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  1. #1
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    Smile NHICC - National Home Inspector Certification Council

    Release for Canadian Home/Property Inspectors

    The NHICC is now empowered to resume the administration of the National Certification Program (NCP), so we are inviting new and renewal applications. Half a year ago, the future of the NCP was arbitrarily and abruptly placed in peril. The National Certification Authority (NCA), the group of experienced inspectors appointed or elected to administer the program, was advised that after four years their efforts were no longer required.

    Of the NCA group, several dedicated individuals, most of whom had been elected to the NCA by the National Certificate Holders, formed a new independent certification entity whose main goal is to revive the program and ensure that everyone who was touched by the NCP would have an opportunity to continue that involvement. This 'body,' is called the National Home Inspector Certification Council. (NHICC). The members that are charged with the administration of the NHICC are the exact same members of the National Certification Authority that were elected by National Certificate Holders (NCH), minus the appointed ones. As such, they serve as an interim steering committee.

    The NHICC has now received approval from the legal owners of the program, the Construction Sector Council (CSC) to advance the National Certification Program for Home & Property Inspectors. NHICC National Certificate Holders (registrants) will be seeing the designation on certificates, correspondence and various forms of communication and advertisement promoting the benefits of achieving the only recognized national certification benchmark. It indicates accountability and is a symbol representing a recognized home inspection professional. Consumers will now have a consistent, reliable and independent resource to locate and hire a nationally recognized home inspector.

    Another important milestone is the acceptance of the NHICC into the Institute of Credentialing Excellence (ICE). This important step closer, indicating the NHICC goal of assuring accountability to the profession. Achievement of the NCH (National Certificate Holder) designation can serve several purposes. It recognizes that we own a core set of skills and a particular body of knowledge to assure that the inspector has successfully completed specialized testing and assessment to earn the designation. This includes primarily recognizing the registrant's professional status as well as a distinct means to identify licensed practitioners to a recognized national occupational standard. The key deliverable is being assessed by a truly independent third party certification body, and not just relying on self-certification through membership in an association.

    The NHICC is not a home inspection association; it is a home inspector certification body that assures that a home inspector has completely satisfied the NCH designation through rigorous testing and assessments. It is NOT affiliated with any association, it operates under approved by-laws, and like any new corporation its governance body will change as specified over time.

    The "program" is open to all home inspectors in the industry in Canada (regardless of affiliation) through fair and equitable system, which also includes significant changes in the fee structure. We welcome members from the Canadian home inspection industry to participate, if they desire, and see the benefit and recognition of the "national program" and maintenance of the NCH as the national benchmark. We are continuing the National Certification Program under a truly national standard, with true independence from undue influence that was often an issue noted in the past.

    In particular, we welcome those people caught in the program waiting for their Test Inspection and Peer Review. The NHICC is now in the process of planning and resuming Test Inspections in various areas, particularly with emphasis in Ontario and British Columbia.

    Similar Threads:
    Inspection Referral

  2. #2
    Gilles Larin's Avatar
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    Default Re: NHICC - National Home Inspector Certification Council

    We should be grateful to those who have forged ahead and created a successor to CAHPI.

    My thanks to Claude and all the others who helped.

    Gilles Larin
    PHPI
    National Certificate Holder
    Certified Inspector ASHI, InterNACHI
    InterNACHI Quebec Chapter President


  3. #3
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    Default Re: NHICC - National Home Inspector Certification Council

    Its not a successor to CAHPI, CAHPI National is also offering National Certification. I also understand yet a third Canadian Assoc. will be possibly offering National Certification.

    We kept being told that the Nat. Cert. program was in reasonable compliance with CAN P9, but without audit by CAN P9 it was erroneous to suggest that anything was in ' reasonable compliance'. After all you are either in compliance or you are not.

    Seeing as CAHPI would not commit to an audit to assure compliance it has now gone state side to seek certification by an American credentialing body.

    I also have problems with what appear to be conflict of interest within NHICC and its chair also being a owner of a reporting software, home inspection products and a directors of an affiliate home inspection association http://phpic.ca/news_oct08_2009.php

    This is still home inspectors over seeing home inspectors, and it should be an independent BOD made up of non home inspectors and home inspectors. Too many issues with validity and independence with the current make up.


  4. #4
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    Default Re: NHICC - National Home Inspector Certification Council

    Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010
    Subject: PRESIDENT'S MESSAGE



    Dear Members,

    It’s been a very busy summer both at the national level and here at home in Ontario. Here’s a brief update.

    National Standard.

    In the summer CAHPI National established a National Steering Committee to guide and make recommendations on how to best move forward with the reintroduction of the National Standard previously managed by the now wound down NCA. All the volunteers having been working hard through the summer on this issue including attending important meetings in Ottawa: one facilitated by Construction Sector Council and another with CMHC.

    Just recently CAHPI National has announced the Revised Certification Initiative which includes retaining a third party to accredit the Provincial organizations to certify inspectors in the various provinces / regions across the country. There is consensus within the CAHPI Provincial / regional organizations that certification and governance of inspectors is best left with the provinces / regions. As mentioned in my message back in May this is consistent with regulation of most Professions within Canada. This is further consistent with the original plans / previous bylaws of CAHPI National and the original intent of the National Initiative starting back in 1996.

    Proposed New Membership Qualification (MQS)

    Discussion sessions throughout the province were wrapped with the last session being held in Ottawa in June. The Board of Examiners and the Board of Directors have had several meeting in July and August to make adjustments to the model in consideration of the feed back from all members of this Association. I’m confident that all submissions either at the sessions or by email have been given due consideration.

    We are on track to present the necessary bylaw amendments to the members in a special meeting scheduled for November.

    With our new MQS the Association will not only be able to demonstrate meeting the National Occupational Standard (NOS) but exceed the standard with our “Associate” requirements, the RHI will remain the highest standard.

    Changing Times

    As often happens during times of transition / uncertainty there will always be competing interest sprouting up and claiming the high ground. Rest assured that all the Provincial / regional Associations under the CAHPI National banner are confident that our existing infrastructures and robust requirements will maintain our high standard and be recognized as such by any independent 3rd party!

    Thanks to our members

    In any discussion on standards those who commit to the highest standard are the ones who deserve the most credit. All members of this Association have maintained that commitment including student and applicant members who start that 1st course intent of completing up to 12 more then starting the practical experience requirement striving for that high standard here in Ontario.

    Thanks,

    Robin Green (Mr.) RHI
    OAHI President
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    PLEASE NOTE: ALL EMAILS FROM 'OAHI PUBLICATIONS' news@oahi.com ARE NOT MONITORED OR USED TO REPLY TO EMAILS. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS EMAIL OR ANY EMAIL RECEIVED FROM 'OAHI PUBLICATIONS' PLEASE EMAIL oahi@oahi.com.

    ONTARIO ASSOCIATION OF HOME INSPECTORS
    Established by the Ontario Association of Home Inspectors Act, 1994
    Box 38108, Castlewood R.P.O., Toronto ON M5N 3A8
    Telephone: (416) 256-0960 or 1-888-RHI-OAHI (744-6244)
    Email: oahi@oahi.com Fax: (905) 771-1079
    Web site: www.oahi.com



  5. #5
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    Default Re: NHICC - National Home Inspector Certification Council

    Thanks for the posts.

    Here's the gem - "under the CAHPI National banner are confident that our existing infrastructures and robust requirements will maintain our high standard and be recognized as such by any independent 3rd party!"

    The RHI is inconsistent, and the requirements varies from province to province. It will take years for CAHPI to find 100% agreement on a standardized RHI designation because of those differences. Now consider that approximately 20% failed a TIPR - Test Inspection with Peer Review. The vast majority being RHI's. Now market that!

    CAHPI provincials also have a vested interest. They make much of their monies on training and education. They pretty much force their members, and than certify them. I see that more a a model of "self-certification" to suit that vested interest.

    If you look a little deeper, you may even discover that one brand of training is mandatory in some of those associations. Others have been dismissed as not good enough. So much for freedom of choice, so much for fair and equal access in the marketplace. Some may even claim it's downright anti-competitive.


  6. #6
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    Default Re: NHICC - National Home Inspector Certification Council

    I understand that The Alliance of Canadian Home Inspectors may be a possible participant of the Nat. Certification, but ACHI is looking at ways of modifying the programme so that it can be offered to inspectors at a much reduced rate so that all applicants can benefit.

    I also believe that CanNachi may be looking at Nat. Certification.

    As with many things in Ontario and at last count 7 associations are plying their membership benefits. It appears that either way that the Nat. Certification program will accomplish it goals by a united effort of the 7 associations to offer the same certification.


  7. #7
    Beauchemin,Marc-Andre BMA's Avatar
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    Default Re: NHICC - National Home Inspector Certification Council

    Good day to all! My name is Beauchemin,Marc-Andre,I am at the helm of BMAinspection.com and in the home inspection business since 1988.
    Living and inspecting in Beautiful Brossard,Quebec,Canada, I am happy to collaborate to this discussion.
    Along with a Univesity Degree, I presently hold a broker's license achieved from a reputed colege and from procured courses including construction to evaluation (1200 hours), I also hold a trade school degree in construction and more particularily in plumbing and Heating totaling more than 1,500 procured classes with exams, with more than 4,000 hours at my credit in construction experience, I am a member of NACHI by choice and enjoying all courses provided to NACHI members. I am a member of PHPIC, and looking forward to PHPIC who have accepted my application to living up to its promise to giving me the chance to attempt the TIPR.

    (The NHICC is not a home inspection association; it is a home inspector certification body that assures that a home inspector has completely satisfied the NCH designation through rigorous testing and assessments. It is NOT affiliated with any association, it operates under approved by-laws, and like any new corporation its governance body will change as specified over time.

    The "program" is open to all home inspectors in the industry in Canada (regardless of affiliation) through fair and equitable system, which also includes significant changes in the fee structure. We welcome members from the Canadian home inspection industry to participate, if they desire, and see the benefit and recognition of the "national program" and maintenance of the NCH as the national benchmark. We are continuing the National Certification Program under a truly national standard, with true independence from undue influence that was often an issue noted in the past.

    In particular, we welcome those people caught in the program waiting for their Test Inspection and Peer Review. The NHICC is now in the process of planning and resuming Test Inspections in various areas, particularly with emphasis in Ontario and British Columbia.)

    Having read explanations and interventions from Claude Laurenson, it is my hope that all interrested home inspectors should be able to attempt the TIPR and achieve the Canadian home inspector Certification sponsored program without having to go through the red-tape.


  8. #8
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    Default Re: NHICC - National Home Inspector Certification Council

    I am very happy for you.

    However, many of us not interested in the National, the players, the past history of deception and misinformation and the waste of $2 million dollars of taxpayers money over the history of this program. And infighting and conspiring by the provincial chapters of CAHPI.

    Many of us prefer to see a made in Ontario solution to issues facing us and not a body that has in the past aligned itself with Realtors in order to promote its agenda.

    Two of the principals involved via Phpic and NHICC are home inspection school owners, as well as one also providing home inspection report forms, et ceteras.

    You should also be aware of the following.

    Article located here:

    http://phpic.ca/news_sept03_2010.php#LETTER.BLOCK20

    Legal Action

    We have been working on behalf of our Provisional Members that were registered with CAHPI's National Certification Program and awaiting their TIPR when CAHPI canceled the program. To-date CAHPI has refused our requests to refund your money in full and after several attempts by your executive we are now starting legal action to help recoup your outstanding balance.

    We have been advised by the RCMP that this action would be our best approach as a criminal investigation would be unfortunately very low on their priority due to cutbacks and staffing issues nationally.

    Our corporate attorney will be filing the required documentation with the courts in early September. If you would like more information on the proceedings contact info@phpic.ca


  9. #9
    Beauchemin,Marc-Andre BMA's Avatar
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    Default Re: NHICC - National Home Inspector Certification Council

    Raymond, I hear you!

    Thank you my friend.

    MA of BMAinspection.com

    Last edited by Beauchemin,Marc-Andre BMA; 11-04-2010 at 12:57 PM. Reason: spelling.

  10. #10
    Alexander Hembery's Avatar
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    Default Re: NHICC - National Home Inspector Certification Council

    The truth is that this entire program is based on supposition, guesses and opinions. We are told that there are 'thousands' of runaway cowboy inspectors roaming the range. We are told that they are incompetent and are causing all kinds of grief for Canadian consumers. We are told that only licensing ( and that is what the national is, or is intended to become) can solve these problems.

    But guess what?

    The proponents of this failed program ( it has attracted less than 10% of Canadian Inspectors after eight years and the expenditure of millions of Canadian tax dollars which pretty much makes it irrelevant to the industry) cannot even answer some very basic questions;

    HOW MANY INSPECTORS ARE THERE IN CANADA?
    HOW MANY INSPECTIONS ARE CARRIED OUT IN CANADA EACH YEAR?
    HOW MANY OF THOSE INSPECTIONS GENERATE 'PROBLEMS'?
    HOW MANY OF THOSE 'PROBLEMS' LEAD TO COURT AND HOW MANY DO NOT?

    Without knowing the answers to these simple questions, any claims about the supposed incompetence of Canadian Inspectors are at best guesses and at worst an attempt to panic the public into supporting this program. Without the answers to these questions no accurate conclusions can be drawn about the industry in Canada and yet . . . . . . .

    A pall has been thrown over every Canadian Inspector and the entire industry as these rumours of incompetence are spread without proof of their veracity. Every Canadian Inspector has been damaged by those who would force their agenda on all Inspectors as they try to control the industry.

    SHAME!


  11. #11
    Beauchemin,Marc-Andre BMA's Avatar
    Beauchemin,Marc-Andre BMA Guest

    Default Re: NHICC - National Home Inspector Certification Council

    Well well! There are as you put it, many unanswered questions!

    Thank you for the input!

    I am encouraged to see that I am not the only one who did not to perform his TIPR.

    National certification across Canada, is it only a Federal dream or can it be a reality!

    Beauchemin, Marc-Andre, BMAinspection.com


  12. #12
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    Default Re: NHICC - National Home Inspector Certification Council

    Quote Originally Posted by Beauchemin,Marc-Andre BMA View Post
    Well well! There are as you put it, many unanswered questions!

    Thank you for the input!

    I am encouraged to see that I am not the only one who did not to perform his TIPR.

    National certification across Canada, is it only a Federal dream or can it be a reality!

    Beauchemin, Marc-Andre, BMAinspection.com
    I consider your points somewhat valid, but what may I ask are do you
    use to base your facts? (Meant in a respectful manner). Innunedo, from
    others that believe there's no problem, or based on what we can read
    in the news, along with research done by other experts that are
    qualified?

    There have been a number of studies done in Canada, regarding the need
    for a national initiative for home/property inspectors. Several alone
    conducted through "research" studies funded by CMHC. There have been
    several other independent studies for consumers, such as the one done
    in BC, prior to licensing. So those offer some valid starting points,
    based on research and facts.

    Now if we look at licensing in BC, we can use that as an impetus for
    need for regulation in the industry. Where we can likely agree, the
    other provinces to date have not taken such a dramatic step. However,
    studies have taken place in some of the other provinces.

    So speculating that a national plan or national initiative is "a
    dream", my be short sighted. Only time will really tell.

    But more to the point of why the need for a national standard of
    competency. Yes, we take hits from time to time from the media for the
    exact reasons of our own shortsightedness! We believe, we are a step
    better than being regulated. Yes, perhaps in the overall scheme, the
    odds seem pretty good - but how many big hits and bad inspections will
    become the tipping point of changing that reality?

    Those that believe they have a solution, need consider, what will
    happen when regulation comes into effect, that impacts you or any
    other inspector?


  13. #13
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    Default Re: NHICC - National Home Inspector Certification Council

    Now if we look at licensing in BC, we can use that as an impetus for
    need for regulation in the industry. Where we can likely agree, the
    other provinces to date have not taken such a dramatic step. However,
    studies have taken place in some of the other provinces.
    Yup I remember PHPIO/C held a meeting for all inspectors back in June two years ago were a director of CREA was invited to be the chair of the meeting wherein she told us that she could and would lobby 40K agents in Canada to call on the government to licence home inspectors on behalf of PHPIO/C! Thankfully that idea went over like a lead weight. Realtors have no business in the businesses of home inspectors. If anything Realtors need to be legislated to remain at arms length from any influence in consumers picking inspectors.

    At that very same meeting a government spokes person unequivocally stated licencing was not on the table in Ontario, as the government felt the current system (non regulation) was working fine as complainants could persue issues with the associations and their complaint system, or if need be redress in a court of law.

    Further I have yet to see any study that conclusively states there is need for regulation across Canada for licencing.

    Also lets not forget that in BC, CAHPI, CanNachi, BCIPI, and Nat. Cert. are all recognized as legitimate credentials for licencing. Its not the only game in BC.

    Can you provide these studies for us to review?


  14. #14
    Alexander Hembery's Avatar
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    Default Re: NHICC - National Home Inspector Certification Council

    "There have been a number of studies done in Canada, regarding the need
    for a national initiative for home/property inspectors. Several alone
    conducted through "research" studies funded by CMHC. There have been
    several other independent studies for consumers, such as the one done
    in BC, prior to licensing. So those offer some valid starting points,
    based on research and facts."


    Claude, with all due respect, the studies done cannot answer these basic questions;

    HOW MANY INSPECTORS ARE THERE IN CANADA?
    HOW MANY INSPECTIONS ARE CARRIED OUT IN CANADA EACH YEAR?

    HOW MANY OF THOSE INSPECTIONS GENERATE 'PROBLEMS'?
    HOW MANY OF THOSE 'PROBLEMS' LEAD TO COURT AND HOW MANY DO NOT?

    Without these stats no accurate model of the Home Inspection Industry can be or has been developed. Claims that there is a huge problem with Inspector competence are based on guesses and conjecture and not fact. Add these well meaning but misguided conclusions to the natural inclination of politicians to identify a problem and then 'solve' it ( whether or not there was a problem to begin with is irrelevant just as long as the politician can be seen to 'solve' it ) and you have the situation in B.C. And this is the situation that 'industry leaders' hope to create in the rest of the country to advance their agenda.

    Fortunately, even with CAHPI being mandated in B.C. the so called 'national' has only attracted less than 10% of the total number of Canadian Inspectors ( whatever that number actually is - remember even NCA people estimated 5000 inspectors) and remains irrelevant to the industry.

    In the interests of open and honest discussion, (something that has been lacking in the whole development of the 'national') why don't you actually provide the answers to these important questions, not just veiled references to 'studies' done by third parties?

    Thanks in advance.





  15. #15
    Beauchemin,Marc-Andre BMA's Avatar
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    Default Re: NHICC - National Home Inspector Certification Council

    My evaluation of the present certification process is that it is presently not perfect!

    (Lots of good intentions, no doubt, but not perfect!).

    It is of my opinion that anyone who wants to pay the TIPR fees should be admitted no matter what association they are a member of. You register, you pay and voilà!

    There will always be room for good home inspectors.

    (Examiners should be independent and could be provided by CMHC).


    The new thing in Quebec, the Brokerage OACIQ, allows candidates to pay and write Broker exams without having to attend Brokerage school! You pas the exam, you are in business! (And you can be a home inspector Too!).

    We all know that in Quebec, regulating the inspection trade is out of the question for Quebec and federally speaking, I believe that the federal government will not reopen the Canadian constitution talks on behalf of home inspectors either!).

    I am, Beauchemin,Marc-Andre, of BMAinspection.com. I live and provide thermography-enhanced home-inspections in Brossard-Montreal-Quebec Canada.

    When my clients, selling brokers and listing brokers come to me and say thank you!, and find a way to ask for extra business cards, it gives me great satisfaction!


  16. #16
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    Default Re: NHICC - National Home Inspector Certification Council

    Quote Originally Posted by Beauchemin,Marc-Andre BMA View Post
    My evaluation of the present certification process is that it is presently not perfect!

    (Lots of good intentions, no doubt, but not perfect!).

    It is of my opinion that anyone who wants to pay the TIPR fees should be admitted no matter what association they are a member of. You register, you pay and voilà!

    There will always be room for good home inspectors.

    (Examiners should be independent and could be provided by CMHC).


    The new thing in Quebec, the Brokerage OACIQ, allows candidates to pay and write Broker exams without having to attend Brokerage school! You pas the exam, you are in business! (And you can be a home inspector Too!).

    We all know that in Quebec, regulating the inspection trade is out of the question for Quebec and federally speaking, I believe that the federal government will not reopen the Canadian constitution talks on behalf of home inspectors either!).

    I am, Beauchemin,Marc-Andre, of BMAinspection.com. I live and provide thermography-enhanced home-inspections in Brossard-Montreal-Quebec Canada.

    When my clients, selling brokers and listing brokers come to me and say thank you!, and find a way to ask for extra business cards, it gives me great satisfaction!
    I find this part interesting - "The new thing in Quebec, the Brokerage OACIQ, allows candidates to pay and write Broker exams without having to attend Brokerage school! You pas the exam, you are in business! (And you can be a home inspector Too!)."

    Over the years I have been approached by several Relators to work for them as their home inspector, in a one stop shop scheme. In another similar situation a realtors friend posed as a home inspector.

    I understand that licensing may not always be the answer, but for home inspectors to indicate this is not another way to manipulate the consumer and add to the belief - that anyone can call themself a home inspector.

    Personally, I believe its just a matter of time before the government acts in a move to protect consumers, regardless of what home inspectors think.

    BTW: Your comment about CMHC and independent examiners raises a good point, but it seems that discussions was already nixed, because of the scope of their role as inspectors. Years ago they also suffered cut backs (down sizing) in the inspection division. Much of that work was contracted out, and I did work for them on contract.


  17. #17
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    Default Re: NHICC - National Home Inspector Certification Council

    Any possible licencing schemes in Ontario will include everyone and such licencing will be inclusive and not dictated by one association.

    Thats just the way its going to be.

    In Ontario there is no licencing on the table. That fraud artist and pathological liar McGuinty is facing an election in 2011. The Liberals have mismanaged Ontario and have imposed taxes, fees, and instituted the HST due to huge deficit. Could you really expect them to come up with a inclusive licencing scheme? Not! They have more pressing concerns like coming up with a litany of excuses why they should be re-elected.


  18. #18
    Beauchemin,Marc-Andre BMA's Avatar
    Beauchemin,Marc-Andre BMA Guest

    Default Re: NHICC - National Home Inspector Certification Council

    Well Claude,
    It is a fact that in Quebec, you can take the fast track and become a broker with the OACIQ new government sanctionned rules. (You reserve the right to write the exam ant if you pass, you can become a broker.)
    (Many of OACIQ brookers were also surprised!)

    Shocking you say, but time will tell.

    You say that at the moment, the same applies with inspectors.

    I say that, it is not the same, you don t get an inspector s license plus if you cannot tell an architect that he cannot be a home inspector, how can you tell a broker that he cannot be a home inspector that can provide a fantastic inspection.

    Personally, I intend to continue to inspect all over Canada in all provinces and territories.I am proud of being Canadian.
    Of course, I will go where the client wants me to inspect. I don t look at it as stealing work from others.

    I ask you! How do inspector schools become accredited and then how do these schools recruite good inspection teachers.
    (Where do they recruite inspectors also.)

    You know, Claude, I must share this with you, recently I was shown a report where an inspector questionned lab report results but I must say that he was not a lab technician.
    The same guy who had come out of one of the recommended Quebec schools, wrote that the client s water heater was gaz, oil, and electric fired. Actually it was a 6o Gallon electric water heater.

    How does one become an accreditated home inspection teacher. Is there a special exam.

    Anyone wanting to have his name added to an official federal list should not have to be a member of this or that association, but should pay for the right to take the exam and a TIPR.
    This should only be asked when the inspection trade will become regulated and I do not believe that this will happen soon.

    Best regards,

    Beauchemin,Marc-Andre
    Thank you.
    Beauchemin,Marc-Andre BMAinspection.com working out of Brossard,Montreal,Quebec,Toronto, Canada region.

    Last edited by Beauchemin,Marc-Andre BMA; 11-08-2010 at 12:56 PM. Reason: grammar and missing accents.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: NHICC - National Home Inspector Certification Council

    Good questions Marc-Andre, I am not here to debate the merits of accreditation. But you do raise the concern about who can teach, and if such a person is allowed to continue to teach that is out of touch (such as claimed) with what's going on in the home inspection industry.

    But first, you did not specify if the case used was a private trainer, or from a recognized institution - such as a college, or university. You indicate "inspection schools". From my experience they come in a variety of forms, both formally and informally in setting.

    If problems do exist, what process or procedure is in place to investigate or audit the course and/or training program?

    I do have extensive experience in the post-secondary college level of course and curriculum development, which brings forth another point. What "standards" are used to benchmark learning outcomes, and was the curriculum or program of study ever mapped to those recognized "occupational standards".

    I hear lots of claims about standards, or claims that inspectors meet or exceed them; but do they really know what they are talking about, and more so how it was mapped?

    As you likely know there are home inspector diploma mills. Even some of those claim to be accredited. So without getting into specifics - it is difficult to respond, without bringing up the issue, that accreditation depends on the value, proper mapping and an auditing process, that provides a defendable model upon which to make such a claim.

    On the issue of questioning lab results, my first comment would be, where in any of the home inspection association's SOP, does it indicate that this falls within the normal realm of the scope of work of a general home inspector practitioner? Does this inspector have qualifications or valid recognizeable "skills" that qualfies him/her to be such an expert, to render such an opinion?

    So now on another point - how does anyone teaching - let's say college become a subject matter expert? Or is it simply a self-proclaimed recognition? I know what studies I had to complete.

    Most colleges at least in Ontario now require a Master's degree. Before a BA and other industry related experience was once good enough. For me to teach even Ontario Building Code and for students taking my classes to become certified in code, I must have successfully completed the course, as well as completed the required facilitator training to teach/facilitate those courses. Otherwise, they are not recognized as Ministry of Housing, accepted equivalents.

    On the issue of the NHICC seeking accreditation, it's about laying all of the qualification assessments, association governance and association administration, etc on the table to a full and rigorous audit. It's taking those extra steps and costs of undergoing an independent external audit, by a recognized ISO certification process, regardless of where the head office is located.

    It's simply not just assuming that, it can be done be that ABC or XYZ endorses any home inspection association. Those assumptions, become sooner or later , short-lived!

    Provide the evidence to support those claims, and receive recognition for being compliant, that meets a truly national and international standard.


  20. #20
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    Default Re: NHICC - National Home Inspector Certification Council

    On the issue of the NHICC seeking accreditation, it's about laying all of the qualification assessments, association governance and association administration, etc on the table to a full and rigorous audit. It's taking those extra steps and costs of undergoing an independent external audit, by a recognized ISO certification process, regardless of where the head office is located.
    All fine and dandy but some of the players have less then satisfactory qualifications and backgrounds to carry out their governance functions. (i.e. the DPPC, directors).

    Also OAHI has a number of instructors teaching new inspectors who have facilitator training as per Ministry of Housing, and we all know about the ruse with the Defect recognition course.

    Qualifications does not mean inspectors meeting a set criteria only but also the overseers.


  21. #21
    Beauchemin,Marc-Andre BMA's Avatar
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    Default Re: NHICC - National Home Inspector Certification Council

    Raymond,
    I like your frankness and you stimulate my curiosity! (Thank you for this).

    ""A number of instructors teaching new inspectors who have facilitator training as per Ministry of Housing, and we all know about the ruse with the Defect recognition course. "" (Any of those NACHI members?)

    Raymond, What is this defect recognition course all about anyway!

    ""Qualifications does not mean inspectors meeting a set criteria only but also the overseers.""
    __________________

    Claude, correct me if I am wrong, but apparently, you are also a member of NACHI.

    I am curious, to know your opinion of NACHI continuating education courses and the evaluation it provides for its members?

    As you are aware, I am both a Broker and a Home inspector in Quebec and this is all legal. (I verified with the only Quebec OACIQ Broker regulating body).

    I am a member of NACHI and I continually take their continuating education and free to member classes.

    If you ask me I believe that NACHI is great!

    Encouraged to do so, last year, I became a PHPIO member with the intention of becoming certified but I seem to have stumbled into your certification red tape!

    I received communication indicating that you have turned down my application.
    You do not seem to recognize my NACHI home inspector trainning plus all my background trainning. (Can I appeal?).

    Apparently, some form of defect recognition course was recommended.

    Can you have NACHI provide this course so I can perform my TIPR.

    Regards!

    Beauchemin Marc-Andre of inspectionbmainspection.com - BMAinspection.com
    (514)502-0770


  22. #22
    Beauchemin,Marc-Andre BMA's Avatar
    Beauchemin,Marc-Andre BMA Guest

    Default Re: NHICC - National Home Inspector Certification Council

    Raymond,
    I like your frankness and you stimulate my curiosity! (Thank you for this).

    ""A number of instructors teaching new inspectors who have facilitator training as per Ministry of Housing, and we all know about the ruse with the Defect recognition course. "" (Any of those NACHI members?)

    Raymond, What is this defect recognition course all about anyway!

    ""Qualifications does not mean inspectors meeting a set criteria only but also the overseers.""
    __________________

    Claude, correct me if I am wrong, but apparently, you are also a member of NACHI.

    I am curious, to know your opinion of NACHI continuating education courses and the evaluation it provides for its members?

    As you are aware, I am both a Broker and a Home inspector in Quebec and this is all legal. (I verified with the only Quebec OACIQ Broker regulating body).

    I am a member of NACHI and I continually take their continuating education and free to member classes.

    If you ask me I believe that NACHI is great!

    Encouraged to do so, last year, I became a PHPIO member with the intention of becoming certified but I seem to have stumbled into your certification red tape!

    I received communication indicating that you have turned down my application.
    You do not seem to recognize my NACHI home inspector trainning plus all my background trainning. (Can I appeal?).

    Apparently, some form of defect recognition course was recommended.

    Can you have NACHI provide this course so I can perform my TIPR.

    Regards!

    Beauchemin Marc-Andre of inspectionbmainspection.com - BMAinspection.com
    (514)502-0770


  23. #23
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    Default Re: NHICC - National Home Inspector Certification Council

    Raymond,
    I like your frankness and you stimulate my curiosity! (Thank you for this).

    ""A number of instructors teaching new inspectors who have facilitator training as per Ministry of Housing, and we all know about the ruse with the Defect recognition course. "" (Any of those NACHI members?)

    Raymond, What is this defect recognition course all about anyway!

    ""Qualifications does not mean inspectors meeting a set criteria only but also the overseers.""
    See
    Course Information

    Also was your application being denied it would appear on the surface that the masters of the NHICC have set their own criteria as they see fit. Education is education no matter how you get it or where you get it.

    The denial of your application appears to support the assumption that the NHICC has been designed to filter out those NHICC (self regulating, over seen by home inspectors) deemed not worthy.

    You are not the only person to raise concerns about the objectivity of the whole NHICC.


  24. #24
    Beauchemin,Marc-Andre BMA's Avatar
    Beauchemin,Marc-Andre BMA Guest

    Default Re: NHICC - National Home Inspector Certification Council

    Raymond,
    I like your frankness and you stimulate my curiosity! (Thank you for this).

    ""A number of instructors teaching new inspectors who have facilitator training as per Ministry of Housing, and we all know about the ruse with the Defect recognition course. "" (Any of those NACHI members?)

    Raymond, What is this defect recognition course all about anyway!

    ""Qualifications does not mean inspectors meeting a set criteria only but also the overseers.""
    __________________

    Claude, correct me if I am wrong, but apparently, you are also a member of NACHI.

    I am curious, to know your opinion of NACHI continuating education courses and the evaluation it provides for its members?

    As you are aware, I am both a Broker and a Home inspector in Quebec and this is all legal. (I verified with the only Quebec OACIQ Broker regulating body).

    I am a member of NACHI and I continually take their continuating education and free to member classes.

    If you ask me I believe that NACHI is great!

    Encouraged to do so, last year, I became a PHPIO member with the intention of becoming certified but I seem to have stumbled into your certification red tape!

    I received communication indicating that you have turned down my application.
    You do not seem to recognize my NACHI home inspector trainning plus all my background trainning. (Can I appeal?).

    Apparently, some form of defect recognition course was recommended.

    Can you have NACHI provide this course so I can perform my TIPR.

    Regards!

    Beauchemin Marc-Andre of inspectionbmainspection.com - BMAinspection.com
    (514)502-0770


  25. #25
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    Default Re: NHICC - National Home Inspector Certification Council

    Quote Originally Posted by Beauchemin,Marc-Andre BMA View Post

    _________________
    Claude, correct me if I am wrong, but apparently, you are also a member of NACHI.

    I am curious, to know your opinion of NACHI continuing education courses and the evaluation it provides for its members?
    I believe Claude is or was on the NACHI Committee , It? he? does not seem to be very active
    ).

    I am a member of NACHI and I continually take their continuing education and free to member classes.

    If you ask me I believe that NACHI is great!
    I agree and NACHI does more for the Canadian Home Inspection industry then all other Canadian associations combined .The way I see it .
    Encouraged to do so, last year, I became a PHPIO member with the intention of becoming certified but I seem to have stumbled into your certification red tape!
    NACHI is free and open to all ,Not like our Canadian associations
    I received communication indicating that you have turned down my application.
    You do not seem to recognize my NACHI home inspector training plus all my background training. (Can I appeal?).
    I tried the PHPIO DPPC and my results show they have no ideas of proper procedures

    Apparently, some form of defect recognition course was recommended.

    Can you have NACHI provide this course so I can perform my TIPR.
    My own opinion the TIPR is a scam and they have saved you a pile of money .

    Regards!

    Beauchemin Marc-Andre of inspectionbmainspection.com - BMAinspection.com
    (514)502-0770
    The above in red is my feeling and I stand behind my post .
    At this time I feel there is nothing even close to NACHI .

    Roy Cooke


  26. #26
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    Beauchemin,Marc-Andre BMA Guest

    Default Re: NHICC - National Home Inspector Certification Council

    Roy,

    If I read you well, we seem to agree that NACHI opens doors and knows no boundary!

    Cheers!

    Beauchemin Marc-Andre


  27. #27
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    Default Re: NHICC - National Home Inspector Certification Council

    I received communication indicating that you have turned down my application.
    You do not seem to recognize my NACHI home inspector trainning plus all my background trainning. (Can I appeal?).


    Marc-Andre, every now and then you see something so profoundly stupid that it takes your breath away. Here, in your case, we have a group of so called 'industry leaders' who actively discourage Inspectors from obtaining their education from whatever source is available.

    NACHI provides a large number of really good courses for free to their members and some to anyone else who cares to take them. They are a good source of information to 'newbees' and equally good refresher courses to the 'oldbees' too. Knowing that the majority of new inspectors, if not outright joining NACHI, then at least visit the web site, it offers a great opportunity to encourage them to get started with education.

    But here we have a closed society, that has appointed itself as the ultimate arbiter of who is and who is not qualified to be an inspector, actively discouraging inspectors from trying to improve themselves through education.

    HOW SMART IS THAT?

    HOW DOES THAT HELP IMPROVE THE EDUCATION LEVEL OF INSPECTORS?

    HOW CAN THIS CLOSED CLUB CLAIM TO STAND FOR THE BETTERMENT OF THE INDUSTRY WHEN IT ACTIVELY DISCOURAGES INSPECTORS FROM USING AN IMPORTANT EDUCATIONAL RESOURCE?

    As I said, every now and then you run across something that is so profoundly stupid that it takes your breath away. This is one of those things.

    Fortunately there is another Canadian association that values all NACHI educational opportunities and awards CEU's for them.


  28. #28
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    Default Re: NHICC - National Home Inspector Certification Council

    From another forum.


    Test-Inspections-with-Peer-Review (TIPR's)

    One of our members told me how wonderful this process is. He told me that he jumped through all the hoops and obstacles put in his way. Finally he was give permission to do the test inspection.
    He did the peer reviewed inspection that had to be completed within two hours and submit the report for review. There was no verbal presentation.
    He was informed sometime later that he had failed.
    He phoned their office to find out why he they had failed him.
    He was told that he failed because he did not report on the fireplace.
    He asked that was possible because there was no fireplace in the house.
    He was told "That's why you failed."
    Needless to say he's one of our best supporters.
    It seems to me that the main purpose of the Test-Inspections-with-Peer-Review is to control the number of inspectors whether then test the competence of the student.

    Bye the way I've never done a full house inspection and report in less then three and one half hours.



  29. #29
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    Default Re: NHICC - National Home Inspector Certification Council

    Marc-Andre - for clarification, yes, I am a member of NACHI, and many other H.I. associations, and other related technical associations.

    So to correct a few misconceptions:
    (1) The NHICC evaluates on what is known as "background review" system or what the college systems calls PLAR. Prior Learning Assessment Review. It is a long established system that replaced the arbitrary and perhaps sometimes negative connotation known as "grandfathering".

    (2) The NHICC - Admissions Board uses the background review system that assesses the key elements of reviewing an inspectors background. It is based on a point system, and is also dependant of providing documents to support ones' background claims.

    (3) The NHICC does not offer courses for registration/certification of home inspectors.

    (4) The NHICC DOES NOT mandate that a home inspector take the Defect Recognition & Report Writing course. That is likely OAHI, or one of the other CAHPI provincials.

    (5) Regarding the comments of whether the NHICC accepts a home inspector's NACHI training is based on documented evidence. So the answer is yes, it counts, providing the evidence is the other key component. For audit and rigor - evidence is required, and filed in the applicant/candidate or NCH's file.

    (6) Regarding provincial TIPRs by CAHPI associations. They are not entirely the same as the original TIPR. In the example of CAHPI Alberta, it is a mock inspection. The process has differences, just like ones now being performed in other CAHPI provincials.

    Having been involved in the original TIPR development, it now seems that some want to copy it, but put their own provincial flavour to it. So it is truly not a "national standard". Just like CAHPI - RHI requiremts is still not the same in all of the CAHPI provincials.

    (7) You noted - "I received communication indicating that you have turned down my application.
    You do not seem to recognize my NACHI home inspector trainning plus all my background trainning. (Can I appeal?)."

    Certainly in my opinion, you can appeal, but the question is to who?

    BTW: There is no record that you have applied to the NHICC. So we do not have your application. So it would be impossible to turn down or reject your application.

    Are you possibly confusing the NHICC with some other association that you may have applied to?

    BTW2: I have not been involved with PHPIO,since the formation of the NHICC. I also no longer sit as one of their directors. Several others also voluntarily removed ourselves as directors upon the formation of the NHICC. So once again - PLEASE do not confuse me or the NHICC with misleading claims that "we rejected your application" - therefore you cannot take a TIPR.

    There's already enough incorrect or misleading info out there without adding more fuel to that fire.

    If you like you may contact me personally and directly at clawrenson@acncanada.net


  30. #30
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    Default Re: NHICC - National Home Inspector Certification Council

    Marc-Andre Please be a little Careful .
    I see CAHPI says they are the keeper of the NCA .
    http://www.cahpi.ca/index.php .

    I see others have on their web site they are NCA inspectors and when I go to the CAHPI only one of the three I checked is listed .
    I would say do some home work ,there seems to be some serious discrepancies with the NCA .

    All the Best Roycooke@sympatico.ca


  31. #31
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    Default Re: NHICC - National Home Inspector Certification Council

    Ray and others in respect to this post -

    "One of our members told me how wonderful this process is. He told me that he jumped through all the hoops and obstacles put in his way. Finally he was give permission to do the test inspection.
    He did the peer reviewed inspection that had to be completed within two hours and submit the report for review. There was no verbal presentation.
    He was informed sometime later that he had failed.
    He phoned their office to find out why he they had failed him."

    So it tells me right from the get go this was not the NCP TIPR.

    Why do I state such?

    (1) The NCP TIPR includes a verbal reporting to the two examiners at a pre-arranged time after the house inspection. - Hence the peer review portion. What test questions were asked, how did the examiners evaluate the inspectors communication skills?

    (2) It also fails to mention anything to do with what office (I assume CAHPI Alberta). Are "they" now in charge of National Certification and "Nationally recognized TIPR's". Seems every province and everyone wants to reinvent and bastardize the procees - even more. So much for a "national standard".

    (3) The post indicates "evidence" of modification to the nationally accepted TIPR program process. In other words, wilful bastardization and questionable in its value. Someone, or some association should have been held accountable.

    So I agree, I would also be upset, and would questions the process! The process is not the question, it is more to the point of why was is altered, and who approved that such alterations were deemed the NCP TIPR?


  32. #32
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    Default Re: NHICC - National Home Inspector Certification Council

    Roy and other consider this from what you posted:
    "Marc-Andre Please be a little Careful .
    I see CAHPI says they are the keeper of the NCA .
    www.cahpi.ca .

    I see others have on their web site they are NCA inspectors and when I go to the CAHPI only one of the three I checked is listed .
    I would say do some home work ,there seems to be some serious discrepancies with the NCA .

    Yes, CAHPI has wisely indicated that it owns the NCA (National Certification Authority) - note not the NCP (National Certification Program). There's a difference if one does not understand the difference, they could be easily misled.

    Originally CAHPI appointed its provincial directors to sit on the NCA. The NCA was the certifying body. When I was asked to Chair the NCA after two chairs resigned over a period of a year, my first task was to have an elected members sit on the NCA - not appointed! I wanted an open and more democratic process to represent the National Certificate Holder and the National Certification Program.

    Furthermore I was also tasked to create policy and procedures to satisfy the administrative needs for the national certification program. CAHPI still retained (the control mechanism) of three appointed directors on the NCA. So CAHPI not only believed they controlled the "program", but also the right to "veto" the NCA.

    The other point you raise is the akward search function to find a national certificate holder. Again, a control mechanism to bounce anyone searching for a home inspector to the CAHPI website. Unless you "correctly" spelled an inspectors first and last name, you would likely be looking at the CAHPI landing page. So much for promoting the National Certificate Holder.

    The point being in my opinion - anything to protect and promote the RHI. So as long as the elected NCA was not in opposition with the CAHPI objectives, no big issues. But as the elected members of the NCA gained more momentum, those members became a threat to CAHPI. Hence they dismissed the elected members, and went back to the same old appointed boys club.


  33. #33
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    Default Re: NHICC - National Home Inspector Certification Council

    With all the continuing Names lack of information and so many associations all trying to convince the home Inspector who just wants to do inspections ,I and many others are confused .
    Why Do we need 7 ?~ Associations in Ontario .
    The secrets and lack of facts does nothing for our industry.
    It looks to me like far more home Inspectors do not belong to any associatiuon then belong to the 7?~ groups out there.
    Until full facts and proper information out there I expect we will stay in a vortex going around in circles .


  34. #34
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    Default Re: NHICC - National Home Inspector Certification Council

    Roy - That is the same question asked based on the results/findings of the original National Initiative back in 1996. As you say, the 7 home inspections associations, exist, but that is just the beginning. Who will be the next one, or perhaps will one just fold.

    It seems more inspectors that belong to an association eventually change their mind based on what an association can do for them. Perhaps based on politics, policies, or apathy, or lack of support, etc. The bottom line - others view the industry as fractured, it seems by the multitude of posts we are exactly like the model we represent - a lot of individuals with differences in opinion.

    How does this help our image, or what about the confusing messages it offers consumers?

    Hey some cannot even agree on whether we represent a "profession" or a "trade". Some will even argue that PLAR is not the new day and method of critically applying - grandfathering!

    C'est la vie!


  35. #35
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    Default Re: NHICC - National Home Inspector Certification Council

    Claude take 25~ inspectors chosen by draw balanced amount to How many HIs in each province . Rent motel units and they all stay till 51% agree ,
    Too soon it they should have some sort of a basic agreement .
    Unfortunately chances are next to nil .
    PACHI/OAHI did it one week end.
    Roy


  36. #36
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    Default Re: NHICC - National Home Inspector Certification Council

    The sad part of all of this, people are out to cry foul when the "what about me" is not addressed.

    Even if it was humanly possible to get all inspectors in Canada at such a meeting, there still will be 51% that may agree. But without complete consensus there still will be almost as large a group maintain they have rights too. The right to disagree, or to claim they have been agrieved.

    Than factor in the newbies that come along after the fact. Lot's to say, but often too late!

    The wheels keep spinning round and round......and therefore there will always be those that feel slighted.


  37. #37
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    Default Re: NHICC - National Home Inspector Certification Council

    Claude,

    Can you say 'grandfathering'? Come on, I know you can!


  38. #38
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    Default Re: NHICC - National Home Inspector Certification Council

    From the grandfathering home inspectors website - "all practicing home inspectors who have successfully operated a home inspection business for a period of one year or more, and have completed a minimum of 20 paid home inspections (subject to verification)"

    That sure is a definition of grandfathering. But not mine. :-)


  39. #39
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    Default Re: NHICC - National Home Inspector Certification Council

    Quote Originally Posted by Claude Lawrenson View Post
    From the grandfathering home inspectors website - "all practicing home inspectors who have successfully operated a home inspection business for a period of one year or more, and have completed a minimum of 20 paid home inspections (subject to verification)"

    That sure is a definition of grandfathering. But not mine. :-)

    Well we have had the closed door method for 20~ years and it has not worked .
    I also think you left out part of what you quoted .
    We can carry on disagreeing or at least this is a start .
    I see nothing sensible be offered by others .
    I saw how well it worked for the electricians in Ontario in about 1950 .
    My two brothers where grandfathered in and I served an apprentice .
    Roy Cooke



  40. #40
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    Default Re: NHICC - National Home Inspector Certification Council

    But Roy respectfully that was how many years ago.

    Things have changed. Even recent notices I have read about Michigan electrical apprenticeship for electricians shows its not grandfathering and electricians running around without some "reasonable" form of guidelines to follow. But certainly not based on grandfathering anymore!

    Attached Files Attached Files

  41. #41
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    Default Re: NHICC - National Home Inspector Certification Council

    Quote Originally Posted by Claude Lawrenson View Post
    But Roy respectfully that was how many years ago.

    Things have changed. Even recent notices I have read about Michigan electrical apprenticeship for electricians shows its not grandfathering and electricians running around without some "reasonable" form of guidelines to follow. But certainly not based on grandfathering anymore!
    Yes it was many years ago and it worked . You quote Michigan and miss that many areas in the USA have little or no regulations for electricians .

    For your information Ontario has gone back to Grandfathering .
    They are allowing all electricians to be given a Master Electrician Liciense with time to upgrade their certificates .
    Is this not exactly what ACHI is talking about?

    I see no advantage to having the loud mouth minority of Home Inspectors less then 10% having control of our industry in Canada .

    What I wonder is why PHPIO?CAHPI can not just do their thing and let our industry carry on doing what many want .
    When less the 10% of the Home Inspectors feel they are the saviors and try to intimidate all other home Inspectors it looks to me just more of what our Ontario Dept of education is trying to stop .

    http://www.edu.gov.on.ca/eng/safeschools/bullying.html

    Preventing Bullying
    Bullying is a serious matter that can have a significant impact on learning, student safety and the school climate. In fact, principals must now consider suspension when dealing with acts of bullying.
    Ontario has a bullying prevention strategy to help prevent bullying in schools. The strategy includes making resources available to help schools, parents and students who are worried about bullying in schools.

    Last edited by Roy Cooke sr; 11-17-2010 at 07:01 AM.

  42. #42
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    Default Re: NHICC - National Home Inspector Certification Council

    Roy - I kindly suggest that you read again; that's not grandfathering, anymore than the current method of recognition based on merit for proven practical supervised experience and academic training.

    It's another form of apprenticeship.

    I'm not sure what bullying has to do with this. We simply may disagree on what you consider grandfathering.


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