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  1. #1
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    Default What would get you to attend?

    I am requesting your help in drafting an ivitation for inspectors and the general public to come meet with the Real Estate Commission to have their voices heard.
    Any input would be appreciated.

    Please let's not get into the pros and cons of in$urance. I'm looking for editorial input, only.

    Dear fellow inspectors and concerned citizens,

    This may be the last chance to have your voice heard. The TREC commissioners will meet again on October 8, 2007 at 9:00 am. If you believe the mandated insurance coverage rules will negatively impact, in any way, real estate consumers, your profession, livelihood and family I request you take action and join me, clients, family members, friends and my peers in bringing our concerns before the commission. The commissioners can, if we can be persuasive enough and they choose to, have a final ruling (vote) on this matter before the Attorney General review is completed.

    As you probably already know there is already verbiage in our profession’s Occupations Code that disallows negligence, incompetence and dishonesty in our profession.

    These acts are against the laws of our state and a recovery fund is already in place for consumers, to cover these events when they do occur in our profession.


    TEXAS OCCUPATIONS CODE

    CHAPTER 1102. REAL ESTATE INSPECTORS


    SUBCHAPTER G. PROHIBITED ACTS



    § 1102.301. NEGLIGENCE OR INCOMPETENCE. An inspector may

    not perform a real estate inspection in a negligent or incompetent

    manner.



    § 1102.302. AGREEMENT FOR SPECIFIC REPORT;

    DISHONESTY. An inspector may not:

    (1) accept an assignment for real estate inspection if

    the employment or a fee is contingent on the reporting of:

    (A) a specific, predetermined condition of the

    improvements to real property; or

    (B) specific findings other than those that the

    inspector knows to be true when the assignment is accepted; or

    (2) act in a manner or engage in a practice that:

    (A) is dishonest or fraudulent; or

    (B) involves deceit or misrepresentation.



    § 1102.305. VIOLATION OF LAW. An inspector may not

    violate this chapter or a rule adopted by the commission.



    SUBCHAPTER H. REAL ESTATE INSPECTION RECOVERY FUND



    § 1102.351. REAL ESTATE INSPECTION RECOVERY FUND. The

    commission shall maintain a real estate inspection recovery fund to

    reimburse aggrieved persons who suffer actual damages from an

    inspector's act in violation of Subchapter G. The inspector must

    have held a license at the time the act was committed.



    Errors & Omissions and General Liability insurance do not, cannot and will not cover any of the above acts. Nor do they benefit Texas consumers in any way. There is no insurance coverage available on this planet that will cover an inspector if and when these events occur.
    Mandating these coverage’s is like saying it is against the law to rob banks but here is some insurance you can purchase just in case you what to make robbing banks your chosen career path.


    In closing I hope to see everyone receiving this in Austin October 8, 2007 at 9:00 am



    Street Address:
    Texas Real Estate Commission
    1101 Camino La Costa
    Austin, TX 78752
    Map to TREC
    Driving Directions to TREC

    Phone:
    (512) 459-6544 or 1-800-250-TREC (8732)

    Hours:
    8:00 a.m. - 5:00 p.m. Monday - Friday

    Please feel free to pass this on to anyone you know that could be impacted by these new rules and contact me by e-mail or by phone after 6pm any day of the week.

    Similar Threads:
    OREP Home Inspector E&O Insurance 2
    badair http://www.adairinspection.com Garland, TX 75042 TREC # 4563
    Commercial-Residential-Construction-EIFS-Infrared Thermography
    life is the random lottery of events followed by numerous narrow escapes

  2. #2
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    Default Re: What would get you to attend?

    Unfortunately, I will be unable to attend because of the anticipated birth of my first grand daughter.

    The following is a quote extracted from Business Insurance Now
    Professional Liability Insurance - Errors and Omissions Insurance Policy (E&O Insurance)
    It is very important for you to be aware that virtually all professional liability insurance policies are issued on a claims-made basis. That means that coverage is only provided for work that is done during the policy period and for claims that are filed (made) during the policy period. In effect, if an E&O insurance policy is cancelled, and no provision is made for an extended reporting period, then all coverage stops and it is as if you never had a policy.

    I sincerely hope that someone who does attend makes the above point under the hardship category. All Texas Inspectors should understand that from the first day of this requirement, the least they should carry the Insurance is for four years after they stop inspecting. The dog dirt cheapest I have read about to date is $1750/year for $100K coverage. That translates into $7000 minimum cost with no income associated AFTER YOU ARE NO LONGER INSPECTING.

    The only reason some people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
    - Paul Fix

  3. #3
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    Default Re: What would get you to attend?

    Barry, I don't think TREC can do anything with our comments whether they want to or not.
    It is the law for the next two years unless the Governor calls a special session which ain't likely since he signed the bill into law.
    Giving them our opinion might make us feel better, but TREC's hands are tied. They have no choice, they have to enforce the law as it is given to them.
    Jim

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Dallas, Texas

  4. #4
    Richard Stanley's Avatar
    Richard Stanley Guest

    Default Re: What would get you to attend?

    a boycott would work better.


  5. #5
    Richard Rushing's Avatar
    Richard Rushing Guest

    Default Re: What would get you to attend?

    Wouldn't work Stanley... there are too many prostitutes out there that would sell there ass in-order to get business.

    Think of the new folks who are just starting out. Times are tough with the lack of work and the market down. Seeing an opportunity to fill in where others drop off has been the crack in that 'dam' that would ever prevent it from getting off the ground.


  6. #6
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    Default Re: What would get you to attend?

    Jim,

    Yes the commissioners can, I met with Fred and Brad yesterday, the commissioners already have passed an interpretation that they had to submit under pressure from saner minds (IC and others) to the AG for his clarification.
    Perry thinks this is bad for consumers and commissioners are looking for an escape clause. Let's give them one!
    Numerous commissioners are on the fence over this one and our presence in Austin 10/08/07 would have a favorable impact upon their decision making.
    One day out of my schedule to change what will affect my business for the rest of my career is a no brainer to me. Hope you are of the same opinion and I get to stand beside you.

    Richard S.,

    Please explain how your boycott theory would work.

    RR,

    I already know how your theory works.

    BTW here is some info published by TAREI earlier this year.

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    Last edited by BARRY ADAIR; 08-18-2007 at 09:39 AM.
    badair http://www.adairinspection.com Garland, TX 75042 TREC # 4563
    Commercial-Residential-Construction-EIFS-Infrared Thermography
    life is the random lottery of events followed by numerous narrow escapes

  7. #7
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    Default Re: What would get you to attend?

    Thom,
    CONGRATULATIONS, big guy!
    Say hi to the family.

    BTW in Texas it is 2 years after discovery, whatever that means, so in reality because of TRCC 10 year warranty coverage this may actually be necessary for 12 years after you retire, is what I have heard.

    badair http://www.adairinspection.com Garland, TX 75042 TREC # 4563
    Commercial-Residential-Construction-EIFS-Infrared Thermography
    life is the random lottery of events followed by numerous narrow escapes

  8. #8
    John Brown's Avatar
    John Brown Guest

    Default Re: What would get you to attend?

    Hello fellow professionals. According to IN database, I have not posted to this gnu site. Glad to have made the transition.

    I am indebted to all of you who post here.

    Some random musings:

    Re: TX ins*rance. There is the feeling out there amongst some full-timers that this is an opportunity to make lemons into lemonade. E&O will get the part-timers and the low-ballers out of the picture, so that the we can all do a better job, and charge accordingly.

    As part of overhead, $2K a year is nothing. Easy to get to $20K a year expenses if you are full time. My medical ins has doubled in the last 5 years, with no claims.

    If you are a newbie and are chafing at the ins requirement, well yes at one time newcomers got a flashlight and a screwdriver and a clipboard and were able to slowly transition into the biz. But standards have changed. This has turned into a profession, and the public expects quality. HIs have to keep up with masses of information regarding products, codes, etc.

    For the seasoned low-ballers, if you want to keep doing your 1983 report in 2007, I can tell you one of these days you will have a claim, and a 2007 inspector is going to clean your clock. And the jury is going to listen to the 2007 inspector and agree that standards have changed and why the hell are you doing 5 jobs a day with a two page checklist.

    I do not have an answer for how new folks are supposed to enter the profession and do good work, other than work under supervision. Most guys I know who "sponsored" new HIs, trained them, and made a little money off them, ended up getting ripped off in the long run, despite non-compete clauses, which are a joke.

    When I see fees out there of 195+ (with coupon), basically these folks are working for free, only they don't know it.

    Lecturer at ASHI Anaheim Jan 2007 said that the numbers of E&O claims have gone down in the past few years, but the actual claim $ amount has gone up. He attributed this to higher quality work being done in the field.

    TREC knows that a lot of HIs out there are freaking out. I don't think showing up will do anything to change things.

    TX HIs don't have to show ins cert until renewal, so with the two year renewal cycle, everyone won't be on board until summer of 2009. This will keep the drooling lawyers guessing.

    The downside of the ins requirement is that in theory after a couple of claims you get cut off, and yes there will be some outfit out there willing to take you on for $15K a year, but at that point I go back to serving fries at the Chikin-Lickin'. At least there you can't get sued.

    Mailman is bringing all sorts of E&O offers. Allstate today. FREA magically has created a $100K policy. What a coincidence!

    JB


  9. #9
    Aaron Miller's Avatar
    Aaron Miller Guest

    Default Re: What would get you to attend?

    Barry:

    I have contacted everyone contactable at TREC since the inception of this insurance issue, to no avail. Dr. Thorburn tried to give me some kind of answer before he left the building, but nothing of substance. Loretta DeHay could not give a straight answer to the question, "what day is this?", the rest of the staff is both clueless and listless.

    They bascially assumed the law meant E&O and not general liability, passed the football to the OAG and mum's the word. They could not give a **** less what happens to inspectors.

    Idealism is great. So, go there and be idealistic. Take your thermal camera gimmick gizmo with you and see if there is a beating heart in any of the suits present at the meeting.

    Let us know,

    Aaron


  10. #10
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    Default Re: What would get you to attend?

    John,
    Welcome to the board.

    You are probably right concerning whether or not Inspectors showing at the Committee meeting will produce any changes to what they intend to do. However, I believe you are dead wrong concerning whether it will "change things." To date, Texas Inspectors have been like frightened little children regarding TREC. When accused of infractions the majority have rolled over and taken whatever is meted out because they were more afraid of resisting authority than they were of the sanctions.

    TREC sets the standard for inefficient bureaucracy. For anyone who is willing to read the sunset commission report, their inefficiency is undeniable. Though it is my understanding that they provided different figures to the commission, their PUBLISHED DATA GIVEN TO CONSUMERS via the TREC website made it clear that their was no logic or reason, with respect to consumer protection, for the McCall amendment to have been introduced.

    The value of having large numbers of inspectors show at that meeting will be determined by the attitude of those attending. If your attitude is to be humble, polite, respectful; stay home. TREC already knows you are afraid of them.

    However, if you are willing to stand united as adults and address the public employees you pay, you can accomplish a great deal. Not the least of these is to put them on notice that MANDATORY ins. for inspectors without MANDATORY ins. requirements for Realtors AND attorneys involved in Real Estate transactions is discriminatory and does not serve the interest of the consumer. By getting that on the public record, you are serving notice to TAR that their lack of support for us in the last legislative session was not overlooked.

    Get this straight. You are dealing with bureucrats and politicians. Morality and justice have nothing to do with any of this. A show of force that may result in their public images being damaged is the only thing that matters. From the commission's viewpoint, they need to show a profit to the State. That's why you see the majority of complaints and sanctions issued by TREC as administrative sanction. The minority of complaints are brought by consumers.

    Never mind. I give up. I don't think you could get 12 Texas Inspectors to stand up together against child sexual abuse. Why should they invest the effort to fight something as insignificant as their livlihoods? At this point a show of force has nothing to do with ins. It has everything to do with letting TREC, TAR, McCall, and the legislators know that they are dealing with men and human beings, not with lambs and open pocketbooks.

    As long as I'm this pissed off, let me end by saying, "Screw TAREI, NACHI, ASHI, NAHI, NSHI, Mitsubishi, and all the other HI"s in the language. All any of them have been to this point are self serving entities that divide inspectors. To date, they have achieved licensing standards. Though I believe that has been an improvement for the consumer, NOT ONE of these organizations has demonstrated a concern or effort to make the lives of their memberships better. So yes, you had better show and stand for yourselves because no one else is standing for you.

    Last edited by Thom Walker; 08-18-2007 at 01:38 PM. Reason: wrong word
    The only reason some people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
    - Paul Fix

  11. #11
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    Default Re: What would get you to attend?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Miller View Post
    Barry:
    Idealism is great. So, go there and be idealistic.
    Let us know,
    Aaron
    I have found there are three kinds of people:
    those who make things happen,
    those who watch things happen,
    and those who wonder what happened.

    Take charge of your life or someone else will.

    I'll be on the front row how about you?


    badair http://www.adairinspection.com Garland, TX 75042 TREC # 4563
    Commercial-Residential-Construction-EIFS-Infrared Thermography
    life is the random lottery of events followed by numerous narrow escapes

  12. #12
    Aaron Miller's Avatar
    Aaron Miller Guest

    Default Re: What would get you to attend?

    Quote Originally Posted by BARRY ADAIR View Post
    I have found there are three kinds of people:
    those who make things happen,
    those who watch things happen,
    and those who wonder what happened.

    Take charge of your life or someone else will.

    I'll be on the front row how about you?
    Barry:

    Which of those three types of people that you recognize is the type prone to overgeneralizations? The actor, the viewer or the drooler? Which one are you?

    It seems to me that if inspectors in this country spent less time, including in places like this forum, launching ad hominem attacks against one another, constructive things might happen.

    I wish you well in taking charge of my life, Barry. Pardon me if I don't camp out all night waiting on a ticket to that show.

    Aaron


  13. #13
    Richard Rushing's Avatar
    Richard Rushing Guest

    Default Re: What would get you to attend?

    Quote Originally Posted by BARRY ADAIR View Post
    Jim,

    Richard S.,

    Please explain how your boycott theory would work.

    RR,

    I already know how your theory works.

    BTW here is some info published by TAREI earlier this year.
    Badair,
    So... do you believe different? Do you not believe there will always be those out there breaking the 'picket-line' of boycot.

    I'm with Thom when he says;
    "Never mind. I give up. I don't think you could get 12 Texas Inspectors to stand up together against child sexual abuse. Why should they invest the effort to fight something as insignificant as their livlihoods? At this point a show of force has nothing to do with ins. It has everything to do with letting TREC, TAR, McCall, and the legislators know that they are dealing with men and human beings, not with lambs and open pocketbooks."

    Is the stand needed... hell-yeah! Will it happen...doubtful.


  14. #14
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    Default Re: What would get you to attend?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Miller View Post
    Barry:

    Which of those three types of people that you recognize is the type prone to overgeneralizations? The actor, the viewer or the drooler? Which one are you?

    It seems to me that if inspectors in this country spent less time, including in places like this forum, launching ad hominem attacks against one another, constructive things might happen.

    I wish you well in taking charge of my life, Barry. Pardon me if I don't camp out all night waiting on a ticket to that show.

    Aaron
    Aaron,

    I'll be taking charge of my life.

    My statement wasn't a personal attack just an observation of mankind and a personal invitation, sorry you took it differently.

    I accept your rejection of my offer.

    badair http://www.adairinspection.com Garland, TX 75042 TREC # 4563
    Commercial-Residential-Construction-EIFS-Infrared Thermography
    life is the random lottery of events followed by numerous narrow escapes

  15. #15
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    Default Re: What would get you to attend?

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Rushing View Post
    Badair,
    So... do you believe different? Negative Do you not believe there will always be those out there breaking the 'picket-line' of boycot. Yep, always have and always will


    I'm with Thom when he says;
    "Never mind. I give up. I don't think you could get 12 Texas Inspectors to stand up together against child sexual abuse. Why should they invest the effort to fight something as insignificant as their livlihoods? At this point a show of force has nothing to do with ins. It has everything to do with letting TREC, TAR, McCall, and the legislators know that they are dealing with men and human beings, not with lambs and open pocketbooks."

    Is the stand needed... hell-yeah! Will it happen...doubtful.
    My ex used to tell our kid can't never could and won't never will

    I refuse to take an attitude of apathy on this one.

    It's really not that difficult just get in the car and head down I-35, just wait 'til the 8th of October. Hell I'll come by and pick you up if that's what it takes. You're not that far out of the way.

    badair http://www.adairinspection.com Garland, TX 75042 TREC # 4563
    Commercial-Residential-Construction-EIFS-Infrared Thermography
    life is the random lottery of events followed by numerous narrow escapes

  16. #16
    Aaron Miller's Avatar
    Aaron Miller Guest

    Default Re: What would get you to attend?

    Quote Originally Posted by BARRY ADAIR View Post
    My ex used to tell our kid can't never could and won't never will

    I refuse to take an attitude of apathy on this one.

    It's really not that difficult just get in the car and head down I-35, just wait 'til the 8th of October. Hell I'll come by and pick you up if that's what it takes. You're not that far out of the way.
    Barry:

    Again, I salute your idealistic attitude and your willingness to spend the time butting heads with the TREC flying monkeys. I did my multi-year stint in that role and have now moved on to attempting to affect them from another angle. You can never be an insider there. No matter what size crowd you draw, they have no obligation to listen to you. Their agenda is not the same as yours and never will be.

    Take a hint from just the most recent events: the demise of the TRECIC, the requirement for E&O, the long list of inspectors being sanctioned for dubious regulation infractions, et al.

    Want to make a difference in Austin? Ask your wife to hand you down your shootin' iron before you go. Take an extra box of bullets. There's a lot of 'em.

    Aaron


  17. #17
    John Brown's Avatar
    John Brown Guest

    Default Re: What would get you to attend?

    Hi Thom+,

    --------------------------------------------------------
    As long as I'm this pissed off, let me end by saying, "Screw TAREI, NACHI, ASHI, NAHI, NSHI, Mitsubishi, and all the other HI"s .''
    --------------------------------------------------------

    Does this mean you're gonna take away my sushi? Say it aint so!

    Guys (and gals?), we are going to be tossed around like ragdolls as long as the agents run the show. They liked the present situation, with a steady stream of newbies coming out of the schools doing bare-bones inspections for a pittance, eager not to displease the agent that threw them a bone. I love it when an agent sarcastically asks for one of my cards, and then I see her out by her car tearing it up into itty bitty pieces.

    The ins requirement is a blessing in disguise. Just think, next year you won't have to compete with the lawn service-trash hauling-sheetrock repair-home inspector companies any more. They will bail out. If prices go up, and the gusher of new inspectors turns down to a trickle, either we will make more money, or the agents will storm the state house and demand the repeal of the ins requirement.

    Confucius said (or maybe it was Dr. Phil), "with tribulation comes opportunity."

    John B


  18. #18
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    Default Re: What would get you to attend?

    Don't be ridiculous. I would never screw sushi. Now, I've seen some sashimi that I've had some special thoughts about.

    The only reason some people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
    - Paul Fix

  19. #19
    Richard Stanley's Avatar
    Richard Stanley Guest

    Default Re: What would get you to attend?

    sorry I missed few days....

    Rushing - "Wouldn't work Stanley... there are too many prostitutes out there that would sell there ass in-order to get business."

    Thats the truth. A boycott would have to be at least 75 -80% full participation with media attention. And even then, it may not be enough.

    Further-
    The law says new license and renewals effective 9/1/07. The TREC website says that renewals susequent to 9/1/07 "MAY" (not will) have to show proof of coverage from 9/1/07.
    I do not want to purchase the insurance until I have to. My renewal is 9/08.

    For those of you that have license expirations after 9/1/07, are you buying for coverage effective 9/1/07??


  20. #20
    Richard Stanley's Avatar
    Richard Stanley Guest

    Default Re: What would get you to attend?

    Robert
    Thanks for the info. I'm thinking that if your license is good until sometime after 9/1/07, they should not be able to require retro active coverage for future renewal. That is also contradictory to the langauge in the legislation.
    What company are you using for the e & o? What deductible?


  21. #21
    Nolan Kienitz's Avatar
    Nolan Kienitz Guest

    Default Re: What would get you to attend?

    Robert and all ...

    I just sent the same inquiry to TREC and will likely get an email reply stating same. I'll post it once I get it.

    As for E&O quotes: Don't hesitate to check with State Farm. Not all agents are aware that SF provides E&O. My agent is up to speed with E&O and I can provide you with his contact information via 'off-line' email.

    Here are the rates I was quoted:

    $250K - $1404/annual - retention (deduct) $2500 for all levels of coverage
    $300K - $1577/annual
    $500K - $1728/annual
    $1M - $2160/annual

    Does not appear that SF (along with many other companies) provide quotes for $100K coverage. Also ... $100K coverage really won't get you much in the scheme of things.

    Payment schedule is: annual, semi-annual or quarterly (no service charge for the extended payment plans)

    Last edited by Nolan Kienitz; 08-21-2007 at 07:31 AM. Reason: added deductible rate

  22. #22
    Richard Stanley's Avatar
    Richard Stanley Guest

    Default Re: What would get you to attend?

    An inspector friend of mine got a quote from SF -$2200. (I didn't ask him the amount and deduct)
    I called a local agent - said they didn't handle it.
    Apparently some do - some don't - and different $$$.
    Naplia is the lowest I found. 100k - 2500 deduct - 1460


  23. #23
    Nolan Kienitz's Avatar
    Nolan Kienitz Guest

    Default Re: What would get you to attend?

    Richard,

    That rate would be high compared to SF.

    You can call my agent. He will get a quote submitted for you. None of the local agents can directly quote it. The requests all have to go through a central office in IL somewhere.

    The local agent is the person providing the data back and forth from that central office to you.

    Send me a message off-line and I can provide his contact information.

    nolan@nolansinspections.com


  24. #24
    Nolan Kienitz's Avatar
    Nolan Kienitz Guest

    Default Re: What would get you to attend?

    RE: Current view of E&O and prior coverage. Devon sent me the below information that synchs up with Robert Smith's phone call to TREC.

    Devon replied based upon the question I placed based on my license renewal date of April - 2008.


    Quote:
    Before renewing your license next spring, you will have to show proof of insurance in effect from April 2008 forward. It is not until the spring of 2010 that you will most likely have to show proof that you were continuously covered during the preceding license period (April 1, 2008-March 31, 2010).

    I hope that clarifies your situation. Please let me know if you have any further questions.


    Devon V. Bijansky
    UnQuote


  25. #25
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    Default Re: What would get you to attend?

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Stanley View Post
    sorry I missed few days....

    Rushing - "Wouldn't work Stanley... there are too many prostitutes out there that would sell there ass in-order to get business."

    Thats the truth. A boycott would have to be at least 75 -80% full participation with media attention. And even then, it may not be enough.

    Further-
    The law says new license and renewals effective 9/1/07. The TREC website says that renewals susequent to 9/1/07 "MAY" (not will) have to show proof of coverage from 9/1/07.
    I do not want to purchase the insurance until I have to. My renewal is 9/08.

    For those of you that have license expirations after 9/1/07, are you buying for coverage effective 9/1/07??
    Not a chance.

    The only reason some people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
    - Paul Fix

  26. #26
    wade chapman's Avatar
    wade chapman Guest

    Default Re: What would get you to attend?

    Why dosent every body contact there local rep and let them Know they will not get there vote, or support them since the law passed with out any nay's from any the senate. I here a lot complants about trec not justifying trec, and please dont ask me what I think about trec, But there hands are tied.
    We need to go after the idots who think they are running this state.
    I have let my rep know that since this bill went thru with out any"Nay"votes I will fight them election time. and if in 2009 they dont recend this bill I will keep fighting them I dont Care if they are rep. Or demo.. And I have told Gov perry since he did not veto this bill he will not get my vote next time. He and they know the fact is that TAR or insurance scum bags dont care about the consumer. I Know That the Senate And Perry dont care about consumer but they do want to stay in office because all they think about is power.


  27. #27
    Aaron Miller's Avatar
    Aaron Miller Guest

    Talking Re: What would get you to attend?

    Quote Originally Posted by BARRY ADAIR View Post
    Aaron,

    I'll be taking charge of my life.

    My statement wasn't a personal attack just an observation of mankind and a personal invitation, sorry you took it differently.

    I accept your rejection of my offer.
    Barry:

    Actually, there is one way to defeat TREC while continuing to work as usual. Of course this would take the cooperation of the all the inspectors, to include those who whore themselves out to the agents. I doubt that they could get their heads out the agents' laps long enough to even listen to this.

    A former member of the TRECIC has been a proponent for years of conducting inspections outside the authority of TREC. One would simply have their client sign an agreement that states you are departing from the TREC SOP and that this is not an inspection, but actually a construction consultation. You could then use any form you liked for reporting and could dispense with TREC forever.

    Of course, for legal purposes, I am not advocating this. God knows Loretta DeHay and her band of wanabees would love to say so. But, you may want to ask your attorney about the possibility.

    By the way, don't anyone think even for a minute that the E&O requirement will actually shake out the flakes of the industry. Once it is mandated the prices will go down and business will go on as usual for the $150-inspection-nose-in-the-realtor's-crotch-pond-scum. TREC would never allow something to disturb their little game.

    Aaron


  28. #28
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    Default Re: What would get you to attend?

    Markets, any market, all markets operate on catalysts of fear & greed, the home inspection profession is no exception to the rule.

    For home inspectors the greed portion of the equation relates directly to those inspectors who petition their legislators to include language in their bill that they believe would reduce their competition, the net result has been that legislators rarely if ever comply.

    Fear comes with the realization that more and more resources will need to be expended to comply with the added burden of licensing without any significant rise in benefit to the inspector.

    Hopefully those states not yet infected with the contagion of licensing will use Texas as an example of good intentions gone bad and continue to fight for the principals of liberty.


  29. #29
    Chad Fabry's Avatar
    Chad Fabry Guest

    Default Re: What would get you to attend?

    Joe,

    The "Principals of Liberty" are a group of school administrators who play classic rock and wear hats to conceal their baldness.


  30. #30
    RobertSmith's Avatar
    RobertSmith Guest

    Default Re: What would get you to attend?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Miller View Post
    Barry:

    Actually, there is one way to defeat TREC while continuing to work as usual. Of course this would take the cooperation of the all the inspectors, to include those who whore themselves out to the agents. I doubt that they could get their heads out the agents' laps long enough to even listen to this.

    Aaron
    Aarons' thought is intriguing but I'm not sure it would hold up in court!

    However, "whats good for the goose, is good for the gander".....

    Option 1) At the 11th hour in the next session have a state representative attach to an amendment to a bill (any bill-doesn't matter) to remove inspectors out of the umbrella of TREC as well as to not allow real estate agents to refer (in any way, shape, or form) inspectors.

    or ,

    Option 2) we could have a state representative propose a bill to remove inspectors from TREC and then lobby all the representatives to support it as well as to not allow real estate agents to refer (in any way, shape, or form) inspectors. This is the proper process but is far more difficult than option 1!


  31. #31
    Aaron Miller's Avatar
    Aaron Miller Guest

    Default Re: What would get you to attend?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Burkeson View Post
    Markets, any market, all markets operate on catalysts of fear & greed, the home inspection profession is no exception to the rule.

    For home inspectors the greed portion of the equation relates directly to those inspectors who petition their legislators to include language in their bill that they believe would reduce their competition, the net result has been that legislators rarely if ever comply.

    Fear comes with the realization that more and more resources will need to be expended to comply with the added burden of licensing without any significant rise in benefit to the inspector.

    Hopefully those states not yet infected with the contagion of licensing will use Texas as an example of good intentions gone bad and continue to fight for the principals of liberty.
    Brendan:

    I agree with you with this exception. I don't think good intentions were ever a part of the forumla. After all we're talking Texas politics here. We are the ones that saddled the rest of the country with the likes of George Bush, Cheney, Rove, Delay, et al. Were their intentions good?

    Perry and his band of thugs would pass a bill approving televised gambling on pit bull fighting by muslim and atheist lesbians for pedophilia in the baptistry of the First Baptist Church in Austin if it profitted them.

    Aaron


  32. #32
    Richard Stanley's Avatar
    Richard Stanley Guest

    Default Re: What would get you to attend?

    "A former member of the TRECIC has been a proponent for years of conducting inspections outside the authority of TREC. One would simply have their client sign an agreement that states you are departing from the TREC SOP and that this is not an inspection, but actually a construction consultation. You could then use any form you liked for reporting and could dispense with TREC forever."

    My assumption is that would be Mr. Foster. Isn't he also a PE? I may be wrong, but, I think PE's can do that.
    However, it is an intriging idea - if its legal. and it would probably take TREC a few years to stop it.
    Can a RE purchaser have anybody take a look at their prospective purchase? Like a contractor? their uncle? etc. I know they used to be able to do that - think they still can. In my RE days, it was not uncommon for someone to say "I'd like my daddy (or whoever) to look at it first". The party does not have to be a licensed RE inspector, I don't think.
    Is it unlawful to "inspect" a home/property for someone if you are not licensed?


  33. #33
    Aaron Miller's Avatar
    Aaron Miller Guest

    Wink Re: What would get you to attend?

    Quote Originally Posted by RobertSmith View Post
    Aarons' thought is intriguing but I'm not sure it would hold up in court!

    However, "whats good for the goose, is good for the gander".....

    Option 1) At the 11th hour in the next session have a state representative attach to an amendment to a bill (any bill-doesn't matter) to remove inspectors out of the umbrella of TREC as well as to not allow real estate agents to refer (in any way, shape, or form) inspectors.

    or ,

    Option 2) we could have a state representative propose a bill to remove inspectors from TREC and then lobby all the representatives to support it as well as to not allow real estate agents to refer (in any way, shape, or form) inspectors. This is the proper process but is far more difficult than option 1!
    Robert:

    The problem with those options is that they require money, and lots of it. No senat slut or house whore makes a move without his or her palm being greased substantially.

    Aaron


  34. #34
    John Brown's Avatar
    John Brown Guest

    Default Re: What would get you to attend?

    Buyer can certainly have Uncle Ernie prepare a 150 page report. The problem is the TREC sales contract (20-6): "INSPECTIONS, ACCESS AND UTILITIES: Buyer may have the Property inspected by inspectors
    selected by Buyer and licensed by TREC or otherwise permitted by law to make inspections."

    So seller can reject repair list prepared by Uncle Ernie. Also seller can bar "non-qualified" folks from inspecting.

    JB


    "Can a RE purchaser have anybody take a look at their prospective purchase? Like a contractor? their uncle? etc. I know they used to be able to do that - think they still can. In my RE days, it was not uncommon for someone to say "I'd like my daddy (or whoever) to look at it first". The party does not have to be a licensed RE inspector, I don't think.
    Is it unlawful to "inspect" a home/property for someone if you are not licensed?[/QUOTE]


  35. #35
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    Default Re: What would get you to attend?

    Is it unlawful to "inspect" a home/property for someone if you are not licensed?
    Yes, if you perform inspections for the public.
    Obviously, uncle Joe can inspect your house for you, but if uncle Joe advertises or presents himself to the public as a home inspector, he has to be licensed.

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Dallas, Texas

  36. #36
    Aaron Miller's Avatar
    Aaron Miller Guest

    Talking Re: What would get you to attend?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall View Post
    Yes, if you perform inspections for the public.
    Obviously, uncle Joe can inspect your house for you, but if uncle Joe advertises or presents himself to the public as a home inspector, he has to be licensed.
    Jim:

    Yes, you must be licensed unless, of course, you are a licensed professional engineer. Now, it makes no difference if residential construction is not your field of expertise; hell no, you can be a bowling ball or brassiere designer and you're good to go. Engineers are such goddamn special folks that they can do damn near everything while knowing almost nothing.

    That must be why a lot of their stuff just does not work.

    Aaron


  37. #37
    Richard Rushing's Avatar
    Richard Rushing Guest

    Default Re: What would get you to attend?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Miller View Post
    Jim:

    Yes, you must be licensed unless, of course, you are a licensed professional engineer. Now, it makes no difference if residential construction is not your field of expertise; hell no, you can be a bowling ball or brassiere designer and you're good to go. Engineers are such goddamn special folks that they can do damn near everything while knowing almost nothing.

    That must be why a lot of their stuff just does not work.

    Aaron

    Damn-it Aaron... quit beating around the bush and tell us what you really think of PE's

    I agree that it's ludicrious that a PE of *ANY* field of expertis can be exempt in the area of real estate inspection/construction-- that's just plain goofy!!


  38. #38
    Deleted Account's Avatar
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    Default Re: What would get you to attend?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Miller View Post
    Jim:

    Yes, you must be licensed unless, of course, you are a licensed professional engineer. Now, it makes no difference if residential construction is not your field of expertise; hell no, you can be a bowling ball or brassiere designer and you're good to go. Engineers are such goddamn special folks that they can do damn near everything while knowing almost nothing.

    That must be why a lot of their stuff just does not work.

    Aaron

    With the current fixation that some associations have with education Home Inspectors likely find themselves becoming people who know less and less about more and more, until they know nothing about everything. While Engineers daily continue to know more and more about less and less, until they know everything about nothing.


  39. #39
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    Default Re: What would get you to attend?

    Quote Originally Posted by wade chapman View Post
    Why dosent every body contact there local rep and let them Know they will not get there vote, or support them since the law passed with out any nay's from any the senate. I here a lot complants about trec not justifying trec, and please dont ask me what I think about trec, But there hands are tied.
    We need to go after the idots who think they are running this state.
    I have let my rep know that since this bill went thru with out any"Nay"votes I will fight them election time. and if in 2009 they dont recend this bill I will keep fighting them I dont Care if they are rep. Or demo.. And I have told Gov perry since he did not veto this bill he will not get my vote next time. He and they know the fact is that TAR or insurance scum bags dont care about the consumer. I Know That the Senate And Perry dont care about consumer but they do want to stay in office because all they think about is power.
    You, Thom, and others are carrying this in the right direction.
    That's been the problem all along is the HI associations trying to play good ol' boy with trec and need to be active with the pols.

    badair http://www.adairinspection.com Garland, TX 75042 TREC # 4563
    Commercial-Residential-Construction-EIFS-Infrared Thermography
    life is the random lottery of events followed by numerous narrow escapes

  40. #40
    Aaron Miller's Avatar
    Aaron Miller Guest

    Talking Re: What would get you to attend?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Burkeson View Post
    With the current fixation that some associations have with education Home Inspectors likely find themselves becoming people who know less and less about more and more, until they know nothing about everything. While Engineers daily continue to know more and more about less and less, until they know everything about nothing.
    Well said.

    What I like the very most is when I look at a foundation blueprint and find that the engineer is not a structural engineer but an electrical engineer - this has happened more than once. I've also seen an A/C system on a million dollar home speced out by an engineer from the telecom industry. A jerk with a manual J.

    These sorts of encounters lead my mind immediately to thoughts of the Hubble telescope, the insulation tiles on the space shuttle, the levees in NOLA, the countless bridges that collapse each year, the ****ing cell phones that take great photos and drop calls like rocks . . . get my drift?

    Aaron


  41. #41
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    Default Re: What would get you to attend?

    Anyone viewing this information about the TREC meeting in October will have to call TREC and ask them when the DAMN meeting is being held. I've just received more e-mails and phone calls with differing dates. Everyone replying to my original is sure that it's the 5th or 8th.

    I just talked to Mary at TREC and she assured me my original information is correct.

    The TREC metting is on October 8, 2007 at 9:00am


    Street Address:
    Texas Real Estate Commission
    1101 Camino La Costa
    Austin, TX 78752
    Map to TREC
    Driving Directions to TREC

    Phone:
    (512) 459-6544 or 1-800-250-TREC (8732)



    Brett,

    Guess you missed my other post #58

    http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_i...i-lawsuit.html


    badair http://www.adairinspection.com Garland, TX 75042 TREC # 4563
    Commercial-Residential-Construction-EIFS-Infrared Thermography
    life is the random lottery of events followed by numerous narrow escapes

  42. #42
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    Default Re: What would get you to attend?

    The attorneys at TREC, under advisement by the IC, reviewed Subchapter G verbiage and decided to send a follow up to the AG to make him aware that criminal or unethical acts are not covered by any type of in$urance.

    Glad to see someone is "on watch"

    http://www.oag.state.tx.us/opinions/...a/RQ0591GA.pdf

    Regardless the TREC meeting is still on.

    Last edited by BARRY ADAIR; 08-25-2007 at 04:21 AM.
    badair http://www.adairinspection.com Garland, TX 75042 TREC # 4563
    Commercial-Residential-Construction-EIFS-Infrared Thermography
    life is the random lottery of events followed by numerous narrow escapes

  43. #43
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    Default Re: What would get you to attend?

    Good info Barry, keep up the good work.
    Jim

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Dallas, Texas

  44. #44
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    Default Re: What would get you to attend?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall View Post
    Good info Barry, keep up the good work.
    Jim
    Donnie, sent this to Paul and I, he gets the credit.



    Brett,
    Where'd ya go?
    I guess you don't want to be associated with our new org. or the likes of me now that the thruth came out.
    One strike and I'm out

    badair http://www.adairinspection.com Garland, TX 75042 TREC # 4563
    Commercial-Residential-Construction-EIFS-Infrared Thermography
    life is the random lottery of events followed by numerous narrow escapes

  45. #45
    Join Date
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    Default Re: What would get you to attend?

    While trying to figure out where the hell NSHI (Home inspection info | NSHI, National Society of Home Inspectors) came from, I found this post.

    What happened in October at TREC.

    Anything????

    Have I been that busy and out of it?

    Erby Crofutt, Georgetown, KY - Read my Blog here: Erby the Central Kentucky Home Inspector B4 U Close Home Inspections www.b4uclose.com www.kentuckyradon.com
    Find on Facebook at: https://www.facebook.com/B4UCloseInspections

  46. #46
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    wade chapman Guest

    Default Re: What would get you to attend?

    Erby trec is run by the Texas Real estate assc. nothing has happen. and want unless it helps the realtors .the AG has not made up his mind yet possible because not enough monney has come his way yet.


  47. #47
    Mike Boyett's Avatar
    Mike Boyett Guest

    Default Re: What would get you to attend?

    Quote Originally Posted by Erby Crofutt View Post
    What happened in October at TREC?
    Erby, here are my notes (in blue) in the pdf file below from the Oct meeting. Since that Oct meeting the Inspector Committee's sub-committee on the SOP has met once and will meet again this coming Friday, 1/11 to complete a draft of the new SOP proposal that will go to full committee in Feb and then possibly to TREC for consideration in March or April. A draft copy of the new proposed SOP may be available later this month for review.

    The Attorney General's office did provide a response to TREC's inquiry regarding E&O insurance on 11/26. That opinion can be viewed at Tex. Att'y Gen. Op. No. GA-0581 (2007) -- Greg Abbott Administration . Bottom line, the AG said that regardless of what the insurance is called it needs to protect against negligence or incompetence in violation of chapter 1102, subchapter G (our state SOP). By most accounts only E&O will provide that coverage, not GL. That response was widely expected.

    TREC_IC_102607.pdf


  48. #48
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    Default Re: What would get you to attend?

    Mike,

    Once again, thanks for your notes on the meetings.


    Do you know if the meeting scheduled for Fri. 1/11 is to be open to the public and if so, where it will be held?

    Thanks,

    Eric


  49. #49
    Mike Boyett's Avatar
    Mike Boyett Guest

    Default Re: What would get you to attend?

    Eric,
    Yes, the sub-committee meeting is open to the public. It is, however, a working session where the sub-committee members work thru the details and language of proposed changes to the SOP and document those proposals. It can get tedius, to say the least . Input is welcomed from other attendees but the IC members will keep the session moving along as best as possible. Remember this is strictly a sub-committee meeting to address SOP revisions, i.e. there will not be any discussion of E&O or other hot topics.

    Feel free to attend....here's the agenda & location:
    AGENDA FOR TEXAS REAL ESTATE COMMISSION (TREC)
    INSPECTOR ADVISORY COMMITTEE
    STANDARDS OF PRACTICE SUBCOMMITTEE MEETING


    Conference Room 235, TREC Headquarters Office
    1101 Camino La Costa, Austin, Texas

    Friday, January 11, 2008 at 9:00 a.m.
    (Continuing Saturday, January 12, 2008 at 9:00 a.m. if necessary)

    1. Call to order
    2. Discussion and possible action to recommend amendments to 22 TAC 535.227-535.231
    concerning Standards of Practice for inspectors
    3. Discussion and possible action to recommend amendments to 22 TAC 535.223 concerning
    standard inspection report form
    4. Request for new business agenda items
    5. Adjourn



  50. #50
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    Default Re: What would get you to attend?

    Mike,

    Thanks for the reply. That is location is a mile from my house! I am definitely interested in attending if my schedule permits.



    Thanks,

    Eric


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