Thread: Its getting ugly NOW!!!

I had a client find me on the Internet. She set the inspection and her agent open the door and then split. all is good just me and the buyer.

At the end of the inspection I Inform the Client that the foundation has some bad problems and the Electrical system is not in safe.

So now the Client is backing out of the home REO. She is not wanting her boyfriend to be working on the house all the time. many other problems.

So today I get a call from her agent saying that I'm not aloud to talk to the client ---- What...

And she is going to make up a cost for the repairs to give to the bank as they are out of time and can't get a contractor out in time to put cost together...

Is it not time to get the agents out of the way once and for all... How long will inspectors put up with this crap.

I would like to see a law stating.

1. Real Estate agent can not pick the inspector or set up the inspection for the client. Conflict of interest.
2. Real Estate agent can not Intimidate inspector or service people.
3. Real Estate agent can not provide a list of inspectors or service people.

What do you think ? Any other ideas?

Best

Ron

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I don't know what to tell you Ron

As far as the Realtors being in the mix at all...They already are before you are.

I am sure the Realtor said you were a piece of **** and did not know what you were talking about. I have had similar experiences in the past but what I am fighting with now is the Realtors giving their client *their* facts of what a home inspection should cost.

Sat on the backside mast of the past 2 weeks due to that fact. I have had several calls that wanted no discussion...just a quote. It used to be "How much do you charge for a home inspection". Now it is "I am just calling for a quote on a home inspection". This is straight from the Realtors "call around for several quotes and you can get a pretty cheap inspection". That is from several callers telling me their Realtor told them to call around and shop for the cheapest price. The Realtors are seeing so many inspectors out there with 200 dollar inspections the Realtors are telling their client just that "it should not cost more than 200 for an inspection". Realtors also believe we "make way to much money for the short time in the home" I have had several lately telling me that I am spending way to much time at the inspection (3 to 4 hours) and I am inconveniencing their sellers. "I had no idea that the inspection would last that long"...."My inspector is in and out in a couple of hours with the report in the clients hand"

I hear ya, Ron. I think some states (eg. Massachusetts) already do #1 and 3.

I thought Massachusettes was the only state. I'd like to see realtor referrals go away altogether as well but I have neither the time nor the inclination to take up the cause.

Originally Posted by Nick Ostrowski

I thought Massachusettes was the only state. I'd like to see realtor referrals go away altogether as well but I have neither the time nor the inclination to take up the cause.

I'm going to see what I can do in my area. by talking to my State Rep...

The economy is having a big effect on agents in my area anyway... They are hurting and I understand but this game needs to stop... If all inspector would just stop working for agent and only book and inspection with the client we could control this kind of crap...

Best

Ron

Is she not your "client" also? I would call the agents broker and have a chat with him/her. The agent no longer has her clients best interest in mind, out for the almighty dollar.

Chuck

I agree with Chuck. But, after speaking with her broker I'd also file a complaint with your local board of realtors.

Ron,

Here in Washington State the Realtors get fined 5K for leaving a client or inspector unattended at a residence. Maybe the Multiple Listing Service in your area has similar rules that you may not be aware of. Maybe his/her broker doesn't know you were left unattended with the client at the inspection. Calling the board of realtors is definitely a step in the right direction and the agent's broker will know then!

Good Luck Ron.

Ron,


One more thing, at the end of the inspection, I print the report right there for the client and the agent, go over all the photos with them, then I make notes all throughout the client's copy pointing out the WDO issues, the important / safety / costly repair issues and the DIY after you move in issues - I also make sure the client knows these notes are just my opinion and it is up to them to pick and choose what issues they want addressed/repaired. I have never had a complaint for being too thorough. I haven't lost too many agents because of thoroughness either. The ones I have lost I don't want to work with anyway - htey're just going through the motions to get a paycheck and they do not have their clients' best interests at heart.

Let's hope business is better for everyone this year - Jim

There are nooo rules in Utah and I love it. Yeah you have a few bad apples but you just avoid them. If bureaucracy gets in the way and prohibits referrals I would be out of business in a month.

Originally Posted by Ron Bibler

I would like to see a law stating.

1. Real Estate agent can not pick the inspector or set up the inspection for the client. Conflict of interest.
2. Real Estate agent can not Intimidate inspector or service people.
3. Real Estate agent can not provide a list of inspectors or service people.

1. I get most of my work from agent referrals. Heck, I get together with some of them outside of work. As long as the inspector is honest and gives each inspection 100% I don't see any issue with it. The agents who refer me also appreciate a good inspection. It's protection for them and the buyers.

2. The inspector can only be intimidated by an agent if the inspector allows the intimidation. I've had agents call me after inspections and demand I change the report to reflect the roof was in good condition when I had reported it needed immediate replacement or they never use me again. I wasn't intimidated at all. My response was, "I don't care if you use me again. The roof is shot and needs to be replaced".

I did an inspection today for an agent I ride motorcycles with. A short sale property that Joe Homeowner decided to remodel himself. I called out all of the wiring in the garage, all of the wiring in the "work in progress" finished basement, the electric panel, the high CO on the furnace, mold in the basement and attic and a rash of other expensive repairs. 66 page report in all. And the buyer was a 25 year old female first time home buyer. I know that agent will recommend me again.

3. I wish I was on every list every agent handed out in my area. My E&O insurance has $2 million coverage for agents who refer me.

I Must agree with Ken

Originally Posted by Jim Hintz

Ron,

Here in Washington State the Realtors get fined 5K for leaving a client or inspector unattended at a residence. Maybe the Multiple Listing Service in your area has similar rules that you may not be aware of. Maybe his/her broker doesn't know you were left unattended with the client at the inspection. Calling the board of realtors is definitely a step in the right direction and the agent's broker will know then!

Good Luck Ron.

Why on Earth can you not be alone in a home while performing an inspection. To literally have to have a Realtor there....what is the reasoning behind that. A home inspector is an independent contractor. He more than likely has far more insurance than a Real Estate Agent. If he is not insured against damages, missing inspection items, theft, then I am not sure what he is doing there at all. I for one do not want anyone there and do not want to be baby sitted by anyone, including my client.

As far as being left alone with your client ???????????????????????? What would the reasoning be behind not being left alone with *YOUR* client. That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. The Realtor should have absolutely nothing to do with the inspection at all. There is no reason what so ever to be involved even if they are the referring agent. They are not doing the inspection. They are not scheduling the inspection...you are. They have nothing to do with how you inspect or what goes into your report. There should be absolute zero outside influence with your inspection and reporting of your findings....including your client. I even tell my clients that they have no influence what so ever in my inspection methods and what goes into my report.

A 5000 dollar fine to a Realtor if they are not bay sitting me..............Insane.

The more rules you make the more rules you have to make for those rules. The more you make for those rules the deeper it gets. It does not stop. I personally believe that there should be absolutely no one with the exception of the inspector at the inspection. Bring the client and maybe the clients Realtor in the end of the inspection where everyone is accounted for, for the walk thru, finish up and you all leave. In 99 percent of the cases there is no buyers or sellers agents at *MY* inspections. At most inspections the client is only there for a half hour in the end. On rare occasions there may be a seller at the home.

Why do I highlight *MY* inspection. I do not get paid until I am done with the inspection. My client is just paying me for a report on the findings in that home I am inspecting. So until I am done it is an inspection that I scheduled and am doing on that home. If no one pays me to get a report then the inspection and report is mine and mine alone. There need not be anyone at the inspection.

If you check the records of home inspectors and Realtors you will find that we are far more trust worthy.

Sure, you get your referrals from the agents now, because that's the status quo. The status quo is broken in most states. It's difficult for most people to see how something different might also be better. Upton Sinclair said it best, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." Perhaps the agents DO understand it though, in which case they're just lying crooks.

Consider if it were the lender providing the referrals, rather than the agent. After all, the lender has a vested interest in the inspection being as thorough and detailed as possible. And if you're an honest, thorough inspector that is able to detect value-altering defects, you are potentially saving the buyer and lender thousands of dollars. Good inspectors will get referrals more often, bad inspectors will hopefully find another line of work.

And it doesn't need to entail additional bureaucracy either. All it takes is a state being willing to pass a law prohibiting real estate agents from making inspection referrals in a transaction unless acting exclusively as a buyer's agent. See Truth About Real Estate Agent Referred Home Inspectors for a quick summation of the argument.

Most of the time, not all, but most, when bureaucracy gets involved things get worse rather then better. Ex, just ask the appraisers. AMG's have been a disaster around here.

I like your suggestions Ron.

If agents are going to help clients find inspectors, they should not suggest specific ones. I don't see a problem with agents providing or directing clients to a list that includes all licensed and qualified inspectors.

Again, they should not highlight specifics.

Originally Posted by Ted Menelly

I personally believe that there should be absolutely no one with the exception of the inspector at the inspection.

It's funny how things are different like this in other areas of the country. Buyers around here want to be at the inspection and want to ask questions.

Originally Posted by Nick Ostrowski

It's funny how things are different like this in other areas of the country. Buyers around here want to be at the inspection and want to ask questions.

Wanting to ask questions.

Well then. I guess they should let you actually get the inspection done and then they can ask all the questions at once. They are not going to learn anymore hanging with you on the entire inspection than they will in a thorough 1/2 walk around going over everything in the home uninterrupted.

Its a mind set. In this area people actually believe that you can do a better job for them uninterrupted.

The mind set comes from inspectors over the decades telling the buyers that they must be there from beginning till end just so they can get there useless contract signed. Lets face it. If you miss a 10,000 in foundation repairs do you really think having them there the entire time is going to keep you from paying for it...contract or not.

I am sure you tell them that you are going to be there at 8:30 am so that is when they need to be there. More often than not most clients are already told by there Realtors that it is best to come in the end portion of the inspection around here. I am sure your Realtors in your area are telling the clients that they should be there the entire time.

Like said. It is a mind set, set in motion by the norm in your area and more then likely the Realtor. If explained to them that you can do much better if left to do the inspection I doubt the clients would be wanting to be there the entire time. It is, after all, to their best interest, Isn't that why they are having a home inspection done, for their best interest. Some folks actually believe that you will do a better job if they are there. Sorry, I will never be sold on that. Walk, talk, inspect, walk, talk, inspect, explain, walk some more, talk some more, explain. Sorry. I am not buying that at all being in the best interest for your client. All it does is give them a slow motion tour of the home...That is not why you are there.

It has become a mind set around here to call "just for a quote" so they can get the cheapest inspection. This is actually told to them by the Realtor.

"There are many good inspectors out there and you should call around for a quote to get the least expensive one. All the inspectors are scrambling for work. You can save a lot of money" This is an instilled mind set.

If having the client come in at the end works for you so you can do a quick recap, good. I don't mind having my client there and I don't mind chatting with them as I go. I get to know them, they get to know me, we can normally find something in common to discuss, and it helps get me referrals from them in the future.

Actually, I really don't like it when the client shows up at the end and I have to basically go through the entire inspection all over again. There are invariably some details I will not remember to discuss but will appear in their report which will make them call or e-mail me with follow-up questions. I'd rather have them there with me but if they want to float off during the inspection and do or look at other things, that's fine too. I can still get my job done either way.

Why would any inspector want his business and income tied to a Real Estate agent.

This is a conflict of interest all ways has been and always will be...

I get lots of work from agents always have. 75% of these clowns are off the deep end... This economy is having an effect on the industry... If you do not see it open your eyes...

Its game over for me and real estate agents... I don't need them my pest control company has all the work I need... Doing inspection for me is going to change.

I'm going to have a sit down with my state Rep. and point these thing out. the buyers are being rip off. agent are covering up facts. I have a lot of good agent I have been working for for years. But I would like to see them all out of the way and let me work with the buyer as my client and not giving control to a Real Estate agent...

Say this to your client on your next inspection in front of a Real Estate agent

Mr Client.. Always fix everything before you close escrow

Watch the agent freak out...... This is in the best interest of the client...its true.

Should they get everything fix before the close of escrow? yes or no ?

Whats wrong in saying that...

Best

Ron

Yes Ron

I agree

Having everything fixed before closing or at the least money set aside for repairs is in the best interest of the clients.

Will that ever happen? A perfect existing home? Maybe sometimes but the reality is that there is give and take.

Back to your statement about the Realtors expression.

Watch the Realtor drop dead on the floor when you say that everything should be fixed that you find. That of course is the best interest to your client. Not the best interest to the Realtor but at the same time a bit unrealistic

I say to my clients when asked the question "What should I ask to get fixed ?"

My answer would be "Nothing" "Everything" "Some things" "That is completely up to you and what you feel comfortable with."

I also tell them that absolutely "no one including them has to fix anything I find and put into my report." "My findings are just that...My findings. It is completely up to you as to how you handle the information."

,

I doubt very much that a law will get passed which keeps a Realtor out of the process - Usually, The Selling Realtor lets you into the residence to do your inspection, a Listing Realtor represents and is responsible to the owner/seller. It is highly unlikely that some owner who is out of town at the time, will let some inspector have a "free-run" through their "furnished" residence with all their valuables and private things still in it.
I have no problem being left unattended in a vacant residence, I do have a problem being left unattended in an occupied residence and the potential of being accused of stealing something that the seller lost at some other place and time. It's called C.Y.A.

In *MY* Reports, I use this comment most of the time. "Replacement/Correction of all affected components, visible and underlying, by a licensed and qualified contractor prior to purchase recommended." That way, once someone starts digging into something,for example replacing a roof, if they find damaged sheathing for example, "they're on the hook" to correct/replace that too according to the report. Then when you end up in court and your attorney asks the claimant "after you followed the instructions/recommendations in the inspection report, what were your results?" Judge dismisses the claim and you are awarded your counterclaim for costs and fees.

Whatever the client and agents do with the information after receiving the report is up to them. Some agents transcribe the issues on the report and the meanings gets lost in translation, but that's not my problem or concern.

I have met some nice Realtors over the years, and some not so ethical Realtors. The unethical ones eventually meet their demise, sometimes just not soon enough.

Originally Posted by Ted Menelly

I say to my clients when asked the question "What should I ask to get fixed ?"

My answer would be "Nothing" "Everything" "Some things" "That is completely up to you and what you feel comfortable with."

I also tell them that absolutely "no one including them has to fix anything I find and put into my report." "My findings are just that...My findings. It is completely up to you as to how you handle the information."

Ted... Agents keep you from your clients so you can't say things... I'm from the old school 25 years back. everything was fix before the close of escrow. it was all inspected and certified... and a statement of this fact was given to the buyer... Sleep good at night... that was the deal. and every one knew it... Its only that some want it now ( REAL ESTATE AGENTS ) and then thats what they get ( IT NOW! ) What is the cost going to be to complete the work at hand... unknown factor... the buyer is in the dark and the agent is hiding these fact... I for one will not do that to ( MY CLIENT ) If an agent brings me a client. thank you Mr agent. Now they are my Client. Mr.. client have everything fix before the close of escrow. this is in your best intrest...

This condition could cost $ 10K $20k Unknown are you up for that kind of a cost.

Look at it this way. If it was a law suit. to what degree would the cost run to fix everything and to what what degree would an attorney inflate the cost of repairs?

These are now our Clients. and also some one that can sue us if we do not do our job?

How do some agents keep you from the Client.
The (Client is a no show only the agent )

Best

Ron

I never advise anyone to have anything repaired before or after the closing. The real estate transaction is none of my business. I'm hired to inspect the home and report my findings. Whether or not they choose to have repairs done isn't any of my business.

If I find a hole in the roof I'll call it out for immediate repairs or replacement, but I'll never tell them to have the seller pay for it or to make sure it's done before they close on the property. That is between the clients and their agent. For all I know my client may be a roofer and the repair is easy and inexpensive for them. As I said, the real estate transaction isn't any of my business. That's one of the reasons I don't charge according to what my clients are paying for the house.

I do the inspection, tell them what's what, and what they do with that information is up to them. That's one of the reasons why I get along with the agents who refer me. I don't try to do their job and they don't try to do mine.

Ron,
I want my business tied to the agent. I am in a resort town and it is not realistic to market the entire country to get business. It is much easier to market to the agent and build a relationship. If they try to influence the inspection, that is the type of relationship you avoid.

Originally Posted by mathew stouffer

Ron,
I want my business tied to the agent. I am in a resort town and it is not realistic to market the entire country to get business. It is much easier to market to the agent and build a relationship. If they try to influence the inspection, that is the type of relationship you avoid.

I understand what you are saying...

Either way with or with the agent we will get our work... What I'm after is getting the agents out of the way so we can deal directly with the buyer. what you are saying is you want your business and sales under the control of how many agent you can get to call and use you ? why ?

If they don't let you in the game then your dead. Now I don't need these clowns My pest control company has been around for a long time. We do have one HI Inspection company in my area that gets most of the Home inspection work. because of the agents only use them... there inspection are a blow and go in and out each inspector will do 3 a day.

Now if the agent were out of the game that company would take a big hit...

and the little guys would pick up more inspection... I know for a fact if the agents were out of the game the quality of the inspection would go up.

As long as the agents are in the game inspectors will if nothing Else look like they cave to the agents.

Best

Ron

Originally Posted by Ron Bibler

what you are saying is want you business and sales under the control of how many agent you can get to call and use you ? why ?

Ron,

Could you translate that sentence into English for me please?

Ron,
The agent will never determine the quality of my inspection.. It's my ass on the line when the sh%t hits the fan, not theirs. I write everything up and the agents I work with know this. It's one of the reasons I am always asking questions on this site If you are in a big city you can get away with out the agents, but in my area it would be impossible

Mathew, but why not substitute "lender" and/or "lawyer" for agent? Then you would still have relationships that lead to referrals without fear of your doing too good a job "killing the deal" and drying up your referral stream.

Instead of an agent telling a buyer, "Mathew Stouffer? Don't use him, he's a deal killer" you would have a real estate lawyer or lender saying, "here's a list of the agents we recommend because they're very thorough. Mathew Stouffer is a little more expensive than the others, but he consistently catches things some other inspectors miss."

Some markets may be more ready for this than others, but the Commonwealth of Massachusetts is already doing this and I think they're still inspecting real estate around here. Even on Martha's Vineyard, which is about as close to "resort town" as we get around these parts, they have home inspectors that do a good job and get plenty of referrals.

Originally Posted by Bruce Breedlove

Ron,

Could you translate that sentence into English for me please?

What you are saying is you want your business and sales under the control of how many agent you can get to call and use you ?

I talk funny some times...

Best

Ron

Mat I know you are a good inspector and your heart is in the right place.

But the fact stands As long as the agents control the game inspectors will if nothing Else it look like they cave to the agents.

Best

Ron

Originally Posted by Ron Bibler

I understand what you are saying...

What I'm after is getting the agents out of the way so we can deal directly with the buyer.

I don't understand how the agents are in your way so you can't deal with your clients directly.

Here's a typical scenario for me after marketing to an agent. The agent gives my information to the buyer. They choose me to do the inspection. Either the agent or client calls my office to schedule the inspection. My office gets the house information, lockbox codes, etc by calling the listing agent. I go do the inspection at the appointed time. Most of the time the clients are there. Half the time the agents are there also, but most of that time the agent shows up at the end. I go over the report with both the client and agent and send them both copies via email as long as the client agrees to release a copy to the agent. I give the client my card and ask them to call me if they have any questions or concerns. The clients write me a check, then I go home.

The agents never come between me and my clients, even if the agent referred them. You must be doing something different.

Ken,My situation is similar. Agent calls and books the inspection. I do it and 70 to 80 percent of the time I never even here from the client or agent. It's great, and that's when I like it the way it is. Sometimes I get a question or two but for the most part the report is easy to understand. If either party does not like the end result, so be it.

Originally Posted by mathew stouffer

Ken,My situation is similar. Agent calls and books the inspection. I do it and 70 to 80 percent of the time I never even here from the client or agent. It's great, and that's when I like it the way it is. Sometimes I get a question or two but for the most part the report is easy to understand. If either party does not like the end result, so be it.

Same for me... The only problem I see in my area is the agents are getting in the way all the time... Trying to control information or any contact with the buyer. Ive been working with agent for 30 plus years and this last year they are just going over the top with these control issue. You may not have this problem but we are in my area.

Best

Ron

Originally Posted by Ron Bibler

And she is going to make up a cost for the repairs to give to the bank as they are out of time and can't get a contractor out in time to put cost together...


Ron

Ron, are the cost for repair fugures she plans on giving to the bank being done in a manner that would make the bank think they are part of the report and actually put together by you?

Here's a question: Does anyone think that the recent influx of inexperienced realtors, trying to "cash in" on the glut of homes on the market (regardless of how they're actually moving in the area) is part of the problem?
If so...shouldn't it be our goal to educate them on the importance of a good home inspection? If they actually plan on making a legitimate career out of real estate, they want the best inspector out there.
Just my $0.02...

Originally Posted by Nick Ostrowski

Ron, are the cost for repair fugures she plans on giving to the bank being done in a manner that would make the bank think they are part of the report and actually put together by you?

I think thats what she was saying...

Helping the client is the most important things for me. what you have with agent directing inspection on properties is not in the best of the client.
like the fox in charge of the hen house... Some agents are very good and always do the right thing. I see a lot more bad ones then good ones...
And I'm always looking for the good in people...

Best

Ron

Ron, You can't allow the agent to take control of the inspection. The agent is only the referring person. The client is yours and the inspection is yours. Tell them the way it is, stick to your guns.

Casey, Agents around here have been dropping like flies for the past 4 years. 5 years ago we had 15,000 real estate agents in the Minneapolis / St Paul area. Last I heard it was down to about 8,000. The latest market analysis showed less than 20,000 homes were on the market here. It hasn't been below 20,000 in the past 10 years.

I don't know what experiences you others may have had but I have not seen any agents controlling the inspections.
We have realtor referrals all the time and we also market to agents in our area. I have had some agents ask, some even demand, that I change, soften, alter, lie or whatever an inspection report. I have never changed a report - even when it was discovered that I made an error or omission, the report was not changed - only an addendum added to explain the situation.
Some of the agents of this type have moved on to the buck ninety five inspectors and some have stuck with us.
Realtors are part of the mix and will always be there somewhere. As for me I am loyal to MY PROFESSION and I (as well as our states laws) control the inspection. I do what needs to get done. I do not omit anything I see. If the roof is "a piece of crap" I don't say that but I do list all the reasons the phrase came to mind in the first place.
Our reports also state that all repairs should be done by licensed contractors before closing but that rarely happens and its no concern of mine.

Ken,
I know many folks have gotten out of real estate, but it seems like every day, I come across an old friend or meet someone that's taking the classes...and they still give me a line about how great things are looking.
On one side, it's probably a good time to get in; things will get better, and having some experience/being established before the insanely busy time is a good idea.
But I'm curious as to who is feeding them the line of how great things are still!

Ron,
Yeah I know what you mean, it sucks when the agent pulls that stuff. Fortunately my situation is a little different. 95 percent of the agents I deal with don't do that because they are dealing with multi million dollar homes and thankfully they are experienced. Sounds like you need to lay the smack down on some of these guys

Most of the agents i work with fine people.

Best

Ron