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  1. #1
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    Default Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Elite MGA Home Inspector E&O Insurance
    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
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  2. #2
    Bob White's Avatar
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    I've heard nothing in the local grapevine....

    It doesn't seem to be drawing a lot of interest pro or con around these parts.


  3. #3
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Be careful guys, if GA legislature is anything like TX, you could be in for a fast ride where you don't want to go. Watch "em!

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    In the proposed bill for licensing of home inspectors in GA, paragraph 43-39B-5 (b) says (in part):

    (b) A person shall be eligible for licensure as a home inspector if he or she:

    (1) ....
    (2) ....
    (3) ....
    (4) ....
    (5) Prior to or within one year of the effective date of this chapter, has passed a valid, reliable examination designed to test competence in home inspection practice and developed pursuant to accepted psychometric standards promulgated by the American Educational Research Association or similar organization acceptable to the board.
    I assume that the above refers to the NHIE. Is there another exam that meets the above proposed requirement? Please don't bother to list the ones that don't meet the standard.

    What are the similar organizations to the one above?


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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob White View Post
    In the proposed bill for licensing of home inspectors in GA, paragraph 43-39B-5 (b) says (in part):



    I assume that the above refers to the NHIE. Is there another exam that meets the above proposed requirement? Please don't bother to list the ones that don't meet the standard.

    What are the similar organizations to the one above?
    The testing requirement is poorly worded, but it does leave it up to the board to choose what will be acceptable.

    Yes, the NHIE meets those requirements. It is also the only non-association bias exam for home inspectors. I think that NAHI has been trying to get their exam validated as well, so they might be able to meet the requirements in the future. But for now it would be the NHIE.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post

    The testing requirement is poorly worded,.....

    ....the NHIE meets those requirements.

    It is also the only non-association bias exam for home inspectors.

    I think that NAHI has been trying to get their exam validated as well, so they might be able to meet the requirements in the future. But for now it would be the NHIE.
    The NHIE (ASHI Exam) meets the Poorly worded requirements of a Non-Associational biased exam.

    Interesting observation Scott.

    I agree with you...


  7. #7
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph P. Hagarty View Post
    The NHIE (ASHI Exam) meets the Poorly worded requirements of a Non-Associational biased exam.

    Interesting observation Scott.

    I agree with you...
    The NHIE is not only used by ASHI as one of their membership exams. AII uses it for their exam, NAHI allows it, 2 municipalities and 19 States require it for their licensing exam.

    If GA adopts HI licensing, that will mean that all of the Southern states, except for Florida will have home inspector licensing (VA is in the left field of licensing). I would bet that Governor Crist will sign the bill into law for Florida.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

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    Talking Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    They should all be required to have a license and have to carry E&O insurance.

    Seems only fair.

    Why should one state be any different from another, right?


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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Hurst View Post
    They should all be required to have a license and have to carry E&O insurance.

    Seems only fair.

    Why should one state be any different from another, right?
    Yep, kind of like state required Car Insurance. Some have it and some don't.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  10. #10
    Harvey Hempelstern's Avatar
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Licensing solves nothing.


  11. #11
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Why does Bushart post here using the name Hemplestern and repeating his inane "licensing solves nothing" mantra?

    It's just sad.

    RT



    Quote Originally Posted by Harvey Hempelstern View Post
    Licensing solves nothing.



  12. #12
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Does licensing solve anything?


  13. #13
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Burkeson View Post
    Does licensing solve anything?

    Well, that would depend on how the law is written. A poorly written law(and we have a few stinkers) does nothing for anyone. A law that is written well, establishes a benchmark or an entry requirement for those who want to work in the profession. A good law offers a level of protection to the consumer and the home inspector; you do not have this in an unregulated environment.

    If you are offering a service, you should be accountable for your actions if you screw-up. Conversely you should also be afforded a level of protection if you are properly performing to a set of required guidelines and or standards.

    What is wrong with this?

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
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  14. #14
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    Well, that would depend on how the law is written. A poorly written law(and we have a few stinkers) does nothing for anyone. A law that is written well, establishes a benchmark or an entry requirement for those who want to work in the profession. A good law offers a level of protection to the consumer and the home inspector; you do not have this in an unregulated environment.

    If you are offering a service, you should be accountable for your actions if you screw-up. Conversely you should also be afforded a level of protection if you are properly performing to a set of required guidelines and or standards.

    What is wrong with this?
    Blah,blah,blah. I've heard it all before, nothing to back it up but wishful thinking on your part, please get some new material would you? Answer me this how is ASHI going to fix the screw-up in New York?

    Licensing is about as useful as tits on a bull and you know it.


  15. #15
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Why does Burkeson ask a question and then berate the one person who was gracious enough to answer it?

    Patterson should have known that anyone who uses the terms 'socialism' and 'porridge' in discussions about home inspection isn't likely to understand a cogent argument no matter how many times he sees it.

    It's clear to me that the last thing members of an organization that manufactures its own credentials want is for the state to interfere with their little scam. That might limit the number of recruits for their 'boot camps'.

    RT



    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Burkeson View Post
    Does licensing solve anything?

    Blah,blah,blah. I've heard it all before, nothing to back it up but wishful thinking on your part, please get some new material would you? Answer me this how is ASHI going to fix the screw-up in New York?

    Licensing is about as useful as tits on a bull and you know it.



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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Burkeson View Post
    Blah,blah,blah. I've heard it all before, nothing to back it up but wishful thinking on your part, please get some new material would you? Answer me this how is ASHI going to fix the screw-up in New York?

    Licensing is about as useful as tits on a bull and you know it.
    Hi Joe,

    Sounds like a little of the Napoleon syndrome!

    I have nothing to gain or loose as states become licensed, but apparently you do.

    As for what ASHI is going to do with the New York "Screwup" as you say. ASHI national does not get involved, with the individual states it is up to the folks in that state to take care of their own issues.

    IMO, part of the problem in NY is that the inspectors let the PE's run over them. As with most licensing efforts, you will find that a small group of folks do the work while the majority sit back and watch. Come to think of it, that holds true with just about everything.

    And it is "Teats on a Bull"!

    Last edited by Scott Patterson; 05-27-2007 at 04:34 PM. Reason: Change of heart!
    Scott Patterson, ACI
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  17. #17
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Thomas View Post
    It's clear to me that the last thing members of an organization that manufactures its own credentials want is for the state to interfere with their little scam. That might limit the number of recruits for their 'boot camps'.

    RT

    I just hope that Scott jumps in here to defend ASHI from your rude comment, after all I am not just an ASHI member but I also sit on the board of my local chapter. In regards to boots... I wouldn't even let you shine mine.


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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    I can only guess that some chapters are in such dire need for volunteers they will accept anyone to fill a position.


  19. #19
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Feldmann View Post
    I can only guess that some chapters are in such dire need for volunteers they will accept anyone to fill a position.

    To me it looks like the whole association is a bit dire these days, creating quite a mess for the profession at large and sticking their nose into places where it doesn't belong.


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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Thomas View Post
    Why does Burkeson ask a question and then berate the one person who was gracious enough to answer it?

    Patterson should have known that anyone who uses the terms 'socialism' and 'porridge' in discussions about home inspection isn't likely to understand a cogent argument no matter how many times he sees it.

    It's clear to me that the last thing members of an organization that manufactures its own credentials want is for the state to interfere with their little scam. That might limit the number of recruits for their 'boot camps'.

    RT
    A blog where everyone agreed would be deservedly short lived. Grant it, most of the time Joe sounds like he graduated Summa cum laude from the Don Rickles school of charm. And most of the time it is clear that his motives for hating licensing are motivated by self serving reasons. That is not the same thing as his arguments having no merit and not worth consideration instead of automatic rejection.

    It has been to the detriment of American society that anyone who opposes government regulation is quickly labeled a whiner and a nut case.

    As a proponent of responsible licensing, those that accept it as it is; without question, deserve the consequences they may suffer. The weakness in Scott's argument is in his last sentence.

    "Conversely you should also be afforded a level of protection if you are properly performing to a set of required guidelines and or standards."

    "Should" is the operative word. In Texas, they have sought the right to suspend your license before you have been found guilty of anything. Yet I have seen no request for a means of compensating the Inspector should he be absolved. I think that means that the outcome is predetermined or at least presumed.

    Consumers should be protected and fair and impartial licensing is a good way to do it. The question is, How do we get fair and impartial licensing authorities? What measures are in effect to keep consumers from making outrageous claims against Inspectors? Remember, it does not have to be your Client.

    The only reason some people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
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  21. #21
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    I really don't mean to be critical, but this last post of yours is just gibberish.

    Why would you post a message quoting me, and then state that you hope Scott addresses it? It seems that you would have had that discussion with Scott and just left me out of it until you and he had reached some kind of agreement.

    And why did you reference ASHI in response to my comment? I didn't mention ASHI, or any other organization. I mean, it's just strange. You whine for years about ASHI involving itself in state licensing initiatives, and then when I opinie about the reasons an organization would RESIST licensing, the only organization you can think of is ASHI. That's just nonsense. What's more, everyone reading this knows it's nonsense.

    And, after attempting to smear ASHI with your ridiculous statement: "I just hope that Scott jumps in here to defend ASHI from your rude comment", why would you then boast about being a member of that organization, and why would you further boast about being a board member? I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not impressed to learn that you are a board member of an organization you despise. That seems to me to be a miserable existence.

    Finally, why would you assume that I would want to shine your boots? Did you think I would find such a comment from such an individual to be insulting? When you wrote that comment, did you imagine that people would think less of me, or less of you?

    I really didn't intend to get into a contentious discussion here. I just wanted to know why Bushart was posting under the name of Hemplestern.

    RT




    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Burkeson View Post
    I just hope that Scott jumps in here to defend ASHI from your rude comment, after all I am not just an ASHI member but I also sit on the board of my local chapter. In regards to boots... I wouldn't even let you shine mine.



  22. #22
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Apparently, this message board has a feature called "Private Messages". I was surprised to see that someone had sent a private message to me, given I have been here for only a very short time.

    I copied the message here, because I wanted everyone to benefit from Burkeson's insights, if not from his spelling and proofreading skills.

    RT

    You said... It's clear to me that the last thing members of an organization that manufactures its own credentials want is for the state to interfere with their little scam. That might limit the number of recruits for their 'boot camps'.


    Ate you talking about ASHI?
    __________________
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  23. #23
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Rob,

    You will learn to ignore Joe's comments.

    Basically he is against anything and everything that is not designed to help Joe out.

    He's even against things designed to help him out if those things also help other out.

    I tried to get to know Joe at some of the FABI meetings he came to, I even tried to help him in his fight with/against ASHI, but Joe would have no help if one does not think exactly like Joe thinks.

    So I have learned to let him rant, occasionally I will prod him on, he is so much fun to watch rant on, especially about licensing ...

    Oh, and guns, and ...

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  24. #24
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Thomas View Post
    I really don't mean to be critical, but this last post of yours is just gibberish.

    Why would you post a message quoting me, and then state that you hope Scott addresses it? It seems that you would have had that discussion with Scott and just left me out of it until you and he had reached some kind of agreement.

    And why did you reference ASHI in response to my comment? I didn't mention ASHI, or any other organization. I mean, it's just strange. You whine for years about ASHI involving itself in state licensing initiatives, and then when I opinie about the reasons an organization would RESIST licensing, the only organization you can think of is ASHI. That's just nonsense. What's more, everyone reading this knows it's nonsense.

    And, after attempting to smear ASHI with your ridiculous statement: "I just hope that Scott jumps in here to defend ASHI from your rude comment", why would you then boast about being a member of that organization, and why would you further boast about being a board member? I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not impressed to learn that you are a board member of an organization you despise. That seems to me to be a miserable existence.

    Finally, why would you assume that I would want to shine your boots? Did you think I would find such a comment from such an individual to be insulting? When you wrote that comment, did you imagine that people would think less of me, or less of you?

    I really didn't intend to get into a contentious discussion here. I just wanted to know why Bushart was posting under the name of Hemplestern.

    RT

    What kind of troll are you?


  25. #25
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    A better question would be: Why do you continue sending me private messages? What force on earth could convince you that I am interested in anything you could write?

    I deleted the last unsolicited message you sent without reading it. If you are too ashamed of your literary efforts to post them here in an open forum, maybe you should keep them to yourself.

    I apologize for having so little regard for your opinions and observations.

    RT


    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Burkeson View Post
    What kind of troll are you?



  26. #26
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Thomas View Post
    I apologize for having so little regard for your opinions and observations.

    RT
    No apology necessary, it is a free country. So, let me guess, your belief in licensing has been shaken and now you are going to show all of us who oppose the government socialization of our profession a thing or two, right?

    Please, share your pain, since licensing are there now more inspectors in your market performing inspections at 1/3 of your price or is it the burden of useless CEU's which do nothing but line the pockets of the training institutes that have you out of spirits? Or maybe it is the disgust over the thousands of dollars you pissed away on membership to an association who has lost touch with their members and no longer control the standards of practice for the profession?

    Come on Rob tell us how licensing protects the public promotes the profession and creates profits to those stooges who are willing to exchange freedom for conformity. Life is a difficult game. You can win it only by retaining your birthright to be a person, good luck with yours.


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    Wink Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    [QUOTE=Jerry Peck;7051]Rob,

    You will learn to ignore Joe's comments.

    Basically he is against anything and everything that is not designed to help Joe out.

    He's even against things designed to help him out if those things also help other out.



    Joe has been an interesting guy to follow..
    For years he was one of the most anti ASHI guys around, [ untill Bushart showed up]
    It will be interesting to see what it will take to change his position on Licensing.

    Last edited by Dan Harris; 05-28-2007 at 12:07 PM.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Burkeson View Post
    No apology necessary, it is a free country. So, let me guess, your belief in licensing has been shaken and now you are going to show all of us who oppose the government socialization of our profession a thing or two, right?

    Rob, forgive me for interjecting. I recognize that you are capable of addressing Joe, or any of the rest of us who at some point may spit in your Cheerios. As one of the "stooges" I felt I had earned the right to comment.

    Joe, I have defended your right to dissent on several occasions. I can't defend your right to ignorance, because you have no rights there. Usually, when someone expresses the level of disdain that you do for formal education and structure, it's an indication that they possess little of either.

    Get some education so that you understand the basic concepts of governing. NOTHING you have ever ranted about has a damned thing to do with socialism. Licensing is not inherently Socialistic any more than ins is inherently unbridled Capitalism. The abuses of either throws them in and out of many social constructs.


    Please, share your pain, since licensing are there now more inspectors in your market performing inspections at 1/3 of your price or is it the burden of useless CEU's which do nothing but line the pockets of the training institutes that have you out of spirits?

    Please explain under what scenario that a restrictive construct like licensing actually increases the numbers of any trade or profession?

    Regarding CEUs, you have to understand, Joe that you are the only human being who can't learn something because you already have the sum total of all knowledge. The rest of us might occasionally learn something, therefore not all CEUs are useless.

    Or maybe it is the disgust over the thousands of dollars you pissed away on membership to an association who has lost touch with their members and no longer control the standards of practice for the profession?

    I assume you refer to ASHI. News Flash, as much as they may sometimes want you to believe it, they never controlled the SOP, at least not in Texas.

    Come on Rob tell us how licensing protects the public promotes the profession and creates profits to those stooges who are willing to exchange freedom for conformity. Life is a difficult game. You can win it only by retaining your birthright to be a person, good luck with yours.
    Licensing does protect the public when it removes the licences of those who abuse the public trust. It does a disservice to the public when it becomes a profit center for a State's general fund and when the licensing authority hasn't the courage to stand up to politicians who would influence it for their own personal gain. It provides a disservice to the public and the licensee when it fails to provide real protections for both.

    How does licensing create profits for us "stooges who would exchange freedom for conformity?" It doesn't, because licensing or the lack of licensing can't create profits. Factors like demand, supply, marketing skills, product quality, frivolous lawsuits, unfair taxation, stupid decisions, education levels, personality, working habits, etc. all can create profits. There are more inspectors because there is a perceived need for them and a perception that it a trade that some feel will earn them a better living than they make at whatever they are currently doing. There are more doing inspections at 1/3 of someone else's price because 1. there are more inspectors and 2. because the majority of self employed persons are not very good businessmen, at least not in the beginning. They erroneously think they can make up their losses with volume.

    To equate freedom with non conformity is a child's argument. Nonconformity may be a privilege of freedom, but it by no means defines freedom. As you obviously don't (won't) understand the differences between socialism, capitalism. communism, and autocracy, neither do you choose to recognize the critical differences between freedom and anarchy.

    Last edited by Thom Walker; 05-28-2007 at 01:09 PM. Reason: clarification
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  29. #29
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Thom,

    I am not here to provide you with a platform whereby you can spout your pro-licensing propaganda or to provide you with talking-points. My agenda is simply to express the other side as succinctly and often as possible.

    Just so that we understand one another, I'll not be answering your questions in regards to home inspector licensing, nor do I care what opinion you and yours might have of me. As far as my education and ability to freely think goes, my guess is that it will be able to keep up any deep thoughts you might come up with.

    Joe.

    Last edited by Deleted Account; 05-28-2007 at 01:28 PM.

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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Burkeson View Post
    ... ability to freely think ...
    Joe, you have every right to freely think, but some day, you should try to 'think freely'.

    Without all that baggage you are carrying around clogging up what you are thinking.

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  31. #31
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    You can attack the messenger all you want, but it does not change the facts that Mr. Burkeson has presented. No matter how hard you might wish it to be different, licensing has solved nothing.

    For the proponent who supported it in order to limit his competition...he found brand new schools pumping out hundreds more.

    For the proponent who supported it to "enhance the profession"...he found minimal standards becoming the definition of "qualified and competent" inspectors.

    For the proponent who (chuckle) sought to "protect the consumer"...he still finds evening news reports in May and November that reveal shoddy home inspections.

    Not one single proponent of licensing - anywhere at any time - has provided documented evidence that a problem that existed prior to a HI licensing law was eliminated by enacting that law.

    Licensing solves nothing...and no one can prove otherwise.


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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    When I moved to Knoxville in 1994 there were ten home inspectors in my area, and two other ASHI members.

    Prior to licensing in July 2006, there were about 50 inspectors and close to 20 ASHI members.


    When licensing took affect, a few established inspectors quit the business (1 moved out of state). A bunch of new guys (and girls) started up. As of a week ago, I counted 71 licensed inspectors in my area (an a couple unlicensed ones). ASHI picked up a few new members along the way too.

    There are two things licensing did for the profession here. It made all the new guys take the NHIE, and required ALL inspectors to have E&O insurance.

    While many may argue that the NHIE is very easy (too easy?), it's probably the best exam out there. Passing it at least proves that the inspector has some basic inspection knowledge. It is way better than what we had before, which was grab a flashlight, print some cards, and get going.

    While the issue of insurance has been battered around here many times before, there is one positive aspect of requiring it. It places a financial commitment on the inspector. Regardless of how we as inspectors feel about it, I think it does give the average Joe Public a feeling of comfort.

    Licensing has not made much of an impact on my business. The fee for my license is minimal, and I always carried insurance anyway. The increased number of inspectors has maybe made an impact, but not much.

    I think it will be interesting to see what happens to the numbers when we have to send in our insurance renewals. I'm going to guess there will be a bunch of inspectors drop out when they have to shell out another $4000 for insurance this year, and they try to balance it out with how much business they got this past year.

    Licensing did not change the way I did inspections, or conducted myself in any way, except I now have a signature page in my report, and include a copy of my license.

    JF


  33. #33
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Feldmann View Post
    I think it will be interesting to see what happens to the numbers when we have to send in our insurance renewals. I'm going to guess there will be a bunch of inspectors drop out when they have to shell out another $4000 for insurance this year, and they try to balance it out with how much business they got this past year.

    I always thought you were a two-faced charlatan, thanks for proving me right. Your confession that you expect licensing and all that goes with it will reduce your competition warms my heart and drives home the point that licensing solves nothing. I suggest that you work on improving your skill set instead of attempting to hide behind bad licensing laws to keep you in business.

    Legislation has a way of disappointing its staunches supporters whereas improving one's skills is like chopping wood, it warms you twice.

    Last edited by Deleted Account; 05-29-2007 at 07:44 AM.

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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Burkeson View Post
    I always thought you were a two-faced charlatan, thanks for proving me right. Your confession that you expect licensing and all that goes with it will reduce your competition warms my heart and drives home the point that licensing solves nothing. I suggest that you work on improving your skill set instead of attempting to hide behind bad licensing laws to keep you in business.

    Legislation has a way of disappointing its staunches supporters whereas improving one's skills is like chopping wood, it warms you twice.
    Blah,blah,blah. I've heard it all before, nothing to back it up but wishful thinking on your part, please get some new material would you?

    Those that fear licensing have the most to loose!


    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    Blah,blah,blah. I've heard it all before, nothing to back it up but wishful thinking on your part, please get some new material would you?

    Those that fear licensing have the most to loose!

    First of all... Do I really look or act afraid to you? Get a grip.


  36. #36
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Burkeson View Post
    First of all... Do I really look or act afraid to you? Get a grip.
    It would appear so!

    Those that fear licensing have the most too loose!

    Last edited by Scott Patterson; 05-29-2007 at 03:45 PM.
    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
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  37. #37
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    It would appear so!

    Those that fear licensing have the most to loose!

    Dream on oh bloviated one there is nothing to fear but fear itself.

    When will you guys learn that licensing solves nothing!


  38. #38
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Burkeson View Post
    Dream on oh bloviated one there is nothing to fear but fear itself.

    When will you guys learn that licensing solves nothing!
    Oh, Yes it does. It would make you a really pissed off person!

    Those that fear licensing have the most too loose!

    Last edited by Scott Patterson; 05-29-2007 at 03:43 PM. Reason: Thom Walker ;)
    Scott Patterson, ACI
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  39. #39
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Scott,

    You need either one more "o* in "to" or one less "o" in "lose." In the case of what you meant, either would work.

    The only reason some people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
    - Paul Fix

  40. #40
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Quote Originally Posted by Harvey Hempelstern View Post
    that a problem that existed prior to a HI licensing law was eliminated by enacting that law.
    Let me get this straight, then, ...

    *YOU* have documented evidence which shows there are problems existing in home inspections?

    *YOU* have no solution for those document problems other than to continue the status quo.

    *YOU* have no reason to believe the status quo of home inspection problems will change ...

    ... "with or without" licensing, yet *YOU* are unwilling to try something which "might" be able to alter the status quo and solve a few problems?

    What does that make *YOU*? One of the participants of those home inspection problems who are afraid *YOUR WAY* would be altered for some potential benefit?

    I know, I know, ...

    YOU will respond with something about 'licensing does not solve problems' while ignoring the fact that NOT HAVING licensing has been proven to 'not solve problems' too.

    Please provide your answer, I can't wait to see it.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  41. #41
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    YOU will respond with something about 'licensing does not solve problems' while ignoring the fact that NOT HAVING licensing has been proven to 'not solve problems' too.

    I believe what we have here is a perfect example of... "First do no harm" clause as outlined by Hippocrates around 450 BC in a document we now call the Hippocratic Oath.

    At this time there is no creditable evidence that licensing solves anything, what we do know is that in general when a state adopts licensing there is in a very short time more inspectors in that state because a path to inspector status was provided by the state and beyond that those newly licensed inspectors have a skill set far below the average skill set of the inspector pool prior to licensing.

    Furthermore, we are also very aware that in 90% of the cases the standards adopted by the state are far below the currently accepted professional standards. This has the effect of actually lowering the "standard of care" the public now receives under licensing.

    All in all the legislators would be wise to study Hippocrates prior to making any hasty decisions in regards to home inspector licensing.

    Jerry, I would like to thank you for providing a platform for the discussion of home inspector licensing and its failures to date.


    Fearlessly,

    Joe Burkeson


  42. #42
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Let me get this straight, then, ...

    *YOU* are unwilling to try something which "might" be able to alter the status quo and solve a few problems?
    Mr. Peck,

    *YOUR* solution of licensing has already been tried --- and has subsequently failed --- in over 18 states, to date. What makes you think the 19th state will be any different?

    Indeed, I am unwilling to marry a woman with 18 ex-husbands. I hope your Governor is, too.


  43. #43
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Burkeson View Post
    I believe what we have here is a perfect example of... "First do no harm" clause as outlined by Hippocrates around 450 BC in a document we now call the Hippocratic Oath.
    However, for those civilizations which have progressed beyond 450 BC, once 'First, do no harm" has failed because if inaction, the alternative is action, doing as little harm as possible while trying to control the blight.

    Thus, throughout the centuries, the survival of the masses many times leads to pain for a few. Not referring to human sacrifices, but to the fact that to protect many, a few may, regrettably, be hurt.

    Civilization as we know it, as you know it, and as you enjoy it, is not possible without some being hurt, and other feeling hurt, whether they are hurt or not.

    To save the patient, a leg is amputated ... first, do no harm ... then save the patient ...

    Refusing to amputate a leg because you want to do no harm could be negligence and malpractice.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  44. #44
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Refusing to amputate a leg because you want to do no harm could be negligence and malpractice.
    Amputating YOUR leg because MY nose is running is not a solution, either. Licensing solves nothing.


  45. #45
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Joe,

    Wow, now that is an improvement. We knew that you could do it!

    Mr. Peck,
    *YOUR* solution of licensing has already been tried --- and has subsequently failed --- in over 18 states, to date. What makes you think the 19th state will be any different?

    Indeed, I am unwilling to marry a woman with 18 ex-husbands. I hope your Governor is, too
    Now if we could only get Harvey Bushart to figure it out. Heck he thinks that only 18 states are licensed! I think at last count it was around 33 states with either regulation or licensing (Yes, and about 7 or so are real stinkers).

    Resistance is Futile!

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  46. #46
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Refusing to amputate a leg because you want to do no harm could be negligence and malpractice.

    Let me just say this and leave it at that... A man has gotta know his limitations. The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. -Albert Einstein



    Fearlessly

    Joe Burkeson


  47. #47
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Burkeson View Post
    Let me just say this and leave it at that... A man has gotta know his limitations. The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. -Albert Einstein
    And refusing to amputate ones own head would be one of those limits, but not ones own leg.

    Like that guy caught in that rock a couple of years ago. He had two choices: 1) Die there. 2) Amputate his own arm off.

    The one lacking genius dies there, the other lives on.

    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

    Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get. Forrest Gump

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  48. #48
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    Heck he thinks that only 18 states are licensed! I think at last count it was around 33 states with------------- either regulation ----------------or licensing (Yes, and about 7 or so are real stinkers).

    Resistance is Futile!
    Scott,

    I am surprised that you would endorse the demise of your own association who pushes its only real benefit - that being a provider of "credentials" - as an alternative to licensing. To me, seeing ASHI membership dwindle with each law that is passed is the only positive thing to come from licensing...but that is for another thread.

    There is a difference between registration and licensing. My numbers, as stated, are very close to being accurate...depending upon how one would interpret the laws of a couple of states.

    Illinois already has as many unlicensed inspectors operating as licensed inspectors writing reports and the state has no means or desire to enforce this marketing plan...I mean...law. It's starting to happen in Tennessee, too.

    People are asking themselves why they should carry the burden while others ignore it.

    Not only is resistance not futile...but resistance to laws in place are already gaining momentum to the degree that it is repeal...not licensing...that is truly inevitable.


  49. #49
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Joe,
    I'm not sure what part of my post made you think that I was a " a two-faced charlatan". I was just making an observation, and commenting on something that licensing did for the state.

    Licensing DID require everyone to pass a test AND have insurance. I think that is positive. As I said, it is better than the old way.

    I have been up front and honest with ALL of my posts on this forum. That is a lot more than I can say for some others here.

    I think you should look in the mirror when you call someone "two faced". Not that long ago you were bashing ASHI every chance you got, now you are bashing NACHI with the same venom, and adding your claim to fame of being on the BOD of your local Chapter. I can only wonder what could be wrong with that chapter to not only allow you to be a member, but to want you to serve in a leadership position. It reminds me of a book written by John Kennedy Toole.

    Speaking of charlatans - someone that won't post under their own name. What a joke.
    JF


  50. #50
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Feldmann View Post
    I think you should look in the mirror when you call someone "two faced". Not that long ago you were bashing ASHI every chance you got, now you are bashing NACHI with the same venom, and adding your claim to fame of being on the BOD of your local Chapter. I can only wonder what could be wrong with that chapter to not only allow you to be a member, but to want you to serve in a leadership position.


    I don't allow anyone to dictate how my life is lived and it appears that my style of leadership is apparently attractive to many as I not only sit on a local ASHI board but on the prestigious Leadership Hillsborough board also. Don't look now but I have also been asked to join the National ASHI legislative Committee, I've been told my voice is in demand, something about not being pussy whipped.

    Your behavior which I described as two-faced is predicated on how you preach that HI licensing somehow protects the consumer in one breath then how HI licensing reduces your competition and protects your market in another.

    You call yourself loyal ASHI brother but it appears to me that all you want to do is put people out of work, you should be ashamed of yourself. Tell me what have you done for your community or association lately? I have a laundry list of items with many hours devoted to local ASHI training, ask anyone, then bug off.





    Fearlessly,

    Joe Burkeson.


  51. #51
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    At this time there is no creditable evidence that licensing solves anything, what we do know is that in general when a state adopts licensing there is in a very short time more inspectors in that state because a path to inspector status was provided by the state and beyond that those newly licensed inspectors have a skill set far below the average skill set of the inspector pool prior to licensing.

    I think you mean “credible” evidence. It’s hard to make a convincing argument when you don’t understand the language.

    Furthermore, we are also very aware that in 90% of the cases the standards adopted by the state are far below the currently accepted professional standards. This has the effect of actually lowering the "standard of care" the public now receives under licensing.

    That’s gibberish. The only “currently accepted professional standards” are those in the ASHI SoP, and most states have adopted a standard that deviates very little from it. State licensing doesn’t change the applicable standard to any measurable degree, it changes the level of accountability.

    And, by the way, if the “we” to whom you refer are you and Bushart, then no one will have any confidence in the data you regurgitate or your ability to analyze it.

    RT


  52. #52
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Scott,

    I am surprised that you would endorse the demise of your own association who pushes its only real benefit - that being a provider of "credentials" - as an alternative to licensing. To me, seeing ASHI membership dwindle with each law that is passed is the only positive thing to come from licensing...but that is for another thread.

    Bushart, your analytical powers haven’t improved with your name change. ASHI will continue quite nicely I’m sure, because the best in any business always want to associate with the best. Your little group of pretenders at NACHI will do ok and will always be larger, because most of the room in any pyramid is at the bottom.

    If you knew anything about history, which you obviously don’t, you would know that ASHI resisted licensing because it invariably lowered the bar to a point that only the newest non-proctored, online test-taker couldn’t reach it. ASHI offered model legislation that mirrored its own requirements, so that licensing would have real value for consumers. The people who resist the ASHI model are you and your ilk who can’t hope to meet the requirements.

    I must say I agree with your decision. If I had a tag line as stupid as “licensing solves nothing”, I’d change my name too.

    RT


  53. #53
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    I don't allow anyone to dictate how my life is lived and it appears that my style of leadership is apparently attractive to many as I not only sit on a local ASHI board but on the prestigious Leadership Hillsborough board also.

    How prestigious can it be when it’s a “volunteer” board? What a joke. You involve yourself in local activities to network, hoping you might squeeze one or two inspections out of the people who don’t know you too well. Trolling for business is hardly a community service.

    RT

    From the website: Leadership Hillsborough is a non-profit organization governed by a volunteer Board of Directors.

    It was founded in 1989 to promote harmonious relations and enhance communication by unifying all sectors of Hillsborough County through encouraging interaction among business, professional and community-oriented individuals.


  54. #54
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Burkeson View Post
    Blow me!
    Wow!

    Coming from someone who usually tags their spiels with "Fearlessly".

    Seems like someone just put the fear of something in you.

    All I can say is ... Wow! A new low ... even for Joe B.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  55. #55
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    I can't. I'm too busy laughing at you.

    Maybe you could volunteer for the Supreme Court. That would really look good on your resume.

    RT


    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Burkeson View Post
    Blow me!



  56. #56
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    This thread does seem to have degenerated into a pissing match and it may be time for the thread to 'disappear' and allow everyone to cool their heels a bit.

    What do y'all think?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  57. #57
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    All I can say is Rob T... where have you been, boy. You been gone much too long.

    This stuff is like watching people with Tourette Syndrome F@(+ ... it ain't fun to watch but is entertaining as hell!!

    Heck... this thread hasn't disentigrated enough yet.

    Last edited by Richard Rushing; 05-29-2007 at 11:41 PM.

  58. #58
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Joe,
    You need to read my post again. I was making observations (about insurance). First of all, I don't think there is anyone in business that wouldn't mind having fewer businesses in competition. That said, I would never do anyting to try to put someone OUT of business. For you to suggest so shows just how much you don't know me at all.

    As far as what I have done for my association and community? Get real! I think you would have to work overtime to get even close to my involvement with ASHI.
    Just off the top:
    president Mid South Chapter
    COR rep for 4 years
    founding president east Tennessee Chapter
    3 years ASHI director
    vice president East TN ASHI - 2 terms
    Cor rep for 2 years
    Served on national committees 1994 - 2004 every year
    report verifier for 4 years
    instructor for paid verifiers
    education chair for East TN ASHI
    Served on various projects for EBPHI
    Officer nominating committee
    mentoring program @ East TN ASHI
    I'm sure there's more...

    As far as community..
    Various church committees - youth, etc.
    Habitat
    Fight for Diabetes
    Teach non credit class at UT
    Teach Realtor continuing ed class
    Local community business association

    again, just a few off the top

    I take many many guys on ride alongs, or mentor them over the phone or e-mail, and not just ASHI guys. Have been doing this for a decade.

    There, I showed you mine.
    JF

    ESAFT


  59. #59
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Richard,
    As the brother of a guy with polio, I hope you'll reconsider before ever saying something that ignorant again. It is far beneath who I imagine you strive to be.

    I promise you, there is nothing entertaining about it.

    The only reason some people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
    - Paul Fix

  60. #60
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Thanks.

    RT


    [quote=Richard Rushing;7295]All I can say is Rob T... where have you been, boy. You been gone much too long.


  61. #61
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    What do y'all think?
    I think that, since you have obviously lost your argument, you now would prefer that this thread disappear so as to do with censorship what you could not accomplish in debate. Attempts made by others to distract the conversation from the facts relating to the topic and turn this discussion into personal attacks should simply be ignored.

    Thanks for asking.

    Last edited by Harvey Hempelstern; 05-30-2007 at 03:34 AM. Reason: Spelling

  62. #62
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Quote Originally Posted by Harvey Hempelstern View Post
    I think that, since you have obviously lost your argument, you now would prefer that this thread disappear so as to do with censorship what you could not accomplish in debate. Attempts made by others to distract the conversation from the facts relating to the topic and turn this discussion into personal attacks should simply be ignored.

    Thanks for asking.
    I tried to debate by giving my position and by answering Joe's accusations/assumptions. I asked one question.

    Please explain under what scenario that a restrictive construct like licensing actually increases the numbers of any trade or profession?

    The answer I got was:

    "I am not here to provide you with a platform whereby you can spout your pro-licensing propaganda or to provide you with talking-points. My agenda is simply to express the other side as succinctly and often as possible.

    Just so that we understand one another, I'll not be answering your questions in regards to home inspector licensing, nor do I care what opinion you and yours might have of me. As far as my education and ability to freely think goes, my guess is that it will be able to keep up any deep thoughts you might come up with. "


    So much for debate. A debate involves expressing your reasons for you opinions followed by an EXCHANGE of ideas based on an answerable question. It's not digging a trench and hurling your opinions at the other side.

    The only reason some people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
    - Paul Fix

  63. #63
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Thom, what you don't seem to realize is that Burkeson and Bushart (who is so ashamed of himself that he now uses the name Hemplestern) have no facts on which to base their assertions. They are simply NACHI shills.

    And pretty sorry ones at that.

    RT


    Quote Originally Posted by Thom Walker View Post
    I tried to debate by giving my position and by answering Joe's accusations/assumptions. I asked one question.

    Please explain under what scenario that a restrictive construct like licensing actually increases the numbers of any trade or profession?

    The answer I got was:

    "I am not here to provide you with a platform whereby you can spout your pro-licensing propaganda or to provide you with talking-points. My agenda is simply to express the other side as succinctly and often as possible.

    Just so that we understand one another, I'll not be answering your questions in regards to home inspector licensing, nor do I care what opinion you and yours might have of me. As far as my education and ability to freely think goes, my guess is that it will be able to keep up any deep thoughts you might come up with. "

    So much for debate. A debate involves expressing your reasons for you opinions followed by an EXCHANGE of ideas based on an answerable question. It's not digging a trench and hurling your opinions at the other side.



  64. #64
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Quote Originally Posted by Harvey Hempelstern View Post
    I think that, since you have obviously lost your argument, you now would prefer that this thread disappear so as to do with censorship what you could not accomplish in debate.
    Harvey, Jim, Billy Bob, Jim Bob, Bobby Joe, whoever you are,

    No, I have not lost my argument, I was offering a way for this to go away for Joe after his grade school remark.

    As for "censorship", that is done *without asking*, I asked.

    If the majority do not want to relent and give old Joe B. a reprieve, and to get this back to cooler heads, there is no "censorship", and, if they do, there STILL IS no "censorship" - it's called 'democratic action', but those from some association(s) do not know what 'democratic action' is, only 'dictatorship' rules to follow.

    You can be your own guide through the forest, but here's a hint for you finding your way out: Once half way in, you might as well keep going, it's just as long to go back the way you went in.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  65. #65
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    Default Re: Georgia home inspector license in the works

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Thomas View Post
    Thom, what you don't seem to realize is that Burkeson and Bushart (who is so ashamed of himself that he now uses the name Hemplestern) have no facts on which to base their assertions. They are simply NACHI shills.

    And pretty sorry ones at that.

    RT
    I would prefer to be known as an ASHI shill if you don't mind.

    I say keep the BS coming, this thread shows the weakness of the licensing Nazis in all their glory, the best they could do is attack the messenger. This thread and the attacks I have received here changes nothing. Licensing is still the worst way to attempt to control your competition or your market share and in the end we will begin to see these bad laws repealed.

    Fearlessly,

    Joe Burkeson

    Last edited by Deleted Account; 05-30-2007 at 05:58 AM.

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