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  1. #1
    Richard Franklin's Avatar
    Richard Franklin Guest

    Default Definition of a Home Inspector

    I'm presently involved in a Federal Court Case involving Construction Experts.
    My feeling is that a HI is not a Construction Expert. Only a Generalist. Complaint alludes to fact an HI would be considered an expert and licensed as one. My feeling this is an attempt to harass and is weak. Or muddy the water to distract from the facts.
    I'm trying to put together a rough survey. The HI business being a realitively new area, there is limited informaiton available.

    I know what the answers should be, but would like to get it from others.

    The questions I need answered are:

    1. What is the nature of an HI Inspection.
    A. as an expert?
    B. as generalist?

    2. Does an HI make a code enforcement inspection: yes or no.

    3. How would you describe an HI Inspection.

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  2. #2
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: Definition of a Home Inspector

    The HI business being a realitively new area, there is limited informaiton available.
    Richard: Where are you located? You have no information in your profile. Your name is Dick and we don't know where you've been . . . .

    From the U.S. Department of Labor

    "Home inspectors conduct inspections of newly built or previously owned homes, condominiums, town homes, manufactured homes, apartments, and at times commercial buildings. Home inspection has become a standard practice in the home-purchasing process. Home inspectors are most often hired by prospective home buyers to inspect and report on the condition of a home’s systems, components, and structure. Although they look for and report violations of building codes, they do not have the power to enforce compliance with the codes. Typically, they are hired either immediately prior to a purchase offer on a home or as a contingency to a sales contract. In addition to examining structural quality, home inspectors inspect all home systems and features, including roofing as well as the exterior, attached garage or carport, foundation, interior, plumbing, and electrical, heating, and cooling systems. Some home inspections are done for homeowners who want an evaluation of their home’s condition, for example, prior to putting the home on the market or as a way to diagnose problems."

    "A business with illogically high liability, slim profit margins and limited economies of scale. An incredibly diverse, multi-disciplined consulting service, delivered under difficult in-field circumstances, before a hostile audience in an impossibly short time frame, requiring the production of an extraordinarily detailed technical report, almost instantly, without benefit of research facilities or resources." - Alan Carson

    "A home inspection is a non-invasive examination of the condition of a home, often in connection with the sale of that home. This is carried out by a home inspector, who usually has special equipment and training to carry out such inspections. A home inspection report is then issued by the home inspector. Many home inspectors use home inspection software.
    An inspector will check the roof, basement, heating system, water heater, air-conditioning system, structure, plumbing, electrical, and many other aspects of buildings looking for improper building practices, those items that require extensive repairs, items that are general maintenance issues, as well as some fire and safety issues. Home owners or home buyers often use a home inspection service before selling or buying their houses. A home inspector conducts a thorough examination of a home to detect any potential systems or components requiring attention. A home owner receives a detailed report of the condition of his/her home so that he/she can plan for needed repairs and upgrades when it is time to make them.
    A home inspector is sometimes confused with a real estate appraiser. A home inspector determines the condition of a structure, whereas an appraiser determines the value of a property.
    A home cannot "fail" an inspection, as there is no score or passing grade given. A professional home inspection is an examination of the current condition of a house. It is not an appraisal. It is not a municipal inspection, which verifies local building code code compliance. A home inspector, therefore, will not pass or fail a house, but rather describe its physical condition and indicate what components and systems may need a major or minor repair or replacement." - Wikipedia.org

    That took 30 seconds to cut and paste. What sort of attorney did you say you were? On a scal from one to ten, I mean.

    I know what the answers should be, but would like to get it from others.
    Dick: Contact JP for our hourly rates.



  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Location
    Spring Hill (Nashville), TN
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    Default Re: Definition of a Home Inspector

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Franklin View Post
    I'm presently involved in a Federal Court Case involving Construction Experts.
    My feeling is that a HI is not a Construction Expert. Only a Generalist. Complaint alludes to fact an HI would be considered an expert and licensed as one. My feeling this is an attempt to harass and is weak. Or muddy the water to distract from the facts.
    I'm trying to put together a rough survey. The HI business being a realitively new area, there is limited informaiton available.

    I know what the answers should be, but would like to get it from others.

    The questions I need answered are:

    1. What is the nature of an HI Inspection.
    A. as an expert?
    B. as generalist?

    2. Does an HI make a code enforcement inspection: yes or no.

    3. How would you describe an HI Inspection.
    Hi Richard,

    I think that you will find many of us on this discussion board that could help you. Many of us do litigation support work in multiple states.

    Give us your location and I'm sure one of us could help you out, for a fee that is. Many of us make our living providing the information you are looking for. I have several good friends who specialize in Federal court cases across the country.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  4. #4
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: Definition of a Home Inspector

    I think that you will find many of us on this discussion board that could help you.
    Scott: I placed a bet with myself that you would be the first to come to this boy's rescue. I won.

    Ever the Vulcan ambassador . . . I tend toward Romulanism.


  5. #5
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: Definition of a Home Inspector

    My feeling is that a HI is not a Construction Expert. Only a Generalist.
    Richard: Agreed.

    Complaint alludes to fact an HI would be considered an expert and licensed as one.
    Richard: I know of no state licensing authority that describes HIs as experts.

    My feeling this is an attempt to harass and is weak. Or muddy the water to distract from the facts.
    Richard: Agreed.

    The HI business being a realitively new area, there is limited informaiton available.
    Richard: Disagree. The profession is nearing 40 years of age. Even the major associations have been around for 30+ years.

    1. What is the nature of an HI Inspection.
    A. as an expert?
    B. as generalist?
    Richard: Generalist.


    2. Does an HI make a code enforcement inspection: yes or no.
    Richard: No, because the HI has no authority to enforce the code.

    3. How would you describe an HI Inspection.
    Richard: I sent you that in my earlier, and nastier message. Which, by the way, was not a personal affront, but rather an attempt to get the Vulcan ambassador out of his coma. Here he is BHL:

    ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images

  6. #6
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
    Ted Menelly Guest

    Default Re: Definition of a Home Inspector

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Franklin View Post
    I'm presently involved in a Federal Court Case involving Construction Experts.
    My feeling is that a HI is not a Construction Expert. Only a Generalist. Complaint alludes to fact an HI would be considered an expert and licensed as one. My feeling this is an attempt to harass and is weak. Or muddy the water to distract from the facts.
    I'm trying to put together a rough survey. The HI business being a realitively new area, there is limited informaiton available.

    I know what the answers should be, but would like to get it from others.

    The questions I need answered are:

    1. What is the nature of an HI Inspection.
    A. as an expert?
    B. as generalist?

    2. Does an HI make a code enforcement inspection: yes or no.

    3. How would you describe an HI Inspection.
    We report concerns we find in a home. We are by no means to be concidered the know all end all. When we find concerns we put those concerns in the report and put forth to our clients that we ARE NOT the expert in that filed and an electrician or whomever the concerns has to do with will do their own more in depth evaluation of the concern to see if there is any more to it and then offer their opinion as to what the repair intails and what the cost for that concern is.

    Many of us have vast past experience in construction, classes, code books etc. We do not perform repairs on items and cannot offer repairs on items we find. We are not full time electricians, plumbers etc.

    Inspection may be based on codes in many instances but a home inspection can or should not be concidered a code or code compliant inspection.

    Some have many ICC certifications for the different areas of building code. Even those folks as a home inspector are not doing code inspections. They are acting as generalist not the experts. The experts for each field are those folks that follow us.

    Many are trying to turn home inspection into what it was never meant to be. They are trying to take us away from being the generalist to the absolute know all end all. That is not and should never be whhat a home inspection is.

    We are there to REDUCE the risks and should not be looked at as one that can take away all risk in a home inspection. We report on some safety items and or possible health risks. Most items in a home could be concidered either. We are not meant to list all and explain all health or possible safety concerns.

    Could a majority build a home from the ground up with our knowledge, yes.

    We are more of the Jack of all trades but the master of none. There are very few people on this planet no matter what codes they know that could be profitient in all trades. That is why there is seperate trades.

    Could we answer an endless barrage of questions about all the systems in the home, yes.

    The problem with this whole law suit thing with home inspectors is so many tell so many others that the home inspector knows everything about every trade and will miss nothing. It is not like an electrician going into a home and installing outlets and switches. It is not like a plumber going into a home and installing the sinks. There is a massive amount of knowledge that must be known by inspectors.

    You will se the banter going on all the time on here with one home inspector thumping his chest on code knowledge and the other disagreeing or saying they are interpreting it wrong.
    Yes codes are behind many items we inspect. We cannot get at all items. We cannot inspect all items. We can be distracted by sometimes many people but are still expected to find everything. That is not going to happen.

    They only thing any home inspector should ever be able to be suid for would be the blantant fact that he may not have gone into that home and had no intention on making a serious effort to find concerns. If he was diligent and noted a multitude of items in the home then I guess he was not just sleeping. I highlight all concerns in red on my report. Sometimes the entire report is filled with concerns highlighted in read. Some folks will still say to you. "Well I saw most of these items" My answer to that is "And?" Did he spend a few hours in the home crawling around on his hand and knees trying to do his best to point out as many items as possible and then spend a couple hours on the report?

    There might be one in a thousand that really do not care and don't even try.

    Six months later someone finds something that may have been missed by an inspector. It may have been out in the open, right in front of there face. He did not see it before and the inspector sneezed and when he looked up from his sneeze he was looking slightly in another spot. My answert to that is SO WHAT. We are human, we do sneeze, we do get interupted. We are inspecting ever single square in and every system inside and outside the home. We will miss something. It could even be somthing fairly substantial. We are only there for a few hours in the lifetime of the home. It took thousands of hours to build the home.

    As a home inspector he is a generalist.

    He could possibly be an expert or what some will say an overall expert. Knowledgable in all and can get fairly deep in all but certainly not the know all end all.


  7. #7
    Richard Stanley's Avatar
    Richard Stanley Guest

    Default Re: Definition of a Home Inspector

    A person is only an expert if offered to and accepted by the court as such.
    A person may be considered an expert by the general public due to reputation and having a bit more than common knowledge about a subject.
    In either case, the testimony of that person can, and usually is, contradicted by another 'expert'.
    Can an expert be wrong? It would seem that at least half of them are, or at least, not believable.


  8. #8
    Richard Franklin's Avatar
    Richard Franklin Guest

    Default Re: Definition of a Home Inspector

    Thank you for your replies. Some of the answers were good and what I was looking. I was a member of this forum when Brian started back in the dark ages. I met Brian over the internet years ago and in person the first time at a CREIA membership meeting in San Diego in 1998. For those of you who don't know, Brian was the pioneer leading the HI industry into the wonders of the internet.

    I have been in this industry for over 40 years. Way before there were organizations, and any of those still around know what I feel about HI organizations. Some of them. I do favor CREIA. But I don't live in California.

    As for time in Service HI organizations have only been around for a little over 30 years. I'm setting her looking at a 25 year anniversary plaque from CREIA in 2001. If I remember right, CREIA was a fore runner to ANSHI. And then you have the alphabet soup of all of the other HI organizations, none of which have an office in DC. Architects, Engineers and Constructors have been here from the beginning of time. All of these industries have professional organizaitons with national headquarters in DC. Enough said.

    My reasons for asking the questions, the answers of which I already know are that when I'm deposed by the opposing council I'm not stating what I think or know, but what a selection of HI's feel in the industry. This is a public forum for HI's. The replies are a Consensus of opinions from HI's. Just remember what you write because this is a public forum and just about anyone can join and view what you have written. So you can either confirm that you are a professional as some of you did here, or leave some wondering where the professionalism is?

    If you would like to take the time to read my CV I have attached it. For those who offered there services for a fee, at my age the only thing I would need is someone to carry my ladder. If you feel qualified and can keep up please send me your Resume. Again thanks to those who answered the questions in an honest straight forward way. It was appreciated.

    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by Richard Franklin; 02-14-2009 at 01:58 AM.

  9. #9
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
    Ted Menelly Guest

    Default Re: Definition of a Home Inspector

    Mr Richard

    "So you can either confirm that you are a professional as some of you did here, or leave some wondering where the professionalism is"

    And what constitutes professionalism?????

    Is it your opinion that know one ever heard of to begin with or some abstract concocted opinion of whom you wish to choose is the epitome of professionalism.

    You may have been around for 40 years in this business but please remember one thing as I always remind myself, you may have not even gotten it right yet. I for one have done some form of inspecting right out of high school 37 years ago. An actual what might resemble a home inspection about 32 years ago. I for one am still trying to figure out what a home inspection is and is not and keep having to change with the times. I don't like where home inspection is going. Home inspection is getting more and more geared towards you will need to be licensed and certified in every trade to inspect a home and act as the absolute know all end all. That is not what we are. If we get taken out of the generalist category then all home buyers might as well just go get the true tradesman in every field to inspect their home. What we need is a well rounded knowledge of the industry. The basic understanding that a home inspection is not a code inspection but much of what we inspect is based on codes. We are not (some are) licensed HVAC tech or plumbers or electricians.

    If we are turning in to the absolute then something is wrong with this picture. If we are suppose to learn and retain the knowledge of every trade and be licensed (some call their ICC certs a license and feel it better than actually working in a trade for decades) in every field then there is something wrong with this picture.

    So, enough, what does Jerry call it unless he does it, ranting. Lets here your point of view/opinion.

    Well since you already know that is.

    Oh yeah, Aaron, just a tweek harsh, don't yeah think????


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Spring Hill (Nashville), TN
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    Default Re: Definition of a Home Inspector

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Franklin View Post
    Thank you for your replies. Some of the answers were good and what I was looking. I was a member of this forum when Brian started back in the dark ages. I met Brian over the internet years ago and in person the first time at a CREIA membership meeting in San Diego in 1998. For those of you who don't know, Brian was the pioneer leading the HI industry into the wonders of the internet.

    I have been in this industry for over 40 years. Way before there were organizations, and any of those still around know what I feel about HI organizations. Some of them. I do favor CREIA. But I don't live in California.

    As for time in Service HI organizations have only been around for a little over 30 years. I'm setting her looking at a 25 year anniversary plaque from CREIA in 2001. If I remember right, CREIA was a fore runner to ANSHI. And then you have the alphabet soup of all of the other HI organizations, none of which have an office in DC. Architects, Engineers and Constructors have been here from the beginning of time. All of these industries have professional organizaitons with national headquarters in DC. Enough said.

    My reasons for asking the questions, the answers of which I already know are that when I'm deposed by the opposing council I'm not stating what I think or know, but what a selection of HI's feel in the industry. This is a public forum for HI's. The replies are a Consensus of opinions from HI's. Just remember what you write because this is a public forum and just about anyone can join and view what you have written. So you can either confirm that you are a professional as some of you did here, or leave some wondering where the professionalism is?

    If you would like to take the time to read my CV I have attached it. For those who offered there services for a fee, at my age the only thing I would need is someone to carry my ladder. If you feel qualified and can keep up please send me your Resume. Again thanks to those who answered the questions in an honest straight forward way. It was appreciated.
    Hi Richard,

    Glad you were able to gleam what you needed from the post. FYI, as a litigation consultant I advise my attorney clients to scour the discussion boards for bits of information, just like you have left. In other words, never post anyting on a discussion board that you would not like others to discover.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  11. #11
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
    Ted Menelly Guest

    Default Re: Definition of a Home Inspector

    What is said on a discussion board means nothing. I love how everyone is always thinking in that direction.

    What is discussed here on this board or any other similar site means nothing. I could give view point after view point and ask questions and ask for opinions all day long. It means nothing as to your actual real life actions and knowledge. This is a place to throw view points out (maybe not even yours), ask for advise (as the OP did) but really did not nead it because "he already knows the answer to everything he asked" (believes he does anyway)

    Because one is accepted into a court of law as an expert witness does that automatically infer that they are an expert. Well he has proved resourcefull in the past and he belongs to these associations and he has done fema work and he does have tose couple of certs. Gees, he must be an expert.

    The 2 Jerrys and Scott always claim to do the litigation and expert witness thing. Does the world know how many people disagree with what they say at particular times. But stating that they can do expert witness and litigation work.


    Hmmmmmmmmm

    I guess it all depends on th particular lawyer or court as to accept won as an expert. Then pretty much in general, once they are used as an expert witness then other lawyers and courts more readily accept that they are an expert witness.

    Being a professional home inspector is one thing. Putting one self forth as THE expert is quite another. I guess it all depends on expert witness to what. Please don't say ASHI or TREC standards. You read them and try to live by them but if you ask 100 inspectors what they think of or what they feel a TREC inspection or standard is you will get a variety of opinions. Who is right. If you are asking for onr to be an expert witness as the general viewpoint of a particular standard then I guess you you round out my overall opinion or any others overall opinion then I guess we can all ba an expert in the overall beacause we are all , in the end, going to have the same general opinion.

    If you are asking one to be an expert witness in all buildings systems and components then I guess you better get yourself an expert in those particular systems or components as in one that only deals with the particular system or components on an everyday basis. A home inspector is not the BEST expert witness in ALL those components and or systems.

    Gees, another inspection on hold. This is getting really old and leaving me with to much time on my hands as to offer opinions on this board daily.


  12. #12
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
    Ted Menelly Guest

    Default Re: Definition of a Home Inspector

    Mr Aaron

    You continuously shock and then amaze me. It is difficult to find someone in the south that is so brazen and direct with their words.

    Whether I agree or disagree I have to tell you you constantly gain my respect. What ever that is worth to you it should be worth a lot.

    I do not pass out respect lightly and freely to all.

    In saying that sometimes I wish I could hold down my opinion a bit but then that would be throwing away my beliefs and up bringing.

    If you cannot be direct then don't be anyway at all.


  13. #13
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: Definition of a Home Inspector

    If you cannot be direct then don't be anyway at all.
    Ted: Agreed, in spades.


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