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  1. #1
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    US District Court as well!

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  3. #3
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    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    Your late, I posted it here two days ago. If this thing becomes as big as some are wishing who knows who will be implicated when Mallory again gets the opportunity to speak, stories regarding dogs taking exams may only be the tip of the iceberg; remember, it ain't over till the fat lady sings.

    Last edited by Deleted Account; 08-04-2007 at 07:45 AM.

  4. #4
    Harvey Hempelstern's Avatar
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    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    Kinda like bringing a knife to a gun fight.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    Quote Originally Posted by Harvey Hempelstern View Post
    Kinda like bringing a knife to a gun fight.
    Yep, that way, when both sides run out of bullets, at least you now have a knife for protection.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  6. #6

    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK


  7. #7
    Lewis Capaul's Avatar
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    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Burkeson View Post
    Your late, I posted it here two days ago. If this thing becomes as big as some are wishing who knows who will be implicated when Mallory again gets the opportunity to speak, stories regarding dogs taking exams may only be the tip of the iceberg; remember, it ain't over till the fat lady sings.

    You and Harvey should have remembered the Fat Lady's Song a couple of months ago when you were celebrating the defeat of HI Licensing in Florida.....How does that song go Joe?

    If I were the NAHI E.D., I would be considering filing individual civil suits against several Nachi Members who participated in the "You aren't going to believe this" thread on your message board, she could even use past comments from your ESOP Committee to establish that several members, and interNachi leaders had violated your own rules and policies, along with possibly violating various Federal Laws, some of which may come under the province of the FCC. You should suggest to the "Penile Implant" gang that they take a look at the definition of slander, libel, and defamation, and the use of interstate communications regarding those, and a couple of others.

    I'd contribute to her "legal" fund if she were to press charges, I'm pretty sure others would to.


  8. #8
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    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    Lewis,
    Do you have specifics on the rules broken or are you just venting? Don't forget about that pesky free speech thing.


  9. #9
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    Cool Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    You would think the NAHI members could, would, should ignore such blatant BS from a source that appears to lack any credibility? I’m afraid state licensing will make all real estate inspector associations “history” so perhaps this is a lot to do about nothing?

    Jerry McCarthy
    Building Code/ Construction Consultant

  10. #10
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    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    Jerry,
    Why would licenseing do away with the assoc.'s, I for one would not drop out just because the stat gave me a piece of paper.


  11. #11
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    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    Lewis,

    I suggest you save your money, when you boil it all down there is still the sworn testimony of Mallory Anderson admitting to have conspired with other home inspection associations for the purpose of putting NACHI inspectors out of business for no other reason except that they were NACHI members.

    I am positive that given the chance to cross examine Mallory once again NACHI lawyers will leave no stone unturned getting to the bottom of this conspiracy regardless of where it leads. Based on her previous confession it is doubtful that Mallory will ever again be willing to testify against NACHI, more likely my guess is she will be summoned against her will.

    What really puzzles me is why she is allowed to remain in her position after such a public debacle, conspiring to put people out of business is a serious breach of conduct in almost any profession, were something like this to happen at NACHI the person would be immediately removed for violating NACHI's CoE. I will leave commenting on Florida licensing to another thread other than to say that its effects on me personally will be minimal.


  12. #12
    Harvey Hempelstern's Avatar
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    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    A very strong rumor has Mallory resigning on Monday. Her paid position as ED and her part ownership of the contracted company managing (AND PAYING HER) it has NAHI almost assured of losing their non-profit status.

    Looks like it is all starting to crumble...


  13. #13
    David Banks's Avatar
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    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    Quote Originally Posted by bruce m graham III View Post
    Jerry,
    Why would licenseing do away with the assoc.'s, I for one would not drop out just because the stat gave me a piece of paper.
    I live in a licensed state and nobody ask what organization you belong too. Only question I get is are you a Licensed Home Inspector.
    All these organizations are not big around here. I belong to a local organization that is big on Continued ED and has real low profile.


  14. #14
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    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    Quote Originally Posted by John Ghent View Post
    A broken link, figures.


  15. #15
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    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    [QUOTE..I'd contribute to her "legal" fund if she were to press charges, I'm pretty sure others would to.[/QUOTE]

    Lewis.. your not alone on this one..

    With the current example of price fixing, it may just a matter of time before ole nickey is long gone, thus saving everybody $s for having to defend themselves from gromickos next law suit.


  16. #16
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    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Harris View Post
    With the current example of price fixing...


    Dan,

    Your rants lately are much less thought out and impassioned; price fixing within the home inspection market will be just about as easy to accomplish as cat herding, and just about as rewarding.

    I'm sure its written in the Bible somewhere... "Low-ballers and their ilk will be with us always", but what intrigues me mostly is your knee-jerk reaction to CMI, who knows that designation might be worth something after all.


  17. #17
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    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    My knee jerk reaction to the CMI.
    I can only suggest when lic. come to Fla, voluniteer for the lic. committes and read or listen to customers that felt they were done wrong by an inspector, and what is exposed when they state why they hired an inspector, I'll guarantee you most of them will claim it was due to the stated / advertized qualifications by the inspector, and yes those qualifications will very often be verified by that customers attorney to discredit the inspector, and used against him if they are not verifiable..


  18. #18
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    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    David nailed it. The only benefit of belonging to a real estate inspection association is for the continuing education that they may provide and there are some that are really good at it. Otherwise in a licensed state they're a waste of time and money. That you can take to the bank!

    Jerry McCarthy
    Building Code/ Construction Consultant

  19. #19
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    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry McCarthy View Post
    The only benefit of belonging to a real estate inspection association is for the continuing education that they may provide and there are some that are really good at it. Otherwise in a licensed state they're a waste of time and money.


    I hate the thread drift, but right now based on the fact that home inspection organizations are thriving in both licensed & unlicensed states all you have is the makings for a good theory regarding that they are a waste of time. None the less it does appear to be a theory with legs in that once licensing becomes the national norm, associations who expect to survive will have to deliver value to their membership instead of working against their members best interests as some have been known to do.

    Where we differ is in the notion that their best use is in providing education. I fear that if education is the best reason to join an association then we will all be punching a time-clock working for some friggin' mega-home inspection corporation in the near future. First comes licensing, then comes the standardization of all documentation & reports and lastly consolidation in the form of lower prices & centralized workforces.

    What we need is an association with superior marketing talent and vision, an association which will market their members as a cartel and provide a barrier to protect and promote their members in the marketplace, otherwise we can kiss our asses good by and go the way of all other mom & pop type businesses.

    We are fully aware that some associations through their support of licensing have traded our birthright for a bowl of slop, no doubt these same associations would be quick to further our demise by supporting standardization and the centralization of one-man operations. So when you hear one of these associations educating their membership in terms of standardization & centralization and calling it a benefit you can bet your ass it isn't your best interests they are trying to protect but their own.

    Last edited by Deleted Account; 08-04-2007 at 08:29 PM.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    Quote Originally Posted by David Banks View Post
    I live in a licensed state and nobody ask what organization you belong too. Only question I get is are you a Licensed Home Inspector.
    All these organizations are not big around here. I belong to a local organization that is big on Continued ED and has real low profile.

    Hence the lunacy of any lawsuit that suggests that NAHI and it's members lost money due to public confusion over the names of these two organizations, to the tune of $4 million.

    NAHI fights back? Get real. Please remember who filed the bogus lawsuit in the first place. It is simply another part of a pattern of behaviour intended to do everything in their power to do damage to NACHI and it's members. The worst of which is evident in PA.

    All the while John Q. Public says "What organizations?"


  21. #21
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    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    All the while John Q. Public says "What organizations?"[/QUOTE]

    That may be true for some of the John Q Public, members of professional HI orgs are getting the majority of their inspections from the other John Qs that do their home work/ research prior to hiring an inspector..


  22. #22
    Harvey Hempelstern's Avatar
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    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Harris
    members of professional HI orgs are getting the majority of their inspections from the other John Qs that do their home work/ research prior to hiring an inspector..
    Yes, we are. Thanks for noticing.


  23. #23
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    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    Why are you insinuating yourself in this conversation, Bushart? Any discussion of "professional" inspectors excludes you by definition.

    If you were an inspector, you would be out inspecting instead of living on this message board, which, by the way, you love to denigrate with your pseudo-certified buddies on one of your other time-wasting computer-messaging endeavors.

    That said, I'd like to thank you for your contributions to the professional discourse here. I'd like to, but I can't, because you have never offered any. You do serve, however, as a shining example for other losers who have no skill, no experience, no insight, and too much time on their hands.

    It's no wonder you're ashamed to post under your own name. I do wonder why Burkeson doesn't have the integrity to acknowledge who you are, rather than to refer to you as 'Hempelstern' when he mentions you here. I suppose honesty isn't one of the pillars of ethics at the little internet club where you are both "prominent" members.

    Have a nice day.

    RT


    Quote Originally Posted by Harvey Hempelstern View Post
    Yes, we are. Thanks for noticing.



  24. #24
    Joseph P. Hagarty's Avatar
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    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    Quote Originally Posted by David Nice View Post

    ....Hence the lunacy of any lawsuit that suggests that NAHI and it's members lost money due to public confusion over the names of these two organizations, to the tune of $4 million.

    NAHI fights back? Get real. Please remember who filed the bogus lawsuit in the first place. It is simply another part of a pattern of behaviour intended to do everything in their power to do damage to NACHI and it's members. The worst of which is evident in PA.....
    I agree.

    Having been a Member of NACHI since the early part of 2001, I find no validity with NAHI's assertions that the Public and/or Home Inspectors have been confused by the acronyms.

    When I joined NACHI, there were less than 100 Members.

    There was no Website.

    There was no Message Board.

    There was a Monthly NACHI Newsletter / Magazine.

    We grew the Organization from a grass roots effort to what it has become today. Opinions may range from Good to Evil but the fact remains that NACHI succeeded in fulfilling what all other Organizations have failed to do to date.

    Expand, Grow and be responsive to the needs of the Membership.


  25. #25
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    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph P. Hagarty View Post
    We grew the Organization from a grass roots effort to what it has become today. Opinions may range from Good to Evil but the fact remains that NACHI succeeded in fulfilling what all other Organizations have failed to do to date.

    Expand, Grow and be responsive to the needs of the Membership.


    This bottom-up approach (associations empowering their members instead of the other way around) was something our profession had not yet experienced, the net-net result freed the inspector to concentrate their efforts on pleasing & impressing their customers instead of their association, the rest is history.


  26. #26
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    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph P. Hagarty View Post
    I agree.

    Having been a Member of NACHI since the early part of 2001, I find no validity with NAHI's assertions that the Public and/or Home Inspectors have been confused by the acronyms.

    When I joined NACHI, there were less than 100 Members.

    There was no Website.

    There was no Message Board.

    There was a Monthly NACHI Newsletter / Magazine.

    We grew the Organization from a grass roots effort to what it has become today. Opinions may range from Good to Evil but the fact remains that NACHI succeeded in fulfilling what all other Organizations have failed to do to date.

    Expand, Grow and be responsive to the needs of the Membership.
    Joe, you are correct. NACHI did fill a niche. NACHI filled the niche for folks who wanted to become a home inspector and needed an instant certification credential without any effort, education, experience or knowledge of the profession. And along with the growth of NACHI came some experienced inspectors who are out numbered 10 to 1.

    Congratulations to NACHI for a monthly newsletter/magazine, I had no idea one was being published and mailed out. This is a start in the right direction. Now if Y'all could just get a real board that is elected by the 10,000 members. This way the membership would run the organization instead of a chosen few who are controlled by one.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  27. #27
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    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    Joe, you are correct. NACHI did fill a niche. NACHI filled the niche for folks who wanted to become a home inspector and needed an instant certification credential without any effort, education, experience or knowledge of the profession. And along with the growth of NACHI came some experienced inspectors who are out numbered 10 to 1.

    Congratulations to NACHI for a monthly newsletter/magazine, I had no idea one was being published and mailed out. This is a start in the right direction. Now if Y'all could just get a real board that is elected by the 10,000 members. This way the membership would run the organization instead of a chosen few who are controlled by one.

    It is so obvious, Scott, that your grudge against NACHI is related to the extent where it has reduced ASHI membership roles --- that your statements to the contrary are laughable.

    Why are you not at least equally concerned about the even larger number than 10,000....the home inspectors who hold no accountability at all to ANY code of ethics or SOP? Where is your concern and outrage for them and the clients who hire them?

    You would be concerned more about that....if the quality of home inspectors really was your main concern.

    Instead, because NACHI offers more to its members and is today's association of choice to home inspectors selecting one...you must try to discredit it. If your membership roles were not declining and your operating capital was sufficient you would be back to your original and earlier predictions of NACHI's imminent demise.


  28. #28
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    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    Sorry Joe "White Rabbit" Bushart, I can only see that you posted something but the post it blocked by the Ignore feature of this website. Love it!

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  29. #29
    Harvey Hempelstern's Avatar
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    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    Sorry Joe "White Rabbit" Bushart, I can only see that you posted something but the post it blocked by the Ignore feature of this website. Love it!
    Let's pretend like you are not a liar for a minute, shall we, Scott?

    Tell us all why you would go through the trouble of copying Bushart's posts from another message board and posting them here...and then put the guy you think is Bushart, here, on "ignore".

    No wonder, with people like you in responsible positions, ASHI is failing its members in so many ways. If they really had power to vote, you would be out....and over at NAHI helping Mallory try to pass the on-line NACHI exam so that she could be at least as smart as her dog.

    Last edited by Harvey Hempelstern; 08-05-2007 at 09:12 AM. Reason: To give Patterson more info to ...ahem..."ignore". LOL

  30. #30
    Joseph P. Hagarty's Avatar
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    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post

    ....Now if Y'all could just get a real board that is elected by the 10,000 members. This way the membership would run the organization instead of a chosen few who are controlled by one....
    Scott,

    The 10,000 Members (as you suggest) have already spoken as to which Organization is Real.

    NACHI succeeded by distancing themselves from the Other Organization alternatives.


  31. #31
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    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    Quote Originally Posted by Harvey Hempelstern View Post
    Yes, we are. Thanks for noticing.
    The only thing that I noticed is a few from your org [must be doing those inspections 12AM to 6AM, ] are blaming their need to lower inspecten fees, failures/ lack of getting inspections on home inspectors from their own and other HI orgs.

    To combat that, the current answer is create another decieving non verified certification to futher dupe the public, propose raising HI fees based soley on those worthless certificiations, opposed to offering services based on true verified credentials and experience that other professionals have been doing for years.

    Last edited by Dan Harris; 08-05-2007 at 09:43 AM. Reason: edited to advoid promoting an ins company that promotes this shame

  32. #32
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    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Burkeson View Post
    Lewis,

    I suggest you save your money, when you boil it all down there is still the sworn testimony of Mallory Anderson admitting to have conspired with other home inspection associations for the purpose of putting NACHI inspectors out of business for no other reason except that they were NACHI members.

    I am positive that given the chance to cross examine Mallory once again NACHI lawyers will leave no stone unturned getting to the bottom of this conspiracy regardless of where it leads. Based on her previous confession it is doubtful that Mallory will ever again be willing to testify against NACHI, more likely my guess is she will be summoned against her will.

    What really puzzles me is why she is allowed to remain in her position after such a public debacle, conspiring to put people out of business is a serious breach of conduct in almost any profession, were something like this to happen at NACHI the person would be immediately removed for violating NACHI's CoE. I will leave commenting on Florida licensing to another thread other than to say that its effects on me personally will be minimal.
    I seem to have read the disposition a little differently Joe, it appears to me that any move to "run Nachi Inspectors" out of business is nothing but more fabrication and spin on the part of your Nachi Leadership, putting Nachi out of business does not put any Home Inspector "out of business", neither would losing the Designation of "Certified", seeing as it is meaningless because of its lack of credibility. I didn't see anything that said individual Nachi HI's were being targeted.

    My offer of donating money to a legal fund has nothing to do with NAHI and NACHI's legal battles, I have no use for either organization. My offer concerns a civil suit filed against individuals for possible Libel, Slander, Defamation, and various provisions of FCC laws, personal attacks, many of a sexual nature, intentionally made to damage, discredit, and harm an individual and her reputation by attacking her education and employment background, an education that is far above the level of most of your members.

    As far as any reference to the Florida HI Law, my reference was only to your and Busharts premature celebrations of Victory in your fight against its passage, you may be celebrating a little early once again.


  33. #33
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    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis Capaul View Post
    As far as any reference to the Florida HI Law, my reference was only to your and Busharts premature celebrations of Victory in your fight against its passage, you may be celebrating a little early once again.

    I guess its just my nature to keep on the sunny side, always on the sunny side.


  34. #34
    Joseph P. Hagarty's Avatar
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    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis Capaul View Post

    I seem to have read the disposition a little differently Joe, it appears to me that any move to "run Nachi Inspectors" out of business is nothing but more fabrication and spin on the part of your Nachi Leadership, putting Nachi out of business does not put any Home Inspector "out of business", neither would losing the Designation of "Certified", seeing as it is meaningless because of its lack of credibility. I didn't see anything that said individual Nachi HI's were being targeted....
    My read on the deposition is quite different than yours.

    Recognizing the names and having an understanding of the Motions previously played and currently being exercised, it is very easy to see why you do not understand.

    Those named most likely know where this is headed with certainty.


  35. #35
    Joseph P. Hagarty's Avatar
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    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post

    .....along with the growth of NACHI came some experienced inspectors who are out numbered 10 to 1.....

    Scott,

    Where do you get the facts to substantiate this?

    Not knowing what you are specifically referencing I will add my own commentary.

    I have been a NACHI Member (exclusively) since the early part of 2001.

    I personally have completed well over 3500+ Inspections.

    Our Office currently employs 3 Inspectors Full-Time.

    All of the Inspectors within our employ are NACHI Certified PA Compliant Inspectors.

    Your ramblings about NACHI are UNCONVINCING to me. Rather than your continued incessant postings as to why NACHI is problematic, tell me about the Organization that you chose to affiliate with?

    At this stage of my career / business, what does ASHI have to offer to me?

    As an Experienced and Established Inspector, why should I align myself with ASHI over NACHI?

    Last edited by Joseph P. Hagarty; 08-06-2007 at 03:56 AM.

  36. #36
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    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph P. Hagarty View Post
    Scott,

    Where do you get the facts to substantiate this?
    This is a personal observation of my local area and what I see on the Internet.

    Not knowing what you are specifically referencing I will add my own commentary.

    I have been a NACHI Member (exclusively) since the early part of 2001.

    I personally have completed well over 3500+ Inspections.

    Our Office currently employs 3 Inspectors Full-Time.

    All of the Inspectors within our employ are NACHI Certified PA Compliant Inspectors.

    Your ramblings about NACHI are UNCONVINCING to me. Rather than your continued incessant postings as to why NACHI is problematic, tell me about the Organization that you chose to affiliate with?

    At this stage of my career / business, what does ASHI have to offer to me?

    As an Experienced and Established Inspector, why should I align myself with ASHI over NACHI?
    Joe, this is difficult question to answer and it depends on what you want. If you are happy in your current organization, why change. In your area the fighting between the various HI groups and the law requirements has tainted all of them.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  37. #37
    David Nice's Avatar
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    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    This motion was filed 3 weeks ago, and still no emergency injunction.


  38. #38
    Harvey Hempelstern's Avatar
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    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    Quote Originally Posted by David Nice View Post
    This motion was filed 3 weeks ago, and still no emergency injunction.
    It is obvious that the court is taking Mallory's wailings as seriously (or not) as the rest of the world...the world outside of the windows of the "short bus", that is.


  39. #39
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    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    How come ASHI, NAHI, and FABI members never have to get defensive about their credentials?

    Oh yeah, that's because they're real.


  40. #40
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    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Lunsford View Post
    How come ASHI, NAHI, and FABI members never have to get defensive about their credentials?

    Oh yeah, that's because they're real.
    You mustn't believe your own propaganda, Bruce. There is not a scintilla of evidence that proves that any of those credentials proves an inspector to be competent, nor that it significantly increases the likelihood that they will be.

    It is a cute little sound byte but the only public perception that those credentials mean anything is largely the product of (for the lack of a better word) proverbial incest.


  41. #41
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    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    When I decided to get into this business I began doing my research. I came up with three organizations of course...ASHI, NAHI, and NACHI. I was extremely interested in the NACHI organization as I did not desire to hang out my shingle with any AS, or Candidate attached to my business name. At first NACHI seemed to be the smart thing to do....at first.
    I jumped into it, taking the ethics test, ok; no problems there. Then I took the standards test; a little more reading but simple. Then I jumped into the certification test, without preparation, just to get an idea of where I really needed to study to eventually pass. I knew that I would be going to a full blown school soon and wouldn't it be great to complete that and have my NACHI "Certified" status waiting in the wing.
    I took the test....first time....knowing the stats I had read about something like over 50% of home inspectors fail this test.....and I PASSED!. Imagine my suprise and my joy. I quickly emailed the attached id number I had been given in to NACHI and quickly recieved a congratulatory email from a Mr. Nick G. I was elated.
    I now had all I needed, the standards, ethics, and the inspector test. I had passed, and with a very high score indeed. I thought I was on the road to success.
    Then came school. I thought with my high NACHI score, and my background in construction, and home design, the school would be a breeze. I did not study the material they sent ahead of time I just showed up with a smile and a lot of confidence.
    WRONG. I quickly learned that not only did I not know how to be a home inspector; I wasn't even close. As school dragged on I began to re-think this NACHI thing. First: (and foremost) what kind of organization would prop me up as "Certified" given that I was not even close to being a good, or competent, or knowledegable inspector? Second: when I got down the road, in a year or two, did I want to be associated with an organization that would do that?
    I decided at that point, that becoming a NACHI inspector <at least at that point> was the wrong thing for me, and my business. Now, remember, this is just me and every business should be based on it's founders beliefs, and location, and laws, etc. But for me,,,,NACHI was not the right choice.
    As I look back, I am forever happy with that choice. Now, I know some great NACHI inspectors. The owner of my school is a NACHI inspector, and NAHI, and ASHI, and ICC, and BOCA, and on, and on. There are many great inspectors out there that belong to orgs of thier choice, and the truth is, it isn't the organization that makes them good inspectors. It is that in spite of any single organization, they are good because they have the aptitude for it, they study for it, they train for it, and they care about it.
    Maybe in the future I might join NACHI, or InterNACHI, or whatever it is. But I know in my heart, that until Mr. Nick G, relenquishes controls, and changes directions on "Certifying" inspectors that are not close to being ready to inspect professionally (I was one), that I will not do so. Many great inspectors, in all organizations, but it isn't the organization that makes us great, its us.
    And, Mallory...I am personally willing to contribute my part for you. Thanks for all you do.


  42. #42
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Spring Hill (Nashville), TN
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    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Greenwalt View Post
    When I decided to get into this business I began doing my research. I came up with three organizations of course...ASHI, NAHI, and NACHI. I was extremely interested in the NACHI organization as I did not desire to hang out my shingle with any AS, or Candidate attached to my business name. At first NACHI seemed to be the smart thing to do....at first.
    I jumped into it, taking the ethics test, ok; no problems there. Then I took the standards test; a little more reading but simple. Then I jumped into the certification test, without preparation, just to get an idea of where I really needed to study to eventually pass. I knew that I would be going to a full blown school soon and wouldn't it be great to complete that and have my NACHI "Certified" status waiting in the wing.
    I took the test....first time....knowing the stats I had read about something like over 50% of home inspectors fail this test.....and I PASSED!. Imagine my suprise and my joy. I quickly emailed the attached id number I had been given in to NACHI and quickly recieved a congratulatory email from a Mr. Nick G. I was elated.
    I now had all I needed, the standards, ethics, and the inspector test. I had passed, and with a very high score indeed. I thought I was on the road to success.
    Then came school. I thought with my high NACHI score, and my background in construction, and home design, the school would be a breeze. I did not study the material they sent ahead of time I just showed up with a smile and a lot of confidence.
    WRONG. I quickly learned that not only did I not know how to be a home inspector; I wasn't even close. As school dragged on I began to re-think this NACHI thing. First: (and foremost) what kind of organization would prop me up as "Certified" given that I was not even close to being a good, or competent, or knowledegable inspector? Second: when I got down the road, in a year or two, did I want to be associated with an organization that would do that?
    I decided at that point, that becoming a NACHI inspector <at least at that point> was the wrong thing for me, and my business. Now, remember, this is just me and every business should be based on it's founders beliefs, and location, and laws, etc. But for me,,,,NACHI was not the right choice.
    As I look back, I am forever happy with that choice. Now, I know some great NACHI inspectors. The owner of my school is a NACHI inspector, and NAHI, and ASHI, and ICC, and BOCA, and on, and on. There are many great inspectors out there that belong to orgs of thier choice, and the truth is, it isn't the organization that makes them good inspectors. It is that in spite of any single organization, they are good because they have the aptitude for it, they study for it, they train for it, and they care about it.
    Maybe in the future I might join NACHI, or InterNACHI, or whatever it is. But I know in my heart, that until Mr. Nick G, relenquishes controls, and changes directions on "Certifying" inspectors that are not close to being ready to inspect professionally (I was one), that I will not do so. Many great inspectors, in all organizations, but it isn't the organization that makes us great, its us.
    And, Mallory...I am personally willing to contribute my part for you. Thanks for all you do.
    Thank you for a very good and honest post. Hopefully more will see your post and think before they join Nicks Association of Certifed Inspectors!

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  43. #43
    David Nice's Avatar
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    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    Thank you for a very good and honest post. Hopefully more will see your post and think before they join Nicks Association of Certifed Inspectors!
    One would have to wonder how someone with 10 years experience in construction would think that ANY exam would somehow mean that he should not get training. At least he got some. It is important to get as much training as you can get and keep a regular schedule of continuing education.

    The fact remains that both other organizations will take your money and allow you to go out and perform up to 100-250 on the unsuspecting pubic without an kind of test whatsoever. I guess that is should be some sort of consolation the NAHI and ASHI didn't "certify"them. You still get to plaster the SOP's and COE's on your website and after 50 inspections an ASHI member gets to use the logo. None of that is necessarily bad as long as members do like Michael did and get lots of training. Even his mentor is a member of all three organizations as well as being a CMI.

    People should think before they join any organization,get plenty of training and join the organization that is going to do the most to support you. I'm not sure that NAHI is a good choice, since there is a good chance they may not be around a whole lot longer.


  44. #44
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    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    Quote Originally Posted by David Nice View Post
    One would have to wonder how someone with 10 years experience in construction would think that ANY exam would somehow mean that he should not get training. At least he got some. It is important to get as much training as you can get and keep a regular schedule of continuing education.
    Good point.

    The fact remains that both other organizations will take your money and allow you to go out and perform up to 100-250 on the unsuspecting pubic without an kind of test whatsoever. I guess that is should be some sort of consolation the NAHI and ASHI didn't "certify"them. You still get to plaster the SOP's and COE's on your website and after 50 inspections an ASHI member gets to use the logo. None of that is necessarily bad as long as members do like Michael did and get lots of training. Even his mentor is a member of all three organizations as well as being a CMI.
    David, your Kool Aid cup is getting low you need to refill it! Yes, you can join ASHI and NAHI without any test. The same can be said about Nicks Club NACHI. The online quiz is not a test by any means or standards. It is an embarrisment to the testing profession. Heck, a person can have a stand-in take the test and then put their name on it. No qualifications to join NACHI and have the instant Certification! Pay your $289 to Nick, play with the quiz and you are a Certified Home Inspector! What an embarrisment to the profession.

    Did you know that Nick will allow the NHIE to qualify in place of the quiz he offers! Yet, he won't make it a requirement to join. Why? Because he would not have the numbers of folks joining. He would be out of business!

    People should think before they join any organization,get plenty of training and join the organization that is going to do the most to support you. I'm not sure that NAHI is a good choice, since there is a good chance they may not be around a whole lot longer.
    NAHI will be around, they have a loyal group of about 2,000 home inspectors across the country. Nick is not going to put them out of business like he is predicting. Frankly as the real estate market checks itself, I see NACHI suffering as the new inspectors fail and leave the business. It is happening every day. In my area out of the 45 or so inspectors that are listed only 19 are still in business or their phones are ringing. My marketing company calls and shops the competition every 120 days and the numbers are going down.... Funny thing is that my business is getting better and better.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  45. #45
    David Nice's Avatar
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    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    Good point.



    David, your Kool Aid cup is getting low you need to refill it! Yes, you can join ASHI and NAHI without any test. The same can be said about Nicks Club NACHI. The online quiz is not a test by any means or standards. It is an embarrisment to the testing profession. Heck, a person can have a stand-in take the test and then put their name on it. No qualifications to join NACHI and have the instant Certification! Pay your $289 to Nick, play with the quiz and you are a Certified Home Inspector! What an embarrisment to the profession.
    You are entitled to your opinion, but the embarrassment is that even before (or after) full membership it is no less likely that an inspector will do a bad inspection form any of the 3 organizations.


  46. #46
    David Nice's Avatar
    David Nice Guest

    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post

    NAHI will be around, they have a loyal group of about 2,000 home inspectors across the country. Nick is not going to put them out of business like he is predicting. Frankly as the real estate market checks itself, I see NACHI suffering as the new inspectors fail and leave the business. It is happening every day. In my area out of the 45 or so inspectors that are listed only 19 are still in business or their phones are ringing. My marketing company calls and shops the competition every 120 days and the numbers are going down.... Funny thing is that my business is getting better and better.
    Just to be clear, Nick never suggested that HE would put them out of business. He predicted that they would not survive. They seem to be doing that to themselves. I also have it on good authority that loyalty is pretty soft, even among the remaining 1700 or so. One saving grace is that memberships are 1 year long, so unless they lose their non-profit status (which could happen) or spend all there money on lawsuits, they are safe for at least a year or two. If I were a betting man, I would bet they don't make it. They seem to have a core group of reactionaries that are destined to shoot themselves in the foot.

    Yes, due to the market slump, the numbers of inspectors are shrinking and that lowers the memberships all the way around. The advantage NACHI does have is the focus on marketing (should the members take advantage).

    We lost a few here too but we also have not been actively seeking new members since February (around when the 10.000 cap was announced). Now that some went out of business, left or were kicked out it is likely we will start doing so (at least locally).

    I don't wish going out of business on anyone, but it is bound to be helpful to those of us that remain standing.


  47. #47
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    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    Quote Originally Posted by David Nice View Post
    Just to be clear, Nick never suggested that HE would put them out of business. He predicted that they would not survive. They seem to be doing that to themselves. I also have it on good authority that loyalty is pretty soft, even among the remaining 1700 or so. One saving grace is that memberships are 1 year long, so unless they lose their non-profit status (which could happen) or spend all there money on lawsuits, they are safe for at least a year or two. If I were a betting man, I would bet they don't make it. They seem to have a core group of reactionaries that are destined to shoot themselves in the foot.

    Yes, due to the market slump, the numbers of inspectors are shrinking and that lowers the memberships all the way around. The advantage NACHI does have is the focus on marketing (should the members take advantage).

    We lost a few here too but we also have not been actively seeking new members since February (around when the 10.000 cap was announced). Now that some went out of business, left or were kicked out it is likely we will start doing so (at least locally).

    I don't wish going out of business on anyone, but it is bound to be helpful to those of us that remain standing.
    Haven't been "Actively Seeking Members"? What a joke, you can get Free Nachi Membership almost anywhere, online courses, buy this, buy that, go to this meeting, go to that convention,get a Free Membership courtesy of Nick. Nick has also stated, an so have several of his sheep, maybe even you, that the 10,000 member cap is now meaningless now that Nick is going Global, or Galactic as he told me, that was in answer to my questions about his continuing "recruitment" drives, now according to Nick there is no cap, so much for your "membership" being worth "Thousands of $$$$" like he promised.

    As I stated earlier, in Jan. 07' there were 23 Nachi Inspectors in Spokane, now there are 6, in January there were 19 Ashi inspectors, now there are 17. In Feb. there were 10,000 Nachi members, now there are 8600.

    It should be expected that NACHI will lose a larger portion of its membership as times get tough, most of NACHI's membership consists of very new inspectors, most of whom I would bet that don't even meet the 100 inspection requirement to be full members. It's not that they are bad inspectors, it's that so many are new, they lack experience, they have not yet established themselves in business as well as others who have been in business for several years, and many joined just for the designation and planned only on trying out Home Inspection as a business in the first place.

    Other associations require a greater investment in both time and money to become even associate members, a proctored exam that cost $225, membership, a required number of inspections. Those inspectors, even though they may be no better than many new Nachi inspectors, have committed themselves and, in my opinion, are better prepared to get their businesses up and running along with being more capable of surviving tough times.

    As an insider at Nachi David, just how many Full members does Nachi have, and why do so many members leave after the first or second year? Was your MS Forsyth right when she posted on ActiveRain, that according to her, "Behind the Scenes" sources at Nachi, that most members only joined to get their 250 inspections so that they could become true professionals by joining ASHI? Polls on your own message board indicate that she may have been right.


  48. #48
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Mesa AZ
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    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    Just to be clear, Nick never suggested that HE would put them out of business. He predicted that they would not survive

    Do you really believe everthing nick says or predicts?
    A year or so ago he predicted this site would be gone, the same site your now using to solicit [ to very little success ] new members/ sheep for nick.

    Five years ago he predicted ASHI would be gone, since then their member #s nearly doubled..

    Less than a year ago he claimed nachi had a 99% renewal rate, since than 90% of his az inspectors are gone, his new member growth has been less that 10%


  49. #49
    Michael Greenwalt's Avatar
    Michael Greenwalt Guest

    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    Just to be clear, Nick never suggested that HE would put them out of business. He predicted that they would not survive.

    To be real clear, Nick DID say that HE would put NAHI inspectors out of business. To be more clear I still have the email HE sent making exactly that claim. To be more clear HE made said claim on more than one occasion. To be crystal clear HE said specifically it was HIS mission to destroy NAHI, its inspectors, and that lying was ok if it helped to accomplish that. And those are specifics that HE....meaning NICK G. said. Oh, and HE knows I have that email, and HE suddenly stopped sending said emails when the NAHI v NACHI lawsuit was made. I wonder if that was because his attorneys recommended that HE stop? Possibly but there could be other reasons.

    Just to be clear.


  50. #50
    Michael Greenwalt's Avatar
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    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    Oh and David, if you can read past third grade level. *no insult intended just a point of order*, I said specifically that I thought school would be a breeze...didn't need to study. I never said I didn't think I needed school. If I thought that I doubt I would have spent 5K attending a school. There is a difference there, a big difference. FYI


  51. #51
    David Nice's Avatar
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    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Greenwalt View Post
    Just to be clear, Nick never suggested that HE would put them out of business. He predicted that they would not survive.

    To be real clear, Nick DID say that HE would put NAHI inspectors out of business. To be more clear I still have the email HE sent making exactly that claim. To be more clear HE made said claim on more than one occasion. To be crystal clear HE said specifically it was HIS mission to destroy NAHI, its inspectors, and that lying was ok if it helped to accomplish that. And those are specifics that HE....meaning NICK G. said. Oh, and HE knows I have that email, and HE suddenly stopped sending said emails when the NAHI v NACHI lawsuit was made. I wonder if that was because his attorneys recommended that HE stop? Possibly but there could be other reasons.

    Just to be clear.
    One would have expected that to be included as some sort of evidence, but then the timing or the context of the alleged email may have made it less than useful.


  52. #52
    David Nice's Avatar
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    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Greenwalt View Post
    Oh and David, if you can read past third grade level. *no insult intended just a point of order*, I said specifically that I thought school would be a breeze...didn't need to study. I never said I didn't think I needed school. If I thought that I doubt I would have spent 5K attending a school. There is a difference there, a big difference. FYI
    Point of order? Is that how you cover an insult? If you didn't intend it as an insult you would have started your message with "I said specifically..." I tend to ignore juvenile remarks like that but an attempt to disguise it as something else is disingenuous at best.

    On you point, I see the difference between what you said and what I interpreted that to mean. I am sure you can understand the interpretation when you previously said "I now had all I needed, the standards, ethics, and the inspector test. I had passed, and with a very high score indeed. I thought I was on the road to success."

    Either way I get your point. It is important that no inspector rely on any exam but recognize that continued education and training is an ongoing and integral part of being a home inspector, and some need more than others.


  53. #53
    Michael Greenwalt's Avatar
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    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    I assume sometimes that by asking a question the person can answer it for themselves. I do not know your reading level but it certainly came to mind given my original statement and your intrepretation of it. If you took it as an insult I apologize, none was intended.

    As for the email, I probably should not have mentioned it since I cannot release it. For now, the only people whom know if its authenticity is myself, Nick G., and those to whom it has been released for its use in verifying Nick G's involvement, intentions, and actions. I do take solace in knowing that Nick G is fully aware of the words he wrote, and that is good enough for me.

    Last edited by Michael Greenwalt; 08-31-2007 at 11:16 AM. Reason: brevity

  54. #54
    David Nice's Avatar
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    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Greenwalt View Post

    As for the email, I probably should not have mentioned it since I cannot release it.
    That is right. I really don't care about the content of emails that are not sent to me or addressed to me. Apparently, whatever the content was it has been determined (or rendered) useless in proving any claims that will make any difference. It is also pretty hard to admit something into evidence when the party that would do so has "unclean hands".


  55. #55
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    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    Quote Originally Posted by David Nice View Post
    It is also pretty hard to admit something into evidence when the party that would do so has "unclean hands".
    Or two faces for that matter... I have a hunch that you were catching a glimpse of the other one.


  56. #56
    Michael Greenwalt's Avatar
    Michael Greenwalt Guest

    Default Re: NAHI FIGHTS BACK

    Ummm,,,Huh?


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