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  1. #1
    Richard Stanley's Avatar
    Richard Stanley Guest

    Default copy of insurance

    I got a call today from a local RE co. They said I was on their "approved inspector" list and that I needed to send them a copy of my E & O insurance to remain on their list. They said they were complying with info from TREC. I told them that per SB 914 and the info on the TREC website, I was not required to carry it until 9/08 and that even then it was none of their F****** business. I guess I'm not on their list anymore!!
    Does anyone furnish that info to RE companies??

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: copy of insurance

    Richard, I have had a few calls from RE offices (probably their office managers) asking if I have E&O and a few other details. Since I have never carried E&O that pretty much settled that. I guess I am not on their list either I have not gotten many calls from those particular offices, but then I don't get many RE calls except from a select few agents that really want to know the real story (not be fair to the house).
    Most calls of this type are from the big agencies that have dedicated managers that are following their agency training. They want to have some deep pockets to be on the list of people to sue when something goes wrong. Some of those same big agencies also had their hand out for a fee to be on their list before that was clarified as illegal a while back.
    I figure I will let everything shake out before I get coverage to comply with the new law when I renew next year.

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Dallas, Texas

  3. #3
    Richard Stanley's Avatar
    Richard Stanley Guest

    Default Re: copy of insurance

    Ditto - -never have paid to be on a list. They just make up their own, I guess. Sounds discriminatory to me - I bet there is a lawsuit there somewhere!
    Just got my second one a few minutes ago.
    Sounds, from them like, TREC issued something....?
    I'm going to make some calls.


  4. #4
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    Default Re: copy of insurance

    There's a large C-21 firm here in the Dallas area that for a long time now has not placed any HI on their list who hasn't had E&O.

    A friend of mine in the biz took out E&O just to get on that list and has done quite well being that not many others were carrying E&O.

    I have never paid to be on a list and not going to. I'll carry the E&O when the time comes that I have to but for now I'm not.

    JMHO


  5. #5
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    Default Re: copy of insurance

    I saw many firms, builders, etc requesting a copy of the inspectors in$urance (E&O and GL) when both Mississippi licensed and when Tennessee licensed last year. Those that did not have a cert on file were blackballed and the large firms told their agents not to use anyone with out the in$urance coverage. Keller Williams, Crye-Leike, C-21, ERA, CB and EXIT realty firms were the big groups doing it.

    Was not a big deal, I just faxed a copy of my coverage in to them. I did sanitize some parts of the certificate, and noting was ever said. Fighting it and getting mad, was just not healthy or worth my time.

    Last edited by Scott Patterson; 08-29-2007 at 02:16 PM.
    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  6. #6
    Richard Rushing's Avatar
    Richard Rushing Guest

    Default Re: copy of insurance

    "Blackballed!" That can't be good...


  7. #7
    Richard Stanley's Avatar
    Richard Stanley Guest

    Default Re: copy of insurance

    I think I will make my own list. If they take me off from theirs, I'll add them to mine. I'll make sure I look at everything on their listings even more closely than I may normally do.


  8. #8
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    Default Re: copy of insurance

    Leave it to Richard R.!
    Jim

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Dallas, Texas

  9. #9
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    Smile Re: copy of insurance

    “I carry E&O insurance” and “Please sue my company” both have 18 letters.
    Personally I always had it, but never shared that info with any brokers, agents or clients.

    Jerry McCarthy
    Building Code/ Construction Consultant

  10. #10
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    Default Re: copy of insurance

    As a contractor, I carried insurance and any client that asked for a copy of my binder received one. I carry insurance and have no problem giving the information. The insurance company will send a copy of the binder to anyone that asks. This is a part of doing business. Personally, I want to know that my doctor, attorney, contractor and real estate agent are insured. I have no intent of suing them, but I do want to cover myself as well. Not providing the information is unprofessional.

    Department of Redundancy Department
    http://www.FullCircleInspect.com/

  11. #11
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    Default Re: copy of insurance

    Ah Gunner, apparently you have yet to run into a client who wants to use your E&O policy as their personal ATM machine?
    I did reveal and share the fact I had a half-mill limit E&O policy when dealing with my regulars, but when some moron called up and the first question was do you have E&O insurance my stock reply was, "what's that?"

    I deal with insurance carriers every month, their claims departments and the attorneys they hire, and I don't advise broadcasting "I'm insured, I'm insured" to those who may retain you to perform an inspection. As a long time GC and then a property inspector there's a world of difference between GL and E&O insurance policies. The up side of a property inspector being insured is a good nights sleep and in the "occurrence type one can retire from the trenches and not worry about purchasing a "tail policy" to protect one's ass-ets.

    PS: when a broker asked me for a copy of my policy I always said "sure, as soon as you send me a copy of yours." That so called "preferred list" is pure horse pocky!

    Jerry McCarthy
    Building Code/ Construction Consultant

  12. #12
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    Default Re: copy of insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry McCarthy View Post

    PS: when a broker asked me for a copy of my policy I always said "sure, as soon as you send me a copy of yours." That so called "preferred list" is pure horse pocky!
    True, but it is a reality. I have spoken to several local Inspectors today and all have had a barrage of calls from Brokers telling them that their Clients will now be signing a special waver indicating they have been given a list of Insured Inspectors.

    It should not be too hard to understand why I believe it is imperative that it is made illegal in Texas to have a referring party clause in any E&O policy. What an incentive for Realtors to recommend deal friendly Inspectors. Who should care if they screw up? If they do, the Agent is covered.

    So the jack legs at TREC and TAR (but, I am redundant) in cahoots with that half ass from Plano win in the short term. Though I was never on a preferred list, I will now be on a blacklist. I guess I'll have to buy it a year early, since Realtors are training the Client to only hire Inspectors who have it.

    The only reason some people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
    - Paul Fix

  13. #13
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    Default Re: copy of insurance

    Jerry Mc,

    I also do not broadcast the fact that I am insured. And, I have walked from inspections when the buyer asked "Can I sue you?". However, I refuse to obfuscate and will answer the question or provide the binder when requested.

    And, yes I have been sued. As has been said before, there are two types of home inspectors. Those that have been sued and those that are going to be sued. Providing a binder does not increase my liability.

    Oh, yeah. I do tend to agree with your assessment regarding "preferred inspectors". Particularly when they are asking for money to post the business name.

    Department of Redundancy Department
    http://www.FullCircleInspect.com/

  14. #14
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    Default Re: copy of insurance

    About once a year I get an email or call from a well meaning but totally unrealiastic buyer with about 30 questions. They seem to take the term 'hiring' a home inspector a bit too literally. I never have said it but I'm tempted to tell them the one thing they should make certain of is to not hire any HI that would take the time to fill out their 'form.'

    The first question is usually, 'How much E/O insurance do you have?'

    I've had people ask for copies of at least three recent inspection, clients names they can contact, realtors...... and on and on.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm more than willing to talk to anyone at length about what I do (and don't) and will share lots of information but there's a limit.


  15. #15
    Aaron Miller's Avatar
    Aaron Miller Guest

    Default Re: copy of insurance

    My favorite call is the one that begins with, "Do you have E&O insurance and can you provide me with a copy?"

    My initial response is unerringly, "Why, do you plan to sue me?"

    I then take the time to explain to them that my E&O insurance is not intended to protect them, but rather to supply me with legal defense, "free of charge", in the event that they should sue me. They, of course will need to pay for their own attorney. Most people have no idea. They're just reading stuff from a list some bright bulb supplied for them.

    I then spend a little time discussing all of the important attributes one might want to find in an inspector. You know, like experience, credentials, those sort of meaningless things.

    Should they persist in their pursuit of a copy of the policy, I simply tell them that these are sensitive in-house company documents, much like their own bank statements. We simply do not distribute such information to anyone but our accountant and attorney.

    You may also want to ask them if they have a copy of their real estate agent's E&O policy. They may even want a P&L statement from their broker, just to be on the safe side . . .

    In Texas, since the law now (supposedly) states that E&O is required, simply tell them that you could not possibly have a license without it. So then your license is your proof of insurance. After all, it's the law.

    Aaron


  16. #16
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    Default Re: copy of insurance

    Since E&O insurance is required to get a home inspector license in TN, it's a moot point for me.

    However, before licensing, I would be asked once in a while from a RE company IF I had insurance, and could I send them a copy. I had no problems with doing so.

    Most of the clients that asked, were also asking a bunch of other questions that they got from a book. I also took the time to explain how E&O worked. The few times I got uneasy about the questions, I told them they should find another inspector.


  17. #17
    Richard Stanley's Avatar
    Richard Stanley Guest

    Default Re: copy of insurance

    Then there's this: See #3 bold and underline are mine.

    The Texas Real Estate Commission (TREC or the Commission) amended its request
    for an opinion to the Office of the Attorney General (OAG) regarding the enforceability of
    provisions in Senate Bill 914, 80th Legislative Session. Effective September 1, 2007,
    sections 38 and 39 of Senate Bill 914 require an applicant for a license or renewal of a
    home inspector license to provide proof that the applicant carries liability insurance with
    a minimum level of $100,000 per occurrence of coverage to protect the public against a
    violation of Chapter 1102, Texas Occupations Code. Chapter 1102 is the licensing and
    regulatory law for home inspectors in Texas.
    The three questions that the Commission has asked the OAG are as follows:
    1. Whether sections 38 and 39 of Senate Bill 914 require a home inspector applicant
    for a license or renewal of a license to carry general liability insurance, or
    professional liability insurance, or both.
    2. If Senate Bill 914 requires both general liability insurance and professional liability
    insurance, how should the commission interpret the $100,000 per occurrence
    requirement; would the bill require a minimum of $100,000 per occurrence for
    each type, or $100,000 combined coverage for both?
    3. Are sections 38 and 39 of Senate Bill 914 unenforceable because they are contrary
    to public policy regarding insurance coverage for fraud?
    The Texas Real Estate Inspector Committee (the Committee), recommended that the
    Commission ask the third follow-up question regarding the type and extent of insurance
    coverage required by Senate Bill 914 in light of existing provisions in Chapter 1102,
    Texas Occupations Code. Among other things, Chapter 1102 prohibits a licensed home
    inspector from engaging in fraud or misrepresentation while acting as a home inspector
    for a buyer or seller of real property in Texas. Since neither professional or general liability
    insurance will protect against fraud or misrepresentation, the Committee believes
    that the insurance requirement for coverage “to protect the public against a violation of
    Subchapter G” of Chapter 1102 is entirely unenforceable.
    At its meeting on June 4, 2007, the Commission issued an interim policy statement
    to define “liability insurance” in the amendments to Chapter 1102 to mean professional
    liability insurance, also known as errors and omissions insurance, until the Office of the
    Attorney General issues an opinion about the new requirements. At its August 6, 2007
    meeting, the Commission voted to amend the interim policy statement to clarify that
    Senate Bill 914 requires professional liability insurance only for insurable acts that also
    violate Chapter 1102. The Commission believes that the new amendments do not require
    insurance coverage for acts that are not insurable as against public policy.
    Additional information about the new requirements for professional liability insurance
    for a home inspector applicant for a license or renewal of a license, including a list
    of Frequently Asked Questions, can be found on the TREC website at
    TREC - Home Page.



  18. #18
    Aaron Miller's Avatar
    Aaron Miller Guest

    Default Re: copy of insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Stanley View Post
    Then there's this: See #3 bold and underline are mine.


    The Texas Real Estate Commission (TREC or the Commission) amended its request
    for an opinion to the Office of the Attorney General (OAG) regarding the enforceability of
    provisions in Senate Bill 914, 80th Legislative Session. Effective September 1, 2007,
    sections 38 and 39 of Senate Bill 914 require an applicant for a license or renewal of a
    home inspector license to provide proof that the applicant carries liability insurance with
    a minimum level of $100,000 per occurrence of coverage to protect the public against a
    violation of Chapter 1102, Texas Occupations Code. Chapter 1102 is the licensing and
    regulatory law for home inspectors in Texas.
    The three questions that the Commission has asked the OAG are as follows:
    1. Whether sections 38 and 39 of Senate Bill 914 require a home inspector applicant
    for a license or renewal of a license to carry general liability insurance, or
    professional liability insurance, or both.
    2. If Senate Bill 914 requires both general liability insurance and professional liability
    insurance, how should the commission interpret the $100,000 per occurrence
    requirement; would the bill require a minimum of $100,000 per occurrence for
    each type, or $100,000 combined coverage for both?
    3. Are sections 38 and 39 of Senate Bill 914 unenforceable because they are contrary
    to public policy regarding insurance coverage for fraud?
    The Texas Real Estate Inspector Committee (the Committee), recommended that the
    Commission ask the third follow-up question regarding the type and extent of insurance
    coverage required by Senate Bill 914 in light of existing provisions in Chapter 1102,
    Texas Occupations Code. Among other things, Chapter 1102 prohibits a licensed home
    inspector from engaging in fraud or misrepresentation while acting as a home inspector
    for a buyer or seller of real property in Texas. Since neither professional or general liability
    insurance will protect against fraud or misrepresentation, the Committee believes
    that the insurance requirement for coverage “to protect the public against a violation of
    Subchapter G” of Chapter 1102 is entirely unenforceable.
    At its meeting on June 4, 2007, the Commission issued an interim policy statement
    to define “liability insurance” in the amendments to Chapter 1102 to mean professional
    liability insurance, also known as errors and omissions insurance, until the Office of the
    Attorney General issues an opinion about the new requirements. At its August 6, 2007
    meeting, the Commission voted to amend the interim policy statement to clarify that
    Senate Bill 914 requires professional liability insurance only for insurable acts that also
    violate Chapter 1102. The Commission believes that the new amendments do not require
    insurance coverage for acts that are not insurable as against public policy.
    Additional information about the new requirements for professional liability insurance
    for a home inspector applicant for a license or renewal of a license, including a list
    of Frequently Asked Questions, can be found on the TREC website at
    TREC - Home Page.
    It may well be unenforceable, but try renewing your license without it.

    Aaron


  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Lake Barrington, IL
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    1,363

    Default Re: copy of insurance

    E&O not required here but I do carry it. I keep a certificate of coverage with me and have no problem showing it or advertising the fact that I have the insurance. I view the coverage as protection for me and my clients and find no reason for concern when a buyer asks about it. To me, he's just making sure that I can step up to the plate if I screw up.

    Eric Barker, ACI
    Lake Barrington, IL

  20. #20
    Michael Greenwalt's Avatar
    Michael Greenwalt Guest

    Default Re: copy of insurance

    As for the RA inquiring about my E&O I simply tell them; "I will gladly provide you with all insurance documents and when will I be recieving the documents regarding all the agents in your office? I am more than happy to reciprocate between our businesses.
    So far, none have been willing to provide me with the same information they are requesting of me. But, when they do, I will.


  21. #21
    imported_John Smith's Avatar
    imported_John Smith Guest

    Default Re: copy of insurance

    September should be the time we all begin raising our rates. Irregardless of what type of insurance etc is finally determined. I will personally raise mine tomorrow.
    As far as the insurance, I will begin shopping in the 1st quarter of 2008.
    This is a profession and you should treat your business like a business. Its unfortunate for everyone involved (except for insurance companies and lawyers)

    Lets face it, we are being strong armed into buying this "protection". Kind of like the mafia guys selling protection.......


  22. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    60

    Default Re: copy of insurance

    Thank goodness most of my clients are referrals. I don't have to cater to agents and could care less if I'm on their "preferred" lists.

    The small handful of agents that do refer me could also care less what their company tells them since those are few agents who are really looking out for their clients interests.

    Austin Structural Inspections
    email: larson@austinstructural.com
    web: www.austinstructural.com

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    South-West Michigan
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    469

    Angry Re: copy of insurance

    Do any of you know of doctors that advertise that they have malpractice insurance? Have any of you been party to, or served on a jury involving medical malpractice?

    Thank Heaven, I have not been sued to date. Some day, that may happen. When it does, I'll see how it goes. But one thing is certain: if legislators want to make the cost of doing business unreasonable, then I will look for other business to engage in.

    Being sued, in my opinion, is not about justice, or right and wrong. It is all about money. And if it looks like they can get it from you, they will certainly try.

    Randall Aldering GHI BAOM MSM
    Housesmithe Inspection
    www.housesmithe.com

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