Thread: refund fee

i have a customer who wants a refund, can someone get me a wavier form or generic verbage to have in place .. thanks

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• Inspection Refund fee

Originally Posted by mike huntzinger

i have a customer who wants a refund, can someone get me a wavier form or generic verbage to have in place .. thanks

First question is why?

Then the waiver would simply state something to the effect of:

I, (client's name), agree to release (your inspection company name and YOUR name) from ANY and ALL liability, and to hold (your company name and YOUR name) harmless, from ANY and ALL matters arising from, resulting from, and regarding, the inspection at (address and date) for (client's name).

GENERAL RELEASE

TO ALL TO WHOM THESE PRESENTS SHALL COME OR MAY CONCERN, KNOW THAT your client , as the RELEASOR, for good and valuable consideration received from abc inspections, as the RELEASEE, the receipt and adequacy of which is hereby acknowledged, each hereby releases and discharges the RELEASEE, each of the RELEASEE’S subsidiaries and their respective principals, affiliates, related entities, shareholders, officers, directors, agents, employees and their respective heirs, executors, administrators, successors and assigns from all actions, causes of action, suits, debts, dues, sums of money, accounts, reckonings, bonds, bills, specialties, covenants, controversies, agreements, promises, variances, trespasses, damages, judgments, extents, executions, claims, and demands whatsoever, in law, admiralty or equity, which against the RELEASEE, the RELEASOR and the RELEASOR’S heirs, executors, administrators, successors and assigns ever had, now have or hereafter can, shall or may, have for, upon or by reason of any matter, cause or thing whatsoever from the beginning of the world to the day of the date of this RELEASE solely in connection with the home inspection services performed by abc inspections arising out of that certain home inspection dated date of inspection.
Whenever the text hereof requires, the use of singular number shall include the appropriate plural number as the text of the within instrument may require.
This RELEASE may not be changed orally.
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, the RELEASOR has executed this RELEASE on the ______day of ________________________, 2003.

(For a Corporation)
___________________________ By: ______________________________________
Attest: Name:
Title:
(For an individual)
____________________________ ________________________________(SEAL)
WITNESS:
____________________________ ________________________________(SEAL)
Both Releasor and Releasee will sign, in the form required (corporation or individual)

I like her form better.

Originally Posted by A.D. Miller

I like her form better.

I forget who said it: If it weren't for lawyers, we wouldn't need any.

"I like her form better."

Aaron
I think that is the nicest post you have ever written.
Could it be that you are...."Smitten"?

I think that is the nicest post you have ever written.
Could it be that you are...."Smitten"?

RC: I hardly know the lassie.

A portion of my post above was inappropriate, uncalled for and without merit.
I feel bad that I said it.
My apologies for speaking out of place.

All such niceties. I might become ill over this.

OOOps I forgot.

I keep forgetting those disclaimers.

"A portion of my post above was inappropriate, uncalled for and without merit.
I feel bad that I said it.
My apologies for speaking out of place."

Mike

Do you have a contract and did you use it? If so, did you give your client the contract at least 24 hours before the inspection?

I know that sounds silly, but without a signed contract a home inspector is running naked and most are not a pretty sight, form or no form.

I could elborate, but I think you know where I'm going with this and I posted this out not just for you, but anyone else listening.

My litigation ew work shows the first cause of action is usually about not fufilling the contract or there wasn't one.

Do you have a contract and did you use it? If so, did you give your client the contract at least 24 hours before the inspection?

\


Jerry,

For a number of reasons, half of my clients don't see my contract 'til the time of inspection. In my inspection contract I state that they have the right to change their mind in regards to the contract within a 48 hour period.

Am I asking for it by doing it this way?

Originally Posted by Brandon Whitmore

\


Jerry,

For a number of reasons, half of my clients don't see my contract 'til the time of inspection. In my inspection contract I state that they have the right to change their mind in regards to the contract within a 48 hour period.

Am I asking for it by doing it this way?

Only if they want to get some money from you after the inspection like say a month or so

Your contract, and all that it say and your great report will not keep you out of a mess if you find the wrong buyer.

Try sleeping on that one...

Best

Ron

Am I asking for it by doing it this way?

BW: You bet!

Contract to have any weight in law should be signed prior to start of inspection. Any limits of liability should be pointed out to the client.

Its also a good idea to have your contract on your website for client review and refer them to it, better still have them print it out and bring it to the inspection already filled out and signed.

No contract will protect you from negligence - NONE!

Contract to have any weight in law should be signed prior to start of inspection.

RW: Not true, according to my attorney.

....and what does your attorney say?

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

....and what does your attorney say?

RW: As long as it is signed prior to being paid and delivery of the report it is legal. Could be different in the Land of Ice and Snow.

Originally Posted by A.D. Miller

RW: As long as it is signed prior to being paid and delivery of the report it is legal. Could be different in the Land of Ice and Snow.

Many attorneys will state that unless it is signed at least 24 hours before the inspection (which would allow them to cancel and call another inspector) that signing the contract at the time of the inspection places the client "under duress" and can weaken, even void, the validity of the contract.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Many attorneys will state that unless it is signed at least 24 hours before the inspection (which would allow them to cancel and call another inspector) that signing the contract at the time of the inspection places the client "under duress" and can weaken, even void, the validity of the contract.

JP: But you do not live in Texas. AND, perhaps more importantly, your attorneys are not licensed to practice here.

The Sky is Not the Limit: Limitation of Liability Clauses May Be the Solution to Cap Your Contractual Liability Newsletter Article

How Can Your Business Limit Potential Liability?
A limitation of liability clause is only as valuable as its ability to be enforced; therefore, drafting is key. Increasing the likelihood that a limitation of liability clause will be enforced may simply be a matter of observing the following drafting guidelines:

• Make the Clause Conspicuous: Set the clause in bold face print or underline or otherwise place the clause apart from the rest of the text on the page on which it appears so that the other party is aware of its existence.

Originally Posted by A.D. Miller

RW: As long as it is signed prior to being paid and delivery of the report it is legal. Could be different in the Land of Ice and Snow.

Obviously you are only speaking of Texas? Many states have consumer protection laws which void limitation of liability clauses.

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

Obviously you are only speaking of Texas? Many states have consumer protection laws which void limitation of liability clauses.

RW: I wasn't speaking at all. My attorney was. And, as you might have surmised, he is also in Texas.

My personal take on it is this. Get it signed prior to if possible. It is not always possible unless you just prefer to pass on those who do not sign prior to. In this market, I do not pass on any unless absolutely necessary.

I would wonder, on what grounds is this person asking for a refund. If it is because he feels the inspection was inadequate. Issuing a refund to him can be concidered an admission of guilt in some states.

Originally Posted by Bob R

I would wonder, on what grounds is this person asking for a refund. If it is because he feels the inspection was inadequate. Issuing a refund to him can be concidered an admission of guilt in some states.

BR: Regardless why the client requests a refund I send it to them. No questions asked. Once I have the hold-harmless document signed I issue them a check and remove them from my database. Good riddance.

Issuing a refund is just good business practice under bad circumstances. You will incur no liability for doing so and it is not an admission of guilt, but rather a show of good faith.

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

Obviously you are only speaking of Texas? Many states have consumer protection laws which void limitation of liability clauses.

Any court can throw out any limit to liability if they choose to do so at the time.

Almost any contract that has to do with a home inspection is just about as good as a pile of bull s**t. It will hold up a well as a fresh pile of steeming buill crap as well.

If you screw up, well enough said, you screw up, that contract is good for nothing. That is what a contract for limitation of liability is suppose to be for. If you screw up you might as well throw the contract out because it will do you no good to try to stand by it.

Judge

Let me see. You wrote up that there were no major concerns with the foundation.

You

That is right your honor.

Judge

An engineer and a foundation company state that the cracks all over the home on the inside and out and in the foundation and the tile throughout the home cracked should have lit that little light bulb in that little brain of yours and you should have written it up as major concerns and deferred it to and engineer for further evaluation. Also this here guy. Whats his name? Oh yeah, Scott, who is a home inspector, says it was so blatant that his blind dead great grand mother could have spotted it.

What do you have to say for yourself .

You

Well I have this here piece of crap limitation of liability that my client signed releasing me from anything more than 2 times the inspection fee.

Judge.

Now thats funny boy. I suggest you throw that there limitation away because you are going to pay. Now what do you have to say.

You

Well, let me just make note of all of this for my insurance company your honor.

None of InterNACHI member's limitations of liability have ever been struck by any court ever.

This is because our agreement has the client, as part of the "bargained for" report, acknowledge that the limiting of liquidated damages are, among other things

(iii) to enable the INSPECTOR to perform the inspection at the stated fee.

iii is important because it reiterates what the rest of InterNACHI's residential inspection agreement and SOP state; that InterNACHI members don't offer a service whereby they uncover every single defect in the home in only a few hours, for a few hundred dollars, and that the client understands that in return for paying a fee that is something substantially less than a totally technically exhaustive inspection would cost, he/she agrees to limit the InterNACHI member's liability.

This, among other reasons such as InterNACHI's extensive educational requirements, allow InterNACHI members, and only InterNACHI members, to enjoy drastically discounted E&O premiums, or in the case of FREA, enjoy free GL insurance.

... and thank you for the Nachi plug... gee Nachi sure it terrific!

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

None of InterNACHI member's limitations of liability have ever been struck by any court ever.

This is because our agreement has the client, as part of the "bargained for" report, acknowledge that the limiting of liquidated damages are, among other things


This, among other reasons such as InterNACHI's extensive educational requirements, allow InterNACHI members, and only InterNACHI members, to enjoy drastically discounted E&O premiums, or in the case of FREA, enjoy free GL insurance.

I'm sure you can back this up with
[ 1] What the InterNACHI member's limitations of liability is..
[2] A number of How many nacho inspectors that's been sued, and only had to settle to what was stated in that limitation of liability
[3] How many members of nachi have auctually inspected a home
[4] Proof that all nachi members completed extensive educational requirements.
[ 5] How many nachi members have been a member for over 3 or 5 years?

Hmmm.. after thinking about it and knowing nickos history of spamming a message board that he tried to hijack, and claims this site is nazi news, Getting an answer on any of the questions, and an honest answer on the last two may be a problem..
#4 ... ole nicko stated on his BB that nacho doesn't keep that info.
#5 .... I think this and a few other questions have been asked before with out an answer over the last few weeks on this site.


Free GL insurance? Every E@O insurance co I requested rates from, included GL with the quote.

Last I heard this only applied to nacho members, OR any other inspector that paid nick an additional $300.00 to market them to the public as a " Certified Master Inspector"

drastically discounted E&O premiums?? Can you back that one up also?
Before replying better hurry up and delete the 100s of E@O comments from nickos certified eletes, on your site claiming how expensive it is for new inspectors..

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

None of InterNACHI member's limitations of liability have ever been struck by any court ever.

This is because our agreement has the client, as part of the "bargained for" report, acknowledge that the limiting of liquidated damages are, among other things

iii is important because it reiterates what the rest of InterNACHI's residential inspection agreement and SOP state; that InterNACHI members don't offer a service whereby they uncover every single defect in the home in only a few hours, for a few hundred dollars, and that the client understands that in return for paying a fee that is something substantially less than a totally technically exhaustive inspection would cost, he/she agrees to limit the InterNACHI member's liability.

This, among other reasons such as InterNACHI's extensive educational requirements, allow InterNACHI members, and only InterNACHI members, to enjoy drastically discounted E&O premiums, or in the case of FREA, enjoy free GL insurance.

Sorry

Not buying it. How about all that paid out money to shut the client up that never went to court. If one of ASHI's or NACHI's member just flat out miss something they are going down to some extent no matter what kind of agreement they have. If they miss something then they are not following SOPs to some extent. Don't follow the SOPs then that contract is crap unless they are in an unregulated, unlicensed state that does not go after inspectors after a complaint is filed.

I personally do not know of any inspector I have met in the past that has had a complaint or law suit against them. That does not mean that they have not it just means they chose not to disclose it. They paid out of pocket for their screw up.

Lisa.....Seriously....NACHI claims to have how many thousands of inspectors with them and not one ever has had any kind of law suit or complaint that went any further than the cost or double the cost of the inspection. I guess that is why the insurance companies charge so little money for their insurance

I for one have never had a legal complaint againnst me in 10 years of full time and 20 years of part time on top of that Inspecting.

Seriously....not trying to be hard on you but are you seriously believing what you are saying. If you are then I am a 28 year old buff weight lifter that all the young ladies are after

Canadian case law shows that other association SOP withstand court scrutiny also. So its not an exclusive statement only relative Nacho.

.... well there is that Canadian Nacho member who conducted a termite inspection even though not qualified and no E&O insurance to boot when purchaser finds house infested with termites. Me thinks Nacho so claimed standards are about to undergo a litmus test!

So much for bragging rights!

Dan, Insurance companies have to put their money where their mouths are.

It is InterNACHI members, not Certified Master Inspectors that get free GL. No, not just quoted additionally with their E&O, but free.

Certified Master Inspectors get zero deductible for free from FREA. What is your deductible?

Lisa

I really don't know how you can come on this board and make the statements you do, but I am still waiting for an explanantion why you called me a racist?

In your roll of Communications Director do you have a degree or other experience in public relations? If so I am finding it difficult to comprehend why you would make such a statement with no proof. If you are not educated to be a Communications Director that would explain your statement, becaue you don't have the qualifications to back up what your job entails.

Your posts and your comments don't give you any credibility in your efforts to paint Nachi professional, let alone ethical.

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

Dan, Insurance companies have to put their money where their mouths are.

It is InterNACHI members, not Certified Master Inspectors that get free GL. No, not just quoted additionally with their E&O, but free.

Certified Master Inspectors get zero deductible for free from FREA. What is your deductible?

$ 2500 ded with a rate of $1200 less than your prefered company. Sounds like my company does put their money where their mouth is,
or is it they allow me to keep more of my money to feed my mouth

Why does it matter what my or anybodys eles's deductible is, when all I have to do is just write in my contract that I am only liabile for x amount of $s.

What about one of your inspectors that recently had to buy his customer a new AC unit..??? Me thinks that cost far more than 2X the inspection fee.

I answered your questions NOW when are you going to answer yours

Why does it matter what my or anybodys eles's deductible is, when all I have to do is just write in my contract that I am only liabile for x amount of $.

Because it won't be upheld in court if unilateral. InterNACHI is only able to have them upheld the way I explained in my post #27.

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

... and thank you for the Nachi plug... gee Nachi sure it terrific!

LOL..Despite claims of having millions of web pages , Ole nickos employee [ or is it nicko himself?] now needs to come to a site that nicko claimed was going down the tubes and he was going to buy it a couple years ago, to market his snake oil products to inspectors.

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

Because it won't be upheld in court if unilateral. InterNACHI is only able to have them upheld the way I explained in my post #27.

So how do you explain this unfortunate case [ Below } with one of your members that had insurance, and had to pay his deductable of $1000, with one of your preferred E@O companys.

What about one of your inspectors that recently had to buy his customer a new AC unit..??? Me thinks that cost far more than 2X the inspection fee

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

Lisa

I really don't know how you can come on this board and make the statements you do, but I am still waiting for an explanantion why you called me a racist?

In your roll of Communications Director do you have a degree or other experience in public relations? If so I am finding it difficult to comprehend why you would make such a statement with no proof. If you are not educated to be a Communications Director that would explain your statement, becaue you don't have the qualifications to back up what your job entails.

Your posts and your comments don't give you any credibility in your efforts to paint Nachi professional, let alone ethical.

Come on please with the racist crap or who called who what.

This is about contract and waivers and such. This does not have to become like the other thread that there is three different sections on.

This is not about NACHI, ASHI, or TREC.

It was a simple claim that far from all claims against home inspectors are claimed. Most are paid of with a few hundred or less and no one knows the wiser.

Quite simply it was about people buying into hype and such, not about racist remarks and such. Please do not turn this into a pissing match please. Yes it is an open forum to discuss what you like but lets just not go there.

We are all far bigger than that. And some are bigger than others....literally

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

Because it won't be upheld in court if unilateral. InterNACHI is only able to have them upheld the way I explained in my post #27.

So your telling me and other inspectors on this site, that all we have to do is pay nick $289.00 and we will only be held liable for X amount of $ per his contract if we screw up.

If I pay for your product and a judge decides that contract is BS, what recourse do I have against the nick for selling me this?

So your telling me and other inspectors on this site, that all we have to do is pay nick $289.00 and we will only be held liable for X amount of $ per his contract if we screw up.

No Dan. I'm telling you the secret way InterNACHI keeps its limitation of liabilities from being struck down. Now you can too. Read my post #27 again and don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

No Dan. I'm telling you the secret way InterNACHI keeps its limitation of liabilities from being struck down. Now you can too. Read my post #27 again and don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

Now I can too.... nick a gift horse
No thanks, I would never consider supporting anyone that states HI that do not pay nicko should be killed, are dumb, stupid, scumbags etc:
Newbys might buy into that for a couple years.
With out an answer to the question of home many inspectors belong to your org for more than 3 plus years, [ to back up your claim that nachi caters to experienced inspectors ] , I can only assume that I am not the only one with that opinion, and that number is real low.
The best gift horse this profession has is this FREE site with inspectors that share their experience at no charge, and the professional venders that PAY to market their products on this site.

Originally Posted by Dan Harris

Newbys might buy into that for a couple years.

I find it interesting that the so call "Newbys" are likely to be around 40 or older. You're making it out like they are 18 year olds that don't know any better.

Ted stated:

Quite simply it was about people buying into hype and such, not about racist remarks and such. Please do not turn this into a pissing match please. Yes it is an open forum to discuss what you like but lets just not go there.

Is that an order Ted? You are not the one to be called a RACIST by the COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR OF NACHI with no proof whatsoever. How can anyone like Lisa come here and then come off as knowledgeable and professional? It taints anything she says because no one in that position would openly label someone a racist!

It is clear that Lisa attempt to keep the name Nachi in the forefront on a competing board and providng less than accurate information when challenged is the norm for Nacho.

Given the questionable statements which have been already challenged as inaccurate and hyped up is yet another effort on the part of the communications director to parlay Nicks message onto this forum, with nothing but bull crap.

Thanks Ted, just needed to get that off my chest. Sorry you feel calling someone a racist is diverting attention from this thread.

Originally Posted by Kevin Luce

I find it interesting that the so call "Newbys" are likely to be around 40 or older. You're making it out like they are 18 year olds that don't know any better.

Kevin,

Typical post for a Nachi member. Who is the newbie here?

For a newbie such as yourself you may want to put your name on your website so the public exactly knows who the person is they are dealing with, less you be seen as a Nacho newbie. I guess Nacho didn't tell you how to market yourself and that your name is the face of your biz. Maybe you should talk to the communications director, I am sure she can give you some sage factual advice.

Typical post for a Nachi member.

Lol! I'm not sure what that means. All I was saying is that the so called InterNACHI newbies are likely 40 years old or older. They have life experience and their judgement is likely must better than say a 16 year old just learning how to drive or an 18 year old knowing what they want to do for a living.

For a newbie such as yourself

Lol again. How many years do I have to be in the home inspection business before I'm not called a newbie? Over 10 years of doing this?

you may want to put your name on your website so the public exactly knows who the person is they are dealing with, less you be seen as a Nacho newbie.

Why would I want that? I want my company to shine. I don't want people to say call Kevin because he is a good inspector. I want them to say call Quality Home Inspections because they did a great job when inspecting my home. I don't know hardly any electrical company, heating company, plumbing company that list the workers on their website. At this time, I have met all my goals except the secretary (which I'm in the process of hiring) and one employee (which I hope to have before next spring).

I guess Nacho didn't tell you how to market yourself and that your name is the face of your biz. Maybe you should talk to the communications director, I am sure she can give you some sage factual advice.

Neither NAHI, AHSI or InterNACHI is going to tell me how to do something. If they don't like it, they can kick me out (that's the most they can do and overall I don't care). When I was a ASHI member, I didn't like the direction they were going so I didn't renew. InterNACHI I joined for a year many years ago and felt the same thing. The only reason I re-joined InterNACHI this year is because I was tired of paying for CE classes (required by my state) which didn't add up to a hill of beans. Now I just get my free CE credits from InterNACHI and spend my money on classes that actually educate me on more than just the basic (which is basicly what ASHI and InterNACHI offers when I took their CE classes).

Unlike some, I personally don't want to be the center of attention. I don't what somebody else telling me how to run my business. And I don't want to be known as an ASHI, NAHI or InterNACHI inspector. I am just an owner/home inspector that wants my business to grow so it will support me and my family and provide a good service to buyers of the house.

Originally Posted by Kevin Luce

I find it interesting that the so call "Newbys" are likely to be around 40 or older. You're making it out like they are 18 year olds that don't know any better.

Good Point.. . Reading another topic some have to get peed on a couple times to figure this out

Has anyone watched the "B" movie?

Watch out for the Blood Sucking Parasites with a Briefcase

Why would I want that? I want my company to shine. I don't want people to say call Kevin because he is a good inspector. I want them to say call Quality Home Inspections because they did a great job when inspecting my home. I don't know hardly any electrical company, heating company, plumbing company that list the workers on their website. At this time, I have met all my goals except the secretary (which I'm in the process of hiring) and one employee (which I hope to have before next spring).

You are your company, the company is you. Its the equivalent of leaving your name off your business card. Did you leave your name off your business card?

I think you are missing a marketing opportunity regardless whether you want them to know your company name only. Just my experience being a sole proprieter and using my name to market my services.

You are your company, the company is you.

Enough people know who I am without promoting myself. After hiring a secretary and hopefully a home inspector, that statement is going to be less true.

Did you leave your name off your business card?

Yes and No. I have one set of cards that have my name while the other business cards do not. It's a marketing thing.

I think you are missing a marketing opportunity regardless whether you want them to know your company name only. Just my experience being a sole proprieter and using my name to market my services.

I've been doing home inspection for 10 years and owned my own business when I moved up to Indiana for the last 8 years. I have been doing home inspections under my business name full time for 7 years and completely supported my family while my wife wanted to take a year off (which ended up being 18 months). After the drop of the economy, I realized that I can support a secretary and a home inspector since my wife is back to work and we have insurance through her work. Hiring a secretary is not an issue with me but trying to find someone good that will do a good home inspection and stay with my company I think is going to be one of the hardest things I have done. Once I have found and kept that home inspector, I will have met all my goals for this business. While I don't think the number of years I have ran my company is impressive, I do feel that I have been doing it enough years to know that what I'm doing works for my company (especially comparing to other home inspection companies around here).

As a side note, I feel one of the problems with many home inspectors is they think too much as a one man show, which is resulting in the cost of home inspections to be lower. I have always looked at and done things so when this company becomes a multi-inspector company, the paperwork and procedures would be in place.

My wife and I are also starting a company called Trust Funding Solutions. We will be working with lawyers and their clients' trusts. While you may still think using our names is important, we are planing on promoting the company primarily. Promoting ourselves will be secondary.