Thread: A Direct Question to Lisa Endza

Originally Posted by Jack Feldmann

Texas is a foreign country???????

I take it you have never been to Texas and talked with the locals.

Simply buying up website addresses is not indicative of number of inspectors in foreign countries.

When I do a search using Inspector Seek, I get well over a 100 supposed members of Nacho. That is patently false. When you start check the websites some are no longer operable, one person listed doesn't even list Nacho, no logo, nothing about Nacho on his site, and he is not the only one!

Here is one example
Don Daley is about 24.73 miles away from Caledon, ON. Actually he is 90.7 km which converts to 56.3 miles!!!!


Structurally Sound inc. - Online

He is a lot further away from me. So this calls into question the accuracy of Inspector Seek and like many things continually posted here by the Director of Communications are fabrications and embellishments!

InspectorSEEK.com doesn't go off of the member's home address, it uses his declared market area. In other words it uses where he wants to inspect, not where he sleeps.

We have nothing to do with that. Members control that from InterNACHI's member-controlled profile editor. - InterNACHI not us.

Guys....I think this thread has run its course and then some.

Even if NACHI has inflated member numbers (I still can't make the math work with the revenue numbers and purported paying membership); they are still a large and probably the largest HI association. Nick got them there by doing things that ASHI and NAHI should have been doing.

Nick's abrasive style is his own worst enemy, but clearly, he knows what a huge number of HIs want from an association. (Even if NACHI doesn't represent what most HIs want in a professional association, NACHI has what many HIs want from a professional association.) My guess is that the vast majority of NACHI members know next to nothing about Nick, but we see that among those who do, few are offended and probably none are quitting NACHI. I put forth that staunch NACHI defender, Kevin, as an example.

My two cents are......move on. Being pissed off at Nick or NACHI doesn't add a cent to your income. It's tilting at wind mills to joust with Nick......not to mention that he probably enjoys it.

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

I just used this thing called google and found these links in a few seconds. But believe whatever you want.

Ok, I see an Australian and a South African website. The rest of the links go to inachi in the U.S. I also see, by their webpages, they are not separate entities and membership is paid to inachi in Colorado.

Director of Communications (US membership & renewal)

A quick whois lookup on your Australian and South African site shows they're registered to Kent Shepard out of Boulder, Colorado, who by the way, has the same mailing address as inachi.

INTERNACHIAU.COM
Registry Domain ID: 1796646118_DOMAIN_COM-VRSN
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.godaddy.com
Registrar URL: Domain Names | The World's Largest Domain Name Registrar - GoDaddy
Update Date: 2013-04-25 14:23:03
Creation Date: 2013-04-25 14:23:03
Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2016-04-25 14:23:03
Registrar: GoDaddy.com, LLC
Registrar IANA ID: 146
Registrar Abuse Contact Email: @godaddy.com
Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +1.480-624-2505
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited
Domain Status: clientUpdateProhibited
Domain Status: clientRenewProhibited
Domain Status: clientDeleteProhibited
Registry Registrant ID:
Registrant Name: Kent Shepard
Registrant Organization: International Property Inspection
Registrant Street: 1750 30th st., box 301
Registrant City: Boulder
Registrant State/Province: Colorado
Registrant Postal Code: 80301
Registrant Country: United States
Registrant Phone: 303-717-8940

Still claim that they're totally separate entities?

Yes. What in your post makes you think they aren't separate entities?

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

Yes. What in your post makes you think they aren't separate entities?

Ummm, maybe because renewals are collected by inachi in Colorado and the foreign website addresses list to inachi's address in Colorado. And you still haven't provided any contact information in a foreign country.

Nope. InterNACHI U.S. has never collected on penny from any operations outside of the U.S. & Canada.

Hey, we have a bet going on at InterNACHI? What will ASHI release first? Their first entrance requirement or their first membership benefit? So far the betting has been about even. The problem is that we probably won't know until 2029.

My turn to ask a question. Is it true that the ASHI Certified Inspector designation is awarded without having to pass any exams (other than the "minimum standard" NHIE which is used to license newbies fresh out of school)? Sounds like a diploma mill if true.

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

Nope. InterNACHI U.S. has never collected on penny from any operations outside of the U.S. & Canada.

Hey, we have a bet going on at InterNACHI? What will ASHI release first? Their first entrance requirement or their first membership benefit? So far the betting has been about even. The problem is that we probably won't know until 2029.

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

My turn to ask a question. Is it true that the ASHI Certified Inspector designation is awarded without having to pass any exams (other than the "minimum standard" NHIE which is used to license newbies fresh out of school)? Sounds like a diploma mill if true.

You make yourself look guilty of something when you try to change the subject to a fight between associations. This isn't about ASHI or NAHI or any association except yours. We're trying to figure out if your advertised claims are true.

So far your "proof" has directly conflicted with your advertised claims. Your claimed income doesn't match up with your membership numbers and now you're trying to redirect the topic from your association to another.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

Nope. InterNACHI U.S. has never collected on penny from any operations outside of the U.S. & Canada.

At least now you're admitting you don't have any members from outside North America.

Can you explain why Australia and South Africa Internachi, which you claim to be separate entities than inach in the U.S. have websites registered to your office?

Your claimed income doesn't match up with your membership numbers and now you're trying to redirect the topic from your association to another.

Take our gross income from any year which is stated in the 990s I provided for you, divide by a little over $300 (most of our members are still paying $289 because we never, ever raise dues on existing members) and you get the number of members we had that year. Currently, in North America alone, we have this many members InterNACHI Membership Stats - InterNACHI That link is updated in live time every time someone quits or joins.

If you still don't believe we are the largest, go argue with ASHI's attorney and their Director of Communications.

http://www.nachi.org/forum/attachmen...ssociation.jpg

http://www.nachi.org/forum/attachmen...-mini-ashi.png

Once your done with this silly "who's biggest" game that men seem to love to play, ask yourself this. Why are so many joining and renewing with InterNACHI?

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

Once your done with this silly "who's biggest" game that men seem to love to play, ask yourself this. Why are so many joining and renewing with InterNACHI?

I'm not arguing who is the largest. I'm not arguing who has the most online education. I'm not saying inachi is falsifying their taxes.

I'm saying your income doesn't match your claimed membership. I'm also saying your operations outside of North America and claimed 30,000+ members worldwide are bogus. Yes, I believe you do have 11,000 members in North America, including all your subsidiary memberships such as CMIs and the free memberships you pass out like candy.

But, you don't have 11,000 paid members. I'm guessing you have approximately 5,000 dues paying inachi members in North America. That's more in line with your stated income.

How about ending the dispute by telling us exactly how many dues paying members inachi has. I'm thinking since inachi is a public non-profit organization you're required to disclose this information when asked.

How about ending the dispute by telling us exactly how many dues paying members inachi has.

Currently, over 11,000 in the U.S. and Canada.

Membership numbers run ahead of revenue in each fiscal year for several reasons that are true for any association that is rapidly growing and prorates dues. Let me try to demonstrate it for you by some real examples. If someone joins InterNACHI tonight, that member would count as one full additional member tonight and show up on InterNACHI Membership Stats - InterNACHI immediately, however, we'd only collect 7/12ths of his or her dues in 2014 (99% of all members choose our monthly payment plan). If someone joins at the end of this coming November, that member will count as a full additional member in 2014, however we'd only collect less than $50 in dues from him or her in 2014. His or her annual dues wouldn't show up in full until fiscal year 2015. See?

In 2013, our North American operations (U.S. and Canada) show dues revenue of 2.76 million. In 2014, our North American operations are on track to do 3.5 million. These revenue numbers are in perfect sync with our membership numbers for each year.

You also mentioned CMIs. Certified Master Inspectors make payments to the MICB, a totally different entity that files its own return each year. That revenue isn't included in InterNACHI's revenue, it is in addition to it.

The entity that is bigger than both is Inspector Outlet. They bring in more revenue than InterNACHI and the MICB (CMI) combined.

Again, you never mentioned your "free" give-away memberships and appear to be claiming all memberships are paid.

Home Inspection Report Software XL Pro Legacy Contract Internachi Membership | eBay

Free InterNACHI membership

https://www.homegauge.com/inspector/store/specials.html

Home Inspection Software - Home Inspector Pro

Those vendors only give away a certain number of first months in InterNACHI free and all applicants must put up their credit card to join (no exceptions). Thanks for pointing out that delayed billing contributes to membership numbers running ahead of revenue. I hadn't thought of that. There might be a couple more as well. This morning we had more than 11,200 members in North America, but the full revenue from those members won't be realized fiscally until 2015. Again, in a fast growing association with some offers of delayed billing and prorated dues, revenue is always playing catchup to membership numbers. It's just basic math.

But their credit card isn't charged until their free year or free 6 months runs out. Therefore they are not paid members. From your responses here it's pretty clear you're not willing to disclose how many actual paid members you have.

No, that's not what you asked. Here, I saved your question for you.

How about ending the dispute by telling us exactly how many dues paying members inachi has.

A little more than 11,000 in the U.S. and Canada.

A small percentage of the members who joined recently may not have had their credit card charged yet, but they are dues paying members who have put their credit card on file with us to charge when their dues are due. Delayed billing isn't free.

Delayed billing is a smart accounting strategy for associations who have a really high renewal rate like InterNACHI does.

Again, with the double talk. Pretty good at evading the question. You must also be a politician.

Let's put it this way. How many free or trial memberships do you or your vendor pass out each year?

None. Try to join InterNACHI right now, by any means possible, without putting up your credit card and agreeing to pay. You can't. It's impossible. Yes, some vendors offer ways of joining InterNACHI today without having to pay today, but that is a financing incentive. My gym membership did the same thing back when I joined, but I'm still considered a due-paying member.

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

None. Try to join InterNACHI right now, by any means possible, without putting up your credit card and agreeing to pay. You can't. It's impossible. Yes, some vendors offer ways of joining InterNACHI today without having to pay today, but that is a financing incentive. My gym membership did the same thing back when I joined, but I'm still considered a due-paying member.

.........so, I guess this means that the offer you made in post number 9 is no longer available?? Pity I didn't jump at that opportunity sooner...........Greg

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

........How about this? If you are reading this thread and want to find out for yourself why more than 32,000 inspectors keep renewing their membership in InterNACHI year after year after year, email fastreply@nachi.org and ask for a free 6-month membership as well. No charge. This offer open to everyone reading these words.

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

None. Try to join InterNACHI right now, by any means possible, without putting up your credit card and agreeing to pay. You can't. It's impossible.........

Sounds like Three-card Monte. It's free. It's not free. Its free. It's not free. Where is it free?

like the campaign of Hope and Change. You hope that it will change, but it doesn't....Believe what I say and not what I do....it's the same old, same old. " it's only marketing." not to to be interpenetrated an reality.

Where is it free?

Here.

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

Here.

How many of those "trial memberships" do you and your vendors give out each year? Again, this information is considered "public" due to your IRS filing status. Please provide the information requested.

We don't give out any trial memberships. A trial membership would be a free membership typically followed by an offer to join.

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

We don't give out any trial memberships. A trial membership would be a free membership typically followed by an offer to join.

Therefore Free is NOT FREE. (new to InterNACHI inspectors only please, 6 months free) Yet there is a billing requirement. But you don't have TRIAL memberships, because that would constitute a free membership. Though you say 6 months are free. I like to connect the dots. So your membership is 50% off the first year not 6 months free and then pay the second half if you decide to stay.

Correct, you are a real member when you join under any payment plan. You agree to pay. You put up your credit card. You have to pass our entrance exam. You sign an affidavit. You fulfill our membership requirements. You agree to abide by our Code of Ethics. You can access all our inspector education. You can access all our membership benefits. You get listed on our many inspector search sites. You upload your photo are issued an InterNACHI photo I.D. Etc, etc. You are a real member and we treat you as such.

It's pretty obvious that the majority of nachi's memberships are free or trial memberships since nachi is refusing to disclose the requested information.

Our 2012 dues revenue of 2.4 million, our 2013 dues revenue of 2.7 million and being on track for 3.5 million in dues revenue for 2014 comes mostly from renewals. See Membership Stats - Int'l Association of Certified Home Inspectors (InterNACHI) That page is updated in live time.

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

Our 2012 dues revenue of 2.4 million, our 2013 dues revenue of 2.7 million and being on track for 3.5 million in dues revenue for 2014 comes mostly from renewals.

I never asked where your income came from. Pretty obvious you don't want to admit that thousands of your claimed members have never paid for their membership.

Believe what you want. Perhaps measure InterNACHI in something more quantifiable to you that you can confirm.

Go here Alexa - Actionable Analytics for the Web and compare us with other associations or here InterNACHI Ticker - Int'l Association of Certified Home Inspectors (InterNACHI) or the right column of Become a Home Inspector: Free Inspector Training and Education - InterNACHI or here InterNACHI Membership Stats - InterNACHI or here North American Directory of Inspectors - InterNACHI or here InterNACHI Inspection Leads - InterNACHI or the bottom of InterNACHI Inspection Forum

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

Believe what you want. Perhaps measure InterNACHI in something more quantifiable to you that you can confirm.

Go here Alexa - Actionable Analytics for the Web and compare us with other associations or here InterNACHI Ticker - Int'l Association of Certified Home Inspectors (InterNACHI) or the right column of Become a Home Inspector: Free Inspector Training and Education - InterNACHI or here InterNACHI Membership Stats - InterNACHI or here North American Directory of Inspectors - InterNACHI or here InterNACHI Inspection Leads - InterNACHI or the bottom of InterNACHI Inspection Forum

Again, no answer to the question regarding how many unpaid members you have.

None. Wait, a few chapter heads don't have to pay dues, but other than that, the answer to your question is zero.

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

None. Wait, a few chapter heads don't have to pay dues, but other than that, the answer to your question is zero.

Very interesting, since you don't have chapters affiliated with inachi according to your 990 filing. Nothing but a bunch of lies.

I explained that earlier in this thread (I can find the post if you insist). We use the word "chapter" to describe any group of local members who host regularly-scheduled meetings. They are not separate entities, chartered chapters, or subsidiaries of InterNACHI and do not rise to the IRS's definition of a chapter. Therefore our answer on our tax return is correct.

I don't think it is very professional of you to call me a liar. Especially in light of the fact that you are a member of ASHI, an organization that issue's its highest "certified" professional designation based on the passing of only one minimum-standard test (NHIE) used by many states to licenses newbies fresh out of school.

Llisa,
As The Director of Communications it is expected that you would be able to communicate effectively in a truthful manor. When you take a position such as there are NO ( assuming absolute) free memberships (or similar title) then it is determined as absolute.

Refuting your own statements by redefining the meaning of a Member that is a Chapter Head by your statement , "None. Wait, a few chapter heads don't have to pay dues, but other than that, the answer to your question is zero.", leaves you open to criticism. Instead of liar terms such as fabricator, fabulist, fibber, prevaricator, storyteller may have been used. Though the ultimate meaning or inference that you failed to tell the truth remains the same.

I intemperate your differentiation of some Chapter Heads as to be employees of the company internachi. They are being given "membership" benefits as a function of payment for services provided. As such an employee member I would assume that internachi provides those Chapter Heads with a 1099 for those reimbursed services. So Employees are members of the organization/company and a membership that is not paid for is a perk of that employment. Next we will have to discuss the meaning of "is".

It is disturbing that you seem to, when challenged or feel threatened while defending statements made my yourself, revert to a low form of argument as a method of deflection from a topic. Though I continue to hold out hope that your professionalism and communication skill will develop. I understand that you and those you represent as Director of Communications feel that adolescent rancor and disparaging comments are not only acceptable but actually a function of common discourse for the organization. Sad commentary.

Why we're 16 CMI's given away at the recent Carson Dunlop conference held in Toronto this year?
No other professional body gives away 'professional' designations. Why have some CMI's paid through the nose while others got it for free? Discrepancies! Calls into question the validity, and the public is being misled.

The Director of Communications did not refute the sexist bigoted remarks of her employer wherein he called a lady of another association some ver disturbing names on a public forum.

Lisa do you condone the use of those terms as a woman and as director of communications?

I think you need a Pr company, the branding you try to instil has failed.

Originally Posted by Kevin Wood

No money comes from a Chapter but the opposite does happen where InterNachi will give gifts to help any Chapter.
Any member can make a Chapter.
InterNachi may at times defend there rights to make comments about another Association to protect the eaglets.
An Eagle will strike out to defend by any means it can. Exposing is just one thing needed from time to time and though the choice of words ruffled feathers, at least someone did not get a close to death blow IMO.

After reading this reply, I'm guessing Kevin doesn't have a clue about how anything operates at nacho. But he's trying real hard to get a free lifetime membership if he is voted as member of the year ..

Chapter heads are not employees. No CMIs are free. The applicant may not pay, but someone pays for them.

Now if you could answer my question. Is it really true that ASHI awards its highest "certified" professional designation on the passing of just one minimum-standard exam (NHIE) used by many states to license newbies fresh out of school? I've heard others refer to ASHI as a "diploma mill." Is it true?

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

Chapter heads are not employees. No CMIs are free. The applicant may not pay, but someone pays for them.

Now if you could answer my question. Is it really true that ASHI awards its highest "certified" professional designation on the passing of just one minimum-standard exam (NHIE) used by many states to license newbies fresh out of school? I've heard others refer to ASHI as a "diploma mill." Is it true?

Just a bit of research from the ASHI website will provide the answer.

ASHI Categories

There are three designations of active professional home inspector membership in ASHI®. These ASHI® membership categories are as follows:

ASHI has met the rigorous requirements of the National Commission for Certifying Agencies (NCCA) as a certifying body, therefore it is able to offer the only third-party approved home inspector certification program.

ASHI Certified Inspectors— Inspectors in this category have:
•Passed the National Home Inspector Examination and ASHI's Standards and Ethics module.
•Had inspection reports successfully verified for compliance with ASHI's Standards of Practice.
•Submitted valid proof of performance of at least 250 fee-paid home inspections that meet or exceed the ASHI Standards of Practice.

ASHI Inspector— Inspectors in this category have:
•Passed the National Home Inspector Examination or Valid State Exam approved by the Membership Committee and ASHI's Standards and Ethics module.
•ASHI has verified performance of 75 fee-paid inspections in substantial compliance with the Standards of Practice.
•Had inspection reports successfully verified for compliance with ASHI's Standards of Practice.

ASHI Associates— Inspectors in this category have:
•Just joined ASHI and may be new to the inspection profession or may be a seasoned inspector who has not yet completed ASHI's requirements to move up in membership.

I fail to see where ASHI would be considered a "diploma mill".

From the INACHI website:

To become a certified member, you must:

•Join InterNACHI (see above);

•Pass InterNACHI’s Online Inspector Examination (free and open to everyone now; free to re-take);
•Complete InterNACHI’s online Code of Ethics Course (free to take after joining; take at your own pace); and
•Complete InterNACHI's online Standards of Practice Course (free to take after joining; take at your own pace).
If you have never performed any fee-paid inspections, you must:
•Submit four mock inspection reports to InterNACHI’s Report Review Committee (free service),

Once you've completed the above requirements, you must sign your membership affidavit:

•Sign your affidavit to become a certified member.

From How to Become a Certified Home Inspector - InterNACHI How to Become a Certified Home Inspector - InterNACHI

Lisa, did you realize that Nick profiting from inachi's income is a direct violation of 501c(6) organization rules? Did you realize that providing your membership with free education is also a direct violation of the same rules?

A business league is an association of persons having some common business interest, the purpose of which is to promote such common interest and not to engage in a regular business of a kind ordinarily carried on for profit. Trade associations and professional associations are business leagues. To be exempt, a business league's activities must be devoted to improving business conditions of one or more lines of business as distinguished from performing particular services for individual persons. No part of a business league's net earnings may inure to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual and it may not be organized for profit to engage in an activity ordinarily carried on for profit (even if the business is operated on a cooperative basis or produces only enough income to be self-sustaining). The term line of business generally refers either to an entire industry or to all components of an industry within a geographic area. It does not include a group composed of businesses that market a particular brand within an industry.

Business Leagues

Thanks, lets break it down.

ASHI Associates— Inspectors in this category have:
•Just joined ASHI and may be new to the inspection profession or may be a seasoned inspector who has not yet completed ASHI's requirements to move up in membership.

In other words, this membership level has zero requirements. O.K., maybe it gets better, lets move on.

ASHI Inspector— Inspectors in this category have:
•Passed the National Home Inspector Examination or Valid State Exam approved by the Membership Committee and ASHI's Standards and Ethics module.
•ASHI has verified performance of 75 fee-paid inspections in substantial compliance with the Standards of Practice.
•Had inspection reports successfully verified for compliance with ASHI's Standards of Practice.

A report that is generated to comply with an SOP is meaningless as it says nothing about whether the inspector missed anything or did a good inspection. And nowadays, all inspection reporting forms and software generate SOP-compliant reports. So those requirements are meaningless.

The NHIE is a minimum-standard (EBPHI's words, not mine) test used by many states to license newbies fresh out of school. Anyone who has a license in those states already passed that exam. So that is meaningless.

It appears this membership level is all fluff. O.K., maybe it gets better, lets move on to ASHI's highest "certified" membership level.

ASHI Certified Inspectors— Inspectors in this category have:
•Passed the National Home Inspector Examination and ASHI's Standards and Ethics module.
•Had inspection reports successfully verified for compliance with ASHI's Standards of Practice.
•Submitted valid proof of performance of at least 250 fee-paid home inspections that meet or exceed the ASHI Standards of Practice.

A report that is generated to comply with an SOP is meaningless as it says nothing about whether the inspector missed anything or did a good inspection. And nowadays, all inspection reporting forms and software generate SOP-compliant reports. So those requirements are meaningless.

The NHIE is a minimum-standard (EBPHI's words, not mine) test used by many states to license newbies fresh out of school. Anyone who has a license in those states already passed that exam. So that is meaningless.

So you are confirming that ASHI is a diploma mill?

No Claude is confirming Nachi is a diploma mill! Free memberships for all! Nachi should apply to ICE to see if it can pass the muster. My professional opinion - it could not. Vive la difference!

Originally Posted by Ken Rowe

Lisa, did you realize that Nick profiting from inachi's income is a direct violation of 501c(6) organization rules? Did you realize that providing your membership with free education is also a direct violation of the same rules?

Business Leagues

You must have missed this post Nick.

He does not profit from being a shareholder. He doesn't even own any shares in InterNACHI and never did. He's paid to work. But feel free to take it up with our C.P.A. who is also a tax attorney. I'm neither.

Now back to the issue as to whether ASHi is a diploma mill. When you apply for ASHI's highest "certified" professional designation, do you have to pass the newbie "minimum-standard" NHIE test again (for a second time) if you passed it when you got your inspection license on day one, before you did any inspections? Or can you just point to the fact that you passed it back when you got out of home inspection school, and ASHI accepts that? Does anyone know?

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

Now back to the issue as to whether ASHi is a diploma mill. When you apply for ASHI's highest "certified" professional designation, do you have to pass the newbie "minimum-standard" NHIE test again (for a second time) if you passed it when you got your inspection license on day one, before you did any inspections? Or can you just point to the fact that you passed it back when you got out of home inspection school, and ASHI accepts that? Does anyone know?

What the heck is all this gibberish crap about?

One fact , I have the paper work from you.
On 11/19/2005 Bobbi A Feline took your on-line quiz
For your reference the Unique Session Code that he was told to keep for his records is /was EXPR-0000-0367-93
He got a Congratulations letter on 11/19/2005 from NACHI Online Entrance Exam, stating "we are happy to inform you have passed NACHI'S Online Inspector Exam"
He passed it with a score of 83 in 14 minutes ,
YES that's correct it only took 14 Min.

I think one question that he missed was, what should an inspector do if there are mice in the house?
I believe he picked the option "eat them" instead of calling the rodent control people

We don't have one exam. We use dozens of final exams and hundreds of quizzes. Any association that awards their highest "certified" professional designation based on the passing of only one, minimum-standard test used by many states to license newbies fresh out of school is clearly a diploma mill. In your opinion, is ASHI a diploma mill?

- - - Updated - - -

Imagine if ASHI awarded "certified race car driver" professional designations and the only test you had to pass to be awarded the designation was the driver's test you took when you were 16 years old. LOL! What a joke ASHI is.

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

He does not profit from being a shareholder. He doesn't even own any shares in InterNACHI and never did. He's paid to work.

No part of a business league's net earnings may inure to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual and it may not be organized for profit to engage in an activity ordinarily carried on for profit (even if the business is operated on a cooperative basis or produces only enough income to be self-sustaining).

So are you saying Nick isn't an individual profiting from inachi's earnings? You're saying he's a paid employee? Who hired him, the board of directors? The board consists of two people, one being Nick and both are profiting from inachi's income.

You failed to mention the "free education" for members. This is engaging in an activity ordinarily carried on for profit.

Having taken the ASHI entrance exams I can tell you that there is no comparison to the simplistic Nachi on line tests. But Lisa you nor Nick could never know that since you have never taken them! So save the bull for the naive!

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

We don't have one exam. We use dozens of final exams and hundreds of quizzes. Any association that awards their highest "certified" professional designation based on the passing of only one, minimum-standard test used by many states to license newbies fresh out of school is clearly a diploma mill.
.

Welll.. I guess it depends of the quality of exams . And the qualifications of some of your our so called expert/ certified masters and self anointed nacho qualified teachers.
You sure have a winner with that CMI K. Wood guy from Canada, he's so darn smart he quit coming here to teach us non nachoites


. To provide a honest answer to your question, all a potential new home buyer has to do is look at questions asked , and conversations from new and experienced inspectors on your site.
Then look at inspectors questions and conversations from new and experienced inspectors on this site that haven't taken your online quizzes that are not certified by you..

My guess is an inspector that focus's on asking questions and learning from experienced inspectors on this site will get more jobs from informed buyers, than someone that takes the same online open book quizzes that newbys take to get your instant certifications..

Nacho tests should be on cereal boxes where they belong! Save those box tops, when you've collected a dozen you'll be a certified inspector, but wait, if you collect an additional 5 box tops we'll send you a decoder ring, collect an additional 10 box tops which is redeemable for a free CMI. See back of box for conditions and terms.

Cereal may contain artificial sweeteners, riboflavin, Msg, hydrogenated motor oil, modified palm oil from Bikini atoll ...

Kevin,

1. What reports have you seen of mine? I do not post my reports on line. The copy you are likely referring to is a copy from the Carson Dunlop website.
2. Why do your colleagues think so lowly of you on the Nachi forum?
3. Where did anyone judge your abilities?
4. How many box tops have you collected thus far?

Kevin

1. Describe for us how the ESOP is set up, how it operates and who is on it?
2. How dose the consumer launch a complaint from Ontario?
3. How is the complaint adjudicated?
4. Who enforces the forum rules?
5. Why are cronies (vendors/employees) of Nicks on the CMI board? Do you feel such a board is conflict with it role and mandate given that some of these same persons do not operate under any guidelines when it comes to maintaining discipline, decorum, and professionalism on the Nacho forum? Or why certain individuals can do as they please with no repercussions?

As you can see there are many more questions and Ken Rowe also noted this concern.

- - - Updated - - -

Kevin

1. Describe for us how the ESOP is set up, how it operates and who is on it?
2. How dose the consumer launch a complaint from Ontario?
3. How is the complaint adjudicated?
4. Who enforces the forum rules?
5. Why are cronies (vendors/employees) of Nicks on the CMI board? Do you feel such a board is conflict with it role and mandate given that some of these same persons do not operate under any guidelines when it comes to maintaining discipline, decorum, and professionalism on the Nacho forum? Or why certain individuals can do as they please with no repercussions?
6. Why were 16 CMI's given freely to individuals who attended the CD conference in Toronto recently?

As you can see there are many more questions asked by Ken Rowe and the answers or lack thereof were most revealing.

I don't know very much about the Master Inspector Certification Board. It's a separate organization, one that I don't work for. I do know that no CMIs are free, Nick pays the MICB for any he gives out. He's locking up real estate offices to use CMIs exclusively and needs CMIs in certain areas. As for ESOP, it runs autonomously outside of InterNACHI's staff, so I can't help you with those questions. Sorry.

Important Notices

The Certified Master Inspector® trademark was acquired by the Master Inspector Certification Board (MICB) through funding via private donation. Certified Master Inspector® is both a U.S. and Canadian registered trademark.

While the MICB strives to promote excellence and professionalism in the inspection industry, the selection of an inspector is ultimately a decision for the consumer, and we do not guarantee or warrant any inspection performed by those inspectors listed on this website. Visitors to this website understand and agree that the Master Inspector Certification Board (MICB) is not liable for the alleged acts or omissions of any inspector it promotes, nor may the MICB be held liable for damages allegedly sustained as a result of the acts or omissions of those inspectors, regardless of the legal theories employed. Users of this site agree that the exclusive venue for any litigation against the MICB will be brought in the District Court for Boulder County, Colorado, or the U.S. District Court for the District of Colorado.

Well so much for all the marketing hype. CMI's are on their own. Actually the CMI board could be held liable for a negligent referral since it states in large letters right at the top of the website -

Only the best.

Certified Master Inspectors (CMIs)® are the best inspectors in the world. CMI is a professional designation available to all qualifying inspectors who wish to become Board-Certified by the Master Inspector Certification Board.

All CMIs are experienced, dedicated to education, and have a proven record in the inspection industry.

False advertisement, erroneous statements, contradictory...

The Best.

cmi-the-bestNot everyone can become a Certified Master Inspector®. Hiring a CMI means hiring the best.

Can Professional Associations Be Held Liable in Negligence?

Professions, such as law, accounting and engineering, are self-regulated to some extent by professional associations, which govern and discipline their members and protect the public. In consideration of these responsibilities, it is interesting to ask if a professional association could be held liable for failing to discipline one of its members or for failing to warn the public about the conduct of one of its members.

Few legal authorities in Canada have considered the liability of a professional association to individuals who suffer a loss, economic or otherwise, from a member's negligence. This seems to suggest that, under existing law, individuals would have a difficult time establishing liability against a professional association for failing to discipline or warn about a member. However, the Supreme Court of Canada has endorsed the position that "the categories of negligence are never closed." They have broadened the categories and, with them, broadened when a duty of care may be owed and to whom.
The rationale underlying the establishment of self-governing professions is the protection of the public. It is this rationale, coupled with a professional association's enabling statute, that could engender a private law duty of care being owed by an association.
Most professional associations, under their enabling statute, have the power to license and discipline their members. This power, often joined with an ethical code of conduct, defines a "self-governing" profession. The public is protected by ensuring that only qualified, competent individuals are permitted to practise and that those individuals conform to standards of professional conduct established by rules and bylaws.

Any claim against a professional association for failing to discipline a member or failing to warn about the negligence of a member would be framed in negligence. If the enabling statute imposes a positive duty on the association to investigate or discipline its members, then arguably that association could owe a private law duty of care to a person in the public who has used the member's services. As for any claim in negligence, the person making the claim would have to establish a sufficiently close relationship between the association and himself or herself, such that it was reasonably foreseeable that a careless act or omission by the association could result in damages being suffered by that person. Further, one must weigh any policy reasons or considerations that would limit the scope of the duty and the class of persons to whom it is owed or the damages to which a breach of it may give rise.
It is arguable, in certain circumstances, that an association is akin to a public authority. As such, there are public policy reasons to negate or limit its duty of care because of the potentially indeterminate number of claimants.

As well, the association's disciplinary powers may well be deemed quasi-judicial and therefore exempt from any liability. The enabling statute may include clauses protecting the association from actions brought against it as long as it acts in good faith. The wording of the enabling statute is of critical importance.

It is likely that an association, like any individual or public body, is also subject to a standard of reasonableness. Failing to act at all may be unreasonable. Failing to initiate a review or to discipline a member when the association knows, or ought to know, of his or her negligence or misconduct may also be unreasonable. The facts of each case will obviously affect the reasonableness of the alleged act or omission of the professional association.

Notwithstanding policy defenses, the potential for liability exists in the current negligence climate. Accordingly, it is in an association's best interests to ensure that its statutory obligations are clearly identified and adhered to in carrying out its role as a self-governing body.

For more information on this topic, please consult Bob Hodgins. (Frida Tromans assisted in writing this article.) http://www.singleton.com/lofl20001.cfm#part7

Certified Master Inspectors are the best inspectors in the world.

False advertising, its a subjective statement. By the statements made on the CMI site the disclaimer clearly and unequivocally states/indicates that.

Will you at least come up with a proper defendable statement.

Superlatives such as - tastiest, best, fastest, strongest, superior, minimize, optimize?. The problem with these words is that they instill doubt in the readers because these claims appear unsubstantiated. These words lack power because they are not measurable. Take the word 'superior' for example. What criterion or measurement was used to judge this product as superior and by how much?

Wow. I'm actually kinda' sorry I stumbled into this thread. I feel like I just wasted a bunch of time, but it was similar to going past a car crash... I just couldn't keep from looking. When I was writing my business plan, I did a lot of research into associations. The result of that research was that I joined ASHI, and I'm glad I did, but I also don't have anything against any other association. This thread supports my decision. I don't think I have ever seen such unprofessional behavior as that exhibited by Lisa Endza in this discussion. Grow up. Try enjoying life. Eat from the buffet. You think you work for a good organization. That's good, but to morph that into bashing another organization? My children learned better before getting out of elementary school. I choose not to hate my competition, and I recommend the approach. Good for your heart.

Originally Posted by Kevin Wood

Glad you did not join any Association yet .

Do you even read the post at all?

Originally Posted by Tom Iovanne

The result of that research was that I joined ASHI, and I'm glad I did,

Originally Posted by Kevin Wood

Since you are new here I will make it clear to you that there is no fight in the battle. You speak of who is at fault and without provocation you will find by digging it boil's down to ASHI. This is nothing new either as ASHI still claims they are the oldest Association and have lost a long time back the battle to call themselves the largest. Glad you did not join any Association yet because the only way you see what is going on for sure is be a spy from the inside out. Leaving any Association is not an option without significant scars.
And yes I still feel that if you can't qualify as a CMI you should not be Inspecting.
If you have already surpassed that you need not worry anyways.

Yo Kevin, do you listen to your customers, and your inspector students the same way you do to other posters on this site?
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe he stated he decided to join ASHI.

I'm certain he may change his mind, and strive to be a CMI as soon as he can raise a $1000 bucks to pay nicki to get that title to be like you after reading your opinions

Originally Posted by Kevin Wood

You are behind in your thinking as it $2500.00 and will go up. As for Nick making money I highly doubt it since he has spent a great deal to get this going. Don't forget that it is not part of InterNachi either and as Lisa pointed out she does not know the ins and outs of CMI.
What some are failing to realize is this is a one time payment only so money is needed to maintain the website and many other free things added to be CMI. There is no sweat off my back for those that don't join I assure you.
Sorry I realize he joined the wrong group. Oh well you can't win them all.

Apparently you're not partial to reading. Nick makes hundreds of thousands of dollars a year from inachi and so does the other director. It's right there in the tax returns posted previously in this thread. Also in the tax return is CMI which is listed as a subsidiary of inachi, directly opposite of what Lisa says. I ask you not to believe Lisa, Nick, or me. Read it for yourself. The International Association of Certified Home Inspector, Inc.'s (InterNACHI) annual tax exempt status. - InterNACHI

You can also see by what Lisa has posted and what she refuses to post that a large portion of inachi's members don't pay a cent. Thousands of free or "trial" memberships are given out each year...and they count these in their membership totals. That's the only reason inachi is the largest association. Is that something to be proud of?

Honestly, I couldn't care less if an inspector is associated with ASHI, inachi, nahi or any association. But I hate seeing anyone being lead blindly by deceit, lies and corruption. Spend the time and do your own research instead of drinking Jim Jone's Koolaid.

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

Cirtified Master Inspectors are the best inspectors in the world...

Originally Posted by Kevin Wood

......Don't forget that it is not part of InterNachi either and as Lisa pointed out she does not know the ins and outs of CMI......

The cmi title is derived from organization membership from my understanding. Separating one from the other is tenuous. Also it is curious that a Director of Communications of an organization would not know the in and outs of the program. Though really not to surprising. Since she is the first to beat the drum without actually knowing the tune. Yet she will fain ignorance when suited on many topics. Which does reflect on the organization that is represented.

Kevin,
Tom Iovanne expressed a common observation. Attempting to disparage his comments does you no service especialy since you seem to fail a comprehension from reading his comments. You seem to skip over details in a zealous fever for an attempt to argue your position. Tom is only new as a active participant to this thread. In reality he is no newer than you Kevin to the forum. But possibly a little more insightful.

There is some validity in your citing the different spelling of your organizations name when referenced by many in this forum. I can see that it is disparaging to you and others in your organization. Yet it may be only done so that your organization does not reap the benefit from frequency of use in web searches and ranking for occurrences. Which is my assumption, as to the reasons behind the frequency of many of your Director of Communications postings. Or maybe the different spelling is just a little to your sensitivity.
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It is also interesting that both Kevin and Lisa only seem to surface in this forum and none other, with the exception of their own organization. Does make you wounder a bit as to the significance or motivation. ...
Just an observation.

Kevin,
Please don't take this the wrong way, please. Is French your first language?

Est votre première langue français?

It is my opinion that the quality of inspections and reports has little or nothing to do with any association. It is the individual, his or her attitude, aptitude, intelligence, desire to learn, and training. There are many excellent inspectors who belong to no organization. Anyone who is out to just make a buck will always be the one to produce poor results. And yes, they may belong to ASHI, iNACHI, NAHI, or even be a CMI. They are the same people who don't mind lying or stretching the truth if it can take in another buck.

Liza - Please take and pass the NHIE. I'm sure Nick will pay for it. Then take the iNACHI online exam. Only then will any comparisons you may make have any meaning to those of who have.

Respectfully,