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  1. #1
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Agent signs contract for buyer

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Bibler View Post
    Have you ever had an agent sign your inspection contract for the buyer ?

    Best

    Ron
    Yep.

    My contract had a line for the client's signature which stated:

    ________________________________
    Client's Signature
    (or person representing themselves as CLIENT or CLIENT’S REPRESENTATIVE)

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  3. #3
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Agent signs contract for buyer

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Yep.

    My contract had a line for the client's signature which stated:

    ________________________________
    Client's Signature
    (or person representing themselves as CLIENT or CLIENT’S REPRESENTATIVE)
    So Jerry If the Client did not ( read ) or ( sign ) the contract how can the Client have any right to the report? or in court.

    Best

    Ron


  4. #4
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    Default Re: Agent signs contract for buyer

    Yes have had agent sign on behalf of client, but it does not happen very often. Have also had agent pay on behalf of client.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Agent signs contract for buyer

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Bibler View Post
    So Jerry If the Client did not ( read ) or ( sign ) the contract how can the Client have any right to the report? or in court.

    Best

    Ron
    Huh?

    The person who signed did so as the client's representative. Says so right on my contract. It would be very difficult for the agent or whomever to then say the client did not have any right to the report.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Agent signs contract for buyer

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Bibler View Post
    Have you ever had an agent sign your inspection contract for the buyer ?

    Best

    Ron
    No.

    I email the contract if needed. I have them sign it, scan it, and email or fax it back. I know it's a copy but it's better than nothing. Or is it?


  7. #7
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    Default Re: Agent signs contract for buyer

    I do the same as Jerry and have a similar statement.

    Truth be known, the contract is more of a bluff. If you screw-up on an inspection a contract will not protect you against professional negligence.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Agent signs contract for buyer

    Its adviseable to put your contract up on your website and have the clients print it out and bring it signed to the inspection.


  9. #9
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    Default Re: Agent signs contract for buyer

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    Its adviseable to put your contract up on your website and have the clients print it out and bring it signed to the inspection.

    I agree on having the contract posted at your site. However, suggesting the client print it out opens a door to trouble.

    You can never be sure that someone might edit the contract before printing it. Are you as the inspector going to read the contract that is printed by someone else? If not, you better be the one who prints it.


  10. #10
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Agent signs contract for buyer

    Quote Originally Posted by John Dirks Jr View Post
    I agree on having the contract posted at your site. However, suggesting the client print it out opens a door to trouble.

    You can never be sure that someone might edit the contract before printing it. Are you as the inspector going to read the contract that is printed by someone else? If not, you better be the one who prints it.
    If some one would do something like that you are in big trouble... as that kind of a person has bigger plans for you...

    Best

    Ron


  11. #11
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    Default Re: Agent signs contract for buyer

    I e-mail a blank template of the agreement to the client before the inspection so they can review it. If they have a real problem with the verbiage, they can bail before the inspection even takes place (that's happened a couple times). Then I have them sign a completed agreement at the inspection.


  12. #12
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    Default Re: Agent signs contract for buyer

    I email a filled-out copy of the contract to the client to give him/her a chance to read it in advance. Apparently, if you don't do something like this, in Pennsylvania, at least, the client can claim he/she signed it "under duress" at the home inspection and it can get thrown out.
    At the inspection I ask if they read it and if they have any questions, and then I have them sign two copies, which I provide, which I also have signed, and they get one and I get one.
    I'm sure Scott knows what he's talking about with regard to the relative impotence of the contract, but this may vary by state.

    "There is no exception to the rule that every rule has an exception." -James Thurber, writer and cartoonist (1894-1961)
    www.ArnoldHomeInspections.com

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Agent signs contract for buyer

    "Truth be known, the contract is more of a bluff. If you screw-up on an inspection a contract will not protect you against professional negligence."


    More of a bluff???? You are correct if you are negligent a contract isnt going to get you a "get out of lawsuit free card".


    My contract has a lot more in it than if I miss something, and I am sure it is enforceable. My E&O carrier requires a copy of it before they will even write the policy. It protects them and me from items other than negligence.


  14. #14
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    Default Re: Agent signs contract for buyer

    If the agent has a buyers representative contract with the buyer, legally they could sign your contract agreement on their behalf.

    rick


  15. #15
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    Default Re: Agent signs contract for buyer

    I second Scott. When I went to small claims court email correspondence proved to be more valuable then the contract. The judge didn't even care about the contract.


  16. #16
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    Default Re: Agent signs contract for buyer

    I would never allow a Real Estate Agent to sign a contract for my client.

    Unless they had a Power of Attorney (notarized) That authorized them as a signer.

    I cant imagine any agent wanting to sign the agreement. It opens them up to more liability.

    We email a contract as soon as the inspection is booked. The client agrees before we start the job. No misunderstandings that way.


  17. #17
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    Default Re: Agent signs contract for buyer

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    I do the same as Jerry and have a similar statement.

    Truth be known, the contract is more of a bluff. If you screw-up on an inspection a contract will not protect you against professional negligence.
    Above is true.
    I have done many inspections for Lawyers and none read my contract.
    I asked one why he did not read it and he said do a proper inspection and every thing will be fine ,Screw up and no contract will keep you out of court.
    Yes done many inspections where agent signs for the client .
    Doing one Friday and will send report expect check in a few days.
    Did one today client forgot his cheque book I will see the Chegue in a few days.

    Never ever had a concern about getting paid or who signs for the inspection.
    I love the simple life hope it stays the way it is.

    Roy Cooke ... RHI....


  18. #18
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Agent signs contract for buyer

    So would you think that a law firm would drag the real estate agent into a lawsuit and hold the inspection company and the real estate agent for what ever the case would be. I would think so.

    Kind of like the deep pockets thing. Name every one they can.

    Best

    Ron


  19. #19

    Default Re: Agent signs contract for buyer

    I have done many inspections for Lawyers and none read my contract.
    It's funny how things vary. My lawyers tend to read my contracts word for word, and I've had a couple of them ask if they could modify something here and there.


  20. #20
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    Default Re: Agent signs contract for buyer

    Folks, ya just can't worry about lawsuits. If you do it will drive you crazy and out of the profession. Lawsuits are not a prevalent as everyone thinks. Sure they happen, but you have to put everything into prospective.

    Contracts or agreements as I like to call them should be looked at as a road map of your inspection and service. You are spelling out what you do and what you don't do. It really should not be full of disclaimers, but as we all know most are nothing but disclaimers. Don't get me wrong, I think every inspection should have a written contract just so that everyone knows what is going to take place.

    For what it is worth; this week I picked up a new EW case. It is a shotgun lawsuit and it is a mess. The inspector I think will get off but it will cost him/her a little bit. They do have E&O so that is a good thing. Everyone had a contract and they have not even been introduced into discovery. Only the sales contract has been introduced! It is in a unlicensed State, so that makes it a little more exciting and unpredictable.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Agent signs contract for buyer

    Scott

    Therein lies the problem the lawyer and client think they have a case, but no evidence is presented until discovery where it is picked apart then the opposing parties see the realities.

    Any good lawyer will research the case and advise the client of his chance for success and he can do this by reviewing case law with similar circumstances. But if the lawyer can charge for the time and keep the client hopeful well; .... need I say more? After all the defendants E&O is going to foot the bill so why wouldn't the lawyer string the clients along?

    The only winner is the lawyer.


  22. #22
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    Default Re: Agent signs contract for buyer

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post

    The only winner is the lawyer.
    Well, I would also say that I'm a winner as well! This case if it follows the pattern should be around 10-15 hours of work. It gets to the point that you just look at it as another job and you just do your part.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  23. #23
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Agent signs contract for buyer

    [quote=Scott Patterson;94965]Folks, have to put everything into prospective.

    Contracts or agreements as I like to call them. I think every inspection should have a written contract just so that everyone knows what is going to take place.

    For what it is worth; this week I picked up a new EW case. It is a shotgun lawsuit and it is a mess. The inspector I think will get off but it will cost him/her a little bit. quote]

    Hey Scott. got few Question for you If may ask...

    What is the one thing you see the most of.

    Is it the inspector just overlook something ?

    Did not known what he was doing ?

    And if you have a contract with a buyer. have you ever had the contract overlook by the judge like say The inspector did not look in the attic due to unsafe working condition. like damage framing. and stated in the report.

    It was stated in the contract unsafe areas will not be inspected.

    Or the inspector did not inspect the sub-structure due to unsafe working condition like excessive moisture.

    Stated in the report as unsafe.

    I'm just trying to get an understanding of the law as it has been applied
    to HI.

    In my 30 years never been in court over an inspection.

    But crap happens.

    If any one else has some input please input

    Thanks

    Ron


  24. #24
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    Default Re: Agent signs contract for buyer

    I did an inspection yesterday that the client's lawyer friend attended. I was going over the contract with her and he stated "Don't sign that until we can talk about it" I stopped everything and told them go talk about it because no contract no inspection. He came back and stated he didn't like the arbitration clause and we'd have to change it.
    My answer was "what can possibly be wrong with it since it was written by a lawyer". No contract no inspection. Client signed and we continued.

    If a man empties his purse into his head no one can take it away from him. An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest
    Benjamin Franklin

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Agent signs contract for buyer

    [QUOTE=Ron Bibler;94995]
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    Folks, have to put everything into prospective.

    Contracts or agreements as I like to call them. I think every inspection should have a written contract just so that everyone knows what is going to take place.

    For what it is worth; this week I picked up a new EW case. It is a shotgun lawsuit and it is a mess. The inspector I think will get off but it will cost him/her a little bit. quote]

    Hey Scott. got few Question for you If may ask...

    What is the one thing you see the most of.

    Is it the inspector just overlook something ?
    Yes...

    Did not known what he was doing ?
    Not so much as just screwing up. Most problems are communication related. AKA as poor reporting or under reporting. Also, the use of "Inspectorspeak" is a major problem.

    And if you have a contract with a buyer. have you ever had the contract overlook by the judge like say The inspector did not look in the attic due to unsafe working condition. like damage framing. and stated in the report.

    It was stated in the contract unsafe areas will not be inspected.

    Or the inspector did not inspect the sub-structure due to unsafe working condition like excessive moisture.

    Stated in the report as unsafe.

    I'm just trying to get an understanding of the law as it has been applied
    to HI.

    In my 30 years never been in court over an inspection.

    But crap happens.

    If any one else has some input please input

    Thanks

    Ron
    It can be many of those items. Most of the problems I see deal with moisture related issues, hidden damage, and under reported problems.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Agent signs contract for buyer

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Vernon View Post
    I did an inspection yesterday that the client's lawyer friend attended. I was going over the contract with her and he stated "Don't sign that until we can talk about it" I stopped everything and told them go talk about it because no contract no inspection. He came back and stated he didn't like the arbitration clause and we'd have to change it.
    My answer was "what can possibly be wrong with it since it was written by a lawyer". No contract no inspection. Client signed and we continued.
    LOVE IT! Good on ya!


  27. #27
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    Default Re: Agent signs contract for buyer

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Vernon View Post
    I did an inspection yesterday that the client's lawyer friend attended. I was going over the contract with her and he stated "Don't sign that until we can talk about it" I stopped everything and told them go talk about it because no contract no inspection. He came back and stated he didn't like the arbitration clause and we'd have to change it.
    My answer was "what can possibly be wrong with it since it was written by a lawyer". No contract no inspection. Client signed and we continued.
    Quote Originally Posted by John Dirks Jr View Post
    I agree on having the contract posted at your site. However, suggesting the client print it out opens a door to trouble.

    You can never be sure that someone might edit the contract before printing it. Are you as the inspector going to read the contract that is printed by someone else? If not, you better be the one who prints it.
    If that were the case the client would not have any legal grounds. He can't change the contract on the website, how would the two contracts compare, there would be obvious glaring dissimilarities.


  28. #28
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Agent signs contract for buyer

    [quote=Scott Patterson;94999]
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Bibler View Post

    It can be many of those items. Most of the problems I see deal with moisture related issues, hidden damage, and under reported problems.
    How can you report on something if you can not get to it ?

    like say damage to a floor. the sub-structure was not inspected do to unsafe working condition, excessive moisture condition.

    In my area this is a big deal as we have a clay soil that jusy holds water and in the winter 50 or 60 % of the sub-areas are not inspected.

    Best

    Ron


  29. #29
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    Default Re: Agent signs contract for buyer

    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon Whitmore View Post
    It's funny how things vary. My lawyers tend to read my contracts word for word, and I've had a couple of them ask if they could modify something here and there.
    I totally agree.... Oregon is one of the few state's (at least from what I've gathered around here and other places) that will generally uphold Limitation of Liability Clauses. That's why the lawyers read them so closely around here.

    It also brings up a funny dynamic when a lawyer tries to get out from under a contract. "So, you didn't read the contract before you signed it Mr. Buyer. And, what is it you do for a living?" Yep, a little tough to answer.

    Kind of like one of us trying to go after a seller for an undisclosed problem in a house we bought.... we're not going to get very far. But, as mentioned, it all varies by state.

    I recently even had an attorney look at my LOL clause (in big bold letters and requiring her initials) and mention that she knew all about how they're upheld in Oregon.

    I've never had the honor of defending mine to the bitter end but I've heard from others that they are upheld. But, I also talked to a state mediator once who said they will look past them if extreme cases. So, all you inferior inspectors who were packing your bags to move to Oregon.... it's not a free lunch. And it rains here a lot, too


  30. #30
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    Default Re: Agent signs contract for buyer

    [QUOTE=Ron Bibler;95004]
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post

    How can you report on something if you can not get to it ?

    like say damage to a floor. the sub-structure was not inspected do to unsafe working condition, excessive moisture condition.

    In my area this is a big deal as we have a clay soil that jusy holds water and in the winter 50 or 60 % of the sub-areas are not inspected.

    Best

    Ron
    Don't forget that you can be named in a lawsuit for just about anything. You the defendant must prove that you are innocent and not at fault. Most of the time this type of lawsuit involves everyone who had a hand in the sale of the home, aka shotgun lawsuit.

    Many times "hidden" damage is not really hidden. Signs and conditions or other mitigating factors are missed and if the inspector had noticed those conditions they would have prompted him/her to investigate further.

    A few State HI laws do offer some protection for latent defects, hidden damage or camouflaged damaged. Still that will not always prevent a person from filing a lawsuit.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  31. #31
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Agent signs contract for buyer

    Truth be known, the contract is more of a bluff. If you screw-up on an inspection a contract will not protect you against professional negligence
    SP: No truer words were ever spoken.


  32. #32
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    Default Re: Agent signs contract for buyer

    Don't forget that you can be named in a lawsuit for just about anything. You the defendant must prove that you are innocent and not at fault. Most of the time this type of lawsuit involves everyone who had a hand in the sale of the home, aka shotgun lawsuit.
    Actually, the plaintiff has the onus legally to prove you were negligent, and the respondent must prove his innocence.

    To prove negligence is not very easy. The five elements required of the plaintiff are to prove...


    1. there must be a duty of care based on a special relationship between the parties,

    2. the representation made by one party to the other must be false, inaccurate or misleading,

    3. the representation must be made negligently,

    4. the person to whom the representation is made must have reasonably relied on the representation and,

    5. the reliance must have been detrimental to that person with the consequence of his suffering damages.


  33. #33
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Agent signs contract for buyer

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    Actually, the plaintiff has the onus legally to prove you were negligent, and the respondent must prove his innocence.

    To prove negligence is not very easy. The five elements required of the plaintiff are to prove...


    1. there must be a duty of care based on a special relationship between the parties,

    2. the representation made by one party to the other must be false, inaccurate or misleading,

    3. the representation must be made negligently,

    4. the person to whom the representation is made must have reasonably relied on the representation and,

    5. the reliance must have been detrimental to that person with the consequence of his suffering damages.
    RW: Justice, poor dear that she is, must be somewhat blinder down here.


  34. #34
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    Default Re: Agent signs contract for buyer

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    Actually, the plaintiff has the onus legally to prove you were negligent, and the respondent must prove his innocence.

    To prove negligence is not very easy. The five elements required of the plaintiff are to prove...


    1. there must be a duty of care based on a special relationship between the parties,

    2. the representation made by one party to the other must be false, inaccurate or misleading,

    3. the representation must be made negligently,

    4. the person to whom the representation is made must have reasonably relied on the representation and,

    5. the reliance must have been detrimental to that person with the consequence of his suffering damages.
    All of that is true, but it only holds water if it goes to trial. I would say that 60% of the lawsuits settle out of court. Right or wrong if it ends up being less costly to settle, that is what happens in the majority of cases.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Agent signs contract for buyer

    Ron
    In California a licensed real estate agent is allowed to sign an inspection or PCO contract as they are acting as their client’s legal representative in a purchasing transaction.
    As far as law suits go, most plaintiffs’ attorneys throw a net over everybody who ever set foot on the property in an effort to ID the deep pockets?
    A home inspector with E&O insurance is usually at the top of that list.

    Jerry McCarthy
    Building Code/ Construction Consultant

  36. #36
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: Agent signs contract for buyer

    As far as law suits go, most plaintiffs’ attorneys throw a net over everybody who ever set foot on the property in an effort to ID the deep pockets?
    JM: And the frog hopping down the sidewalk on that day.

    A home inspector with E&O insurance is usually at the top of that list
    JM: Amen.


  37. #37
    Michael Greenwalt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Agent signs contract for buyer

    One word "NEVER"


  38. #38
    Richard Stanley's Avatar
    Richard Stanley Guest

    Default Re: Agent signs contract for buyer

    "do a proper inspection and every thing will be fine ,Screw up and no contract will keep you out of court."

    Contracts for inspections are aggravating and a waste of time.

    Trust everyone, but, brand your cattle.


  39. #39
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: Agent signs contract for buyer

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Stanley View Post
    "do a proper inspection and every thing will be fine ,Screw up and no contract will keep you out of court."

    Contracts for inspections are aggravating and a waste of time.

    Trust everyone, but, brand your cattle.
    RS: You mean, contract law has been officially suspended in Corpus?


  40. #40
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    Default Re: Agent signs contract for buyer

    Did another last week Cheque arrived today.... Roy


  41. #41
    Richard Stanley's Avatar
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    Default Re: Agent signs contract for buyer

    RS: You mean, contract law has been officially suspended in Corpus?

    I haven't been notified of anything about it by the legislature in Mexico city!!!


  42. #42
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Agent signs contract for buyer

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Bibler View Post
    Have you ever had an agent sign your inspection contract for the buyer ?

    Best

    Ron

    Contract ??????????

    What contract ???????????????


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