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  1. #1
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    Default Why aren't all inspectors inspecting/testing this?

    During a discussion on a social media site, the issue was broached why aren't all inspectors inspecting for a specific issue. The poster felt it is simple to test for with relatively inexpensive equipment and provides a good measure of basic safety in the home. The test exceeds most/all SOPs.

    Other inspectors are not inspecting, operating, or testing for the same things you are. They are spending less time and charging less. But many inspectors don't know what they don't know so don't where to look for information about what they don't know.

    What are some of the areas that you believe inspectors should be inspecting, testing, or operating that may be outside the SOP but are simple and meaningful tests that you think all or better inspectors should be doing?

    Example: Are you testing, inspecting, operating AFCI breakers? How do you test, inspect, or operate and why do you think your method it is a valid test? Are there situations that prevent you or you choose not to test, inspect, or operate?

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Why aren't all inspectors inspecting/testing this?

    I test and examine appliances for proper operation and hookup.
    Not in SOP.

    I also show clients how to operate the fireplaces and explain proper use.


  3. #3

    Default Re: Why aren't all inspectors inspecting/testing this?

    Manually operate garage bay doors that have automatic openers installed. I was not trained to do so, but started as soon as I went off on my own.

    It's amazing how many failed / out of adjustment springs I find.


  4. #4
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    Default Re: Why aren't all inspectors inspecting/testing this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Ramsey View Post
    During a discussion on a social media site, the issue was broached why aren't all inspectors inspecting for a specific issue. The poster felt it is simple to test for with relatively inexpensive equipment and provides a good measure of basic safety in the home. The test exceeds most/all SOPs.

    Other inspectors are not inspecting, operating, or testing for the same things you are. They are spending less time and charging less. But many inspectors don't know what they don't know so don't where to look for information about what they don't know.

    What are some of the areas that you believe inspectors should be inspecting, testing, or operating that may be outside the SOP but are simple and meaningful tests that you think all or better inspectors should be doing?

    Example: Are you testing, inspecting, operating AFCI breakers? How do you test, inspect, or operate and why do you think your method it is a valid test? Are there situations that prevent you or you choose not to test, inspect, or operate?
    Hello Bruce,
    Good questions!

    A good home inspector follows the Standards of Practice by utilizing a protocol that insures compliance. That is easily said, but achiving the objective is what majes training, field practice and continuing education so very important. The majority of home inspectors voluntarily choose to exceed the SOP in order to best represent his or her client and to educate the client as to what is present, how it works and how to maintain the home. While the SOP do not specifically state it, we home inspectors are perforing a safety inspection, and safety should always be our primary focus.

    Home inspectors are not required to insert any instruments to check GFCI's & AFCI's, all that is required it to "push the test button." Let me warn you however, that your first protocol on arrival is to ASK IF THERE ARE ANY COMPUTERS RUNNING IN THE HOME! Explain that you may be tripping a circuit and don't want the owner to loose any data. Believe me this protocol is important and I once tested a AFCI not knowing that the owner had a home office. He lost data and rightfully was angy. We learn from our mistakes.

    Regards,
    Bob Mulloy
    ASHI-NE Chapter Education Chairman
    Instructor MA Home Inspector Trainee Program


  5. #5
    Dave Burch1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why aren't all inspectors inspecting/testing this?

    Since I have become more and more involved in the energy audit work and since every audit I conduct includes a test for backdrafting, spillage and carbon monoxide on each fossile fuel appliance it was not a large leap to include the same testing in my home inspections. It adds a few minutes, but I sleep better knowing that I have tested these areas. I have found a few homes that had dangerous conditions. These test definately exceed the SOP's and Standards.


  6. #6
    William Brady's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why aren't all inspectors inspecting/testing this?

    I for one like to stick to the Standards. Why because I have noticed here and in the field that HI sometimes go way beyond the Standards. You know the code thing. I agree we are really safety inspectors. I feel good when I know the home is safe. The other thing is that I do not want to reinvent the wheel. The standards were written for good reasons so why do I want to go beyond. I do go beyond but try to stay close. The standards call for a time period for doing an inspection and if things are added then the time to complete it gets longer. Well maybe the standards don't call the time but there is a time recommended.

    I also have a problem with HI who always refer things to the HVAC guys etc. I just saw an inspection that called for s shrink crack on the garage floor to be look at by an engineer. I sometimes wonder what the heck people are paying us for if we are not making the good decisions and deferring things all over the place. We are not being paid to be the electrican, plumber, roofer ect.

    Just one more thing. I do not profess to be an expert on all things and I like the fact that we look at the big picture and stay away from answering all the questions. I like to let the carpenters do their work and I will just do mine.


  7. #7
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    Default Re: Why aren't all inspectors inspecting/testing this?

    Standards vary all across the country and many are poorly understood.

    Here is a list of items required in some SOP's but not others with some other items that many good inspectors do anyway.


    Check the garage door opener force reverse for reversal due to a reasonable applied force. (not to be confused with the 2x4 entrapment test) Required in NC

    Run the jets on an indoor spa tub. (not required in NC, only drainage and flow required)

    Move insulation at certain high risk areas to look for water damage (required in NC)

    Report damaged window screens (required in SC)

    Report maintenance issues (required in SC)

    Check basic appliance functions. Required in NC and SC

    Test AFCI breakers (not required in NC)

    Check the interior of HVAC disconnect boxes for loose/burnt wires.

    Force the thermostat on for attic vents when temperature permits (required in NC)

    Raise the float in sump pumps to see if it will run.

    Check floor system wood with a moisture meter to see if it is in the rotting stage.

    Check the emergency heat mode on heat pumps to see if the kit was installed and actually working.

    Check under the range to see if the anti tip bracket is present.

    Walk back and forth to see if 3-way and 4-way switches actually work in several different positions.

    Check to see if exterior door deadbolts can be properly and fully engaged with the door fully closed and sealed.

    Last edited by Bruce King; 09-06-2010 at 08:05 AM.
    Bruce King, B.A. King Home Inspections, LLC
    www.BAKingHomeInspections.com
    Certified Master Inspector, Independent Inspectorwww.IndependentInspectors.org

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    Default Re: Why aren't all inspectors inspecting/testing this?

    Wow, I thought this was going to be a good thread........

    Anyone have anything to add?

    Bruce King, B.A. King Home Inspections, LLC
    www.BAKingHomeInspections.com
    Certified Master Inspector, Independent Inspectorwww.IndependentInspectors.org

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    Default Re: Why aren't all inspectors inspecting/testing this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce King View Post
    Wow, I thought this was going to be a good thread........

    Anyone have anything to add?
    Garage Door Automatic reversing. There is a Federal mandate that defines automatic reversing of garage doors, the auxiliary sensor, the location of the control switch, and safety label location. Every opener manufacturer includes the material and information in the installation package that comes with residential automatic garage door openers. I carry a 1 x 1.5 x 6" block of wood to use in the tests.

    Very seldom is everything in place and installed in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions and therefore the Federal mandate. On existing homes up for resale, I only advise clients of the switch location and label issues. BUT - on new home inspections, I'll ping the builder every time. I've even told them ahead of time that I would and why.

    I have a issue with the mandate. The control switch is supposed to be placed no closer than 5 feet from the nearest standable surface. Okay, great. But, can't that rule easily conflict with the ADA? How about little people? Just goes to show that one must be aware of those factors and use a little common sense when it comes to placement of the switch.

    The above statements are expressed solely as my opinion and in all probability will conflict with someone else's.
    Stu, Fredericksburg VA

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    Default Re: Why aren't all inspectors inspecting/testing this?

    Quote Originally Posted by William Brady View Post
    I for one like to stick to the Standards. Why because I have noticed here and in the field that HI sometimes go way beyond the Standards.

    I sometimes wonder what the heck people are paying us for if we are not making the good decisions ....
    I agree ... I sometimes wonder what the heck people are paying us for is we just stick to the absolute minimums in the SOP, I certainly cannot imagine that an HI would try to charge anything but the minimum for that minimum inspection.

    Doing more is good for your client.

    Doing more leads to getting paid more (or doing more inspections, which is one way of getting paid more, but not the way I was referring to).

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

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    Default Re: Why aren't all inspectors inspecting/testing this?

    There are so many answers to this question. Some are lazy, inexperienced, don't know, don't care, inconsistent training, interpretation, on and on. The reasons are almost endless.
    Knowing what I know, if I followed the SOP or only what I was taught in licensing class, I'd consider myself a fairly crappy inspector.
    I view my job as providing information about a particular home to the client. For me that comprises a few major things; existing conditions, post purchase costs and safety concerns.
    This mornings HI, I pulled out the stove to check for the anti-tip, the realter asked me what I was doing. He had never seen another HI do it. How pathetic is that. I was stunned, it was actually installed. The point though is I'd rather take the 1 minute to check and know that the stove isn't going to fall on Grandma this Thanksgiving. I look for safety issues because it is part of my background. Others may not even consider safety in their thinking.
    Besides there's no room for a good inspection on a checkbox report.

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  12. #12
    Ken McConnell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why aren't all inspectors inspecting/testing this?

    I agree that home inspectors should be trained to go beyond the standard operating procedures but only if they have been trained and somewhat knowageable of the system they are about to go above and beyond. And the reason why is due to possible legal issues that could arise by going above and beyond the standard of practice, and also for the safety of all involved.

    Ken McConnell
    Quality Home & Building Inspection Consultants


  13. #13
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    Default Re: Why aren't all inspectors inspecting/testing this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce King View Post

    Force the thermostat on for attic vents when temperature permits (required in NC)
    Bruce,

    Here in NJ, we have some VERY high attic's. Whenever I can reach a stat, I do check for operation. However, about 50% of these fans are just too high. I'm wondering if NC requires one to work off a ladder in the attic?

    Darren www.aboutthehouseinspections.com
    'Whizzing & pasting & pooting through the day (Ronnie helping Kenny helping burn his poots away!) (FZ)

  14. #14
    Fred Herndon's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Re: Why aren't all inspectors inspecting/testing this?

    An excellen post by Bruce Ramsey, and a very good response by Bruce King as well. About the only thing I can think of on short notice that hasn't been included here is walking the roofs (when possible to do so safely). That may not be a "test", but definately goes beyond the SOP.
    [QUOTE=Markus Keller;147232]
    Knowing what I know, if I followed the SOP or only what I was taught in licensing class, I'd consider myself a fairly crappy inspector.
    QUOTE]
    #1 on that, Markus. Unfortunately there is a school of thought among some Inspectors that by going beyond the standards we open ourselves up to additional liability. They have been told (or tell themselves) that we can be sued if we go beyond the standards on one item but do not in another area of the inspection. To me this is like saying a builder can be sued because he went beyond the bare minimum requirements of code in one part of the house but not in another.

    I don't think it would take a Harvard law school graduate to squash that one, but there is so much fear of liability and lawsuits in this business that it gives some an excuse to do as little as possible for their clients. To me that is no way to treat your clients or to stay in business.

    That being said, there is a legitimate concern about when an inspection becomes too technically exhaustive. As others here have said, that depends on your level of experience and expertise, and is an individual decision we all have to make pretty much on a daily basis.

    BTW Bruce, you never told us what the folks on the social media site were complaining about. ?????


  15. #15
    Fred Herndon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why aren't all inspectors inspecting/testing this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Darren Miller View Post
    Bruce,

    Here in NJ, we have some VERY high attic's. Whenever I can reach a stat, I do check for operation. However, about 50% of these fans are just too high. I'm wondering if NC requires one to work off a ladder in the attic?
    In N.C. if an item required by the SOP is not inspected we are required to state so in the report and give the reason why (it was too high, there was a hornet's nest on the fan (it happened!), etc.)


  16. #16
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    Default Re: Why aren't all inspectors inspecting/testing this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Herndon View Post
    Bruce, you never told us what the folks on the social media site were complaining about. ???
    Sign In | LinkedIn

    Somewhere down near response 45-50, Randy Aldering askes if and how inspectors check for stray voltage.

    Most of the discussion is about how taking less than 8 hours to perform a home inspection is completely inadequate and makes you a real estate agent toady. Intermixed is a rant about accepting referrals from real estate agents.

    "The Code is not a peak to reach but a foundation to build from."

  17. #17
    Fred Herndon's Avatar
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    Cool Re: Why aren't all inspectors inspecting/testing this?

    Good grief.
    Well, if someone is willing to pay me enough to spend all day on a 2,000 sq. ft. house I will happily do so. Unfortunately they are not. I used to advertize, or offer as an option, a "technically exhaustive" inspection, where I would bring in my electricain, heating contractor, engineer if needed, etc, starting at $1,000.00. No one ever took me up on it.
    As far as referrals are concerned, I will take them from whatever source I can. Don't let it afect the way I write my reports, though. One realtor told me I could get a lot more referrals from his office if I didn't write up so much stuff. When I asked him if the repair contractors and engineers said I was wrong, he said "No, that's the problem!". Needless to say I don't hear from him too often any more, but his partner just called me to inspect the home she is buying. Hmmmm....


  18. #18
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    Default Re: Why aren't all inspectors inspecting/testing this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken McConnell View Post
    And the reason why is due to possible legal issues that could arise by going above and beyond the standard of practice, and also for the safety of all involved.

    Both the legal issues and the safety of all involved issues are much greater by adhering to a SoP minimums than by going as far beyond the SoP minimums as one feels qualified.

    To try to defend yourself because you adhered to the minimum is like telling the judge that, of course, I did not see that, I was not looking for that because I am NOT required to look for that ... probably the next thing you say after admitting that would be something like: "Your Honor ... HOW MUCH should I write the check for?"

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

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    Post Re: Why aren't all inspectors inspecting/testing this?

    Jerry, you hit the nail on the head and drove it home with two blows. I recall reading a court transcript of a home inspector sued for failing to note evidence of pest infestation in the home inspection report (termites). This particular inspector also performed pest inspections, but had not been retained to perform a pest inspection in this case. That was his defense.

    In short, the judge told the home inspector that, from now on, he had better be doing both, regardless which he had been retained for. The court was extremely dissatisfied and unpersuaded by the home inspector's defense.

    Stopping to consider what most clients retain a home inspector for, common sense suggests that it is to find problems that they might not find themselves, and to alert them to issues that should be corrected, generally speaking. Those problems are not going to be discovered if they are not being investigated. The SsOP that I have read are what I like to refer to as "minimalist" at best. I could not, in good conscience, take payment for my services if I were adhering to the standards and not exceeding them.


    Randall Aldering GHI BAOM MSM
    Housesmithe Inspection
    www.housesmithe.com

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    Post Re: Why aren't all inspectors inspecting/testing this?

    My favorite story to tell, which there is no room for here, is about the ASHI inspector who accused me of "over-inspecting". That was the actual phrase that was used. If you happen to run into me some where, I'd be happy to tell you the whole story.

    Randall Aldering GHI BAOM MSM
    Housesmithe Inspection
    www.housesmithe.com

  21. #21
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why aren't all inspectors inspecting/testing this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Aldering View Post
    Jerry, you hit the nail on the head and drove it home with two blows. I recall reading a court transcript of a home inspector sued for failing to note evidence of pest infestation in the home inspection report (termites). This particular inspector also performed pest inspections, but had not been retained to perform a pest inspection in this case. That was his defense.

    In short, the judge told the home inspector that, from now on, he had better be doing both, regardless which he had been retained for. The court was extremely dissatisfied and unpersuaded by the home inspector's defense.

    Stopping to consider what most clients retain a home inspector for, common sense suggests that it is to find problems that they might not find themselves, and to alert them to issues that should be corrected, generally speaking. Those problems are not going to be discovered if they are not being investigated. The SsOP that I have read are what I like to refer to as "minimalist" at best. I could not, in good conscience, take payment for my services if I were adhering to the standards and not exceeding them.
    My question would be about the highlighted part of your post.....what happened? As far as not being paid for a service therefore not commenting on such.....so what.

    Unpersuaded about the inspectors testimony....about termites or other wood destroying insects when the man was there for a home inspection and the folks chose not to go the termite inspection route says to me and should say to everyone that the buyer was not concerned so why should the inspector be concerned. Sounds like in their walk thru before the inspection they saw evidence of termites. This guy offered it for a fee, the folks said no thanks and then proceeded to go after the inspector knowing he also did termite inspections. The judge should have looked at those buyers and shrugged his shoulders and said........anddddddddddddddd?

    edit here

    That goes for extending the SOPs beyond reason or inspecting items out in the middle of the room not hooked up to anything or inspecting an out building when the folks said they did not need or want to bother getting it inspected.

    They idea of an inspector being a bum because he does not stretch the inspection to include other items.......for free? is what I consider unreasonable. You own a IR camera....should you pull it out of every job for free because w you do both. Termite inspections for free?? Pools for free??? IR camera inspections for free????

    Now if you are talking about suggestions......Helpful, useful suggestions or comments about why something may have failed or why there should be gutters on the home or what will happened if they do not perform periodic maintenance on the HVAC system....Well in that case I write all that stuff up.

    That is going beyond most SOPs.

    To just start throwing in free services is foolish. I add the square footage of the garage onto a homes square footage to get a price for the inspection. My base fee for a home is less than a lot of inspection....so they think...until they add that extra 4-5-600-800 square feet onto the home for the total cost for an inspection. I see in many a websites where they say they do not add the footage of the garage. With me a 2600 square foot home is really at the least 3,000 square feet. In that case my minimum is greater than the other inspector.

    Lets see. Could you please do an oil change on my truck? Yes Sir, we will get right on it. I come back an hour later saying...."I know you heard that noise from the left rear wheel and smelled the burnt rear end fluid from the breaks on that side. How come you did not put in a new axle seal, break pads and turn that drum???? After all, you perform all those services anyway.

    I just put a fler out to a couple offices about a minimum for the square footage of a home inspection pricining. I also stated they must add the garage to qualify for that max size home for the pricing. I also added in a termite inspection as the company doing it is throwing it in for nothing. I doubt I will get practically any calls considering it was an email and only went to a few offices so the termite folks are counting on the possibility of fing termites, carpenter ants or whatever and bringing themselves in some cash for the free inspection. They may make out they may lose.That is their marketing. I just threw it in with mine. Of course other inspectors lambasted me for the low pricing before even reading the flier. Oh well. Life is to short to concern myself with that garbage.

    Point is. If you offer other services or extended services to the home inspection then charge for them. We only get paid for our time. The termite folks may very well at the least get a carpenter ant treatment or whatever, maybe not.

    I just see this over and over and over again about minimum SOPs. Don't know about you folks but ours are already pretty full. If you add much if anything to do with the concern other than "The grounding electrode is not hooked to the ground rod...have an electrician repair"....Then the likelihood of getting another referral from a Realtor is highly unlikely. I do not care about that because I do go into detail but as slow as this market is I should start caring. The folks with the one liners may not be real busy but busier than the folks that do go into any detail. Simple math. Some day I may figure that simple math out. The last Realtor I lost

    "Well, Inspector Ted said she needed gutters to help prevent the washout that happened before at the rear of the home and now the client feels she should get them from the seller"

    And that is the way the Realtors fall.

    Last edited by Ted Menelly; 10-17-2010 at 07:09 PM.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Why aren't all inspectors inspecting/testing this?

    [I]"Hi Bruce,
    I suspect that certain certified franchise based inspectors do follow a strict order of inspection."


    I see this alot on this site. Many inspectors think that because you are a Franchise inspector that you are some kind of robot and do not care about anything other than getting work from Realtors. I have been a Franchise owner for 9 years now and can tell you that we are never told that we cannot go above and beyond our SOP. I will agree that many people get into this biz through a franchise because it sounds easy and they don't have a clue, but that can be said of thousands that got into it by other means. I would be willing to bet that more people that get into this on their own with no support such as that from a franchise fail than those that do go the franchise route.

    Being a Franchise owner, I have hundreds of other Franchise owners that I can talk with and have honest communication since we are not competitors. We have continued education each year. We have our own intranet where we can post questions that we would not want to post in an open forum. We are on top of the latest trends in the biz and can find best practices through the group. All that being said, I am not saying that the Franchise is the best way to go. It would be much cheaper if I were not with the Franchise. I just get tired of seeing comments like that. I have always kept my mouth shut and did not really care, but we deal with the same issues as any other inspection co and have good and bad inspectors, just like the "Independent Inspectors" do.

    I have done over 4,000 inspections and although I may not be Jerry Peck (no slight to you Jerry) I am confident that I do a very good job and care just as much as anyone else on here and I know many of my Franchise bros that do a great job too. OK I am done now. Just kind of struck a cord for some reason. maybe too many beers on the golf course today.

    If it weren't for lawyers, we would never need them.

  23. #23
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    Post Re: Why aren't all inspectors inspecting/testing this?

    Ted, the point is that the home inspector paid dearly. The admonishment from the judge was akin to saying: "I don't care if you were hired to do a home inspection or a pest inspection, you had better do both, regardless."

    Randall Aldering GHI BAOM MSM
    Housesmithe Inspection
    www.housesmithe.com

  24. #24
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why aren't all inspectors inspecting/testing this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Aldering View Post
    Ted, the point is that the home inspector paid dearly. The admonishment from the judge was akin to saying: "I don't care if you were hired to do a home inspection or a pest inspection, you had better do both, regardless."
    That really sucks. That brings precedent for every home inspector out there. Like I said, he was not hired for a termite inspection. If he does termite inspections I am sure he at the very least tried his sales pitch for the termite inspection. I do not do the termite inspection myself but I tell every single client the importance of a termite inspection and that I can set one up for them. I certainly don't know the details but if the basics ere that even though not paid for...he should have reported on a service that was not paid for, then I certain hope he appealed. That is absolutely outrageous. But as in everything I am sure there must be a whole lot more to it then that

    All I can say is WOW


  25. #25
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why aren't all inspectors inspecting/testing this?

    The phone rings. How much is your inspection fee $ I need some info please.

    Just what all do you want me to inspect ?

    Do you want just the inspection to only adher to SoP minimums ?

    Do you want the inspection to go OVER AND ABOVE SoP ?

    Do you want Check box inspection ?

    Do you want a detailed inspection with photos.

    So your agent said this 1800 SQ foot home inspection should only cost $ 250.00

    I love asking these Question to buyers... This always gets them thinking... Very few will order the big over the top type inspection and spend up to $ 2,000 Most just want the standard what I call a limited inspection report that covers the main parts of a home only.

    And some order a No report walk though type inspection $ 150.00 Takes about an Hr.

    Visible and safely accessible condition only.

    Foundation
    Framing
    Electrical
    Roofing
    Sub-structure
    HVAC
    Plumbing

    If you call people out they will let you known what they want... You known what your SoP says but 99% of buyers don't

    Best

    Ron


  26. #26
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    Default Re: Why aren't all inspectors inspecting/testing this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    That really sucks. That brings precedent for every home inspector out there. Like I said, he was not hired for a termite inspection. If he does termite inspections I am sure he at the very least tried his sales pitch for the termite inspection. I do not do the termite inspection myself but I tell every single client the importance of a termite inspection and that I can set one up for them. I certainly don't know the details but if the basics ere that even though not paid for...he should have reported on a service that was not paid for, then I certain hope he appealed. That is absolutely outrageous. But as in everything I am sure there must be a whole lot more to it then that

    All I can say is WOW
    But Ted, if during the course of your inspection, if you notice evidence of WDO, don't you report it as part of your inspection report? I bet you do. It's not a termite inspection with a NPMA-33, but just part of the normal service. Did the inspector in question do that or did he just ignore it because he didn't get an extra fee? If he did observe evidence of termites and didn't report it as part of the inspection, then he should get burned and tossed out of the profession.

    The above statements are expressed solely as my opinion and in all probability will conflict with someone else's.
    Stu, Fredericksburg VA

  27. #27
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
    Ted Menelly Guest

    Default Re: Why aren't all inspectors inspecting/testing this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Brooks View Post
    But Ted, if during the course of your inspection, if you notice evidence of WDO, don't you report it as part of your inspection report? I bet you do. It's not a termite inspection with a NPMA-33, but just part of the normal service. Did the inspector in question do that or did he just ignore it because he didn't get an extra fee? If he did observe evidence of termites and didn't report it as part of the inspection, then he should get burned and tossed out of the profession.
    In Texas you cannot specifically state that you see termite or wood destroying insect damage unless you are a licensed applicator or work for a licensed applicator with a termite tech license.

    Personally I still do comment on it and then try to set up the termite inspection like I advised them to in the beginning. They cannot do anything with out a written termite report. If the lender required a termite report and they said no then they need to be the ones that are penalized.

    If I am hired just to inspect the HVAC and the roof and If on the way up the ladder to inspect the roof I climb past a bunch of rot on the side of the home and I also see a few broken windows outside??????? Should I be able to hold the inspector liable for those items not reported.

    Short answer. They were asked if they wanted a termite inspection. They refused. Specifically asked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Refused!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why was there a need to comment on isect damage/infestation. They did not want to know about it. The line has to be drawn some where. Rot on the home....sure.

    I would like to have seen the case and the inspection report so as to know what actually took place or commented on or for that matter not commented on. That would be a very interesting read.

    Of course all of this depends on the state one resides I guess. They all have their own rules.

    As far as the judge goes. You are a termite inspector as well as a home inspector, correct? Yes your honor. Then you obviously tried to sell these nice folks here a termite inspection, correct? Of course your honor. And what was their response? They refused your honor. Is that true nice folks? Yes your honor. We saw no need in it your honor and we did not want the added expense. Well this here nice inspector must have told you of the need for a termite inspection and the costs possibly incurred by you if something were found at a later date in his sales pitch to you, correct? Yes your honor. Well nice folks, I guess you got what you asked for and paid for. Anything else?

    In Texas termite activity or wood destroying insect activity can only be reported on by a licensed termite inspector and to mean anything at all must be accompanied by a report.................................Yes, I do report the "possibility of" But if they really want to know they need a full termite inspection and report.


  28. #28
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
    Ron Bibler Guest

    Default Re: Why aren't all inspectors inspecting/testing this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Aldering View Post
    In short, the judge told the home inspector that, from now on, he had better be doing both, regardless which he had been retained for. The court was extremely dissatisfied and unpersuaded by the home inspector's defense.

    So when they went to court did they have a new pest report that ID all the problems that this judge was talking about ?

    Where did this Judge get his info ?

    who told this judge that the home had an active pest problem ?

    Did the HI Not make any statements in his report ?

    Alot of info is missing to this story...

    As a Calif. state lic. termite inspector I still do not state in my home inspection reports what kind of damage it is i just say wood damage you may want to get a pest inspection or if I'm doing both A HI & pest i say look at your pest report for more information.

    Best

    Ron


  29. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Chicago IL
    Posts
    117

    Default Re: Why aren't all inspectors inspecting/testing this?

    Wellll.....looks to me like there are two schools of thought here. One type of inspector is inspecting with his own interests in mind (adhere to SOP's and don't go beyond) and another type who is inspecting with the clients best interests in mind.

    I think that, in the long run, the one who inspects with the client's best interests as his/her goal will have more business, fewer complaints, and be able to look in the mirror w/o flinching in the morning before work.

    Dan

    Dan Cullen
    www.domicileconsulting.com
    Chicago IL

  30. #30
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
    Ted Menelly Guest

    Default Re: Why aren't all inspectors inspecting/testing this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Cullen View Post
    Wellll.....looks to me like there are two schools of thought here. One type of inspector is inspecting with his own interests in mind (adhere to SOP's and don't go beyond) and another type who is inspecting with the clients best interests in mind.

    I think that, in the long run, the one who inspects with the client's best interests as his/her goal will have more business, fewer complaints, and be able to look in the mirror w/o flinching in the morning before work.

    Dan
    Where do you get all that from. I don't think anyone adhered completely to either side. I think most made comment about do it or don't do it. One says stick to SOPs and one says don't. Neither said they don't look out for their client.

    My statements said that if they showed they did not want and or care about termites then why get involved with it. Whether he did or did not mention termites he should not be held accountable for termite damage as there was no official termite inspection wanted/needed/paid for.

    If they want xxx inspected (say just HVAC and roof) as you can do even in licensed states and that is all they pay for than that is all they get.

    This story can go round and round for months but it still comes down to the client saying no, forget about it. To holding the inspector accountable for something they did not want asinine.

    Every inspector wants the best for the client. Sometimes the clients just outsmart themselves in their cleverness and we hear that the judge statement and ruling agreed with that foolishness. I get told no on many occasions about termite inspection whether not wanted or thought to not be needed or they just decide not to put the money out right now. I always get asked in the end if I saw any termite damage. Honestly I am no longer looking for maybe that little pin hole in the drywall where termites may have come thru. That may be the only spot in the entire home where it was visible........Sorry. I was not looking for them. I see pin holes in most homes from tacks or picture hangers...don't you?

    Now there are also times where there is blatant items in front of your face and then I tell folks they should have a termite inspection to get the full service and report as there may be termite damage under the kitchen sink or bath or what ever.

    That is not, not looking out for your clients. That is performing the tasks at hand. Another 70.00 plus in hand affords more time to look for those minute details as only a termite inspector does. I don't do plumbng slab leak checks....do you. Some folks think I should have found a slab leak when I was at the home. No visible evidence....could not tell you if there is a drain or water line leak under the slab.

    Some folks expect me to do the oven self cleaning inspection test....yeah right. I do not have the hours on hand to do the self cleaning oven test....do you. And we, here in Texas have to test many functions of a range or oven, do you?

    Everyone is looking out for their clients. There is no need to be acting all above the rest. Everyone knows the limits of reality when it comes to Home Inspection...do you?

    Nothing directly personal because I do not think that you thought about what you wrote first....did you? I think that if it was made in earnest and that is your real thoughts then my opinion would be that that was a foolish blanket statement.

    edit here

    I just re read your post. I will put it bluntly. It was said in earnest. An absolute foolish post with one goal in mind.......trying to place yourself above the rest when you actually just lowered yourself. Sorry. I just write it like it is.


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