White wires to circuit breakers in service panel

[Howard Tennyson]

Greetings to all!

What is the proper write-up for noting white wires leading to circuit breakers in the service panel? Does it matter what the age of the home is?

Thanks in advance.

Howard Tennyson
Ace Home Inspection,LLC

[Howard Tennyson]

Here is another example of what I'm talking about....

[Zibby Swieca]

Incorrect use of industry standard wire color coding. White neutral wiring being used for positive wire. Not marked as such. Safety issue.

Zibby Swieca
Professional Inspector TREC LIC # 9645
Rockway Home Inspection
www.SanAntonioTexasHomeInspector.com (http://www.sanantoniotexashomeinspector.com/)

[Richard Stanley]

Those are 220 circuits - no big deal. Double lugged neutrals @ bus in 1st pic are.

[Howard Tennyson]

Thanks..

This panel was a mess. A pool and spa were installed and whoever did the electrical work wasn't good. I reported the double/triple tapping and an electrician fixed the wiring.

[Gunnar Alquist]

Greetings to all! What is the proper write-up for noting white wires leading to circuit breakers in the service panel? Does it matter what the age of the home is? Thanks in advance. Howard Tennyson Ace Home Inspection,LLC

I note that white is reserved for the "neutral" conductor and should be marked with another color, such as black. I do not regard it as a safety hazard.

[Jerry Peck]

Those are 220 circuits - no big deal. Double lugged neutrals @ bus in 1st pic are.


HUH?

It is no big deal to use them on 240 volt circuits, just on 120 volt circuits?

What logic did you use to get there? Please explain that one to me.


What is the proper write-up for noting white wires leading to circuit breakers in the service panel? Does it matter what the age of the home is?

Wording to the affect that:

White conductors are only allowed to be used for grounded conductors (not 'hot' conductors), and, when use for other than grounded conductors (i.e., when used as 'hot' conductors) the white conductors are required to be *PERMANENTLY* re-identified by painting or other approved *PERMANENT* means (i.e., by painting), and must be permanently re-identified with a color other suitable for that use, i.e, "black" or "red" in most cases. This permanent re-identification is to be done at all terminations and at all areas visible and accessible, i.e., if you can see the white wire used as a 'hot' wire and you can access it, then that portion must be permanently re-identified by painting to the appropriate color.

This is a safety concern.

[Jerry Peck]

Howard,

Also, did you write up the following (shown in your photos):

- more than one neutral/grounded conductor in a terminal (1st photo)

- more than one groundING conductor in the large terminal (2nd photo)

- more than one (three) groundING conductors in each of the smaller terminals (typically, 1 or 2 area allowed in each terminal when used for grounding conductors, a few panels will allow 3 - but not all panels allow 3 grounding conductors in a single terminal) - you would need to read the label on the panel to know if 3 were allowed or not (2nd photo)

[Billy Stephens]

- you would need to read the label on the panel to know if 3 were allowed or not (2nd photo)
.
looks like 4 on the bottom terminal.
.

[Howard Tennyson]

Howard,

Also, did you write up the following (shown in your photos):

- more than one neutral/grounded conductor in a terminal (1st photo)

- more than one groundING conductor in the large terminal (2nd photo)

- more than one (three) groundING conductors in each of the smaller terminals (typically, 1 or 2 area allowed in each terminal when used for grounding conductors, a few panels will allow 3 - but not all panels allow 3 grounding conductors in a single terminal) - you would need to read the label on the panel to know if 3 were allowed or not (2nd photo)

Jerry,

Yes I did report the multiple double and triple tapping of wires. This type of work seems to be prevalent in my area,...especially the white wires running into hot CBs.

Thanks for your inputs.

Howard

[Erby Crofutt]

Gunnar, what do you tell that plumber's helper who grabbed the hot white wire about it NOT being a safety hazard!

(Well, other than, "Hey dummy, don't put your hands on stuff you don't know anything about!")

[James Duffin]

A plumber should not be in a panel for any reason unless they are a licensed electrician.

Anybody who depends on a wire color for "safety" is not very smart.

[Erby Crofutt]

Uh, James. it may be a difficult concept but wires have TWO ends.

You won't see me saying plumber's helpers are smart! Heck you won't even see me saying all plumbers are smart.

Same with HVAC techs and helpers.

Same with electricians

Well, you know the rest of the drill.

INCLUDING Home Inspectors.


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