance.
"...I have no reason to not trust my manager or anyone at Mueller for that matter. Having said that, what reason do they have not to trust field reps."

They should trust us, since we're the keepers of the knowledge! (She says, having inadvertently and stupidly blown that trust. Sigh.:( )

[Mueller Fieldrep]

"I cannot think of one reason why Mueller is so adamant about not providing feedback to it's employees."

Perhaps it's because our managers don't have any way to judge except by our errors, and to QA we're just faceless reports.

There are over Mueller 1000 FRs in the lower 48.

"What possible harm could come of two field reps meeting to discuss better ways to do the job?"

I imagine they worry about FRs sharing tricks of the trade or getting disgruntled with venting, or spread a feeling of entitlement because some get extra for certain jobs, not realizing all the time that it may cover.

"I will say this, keeping employees in the dark breeds mistrust..."
It also affects employee allegiance.
"...I have no reason to not trust my manager or anyone at Mueller for that matter. Having said that, what reason do they have not to trust field reps."

They should trust us, since we're the keepers of the knowledge! (She says, having inadvertently and stupidly blown that trust. Sigh.:( )

Intent is everything. Did you intend to blow that trust and purposely do something to cause it? Then it was an accident. We all make mistakes.

[Bob InNE]

TAXES:

I checked with my CPA who instructed me to write off all my mileage. I also am claiming unreimbursed business expenses for my phone, a new printer, a new measuring wheel, paper reams, and printer cartridges. So, I have $4,500 in expenses to write off.

Check and see if you can write off all these expenses, too.

[Dub Smith]

Don't forget, as an independent contractor, you can also claim your Liability Insurance premiums, licensing fees, postage, and the largest deduction you can take is the portion of your Home Expenses as a percentage of area used as a home office. That includes mortgage interest, Property taxes, utilities, and any repairs or improvements made that benefits your Home Office. Another business savings you can take unrelated to your taxes is to classify your vehicle as a Commercial Vehicle with your State Tax Commission, that greatly reduces the cost of your Vehicle Tag each year. Many Happy Returns!!:)

[BridgeMan]

I suspect a lot of Mueller employees don't deduct their travel and business expenses because they typically use the IRS's standard deduction instead of itemized deductions. Young and healthy, no mortgage or property tax deductions, etc., result in the standard deduction being the only option. Being of sound mind and (sometimes) capable of coherant thought, I would never consider working for Mueller--but in reality, I think it's an insult to expect anyone to complete a detailed and comprehensive report, while working for peanuts. If the economy ever picks up, I'd urge all Mueller people to look into becoming home inspectors, or even construction inspectors, instead. You already have the basics, so just hunker down, study, and take the ASHI, NACHI or other required tests to get certified in your specialty area.

I definitely think flipping burgers, or even stooping to be a Walmart greeter, would be preferable alternatives to Mueller. No wear and tear on the car, no bad neighborhoods to deal with, and possibly even some bennies if you work enough hours in a week.

[K Mangum]

I don't think you can write something off that you have been reimbursed for - for instance, mileage. Mueller reimburses you for mileage even though it is not listed on your W-2. You would have to keep records of your mileage and the most logical way to prove it would be your weekly payroll. The remittance portion of your pay stub indicates that you were reimbursed.

[Kristi Silber]

K Mangum,

I don't think that's accurate that we are reimbursed for mileage. At least I'm not - not directly, anyway, though we may be given higher fees if the case involved a lot of driving. Mileage is handled by payroll by first deducting it from our pay, then giving it back to us untaxed.

As for Dub's comments, we aren't considered contractors, we're employees, though some of the same stuff applies.

And in response to Bridgeman's comments...Part of the reason I'm working for Mueller is that it's a lot more interesting (and educational, if one chooses) to do this than be a Walmart greeter or flip burgers. The schedule is flexible. One is pretty much one's own boss in a lot of ways. And it could be a stepping stone to other things, like being an HI. Not a bad job in the meantime, especially since our work is in higher demand than work for HIs presently is.

[Billy Stephens]

.
especially since our work is in higher demand than work for HIs presently is.
.
Ouch!
.

[Mueller Road Warrior]

Hello all and a special hello to fellow FRs from Mueller;

First post and a caution: A red flag for the IRS is a home office deduction so be cautious about this. The job is not worth an audit no matter how right you feel you may be.

[BridgeMan]

First post and a caution: A red flag for the IRS is a home office deduction so be cautious about this. The job is not worth an audit no matter how right you feel you may be.

I've been claiming a home office IRS tax deduction every year since 1999. All of my tax accountants recommended it (having lived in 3 different states), it's totally legal, and I have records to back up every dollar claimed.

And I've never been audited. Guess I'm just lucky?

[Mueller Road Warrior]

Lucky? Maybe. Most likely since you've been doing this for so long and the types of deductions and amount are consistent.

But for someone who is a field rep and an actual employee of Muller, an attempt to claim deduction for non reimbursed employee expenses for a cell phone, camera, computer, software, printer, paper, internet connection and service might get the wrong attention. Just saying.

The biggest expense for us is vehicle expenses. With gas prices going up this spring it will get interesting for those of us that travel up to a couple of hundred miles a day. Interestingly even though the IRS allowed mileage payments of 55 1/2 cents per mile for the second half of 2011, Mueller did not change their reimbursement of 51 cents per mile to match.

[Kristi Silber]

What's this I hear, another who gets mileage reimbursement? I guess I was too quick to question K Mangum.

So tell us how long you've been with Mueller, do you like it, are you urban or rural?

[BridgeMan]

Mueller probably only reimburses mileage for employees smart enough to ask for it. Sorry, Kristi.

Just remember--you like it there.

[Mueller Road Warrior]

@ Kristi: I cover an area of roughly 12,000 square miles with several small metropolitan cities and who knows how many (>hundred?) of small towns and villages. It is normal to drive forty to fifty miles or more to reach my first case of the day. I consider it a treat to have cases in my immediate area.

That being said, I would not work them as an employee unless mileage was paid. If they are not paying your mileage you should be an independent contractor (1099 form please) so you can claim your well deserved deductions. Do not feel sorry for Mueller, they are well compensated for their services and should be taking care of their field people that do the grunt work under all kinds of conditions and weather.

The last time I checked there were hundreds of openings in the US for Mueller field reps so as several posters have indicated, the turnover rate is high which typically does not speak well of a company and shows up quickly on the internet.

Do I like my job? For the most part, yes. The work is interesting, I set my own schedule and meet some nice folks. Some homes are incredible. But the after mileage pay is insultingly low and QA can be a slap in the face and sometimes outright stupid. My error ratio is very very low. Several times in the past few weeks I have typed up emails with resignation notices but after a cooling down period have deleted them. Someday one will go through. It will be their loss.

[Kristi Silber]

Mueller probably only reimburses mileage for employees smart enough to ask for it. Sorry, Kristi.

Just remember--you like it there.

I don't think it's a matter of smarts when that company has already told you multiple times that mileage isn't reimbursed.

I'm guessing it depends on the population density of an area the field rep has to cover. My cases are never more than about 12 miles away, and most are less.

Yes, the field rep turnover is high, especially in the first few months, I bet. That's the hardest time to get through, and it's when FRs get the lowest pay because it's a hard job to get efficient at...and because in general, Mueller pay isn't commensurate with the knowledge we're supposed to have, and responsibility for so many financial decisions. I know that. It's crazy. But these days it's hard to find any job that is interesting and educational, and that could lead elsewhere. In that sense, the job is what you make of it.

[K Mangum]

You actually are "unofficially" reimbursed for mileage. Mueller takes those miles you put on your reports, multiplies them by .51 and pays you for them. It is just not considered taxed income. IE - total cases for the week add up to $100 and you put 50 miles on your cases. You will still get $100 (minus FICA) as follows. $100 MINUS (50 X .51 = 25.50). Your paycheck says $100, but they only consider 74.50 of that as taxable income and that is all that is reported on your W-2. Look at your pay stubs and you will see how they do it.
Hope that helps,
Kathie

[Bob InNE]

I don't think you can write something off that you have been reimbursed for - for instance, mileage. Mueller reimburses you for mileage even though it is not listed on your W-2. You would have to keep records of your mileage and the most logical way to prove it would be your weekly payroll. The remittance portion of your pay stub indicates that you were reimbursed.

Just to clarify. Yes, my particular deal is that the mileage expense is deducted from the fee and then reimbursed non-tax. That's why I asked my CPA. He reasoned that the net effect is to NOT reimburse mileage. In effect, they are stealing my deduction. My CPA advised that I simply disregard this strange business practice and file for the mileage.

I also have other deduction (non-Mueller) that put me over the limit for a standard deduction. So, I'm lucky there.

I like my job, too. But let's face it- It's very VERY low pay. When I looked at my full year W2, and considered the expenses I paid out of pocket, that became crystal clear.

I suspect Mueller's executives live in very large homes on the shores of Lake Erie/Ontario. Not to get political, but it's probably true.

[Beverly Slover]

Hello everyone, Although I am new to this forum, I am a twenty seven year old veteran to the industry. I sold our REO maintenance business two years ago and semi retired.
I have seen "inspections" diminish over the years from a wonderful merchant verification for $150.00 to these companies getting into P &P inspections.
It sounds like that is exactly what you are talking about. Of course occupancy inspections do not pay anything, there are companies out their who pay their inspectors $3.00 an inspection. Those companies get hundreds of these a day.
Now the commercial companies are getting in on the "greed act" and they are making the big bucks by shaving inspections back.
They require inspectors to carry E and O insurance and that would be my rebuttal. Pay my insurance and vehicle maintenance and I will be able to do your inspections for $6.00.
The whole point is. We are all private contractors and we can refuse work we cannot make money doing.
I have often told them, sorry I am not in P & P, so I cannot do those occupancy inspections. They accept that and continue to give me the merchant verifications or lease equipment inspections, or fleet audits.
I am not sure this will help you, but if you do not let them low ball you then they can't take advantage of you. That is exactly what ruined the P & P industry. The contractors were so anxious to get the work from other contractors they accepted cut prices and ended up cutting their own throats. Now they are all crying, but they did it to themselves. The inspection industry must not let that happen. Stick to your guns and don't work for free or worse go in a hole doing their work so they make a hefty profit.
That is my two cents for what it is worth.

[Dub Smith]

Here Here for Beverly! You preach it Sister... you will find alot of support on that matter here on this forum.:)

[Kristi Silber]

Just to clarify. Yes, my particular deal is that the mileage expense is deducted from the fee and then reimbursed non-tax. That's why I asked my CPA. He reasoned that the net effect is to NOT reimburse mileage. In effect, they are stealing my deduction. My CPA advised that I simply disregard this strange business practice and file for the mileage.

I also have other deduction (non-Mueller) that put me over the limit for a standard deduction. So, I'm lucky there.

I like my job, too. But let's face it- It's very VERY low pay. When I looked at my full year W2, and considered the expenses I paid out of pocket, that became crystal clear.


I agree with your CPA that the net effect is not mileage reimbursement, since it's taken from (more or less) set fees that aren't directly dependent on miles driven. The way Mueller looks at it, our expenses are accounted for in our fees. Besides gas and vehicle wear and tear, I haven't found my expenses to be that high, though there are some necessities.

Personally I'd be wary of claiming mileage as an expense because of the way Mueller handles it. You could claim the difference between Mueller's rate and the federal rate. Otherwise you'd be claiming twice the deduction, since that portion of your net income wasn't taxed. They've already given you that deduction. That's the way I understand it, anyway, but I could easily be wrong.

Onto Beverly's post...I think for the sake of all the potential Mueller Field Reps who read this thread it should be emphasized that the post is not about Mueller, though some of it may be about the industry Mueller's a part of. For example, Mueller FRs are usually employees, not independent contractors, and they aren't forced to carry any particular insurance.

Actually, I'm not exactly sure what Beverly does, or how it relates to Mueller. Mueller FRs are not inspectors, though some of what we do is inspection. We are first and foremost assessors of replacement costs. The inspection part comes into play because we also collect data about the likelihood that insurers will end up having to pay out for any of that replacement (or for liability due to property hazards).

We can certainly ask for more money, and I think it's not a bad idea to do so after being there a while, but we can't demand it, nor can we afford to anger or annoy our managers. Mueller does want to keep good FRs, though, and I believe part of their strategy is to award people for good work. Hiring and training new people costs them money, and they have to keep the product up to snuff to retain their customers, the insurance companies. My pay (not including mileage "pay") has risen in the 4 months I've been there, though it may still be a bit below what was advertised. But I still have stuff to learn, and will get more efficient.

[Garry Sorrells]

Not to make anyone unhappy or discontented with their work situation.

From what has been said I take it that you all act as independent contractors.
Do you take into account that at some time you will be injured while either on the road or at a property? Thus not being able to perform your tasks and therefore not having any income? I would think that if you are truly independent contractors you are left to your own resources for covering illness or accidents. If you account for potential income loss or coverage against loss, you generate a significant cost to account for from your general income.

Do you add the cost of protecting yourself into the total cost of doing business?
The calculated what your real rate of return is for your efforts?

Like all business you have a fixed cost to account for each and every day. It may equate to $100 just to start a vehicle before it actually evens moves.

[Kristi Silber]

I'm not sure who brought it up first anymore, but as I've said a couple times, most Mueller field reps aren't independent contractors, we're employees, and as such are covered for on-the-job accidents. ...Oh, I see it was Jason himself, the OP, who first brought up independent contractors. I think things may have changed since the thread started.

[Mueller Road Warrior]

Just a quick add on to this thread...and it keeps on growing.

Mueller Services Reviews | Glassdoor (http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Mueller-Services-Reviews-E272289.htm)

[harvey kelly]

I think that the keys to Mueller is you have to be in a high volume area. It can also work if you have other sources of income and this is supplemental income. I also know that some field reps are full time employees. The pay is low for the amount of work that they want done. You cannot deny that because the organization has to be paid and the person doing the field work gets what is left over. You have to drive to the location, do the inspection and measurements, fill out the report, do a diagram, and wait for QC to call you to correct something. Even with the high value inspection which pay more but the report is three times as long and still time consuming. What makes it worse is that they make you a W-2 employee so you are a hourly wage earner. So the first 40 miles to and from your home cannot be claimed and they do not have to pay you for that mileage. Additionally as mention in a previous post that means that you have to be able to do a Schedule A and then overcome that 2 percent AGI on the form 2106. So if your gross is 50,000 then the first 1,000 you spend on the job comes out of your pocket. If they made field reps contractors then you could deduct all kinds of business expenses. Unfortunately this favors the field rep and Mueller is more interested in impressing clients with the number of employees that they have. I can see doing this type of work to gain experience that will eventually allow you to move into more lucrative fields of inspection unless your retired and just want to get out of the house.

[Mueller Fieldrep]

I think that the keys to Mueller is you have to be in a high volume area. It can also work if you have other sources of income and this is supplemental income. I also know that some field reps are full time employees. The pay is low for the amount of work that they want done. You cannot deny that because the organization has to be paid and the person doing the field work gets what is left over. You have to drive to the location, do the inspection and measurements, fill out the report, do a diagram, and wait for QC to call you to correct something. Even with the high value inspection which pay more but the report is three times as long and still time consuming. What makes it worse is that they make you a W-2 employee so you are a hourly wage earner. So the first 40 miles to and from your home cannot be claimed and they do not have to pay you for that mileage. Additionally as mention in a previous post that means that you have to be able to do a Schedule A and then overcome that 2 percent AGI on the form 2106. So if your gross is 50,000 then the first 1,000 you spend on the job comes out of your pocket. If they made field reps contractors then you could deduct all kinds of business expenses. Unfortunately this favors the field rep and Mueller is more interested in impressing clients with the number of employees that they have. I can see doing this type of work to gain experience that will eventually allow you to move into more lucrative fields of inspection unless your retired and just want to get out of the house.

I agree with just about everything that has been writtien above. In terms of taxes there are a few things that my tax guy advised me to do. If you don't own a home, it's going to be tough to get any of the expenses due since the taxes paid from your salary at Mueller aren't enough to get a decent refund.

However, I deducted the difference between what Mueller's mileage reimbusrment is v the actual number. It wasn't easy to figure it but I can provide the details to anyone who needs it. I also have a home office which occupies about 12% of my living space (not counting the basement of course :) In my state, there is a line for unreimbursed business expenses. Mueller does not pay for my paper, ink, pens, pencils, internet, phone, computer or car maintenace. I can't claim this on my federal but I can claim it on my state return. The actual expenses worked out to be about $600.

Of course, your home office could be the corner of a bedroom if it's where you work. Or it could be a whole room you are using for storage and just happen to have a desk and chair in that room. That means that 12% of your taxes, utilities, cleaning expenses, mortgage payment and anything else associated with that area can be claimed. If you remember your Mueller training, they suggest you have an area where you can work and not be distracted.

I would be happy to provide any info I can to anyone who needs it.

[Kristi Silber]

I deducted the difference between what Mueller's mileage reimbusrment is v the actual number.


I don't understand this. What "actual number" are you talking about? 55.5 cents? Should be pretty easy to figure - add up the mileage from the last 6 months of 2011, multiply by 0.045, and that's the dollars you can claim as unreimbursed mileage.




What makes it worse is that they make you a W-2 employee so you are a hourly wage earner. So the first 40 miles to and from your home cannot be claimed and they do not have to pay you for that mileage.


I don't understand this. Are you sure you're not talking about miles for commuting to a place of work? Or is it a state tax law you're talking about?

This IRS publication (http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p463.pdf)covers a lot of this stuff in Ch. 6.

[harvey kelly]

I don't understand this. What "actual number" are you talking about? 55.5 cents? Should be pretty easy to figure - add up the mileage from the last 6 months of 2011, multiply by 0.045, and that's the dollars you can claim as unreimbursed mileage.




I don't understand this. Are you sure you're not talking about miles for commuting to a place of work? Or is it a state tax law you're talking about?

This IRS publication (http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p463.pdf)covers a lot of this stuff in Ch. 6.

if you have no regular office and you do not have an office in your home. In this case, the location of your first business contact inside the metropolitan area is considered your office. Transportation expenses between your home and the first contact are nondeductible commuting expenses as well as your last business contact and your home.

Mueller will not pay mileage for job within the city you live (I haven't work for them in a while). You can drive to the other side of town or next door but the fee is the same. Most companies will not pay travel expenses within a certain radius. I do not know how they come up with a number but one company I work for as a contractor will always deduct 40 miles from any trip and not pay that 40 miles but will pay anything over. I can easily deduct it on the Schedule C form. I also work as a W2 employee for another company and they will do the same thing. They will not pay any expense for the first 20 miles to the first job and the last 20 miles of the site for the last job.

So if your doing 10 or 15 inspection within your city, Mueller will not pay mileage and you will be hard press to claim any of this on a using the Form 2106 and Schedule A. You will also be hard press to have a room in your home that you can call a home office. By the book the home office should only contain business equipment but they will never check so you can have your TV on while you work. If you are able to claim a home office then it will depend on the company that you work for and what they are willing to pay for mileage expense. As a contractor, home office is irrelevant for "claiming mileage" on a Sch C. My point being is that some employees (field inspectors) of Mueller should really be contractors because the volume of work is low and the employee loses money and valid deductions for tax time. If people want to earn money that is great but I think Mueller takes advantage of this for what is best for Mueller.

[Mueller Fieldrep]

if you have no regular office and you do not have an office in your home. In this case, the location of your first business contact inside the metropolitan area is considered your office. Transportation expenses between your home and the first contact are nondeductible commuting expenses as well as your last business contact and your home.

Mueller will not pay mileage for job within the city you live (I haven't work for them in a while). You can drive to the other side of town or next door but the fee is the same. Most companies will not pay travel expenses within a certain radius. I do not know how they come up with a number but one company I work for as a contractor will always deduct 40 miles from any trip and not pay that 40 miles but will pay anything over. I can easily deduct it on the Schedule C form. I also work as a W2 employee for another company and they will do the same thing. They will not pay any expense for the first 20 miles to the first job and the last 20 miles of the site for the last job.

So if your doing 10 or 15 inspection within your city, Mueller will not pay mileage and you will be hard press to claim any of this on a using the Form 2106 and Schedule A. You will also be hard press to have a room in your home that you can call a home office. By the book the home office should only contain business equipment but they will never check so you can have your TV on while you work. If you are able to claim a home office then it will depend on the company that you work for and what they are willing to pay for mileage expense. As a contractor, home office is irrelevant for "claiming mileage" on a Sch C. My point being is that some employees (field inspectors) of Mueller should really be contractors because the volume of work is low and the employee loses money and valid deductions for tax time. If people want to earn money that is great but I think Mueller takes advantage of this for what is best for Mueller.

I agree with everything you said. I am lucky enough to have an office dedicated to work. In the past I performed pre construction inspections on high value homes and I still do some work for that company as a contractor. You are correct in your point that no one can see if your TV is on while you are working.

For what it's worth, I really can't complain about working for Mueller. I handle between 150 and 200 cases a month for them and they pay me more when I think the case deserves it. I also have a great manager who knows what they are doing. My manager knows I only call when an email isn't gonna work. As far as asking for more money on cases, I don't abuse it so when I ask, they are ok with it.

I am really curious about something, does anyone know how much Mueller is paid for the cases we complete? A friend of a friend is an actuary (sp) for Liberty Mutual and she said that drive by inspections are $50 and interiors are close to $150. If that's the case, High Values must be well over $200, maybe even $300. I understand that Mr. & Mrs. Mueller don't work for free and all the rotten people in QA need to eat (not if I could help it) but it would be nice to know the dollar amount so you know how much room there is to negotiate.

And while I am on the topic of QA - Those who can, do. Those who can't, sit at a desk and critique the work of others.

[Mueller Road Warrior]

@Muller Fieldrep: Yes I have heard that Mueller gets a substantial amount per case compared to what is given out to the FRs. I suppose a business has to make money but wow what a return! Quite frustrating when a simple occupancy turns into a multiple major concerns survey and you don't make an extra dime (well maybe a dime that's borrowed from another case to make you think you got something special...).

And speaking of QA, it is very obvious that some of those folks have never driven a nail or picked up a paint brush. What a gig.


I am really curious about something, does anyone know how much Mueller is paid for the cases we complete? A friend of a friend is an actuary (sp) for Liberty Mutual and she said that drive by inspections are $50 and interiors are close to $150. If that's the case, High Values must be well over $200, maybe even $300. I understand that Mr. & Mrs. Mueller don't work for free and all the rotten people in QA need to eat (not if I could help it) but it would be nice to know the dollar amount so you know how much room there is to negotiate.

And while I am on the topic of QA - Those who can, do. Those who can't, sit at a desk and critique the work of others.

[harvey kelly]

I don't think you can write something off that you have been reimbursed for - for instance, mileage. Mueller reimburses you for mileage even though it is not listed on your W-2. You would have to keep records of your mileage and the most logical way to prove it would be your weekly payroll. The remittance portion of your pay stub indicates that you were reimbursed.


It really depends upon how they report the income on the W2 , If I remember correctly Mueller reports this extra money as gross income and you would have to, if you can, write it off as mileage or you will have to pay taxes on it. If it is reported in line 14 ( I can't remember exactly where it goes) then you cannot claim that mileage that was reimbursed. But you can claim any amount between what was reimbursed and the maximum limit. IE I was reimbursed for 35 cents a mile and I can claim the difference between 35 cents and 55 cents which is 15 cents a mile and can be claimed.

To those Mueller reps who use their real name, I tip my hat to you because I believe that if someone in Mueller management is reading this tread then they should learn from it and become better at managing people. My regional manager was always been fair and they always paid on time but beyond that I would have to cast serious doubts on some of the things that the company does.

I also find that Mueller will negotiate with you for inspections that require significant travel. I was always able to come to a satisfactory agreement. I think that you have to ask if you believe that the amount is unfair.

[Kristi Silber]

Hey, Mueller has its expenses...think how many people they have to train!;)

Um, I don't even want to say it, but have any 2011 employees noticed anything curious about our W2s?



It really depends upon how they report the income on the W2 , If I remember correctly Mueller reports this extra money as gross income and you would have to, if you can, write it off as mileage or you will have to pay taxes on it. If it is reported in line 14 ( I can't remember exactly where it goes) [line 12] then you cannot claim that mileage that was reimbursed.


..............



I believe that if someone in Mueller management is reading this tread then they should learn from it and become better at managing people.


I agree. I doubt, though, that they'd go through the whole thing and take to heart the important bits, which are kind of scattered. I believe there are a couple main problems (apart from the pay system, which is really weird):

- FRs are treated impersonally, like drones. The only contact that is initiated by the company is about our "errors." This isn't good for company loyalty or worker morale, both of which affect turnover and the quality of the product.

- Training is not sufficient if it can take several months for FRs to work up to the wage advertised, if they ever do. There needs to be ongoing support for a while after FRs enter the field. There should be some kind of real-word type training, like a video component of FRs doing surveys, narrated but not edited, so trainees can see how surveys really are done in the field. Or a webcam. ... And the modules need editing.

[melissa carmichael]

i am interested in becoming a field rep. any suggestions on how to get started?





$15 an hour? This must be a typo. With gas costing around $4 a gallon and higher in some parts of the country I would hope that you would be paying around $75 to $125 per hour or better. Heck, you can make $15 an hour as a "Tilt-A-Whirl" greaser!

It is time for jobbers like your company to realize that times have changed and expense are not what they were 10 years ago. Insurance field work has historically been low paying and one of the main reasons that experienced inspectors do not do them.

[melissa carmichael]

$15 an hour? This must be a typo. With gas costing around $4 a gallon and higher in some parts of the country I would hope that you would be paying around $75 to $125 per hour or better. Heck, you can make $15 an hour as a "Tilt-A-Whirl" greaser!

It is time for jobbers like your company to realize that times have changed and expense are not what they were 10 years ago. Insurance field work has historically been low paying and one of the main reasons that experienced inspectors do not do them.


i am interested in becoming an inspector. i heard there is an aptitude test. what does that consist of? how do i prepare for this?

[Kristi Silber]

You are asking the same questions in two threads. I answered already in the other thread that because it's an aptitude test, you can't/shouldn't prepare. The point of the aptitude test is to see whether you're going to be able to learn what you need to know quickly and effectively, or you won't even make it through training - many people don't. Don't worry about it, just do it. If you don't do well, you shouldn't try to do the job anyway.

[Kurt Hartman]

I am new here, I've been working for Mueller for about a year. I am just curious how high gas prices are going to have to get before other field reps are going to say something to their managers about the fees. I doubt if they will raise them but I refuse to continue to pay for my own gas once it gets to $4.00/gallon unless there is some sort of fee increase

[K Mangum]

I am not working for Mueller anymore but have followed this board to see what is going on. I agree about gas! Last year, when the federal reimbursement rate was raised, they did raise their rate to .55 per hour. You have to realize, however, that if they do raise your "reimbursement" rate, it is very deceptive. On a standard case, with no adjustments for extra miles or time, you still will make THE SAME AMOUNT of money each week, the only difference will be in the amount that is considered wages and the amount that is considered mileage reimbursement. Mueller needs to raise the standard pay per case. Last year, in Alabama, an address verification payed only $6, and a basic exterior only $10.

[Mueller Road Warrior]

I am in my second year. On a recent interior/exterior survey with a significant drive of just under 100 miles one way, I was paid just a hair over $8.00 an hour after mileage for the case.

My kids make more per hour bagging groceries. I gave them a year and proved my worth over a thousand or so cases. I am on my way out.

add'l: My mileage reimbursement never changed. It has always been .51 per mile.

[Bob InNE]

I talked to a friend of mine over the weekend. He delivers pizzas for Pizza Hut. He makes more than I do. They don't pay mileage either. But, I mean, you get my point.
There are two kinds of employers: Those that regard employees as assets, and those that regard employees as "tools."
Wake up Mueller. Your employees want to do a good job. But you keep sending them the message that you think they are tools.:rolleyes:

[D. Dimmick]

I would like to know if there is any other companies out there looking for Field Reps like Mueller. The reason why I ask is because I was turned away by Mueller I believe in part because I wanted it as a part time job. There would be No other reason why. I mean they need reps in the Philly area and I was willing to work up to 30 hours part to e but they declined.

If anyone knows of any other company out there please let me know!!!

You can email me or even call me at 267/446-5362

Thanks

[Roadie]

There are a few big ones, but this one is hiring in PA:

Spotlight Risk Services
(http://www.spotlightriskservices.com/careers/)http://www.spotlightriskservices.com/careers/ (http://www.spotlightriskservices.com/careers/)

[Norlene Leake]

I have worked for Mueller for almost 3 years. My area is not high volume. I have a manager that has incorporated new rules-I have to have all exteriors done by Friday of each week to receive more work. This week I have one-yes one that will be a 35 mile drive one way. I rejected it for more pay and now I am to receive $19.50 for doing it. I cannot hold onto it to see if I have more work in that area because he expects it to be done by Friday the 6th or he won't assign any more work to me. It is not due until the 13th but that does not matter. QA is a joke-I am making twice the number of phone calls to try to locate the right people or properties as I was doing two years ago. I am paying over $1 more per gallon of gas. It's just not worth it anymore. I am looking for other work.

[K Mangum]

Wow! I am glad that I resigned the first of the year. And as I have said many times before, I would have been happy to continue if Mueller had been willing to be more accommodating and willing to work with the field reps. A fair pay scale, accessibility, a willingness to listen and make changes, and reasonable reimbursement for the all of the additional required phone calls, documentation, labeling, etc. would have made a huge difference. A happy employee is the key to good customer satisfaction.

[Kristi Silber]

I have worked for Mueller for almost 3 years. My area is not high volume. I have a manager that has incorporated new rules-I have to have all exteriors done by Friday of each week to receive more work. This week I have one-yes one that will be a 35 mile drive one way. I rejected it for more pay and now I am to receive $19.50 for doing it. I cannot hold onto it to see if I have more work in that area because he expects it to be done by Friday the 6th or he won't assign any more work to me. It is not due until the 13th but that does not matter. QA is a joke-I am making twice the number of phone calls to try to locate the right people or properties as I was doing two years ago. I am paying over $1 more per gallon of gas. It's just not worth it anymore. I am looking for other work.

That's crazy! It's in no one's interest. If I were you I'd complain to your regional manager about the due date thing. You're looking for other work anyway, what have you got to lose?

[Joseph Dalessio]

This thread has gotten pretty diluted with all sorts of information flying around, so I can't say I agree or disagree with all of it. However, I will say that pretty much all of the negative points are spot on. I have been working with Mueller for a while now, and it's just the same stuff over and over - they pay a very low wage for a job that requires a lot of work, and the wage they pay doesn't even include large chunks of time spent working. On top of that you have inconsistent QA rejections which often times reject things asking for obscure information that was never requested in the first place, and are often times from a while back (you remember minor details from that survey from 2 weeks back, don't you???). Also, lets not forget the less than stellar training you get in the first place, and the huge amounts of time you will spend cold calling policyholders and trying to explain that you need to go inside their house and take pictures (if I wanted to do that I would get a job as a telemarketer - probably make more money doing that anyway...). They then have a high turnover rate and they seem to be completely puzzled as to why.

Yes, it's true that you don't get a lot of positive feedback from management, and yes, that could be a part of the reason why the turnover and (judging by this thread) morale is so low, but I'm guessing the biggest factor is pay. They have to realize that they can't have the best of both worlds - you aren't going to get many quality employees who are willing work hard and do a good job, but at the same time be content making the as much money as someone standing at a grill flipping burgers.

Why am I still working for them? It's really just a pay check while I look around for other work - work that is not in insurance loss control (I would be quite surprised if any of their competitors offer higher pay or better working conditions). As soon as I find it, see ya later Mueller. I tried to work with them so everyone could be happy, but they are either unwilling (bad employer) or unable (bad business model) to change their ways.

[harvey kelly]

I would like to know if there is any other companies out there looking for Field Reps like Mueller. The reason why I ask is because I was turned away by Mueller I believe in part because I wanted it as a part time job. There would be No other reason why. I mean they need reps in the Philly area and I was willing to work up to 30 hours part to e but they declined.

If anyone knows of any other company out there please let me know!!!

You can email me or even call me at 267/446-5362

Thanks


US Reports does both commercial and residential. I do not know if they are hiring in your area but it can hurt to check them out as they are hiring as of 2 weeks ago. I don't think that the pay is any different than Mueller on residential but at least they also offer commercial inspections which do pay more.

[Robert Taylor]

I have recently started with Mueller Have experience with other companies and have found that Mueller makes promises to new hires that they do not keep An example would be the amount promised for each inspection. It was changed by the area manager without any discussion despite the fact that paperwork was signed prior to hiring that stated the rate of pay. I have found that the training provided was less than stellar. They require a 90 percent pass rate, but you find that the training is poorly suited for the work that you will be doing.

Recently field reps were required to have a full day of training with their managers I found that the manager was poorly prepared for the kind of inspections that were being conducted. I found that the directions that the insurance company provided gave specifics of what they wanted. The manager did it his own way which made it confusing.

QA department is not consistent. If you get a return on a case I find frequently the directions are poorly written and do not qualify for a return which creates additional work for you as a field rep. If you are detailed you will find that they will reject your case for too many photos or other detailed work that other companies want.

I will say that they do pay on time each week. When you go through training they pay you for that training when other companies do not. I guess it is one of those things does the small amount of pay add up to something that might help you in the short term, or do you spend so much time correcting things that are returned from QA that reduces you ability to stay happy with the company.

To those at Mueller in a position to make changes It is important that your field reps are happy. If you are receiving large amounts for these inspections and you pay minimal amounts to the field reps, you will have huge turnovers continually. Think of the amount that you pay out each time that you have to train a FR Would it be better to keep those reps rather than going through person after person over the years. A good business plan is where the majority of employees and field reps are happy with the work and the pay and when something gets returned from QA its no big deal. If not you will loose your reps to other companies who appreciate the work.:confused:

[Rick Speers]

So I am in the "ignore" Q with Mueller. Is it normal to wait 2-3 hours for them to answer? I started at 7 A. M. this morning. It has gone from 55 callers ahead of me to now 50. My phone interview was about 5 minutes. I am not sure if I am posting on the right thread or not, I am a first time poster here! :D

[kelly lopez]

Hi
Ive worked for mueller for abt 5 years. The money you make is based on your workload. The more you work, the more you get paid. I get 14 per exterior. Interiors and commercials are more of course. My weekly income could be from 600 to 700 ... like i said the more i work, the more i get paid. An avery exterior take me about 7 minutes on the web and about 15 minutes in the field. I luv it! i manage my time and schedule! Any other companies out there? Let me know!!! im willing to work more!!!

[Kristi Silber]

Population density of the territory makes a huge difference. Queens pop. density is over 21,000/sq. mi., while Minneapolis is 1/3 that. It could (and often does) take me 15 minutes just to get from case to case. And do you have to label your photos? That's often the most time-consuming part of data entry.

I couldn't ever make as much as Kelly because my case load is limited (plus my fees are lower).

Internet and computer speed, experience, attention to detail, how many of your cases are scheduled, neighborhood (wealthier neighborhoods have fewer dwellling hazards because of better maintenance)...there are a million little factors that determine actual wage. The neighborhood I spend most time in not only is one of the poorest in Minneapolis, there was a tornado that ripped through most of it last summer, and much of the damage still isn't repaired. That means many more photos to take and label, more hazards to write up...much more time involved.

It all depends. But it's good to hear from a variety of reps to get an idea of the factors involved and the range of pay.

[John Geogrge]

Just filled out an online app and sent a resume today. Hopefully they call me.

I have done similar work but it was property preservation. Cleaning foreclosed homes. There was a lot more labor involved but it did consist of inspections. Not for insurance companies though. Wasn't uncommon for me to take 300+ pictures.

I don't know where I am going with this. It is nice to see there are some positive people on here.

[harvey kelly]

Hi
Ive worked for mueller for abt 5 years. The money you make is based on your workload. The more you work, the more you get paid. I get 14 per exterior. Interiors and commercials are more of course. My weekly income could be from 600 to 700 ... like i said the more i work, the more i get paid. An avery exterior take me about 7 minutes on the web and about 15 minutes in the field. I luv it! i manage my time and schedule! Any other companies out there? Let me know!!! im willing to work more!!!

Draw a diagram, attach the photos, and fill out the form in 7 minutes on average. Exterior only inspection are easy to do and don't require a lot of time but you still have to do the diagram unless they did away with that requirement. As Kristi said downloading and attaching photos takes some time. Your weekly income is 600 to 700. Is that every 2 weeks, once a month or once in a while. Are you a full time employee or part time? Just trying to get the information because you may be the exception rather than the rule. I think that Mueller is located near New York and that sounds like this is there back yard. The only time that I made that kind of money is if they had a backlog and they wanted me to take a road trip to cities like Houston to do an outrageous number of inspections that was backlogged. But that was still once in a while and wasn't every 2 weeks. Living in a large city with various sister cities provides a large enough base that you can get a good amount of work. Smaller cities will not generate that amount of money. Also smaller cities would require a good deal of amount of travel to the next town in all directions. I always like to knock on the door and let them know what I am doing on their property. I always like when they follow me around to see what I am doing or fail to read the letter letting them know that the insurance company does physical inspections. I think I had 3 or 4 time in 4 years when the customer actually refuse the visit.

[kelly lopez]

Draw a diagram, attach the photos, and fill out the form in 7 minutes on average. Exterior only inspection are easy to do and don't require a lot of time but you still have to do the diagram unless they did away with that requirement. As Kristi said downloading and attaching photos takes some time. Your weekly income is 600 to 700. Is that every 2 weeks, once a month or once in a while. Are you a full time employee or part time? Just trying to get the information because you may be the exception rather than the rule. I think that Mueller is located near New York and that sounds like this is there back yard. The only time that I made that kind of money is if they had a backlog and they wanted me to take a road trip to cities like Houston to do an outrageous number of inspections that was backlogged. But that was still once in a while and wasn't every 2 weeks. Living in a large city with various sister cities provides a large enough base that you can get a good amount of work. Smaller cities will not generate that amount of money. Also smaller cities would require a good deal of amount of travel to the next town in all directions. I always like to knock on the door and let them know what I am doing on their property. I always like when they follow me around to see what I am doing or fail to read the letter letting them know that the insurance company does physical inspections. I think I had 3 or 4 time in 4 years when the customer actually refuse the visit.

Hi that income can vary. Most of the time its in the 600's on a weekly basis. I attach all the photos first that takes about 20 min depending on the cases. THEN after all photos are attached to each case, I being filling out the form that takes just about 7 to 8 minutes. I like the fact that I see different ppl and different places everyday. I also like that I see new materials such as siding counter tops, flooring etc... Its nice to do different things everyday. Ive been working for 5 years and only 1 person stopped inspection halfway and i still got paid for it. I have tons of work. THANK GOD!! if i wanted to make in the 700 or 800's i could easrly but i have a toddler and two other children I luv to spend time with. All in all I LUV IT!!!! :)

[kelly lopez]

Draw a diagram, attach the photos, and fill out the form in 7 minutes on average. Exterior only inspection are easy to do and don't require a lot of time but you still have to do the diagram unless they did away with that requirement. As Kristi said downloading and attaching photos takes some time. Your weekly income is 600 to 700. Is that every 2 weeks, once a month or once in a while. Are you a full time employee or part time? Just trying to get the information because you may be the exception rather than the rule. I think that Mueller is located near New York and that sounds like this is there back yard. The only time that I made that kind of money is if they had a backlog and they wanted me to take a road trip to cities like Houston to do an outrageous number of inspections that was backlogged. But that was still once in a while and wasn't every 2 weeks. Living in a large city with various sister cities provides a large enough base that you can get a good amount of work. Smaller cities will not generate that amount of money. Also smaller cities would require a good deal of amount of travel to the next town in all directions. I always like to knock on the door and let them know what I am doing on their property. I always like when they follow me around to see what I am doing or fail to read the letter letting them know that the insurance company does physical inspections. I think I had 3 or 4 time in 4 years when the customer actually refuse the visit.

Hi that income can vary. Most of the time its in the 600's on a weekly basis. I attach all the photos first that takes about 20 min depending on the cases. THEN after all photos are attached to each case, I being filling out the form that takes just about 7 to 8 minutes. I like the fact that I see different ppl and different places everyday. I also like that I see new materials such as siding counter tops, flooring etc... Its nice to do different things everyday. Ive been working for 5 years and only 1 person stopped inspection halfway and i still got paid for it. I have tons of work. THANK GOD!! if i wanted to make in the 700 or 800's i could easrly but i have a toddler and two other children I luv to spend time with. All in all I LUV IT!!!! :)

[Kristi Silber]

It sounds like Kelly doesn't have to label the photos. Not all companies require it, but most of my work (~85%) is for two companies that do want labels on the photos describing what is shown, and where it is on the risk. One company not only demands labels, but wants two photos for any trip/fall hazards: one close-up, and one showing where it is in relation to the risk. That includes every ^%&* downspout draining on a walkway - and over half my cases have that. I can spend 1/2 hour just labeling photos on a HV. I think FRs should get more for cases requiring photo labels.

There's my rant for the day.:mad:

Geez, $600 a week! You're very fortunate to have that many cases.

[John Geogrge]

I was wondering how long it usually takes them to let you know if you have been hired.

I did the phone interview the other day. The interview stopped after they asked what I was looking to make a week. I answered 300-400 a week. Which I would like to make a lot more but don't see that as unrealistic.

[harvey kelly]

I was wondering how long it usually takes them to let you know if you have been hired.

I did the phone interview the other day. The interview stopped after they asked what I was looking to make a week. I answered 300-400 a week. Which I would like to make a lot more but don't see that as unrealistic.


I find that they if they need someone and have available work, they will get with you as soon as possible. I would recommend that you do the training as soon as possible as the quicker that you do the training the more impress that they will be. They will see that you can manage your time and get thinks done without supervision which is a big plus. As was previously mention in other post, how much you make will depend upon your home area and your willingness to help out in other areas. If your answer did turn them off then they don't project that type of income for that area and they may have moved on. I am just making assumption as I don't what Mueller requirements for your area are. Maybe next time when that question is asked, give them the minimum that you are willing to work for. If they can't meet you minimum, it really is not worth it. Good luck

[Carpenters Helper]

Greetings to everyone,
I am yet another Mueller field rep and look forward to some fellowship from fellow workers. I have read this thread and surely sympathize with a lot of the comments. Just let me add my first complaint against Mueller and of course this has to do with QA. Recently one of the carriers required that we as field reps "prove" type of construction as either masonry or frame. The supposed proof we are to provide is a closeup photo of a window to show the margin between window trim and the face of the brick wall to determine whether it is solid brick or veneer. Well 99+% of houses built in my area are frame construction. I did a small house that was 25 miles from my house and QA rejected the report because i did not provide a closeup photo of a window that would show if there was a wide reveal to indicate possible masonry construction. The thing was that this house had vinyl siding on it and was obvious from photos already provided that it was frame construction. This is the kind of mindless rule following that really angers me. I went back and took a photo closeup of a window on the house to prove that vinyl siding is not solid brick construction........

[harvey kelly]

This is the kind of mindless rule following that really angers me. I went back and took a photo closeup of a window on the house to prove that vinyl siding is not solid brick construction........

I totally agree with you on that because it really annoyed me that if you didn't follow the rules to the letter (even if your observation reported was correct) that they would reject your report because you didn't have a photo that obviously makes no difference and does not add anything to the report. You have to make a second trip that will causes you to loose money.

[Joseph Dalessio]

Hi that income can vary. Most of the time its in the 600's on a weekly basis. I attach all the photos first that takes about 20 min depending on the cases. THEN after all photos are attached to each case, I being filling out the form that takes just about 7 to 8 minutes. I like the fact that I see different ppl and different places everyday. I also like that I see new materials such as siding counter tops, flooring etc... Its nice to do different things everyday. Ive been working for 5 years and only 1 person stopped inspection halfway and i still got paid for it. I have tons of work. THANK GOD!! if i wanted to make in the 700 or 800's i could easrly but i have a toddler and two other children I luv to spend time with. All in all I LUV IT!!!! :)

Kelly, do you get many appointment cases? I find it's easier to make more money on exterior only, since you can do as many as you want in a day, versus having to spend countless hours on the phone, and still only being able to get a few appointments setup each day.

How many cases a day are you completing to hit the 600-700 mark? I don't know about the others here, but I get 23 for an interior/exterior, 45 for HV, and 13 for the exterior only.

[Ginni TexaStar]

Good Afternoon.
Quick Check: Mueller-inc.com, and Elizabeth Farley.
This is the same as Mueller Services Inc. ??????

I am very uncomfortable with the amount of information which they wanted and when I wanted company information - "mis-direction, and non-sense".

I am in Texas - SouthEast Texas. Anyone else from Texas on this thread?

Does anyone have any information on this company? Like, CEO name, Incorporated in which state? CFO name? Who does payroll (ADP, Primepay, or Paycheks)? EIN from IRS? Texas Workforce Commission (unemployment) id number for employers? Corporate annual report? anything????

Thank you, Hope to chat with you'all soon. Ginni

[Kristi Silber]

I don't know who Elizabeth Farley is, but Mueller Services, Inc is the same as Mueller-inc.com. And I don't know how old this is, but here's a bit of info (http://www.business-lists.com/search/detail.asp?id=58BF7BD8C587D1795E60AF40B191C2A9). Tom Noe is still the CEO/president. Employee # may refer to full-time staff; it sure doesn't include field reps. Typical that they would be evasive about company info. Payroll by ADP. Incorporated in NY.

[Carpenters Helper]

Hello again,
I have just went through another change of managers and that always proves interesting in how the job is handled. I have been with Mueller for a little over two years. This time the manager tells me there is no adjustments on pay because of time/mileage considerations. It looks like I will have no choice but to refuse cases that will be out of pocket to complete. For example Mueller has begun to issue bank drive by cases that pays 3 dollars apiece ( not a typo, three dollars) and it is impossible to do any driving and even break even. My manager ask me to group the cases that i did for this drive by survey and submit them at the end of the week so they could be sent to QA as they would be rejected for the reason of pay below scale. Well i wrongly assumed the cases would be adjusted, all that happened was my manager pushed them through at the aforementioned rate of 3 dollars apiece. I am really becoming agitated with this job. I am nearing retirement and thought this would be an easy job to maybe work part time at after retirement but unfortunately it seems Mueller is a company that expresses an agressive disinterest in employess. The worst part is I cannot get an explanation of what the pay system is now regarding cases that are rejected for being below scale. Anyone else having this particular problem?

[Kristi Silber]

I got my first (and only, so far) $3 case a couple weeks ago. More than just a drive-by! Pretty straightforward if obviously occupied (one front photo, address number, street sign to confirm that was correct), but if not, instructions said to go to the door, see if anyone answered...if confirmed unoccupied, basically it turned into a occupancy verification, with photos of whole house, garage, outbuildings, any hazards. Plus mine was a rush, so I had all of 3 days to complete, and SOL if there was nothing else in the area to do. $3!

If I'm under the pay limit, my manager tells me to enter other cases first, then hope the problem case(s) goes through...although this week I had one that was overdue because I couldn't submit it, and he did then augment the pay. It's the average hourly wage over the course of the week that determines where we are on the pay scale, rather than the per case basis.

I agree, Mueller doesn't seem to care about employee job satisfaction. It strikes me as odd because in the end they are totally reliant on us to produce quality reports. QA has some control, but there are still many ways for us to cut corners if we choose to (I don't). When I hear about people making $20/hr, I always wonder how thorough and precise they are. Then again, I could be making a lot more with high population density (smaller territory), no photo labeling, and lots of exteriors. (And middle-class neighborhoods full of '50s ramblers - one can always dream, can't one?:D )

[Carpenters Helper]

Well each time i deal with a different manager the pay fluctuates wildly. I had one manager who gave me cases with an advance adjustment, 19.50 for exteriors and 31.20 for interior/exterior with 55.00 for high values. This was not all the time but would have some priced this way almost weekly. I have had ajustments to 100.00 for a high value house. This opposed to my normal fees of 13/26/46 respectively. The inconsistency is what bothers me. I would like to know what to expect. This weekend i am finishing reports but QA wont accept them because of the bottleneck created by cases i submitted to my manager thursday. These cases were the 3.00 dollar cases and I had ten of them. I thought the pay was going to be adjusted but the manager just pushed them through. Apparently this still counts on pay scale because i cannot submit anything new. So it looks like next week ill make a booming 30 bucks.....lol
My territory has a wide diversity of homes and density, in one city that is my favorite it is easy to do 20 exteriors in a day. The houses are mostly simple in design, good neighborhoods with minimal hazards. On the other hand my rural work the houses can be 10-15 miles apart, old farmhouses, old outbuildings spaced apart by a pretty good distance and more hazards.. So really the pay thing is relative and I would think Mueller would be more consistent in paying for this difference but i guess they dont want to reward anyone for spending more time on a case. By the way i have to admire anyone who can submit these cases on computer in 7 minutes. I think the best i have done is 10 minutes and this is cases that dont require RCT.. then again I am an old man that is not too good with a computer :D . I was in construction 30+ years and know housing but that knowledge unfortunately is not always advantageous in this work. Common sense is not in sync with this job. Having complained a lot I should also state I am thankful for my job because a lot of people i know have no job at all. The LORD will provide. My work has picked up the second of my two years at Mueller. The first year was pretty slack. This year i have been averaging between 30-40 cases a week.

[Kristi Silber]

Well each time i deal with a different manager the pay fluctuates wildly. I had one manager who gave me cases with an advance adjustment, 19.50 for exteriors and 31.20 for interior/exterior with 55.00 for high values. This was not all the time but would have some priced this way almost weekly.

Wow, that would be nice! No wonder he's not working there anymore.:rolleyes:


I have had ajustments to 100.00 for a high value house.
Me too, once I think, when I was newer and couldn't finish as quickly. And a few $75s.

This opposed to my normal fees of 13/26/46 respectively. I wonder why some people get higher fees.

This weekend i am finishing reports but QA wont accept them because of the bottleneck created by cases i submitted to my manager thursday. These cases were the 3.00 dollar cases and I had ten of them. I thought the pay was going to be adjusted but the manager just pushed them through. Apparently this still counts on pay scale because i cannot submit anything new.
Now that is just wrong! I would complain.

(Got tired of doing the quote/unquote thing...)

My territory has a wide diversity of homes and density, in one city that is my favorite it is easy to do 20 exteriors in a day. Wow, I wish I ever had that many exteriors. The houses are mostly simple in design, good neighborhoods with minimal hazards. On the other hand my rural work the houses can be 10-15 miles apart, old farmhouses, old outbuildings spaced apart by a pretty good distance and more hazards.. So really the pay thing is relative and I would think Mueller would be more consistent in paying for this difference but i guess they dont want to reward anyone for spending more time on a case. By the way i have to admire anyone who can submit these cases on computer in 7 minutes. Me too! I think the best i have done is 10 minutes and this is cases that dont require RCT.. then again I am an old man that is not too good with a computer :D . Depends on internet and computer speed, too. I was in construction 30+ years and know housing but that knowledge unfortunately is not always advantageous in this work. I know what you mean - it's so tempting to point out some of the crazy construction "methods" and code violations as hazards - which in some cases they are. Common sense is not in sync with this job. Having complained a lot I should also state I am thankful for my job because a lot of people i know have no job at all. How true. And it's an interesting job, seeing such a wide variety of houses, contents and residents - at least I do. The LORD will provide. My work has picked up the second of my two years at Mueller. The first year was pretty slack. This year i have been averaging between 30-40 cases a week.
Wish I had that many cases...as long as they weren't a lot of $3 ones!

[Robert Taylor]

I fully agree with Carpenters Helper. If you have experience in the construction industry you will be told differently by your manager or QA. I think most FR's complaints deal with QA. (Quality Assurance). I received a return the other day for an item that was clearly identified in the narrative. I sent it back after doing exactly what QA had asked. A second return, stating that it should have been done the way it was originally in the first report. Then I review that the QA person was being trained. So I received two returns from a non experienced QA person that did not know what to do. That always makes you feel good when you maintain a high degree of quality in your reports and have someone in NY who has no idea what they are doing return a case that was done correctly the first time around. That is not to mention how it affects your rating scores. :confused:

The other one that is difficult is when you are given a 2nd look report. You have to reinspect something that might have been done by another inspector. QA is really difficult as you have to look at the previous report when you go out into the field. If you locate additional hazards that the first rep did not, you are to ignore those and not list them in the report. There are so many variables that come into play that it makes it extremely difficult to understand QA's reasoning. The first inspector noted that the occupant of the risk was a renter for a mobile home. This is supposed to be a automatic termination of the policy. You are given the 2nd look request, you go out check the property and no one is home. You complete the report with the photos showing what has been done and what has not. You then get a return that shows the policy should have been canceled. This should have been done when the first report was submitted. Now QA wants you to go out until you can confirm if a tenant is occupying the risk after no one was home during your inspection. Additional time, additional travel with no benefits due to an error on the part of the original QA when the report was first submitted.

[Kristi Silber]

" If you locate additional hazards that the first rep did not, you are to ignore those and not list them in the report. "

What?! Did QA tell you that, or is it on the ticket, or what? That seems very strange indeed.

[Carpenters Helper]

" If you locate additional hazards that the first rep did not, you are to ignore those and not list them in the report. "

What?! Did QA tell you that, or is it on the ticket, or what? That seems very strange indeed.

Not only strange but dishonest. I would list the additional hazards and if QA wants to decieve the customer let them delete it. I cannot control what they do but I will be honest in what i do.

[Kristi Silber]

When I started with Mueller almost 8 months ago I didn't really have any complaints about QA. They were catching legitimate mistakes. In the past couple months, though, it seems like their quality has gone downhill. I've had several "errors" that weren't errors at all. Recently I got a case back saying my sketch was wrong. I sent it to my manager and he resubmitted it with no changes. Then I got it back, with the same "error." This time I committed the taboo of writing directly to the reviewer saying the sketch was right. I still have no idea what she was seeing. Lately at least a quarter of my "errors" have been theirs.

Then there's the annoying fact that if they send it back after the original due date, that gets added to your late percentage. I've gotten so I don't care what my percentages are anymore.

[Carpenters Helper]

I can sympathize with the QA problem. I would agree their quality has went down in the past several months. I have encountered a couple of trainees in QA recently. One of the trainees (I assume a trainee) sent a case back because she wanted the attached garage to be diagrammed as a built in because there was a two story built in area behind the garage. She changed my diagramm and re-labeled it a 2-car built in garage that was 21 feet wide by 56 feet long :eek: . I tried to explain to her that the initial drawing was correct and i redrew the sketch to reflect the original drawing. It was rejected again so i washed my hands of it and sent it to my manager and she took care of things.
I agree that QA has gotten worse and unfortunately those errors do reflect on our work not theirs. I dont mess with the statistics either. My error rate goes from 1.5% low to 10% high depending on QA. And half of the errors are only in the eye of the QA beholder not realistic errors.

[harvey kelly]

[ that gets added to your late percentage. I've gotten so I don't care what my percentages are anymore.[/quote]

I never cared about my late percentage. If you are getting most of your reports in on time, and you do a good job then what are they going to complain about but that won't stop them. Everyone has a job to do and to point out company violation is somebodies job. The time frame is set up by Mueller to get reports done as quickly as possible. Insurance companies have 60 days after a policy is issued to cancel for any reason. Mueller has plenty of time to get those reports into the client. Responsible inspectors will get them done within the time frame. Stuff happens and some reports may take longer especially if you have to travel out of town.

[Garry Sorrells]

I see the problem and have the answer. The QA need a QA to review their work and then another QA for that QA person and so on till you develop an infinite loop where the first QA is reviewing the last QA work for experience to move up in the chain of QAs.

[Carpenters Helper]

I see the problem and have the answer. The QA need a QA to review their work and then another QA for that QA person and so on till you develop an infinite loop where the first QA is reviewing the last QA work for experience to move up in the chain of QAs.


Garry you have me wondering if youre in Mueller management.......lol

[Garry Sorrells]

Garry you have me wondering if youre in Mueller management.......lol

No, rather than say that I have a plan and stop there, I am willing to divulge the plan for job creation, despite the cost. Maybe the Fed Gov will subsidize the the new hires. Oh wait a minute, that is what they say they are doing now with a tax break for business.

[Robert Taylor]

QA is probably one of those spots where everyone gets frustrated by having a report rejected. It is even more disturbing when something comes back that you know was correct. I had an open porch that I measured out in the field and transferred that information to the sketch. I had someone from QA that looked at the photo and drawing and decided that it was too big.

Most reps would modify it to get QA off their back and move onto the next report. The problem with that is the incorrect value that will be assigned in the RCT by reducing the size from what was listed is not a fair value to the insured.

I would have to wonder if QA persons have ever done time in the field to fully understand what they are seeing, and if so, how can mistakes like this occur for someone who has had training.

Normally the percentages did not affect me in the past, however our new manager is calling you once a month to discuss your percentages and to encourage you to bring things to a lower level. It does not matter that you get your reports in on time, like has been mentioned before if QA takes several days to review a report, and something is returned to you, they dock you when it is returned and corrected, not when it was originally submitted.

The last problem with QA is you cannot contact them directly, they refer you to your manager that has to be the in-between. It would be more efficient for a FR to call directly to the person in QA who has sent something back for correction and allow the FR to identify the reasoning of the report, diagram or RCT to the person who reviewed the case. :cool:

[Kristi Silber]

Ha ha - can you imagine all the calls QA would have to field? All the calls from fed up FRs? It's a nice idea, but I don't know how practical it would be.

[Robert Taylor]

Yes it would funny to see them have to be responsible for the things that they return to you. I think that if they had to field the calls rather than your manager they might be a little more careful in what they return.

Had a QA person that was totally wrong on his/her assumption that something was missing. Now remember they do not want a bunch of stuff attached to the photo other than basics when you submit your report.

After the first rejection, I added additional information in the narrative section to address his/her concern. After the second rejection I had to use arrows and point to the items that he/she said were missing and tag it as such.

I think there are QA people who are working that boost their percentages by returning reports that are within the guidelines that we follow for the client. I think this is a dis-service to the company and to the FR. It justifies the QA job, but falsely docks the FR for something that was correct on the initial report. As a FR you have no options to correct the rejection and if you have a manager that uses those percentages against you, then you are subject to the Wrath of Khan.

[harvey kelly]

When I first started out doing this type of work QC would annoyed me when they made mistakes. It did not bother me when I made a mistake that they caught and I had no problem quickly communicating with them to correct my mistake. In my old age , I come to the conclusion that they are just doing there job. People make mistakes. Inspectors make mistakes and QC makes makes mistakes. QC are people and they do the best job that they can whether they are new to the game or following procedures laid down by upper management. I believe that management creates the vibe in the work place. If management is controlling and does not give people freedom to make decisions in gray areas or deviate from the Mueller bible, then that is the environment that they create. Everybody is afraid to make a mistake because they will be called out on it. So, I believe that QC serves a purpose and I no longer shoot the messenger because we all are human.

Disclaimer: I do not work in the QC department. :eek:

[Ken Kowalich]

I'm sorry, this is a duplicate post.

I just completed a phone interview with Mueller and was told that someone would be contacting me in a couple days. Is this normal or did I not get the job?

Thanks for your time

[Roadie]

Hello fellow Mueller Field reps,

Sorry I haven't yet formally introduced myself, but you will soon be informed that effective July 16th 2012, Mueller will be reducing the mileage rate from .51 cents per mile to .40 which effectively raises your taxable income by $11 for every 100 miles traveled.

If you don't already, you better start saving all gas receipts and keeping track of all business miles so you can take advantage of the IRS's 2012 Standard Mileage Rate of 55.5 cents come tax time.

IRS Announces 2012 Standard Mileage Rates, Most Rates Are the Same as in July (http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=250882,00.html)


I'll complain about QA later :mad:

[Feeld Rep]

Hello fellow Mueller Field reps,

[...] effective July 16th 2012, Mueller will be reducing the mileage rate from .51 cents per mile to .40 which effectively raises your taxable income by $11 for every 100 miles traveled.


Any idea why they did this? The only thing I can think of is that in raising our income on the books, they are more likely to meet minimum wage standards. Or are they actually directly reimbursing some employees, and we get the shaft because they are giving everyone the same rate across the board?

I've been here several years, and have been nickel-and-dimed the entire time. This might be the last straw.


(On the QA front, though, I have to put in my $.02 on their side. Usually they're right, and when they aren't, it isn't because they're lazy/dumb. I just send notes to them in the comments field if I need them to understand something.)

[Kristi Silber]

That's all I can think of - in doing so, they are raising our gross income, so there's the appearance that we're earning more. This would make their "minimum wage" levels easier to meet, and give all reps the feeling they are making more since it will be reflected in our calculated hourly wage. Maybe there's more to it, I don't know - perhaps there's a tax break they can take somehow.

I don't understand why we'd need to save gas receipts or keep separate track of our miles. Come tax time, won't we just claim the difference between the federal standard and the $0.40? Our miles are already recorded on the payroll page.


"I've been here several years, and have been nickel-and-dimed the entire time. This might be the last straw."

Why does this make a difference? As long as we claim it on our taxes, we're getting no more or less than we ever were, right? The $0.15 difference is still non-taxable income.

Of the last 11 errors I've had, I consider 5 contain at least partial errors on the part of QA. "Partial" errors include things like asking FR to note how dog's breed was determined. As far as I can tell, this is not something we were ever required to do, and shouldn't be considered an error for that reason. But in the end I don't really care. Let them nitpick, make up rules, whatever - the only result is that I no longer care whether my error rate is 5% or 15%, and neither does my manager.

[Feeld Rep]

I don't understand why we'd need to save gas receipts or keep separate track of our miles. Come tax time, won't we just claim the difference between the federal standard and the $0.40? Our miles are already recorded on the payroll page.

That I don't know. Seems reasonable.


Why does this make a difference? As long as we claim it on our taxes, we're getting no more or less than we ever were, right? The $0.15 difference is still non-taxable income.

Only if you itemize deductions. I take the standard deduction.

The increase in tax is pretty minimal, pennies per case in my urban area, but it's one little thing after another. None of it is too bad on its own, but nothing actually gets easier or cheaper for me over time, to offset the incremental accrual of more time and cost per case.

Some of the issues might be different for you depending on location and customers, of course.



Of the last 11 errors I've had, I consider 5 contain at least partial errors on the part of QA. "Partial" errors include things like asking FR to note how dog's breed was determined.


Huh. I wonder if they were challenging the determination and just wanted you to justify it so it was on your head and not theirs. Weird, though. "Breed determined through reference to Mueller training materials. Duh!"

[harvey kelly]

[Maybe there's more to it, I don't know - perhaps there's a tax break they can take somehow.

Why does this make a difference? As long as we claim it on our taxes, we're getting no more or less than we ever were, right? The $0.15 difference is still non-taxable income.

I see it as cash flow. They are reducing there expenditures and increasing the reps out of pocket expenses. I commend the .51 cents that they were giving as there are very few companies out there that even pay that much. The rep has to pay that difference now out of his pocket and wait to get any thing back when it comes to tax time. Here's the kicker, if your in the 15 percent tax bracket you can only reduce your taxes by that amount 15 percent. Now if you are using the standard deduction you don't have enough deductions to itemize and you are getting what you would normally with no real benefit. The rep has more out of pocket expenses and hopefully they are still making enough money ( or your spouse) for it not to matter that much. That is what Mueller is hoping for.

[Kristi Silber]

But they've never paid us anything for mileage! All they do take mileage out of our fees and give it back without taking taxes out.

[Margare Thompson]

Hello, I'm new to the forum. Just wondering if anyone here is from NY area? I'm interested in starting with Mueller (if they will accept me). Any advice would be appreciate. Thank you!;)

[C Daniel]

Hi all. I'm new to the forum. I decided to reply here because I see there are some considering working for Mueller or new hires just starting. I've been working since Dec 2011. I've come to the conclusion that a rep's experience with Mueller is largely dependent on where he/she lives. I'm in a fairly rural area. And there's a lot of Nationwide. That means lots of drive time, gas, and wear and tear on my vehicle. Nationwide requires prenotification calls and at least 25-50% of them are interior/exterior. That means a lot of phone time to prenot and make appts. I also don't get many cases. Sometimes weeks go by without a single one. My average is about 7/week. My weekly pay ranges from $20-190. I think once I made $205. But, taken as an average over 6 months, the pay is ok (just ok) for part time work.
I've found the work easy, but there are a lot of details to keep track of. And if I make a mistake, it's a very long drive back to a risk on my dime. Most of the time QC is right when I make a mistake. But, sometimes it can be ridiculous. For example, a farmhouse had a porch with no handrail. The foundation was 3 cinder blocks. It was obvious from pics the porch was no where near 36" high. But, I had to go back out and take pics of a measuring tape showing it was not 36 (it was 29"). The notes state: "When in doubt, measure. IF hazard, need photo..." It was a 30 minute round trip to take those pics. The result is I don't pay attention to my error%. I'm also seriously considering quitting. I'd make the same amount of money working at my local Hardees - without the gas and wear 'n tear expense.

[Kristi Silber]

"Location, location, location." Definitely a big factor in how much you can make at this job!

Interesting that you say Nationwide requires prenotification. They don't here. Must be a regional thing?

Margare, it's been awhile since I went through training, so what was true then may not be true now, but when I did it, it was partly a chance for Mueller to evaluate trainees. Only 60% made it through and got hired. They like to see that you can be organized and complete modules and assignments quickly. Once you've been accepted and made it through training, come back and post again, and there may be additional advice we can give you.

[harvey kelly]

Hello, I'm new to the forum. Just wondering if anyone here is from NY area? I'm interested in starting with Mueller (if they will accept me). Any advice would be appreciate. Thank you!;)

Make your resume as strong and relevant to the residential home industry as possible. Stress anything that will highlight your ability to self manage your time and your familiarity with real estate and home construction. Finish the self paced training as soon as you can as this will impress them more than taking a long time to complete it. If they need someone in your area ( which is the key), then they will give you a call. Otherwise they probably will keep your resume on file. In my opinion this job is good because you can set your own hours, and work from home. The bad is location is everything. Some areas there is plenty of work and in other the work is very limited. Don't let QC scare you as they are just doing there job. Your relationship with your manager is the key and completing the work on time will keep them in your corner. Also look for other companies that perform residential home inspections, as there is nothing wrong with double dipping and working for more than one company. Good luck
and watch out for dogs in the backyard. Once one dog starts barking then the whole neighborhood gets into the act. The key to keep them quite is to bring doggie treats.

[Mueller FR]

Hello everyone, good to hear I'm not the only Mueller field. I have been with Mueller for about 5 years. I live and work in a pretty well populated area so the volume is very high. I am part time but I have a full time case load of about 60-70 cases a week. It has been like this for the last 8 months or so. Most of my cases are centralized. It might take me 30-40 miles to get to my first case, but I can knock out 20-30 exteriors easily in a day. Kelly from Queens can probaly do more then that in a day and the $ she's making is correct if not more per week.
This is the first time I've read this forum and loved hearing all that was said. I agree with most of what everyone said. I have been through 8 managers (more or less, I lost count) and the latest one is the best. When I first started the reports were a lot simpler and fast to do. The longer I've been here, the longer the reports have become. To me, it's the worst part of the job.
I have never had a problem with asking for more $ when needed. I like the job, but my main motivation is money. If you are driving out 30 miles each way and only doing 1 interior, that's a mistake. I will ask my manager if he has any exteriors in that area and to assign them to me. This way I can make the trip worth while. All of my managers told me that they did not want to see me lose $ on a job. I guess it helps that this is my only job. I knock out a lot of work in a week so I guess it makes me valuble. I am retired from an other job with a pension but I can't live on it alone.
All and all, if you don't have a degree like me, and you are looking for work that pays a decent wage ($20-$30 an hr) if you hussle, and like being on your own without anyone looking over your shoulder and making your own hours. It's not too bad. But........If your not making $ doing it, don't do it. This is a personel choice for everyone to make because all areas are different.

[Kristi Silber]

Welcome to a veteran FR!

Wow, $20-30/hr if you hustle. First, I think it should be made clear to all the people considering working for Mueller that from what I've heard and experienced, that is not typical, especially at the beginning.

So, I'm interested in the factors that enable people to make that much, and I would very much appreciate it if you (and any others FRs out there) could answer a few questions, especially since you're anonymous and can be honest.

- Do you work for insurers that require labeling of photos?

- Do you measure part of an exterior and calculate the measurements of the rest?

- How much measurement do you do by estimation? After 5 years I'm sure you would get very good at just eyeballing the shorter distances.

- How long does it take you to do a HV, and what methods do you use? For example, do you tally the materials for each room then calculate when done, or take notes, or what?

-There are lots of things mentioned in the training materials that we're supposed to look at, but aren't directly covered in the paperwork (whether the water pipes are properly supported, if the washing machine hoses are in poor shape, if the cables are frayed where they enter the house, etc.). Do you look at this kind of stuff, or just cut to the basics? Do you try to figure out if there's aluminum wiring in use? I used to, but it takes so much time trying to read a whole bunch of wires and I never once found any, so now I generally don't bother.

- Do you use something like Streets and Trips to plan the most efficient route? Do you keep accurate track of your times?

Wow, that's a lot of questions! Sorry. I'm sure I could think of more, too. Maybe others will chime in - that would be great! I'm very curious how other FRs do their jobs, so I can become more efficient. Any tips are much appreciated!

Thanks!

[Mueller FR]

Hi Kristi,
I can usually average in the field about 4 to 5 exteriors an hour. I am in and out of an interior in about 15 minutes depending on the complexity of the house. High values can be a little longer. Remember, time is not your friend. It is good that you take your time but the less time you take, the more $ you make.
Remember just to asked the same questions all the time. This way you don't have to worry about printing all the forms. Make up a cheat sheet and tape it to your clipboard. Ext, Int, HV and commercial. Same questions all the time.

I do a lot of bi-levels and private dwellings. If the house is rectangular, I only measure front and 1 side. No reason to measure all 4 sides because they all have to match anyway. I measure decks and porches if they are over 5 or 6 ft. I really am careful about the measurments because the home owner doesn't need to be paying for any more sqft.
I use micro soft streets and trips. It works well with Mueller web site where you can just check the one's you are going to and download to the program. This is something one of my managers showed me how to do. This program maps all the stop and tell you the best route to take to get to them. It is a Mueller must.
When I do interiors, I take into consideration the year of the house. If it is fairly new (late senenties and up), I don't worry about aluminum wiring in these houses. They stopped using it in the 70"s. Most high values are in good shape no matter how old it is so it's going to take less time for safety issues. I would also recommend that you make a template like one of the other field reps said. I can finish that high value form in about 10 minutes. Saves a lot of time and time is money. I get USAA and Travellers that require photos being labeled. Not very happy about that. I hate to say this but when gets to be the 11th hour on Sunday, I send in the report without the photos labled. When (and if) it gets rejected I correct it then.
Materials are estimated like moldings. About 70ft per room X how many rooms.
Recessed lighting is another thing. I asked one of my managers about % of recessed lighting. He told me after checking with someone that a house should not be more than 2%.
When I was hired, I was sent to Buffalo NY for training for 4 days. I think this was a very good way to get trained because they emphasized that speed with accuracy is the only way to make money here. We went out in the city and measured and took pictures all 4 days with a little classroom too. They also told me that this job wasn't for everbody. One guy in particular told me that most jobs you have to work your life around. This job you can work around your life which did turn out to be true.
I probably sound like a Mueller commercial but I am getting closer to being fed up. They keep adding on all kinds of things to these reports except for money. In they 5+ years of service, the time on the computer has increase 4 fold. I hate doing the computer work. I woulod rather drive around all day and measure than putting the work on the computer.
I hope that some of this helped you. The whole key is time savings. Try to group all your stuff together and get it done in 1 or 2 days. I make my calls on Monday and try to schedule them for the rest of the week. I give my appointment times in hour windows ex:10 and 11, 12 and 1, 1 and 2. This will give you time to work around appointments with exteriors. The one's I can't make an appointment with this week are my first priority next week. I very rarely have a problem getting in house during the week. I will work to 6pm if I have to not not much more. I also don't do weekends unless the are very close to my house and I'm around. Don't worry about errors and lateness unless they are pulling your cases. Then that's a problem. Always take care of your que and always request extensions when needed. If you show them that you can take of your que and that you can bang out the work they give you then you will be able to reason with them and maybe get more $ per case.
Sorry for the long winded answers. If you need any other questions answered, just let me know here or email me.

[Kristi Silber]

Wow, thanks! Those aren't long-winded answers, they're just complete. I really appreciate the time you've taken. So in the 5 years you've worked there, I bet they haven't increased the fees at all - I am right? Geez, computer time has increased 4-fold, that's amazing. But then, I've only worked there 8-9 months and they've added more requirements, so I guess I shouldn't be that surprised.

You're fortunate that you got the training you did. That's one thing I thought was a major drawback when I was trained. Absolutely no guidance on the job, in the real world. Two weeks of internet stuff doesn't prepare you for going it alone. And it really is alone. When I started I felt so isolated. The only connection I had to any Mueller staff was a very busy manager (whom I like a lot, but still), and communication among FRs was not available until I found this site. I guess they now have a field component of training. I think someone posted a while back that it was just confusing, though, because whoever did it didn't follow the same protocol as was taught online.

I started a letter to Mueller about the training program when I first "graduated" suggesting ways it might be improved. It ended up getting quite long. I never sent it, and was only reminded of it again yesterday. A lot of it was concerned with factual errors. There are a couple glaring ones, and it makes me wonder how many FRs ever learn about the mistakes. How many reports go in saying a residence has 800A service, and does QA catch them? You'd think after training 1000s of FRs they would correct the modules.

At least 75% of my cases require labeling of photos. Maybe the new system will be faster, I hope so. The new method of uploading photos sounds like a real hassle to me, but we'll see. At least there won't be any more $3 lender occupancy cases - I don't know if you had those, but they were a pain.

Anyway, I'll stop venting for now! Nice chatting with you. Thanks again for the reply!

[Rich Tillo]

If anyone is interested in working for these "low paying" companies like Mueller realize a few simple things. You need to be in a highly populated area to make a good living. You will probably need to contract for multiple companies to do well. Try to find a company that does mostly external inspections that do not require appointments. If you land a couple contracts and are in a populated area you will make money. I have 2 contracts and have made over $110,000 each of the past 3 years. I work about 50 hours in the field per week and another 20 at home or so but in my humble opinion is well worth it. Sitting on the computer with sportscenter on tv doing busy work is hardly work. When you really get to know the job your speed will increase big time...don't get discouraged early. Dont listen to all the negative Nancy type people on here, just realize you need to work a lot to make a lot of money. I have no clue where this hourly rate comes from, all my experience with these type of inspections pay per report. In a highly populated area a good inspector can complete 4-5 exterior inspections per hour in the field and maybe another 30 minutes at home to do the uploading and online report forms. Most exterior reports pay $10-$15 each. Most of the negativity comes from inspectors that were used to making an easy 2 grand a week back in the housing market boom doing their 5-6 full inspections per week. I was there as well, but instead of being negative and complaining about life being tough, I chose to adapt and work harder. I had to laugh while reading some of these posts about guys complaining about having to work 3 hours and drive 30 miles to make $100 on a commercial inspection while they sit on their couches at home making 0 dollars. I take every inspection sent my way even if it requires more work and drive time.....it seems to add up. When you always say yes to the contracts they notice and they send you more! It's funny how that works. There are a ton of companies out there that do this type of work, search "inspector" in craigslist jobs or "insurance inspector" in job websites and you will find them. Understand it is a lot of work to make a lot of money and make sure to have discipline to get it done on time. The better your time service is, the more orders they will send you regardless of the company and the more you will make. Feel free to contact me for more info about the companies I contract for and which ones I think are better than others. The start up costs are low unless you don't already have a computer and a vehicle. You will need a measuring wheel, a decent camera, and I would highly suggest getting Microsoft Streets and Trips for route planning. Measuring wheels usually crap out after a year or so for me but only cost about 80 bucks and is a write off. I use a Sony camera that is shock and weather proof since they take a ton of abuse in the field. Stay positive people and I will gladly help anyone that asks questions. Do NOT work for a occupancy inspection company that does mainly foreclosure work. They pay $3-5 per report and are horrible to deal with especially when everyone you see is very upset with you being there....I learned that real fast.

[June of Mueller]

Hello friends,

I just graduated training for Mueller and have my first assignments waiting for me. One appointment, and mostly exterior and occupancy.

I've been following this thread for a few weeks and thought I would ask if you have any best practices or tips for someone just starting out?

Thanks

J

[harvey kelly]

Hello friends,

I just graduated training for Mueller and have my first assignments waiting for me. One appointment, and mostly exterior and occupancy.

I've been following this thread for a few weeks and thought I would ask if you have any best practices or tips for someone just starting out?

Thanks

J

Just jump in and get it done. You have done the training. Just follow their guidelines. Use this website as it need as it contains a lot of information. Some of it doesn't apply to what you are doing. Search for the document pertaining to determining age of water heaters and HVAC systems as these will help you to identify the age of these items. Learn to ID FPE stab lok electrical panels. Use the tax records to confirm your measurements and the age of the building. Don't use the records in lieu of actual physical measurements. You can use wheeled measurement device which is easy to use. Just remember that they will go bad fairly quickly depending upon how much you pay for one. You should calibrate it regularly. You can do these by measuring a part of your house like the garage and remeasure it in a couple of months to verify that you are getting the same measurements. If you are getting different measurements then the thing is going bad and you will have to go and buy another. Also they do not work well on uneven terrain like thick grass, weeds and rocks and gravel. They will throw off your measurements. I have gone to a tape measure as I am tired of spending 50 dollars for those wheel measured device. I am getting carried away here. Just do the work as quickly as possible and you will get more work. You will develop your own methods as time passes and do what works best for you.

good luck
and remember QC is your friend. :D

[Kristi Silber]

Don't get discouraged. It's hard at first, takes quite a while to get used to it, but it will come. Took me about three months.

Personally I would not use tax records to confirm measurements. Often they are far different from what I get. There are various ways of measuring living area - you don't know if they're using interior measurement, finished basement area, or even how old they are - there could have been an addition since the data for the record were collected.

I use a measuring tape most of the time, especially on more complicated structures. A heavy-duty 35' tape will support itself for at least 10'. Easier to carry, more precise (makes balancing a diagram easier), hills aren't such a problem...and if there's snow in winter where you are you'll have to get used to it, anyway.

If you see "married" (Mueller's word) circuit breakers, which appear to be separate switches tied by a bar across them, don't add the numbers! This is a big mistake in the training module. If it says 100 twice, it's still 100A. Never add anything when looking at circuit breakers.

Unless people more commonly write dates on things where you are, you will end up doing a lot of guessing about ages of various things, especially CB panels, furnaces, fuse boxes and pipes. Just try to get it in the ballpark. It's one thing that gets easier over time. When there's no obvious plumbing renovation and the PH can't help, sometimes one thing they might know is approximately when the water heater was installed, and you can use that as a plumbing renovation.

Try to be efficient when driving to your cases. Lots of Mueller FRs use Streets and Trips. If there are one or two cases far from home and any other cases, wait a few days to see if your manager gives you more in that area.

QA may be your friend, but they make mistakes, too! Make use of your manager for questions, or post a thread in this forum if applicable.

Enjoy it!

[harvey kelly]

Personally I would not use tax records to confirm measurements. Often they are far different from what I get.

That is true that they are sometimes wrong. But they are sometime right and this is a good way to verify that the Rep did a good measurement. Sometimes towns may lower the square footage in order to reduce tax rates.and they use software where user error may cause a incorrect measurement. If your measurement is close to the tax records then you will become confident in your ability to do measurements and can go with your findings. If there is a 200 to 1000 sq ft difference between the tax record then either the rep got it wrong or the tax entity go it wrong. Any way this give the rep the change to go over their notes and if you confident in your measurements then go with it. By double checking your findings you may find simple errors like placing the wrong sq ft on the wrong side of the building. Trying to do 4-5 inspection in an hour means that you are rushing thru the inspection. If the Rep made a mistake then it may come back to bite you. Because the insurance companies do look at tax records or there may be a significant difference from the previous Rep measurements or the insurance agents information. Tax records are a good way to confirm your findings or at the least double check them. Insurance rates are affected by square footage, so it is important to get it right. Also I find that doing exteriors on homes that have attached garages, you sometimes have to estimate where that garage stops especially along the side. By checking tax records you can get a idea of what they have and adjust yours accordingly and increase or decrease your living space measurements. Because in the end the living space is more important than the garage. Tax records are a tool and should be used especially if the records are available online. I believe this is beneficial especially to new reps because it builds confidence. The mistake is to use tax records in your report without bothering to take measurements for the sake of doing inspections faster.

[Carpenters Helper]

Hi June ,

I would advise to read the "Notes Regarding Survey" in the body of first page of the survey order. There you find the peculiar requests of the specific underwriter youre dealing with. Some may require labeling photos, some require pools to be measured and some have different requirements. If you are diligent in reading this area and complying for every order it will save you trips back to the site to gather additional information.

As far as measuring a risk i never use a measuring wheel. I use a tape measure and a digital laser measuring device (100 dollars at home depot). The laser is really quick at getting any measurement with inside corners and i use a reflector board (i use sign board and use reflector tape i get at walmart to make the boards) for outside corners. It also comes in handy inside a risk where you dont have to worry about damaging anything inside with a tape measure.

I hope you much success......Charlie

[Kristi Silber]

Interesting that there are others who don't use wheels. I actually used mine today for the first time in months.

I have to strenuously disagree about the tax assessor data thing. How do you know when they are right or wrong? I especially disagree with adjusting your own measurements to come closer to the records. It may be fine to do where you live, Harvey, but it certainly isn't where I do, and we don't know where June lives.

I can go to a City of Minneapolis records site and find this:

Bldg area: 2108
Above ground area: 1340
First floor: 768
Second floor: 572
Bsmt: 768

Then look at the Tax Assessor area included in the software, and it says 2800, more than the above ground and basement area combined in the other record. Does the tax assessor data you're provided ever show half-stories? Mine doesn't.

That's just one example, others are just as unequal. Unless you know for sure that the assessor used exterior measurements, calculated any half stories as we are taught to do, didn't include any basement, and made the measurements since there were any additions or conversions (e.g. porch to living area), there's no way to compare what we get to their figures. If you aren't confident with what you're measuring and diagramming, you have work to do to gain that confidence.

[harvey kelly]

Interesting that there are others who don't use wheels. - Did you calibrate your wheel or assume that it is still accurate? Verification

How do you know when they are right or wrong? - If you get the same measurements then they must be right. If you get different measurements then they are wrong. Verification

I disagree with adjusting your own measurements to come closer to the records. I states specifically that on exterior inspection you do not know the measurements of the garage unless you go inside the garage. Therefor you estimate it, if it an exterior only inspection. If the tax records says 460 and I estimated it to be 520 then I would adjust it and add the 80 sq ft onto the living space. That just me. I do have faith in the Tax authorities because I verify my findings and they are right sometimes.

Unless you know for sure that the assessor used exterior measurements, calculated any half stories as we are taught to do, didn't include any basement, and made the measurements since there were any additions or conversions (e.g. porch to living area), there's no way to compare what we get to their figures.

Yes I know Mueller calculates half stores by saying that if the first floor is 800 then the second floor is 400. This is just estimating and not a actual measurement. Not that there is anything wrong with estimating. Sometimes you got to do it.

Any conversion from porch to living area requires some type of building permit and the city should add this into the tax records. Does it always happen especially 50 years ago,, No but you make your adjustments based on what you measure and see at the site. .

If you aren't confident with what you're measuring and diagramming, you have work to do to gain that confidence.

If I am a good parent and my kid are good kids, I am still calling the other parent when my kid tells me that he is sleeping over a friends house. Confidence is gain by verifying that you did it correctly because by the 100th time you are confident in your assessment. The first time you do it and you are confidence and you do not verify anything then that just getting caught up in the moment.

Reasonable people can disagree and half a discussion.

[Robert Taylor]

In reference to the earlier comment on the reduction on mileage. I was hired on an hourly basis like most of you. Without conversation I was placed into the flat rate fee. At first I complained, however as I got faster with the inspections, the more it was a benefit to me. The quicker the inspections, the more money that you make.

It is also less of a headache documenting starting and ending times, keeping track of mileage etc.. I also get to deduct the entire amount of mileage, gas, vehicle upkeep and so forth I have found this better than keeping track separately of the wages earned, and the amount of mileage paid by the company. Yes you have to keep the receipts, however its no different than doing your regular deductions each year. I maintain all of the receipts, mark on the top Gas, Vehicle Upkeep etc.. Once a week I organize these into file folders and at the end of the year they are ready to go. Being anal from my training, I also enter them into my Word documents to show what the expenditures were for and again at the end of the year they are ready to go,.

The one negative is to be careful. A couple of weeks ago the manager tried to lower the amounts on the external inspections. After a go around I had to show the manager what had been paid consistently in the past and stuck with my guns. Judging from some of the comments earlier, I dont know if this is directly related to Mueller trying to cut corners or if it was a brain freeze that we all experience from time to time.

[Kristi Silber]

Did you calibrate your wheel or assume that it is still accurate?


I haven't come across a wheel that can be calibrated, though they're probably out there. Calibrating means adjusting it to make it accurate, not just verifying whether it is. It's easy to verify accuracy by measuring it against a known quantity, like a measuring tape.



If you get the same measurements then they must be right. If you get different measurements then they are wrong.


This is circular reasoning, not verification. It is impossible to verify square footage against a tax assessor's data because it's a comparison with an unknown quantity: you don't know that they are including the same area in their estimate, or calculating it in the same way. You can have 4 possible outcomes:
- the measurements match and you are both right
- the measurements match and you are both wrong
- the measurements don't match and the tax data is right, but you're wrong
- the measurements don't match and the tax data is wrong, but you're right.

I tried a comparison yesterday with a nice, easy 1.5 story rectangular house. My figure was 1200 sf. The tax figure was 2000 sf. When I used the tax figure instead of my own in the RCT, the replacement cost increased by $80,000 (40%).

You're right that 1/2 stories are estimates. They are based on average building costs. But as soon as you alter a sketch, you increase or decrease not only what you actually measured, but the cost of the foundation and any floor above it. This is not an estimate, this is altering the data. It's not fair to the homeowner.

Why do you think they pay us to measure a risk, when the assessor's numbers are free? And why do you think finished basement is calculated differently from above ground floor space? It's because the walls are already there, so the building cost is different. Same kind of thing for attached garages: it's cheaper to build a garage because the foundation and finishing costs are lower. In reality we are not measuring living area at all, we are estimating building cost.

[Carpenters Helper]

My territory is spread out over parts of four and sometimes even five counties. I have found that counties measure properties differently. Some will give the total footage which includes porches and other attached structures. In my opinion my figures are going to be more accurate than a tax site with the exception being my figures for a 1.5 or 2.5 story house. My footage for the half story is locked in because of how the software works and my measurements. The tax assessor will measure inside and probably be more accurate for that reason on half stories. I still use my figures and never adjust to find agreement with tax assessor numbers. Just my two cents worth.
As for the measuring wheels i do use them when doing a lake house that have piers and docks. On regular houses i find them a bit cumbersome to carry and too finicky on uneven terrain or high grass. I love my laser and the measuring tape is irreplaceble. One method i use on outbuildings is only measuring to the center of the door (if it is centered) and multiply by two. On a lot of outbuildings it is easy to estimate an 8 x 12 or 8 x 8 etc. I have double checked by measuring and it seems that is one of the few talents i have .

[Kristi Silber]

Being able to estimate up to 8 or 12 feet is indeed a nice skill to have! I imagine experience helps with that, too. Having done carpentry is a bonus in many ways.

Replacement costs of half stories aren't proportional to their estimated living area: it costs more than half as much to replace a half story than a full story. I compared a 1.5 story, 1500 SF with a 2 story 2000 SF in the RCT, and it cost about 20 (for basement) or 23% (for slab) more to build the 2 story, not the 33% more you would expect if going strictly by living area. On the other hand, going from a 1 story 1000 SF to 1.5 story 1500 adds about 41% to replacement cost (slab foundation). And it makes sense. When you make a half story into a full story all you're really adding is a few vertical feet of exterior walls, and ceiling joists. Adding a half story means adding (usually) a few vertical feet of exterior walls, all the finish work, and interior walls. Finish work is particularly expensive because of the labor costs.

The point is that whether the estimated living area of a half story is off by +/- 100 SF is less important than whether there is a half story. Living area alone is only part of the picture.


Harvey, I'm glad you said, "Reasonable people can disagree and have a discussion." I don't mean to jump all over you here, I'm just trying to state the case clearly. I'm probably going overboard, :rolleyes: but it seems like an important point and I think new FRs should understand it. FWIW, I brought it up with my manager, and he said our measurements should not be adjusted.

[harvey kelly]

I'm just trying to state the case clearly. I'm probably going overboard, :rolleyes: but it seems like an important point and I think new FRs should understand it. FWIW, I brought it up with my manager, and he said our measurements should not be adjusted.

Then why does Mueller diagram program have a option that you have to put into the diagram that says
* SOME MEASUREMENTS ESTIMATED *
It seems to me that the Rep are allowed to make adjustments in certain circumstances. Situation come up where you can't get an accurate measurement. IE beware dog sign, no access road in back to view back of house, Snow. A row of condo's where you need to get the measurement of one unit. There probably are a few more circumstances. Reps are called on to make estimates and adjustments all the time when drawing that diagram. New FR are gong to be called on to make estimates. I for using anything that will help in making that call. That is my only point.

[Joseph Dalessio]

Then why does Mueller diagram program have a option that you have to put into the diagram that says
* SOME MEASUREMENTS ESTIMATED *
It seems to me that the Rep are allowed to make adjustments in certain circumstances. Situation come up where you can't get an accurate measurement. IE beware dog sign, no access road in back to view back of house, Snow. A row of condo's where you need to get the measurement of one unit. There probably are a few more circumstances. Reps are called on to make estimates and adjustments all the time when drawing that diagram. New FR are gong to be called on to make estimates. I for using anything that will help in making that call. That is my only point.

The estimated measurements are for, as you said, when you are unable to access the property fully due to a fence, dog, terrain, etc. In those cases, you are only meant to estimate if the structure is simple enough that your experience allows you to do so. However, if you have full access to the property, you shouldn't be adjusting the sketch to make your measured square feet match up with the tax records.

As Kristi said, we don't necessarily know what the tax assessors are using to get square feet, or if they were being more or less accurate than us. :)

[Kristi Silber]

Reps are called on to make estimates and adjustments all the time when drawing that diagram.


An estimate is not the same as an adjustment. Reps should never make adjustments, except very minor ones for the purpose of balancing the diagram. Do you say in your report that you adjusted your diagram to come closer to another source of data? If there's a condo you can't access, you are allowed to use other data as long as you report it and name your source, but in that case it's neither an adjustment or an estimate - you're simply using another data source because that's the only option.

[Kurt Hartman]

An estimate is not the same as an adjustment. Reps should never make adjustments, except very minor ones for the purpose of balancing the diagram. Do you say in your report that you adjusted your diagram to come closer to another source of data? If there's a condo you can't access, you are allowed to use other data as long as you report it and name your source, but in that case it's neither an adjustment or an estimate - you're simply using another data source because that's the only option.

KRISTI WORKS FOR MUELLER

[Kristi Silber]

Hee hee, well of course I do! Most of the posters work for Mueller, or are considering it.

Hey, Harvey can do it any way he wants, I don't care. Everybody does the job differently. To me it's all about the other people who read this. This thread has over 40,000 views...maybe 45,000 by now. Many people get their information here when they are starting off, and this discussion has raised some good points.

[Roadie]

I'll start by saying that when I started working for Mueller 1 year ago this month, I was working in 4 counties because I live in a very rural part of my state with nothing but cows and corn. I was putting in a minimum of 12 hours a day between field and office time but was grossing about $6-700 per week with actual fuel costs about $80. For the last several months, however, Mueller has been aggressively finding ways to cut down on their expenses. Now I can appreciate that as I was the owner of a small construction company for 30 years, but it has really hurt my income in the process.

What Mueller has been doing over the last several months is flooding each county with FR's to keep FR's mileage low. They also reduced the mileage allowance. The idea is to keep mileage for each case low to avoid case block errors (fee is below Mueller’s minimum rate of pay). This avoids the need for Mueller to adjust fees upward to keep in compliance with their minimum standard of $12 per hour. As a result, I am only getting an average of about 5 cases per week and since my county is so unpopulated, most of my income is spent on fuel.

I don't see it getting any better so I'm going to apply to several other companies that do the same thing. Ultimately, I'd like to apply as an independent, but at the moment, I can't afford the $3000 per year for Errors & Omissions insurance so I am just going to apply as an employee. With Mueller, I didn't have to send a resume. The Want Add on Craigslist just said to call, did a phone interview and the training began. The other companies all want resumes and I have a few questions regarding my resume.

1. Do I list on my cover letter that I'm currently working part time with another company doing the same thing?
2. If so, do I list Mueller as the company?
3. If not, what's the best way to explain my experience?
4. Do I list Mueller in the employment section of my resume?
5. If so, would I list it as 2011 to 2012 or 2011 to present?

I know this should be simple, but I haven't had to do a resume for almost 30 years and don't know how it works these days and I really need more work. My plan is to be able to save enough money to get my Home Inspection license ($4500 for the required training coarse) and $3000 for insurance so I'll be ready when the housing market picks up. Inspectors in my state are getting on average about $500 per inspection.

Any advice on the resume would be greatly appreciated.

[Robert Taylor]

Do any field reps have a manager that is modifying the time frame that is listed on your inspections by reducing your allotted inspection time and then stating that they will not give you assignments unless you have completed all of your assignments within the reduced time frame?

I am being told that Allstate Urban have to be returned in 4 days. Typically you receive a batch of assignments on Friday and have to turn them in no later than the following Wednesday. The inspection sheet shows a deadline 5 days later.

I am sure that several inspectors have brought up the fact that it is confusing when a due date listed on the assignment is different than what the Manager is demanding of you?

Just wondering if it is throughout Mueller or just a regional thing. Are the reps that are doing the work on time being punished for a few that do not get their assignments in?

[Kristi Silber]

You should definitely list Mueller on your resume, 2011 (plus month you started) to present. Whether you discuss it in your cover letter is kind of up to you, but I would since it's a related field. You can say you're working for them now, but you're interested in other companies doing the same thing because... You might not want to directly say it's because you want more money. You could put something vague, like you're not happy with some of the policy changes during recent months, and leave the particular reasons for the interview. Or perhaps better, put a more positive spin on it and say what you are looking for in a different company, for example, "I would like more cases than Mueller currently provides." Only write that if it's true and you think the other company will provide more cases (hard to know).

It wouldn't hurt to get a resume book out of the library so you can write a good one, and have someone look it over who knows something about resume writing.

Good luck!

[Carlos Pineiro]

Hi...This is my first post here. As a pioneer in the message board world with over 1 million posts since 1993, I can easily say that MBs can be a timesuck. I have hesitated to post here for that reason, but now I'm finally jumping in. I will just shave some FB time down to accommodate IN, lol.

I have been a FR with Mueller for about 6 months. I love my job. From what I have read in this thread, I can divide the posts two ways:

GLASS HALF EMPTY PEOPLE:
1. Pay is low
2. Mileage isn't paid
3. QAs only have bad news
4. Photos take too long to process

GLASS HALF FULL PEOPLE:
1. Pay is fair
2. Mileage is actually accounted for in your pay
3. QAs are teachers
4. Photo time is part of the job.

To expand on that...

1. People who complain that their pay is low should get another job and quit complaining. Mueller backs up what they promise, which includes adjusting your pay to make your time worth at least what they said they would pay you by the hour. If you are still not making enough money, complaining here will not increase your pay.

2. I average about 10 miles a day when I shoot houses. If I had any other job with a 5 mile commute, there wouldn't be mileage pay on my paycheck, but I would still be driving 10 miles to work on my own dime. Average out all your pay including mileage. If you're not making enough, it doesn't matter how many miles were recorded, you just need to make more money to be happy, and that's probably working for someone else.

3. QA people aren't the bad guys. If you don't want so many rejections, stop goofing up so much. One of the great things about this job is that you are not judged by some manager's subjective opinions. Your error % is...what it is. If you have all green stars, you are fine, management leaves you alone, and that's that. If not, Mueller offers training and support to lower your score. It's pretty academic, very supportive, and relieves you of the stress from subjective evaluations that happen other lines of work. The QA people teach me stuff all the time, which allows me to do my job better and make more money.

4. If you keep the resolution way down in your camera, you will still get great shots, and the photos will upload in seconds. Nobody is shooting waterfalls. Lower the quality setting and the entire time issue goes away.

I have enjoyed the almost contact of other FRs here, and appreciate the advice I got from reading some of your posts. Thanks for reading this long, first post. I look forward to returning to IN and having more inspection fun. -Carlos

[Kristi Silber]

Hi Carlos, and Welcome! I'm glad you decided to join us.

The thing that sticks out most for me in your post is that you average 10 miles a day. As many have said already, location is a very important determinate of how much you earn. I think before dividing people up like you have you might consider how often circumstances can contribute to what an FR is paid for time and expenses. They say expenses are paid as part of the fee, but that means that someone who travels 200 miles/wk has lower net income than someone who travels 40 miles/wk, all else being equal. This job doesn't pay everyone the same, so you can judge everyone the same. And it's very hard to find a job these days.

I agree that QA is there to teach us - in theory. But they make too many mistakes lately, which lowers their credibility with me. There are other things they could do that would be more effective.

[Carlos Pineiro]

TY Kristi...You are right. I wasn't considering other locations, and travel time is a real issue. Even the definition of urban/rural is so broad that it will vary greatly. Anyway, the point I was making is that pay is fair if you know what to expect up front. BTW, I never put people in lists...haha. I learned quite a bit just reading stuff here.

[Jessica Sullivan]

Hello All,

Can anyone tell me what questions they ask during the phone interview for Mueller? Thanks ahead of time!

--Jessica

[June of Mueller]

Hi again!

Loving the work so far. Having a blast!

Got my first HV assignment this week. Any tips from the call to set the appointment through the finished report?

Thanks!!

[Carlos Pineiro]

Bigger more expensive properties can be more difficult to physically approach sometimes because they are on a secluded private road or gated property. Make sure you have easy access to find the place when you make the appointment so you are not late. Arriving late which can be real upsetting for some people.

[Richard Jolitz]

So.. reading through this thread I'm curious and this is probably an obvious answer.

are FR for Mueller W-2 employees or 1099?

Are you all paid per job that adjusts to the per hour I see kicked about or are you straight wage?

Thanks.

[Kristi Silber]

Most are employees, but there are contractors, too. We are all paid on a fee basis - the hourly wages people talk about are simply a way to compare what we are able to make in our circumstances.

June, glad you're liking the work! I remember my first HV well. It was a very modern structure and had a huge curved sound barrier covering most of the front. A real challenge to measure and diagram. Take lots of photos and good notes. HVs can be a challenge, and it takes a while to get used to them, so don't be surprised if you spend a lot of time at first. It's all about developing your own method, what works for you. I take notes about each room in abbreviations. One part I find difficult is trying to guess what a good equivalent for something is, because it's not listed in the software - doors and windows particularly.

Something that has not much been talked about in this or the other Mueller thread is personal predilections, styles of doing things generally. After 10 months there, I finally got my field training, ostensibly so I could make more money. I hear they're trying to give everyone field training (or they are checking up on our work!). Anyway, my trainer was good, and I did pick up a few hints, but his style was different from mine. It turns out he makes less hourly than I do (same fees, longer time per case). He does some unnecessary things, like take photos of every room in a normal interior. But that's what he was comfortable with.

My foible is chatting with the homeowner. I enjoy meeting people, and these folks are allowing us into their homes - we see every nook and cranny. I get right to business, but I think homeowners are more forthcoming and helpful with information if you're nice to them, and they love compliments on any facet of their homes. Sometimes you meet interesting people; I’ve even made a few friends while on the job. Often older folks are happy to have a visitor, and are eager to chat. If I talk much, I'll subtract 5 or 10 minutes from my reported time. That doesn't happen often, though.

That raises another issue – how people report their times. I’m sure some are very precise and add up every minute on the phone, printing stuff out, whatever. Others probably estimate. And I believe the (subconscious) desire to feel one is making lots of money causes some to underreport their times so the hourly wage looks high. I try to be good about recording times, but I’m afraid I’m sometimes guilty of both estimating and underreporting. Sometimes it just doesn’t seem worth keeping careful track, when the money is the same regardless. However, it gives Mueller a skewed sense of what is realistic.

[Carpenters Helper]

I would have to agree that one of my weaknesses is conversing with the insured especially on interiors/high values. Recently I did an interior/exterior and met a guy who was stationed where i was in west Texas albeit 4 years removed. He did however know some of the same people that i did and it made for pleasant reminiscing.
As far as the high values I print my own sheets with a space for room name and then sub categories for types of material in the room. In a high value i also photograph each room to aid in the narrative at end of report (unique features). On some of the high values the diagram can be challenging so it is wise to make sure you know where the number of stories changes and get good measurements. I like to do the exterior first and that allows me to confirm any problem measurement areas on the interior.
One question for the other reps on here. Do any of you guys get your pay adjusted because of below scale rates? Since I have had my new manager she insists mueller no longer does this. What she does is add a an adjustment and then subtract that at the end of the week when the rest of the cases you submit averages out to minimums established by mueller.

[Kristi Silber]

I've done the same thing with HVs. It's much easier than flipping back and forth through 18 pages of lists, trying to find what you want. Sometimes those forms drive me crazy. There are 5 (undefined) choices for marble wall tile, but none for slate. You can choose laminate flooring (under "Wood," for some reason), but not engineered wood.

What about site work? Do you guys measure all the driveways and sidewalks and stuff? It's practically impossible to actually measure the area of irrigated yard; I just estimate that.



"What she does is add a an adjustment and then subtract that at the end of the week when the rest of the cases you submit averages out to minimums established by mueller."

Wow, is that even legal? That's really crazy. You might want to ask someone at the Texas Dept. of Labor (or equivalent) about that. I haven't needed to have extra added for a few weeks, so I can't say whether things have changed. When did she tell you this? I don't fully trust anything that Mueller management says.

I've wondered how they calculate the minimum, and what it actually is. I've had paychecks well below the $12 standard. I think there must to two ways they do it: a minimum the software uses when accepting cases, and a separate minimum calculated over time, probably something like a 3-month rolling average, similar to the was error rates are calculated. Wouldn't it be nice if they actually told us these things?:rolleyes:

[Carpenters Helper]

To be honest I dont use any of Mueller forms for types and classes of building materials. Instead I have made my own custom sheets where I have room for 6 rooms to be defined on one sheet of paper. I make tables in microsoft word and leave enter room name at top and then i have made categories under the room name for floors, ceilings, walls, built ins, fireplaces, ceiling fans, and a couple of spaces for mechanical and special features. All I do when i enter a room is fill out the blanks under room name. This is much less tedious than trying to work through all of those confusing lists that are less than intuitive. As far as measuring fences on property I will estimate. Raised patios I will measure and count as patio cover per instructions for some carriers. Driveways I estimate.

As far as how long has my manager been refusing to adjust rates, it has been since she was hired. This is has been at least four or five months. My personal feeling is that managers somehow get rewarded financially or in some other way for minimizing the adjusted fee totals. But again I have to say this is just speculation. When i have a case that needs adjustment her normal strategy is to just push it through without being adjusted which in effect blocks my queue. I have tried to explain this to her to no avail. I have even asked her why Mueller has the pay below scale feature if there is no longer no such adjustment made and she has never answered this question. I am guessing that what Mueller is trying to do here is to have cases behind the case that needs adjusting make up the slack. My old manager who by the way regularly gave me higher rates and always adjusted my pay whenever i sent her a request is much missed. By the way she has won vacations from mueller because of her outstanding work. I sorely miss her.

[Tammy Lorimer]

Hello, I'm a newbie here. I applied with Mueller yesterday through a Craigslist add for my county (Morris, NJ) yesterday. I received a response this afternoon for me to call for a phone interview. I didn't find much negative reviews on the company yesterday (apparently I didn't search in the right places though) but seem to be finding quite a bit of complaints tonight and am beginning to wonder if I am making a mistake applying with them. I am a stay at home mom looking for some part time work while my toddler is in preschool. I have experience of working with insurance companies and was a claims adjuster at my last job before my son was born and thought an insurance inspector sounded interesting. I'm not looking to make a lot of money (I don't need to work but want something to do) and I don't mind hard work but I also don't want to be taken advantage of. I'm happy to see some positive reviews but can someone please tell me if I am wasting my time with Mueller and should look for something else or give them a try? Any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks :confused:

[Ins Inspector]

Hi fellow reps!

New to this board but not new to Mueller. I have read most of the posts in this thread and wanted to add my two cents.


As far as how long has my manager been refusing to adjust rates, it has been since she was hired. This is has been at least four or five months. My personal feeling is that managers somehow get rewarded financially or in some other way for minimizing the adjusted fee totals. But again I have to say this is just speculation.

Yes managers do get compensated for minimizing fees. Mueller will charge a flat rate for doing a survey to the insurance company. Out of that fee they keep a percentage for themselves and the remainder is split between the manager and the FR. The less the manager adjusts your pay then more they keep for themselves. If you are not compensated at a minimum of $12 an hour for your work then you need to complain to someone higher then your manager. Reps are hired with the guarantee to make that minimum so it is your right to do so. I would also suggest that you should always calculate your hourly rate every pay to make sure that you are making the minimum. I check every pay and have found several that have not met the minimum.

[Joseph Dalessio]

Hi fellow reps!

New to this board but not new to Mueller. I have read most of the posts in this thread and wanted to add my two cents.



Yes managers do get compensated for minimizing fees. Mueller will charge a flat rate for doing a survey to the insurance company. Out of that fee they keep a percentage for themselves and the remainder is split between the manager and the FR. The less the manager adjusts your pay then more they keep for themselves. If you are not compensated at a minimum of $12 an hour for your work then you need to complain to someone higher then your manager. Reps are hired with the guarantee to make that minimum so it is your right to do so. I would also suggest that you should always calculate your hourly rate every pay to make sure that you are making the minimum. I check every pay and have found several that have not met the minimum.

Are you sure that's how the manager pay works? I was under the impression they were on a salary. Is that split fee part of a bonus they get?

[harvey kelly]

Hello, I'm a newbie here. I applied with Mueller yesterday through a Craigslist add for my county (Morris, NJ) yesterday. I received a response this afternoon for me to call for a phone interview. I didn't find much negative reviews on the company yesterday (apparently I didn't search in the right places though) but seem to be finding quite a bit of complaints tonight and am beginning to wonder if I am making a mistake applying with them. I am a stay at home mom looking for some part time work while my toddler is in preschool. I have experience of working with insurance companies and was a claims adjuster at my last job before my son was born and thought an insurance inspector sounded interesting. I'm not looking to make a lot of money (I don't need to work but want something to do) and I don't mind hard work but I also don't want to be taken advantage of. I'm happy to see some positive reviews but can someone please tell me if I am wasting my time with Mueller and should look for something else or give them a try? Any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks :confused:


It is easy work if you don't mind traveling and working outdoors. You generally make up your own schedule within the window that they give you to complete the job. If you are looking to get out of the house and earn a few bucks then this may work for you. It will depend on how much work they will have available in your area. Give them a call and see if this is what you are looking for. You can always say no, if it is not what you want. Good luck.

[Mueller Fieldrep]

Hey Fellow Field Reps, been away for a while and had a chance to catch up today. I think I can help out with the pay issue. As far as the message you get regarding a pay level below your pay scale. Here is the deal. Mueller does not want you to earn less than $12 per hour. Let say you have a $3 occupancy case that take 20 minutes between travel time and office time. That only works out to $9 per hour. As you add more cases, yor pay scale will go up and the system will allow you to submit the case.

Now, there is another problem some of you mentioned. If you are not earning at least $12 per hour, something is wrong and you NEED to speak with your manager about it. You should be receiving a mix of cases that gets you to that hourly wage. Having said all that, you can earn much more than $12 per hour if you make good use of your time. I have not earned less than $20 per hour since the first month I worked for Mueller. Don't jump all over me and tell me that isn't possible. I have prior experience in the business and went thorugh the training in about 25 hours. Not saying I am special, I just knew the information and could get through it quicker.

In regards to the changes that Mueller has made. They suck and I hate to be the one to say it. more bad changes are coming. The $3 cases are horrible and are costing me money since they don't take the 5 minutes they are supposed to. They are never close and you have only 3, sometimes 2 days to complete them. This means you are going to an area that was not planned when you made your appointments. I work in an urban area so these cases are usually close. However, since I get all my fieldwork completed in the few days after it's issued, I get these cases and have no other work in the area. This is becoming an issue and I have made it clear to my manager that it needs to change. I know someone who works with one of these companies and found out what Mueller is being paid for these cases (PM me and I will give the amounts). It is almost criminal what we are being paid for these types of cases. This wouldn't be the case if they assigned at the same time as other cases.

This brings me to another issue. I have been to homes for exterior surveys. As per policy, I always knock when I reach the property. On multiple occasions in the recent weeks, I have been told by the propery owner that Mueller was there last week or a few weeks ago. When I questioned my manager about, they hemmed and hawed and provided a BS response. Basically, Mueller is checking on it's employees.

Lets switch gears for a minute. I have some tips for the new field reps and maybe some information for the people who want to work for Muller.

First, always knock at the front door of the home. I know it's policy but it's real easy to ignore policy when you are in a hurry. Some people have nothing better to do than sit and look outside all day. Neighbors will call the policyholder, police can show up or you can just walk into a yard with a pool and happen to see the policyhlder and his wife swimming au natural. It happens. I don't agree with all of the policies but this is a good one.

High Value Surveys - These should take you no more than 45 minutes on site and at the very most, an hour office time. I usually get them complete in about 90 minutes total. I also complete 6 or 7 a week. They get easier.

Don't be a pain to your manager. They have 80 people just like you. As someone said above, don't be that squeaky wheel.

QA - where do I begin. The people who work in QA can't stand me. This isn't a guess. I have been told my manager that my responses to my rejections are not welcome. I am not sure about this, an I have been unable to find an answer, but I believe when QA receives your cases, your name or number is not attached. This has to be the case since QA would then begin forming an opinion about the field rep and that would be prejudicial. If I disagree with QA (who doesn't) I will not change my notes or diagram. As my manager has told me, I was at the house, I measured the house, I saw the house. My manager has backed me up on this numerous times.

I know my manager reads this and I know that the owners probably have it saved a favorite. Please pay attention to this. I have been with Mueller for a while and I like my job, I like my manager. They pay is competitive and you can make your own schedule. Overall it's a good job.

We want and need feedback other than red light green light. Please stop keeping us in the dark about changes within the company. As people above have noted, we get nervous with management changes. I don't know who said it, but one person above has had 8 managers. That's Burger King material. You guys say you are the leader in the field. How about telling your employees that? How about realizing that your employees are your most valuable assets? We aren't asking for more money, what we are asking for costs nothing. How about an email thanking us for our hard work. How about saying you understand how hard it is to work in a thunderstorm or 8 inches of snow.

I saw that someone above mentioned above that office employess have a on site yoga class. Was this a joke, plese tell me it is since we can't even get a shirt, jacket or hat that identifies us as employees.

Now that I am done with my rant, if anyone would like information I would happy to respond.

[Joseph Dalessio]

This brings me to another issue. I have been to homes for exterior surveys. As per policy, I always knock when I reach the property. On multiple occasions in the recent weeks, I have been told by the propery owner that Mueller was there last week or a few weeks ago. When I questioned my manager about, they hemmed and hawed and provided a BS response. Basically, Mueller is checking on it's employees.

I saw that someone above mentioned above that office employess have a on site yoga class. Was this a joke, plese tell me it is since we can't even get a shirt, jacket or hat that identifies us as employees.


I believe they do audits on field reps from time to time. As for the office employees, I thought I had seen that somewhere as well, and I completely agree with you - field reps should absolutely be getting a shirt/hat/something of substance to identify you as an employee - it gets tiring constantly appearing/sounding suspicious (I still haven't found a way to make appointment calls not sound sketchy...).

Also, somewhat off topic, but what is everyone's preferred method of dealing with rain. I don't mind that I get wet, but the second paper gets even slightly damp, it becomes near impossible to write/draw on it. Umbrellas are to clumsy to really work, and I have tried a bag, but found it difficult to see what I was doing. Does anyone just stop working once the rain gets too heavy?

[Carlos Pineiro]

I believe they do audits on field reps from time to time. As for the office employees, I thought I had seen that somewhere as well, and I completely agree with you - field reps should absolutely be getting a shirt/hat/something of substance to identify you as an employee - it gets tiring constantly appearing/sounding suspicious (I still haven't found a way to make appointment calls not sound sketchy...).

Also, somewhat off topic, but what is everyone's preferred method of dealing with rain. I don't mind that I get wet, but the second paper gets even slightly damp, it becomes near impossible to write/draw on it. Umbrellas are to clumsy to really work, and I have tried a bag, but found it difficult to see what I was doing. Does anyone just stop working once the rain gets too heavy?

Re: working in the rain, I have the laminated diagram sheet I got in training and use it, clipped to the board, to cover the paper underneath. If you really want to work a long time in the rain, you can always put a piece of typewriting carbon paper (yes, they still sell this) and a piece of paper in a sheet protector, then draw right on the sheet protector in the rain. It rains 200 days a year where I live, so I've sketched a lot in the rain. There's less traffic.

[Mueller Fieldrep]

I believe they do audits on field reps from time to time. As for the office employees, I thought I had seen that somewhere as well, and I completely agree with you - field reps should absolutely be getting a shirt/hat/something of substance to identify you as an employee - it gets tiring constantly appearing/sounding suspicious (I still haven't found a way to make appointment calls not sound sketchy...).

Also, somewhat off topic, but what is everyone's preferred method of dealing with rain. I don't mind that I get wet, but the second paper gets even slightly damp, it becomes near impossible to write/draw on it. Umbrellas are to clumsy to really work, and I have tried a bag, but found it difficult to see what I was doing. Does anyone just stop working once the rain gets too heavy?

We have had a few days here where it gets too bad to work outside. I used giant zip loc bags from walmart. My entire clipboard can fit inside and there is still enough room to write. I don't mind working in the rain. Lightning is another story. I take my lunch with me so if its raining that hard, I will just pull over and eat.

[Mr. Fieldrep]

Ok guys, here is my first post: I've been with Mueller for 2.5 years and here's my two cents.

Rainy days, a day for staying home and inputting cases. But when I have to go out in the rain, I use waterproof paper. Its a bit expensive but worth it. 200 sheets for $30 but I can fit several diagrams on it when needed. It can downpour on the paper and no problem. I use an erasable pen or a pencil. Here is a link to buy:
Rite In The Rain Paper & Waterproof Pens - Fast Delivery (http://www.waterproofpaper.com/rite-in-the-rain.html)

As several have said, time is money and efficiency is the key. Dont get bogged down in things that are not needed. Go out during the week day when people are not home. Takes less time not interviewing. When you do here is my quick pitch: "Hi Ms. Jones, I'm John Doe with Mueller Services on behalf of ABC Insurance Company and your agent XYZ. They've asked me to come out and ask you a few quick questions, take some measurements and take a picture of the front and back of the house. Can you tell me approximately what year the house was built?" Then quickly go into the other questions like # of baths, heat type, etc. You make it sound very routine and I rarely get any objections.

If you have been doing this for a while you should be able to rattle off the questions in your sleep. If you are new, make up a form and print it out on the back of your ticket. Take pictures of all major and minor hazards, even if you think its not necessary, much better than having to go back out for some reason for things like overhanging trees, missing downspouts, no railings on porches and stairs. You all know the deal.

I use Microsoft streets and trips, a must to calculate the most efficient route for the day. I hope you all use a GPS in your car. I also use a laser measuring device. Haven't used a wheel in more than 2 years. Gets tricky sometimes but you learn the tricks but not all laser devices are created equal. If you are thinking about one make sure it has a tilt sensor. This way you can shoot the point high or low and it will calculate it as if it is straight. Example: Measuring the front wall and there is a bush in front of you. Point to the gutter above at the end of the wall and that's it. For those who don't use one, you have to bounce the laser off something to get a measurement such as an adjacent wall, window sill, gutter, etc.

I average about $20 per hour. For you newbies it will take a while to get there and then it will depend on the nature of your territory, urban or rural.

Yea me too, rather be out in the field than inside doing reports but gotta get paid. I download my pictures into folders named with the date they were taken, makes for easy finding. Also, make sure your digital camera has the correct date and time setting especially now for needing to add the time info.

Well that's it for now. Hope this is helpful for some..

[Mueller Fieldrep]

Ok guys, here is my first post: I've been with Mueller for 2.5 years and here's my two cents.

Rainy days, a day for staying home and inputting cases. But when I have to go out in the rain, I use waterproof paper. Its a bit expensive but worth it. 200 sheets for $30 but I can fit several diagrams on it when needed. It can downpour on the paper and no problem. I use an erasable pen or a pencil. Here is a link to buy:
Rite In The Rain Paper & Waterproof Pens - Fast Delivery (http://www.waterproofpaper.com/rite-in-the-rain.html)

As several have said, time is money and efficiency is the key. Dont get bogged down in things that are not needed. Go out during the week day when people are not home. Takes less time not interviewing. When you do here is my quick pitch: "Hi Ms. Jones, I'm John Doe with Mueller Services on behalf of ABC Insurance Company and your agent XYZ. They've asked me to come out and ask you a few quick questions, take some measurements and take a picture of the front and back of the house. Can you tell me approximately what year the house was built?" Then quickly go into the other questions like # of baths, heat type, etc. You make it sound very routine and I rarely get any objections.

If you have been doing this for a while you should be able to rattle off the questions in your sleep. If you are new, make up a form and print it out on the back of your ticket. Take pictures of all major and minor hazards, even if you think its not necessary, much better than having to go back out for some reason for things like overhanging trees, missing downspouts, no railings on porches and stairs. You all know the deal.

I use Microsoft streets and trips, a must to calculate the most efficient route for the day. I hope you all use a GPS in your car. I also use a laser measuring device. Haven't used a wheel in more than 2 years. Gets tricky sometimes but you learn the tricks but not all laser devices are created equal. If you are thinking about one make sure it has a tilt sensor. This way you can shoot the point high or low and it will calculate it as if it is straight. Example: Measuring the front wall and there is a bush in front of you. Point to the gutter above at the end of the wall and that's it. For those who don't use one, you have to bounce the laser off something to get a measurement such as an adjacent wall, window sill, gutter, etc.

I average about $20 per hour. For you newbies it will take a while to get there and then it will depend on the nature of your territory, urban or rural.

Yea me too, rather be out in the field than inside doing reports but gotta get paid. I download my pictures into folders named with the date they were taken, makes for easy finding. Also, make sure your digital camera has the correct date and time setting especially now for needing to add the time info.

Well that's it for now. Hope this is helpful for some..


Hey Mr. Fieldrep,
It seems we have both been with Mueller around the same time. Maybe we can trade some secrets. Have you met any other field reps? Just a general answer, but what part of the country are you in?Have you had any of these new occupancy verification surveys yet?

[Carlos Pineiro]

Ok guys, here is my first post: I've been with Mueller for 2.5 years and here's my two cents.

Rainy days, a day for staying home and inputting cases. But when I have to go out in the rain, I use waterproof paper. Its a bit expensive but worth it. 200 sheets for $30 but I can fit several diagrams on it when needed. It can downpour on the paper and no problem. I use an erasable pen or a pencil. Here is a link to buy:
Rite In The Rain Paper & Waterproof Pens - Fast Delivery (http://www.waterproofpaper.com/rite-in-the-rain.html)

...

Thanks, Mr. FR...I used the waterproof paper from RITR as you suggested today and it works great. Pretty slick stuff. It will rain at some point on most field days where I live from now until April, and this stuff makes it that much easier. I also got the waterproof pen, but a pencil works great too. If anyone thinks $30 is too much of an investment, consider this: if you wasted a whole sheet just for one house, that's 6.6 cents not to have your sketch melt in the rain while you scramble to write while leaning over the board. CP

[MRausch82]

I have been with Mueller for nearly a year. You can make money if you know how to. That said, it is slowing down for me right now, and I am concerned. I have an extremely rural territory which makes it difficult. My advantage is that I know my territory. I don't think Mueller quite understands the territory I cover and the roads I travel, i.e. dirt, gravel, mud, mountain roads, seasonal roads, etc. All of which add time to things. Aside from that, I like the job. I'd like to find some extra work, however. Anyone have any suggestions? PM me if so. I'd also like to meet some other Mueller folks in my area.

[Kristi Silber]

Speaking to the earlier topic of Mueller "minimum wage" - the last few weeks I've been earning $10/hr. Yes, $10/hr. Someone got fired, and they need people to cover the territory, so my mileage and drive time are much higher. Plus I had a few problematic cases, don't know the area, and apparently neither does my GPS. I spent October in Europe and got back to a new manager, new territory, and was totally discombobulated and everything went wrong. But anyway, what I was getting to is that I think the $12/hour minimum might be a running average. I was making enough before to make up for it. Either that or they ignore it and hope no one notices.

This time of year is slow, until about February. People don't buy houses around the holidays.

[Carlos Pineiro]

As I understand compensation from the general terms I read and discussed early on, you can only make more than your hourly wage, not less. This isn't only logical, it seems the only way to legally pay w2 employees. In other words, if you can complete multiple cases quickly, you might make more than your hourly wage, but if long drive times/distances cause a lower hourly rate (due in part to the mileage rate and/or traffic), then the company should compensate you for the balance to reach the hourly rate you were hired at.

[MRausch82]

I spent October in Europe and got back to a new manager, new territory, and was totally discombobulated and everything went wrong.

This time of year is slow, until about February. People don't buy houses around the holidays.
You had that issue as well? I wonder if you and I have the same manager, or if something bigger happened? As for being slow, I hope it is just the time of year... I usually have something assigned, but nothing in the past week. I have a few cases left over, but they'll be complete by Friday.

[Mueller Fieldrep]

Speaking to the earlier topic of Mueller "minimum wage" - the last few weeks I've been earning $10/hr. Yes, $10/hr. Someone got fired, and they need people to cover the territory, so my mileage and drive time are much higher. Plus I had a few problematic cases, don't know the area, and apparently neither does my GPS. I spent October in Europe and got back to a new manager, new territory, and was totally discombobulated and everything went wrong. But anyway, what I was getting to is that I think the $12/hour minimum might be a running average. I was making enough before to make up for it. Either that or they ignore it and hope no one notices.

This time of year is slow, until about February. People don't buy houses around the holidays.


Hi Kristi its been a while. In regards to your manager, things are happening. Some of the dead wood is being moved out. Did your manager just move or are they no longer with Mueller?

From what I understand, Mueller is moving people around and combining areas. I am not real happy with this since there is a chance my manager will change and that is something I don't want.

Hopefully it will pick up soon and you will get some more cases. If you aren't making more than $12 per hour, your manager should be adjusting your fees to get you to that point. Managers are given a fee for each case. You get a part, Mueller gets a part and your manager gets the rest.

Have you made your manager aware of the fact you have dropped below $12 per hour?

[MRausch82]

My previous manager was moved to a field rep position, apparently by choice. No idea what happened there. I really like my manager now. She does a good job I feel. I hope she is not going to be moved or worse...

[Kristi Silber]

Sorry it's taken me a while to reply. I've been busy, and trying to stay away from chatting to much online.

I did bring up the wage issue with my manager. She said $10/hr is my "base wage," whatever that is. She and I are going to discuss in on the phone tomorrow.

Apparently I'm working very inefficiently, with times quite a lot higher than average. Averages including desk and site time are 45 min. for an int/ext, 30 for ext., 2 hours for HVs, and 16 min. each for OV and ext. without diagram. Does this strike anyone else as odd? 45,30,120,16,16. They are all very nice, round numbers. Averages usually aren't so...average.

OK, now I have to vent!

I HATE the territory I have now. It's bigger than my old one, and centered 20 miles north of me, my cases scattered all over the place. I hadn't even heard of some of the towns I work in. I drive 60-70 miles every day I go out. The houses are mostly in new developments, and have that atrocious complexity the suburban wealthy seem to favor these days. Instead of 2-components, there are 10. Hybrid garages, cathedral ceilings, overhangs everywhere. A foot of snow fell last weekend and for some reason these developments don't get plowed. Measuring tape full of ice. Paranoid people not permitting inspections. I've had 5 cases for risks that haven't even been closed on. It has not been fun, and I'm making squat.:mad:

Whew. Nice to get that off my chest. Thanks, guys!

I did finally splurge and order a nice laser measuring device that has a function for indirect measurements using the pythagorean theorem, so you can measure a wall with nothing but the wall to aim it at.:)

[Carlos Pineiro]

Sorry it's taken me a while to reply. I've been busy, and trying to stay away from chatting to much online.

I did bring up the wage issue with my manager. She said $10/hr is my "base wage," whatever that is. She and I are going to discuss in on the phone tomorrow.

Apparently I'm working very inefficiently, with times quite a lot higher than average. Averages including desk and site time are 45 min. for an int/ext, 30 for ext., 2 hours for HVs, and 16 min. each for OV and ext. without diagram. Does this strike anyone else as odd? 45,30,120,16,16. They are all very nice, round numbers. Averages usually aren't so...average.

OK, now I have to vent!

I HATE the territory I have now. It's bigger than my old one, and centered 20 miles north of me, my cases scattered all over the place. I hadn't even heard of some of the towns I work in. I drive 60-70 miles every day I go out. The houses are mostly in new developments, and have that atrocious complexity the suburban wealthy seem to favor these days. Instead of 2-components, there are 10. Hybrid garages, cathedral ceilings, overhangs everywhere. A foot of snow fell last weekend and for some reason these developments don't get plowed. Measuring tape full of ice. Paranoid people not permitting inspections. I've had 5 cases for risks that haven't even been closed on. It has not been fun, and I'm making squat.:mad:

Whew. Nice to get that off my chest. Thanks, guys!

I did finally splurge and order a nice laser measuring device that has a function for indirect measurements using the pythagorean theorem, so you can measure a wall with nothing but the wall to aim it at.:)

Hi kristi,

I also drive 50-60 miles. Luckily, there's ko traffic to speak of, but I do drive/work in the rain 5 months a year which can be challenging sometimes, but not anywhere near as bad as traffic.

West of me is easy sketches with bilev boxes on slabs but in the hills south of me it's sketch hell. Round rooms, architechural multi-level decks, multi foundations and everybody is on a hillside. If it's 3:30 and one of those houses answers the door, it's my last house for sure. As soon as I open the side gate and look down the hill and see a pool past the gazebo and some crazy deckwork, there's no chance I'm makingbit to the next house by sunset not this month, anyway).

I don't think the numbers you mentioned are surprising, but there really isnt a set rule on time since areas, driving, risks, and territory size can vary. Some houses take me 10min, and some take 35. If you are concerned about your desk time, look at ways to maybe shave a few min by uploading pics in a faster browser or even shooting smaller res pics. I use two monitors and frequently use one for pics of the risk while I sketch on the other. It makes the multi component risks go faster. I also use the second monitor as a pallete for survey remarks and notes.

Good luck out there and happy holidays. :)

[Kristi Silber]

Hi Carlos!

Rain would be a hassle, for sure. Waterproof paper would be a worthy investment, for sure! Even with snow I often manage to get wet paper. I think I even have a Write-In-The-Rain notebook somewhere from my days studying rainforest, I should dig it out.

I suppose if traffic isn't an issue, you're probably on rural highways a lot? Or is it just a small community? I usually have over 2 hours drive time for 8-12 cases. I can't wait until the days get longer!

I didn't mean that the averages were surprising in the length of time they represent, I meant that averages are usually numbers like 47.4 or 31. They aren't nice, round multiples of quarter hours, or identical for two different tasks. That makes me think that they aren't really showing us a calculated average. It could be near that, and perhaps they are rounding off. I'm skeptical by nature.

"there really isnt a set rule on time since areas, driving, risks, and territory size can vary"
That's what I'm trying to get across to my manager. I was doing fine before getting this new territory.

Thanks for the tips. I have been using two computers sometimes, or open the sketch window before choosing the photos and sketch while they upload. I use the lowest size photos.

Wouldn't it be nice if there were somewhere on the Mueller site where FRs could post their tips?

My manager told me a couple weeks ago about a way to sketch without a mouse; the keypad and arrows are used instead. That will make things faster especially once I get used to it. Crazy that they don't teach it in training! It still doesn't fix the problem of the software making assumptions. Do other people have a problem with long thin rectangles being turned into triangles?

And speaking of software problems, I find that sometimes if I scroll through photos too quickly using the scroll bar, it causes my browser to close. And sometimes if I click on one of the thumbnails at the very top of the screen, it doesn't open and I can no longer scroll through the report. I have to close the survey and reopen it. Do others have this happen?

[Carlos Pineiro]

Hi Carlos!

Rain would be a hassle, for sure. Waterproof paper would be a worthy investment, for sure! Even with snow I often manage to get wet paper. I think I even have a Write-In-The-Rain notebook somewhere from my days studying rainforest, I should dig it out.

I suppose if traffic isn't an issue, you're probably on rural highways a lot? Or is it just a small community? I usually have over 2 hours drive time for 8-12 cases. I can't wait until the days get longer!

I didn't mean that the averages were surprising in the length of time they represent, I meant that averages are usually numbers like 47.4 or 31. They aren't nice, round multiples of quarter hours, or identical for two different tasks. That makes me think that they aren't really showing us a calculated average. It could be near that, and perhaps they are rounding off. I'm skeptical by nature.



"there really isnt a set rule on time since areas, driving, risks, and territory size can vary"
That's what I'm trying to get across to my manager. I was doing fine before getting this new territory.

Thanks for the tips. I have been using two computers sometimes, or open the sketch window before choosing the photos and sketch while they upload. I use the lowest size photos.

Wouldn't it be nice if there were somewhere on the Mueller site where FRs could post their tips?

My manager told me a couple weeks ago about a way to sketch without a mouse; the keypad and arrows are used instead. That will make things faster especially once I get used to it. Crazy that they don't teach it in training! It still doesn't fix the problem of the software making assumptions. Do other people have a problem with long thin rectangles being turned into triangles?

And speaking of software problems, I find that sometimes if I scroll through photos too quickly using the scroll bar, it causes my browser to close. And sometimes if I click on one of the thumbnails at the very top of the screen, it doesn't open and I can no longer scroll through the report. I have to close the survey and reopen it. Do others have this happen?
I live 7 miles west of portland. If I drive 20 min east, there are parking meters and flashing walk signs and merging interstates. If I drive 40 min west I'm in farmland, cows and all. 15 min more and I'm in the mountains going to a christmas tree farm. Most of my cases are in the burbs, with a few farmhouses thrown in. I am very fortunate to live, drive and work in a beautiful place. Driving is actually a hobby (I built my car, another hobby), so I dont mind driving at all. It would be nice if we got $20 a mile but oh well...

I can't use the little thumbnails, they never come up. I just use the source folder on the other screen (it's an extended screen, actually) and view pics there. Another prob is that when I use the scroll wheel to zoom in sketch, the toolbar doesnt stick so it zoom! Flys off the screen. I can only use the actual zoom tool with a hundred clicks to reposition a sketch and it's a mini time-suck. The sketch software is not horrible, but a modern one would be cool. The new photo uploader is an improvement from the dinosaur age thing we were using before with the lableing tool from 1983. Any upgrade in mueller software will be great and will happen eventually.

If you are having a numbers issue, you will be surprised how easily you can improve them with not much effort. You may not double your %, but a few points into the green feels like a lot.

[Kristi Silber]

Another prob is that when I use the scroll wheel to zoom in sketch, the toolbar doesnt stick so it zoom! Flys off the screen. I can only use the actual zoom tool with a hundred clicks to reposition a sketch and it's a mini time-suck. The sketch software is not horrible, but a modern one would be cool.

If you are having a numbers issue, you will be surprised how easily you can improve them with not much effort. You may not double your %, but a few points into the green feels like a lot.


I'm glad I'm not the only one who has trouble with zooming in the sketch tool! I don't remember it being such a problem before, but now it's a real hassle. I thought it was just me doing something wrong.

Not sure what you mean by numbers issue and %.

I love Oregon! Wish I were driving around there. My outer 'burbs territory is flat and boring, housing developments interspersed with strip malls and hay fields. I just hope they fill the position soon, so I can get back to a territory I know well.

[Kevn Horton]

Hello everyone and Merry Christmas (2012)
I am new to this board so sorry if I F it up
I have been reading all the post here dated back to 2007 or so and there is a lot of talk about Mueller sounds like they pay like crap..
I am here in So. Calif and they have advertisments running of which I have applyed to and then never heard back from them. ( maybe a good thing )
MY Background : I have been doing Mortgage Field service work for a few years and than last year went to full time as a contractor doing Homeowners Insurance inspections for one company, where I take photos ( front, right, left. &, back if homewoner is home and an address number) then do a 5-10min online form with sqft drawing, & down load the photos, for which I get 20.00 to 65.00 depending on the destance I have to drive, I do 120 to 170 a month, I work in the fireld
2-3days (8-10Hrs, ea.) doing 40-50 jbs per day and then on the computer 2 days ( 6-7 hrs, ea) I also do a few Commercial inspections a week that pay 50.00 -125.00 but take more time, however if I plan right I can slip them into my reg day.
I am looking for more work maybe one day a week 40-50 more jobs
does anyone know were I can go to find other compines that do work in my area ( Bakersfield, Lancaster, Barstow, etc.)
thanks for your help
Kevn

[Carlos Pineiro]

Hello everyone and Merry Christmas (2012)
I am new to this board so sorry if I F it up
I have been reading all the post here dated back to 2007 or so and there is a lot of talk about Mueller sounds like they pay like crap..
I am here in So. Calif and they have advertisments running of which I have applyed to and then never heard back from them. ( maybe a good thing )
MY Background : I have been doing Mortgage Field service work for a few years and than last year went to full time as a contractor doing Homeowners Insurance inspections for one company, where I take photos ( front, right, left. &, back if homewoner is home and an address number) then do a 5-10min online form with sqft drawing, & down load the photos, for which I get 20.00 to 65.00 depending on the destance I have to drive, I do 120 to 170 a month, I work in the fireld
2-3days (8-10Hrs, ea.) doing 40-50 jbs per day and then on the computer 2 days ( 6-7 hrs, ea) I also do a few Commercial inspections a week that pay 50.00 -125.00 but take more time, however if I plan right I can slip them into my reg day.
I am looking for more work maybe one day a week 40-50 more jobs
does anyone know were I can go to find other compines that do work in my area ( Bakersfield, Lancaster, Barstow, etc.)
thanks for your help
Kevn

50 jobs a day in the field? Wow Kev, You have quite an imagination. LOL.

[Kristi Silber]

I want Kevn's job! Where do you get the sq ft drawing for the online form if you're only taking photos?

[Liz Fass]

Hi All, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! I've been with Mueller for a little over a year and I love my job. I find it a little odd though that we aren't encouraged to know the other field reps in our areas. I've never met anyone from my area. I guess they're encouraging you to work on your own.

Either way, to the person that posted about the waterproof paper, thank you so much! I cannot tell you how frustrating it is when your paper starts to dissolve on you.

Anyhow, would love to chat with other field reps. This is the first I've heard of the $3 report. I'm wondering if they aren't in my area and that's why.

Thanks for listening.:)

[Garry Sorrells]

Liz,
Management 101 :
-Keep the employees separated so that they do not get to informed of the operation. -What the employees know is only what you tell them.
-Make any conflict with what you tell them a reflection on their job performance and their lack of organizational skills to increase production.
-Never have employees discussing what they are making, it only breeds discontent.

Like the manager that went to field work. The party line was that it was their choice/decision. Translation: Their choice to go into the field or out the door.

[Kristi Silber]

Hi Liz, and welcome!

What Garry said, plus

- not all managers are the same, and they don't want that comparison. For example, some give extra fees when a case (or cases) goes particularly slowly for some reason (long drive or whatever), and some don't. My old one did, but my new one just said I could switch to a $12/hr flat rate if I wanted, and

- they probably worry about FRs sharing their secrets for cutting corners.

I had a chance to look at a HV case linked to mine that was completed by another FR. Same house, but far less information and some big mistakes. It became clear then why I apparently take longer than others to do the same survey (it was also completed in 2010, when there were fewer requirements - no tagging of photos or site work, for instance. Same fees, though!).

The $3 jobs were temporary. No one should have those anymore.

[Liz Fass]

Thanks Guys, Happy New Year. I guess from their perspective that's a good thing and you're probably right Kristi. God forbid we should share our secrets and help out a newbie ;). I'm just glad I've connected with other reps. It's isolated work to begin with and I always worked in offices with co workers. I don't miss the back biting that comes with that at all. And I suppose it's good because sometimes I get cases where I have to go and correct someone else's mistakes and I'm thinking... Holy crap! Were they on drugs? Or they call me in to sooth an angry PH because the previous FR was really rude. Those are sometimes a little hard because I'm literally shocked at how some reps conduct themselves. I don't care how little you're making, you're still supposed to be a professional. It's my experience, that you never know who's door you're knocking on. It could very well be your next opportunity in life.

Kristi, what is your biggest pet peeve though (aside from no shows). I'm curious.

[Liz Fass]

Kristi, just responding to your post about times...

Apparently I'm working very inefficiently, with times quite a lot higher than average. Averages including desk and site time are 45 min. for an int/ext, 30 for ext., 2 hours for HVs, and 16 min. each for OV and ext. without diagram. Does this strike anyone else as odd? 45,30,120,16,16. They are all very nice, round numbers. Averages usually aren't so...average.

Those times are impossible. An interior/exterior 45 min (including phone calls and inspection)? I average 20-30 min on those without desk time. Not to mention since the hurricane we can't close anything out. I have to keep calling people who have no intention of getting back to me.

HV's drive me crazy with the narratives. They usually take an 2 hours just to upload if you're doing it properly and not going to get a rejection.

frustrating....

[Carlos Pineiro]

Kristi, just responding to your post about times...

Apparently I'm working very inefficiently, with times quite a lot higher than average. Averages including desk and site time are 45 min. for an int/ext, 30 for ext., 2 hours for HVs, and 16 min. each for OV and ext. without diagram. Does this strike anyone else as odd? 45,30,120,16,16. They are all very nice, round numbers. Averages usually aren't so...average.

Those times are impossible. An interior/exterior 45 min (including phone calls and inspection)? I average 20-30 min on those without desk time. Not to mention since the hurricane we can't close anything out. I have to keep calling people who have no intention of getting back to me.

HV's drive me crazy with the narratives. They usually take an 2 hours just to upload if you're doing it properly and not going to get a rejection.

frustrating....

Hi Liz,

I like to talk to other reps here, but wont discuss $$ or evals with any specificity in respect to the rules, but it's nice to know you secretly aren't the only one out there with a clipboard and a wheel, lol.

My first HV took forever in a mansion with muti wigs etc. A frikin sketch nightmare and a house that had every element and component on every worksheet. I immediatly copied the narratives and added them to my personal stamps page in word. I use a second monitor (which windows recognizes and extends) and keep my page on the second monitor as a palette. I copy/paste the narratives and change the amonts etc to fit the case you're working on. Even the Special Features narrative has a base script as 90% of my HVs have Oak flooring, customhigh-end appliances, etc. With a few minor changes from the notes you took, the whole narrative thing is done in a few min. As long as the info is accurate, it's ok.

The link on the top left of the online ticket (Address To Survey) is a link to google maps of the risk. Add the words, "fire stations near" directly in front of the addy in the addy bar in google maps and google will list them with names and miles from risk, closest first.

You might know all this but it's an fyi for anybody. The more you do the more efficient you become...good luck with your times, it will improve, and the "average" may not be comparable to others if your area is really sketch heavy. A chat w your manager may help. Good luck. :)

[Liz Fass]

Hey Carlos, nice to meet you. Thank you for the tips, I really appreciate it. My problem is that people like to talk to me. I think I have tell me your life story tattooed on my forehead (just kidding).

I agree about discussing $$ and specific evals is dangerous. This is a public forum after all and I really do love what I do. I'd hate if I got fired over something like that. However, it is nice to have other Reps to talk to and possibly vent if needed. Not everyone understands what we do. It's not complicated but it's also not for everyone. I know plenty of people who would freak out at the idea of walking into someone's backyard or even knock on their door. I do find most of the time though being a woman can be an asset. Which is also unsettling at the same time. It's amazing how people will tell you everything. For instance, when I make an appointment with someone and they're going to be away, I've been given exact days of when they'll be away and where they're going. I want to say don't tell me that! You don't know me! I know I sound nice on the phone but I could be anyone! I'm just thankful it's me they're talking to because I'd never hurt anyone like that. You'd also think in this day and age people would at least check out my badge. Nobody ever looks at it. They just take me for my word. I'm much more cautious at my own home.

Anyhow, enough babbling. Thank you for the HV tips. I've been doing something similar but I didn't know about the google fire departments. That is very helpful and I'll try it out tomorrow.

I just wish they'd update the sketch software so it was more compatible with other browsers. I don't use IE for anything. I'm a Firefox girl and I wish I didn't have to use IE but what can you do? I just got a new computer that works with Windows 8 and IE 10. Let me tell you I'm still trying to figure this thing out. Holy technology!

Happy New Year! Hope to chat soon

Liz

[Kristi Silber]

Hey! Page 3! Isn't that nice, it doesn't take so long to load. I see the views for this thread are way over 50,000 now. There are many out there taking a peek. I wonder sometimes how closely Mueller mgmt. follows it.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks the time guidelines are hard to meet. I'm sure some people do, but I'm also pretty sure some people don't report all the time they spend - in fact I read just the other day on the site Glass Door (has reviews of the job - search for Mueller Services, and it will come up) someone said that's what they do, just to make their stats look good. And others no doubt do a poor job. There are lots of corners to cut if one wants to.

That's different from being efficient, though. I tried using an HV template, and it just didn't work for me. The houses are too different, or maybe I'm too detailed, I don't know. The HV done by another rep I mentioned in my last post had a few sentences, three lines in all, I think - far from the sentence per room the guidelines state. Makes me wonder if I could get away with that.

Hmmm, pet peeves. QA listing inane (wrong) errors? Trying to guess which door type I should mark in an HV?* No, that's not that bad. Perhaps the nearly weekly addition of a new customer-specific requirement? Labeling photos? When I started only a couple companies wanted that, now the majority do. I don't understand why hazard photos need a label and a description in the hazard section - couldn't the latter just refer to the photo number so it's clear? Probably the thing that causes me the most trouble is when there are wings at angles to the main house. I can never get my measurements to match the sketch, and once you start sketching anything that's not straight up and down you're lucky if you can even get a 90 degree angle. Yeah, maybe the sketching software is my biggest peeve. You'd think after over a year I'd be able to whip 'em out, but sometimes it seems to have a mind of its own.

Some venting is probably best done through PMs. If you need to, Liz, you can always send me one. I've bent others' ears often enough!

Liz, you mentioned how people tend to talk a lot. You must be a likeable person! I often enjoy chatting with some of the homeowners. Sometimes they have interesting stuff, and interesting stories. I've made a few friends through the job. Sometimes, too, they are simply a little lonely, especially the older folks, and it feels good to bring a little humanity to the work. If I chat a lot, I don't report that time. I'd rather enjoy my job than race through it just so my hourly wage is a few cents higher. It is very isolating, as Liz pointed out. Hard to deal with especially at the beginning. I was very glad to have found this thread.



* I was playing around with the HV RCT and different door types today. A single leaded glass door can add almost $8300 to the est. - while a single solid core mahogany door will lower the estimate!!! What kind of sense does that make? Is cherry closer to oak or walnut in price? And why isn't there an entry for leaded (but not stained) glass windows? Or for that matter, why isn't there an entry for linoleum flooring on the regular RCTs? It's quite common these days, and more expensive than vinyl.

[Island Girl]

Hi Kristi & ( & everyone else)! I've been following this thread for a few weeks now and decided to introduce myself. I was a residential real estate appraiser for over a decade and am in the process of completing my training as a FR with Mueller. I had seen their ads on Craigslist many times and finally took the plunge. I did my training practicals over the holiday and am curious to see how I did on those.

My appraisal experience definitely helps, though I actually need MORE details and information as a FR. In appraisals, our specialty is neighborhoods and market value; the small details of an individual home were not critical. For example, in the appraisal world we would basically "summarize" the condition of the whole house in three ways: Average, Above Average, or Good. The condition of, say, the oil tank, soffits & eaves, sidewalks, siding, etc etc, was all lumped into general condition. The true "work" as an appraiser is in finding comparable sales and gridding out the comps to come up with a market value estimate.

As a FR I have to be very careful to pay much closer attention to details and hazards than I ever did as an appraiser. Sketching is very different too, as I didn't have to separate components by foundation or height in appraisals, only levels. We also were not fixated on getting the square footage precise or exact as the purpose was not for replacement cost.

I've read on this thread and others that with time working for Mueller can be a good gig money-wise if and only if volume is high and time is used wisely and efficiently. I'm not worried about getting up to speed as I'm a quick learner and comfortable on the computer, but I am a little concerned that with speed I will lose accuracy--especially in the field. I can already see how easy it would be to miss hazards, especially on the interior, and I don't want that to happen.

One thing I noticed while in the field doing my practicals--taking out all the extra forms--especially for NBIC--is impossible! Trying to flip through 6 pages of forms that have many duplicate questions was ridiculous, and I'm working on making my own templates that will work for any company. Then I will just need to highlight the "special" requests on the ticket for each individual job and double check that at the end.

In writing up my 3 practicals I actually found that loading, sorting and labeling the photo's, followed by the summary narrative at the end, took me the longest. The check-mark style forms were a breeze!

Anyway I am glad I found this forum, I already know it can be isolating from my years doing independent appraisals from home (I remember when If first got into appraising I worked in a large office with 10 other appraisers and I LOVED the comradarie--and missed it when I went solo). Hopefully I will get a good volume of work to keep me busy, and I'd love to stay in touch with other FR's.

--Island Girl (cos I live on Long Island)!

(On a completely unrelated side note--does everybody have the same advertisements showing on this site? There is an ad to the left has a man with his head appearing to be in the ground--the gif shakes every few seconds. It's an annoyingly disturbing photo that I am somehow drawn to keep looking at. I wish it would go away!!!)

[Carlos Pineiro]

One thing I noticed while in the field doing my practicals--taking out all the extra forms--especially for NBIC--is impossible! Trying to flip through 6 pages of forms that have many duplicate questions was ridiculous, and I'm working on making my own templates that will work for any company. Then I will just need to highlight the "special" requests on the ticket for each individual job and double check that at the end.

In writing up my 3 practicals I actually found that loading, sorting and labeling the photo's, followed by the summary narrative at the end, took me the longest. The check-mark style forms were a breeze!

Hi IG,
Please check with your manager on this, as I don't want to misdirect your training, but I was taught not to use forms. The forms are a guideline for all the info you'll need to survey a case, but in the field, you actually should be able to work with just the ticket, with all your notes AND the sketch written on the back for an Exterior Only. Interiors and HVs require 2 sheets of paper...only.

I wasn't shown this until after my test cases at the end of training, but it was an essential part of the job. I'm sure I couldn't do this job if I had to work with all the forms, plus it would coust a fortune in copy costs.

When you accept cases, you should be prompted to 1. Print tickets (yes) or 2. Print tickets and forms (no). All I print are the tickets. On the back ofbthe ticket, I print a stock form with a half page of abbreviated notes that can apply to each risk. Basically, it's the hazards and the interview in shorthand. The rest of the space on the sheet that is blank is where I sketch the house. Example: one line reads: rf...ms...crl...lft/buck...wav...____%<1"____%overall. There is a sim line for siding, windows yard, etc. The abbrev stand for: roof moss curling lifting/buckling wavy etc. When grading the roof, I just circle the appropriate hazard, then note the % over 1", and the % overall. All the notes about every hazard and all the info for an entire exterior can be abbrieviated this way, so that each risk is just one piece of paper on the clipboard. Interiors and HVs you need 2 sheets: 1 is the ticket with the hazards and sketch, the other is a sheet with similarbstyle abbreviations for interior components and info for your narratives.

There's an organized way to mark your tickets so that when you are done, the order you actually shot each house on your route is marked, and the prev risk is marked, so you can sort them according to due dates and write them up. It becomes a short routine and after a short while, it all happens very quickly. I couldn't imagine being in the field (especially in the rain) and flipping through forms. Even with waterproof paper, it would be a mess.

Your best bet, again, is to consult your manager on getting one of these half page abbrieviated forms to print on the back of your tickets. Dont rely on other reps (like me) on forums like this. We are not your trainers. I did write all this just to show you how I work, and it was shown to me by my trainer who is now a reg mgr with mueller. The nuts and bolts of this job become very easy and routine, which will allow yiu to make money faster. Good luck.

[Scott Patterson]

(On a completely unrelated side note--does everybody have the same advertisements showing on this site? There is an ad to the left has a man with his head appearing to be in the ground--the gif shakes every few seconds. It's an annoyingly disturbing photo that I am somehow drawn to keep looking at. I wish it would go away!!!)

Yes, those ads are what keep this site free. You should click on them from time to time to help the owner of this site with the support that is needed.

The ad with the guy sticking his head in the ground is a very important add. It will take you to the "The Cost of Doing Business" site. Every single person who inspects homes (Especially Field Reps) or is in a related business should go to this site and subscribe to the service. Spend a little pocket change to find out just how much money you are not making! It will shock you when you discover that you are most likely loosing money instead of making it!

[Island Girl]

Thank you so much for the info Carlos, I really appreciate it. :) I can see that some of the things they teach in the modules and web seminars are are not how it's always done in the real world. I clearly remember the trainer on several of the web seminars stating the importance of bringing the actual RTC form in the field because the form on the website contains extra information that we don't need to fill in. He kept reiterating that we should print out all the forms so we don't miss anything in the field, but the reality is, as we both noticed--it's just not practical!

I will ask my regional manager about this shortened form. In the meantime I made two of my own--an exterior only and an interior/exterior, each one page.

Your technique for marking the tickets sounds great. That kind of organization is what is going to make or break me, as I can see how things can get real confusing in a high volume environment (My manager did tell me that my area is high-volume but time will tell).

Thanks again for the tips and hope to stay in touch.

[Carlos Pineiro]

Thank you so much for the info Carlos, I really appreciate it. :) I can see that some of the things they teach in the modules and web seminars are are not how it's always done in the real world. I clearly remember the trainer on several of the web seminars stating the importance of bringing the actual RTC form in the field because the form on the website contains extra information that we don't need to fill in. He kept reiterating that we should print out all the forms so we don't miss anything in the field, but the reality is, as we both noticed--it's just not practical!

I will ask my regional manager about this shortened form. In the meantime I made two of my own--an exterior only and an interior/exterior, each one page.

Your technique for marking the tickets sounds great. That kind of organization is what is going to make or break me, as I can see how things can get real confusing in a high volume environment (My manager did tell me that my area is high-volume but time will tell).

Thanks again for the tips and hope to stay in touch.
Another reason to use templates printed on the back of your ticket is to keep the inspections accurate. Before I get back in the car, I can see the hazards I noted, and the shed, and the roof/siding types in one glance. If you forget to shoot the shed or the detached gutter, one glance reminds you to take a pic. If you send a case and it doesnt have a shed pic, you will wind up having QA return it to you, then, if the homeowner isnt home when you drive back, and the shed is in a gated backyard that was accessable when you were there the first time, you are screwed. It can get messy either trying to phone the ph for access to the shed, or explaining to you field manager (who gets 1 hundred emails daily) why you couldnt get the shed pic, all while your case is now overdue. Plus you arent clocking in to reshoot the shed, so it's costly as well.

[Ken Kowalich]

Hello All,
I am currently working for Reliable Reports and from reading this thread it sounds like Mueller and Reliable are very similar. Does anyone know if there is a similar thread on this forum for Reliable field inspectors? I ran a search but it returned nothing.

My manager has turned my route into a nightmare and I feel like we are about part ways and wanted to know if any other Reliable reps have experienced the same.

[Liz Fass]

Hi Ken,

Sorry to hear you're having such issues. I have never heard of Reliable but you might want to check and see if Mueller is looking for reps in your area? We're branching out to auto inspections now too. The web address is https://www.mueller-inc.com/

Good luck!

Liz

[Kristi Silber]

Grrr. I'm doing my taxes. Because of the change in non-taxed mileage "reimbursement" down to $0.40, I owe almost $200 more than I would have if it were $0.55 (owe because they only sporadically took taxes out in the first place!)

I gotta hand it to them, that was one sly manuever. At no cost to them they made it look to us as if we're making more hourly (I figured it out once, and the difference was about $1/hr for me because I've had to drive so much). Now we're paying for it.

[Garry Sorrells]

And this surprises you. The idea is ot keep you working till you figure out that it is a no win position (for you). And you quit, then start over with someone else, till they figure it out. And so on and so on till the word gets out and they have to change to get people to stay. This thread does get the word out so it will accelerate the process. But it will not change till they (top management) feel the pain.

[Carlos Pineiro]

And this surprises you. The idea is ot keep you working till you figure out that it is a no win position (for you). And you quit, then start over with someone else, till they figure it out. And so on and so on till the word gets out and they have to change to get people to stay. This thread does get the word out so it will accelerate the process. But it will not change till they (top management) feel the pain.

Hi Gary,

The premise that a company, any company, purposely sets up their employees for a fall with trickery to force attrition is ridiculous. It winds up being way more expensive to train new people since many do not make the cut, and creates tons more errors in reports from new people that cost both FR and QA labor while disappointing the customer.

I don't believe a conspiricy to trick FRs is a reality, and there should be no surprises about how we get paid, or how wages and fees are taxed. If the compensation isn't worth it, one should look for another job. No one is forcing us to sketch houses.

[Scott Patterson]

Hi Gary,


I don't believe a conspiricy to trick FRs is a reality, and there should be no surprises about how we get paid, or how wages and fees are taxed. If the compensation isn't worth it, one should look for another job. No one is forcing us to sketch houses.

That is so true.. One could most likely make more money and have benefits if you were a door greeter at Walmart or flipped burgers at a local McDonald's!

Service companies like Mueller thrive on the new hires. I bet you would be hard pressed to find more than 10% of their hires that have more than two years of employment with them.

Once folks learn that they are actually loosing money when you really take in account all of the cost that they are absorbing on their own they wise up and leave.

[Carlos Pineiro]

That is so true.. One could most likely make more money and have benefits if you were a door greeter at Walmart or flipped burgers at a local McDonald's!

Service companies like Mueller thrive on the new hires. I bet you would be hard pressed to find more than 10% of their hires that have more than two years of employment with them.

Once folks learn that they are actrually loosing money when you really take in account all of the cost that they are obsorbing on their own they wise up and leave.

Scott, your anti-mueller position here is well known. What ever personal issues you may have had with them is not important. What is important is, with due respect, yourbpost is innacurate. Your assumption that this company thrives on high turnover, and assumes there's some benefit to this, has me trying to decide whether you are a cleaver satirist, or just someone with a vivid imagination. Jobs pay what they pay, and mueller is transparent and above board. As far as comparing jobs that you imagine have comparable wages or skillsets or whatever, that was entertaining...but doesn't apply as eacb job has a different skillset and responsibility level. I'm sure you have more to contribute than just trolling the mueller thread, unless you really hate this company for some personal reason. It would be great to hear it.

[Scott Patterson]

Scott, your anti-mueller position here is well known. What ever personal issues you may have had with them is not important. What is important is, with due respect, yourbpost is innacurate. Your assumption that this company thrives on high turnover, and assumes there's some benefit to this, has me trying to decide whether you are a cleaver satirist, or just someone with a vivid imagination. Jobs pay what they pay, and mueller is transparent and above board. As far as comparing jobs that you imagine have comparable wages or skillsets or whatever, that was entertaining...but doesn't apply as eacb job has a different skillset and responsibility level. I'm sure you have more to contribute than just trolling the mueller thread, unless you really hate this company for some personal reason. It would be great to hear it.

I really have nothing against Mueller, I just hate to see folks taken advantage of.

Carlos, how long have you worked for Mueller?

[Carlos Pineiro]

I really have nothing against Mueller, I just hate to see folks taken advantage of.

Carlos, how long have you worked for Mueller?

Scott...My personal involvement there is unimportant and...personal. All I'm saying is that in your quest to be helpful, your posts are condescending and negetive, at best, in response to no one asking for help.

You posts are also not based on any applicable facts about the job. I was just wondering how you think you have some confidential insight on how 1700 of us field reps are being duped into a job by this unfair, subversive company, or if you are just being negative for fun.

[Scott Patterson]

Scott...My personal involvement there is unimportant and...personal. All I'm saying is that in your quest to be helpful, your posts are condescending and negetive, at best, in response to no one asking for help.

You posts are also not based on any applicable facts about the job. I was just wondering how you think you have some confidential insight on how 1700 of us field reps are being duped into a job by this unfair, subversive company, or if you are just being negative for fun.

So my guess is that you have worked for Mueller for less than two years.

Carlos, if you look at my post since this thread was started I don't think I have ever said anything bad about Muller other than the way they compensate folks. If you look at other posters and folks that work for Muller and similar companies as well, that seems to be a common denominator with most of them.

As I said I just hate seeing folks being taken advantage of, but if you are happy with the work and income you make that is all that matters.

[Carlos Pineiro]

So my guess is that you have worked for Mueller for less than two years.

Carlos, if you look at my post since this thread was started I don't think I have ever said anything bad about Muller other than the way they compensate folks. If you look at other posters and folks that work for Muller and similar companies as well, that seems to be a common denominator with most of them.

As I said I just hate seeing folks being taken advantage of, but if you are happy with the work and income you make that is all that matters.

Ok, I accept that, and agree that being taken advantage of is not good, but that requires deception, and I don't see the deception with a company that pays what they say they are going to pay. After a couple of weeks in the field, any rep pretty knows the time and miles involved, with the understanding that efficiency will increase, allowing for slightly more income per hour. Like sales or any other customer based job, if that's not enough compensation, then one should quit. Assuming that most reps work more than a couple of weeks, the labor force is attainable and people must be ok with their jobs. One can make more as an independent contractor with a different level of responsibility, and that doesn't suit everyone either.

[Garry Sorrells]

And this surprises you. The idea is ot keep you working till you figure out that it is a no win position (for you). And you quit, then start over with someone else, till they figure it out. And so on and so on till the word gets out and they have to change to get people to stay. This thread does get the word out so it will accelerate the process. But it will not change till they (top management) feel the pain.


Hi Gary,

The premise that a company, any company, purposely sets up their employees for a fall with trickery to force attrition is ridiculous. It winds up being way more expensive to train new people since many do not make the cut, and creates tons more errors in reports from new people that cost both FR and QA labor while disappointing the customer.

I don't believe a conspiracy to trick FRs is a reality, and there should be no surprises about how we get paid, or how wages and fees are taxed. If the compensation isn't worth it, one should look for another job. No one is forcing us to sketch houses.

I said nothing about trickery, only you inferred "trickery", "conspiracy", and "sets up their employees for a fall" which it may be and you would know better than I.

I speak to a mind set of management and their philosophy of employees. Again, when you state " purposely sets up their employees for a fall" is one way to look at it or they management fails to set up the FR to succeed, and put the effort into fostering success. The company realizes there is a tipping point of the desired profit margin and gross profits where the effort in retention is augmented with replacement. Regretfully companies today look at employees as transient objects easily replaceable. Gone are the days that longevity within a company is cultivated. Replaced with the concept that the employee is lucky to have a job with us.

Granted I may seem cynical because it goes against your desired perceptions. Yet, the corporate world works in that manor. Does it make sense, yes and no. It is purely dollar and cents on the corporate level. Paying for training and the productivity curve is calculated into the equation. From my understanding compensation is solely based on production. The factors that are part of that production vary greatly and seem not to be slow to adjust to changing assignments. By example: travel time seems to be a poorly addressed. Millage compensation also becomes a recurring theme at issue.

Your intimation that Scott was "trolling the mueller thread," I doubt as being true. As to being "anti-Mueller" possibly, yet it begs the question is anything stated false. You may not like what he has to say and it may threaten your position, but is it untrue? Personally my interjections are solely the result of the thread being in this forum. It could be about any company. I have no in depth personal experience with Muller only a limited experience. From what I have read in this thread I doubt that I would become personally involved for many reasons. Would I seek out a discussion on Muller some where else, no. I do find it interesting as a insight into the company.

[Carlos Pineiro]

I said nothing about trickery, only you inferred "trickery", "conspiracy", and "sets up their employees for a fall" which it may be and you would know better than I.

I speak to a mind set of management and their philosophy of employees. Again, when you state " purposely sets up their employees for a fall" is one way to look at it or they management fails to set up the FR to succeed, and put the effort into fostering success. The company realizes there is a tipping point of the desired profit margin and gross profits where the effort in retention is augmented with replacement. Regretfully companies today look at employees as transient objects easily replaceable. Gone are the days that longevity within a company is cultivated. Replaced with the concept that the employee is lucky to have a job with us.

Granted I may seem cynical because it goes against your desired perceptions. Yet, the corporate world works in that manor. Does it make sense, yes and no. It is purely dollar and cents on the corporate level. Paying for trainining and the productivity curve is calculated into the equation. From my understanding is solely based on production. The factors that are part of that production vary greatly and seem not to be slow to adjust to changing assignments. By example: travel time seems to be a poorly addressed. Millage compensation also becomes a recurring theme at issue.

Your intimation that Scott was "trolling the mueller thread," I doubt as being true. As to being "anti-Mueller" possibly, yet it begs the question is anything stated false. You may not like what he has to say and it may threaten your position, but is it untrue? Personally my interjections are solely the result of the thread being in this forum. It could be about any company. I have no in depth personal experience with Muller only a limited experience. From what I have read in this thread I doubt that I would become personally involved for many reasons. Would I seek out a discussion on Muller some where else, no. I do find it interesting as a insight into the company.

Well, to be sure, both scott's opinions and your theories are pure conjecture based on a handful of interweb posts by mostly disgruntled employees. A dozen people who are sour grapes because they wish they had made other choices, and no word from the 1688 other employees who don't post here. In general, people who are happy at work seldom seek places to exclaim their happiness about their employer, while people who are not drop everything so they can bitch about what's bugging them. This element in community bulliten boards, forums, blogs, and social media are pretty universal whether it's jobs or consumer products or your hometown baseball club. People who bitch about stuff outnumber the happy people who have other things to do with their time. As a mueller employee, I can tell you that Scott's remark where he guesses that I have been at the job for less than two years points to the absurdity of the mueller online mini review. Ummm...does it take 2000 exteriors to figure out what my paycheck is? Gee, for the first 23 months, including filing taxes at least once, I didn't notice that my employer was "taking advantage" of me because I am just that dense. Obviously, sizing up a job based on this conjecture is internet fantasy. In reality, I know exactly how much my paycheck is, what my responsibilities are, how many avg miles I drive and how how much of my time it's going to take, and I am fine with that. If the company was running their human resources dept they way you fantisized they are, despite the added costs, work, innefficiency, embarrassment, loss of revenues, and geraerla frustration, a lot more than a handful of complaining reps would be posting on the interenet of the 1700 people employed. If you want to continue your theories for fun, go for it, but I am here to say that they are factually untrue. Nobody is deceiving anybody, that's just silly.

[Scott Patterson]

Well, to be sure, both scott's opinions and your theories are pure conjecture based on a handful of interweb posts by mostly disgruntled employees. A dozen people who are sour grapes because they wish they had made other choices, and no word from the 1688 other employees who don't post here. In general, people who are happy at work seldom seek places to exclaim their happiness about their employer, while people who are not drop everything so they can bitch about what's bugging them. This element in community bulliten boards, forums, blogs, and social media are pretty universal whether it's jobs or consumer products or your hometown baseball club. People who bitch about stuff outnumber the happy people who have other things to do with their time. As a mueller employee, I can tell you that Scott's remark where he guesses that I have been at the job for less than two years points to the absurdity of the mueller online mini review. Ummm...does it take 2000 exteriors to figure out what my paycheck is? Gee, for the first 23 months, including filing taxes at least once, I didn't notice that my employer was "taking advantage" of me because I am just that dense. Obviously, sizing up a job based on this conjecture is internet fantasy. In reality, I know exactly how much my paycheck is, what my responsibilities are, how many avg miles I drive and how how much of my time it's going to take, and I am fine with that. If the company was running their human resources dept they way you fantisized they are, despite the added costs, work, innefficiency, embarrassment, loss of revenues, and geraerla frustration, a lot more than a handful of complaining reps would be posting on the interenet of the 1700 people employed. If you want to continue your theories for fun, go for it, but I am here to say that they are factually untrue. Nobody is deceiving anybody, that's just silly.

I never ask a question of a person without knowing the answer, call me cynical but this comes from working in the EW field for the past 12+ years.

Carlos, the following is your first post. In it you say you have been working for Mueller for 6 months and that was in September 2012, that would be about the same time as when you joined IN. So based on your own words you have been working for Mueller for less than a year. I wish you well and I really do hope that you keep posting even on other threads. With what you see in the field, I'm sure you have some information you can add to the various threads





#162 (permalink)

08-10-2012, 08:42 PM

Carlos Pineiro

Member
Join Date: Mar 2012

Location: Portland, OR

Posts: 18

Re: Mueller Services Inc. - Insurance Loss Control Surveys

Hi...This is my first post here. As a pioneer in the message board world with over 1 million posts since 1993, I can easily say that MBs can be a timesuck. I have hesitated to post here for that reason, but now I'm finally jumping in. I will just shave some FB time down to accommodate IN, lol.

I have been a FR with Mueller for about 6 months. I love my job. From what I have read in this thread, I can divide the posts two ways:

GLASS HALF EMPTY PEOPLE:
1. Pay is low
2. Mileage isn't paid
3. QAs only have bad news
4. Photos take too long to process

GLASS HALF FULL PEOPLE:
1. Pay is fair
2. Mileage is actually accounted for in your pay
3. QAs are teachers
4. Photo time is part of the job.

To expand on that...

1. People who complain that their pay is low should get another job and quit complaining. Mueller backs up what they promise, which includes adjusting your pay to make your time worth at least what they said they would pay you by the hour. If you are still not making enough money, complaining here will not increase your pay.

2. I average about 10 miles a day when I shoot houses. If I had any other job with a 5 mile commute, there wouldn't be mileage pay on my paycheck, but I would still be driving 10 miles to work on my own dime. Average out all your pay including mileage. If you're not making enough, it doesn't matter how many miles were recorded, you just need to make more money to be happy, and that's probably working for someone else.

3. QA people aren't the bad guys. If you don't want so many rejections, stop goofing up so much. One of the great things about this job is that you are not judged by some manager's subjective opinions. Your error % is...what it is. If you have all green stars, you are fine, management leaves you alone, and that's that. If not, Mueller offers training and support to lower your score. It's pretty academic, very supportive, and relieves you of the stress from subjective evaluations that happen other lines of work. The QA people teach me stuff all the time, which allows me to do my job better and make more money.

4. If you keep the resolution way down in your camera, you will still get great shots, and the photos will upload in seconds. Nobody is shooting waterfalls. Lower the quality setting and the entire time issue goes away.

I have enjoyed the almost contact of other FRs here, and appreciate the advice I got from reading some of your posts. Thanks for reading this long, first post. I look forward to returning to IN and having more inspection fun. -Carlos

[Carlos Pineiro]

I never ask a question of a person without knowing the answer, call me cynical but this comes from working in the EW field for the past 12+ years.

Carlos, the following is your first post. In it you say you have been working for Mueller for 6 months and that was in September 2012, that would be about the same time as when you joined IN. So based on your own words you have been working for Mueller for less than a year. I wish you well and I really do hope that you keep posting even on other threads. With what you see in the field, I'm sure you have some information you can add to the various threads
Scott, nothing personal, as I am sure you are a swell guy (I dont know you personally) but I was just taking issue on your posts about how you want to "help" people (who didnt ask for help) by posting about how mueller is taking "unfair advantage" of people. Firstly, I have worked for mueller for over a year, despite your incorrect deductions, and secondly, where does your lofty opinions about my company come from? I like chit-chatting on message forums for the fun of it, but if you dont think that people understand the job they have after a "year" or "two years" unless you explain it to them, (regardless of your actual inexperience with the company), and you dont think that's condescendng, I have to laugh. Your conjecture is based on something you imagined, and posts from a handful of disgruntled people, but we went over that, if you've been following. I dont mind if you want to share your opinions based on actual experience with my company or...facts, but your effort to "help" people comes off as pontificating, and not based on facts. Please tell me how my company is taking advantage of me while I cash my next paycheck, and sketch house number 2000 something, lol.

[Scott Patterson]

Scott, nothing personal, as I am sure you are a swell guy (I dont know you personally) but I was just taking issue on your posts about how you want to "help" people (who didnt ask for help) by posting about how mueller is taking "unfair advantage" of people. Firstly, I have worked for mueller for over a year, despite your incorrect deductions, and secondly, where does your lofty opinions about my company come from?

I deduced the amount of time you worked for Mueller based on how long you said you have worked for them! I did not make this up, it is from what you posted.

Again, I never said Mueller was taking "Unfair advantage" of anyone, those are your words not mine.


I like chit-chatting on message forums for the fun of it, but if you dont think that people understand the job they have after a "year" or "two years" unless you explain it to them, (regardless of your actual inexperience with the company), and you dont think that's condescendng, I have to laugh. Your conjecture is based on something you imagined, and posts from a handful of disgruntled people, but we went over that, if you've been following. I dont mind if you want to share your opinions based on actual experience with my company or...facts, but your effort to "help" people comes off as pontificating, and not based on facts. Please tell me how my company is taking advantage of me while I cash my next paycheck, and sketch house number 2000 something, lol.

Carlos, as I said earlier.... If you are happy with what you make and do then that is all that matters. Only you know if what you are being paid covers all of your expenses and provides a descent profit for you to put in the bank.

I wish you the best in your endeavors.

[Kristi Silber]

I think Mueller takes advantage of its employees merely by continually adding report requirements without increasing fees. They haven't increased the standard fees in at least 4 years (though some make more).

And I think the change in our non-taxable mileage was rotten.

The result is that we make less now than we did a year ago - and the change in non-taxable mileage gives us the illusion we're making more. I don't know if that's why they did it, but I can't think of another reason.

They are upfront about the pay, but that doesn't mean it's transparent how much someone will actually make. During the first few months it's tough, there's a learning curve. It also depends on aspects of the territory. I found that made a huge difference. There are no regular raises, if any.

I like my job. That's why people continue to do it - there are a lot of nice things about it. But there's no future in it. My impression is that Scott's right - there's a high turnover.

I don't see anything wrong with Scott or Gary's comments. They are speaking about an industry, not just Mueller.

[Carlos Pineiro]

I think Mueller takes advantage of its employees merely by continually adding report requirements without increasing fees. They haven't increased the standard fees in at least 4 years (though some make more).

And I think the change in our non-taxable mileage was rotten.

The result is that we make less now than we did a year ago - and the change in non-taxable mileage gives us the illusion we're making more. I don't know if that's why they did it, but I can't think of another reason.

They are upfront about the pay, but that doesn't mean it's transparent how much someone will actually make. During the first few months it's tough, there's a learning curve. It also depends on aspects of the territory. I found that made a huge difference. There are no regular raises, if any.

I like my job. That's why people continue to do it - there are a lot of nice things about it. But there's no future in it. My impression is that Scott's right - there's a high turnover.

I don't see anything wrong with Scott or Gary's comments. They are speaking about an industry, not just Mueller.

Hi Kristi,

"Service companies like Mueller thrive on the new hires" and "I hate to see people taken advantage of" were Scott's comments. My response was to point out that that is all conjecture on his part. The first statement is just not true, industrywide or not. There's no conspiracy to flim-flam FRs or any subversity witrh how payroll is handled. Anyone who has questions about how they get paid can write human resources or their manager.

As far as the claim that they are not transparent about pay potential because of a learning curve, I'm sure FRs aren't working on their learning curve after a "year" or "two years", and that is what Scott also implied. Offering people advice when one doesn't even work for the company and their basis of knowledge is something he imagined is what I responded to. Also, the "Walmart Greeter/McDonald's" comparison is an unfair comparison. We at Mueller may make different wages and Scott has no knowledge of that. In respect to my employment agreement, I don't discuss what my wage is, so anyone's critisizm or comparison is baseless. Whaere I do agree is his summation that "if it's working for you, go for it", to paraphrase. This job can be way different for several reasons for each of us.

"change in non-taxable mileage gives us the illusion we're making more"

Nothing about payroll is illusionary. The payroll tab shows any rep the miles, wages, and time involved in black and white. We are not salaried people. Our pay is a little more complicated since it involves three factors (fees time, and miles) but not any more complicated than a commision sales job or tipped positions like bartenders which have different income sources. Unlike a salary position where one gets the same amount each week, our pay varies based on those three factors. One can back out miles and look at the rest, or one can look at the totals and average the pay over time, like a restaurant person would. If one looks at the average hourly wages (with or without the mileage $$ added) and that average figure that they earn is not enough to suit them, they can see if they can get either more cases, better paying cases, or another job. Saying the company is at fault when one isn't making enough doesn't apply here. payroll is a bit complicated, but not subversive and not something beyond basic arithmetic.

For me personally, I spent most of my life driving to a job like most everybody else. I drove between 10-30 miles a day in my commutes in life. Nobody ever paid me to drive to my job. Every gas tank was on me. My miles with Mueller are about the same as my last job. To simplify my life, I just pretend that I driving to work on my own dime like every other job, and divide my pay by the total time I am clocked in. My average hourly wage is something I can live with, and that's ultimately all that matters...for me.

I agree the mileage rate being lowered sucked, but who likes making less money? It wasn't a popular move, but it was formally announced and not sneaked in, so at least they are consistent. I had the choice to love it or leave it. And do we make a lot? hell no! lol. I wish they would pay us $200 an hour. Strike that...make it $1000 an hour as long as I'm dreaming. The fact is that we are making what we make, and you are probably right the fees aren't going up anytime soon. I hope the driving improves for you KS, which seems to be a hassel where you are. I still think it would help if you taled to you mgr about assignments, but this time it's me imagining what is doable so with that remark, I will close. :)

[Kristi Silber]

To figure hourly wage, one usually divides gross income by hours worked. With a decrease in the portion of wages given as non-taxable income, our gross appears higher, so our hourly wages do, too. Maybe everybody figured that out, I don't know, but that's what I meant by an illusion. At any rate, it means less income supplementation by Mueller for people who are below the base pay they were hired at.

[Carlos Pineiro]

To figure hourly wage, one usually divides gross income by hours worked. With a decrease in the portion of wages given as non-taxable income, our gross appears higher, so our hourly wages do, too. Maybe everybody figured that out, I don't know, but that's what I meant by an illusion. At any rate, it means less income supplementation by Mueller for people who are below the base pay they were hired at.
Well, to be fair, taxes and pay rates differ from region to region, so it's a different story depending on one's locale. I hope things change for the better for those who are dealing with the downside of this work. Either way, the experience will help in the future. CP

[Garry Sorrells]

In general;
Looking back over the posts can be very interesting.
I have included some edited (reduced from original) postings and some thoughts/observations..((( and probably (definitely) way to long :rolleyes: ))

This thread began in May 2008 and has had close to 56,000 views on 228 posts, which makes me think that there are many people looking into Inspection Service Companies like Muller on many different levels.

The person who originated this thread left the forum and deleted all of their posts, which begs the question , why? Leaving only speculation and conjecture that it was company related.

The number of Muller FRs participating in this thread seem to be few in relation to, according to Carlos, 1700. Given (after a short search) that there seems to be no other forum threads with this number of views. Which makes you think that many view Muller FR view the thread but do not participate. Which is interesting in and of itself.

Carlos,
Allow me to preface the following with "bless you heart" we like you, absolutly no malice involved, truly. I hope you can accept it as a discussion and not as an argument. If that were my interest I would go see my Mother In-law:D.


Hi...This is my first post here. As a pioneer in the message board world with over 1 million posts since 1993,

I have been a FR with Mueller for about 6 months. I love my job. ..........

To expand on that...

1. People who complain that their pay is low should get another job and quit complaining. Mueller backs up what they promise, which includes adjusting your pay to make your time worth at least what they said they would pay you by the hour........

2...... Average out all your pay including mileage. ....

3. ...... If you don't want so many rejections, stop goofing up so much. .......... If not, Mueller offers training and support to lower your score. It's pretty academic, very supportive, .......... The QA people teach me stuff all the time, which allows me to do my job better and make more money.

I have to say on a few levels that your proclamation " a pioneer in the message board world with over 1 million posts since 1993, ..." is interesting on three levels, 1) "1 million posts" the number itself , 2) the fact that you actually track the number and why., 3) that you are a pioneer in the message board world, sounds a little like All Gore inventing the internet. But we all have our hobbies.

The rest of your observations on the company after only 6 months on the job is fascinating. Few could profess such a deep understand of the operation. Congratulations.


...

....I don't believe a conspiricy to trick FRs is a reality, and there should be no surprises about how we get paid, or how wages and fees are taxed. ....

Seems that you see a conspiracy to trick FRs where I just see philosophy and methodology of manipulating the FR's work structure.


......My personal involvement there is unimportant and...personal. ......

......wondering how you think ,,,,,us field reps are being duped into a job by this unfair, subversive company, ........

Seems that you down play your involvement and personal connection to the company. There is nothing wrong with personal involvement and that you feel the involvement is important. It is not uncommon for an employee make a personal connection to a company, almost like being in a family. Especially in the first few years. Where there is a learning curve taking place. The person initially has psychological blinders on as they are indoctrinated by/into the company. Over time the fog lifts and you actually have a wider vision of the company.

A defensive reaction to a perceived attack on the company tend to be exaggerated. A simple factual statement is converted into some kind of malicious and personal attack on the company as an instinctive reaction to a threat.


Ok, I accept that, and agree that being taken advantage of is not good, but that requires deception, and I don't see the deception with a company that pays what they say they are going to pay. After a couple of weeks in the field, any rep pretty knows the time and miles involved, ........Assuming that most reps work more than a couple of weeks, the labor force is attainable and people must be ok with their jobs. ......

Your agreement that being taken advantage of is not not good is defensible, especially if you are the one in the lessor position.

Being taken advantage of does not require deception. It just requires positional leverage or a greater knowledge/ability in an area. You equate that there has to be deception to gain advantage which is not true and skews your argument and perception.

Consumers and employees are typically in the position of lessor advantage in most business dealings. The company has the experience and resources to position itself for advantage in its dealing. The company has the ability (advantage) to orchestrate how it disseminates information, along with how much information is given. Every company sells itself to its advantage and operates first and foremost to its own advantage. Just a fact of like. Not saying good or bad, only stating a fact.

You do show naivety or ego that only after a few weeks a new hire would "After a couple of weeks in the field, any rep pretty knows the time and miles involved,...". There are two many variables to be understood in just a few weeks.

As to the concept that those that stay with a job after a few weeks may be only due to hoping that things will improve as they become more experienced. Which I am sure is the company line. I am also sure that you believe that you compensation will increase over time as you become more experienced and figure better ways to perform the job assignment.


....interweb posts by mostly disgruntled employees............... As a mueller employee, I can tell you that Scott's remark where he guesses that I have been at the job for less than two years points to the absurdity of the mueller online mini review. ....Gee, for the first 23 months, including filing taxes at least once, I didn't notice that my employer was "taking advantage" of me because I am just that dense. ......... I know exactly how much my paycheck is, ....and I am fine with that. .....

Posting a truth does not make a disgruntled employee.
Discussing a fact or situation soes not make a disgruntled employee.
I say that it is raining. That does not make me disgruntled over the weather. It is just raining, an observed fact.

You tell us when you started with Muller and you then jump to "...the absurdity of the mueller online mini review..." as the source for what ever the review is worth. Then go onto verify exactly what Scott stated. It seems as though you felt the need to be defensive for some reason. No one is attacking you, though you may feel as though you are being attacked by your position being challenged. But, truly you are not being attacked.

Knowing your paycheck and being fine with it is good and I am happy for you. Few can make that statement. Many of us from years of experience in business for ourselves understand the hidden costs that many do not. How did we come to understand the hidden costs, time and experience and money. How do you come to understand the costs of doing business in less time and with less experience? Someone can tell you or point out things you may not be accounting for in you business plan. Scott, Jerry and others help point what they have learned over time for the benefit of others with no axe to grind on the subject. There are many aspects that transfer from on business area to another. You do not have to be a Muller employee to understand a business system and its compensation methods.



Scott,...... I am sure you are a swell guy..... taking issue ......about how you want to "help" people (who didnt ask for help) ........I have worked for mueller for over a year, despite your incorrect deductions, ....... but if you dont think that people understand the job they have after a "year" or "two years" unless you explain it to them,,,,,, and you dont think that's condescendng,...... Please tell me how my company is taking advantage of me while I cash my next paycheck, .....

Well we all think Scott is "swell Guy" bless his heart.

As to "...help" people (who didnt ask for help)"..." What is wrong with offering a helping hand to anyone? Why wait to be asked if you can be of benefit? Which is somewhat akin to not expecting something in return as a condition for offering assistance.

The concept that you know everything about your job after a year or two and have nothing to learn is ego/age driven usually and not realty. The greatest thing that you learn in life is that there is more that you do not know than what you do know. The second thing is that accepting help does not make you less of a person. Also, along the way, the paycheck is not the defining term of your efforts.





.....Also, the "Walmart Greeter/McDonald's" comparison is an unfair comparison. We at Mueller may make different wages and Scott has no knowledge of that....., ...

.....We are not salaried people. Our pay is a little more complicated since it involves three factors (fees time, and miles) ..... our pay varies based on those three factors. ..... average figure that they earn is not enough to suit them, they can see if they can get either more cases, better paying cases, or another job.......
.........
I agree the mileage rate being lowered sucked, but who likes making less money? It wasn't a popular move, but it was formally announced and not sneaked in, so at least they are consistent. I had the choice to love it or leave it. And do we make a lot? hell no! lol.......... :)

I think Scot does have an idea of your compensation. Again from experience.

Like you say "...We are not salaried people. Our pay is a little more complicated since it involves three factors (fees time, and miles) ..... our pay varies ..." and it you can ask to have things adjusted which demonstrates that it is the company that creates the average income and that it is not a mater of equity. They say you can make $$$/hr when hired, but the FR has to go and ask for the company to make the adjustments to meet what was offered originally as the incentive and it is discretionary on the part of the company. Just like changing the mileage reimbursement methods.

Now when you say the Muller "..mileage rate being lowered sucked,..." sure makes you sound like a disgruntled Muller employee doesn't it. And the, "... I had the choice to love it or leave it...." , just might make you leave after only 2 years. Where they would just replace you with someone else and train them to complete the cycle. Possibly how you came to be hired.:confused:

[Garry Sorrells]

In general;
Looking back over the posts can be very interesting.
I have included some edited (reduced from original) postings and some thoughts/observations..((( and probably (definitely) way to long :rolleyes: ))

This thread began in May 2008 and has had close to 56,000 views on 228 posts, which makes me think that there are many people looking into Inspection Service Companies like Muller on many different levels.

The person who originated this thread left the forum and deleted all of their posts, which begs the question , why? Leaving only speculation and conjecture that it was company related.

The number of Muller FRs participating in this thread seem to be few in relation to, according to Carlos, 1700. Given (after a short search) that there seems to be no other forum threads with this number of views. Which makes you think that many view Muller FR view the thread but do not participate. Which is interesting in and of itself.

Carlos,
Allow me to preface the following with "bless you heart" we like you, absolutly no malice involved, truly. I hope you can accept it as a discussion and not as an argument. If that were my interest I would go see my Mother In-law:D.


Hi...This is my first post here. As a pioneer in the message board world with over 1 million posts since 1993,

I have been a FR with Mueller for about 6 months. I love my job. ..........

To expand on that...

1. People who complain that their pay is low should get another job and quit complaining. Mueller backs up what they promise, which includes adjusting your pay to make your time worth at least what they said they would pay you by the hour........

2...... Average out all your pay including mileage. ....

3. ...... If you don't want so many rejections, stop goofing up so much. .......... If not, Mueller offers training and support to lower your score. It's pretty academic, very supportive, .......... The QA people teach me stuff all the time, which allows me to do my job better and make more money.

I have to say on a few levels that your proclamation " a pioneer in the message board world with over 1 million posts since 1993, ..." is interesting on three levels, 1) "1 million posts" the number itself , 2) the fact that you actually track the number and why., 3) that you are a pioneer in the message board world, sounds a little like All Gore inventing the internet. But we all have our hobbies.

The rest of your observations on the company after only 6 months on the job is fascinating. Few could profess such a deep understand of the operation. Congratulations.


...

....I don't believe a conspiricy to trick FRs is a reality, and there should be no surprises about how we get paid, or how wages and fees are taxed. ....

Seems that you see a conspiracy to trick FRs where I just see philosophy and methodology of manipulating the FR's work structure.


......My personal involvement there is unimportant and...personal. ......

......wondering how you think ,,,,,us field reps are being duped into a job by this unfair, subversive company, ........

Seems that you down play your involvement and personal connection to the company. There is nothing wrong with personal involvement and that you feel the involvement is important. It is not uncommon for an employee make a personal connection to a company, almost like being in a family. Especially in the first few years. Where there is a learning curve taking place. The person initially has psychological blinders on as they are indoctrinated by/into the company. Over time the fog lifts and you actually have a wider vision of the company.

A defensive reaction to a perceived attack on the company tend to be exaggerated. A simple factual statement is converted into some kind of malicious and personal attack on the company as an instinctive reaction to a threat.


Ok, I accept that, and agree that being taken advantage of is not good, but that requires deception, and I don't see the deception with a company that pays what they say they are going to pay. After a couple of weeks in the field, any rep pretty knows the time and miles involved, ........Assuming that most reps work more than a couple of weeks, the labor force is attainable and people must be ok with their jobs. ......

Your agreement that being taken advantage of is not not good is defensible, especially if you are the one in the lessor position.

Being taken advantage of does not require deception. It just requires positional leverage or a greater knowledge/ability in an area. You equate that there has to be deception to gain advantage which is not true and skews your argument and perception.

Consumers and employees are typically in the position of lessor advantage in most business dealings. The company has the experience and resources to position itself for advantage in its dealing. The company has the ability (advantage) to orchestrate how it disseminates information, along with how much information is given. Every company sells itself to its advantage and operates first and foremost to its own advantage. Just a fact of like. Not saying good or bad, only stating a fact.

You do show naivety or ego that only after a few weeks a new hire would "After a couple of weeks in the field, any rep pretty knows the time and miles involved,...". There are two many variables to be understood in just a few weeks.

As to the concept that those that stay with a job after a few weeks may be only due to hoping that things will improve as they become more experienced. Which I am sure is the company line. I am also sure that you believe that you compensation will increase over time as you become more experienced and figure better ways to perform the job assignment.


....interweb posts by mostly disgruntled employees............... As a mueller employee, I can tell you that Scott's remark where he guesses that I have been at the job for less than two years points to the absurdity of the mueller online mini review. ....Gee, for the first 23 months, including filing taxes at least once, I didn't notice that my employer was "taking advantage" of me because I am just that dense. ......... I know exactly how much my paycheck is, ....and I am fine with that. .....

Posting a truth does not make a disgruntled employee.
Discussing a fact or situation soes not make a disgruntled employee.
I say that it is raining. That does not make me disgruntled over the weather. It is just raining, an observed fact.

You tell us when you started with Muller and you then jump to "...the absurdity of the mueller online mini review..." as the source for what ever the review is worth. Then go onto verify exactly what Scott stated. It seems as though you felt the need to be defensive for some reason. No one is attacking you, though you may feel as though you are being attacked by your position being challenged. But, truly you are not being attacked.

Knowing your paycheck and being fine with it is good and I am happy for you. Few can make that statement. Many of us from years of experience in business for ourselves understand the hidden costs that many do not. How did we come to understand the hidden costs, time and experience and money. How do you come to understand the costs of doing business in less time and with less experience? Someone can tell you or point out things you may not be accounting for in you business plan. Scott, Jerry and others help point what they have learned over time for the benefit of others with no axe to grind on the subject. There are many aspects that transfer from on business area to another. You do not have to be a Muller employee to understand a business system and its compensation methods.



Scott,...... I am sure you are a swell guy..... taking issue ......about how you want to "help" people (who didnt ask for help) ........I have worked for mueller for over a year, despite your incorrect deductions, ....... but if you dont think that people understand the job they have after a "year" or "two years" unless you explain it to them,,,,,, and you dont think that's condescendng,...... Please tell me how my company is taking advantage of me while I cash my next paycheck, .....

Well we all think Scott is "swell Guy" bless his heart.

As to "...help" people (who didnt ask for help)"..." What is wrong with offering a helping hand to anyone? Why wait to be asked if you can be of benefit? Which is somewhat akin to not expecting something in return as a condition for offering assistance.

The concept that you know everything about your job after a year or two and have nothing to learn is ego/age driven usually and not realty. The greatest thing that you learn in life is that there is more that you do not know than what you do know. The second thing is that accepting help does not make you less of a person. Also, along the way, the paycheck is not the defining term of your efforts.





.....Also, the "Walmart Greeter/McDonald's" comparison is an unfair comparison. We at Mueller may make different wages and Scott has no knowledge of that....., ...

.....We are not salaried people. Our pay is a little more complicated since it involves three factors (fees time, and miles) ..... our pay varies based on those three factors. ..... average figure that they earn is not enough to suit them, they can see if they can get either more cases, better paying cases, or another job.......
.........
I agree the mileage rate being lowered sucked, but who likes making less money? It wasn't a popular move, but it was formally announced and not sneaked in, so at least they are consistent. I had the choice to love it or leave it. And do we make a lot? hell no! lol.......... :)

I think Scot does have an idea of your compensation. Again from experience.

Like you say "...We are not salaried people. Our pay is a little more complicated since it involves three factors (fees time, and miles) ..... our pay varies ..." and it you can ask to have things adjusted which demonstrates that it is the company that creates the average income and that it is not a mater of equity. They say you can make $$$/hr when hired, but the FR has to go and ask for the company to make the adjustments to meet what was offered originally as the incentive and it is discretionary on the part of the company. Just like changing the mileage reimbursement methods.

Now when you say the Muller "..mileage rate being lowered sucked,..." sure makes you sound like a disgruntled Muller employee doesn't it. And the, "... I had the choice to love it or leave it...." , just might make you leave after only 2 years. Where they would just replace you with someone else and train them to complete the cycle. Possibly how you came to be hired.:confused:

[Joseph Dalessio]

I think Mueller takes advantage of its employees merely by continually adding report requirements without increasing fees. They haven't increased the standard fees in at least 4 years (though some make more).

And I think the change in our non-taxable mileage was rotten.

The result is that we make less now than we did a year ago - and the change in non-taxable mileage gives us the illusion we're making more. I don't know if that's why they did it, but I can't think of another reason.

They are upfront about the pay, but that doesn't mean it's transparent how much someone will actually make. During the first few months it's tough, there's a learning curve. It also depends on aspects of the territory. I found that made a huge difference. There are no regular raises, if any.

I like my job. That's why people continue to do it - there are a lot of nice things about it. But there's no future in it. My impression is that Scott's right - there's a high turnover.

I don't see anything wrong with Scott or Gary's comments. They are speaking about an industry, not just Mueller.

That's a big issue, and I'm surprised I don't see it here more. There are constantly new requirements being added, but no compensation for the additional time those requirements take. I have no problem getting extra pictures, and looking up more information about a house, but I certainly feel like I should be compensated for that additional time. In my mind, every time they add a requirement, but don't increase the fee, it's the equivalent of giving me an hourly pay cut.

[Carlos Pineiro]

That's a big issue, and I'm surprised I don't see it here more. There are constantly new requirements being added, but no compensation for the additional time those requirements take. I have no problem getting extra pictures, and looking up more information about a house, but I certainly feel like I should be compensated for that additional time. In my mind, every time they add a requirement, but don't increase the fee, it's the equivalent of giving me an hourly pay cut.

Hi Joe,
I'm still not sure what "extra requirements" are being asked of people since our job descriptions may not match exactly. I have gotten memos to record things differently, but my job is basically the same. I haven had anyone ask for "extra" photos where I work, although I get second look and photo only cases and they are paid cases with mileage like any other case.

As far as income appearing like something it's not, it really isnt once you just look at how you're paid, and average the money, miles and time. Other jobs, like bartending for example, have a slightly complex system. It appears that you made $100, but that's before you tip out your barback 15%. There's nothing illusionary about it, you just have to do the math. Deceiving people, like multi-level market schemes, are one thing. Nothing Mueller does is illegal. You (one, not you) either accept the compensation or you don't.

[Joseph Dalessio]

Hi Joe,
I'm still not sure what "extra requirements" are being asked of people since our job descriptions may not match exactly. I have gotten memos to record things differently, but my job is basically the same. I haven had anyone ask for "extra" photos where I work, although I get second look and photo only cases and they are paid cases with mileage like any other case.

As far as income appearing like something it's not, it really isnt once you just look at how you're paid, and average the money, miles and time. Other jobs, like bartending for example, have a slightly complex system. It appears that you made $100, but that's before you tip out your barback 15%. There's nothing illusionary about it, you just have to do the math. Deceiving people, like multi-level market schemes, are one thing. Nothing Mueller does is illegal. You (one, not you) either accept the compensation or you don't.

Things like asking for extra photos (which I get plenty of), and filling out extra, insurance company specific forms, are all added time on my end, for which I do not receive extra compensation.

I don't think anyone is claiming Mueller is doing anything illegal, but they are certainly saying that the way that their employees are compensated is not appropriate for the work they do. I agree with you, however, when you say that we either accept the compensation, or find a different, better paying job. I suppose it may be the result of an employers market, but who knows.

[Carlos Pineiro]

That's a big issue, and I'm surprised I don't see it here more. There are constantly new requirements being added, but no compensation for the additional time those requirements take. I have no problem getting extra pictures, and looking up more information about a house, but I certainly feel like I should be compensated for that additional time. In my mind, every time they add a requirement, but don't increase the fee, it's the equivalent of giving me an hourly pay cut.


Things like asking for extra photos (which I get plenty of), and filling out extra, insurance company specific forms, are all added time on my end, for which I do not receive extra compensation.

I don't think anyone is claiming Mueller is doing anything illegal, but they are certainly saying that the way that their employees are compensated is not appropriate for the work they do. I agree with you, however, when you say that we either accept the compensation, or find a different, better paying job. I suppose it may be the result of an employers market, but who knows.
I guess I feel like the situation is equitable for me. I clock in for every extra form, etc, and when we got the 21st century photo thingy instead of the 1995 model, my work was faster afterwards. There's nothing I do off the clock, and my all my mileage is paid so maybe our locales have different rules. Anyway, a lot of my post was replying to this entire thread, not just your post, btw. I'm just happy for waterproof paper and homes on flat ground. :)

[Jim Starkey]

I have worked for Mueller for almost 3 years now. Its a part time gig I can do at my own pace and when I want to. I average about $20 an hour with the mileage, my car is small, gets good gas mileage and didn't cost me much or cost me too much to drive.

The job is a lot of fun, I see some cool properties and meet a lot of really neat and interesting people. I'm a people person so its part of the fun. I almost feel sometimes like I'm getting paid to have fun and hang out with people and BS because a lot of that is part of the job.

I work on average about 2 days a week out in the field and by days I mean about 5 hours each day and then about one day maybe 6 hours at home uploading the stuff. I am very good at it and have cut corners everywhere possible to get the job the way they want it with as little effort as possible.

Sometimes it sucks when your in a muddy back yard full of dog crap and its cold, windy etc but its better then being stuck in an office somewhere in a highrise in my opinion. Again its a part time job.

I have thought about quitting but its constant income and I can adjust the amount of work up and down as I see fit. They don't mess with me because they know they can count on me. Its not for everyone but if you think you may like it I say ignore everything and give it a good 2 months then you can decide if its right or not but you won't know until then as there is a learning curve.

Don't do any more then whats on the first page as far as what they want. I give them exactly what they ask for and no more. On high values I interview the customer and fill in all the blanks as much as they know then take pictures of everything, measure the house and leave, I figure it all out at home. I'm in and out, wham bam! I don't waste any time worrying about anything, if its not in the picture then too bad. I rarely get anything kicked back from QA. I have a work sheet for the narrative that I cut and past and make a few small changes based on the client.

Its really very easy but again I have been at it for almost 3 years. I make about $15,000 a year doing it as a part time job maybe 15 hours a week. where else can you make that kind of money part time with those hours and work at your own pace? If its raining or the weather is bad I stay home. I love it!!! Will I get rich? No but again its a part time gig that I can take into retirement for pocket change. Its a great fit for me right now where I am in my life! When an inspection comes up I put Mueller on the back burner. Cheers!!

As for the person why said they ask for more forms or more photo's etc and there is no compensation for the extra work you must not work for them or something because you charge your time based on how much time it took you to do the job from start to finish so if they add 20 more forms and it takes you an extra hour you charge them for the extra hour do you suck at math?

You get paid based on how much time you work and how many miles you drive so the time you spend driving is paid at the hourly rate as well as the mileage. I prefer far away inspections as I get the mileage both ways and the windshield time pay too. Lets look at a High Value job 60 miles from your house.

You drive 120 miles round trip to do the job and it took an hour each way, you spend 1.5 hours at the house interviewing, taking photo's, measurements etc. You then drive home and spend another hour uploading the job. You spent 4.5 hours total and drove 100 miles right?

Lets say your making the typical $13 an hour. You made $58 for your time including drive time and $48 for the mileage. That is $106 total with $48 of it being tax free and not counted as income. If you did two that day you would have over a $200 day times that by 3 days a week and you are making $600 a week working part time. Again your not getting rich but your making pretty good money doing easy work at your own pace and out on your own with no boss breathing down your neck and your not looking at and dealing with the same losers everyday. This is just an example of course it all varies but for some people this is a good deal in my opinion.

[Joseph Dalessio]

As for the person why said they ask for more forms or more photo's etc and there is no compensation for the extra work you must not work for them or something because you charge your time based on how much time it took you to do the job from start to finish so if they add 20 more forms and it takes you an extra hour you charge them for the extra hour do you suck at math?


That's true if you're getting paid hourly rates - some reps are only paid the fee, and nothing more, regardless of how long it takes - so if you spend more time working on a case because they are requesting more photos/forms/etc, you make less per hour - it's as simple as that. You don't get to "charge them for an extra hour".

[Carlos Pineiro]

Thanks for posting, Jim. It could have been my post. I drive about 100 miles a week these days. If it were another job that doesn't pay for your car expenses (like most jobs), that's like a ten mile commute over 5 days. Since I would normally pay gas out of pocket to get to work, I just take the entire oaycheck and divide by the total hours and it's about the same as yours. That's not bad considering how easy the job is, how easy the schedule is, and the autonomy involved since my boss is miles away and not hulking over me. Keep your stars green and nobody bothers you. Self employed people make more, but have much more responsibility and don't get cases handed to them. Add to that: driving is a hobby for me, and the gas money is more than twice what my car actually uses.

I am about to shoot 11 houses this afternoon, from suburban hillside 2 stories to farmhouses where dogs and cats will follow me around and wonder what kind of toy my stick thing is. Every day there are animals. I didn't have that back when I had an office gig.

[Veteran Field Rep]

That's true if you're getting paid hourly rates - some reps are only paid the fee, and nothing more, regardless of how long it takes - so if you spend more time working on a case because they are requesting more photos/forms/etc, you make less per hour - it's as simple as that. You don't get to "charge them for an extra hour".

BINGO! I was IC for 7 yrs, handled over 15,000 surveys, with NO FEE INCREASES, EVER, even considering the precipitous spike in fuel costs over that time period. This is a comically flawed business model.

I brought this up to each one of my 6-7 managers during that time, and they all responded by throwing their hands up in various fashions, many of the responses almost Stepford-like.

- "Hey, some of the field reps haven't had increases since 2005..." (umm..OK...I fell better now)

- "You don't get paid more for a woodstove on an interior because you're already in the house..." (oh....I'll tell my tile guy doing the bathroom to just go ahead and start on the kitchen as he's already in here, then)
- "I see you've handled over 12,000 cases for u. I'll see what I can do..." (queue crickets)

The bottom line is each region has its own budget, and the gross fees are the prime component obviously. If you handle 3,000-4,000 surveys a year with an increase of only $1 each, that's a decline in profitability to the manager without any changes in volume. Given adjustments for cost of living, the $13 exterior fee originating in 2006 translates to about $10 in 2013 money....unconscionably low fee for the ever-increasing amount of work involved in filling out duplicative and poorly engineered forms. Thus, if you're just starting out as a field rep as an alternative to fast food or minimum wage, you will enjoy the benefits. If you are a high-volume veteran with a proven track record and spiraling expense costs eroding your margins year after year, companies like Mueller are better off in the rear-view mirror.

[Carlos Pineiro]

Good points, Joseph, but while the actual basic pay rates might be debateable, the other idea discussed in this thread is the suggestion that the company decieves people. While that isn't the case in my area or with me, it might be possible elsewhere. Using outdated software and having minimal communication with staff and making your payroll complicated to analize may be poor business practices, but it's not deception. Telling someone flat out there are yearly raises (for instance) and then not paying them is deceptive. Muller may not make anyone rich, but all you have to do is look at your paycheck and decide if it's worth it. If not, work for someone else or yourself, right? Anyway, good point about regions having different budgets. It changes a lot about the job depending on where you live.

[Robert Taylor]

I believe that several of the comments are made in attempt of making Mueller a better place to work. I agree that Mueller FR are being asked to do more and more without compensation. An example would be brush reports. You are required to take an additional 4 photos, import those and document the directions along with a very long and detailed report pertaining to the brush exposure. From my experience this doubles the time that you are spending on importing a report without any additional compensation for the work. With other companies they will pay you additional fees for that Brush report where Mueller does not.

I am sure that many of the FRs have made calls several calls for inspections, then contact the agent for assistance and the insured either does not return the calls or refuses the inspection. With Mueller you are expected to absorb the time that you have spent as part of being a F.R. The other companies that I do business with at least pay you a fee for attempting contact with these individuals while Mueller does not.

Where Mueller does good is when they require one of those mandatory classes that we have all taken. As long as you are on the conference call and participating they generally pay you as long as your manager is on the ball. Good for Mueller, some of the other companies do not do this.

Most of the FR have now received keys for the new program that Mueller is implementing concerning foreclosed homes. In reviewing all of the material that has been supplied thus far, there is one major thing that has not been addressed. The pay. Remember there are two versions of Mueller pay. Those who document their hours and travel and those under the flat rate fee. As I look at the requirements that are being requested of the type of inspection and the number of photographs including attics and crawl spaces is Mueller going to step up to the plate and offer fair compensation? I do not know. One thing that concerns me and should concern all FR is the 24-48 hour turn around. What happens if you check your assignments at 9:00 AM and you live in an area where you typically drive 30-45 miles one way to conduct inspections. You return and find an assignment that came in for the Foreclosure inspections, after you left your office. Now you are under the gun to either turn around and re-drive that distance (Gas at nearly 4.00 a gallon) or get those not so friendly notes that you have not complied with the initial turn around. Do you have an option to opt out of the Foreclosure inspections and continue doing your regular residential inspections, something to think about.

Again giving credit to Mueller at least they are looking at other options for the FR, however just remember the wages associated with the inspections need to be fair or you will loose those good inspectors who have devoted their time and expertise to Mueller.

[Jim Starkey]

If I was only making the $13 or $26 fee for the survey's I would have never done it to begin with. I get paid by the hour and by the mile and its barely worth it. Its only worth it because there is lots of work and if I want to make more money I can work more. I do it part time just to fill in lulls in my home inspection business due to the slow housing market which has picked up and I have cut back on Mueller stuff but I am having a hard time letting go because as soon as I do, there will be some terrorist attack or something and people wills top buying houses again and I will be out two sources of income.

All I can say is it is what it is, if you don't like it then don't do it. Its surely not for everyone but for some like myself and a few others I have got doing it, its a pretty good deal as like I said I can work it into my current job/schedule and keep both as well as the draw inspections, equipment inspections and other stuff I do. Multiple streams of income my friends, this is a small stream but viable, doable and can follow me into retirement for pocket money along with the draw and other inspection stuff I do that is quick and easy.

Cheers!

[Carlos Pineiro]

I believe that several of the comments are made in attempt of making Mueller a better place to work. I agree that Mueller FR are being asked to do more and more without compensation. An example would be brush reports. You are required to take an additional 4 photos, import those and document the directions along with a very long and detailed report pertaining to the brush exposure. From my experience this doubles the time that you are spending on importing a report without any additional compensation for the work. With other companies they will pay you additional fees for that Brush report where Mueller does not.

I am sure that many of the FRs have made calls several calls for inspections, then contact the agent for assistance and the insured either does not return the calls or refuses the inspection. With Mueller you are expected to absorb the time that you have spent as part of being a F.R. The other companies that I do business with at least pay you a fee for attempting contact with these individuals while Mueller does not.

Where Mueller does good is when they require one of those mandatory classes that we have all taken. As long as you are on the conference call and participating they generally pay you as long as your manager is on the ball. Good for Mueller, some of the other companies do not do this.

Most of the FR have now received keys for the new program that Mueller is implementing concerning foreclosed homes. In reviewing all of the material that has been supplied thus far, there is one major thing that has not been addressed. The pay. Remember there are two versions of Mueller pay. Those who document their hours and travel and those under the flat rate fee. As I look at the requirements that are being requested of the type of inspection and the number of photographs including attics and crawl spaces is Mueller going to step up to the plate and offer fair compensation? I do not know. One thing that concerns me and should concern all FR is the 24-48 hour turn around. What happens if you check your assignments at 9:00 AM and you live in an area where you typically drive 30-45 miles one way to conduct inspections. You return and find an assignmnt that came in for the Foreclosure inspections, after you left your office. Now you are under the gun to either turn around and re-drive that distance (Gas at nearly 4.00 a gallon) or get those not so friendly notes that you have not complied with the initial turn around. Do you have an option to opt out of the FoHreclosure inspections and continue doing your regular residential inHispections, something to think about.

Again giving credit to Mueller at least they are looking at other options for the FR, however just remember the wages associated with the inspections need to be fair or you will loose those good inspectors who have devoted their time and expertise to Mueller.

Hi Robert,
Well, what can I say? You talked about being asked to do lengthy brush reports but nit get paid for them. Where is your territory? China? I clock in for every house, every report, every photo and every phone call. If your manager is expecting you to work for free, well, that's illegal. Maybe there's a renegade Mueller district that still practices slavery and I just don't know about it. All I know is that I work for a company who has never lied to me about my pay, and has paid me for every mile and every minute clocked in. I pay my mortgage with this job and I only work 20-24 hours a week. It's safe to assume that diferent districts have different budgets, but postung that the company doesn't pay you for some of the time you work is nuts. Being asked by a manager to do brush reports for free is something I would talk to the NY office about, unless you like working for free and just want to complain here about it. Also, the forclosure key program hasn't started yet, so assuming that reps will be in attic spaces is something you just imagined, not read or was told, unless the entire company changed their policy on this.

[Carlos Pineiro]

PS: To be specific, if you take an average 15 min, say, to do an exterior, and you are suddenly being asked to do a brush report with photos, and you clock in for the extra time to do this, and your manager denies you the pay for that time, call your regional manager. Posting that you aren't compensated for work done is illegal. If any company actually does this, it's a much bigger issue than just an internet forum complaint post.

[Jim Starkey]

The way I under stand it is you can take either the hourly pay and mileage or the base rate which ever is better for you. Some guy's that live in say New York city can do a but load within 2 or three miles of their house really fast since its so densely packed and actually make more taking the base pay so its an option from what I have heard but not 100% sure on that. Ask and maybe you can find out.

[Veteran Field Rep]

The issues regarding compensation presented in this thread largely pertain to the Independent Contractors who work(ed) w/ this vendor.

The flat rate per report remains just that, regardless of increasing information demands, mileage driven, or personal time and expense incurred. I had a hard time believing that the gross fees to the clients were not increased over a 7 year period, and increases not passed down to the field rep performing the work. Among the uncompensated service increases mandated during my tenure:

- interior inspections suddenly requiring invasive kitchen & bath photos in addition to the standard elec & heating components
- daily call-log entries becoming more and more the norm
- address verification photos on every survey, even if insured interviewed
- photo labeling becoming more and more the norm
- increased time service demands
- multi-family homes requiring each apartment inspected
- Dwelling condition reports increasingly disguised as nominal fee "occupancy checks"; same info, half the fee

Many other vendors I work with now have time-service incentives, extra photo fees, which can add up over the course of a month. This is the business model I would create if I built my own company.

No one in the field ever got "rich" just doing inspections, but everyone has a right to feel justly compensated providing the services that ultimately enrich the pockets of the business principals.

[Joseph Dalessio]

The issues regarding compensation presented in this thread largely pertain to the Independent Contractors who work(ed) w/ this vendor.

The flat rate per report remains just that, regardless of increasing information demands, mileage driven, or personal time and expense incurred. I had a hard time believing that the gross fees to the clients were not increased over a 7 year period, and increases not passed down to the field rep performing the work. Among the uncompensated service increases mandated during my tenure:

- interior inspections suddenly requiring invasive kitchen & bath photos in addition to the standard elec & heating components
- daily call-log entries becoming more and more the norm
- address verification photos on every survey, even if insured interviewed
- photo labeling becoming more and more the norm
- increased time service demands
- multi-family homes requiring each apartment inspected
- Dwelling condition reports increasingly disguised as nominal fee "occupancy checks"; same info, half the fee

Many other vendors I work with now have time-service incentives, extra photo fees, which can add up over the course of a month. This is the business model I would create if I built my own company.

No one in the field ever got "rich" just doing inspections, but everyone has a right to feel justly compensated providing the services that ultimately enrich the pockets of the business principals.

Yes - the "occupancy checks" are my biggest annoyance. It's a blatant lie to call those "occupancy checks" when in reality they are nothing less than an "exterior, no diagram" that you get paid half as much for. I remember when occupancy checks first started, they were very simple - take a picture of each side of the house, check if anyone lives there, fill out a form with 3 or 4 check boxes. Done. Now it's find and document all hazards, conduct a full at door interview, take extra photos, and answer a form that's just as long as the exterior, no diagram.

Carlos, you keep bringing up them lying about pay. You are right - they don't lie to anyone, but that's not what people in this thread are really talking about. They are talking about not being fairly compensated for an ever increasing workload. We are all aware that we are free to leave anytime, but I think to most of us, this may be more an opportunity to vent our frustrations - why would a company be so stingy - they are just asking to loose a great deal of veteran field reps who are good at what they do. The only reason I can think of is that they have somehow figured out how to make it cheaper to just hire new people than to keep the good ones. Somehow I doubt it though - the problem more likely lies with the people at the very top being unwilling to pay the long time employees what they deserve.

[Carlos Pineiro]

Yes - the "occupancy checks" are my biggest annoyance. It's a blatant lie to call those "occupancy checks" when in reality they are nothing less than an "exterior, no diagram" that you get paid half as much for. I remember when occupancy checks first started, they were very simple - take a picture of each side of the house, check if anyone lives there, fill out a form with 3 or 4 check boxes. Done. Now it's find and document all hazards, conduct a full at door interview, take extra photos, and answer a form that's just as long as the exterior, no diagram.

Carlos, you keep bringing up them lying about pay. You are right - they don't lie to anyone, but that's not what people in this thread are really talking about. They are talking about not being fairly compensated for an ever increasing workload. We are all aware that we are free to leave anytime, but I think to most of us, this may be more an opportunity to vent our frustrations - why would a company be so stingy - they are just asking to loose a great deal of veteran field reps who are good at what they do. The only reason I can think of is that they have somehow figured out how to make it cheaper to just hire new people than to keep the good ones. Somehow I doubt it though - the problem more likely lies with the people at the very top being unwilling to pay the long time employees what they deserve.
Well, in the case of 1099 people working for a flat rate and being asked to do more without being compensated, that sucks. And I understand that this forum is the place for some people to vent about their job or pay. It's the same for any forum about any industry. My answer to that is still the same: if you don't like the job or pay, get another one. Mueller isnt the last employer on earth. Without the boring details, I can write about several other industries I personally know of that constantly add new and different responsibilities for the same money. It's not fair, but it's how those businesses do business. The state of the entire country is subjects to this inequity for a long time, not just home inspectors or mueller reps.
What can you do about it? Not much. Can you truthfully say that this company is deceptive as I have read in a few posts? No. Being deceptive and paying low wages are two different things.
Anyway thanks to those here how helped me see how different regions have different operating budgets and pay scales. It's all very interesting. If I was offered the compensation some people here have claimed, I wouldn't have taken this job. I can choose to do that. Some people are in the financial position that leaves them with few choices. We all have different pay rates, needs, and demands from our jobs. It doesnt make much sense to compare them here because of those differences, but the ifo is good to know, so thanks.

[Kristi Silber]

(This post is about fee-based employment.)

If you don't like it, get another jobThe above has been said many times now. I don't think it's helpful because it ignores several issues:

- it can be very difficult and daunting to find a job, especially these days
- just because someone sees the negative in something doesn't mean they are ready to give up on it entirely - but the negative is still there
- people are talking about their perception of a systemic corporate injustice(s), and finding a new job doesn't stop that injustice, it only makes it fall on someone else
- not everybody experiences the perceived injustice(s). Unless they are subjected to it day in, day out, how can those who don't experience it judge what it really feels like?


"Without the boring details, I can write about several other industries I personally know of that constantly add new and different responsibilities for the same money." (Carlos)

We're not talking about the same money. In a fee-based system, if you spend more time on something you make less per hour. Is it fair to have to work longer to make the same pay? I would like to hear about an industry that constantly adds requirements resulting in lower pay, never gives raises, and hasn't changed its pay scale in 7 years...in other words, you could work there 7 years and have your hourly pay consistently decrease over time. Would you be content? (I certainly wasn't happy to have my hourly income drop 15% for 3 months just because someone quit and I had to take over their territory. My option was to work for a flat hourly of $12/hr.)

There isn't only geographic variation in pay, there's variation from manager to manager. You can have your income change just because you get a new manager, and that is not right.

Here's what I consider a deception: The average desk + site time for HVs is 120 min., interior/exteriors is 45 min., exteriors is 30 min., and OVs/ext. with no diag. is 16 min. This is what my former manager told me. I'm sure some people do have averages around this, but if these were real averages, a) the average hourly income for fee-based FRs would be far higher, and b) the numbers would be far less neat. One average of exactly 2 hours is highly unlikely, but taken all together the numbers are so improbable they become laughable.


Even though there are some things I think Mueller could improve on, I like my job and I'm going to stick with it for now. There are plenty of positive things about it, and many people in this thread have enumerated them - this hasn't been entirely about complaints. However, there are some complaints that come up again and again, and a company with wise management would pay attention to that (especially since they are totally dependent on us to produce quality reports!). The fact that the workforce is so spread out, the employees so isolated from each other, gives a company a tremendous advantage over its employees because it's very difficult for the latter to communicate with each other about their grievances or show a unified front when confronting management.

The perception among many FRs is that Mueller takes advantange of them and only sees them as cogs in a machine. In some industries this would be par for the course, but Mueller is entirely dependent on FRs to produce quality reports. QA can find some problems, but an FR can cut many corners QA would never know about. The fee-based system and the lack of effort Mueller makes to inspire loyalty or a sense of quality consciousness makes employees more likely to cut those corners and produce a lower-quality report. I don't do this because I want to be fair to the homeowner, and ultimately to everyone out there who buys homeowner's insurance. We perform an important function.