ESA course and certification

[JIM MURPHY]

Good Morning to all!

Has anyone taken the ESA course for CMI and CMA and is it worth it? Mold issues have become very prevalent here and I feel additional education is necessary to keep up with other inspectors and the times.

Thanks,

Jim Murphy

Antebellum Home Inspection, LLC.

[Scott Patterson]

Good Morning to all!

Has anyone taken the ESA course for CMI and CMA and is it worth it? Mold issues have become very prevalent here and I feel additional education is necessary to keep up with other inspectors and the times.

Thanks,

Jim Murphy

Antebellum Home Inspection, LLC.

What is a CMI or a CMA?

[CHARLIE VAN FLEET]

jim

i did take the CMI course and yes it is very good..but here in colorado i don't see alot of mold nor have i advertised myself yet--but i'm ready if i do to the cost of i think $299 for course and $800 for swabs and air pump. if you have alot of mold -take the class--oh yeah another $150 to be member of esa
charlie

[JIM MURPHY]

What is a CMI or a CMA?

Scott, Certified Mold Inspector and Certified Mold Accessor.

[Scott Patterson]

Scott, Certified Mold Inspector and Certified Mold Accessor.

OK, Thanks.

Personally I don't think home inspectors should be testing for mold. IMO, it is along the line of the old Snake Oil salesman. Telling a person they have mold does little for them other than letting them know what most everyone will already know. If you see mold, smell mold you have mold. Knowing what type makes little difference, it all needs to be cleaned up and the moisture source stopped.

I know that it is an ancillary service that folks tack on to increase the bottom line, but it also has a great deal of liability for the small amount of money you will get from it. Concentrate on building your home inspection business, you will make more with home inspections than selling add on services that do little for your client.

[Bill Thacker]

I know that it is an ancillary service that folks tack on to increase the bottom line, but it also has a great deal of liability for the small amount of money you will get from it.

Hi Scott,

I know this is an old thread....but I would like to ask where is the liability? The lab analyzes a sample of air drawn on x day. It contained z.

I know insurance companies charge way too much.....but are you aware of anyone being sued over a mold test?

I agree they are not informative and have little value since their are no mold guidelines, at least in my area, but comparing HI that perform them as snake oil salesman is kind of harsh. What is wrong with providing a service the buyer is looking for? Many asthmatics and others will look for this test and if the HI does not perform it someone will.

Anyway, has anyone ever had a complaint from the results of their mold test?

Thanks,
Bill

[Jerry Peck]

I agree they are not informative

and have little value

since their are no mold guidelines,

I understand and agree with that part, but ...

... the above does not go with the part below


but comparing HI that perform them as snake oil salesman is kind of harsh.

You just confirmed they "are not informative", "have little value", and that there are "no mold guidelines" - charging people good money for nothing is what that is doing, and that is what the old snake oil salesman did.


What is wrong with providing a service the buyer is looking for?

Please explain just what "service" is being provided by doing mold sampling.


Many asthmatics and others will look for this test and if the HI does not perform it someone will.

Hopefully, they will contact someone qualified for that work, but they should first be checking with their doctors, THEN contacting an industrial hygienist or micro biologist for checking out what is there and which the doctor confirmed they are allergic to.

[Bill Thacker]

I understand and agree with that part, but ...

... the above does not go with the part below



You just confirmed they "are not informative", "have little value", and that there are "no mold guidelines" - charging people good money for nothing is what that is doing, and that is what the old snake oil salesman did.



Please explain just what "service" is being provided by doing mold sampling.



Hopefully, they will contact someone qualified for that work, but they should first be checking with their doctors, THEN contacting an industrial hygienist or micro biologist for checking out what is there and which the doctor confirmed they are allergic to.

The service being provided is the sampling and analysis provided. The individual is supposed to interpret that or perhaps have results analyzed by the specialists you mention.

Are you suggesting mold abatement is akin to that because clorox and a sponge could do a lot of mold cleanup?

Or if you think they are on the up and up and they were called in to perform the same sampling, are they sheisters as well?

I say the results are of little value because there is no standard. Some argue there is not even a known medical link established.

People providing a mold test are not snake oil salesman. What promise to cure what ailment was made? That is why I say it is a little harsh to use that language.

Jerry,

instead of finding what you dislike about the post, you could have been more helpful by actually answering the question. I appreciate you taking the time to reply to this old thread but over analyzing my question instead of answering it did nothing to clarify anything.

Bill

[Scott Patterson]

Hi Scott,

I know this is an old thread....but I would like to ask where is the liability? The lab analyzes a sample of air drawn on x day. It contained z.

I know insurance companies charge way too much.....but are you aware of anyone being sued over a mold test?

I agree they are not informative and have little value since their are no mold guidelines, at least in my area, but comparing HI that perform them as snake oil salesman is kind of harsh. What is wrong with providing a service the buyer is looking for? Many asthmatics and others will look for this test and if the HI does not perform it someone will.

Anyway, has anyone ever had a complaint from the results of their mold test?

Thanks,
Bill

Hey Bill,

First you need to know that I do not belive home inspectors should be testing for mold. We should tell our clients that mold testing does not tell you anything that you already don't know, you have mold! No need to take their money for a test that does nothing for them. This is what is akin to a snake oil salesman.

The liability rears it ugly head when the person that you did a test for relies on that information. It does not matter if all you did was take the samples, send them to a lab and hand them the results and walk away. You are a link in the chain of custody and will be in the line of fire if an ambulance chasing attorney gets involved.

[Bill Thacker]

Hey Bill,

First you need to know that I do not belive home inspectors should be testing for mold. We should tell our clients that mold testing does not tell you anything that you already don't know, you have mold!

The liability rears it ugly head when the person that you did a test for relies on that information. It does not matter if all you did was take the samples, send them to a lab and hand them the results and walk away. You are a link in the chain of custody and will be in the line of fire if an ambulance chasing attorney gets involved.

Do you have knowledge of this happening?

[Scott Patterson]

Do you have knowledge of this happening?

Yes, I do. It was on a case that I was called in on as an expert to try and defend a home inspector in Mississippi in 2002. We did good until the part of mold testing found it's way to the discovery phase of the case. The home inspector part of the case was settled at this point at my recommendation. The case also had 4 other defendants, US Inspect was one of them for an EIFS clearance report that was done by a guy who admitted he had only done 3 other EIFS inspections. Then the agent and a structural engineer were pulled in as well. It was a mess, but our fellow got out for about 30% of what he was being sued for, and that was not telling the buyer that the test showed a strain of mold that caused problems for folks that are HIV positive. This is when the home inspector gets screwed!

The entire case was settled after about two years. The insurance companies just wanted it to go away and it did.

A gentleman by the name of Caoimhin Connell has a great deal more information on this than I do. His site has some information Forensic Industrial Hygiene (http://www.forensic-applications.com/)

[Bill Thacker]

Yes, I do.

Certainly that is an extreme case and infrequent aren't they?

Thanks,

Bill

[Jerry Peck]

What is wrong with providing a service the buyer is looking for?


You just confirmed they "are not informative", "have little value", and that there are "no mold guidelines" - charging people good money for nothing is what that is doing, and that is what the old snake oil salesman did.

Please explain just what "service" is being provided by doing mold sampling.


you could have been more helpful by actually answering the question.


Bill,

I DID answer one of YOUR questions. Apparently you did not like that answer, but *I DID* answer it.

[Bill Thacker]

Bill,

I DID answer one of YOUR questions. Apparently you did not like that answer, but *I DID* answer it.

Why must you be such so pompous Jerry?

[Jerry Peck]

Bill,

Why must you ask a question, not like the answer, then bit(h about the answer you get?

If you will only accept the answer you like, then when you ask the question tell us how you want it answered ... or, better yet, don't even bother asking the question.

[Stephen Meyer]

Getting ready to sit for the test in March in Texas. Many states have environmental requirements for mold licensing. HI are not qualified and should only report evidence of. Mold is an issue, but the source causing the issue needs to be identified. Texas has a process...Assessment, which includes the plan for removal, A licensed contractor, licensed technician and proper protocols, reports to the state. Very strict program here..BTW...Asbestos is abatement, mold removal is remediation.

A good book is by the Institute of Medicine," Damp Indoor Spaces.". The EPA has good information as well.

A consultant cannot remove...A contractor cannot consult...

Those national certifications may not work in specific states. Does not hold credence in TX.

Steve

[Scott Patterson]

Getting ready to sit for the test in March in Texas. Many states have environmental requirements for mold licensing. HI are not qualified and should only report evidence of. Mold is an issue, but the source causing the issue needs to be identified. Texas has a process...Assessment, which includes the plan for removal, A licensed contractor, licensed technician and proper protocols, reports to the state. Very strict program here..BTW...Asbestos is abatement, mold removal is remediation.

A good book is by the Institute of Medicine," Damp Indoor Spaces.". The EPA has good information as well.

A consultant cannot remove...A contractor cannot consult...

Those national certifications may not work in specific states. Does not hold credence in TX.

Steve

I think that Texas is the only state that has a license requirement for mold testing.

[Scott Patterson]

Certainly that is an extreme case and infrequent aren't they?

Thanks,

Bill

I don't know how extreme it was. This was in Mississippi in a city with a population of around 50,000. If you look at it on a per capita basis, it could be happening more frequently than we think. Do you want take that chance for the small profit that is realized from mold testing?

[Ted Menelly]

Getting ready to sit for the test in March in Texas. Many states have environmental requirements for mold licensing. HI are not qualified and should only report evidence of. Mold is an issue, but the source causing the issue needs to be identified. Texas has a process...Assessment, which includes the plan for removal, A licensed contractor, licensed technician and proper protocols, reports to the state. Very strict program here..BTW...Asbestos is abatement, mold removal is remediation.

A good book is by the Institute of Medicine," Damp Indoor Spaces.". The EPA has good information as well.

A consultant cannot remove...A contractor cannot consult...

Those national certifications may not work in specific states. Does not hold credence in TX.

Steve

I am not arguing with you with the exception of the highlighted statement.

One can consult with anyone they wish about mold. It cannot be a legal state mold consultation and report but they can still consult with any contractor about mold.

As far as mold removal. Anyone, including the home owner can remove mold. If they are calling themselves a mold remediation company then there is a license involved. As far as removing some drywall and such and replacing it, any contractor can do that. One does not have to be a licensed mold removal company.

To be a mold inspector or to be a mold remediation company you must be licensed.

The neighbors next door can come over with their kids and rip the drywall out, spray the area down with bleach solution (in most cases), put the drywall back up and be done with it. No one needs a license for that.

In short inspector=license. Remediator=license

[Bill Thacker]

I don't know how extreme it was. This was in Mississippi in a city with a population of around 50,000. If you look at it on a per capita basis, it could be happening more frequently than we think. Do you want take that chance for the small profit that is realized from mold testing?

Thanks Scott,

You have been helpful. I appreciate you sharing your experience. The case you were involved in sounds like everyone was being sued. What was the original suit for?

Best regards,

Bill

[Bill Thacker]

Getting ready to sit for the test in March in Texas. Many states have environmental requirements for mold licensing. HI are not qualified and should only report evidence of. Mold is an issue, but the source causing the issue needs to be identified. Texas has a process...Assessment, which includes the plan for removal, A licensed contractor, licensed technician and proper protocols, reports to the state. Very strict program here..BTW...Asbestos is abatement, mold removal is remediation.

A good book is by the Institute of Medicine," Damp Indoor Spaces.". The EPA has good information as well.

A consultant cannot remove...A contractor cannot consult...

Those national certifications may not work in specific states. Does not hold credence in TX.

Steve


Thanks Steve,

I saw an episode of King of the Hill sometime ago that spoofed Texas mold inspections. It was rather amusing.

Good luck in you certification!

Bill