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  1. #1
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Home Inspection Licencing Coming to Ontario

    Changing the Home Inspection Industry
    October 2/12
    By Mike Holmes

    Changing the home inspection industry

    This guy is something else. No trade certificates, no memberships, not much of anything and now he is advising he government on licensing?

    All he ever provides are his opinions. I have never seen any stats or tangible evidence other than his ego and his smugness.


  3. #3
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    Default Re: Home Inspection Licencing Coming to Ontario

    Raymond, don't you know what happens to you when you go up against a super-hero? Didn't your mom let you read comics? []

    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
    www.allsafehome.ca

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Home Inspection Licencing Coming to Ontario

    No I don't know what happens when one tries to go against a super hero.

    At least I attempt to challenge him which is more than I can say for a lot of apathetic inspectors who talk-a-lot but do nothing when their profession is besmirched by this smug arse.

    I didn't read comics when I was a kid, I was too busy playing outside, building tree forts, going to cubs, playing with my train set, my dog, playing in the creek or playing in the hayloft, hiking, camping ... never had time for comics...

    However my favourite read as a kid was Homer Price.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Home Inspection Licencing Coming to Ontario

    Big Mike could be your premier some day. If he decides to enter politics, he'll get elected hands down. You can be on the winning side or you can be in the opposition party, your choice.

    I got my tree fort built, went and picked up a pack of menthol smokes for the lady down the road that couldn't get out much, peddled back to the store with the 2 bits she gave me and bought a comic to read in the fort.

    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
    www.allsafehome.ca

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Home Inspection Licencing Coming to Ontario

    I am already on the winning side. I have contacted a number of MPP's and bureaucrats; like Mike, they now know who I am.

    Along with other seasoned inspectors who took time to write, we now have a place at the table for formulation of any licencing which may occur.

    All of this hinges on whether or not our minority government loses power due to the fact our Premier has a number of scandals plaguing his party to the tune of billions of dollars misspent.

    Remember the squeaky wheel, gets the grease.

    When I attend the meetings should I wear my coveralls and singlet undershirt?


  7. #7
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    Default Re: Home Inspection Licencing Coming to Ontario

    Big Mike will make it right. He's captain of Home Inspection now, so he will be wearing a polo shirt. You'll just look silly in overalls.
    Congrats on getting involved. They need help and will still get it wrong.

    Christy Clark, the temporary Premier of BC, since Campbell resigned over the HST bungle, has spent $400G in her 1st year on lunch and airfare. One of her fabulous luncheons cost us $3 G. No scandal here, just day-to-day business.

    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
    www.allsafehome.ca

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Home Inspection Licencing Coming to Ontario

    Raymond, I can't tell if you're upset at pending licensing for home inspectors or if you just don't like Mike Holmes.

    MinnesotaHomeInspectors.com
    Minnesota Home Inspectors LLC
    ASHI #242887 mnradontesting.com

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Home Inspection Licencing Coming to Ontario

    Ken

    I have always been in favour of licensing.

    However I don't like the government turning to Mike for advice as I along with others have always said he really doesn't understand the current standards, nor does he have a trade licence, let alone belong to any home inspection association.

    Upon further investigation it appears Mike has been used as a public address system to get the governments word out, but in the process he distorts the picture as usual.

    Since I have contacted a number of bureaucrats in government it appears that all parties will be solicited for their input.

    I hope we can formulate the right licensing for our provincial needs.

    There are several associations vying for their particular brand of licencing and some of them have very poor administrative qualities as well as very questionable entry requirements.

    Cheers,


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Home Inspection Licencing Coming to Ontario

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    Ken


    However I don't like the government turning to Mike for advice as I along with others have always said he really doesn't understand the current standards, nor does he have a trade licence, let alone belong to any home inspection association.
    Are you saying that he doesn't have and never had a General Contractor's License?

    MinnesotaHomeInspectors.com
    Minnesota Home Inspectors LLC
    ASHI #242887 mnradontesting.com

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Home Inspection Licencing Coming to Ontario

    To my knowledge and that of others, that is correct.


  12. #12
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    Default Re: Home Inspection Licencing Coming to Ontario

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    To my knowledge and that of others, that is correct.
    Looks like he and his company Restovate is licensed in Toronto and has been since 2002.

    City of Toronto: Business Licence Lookup

    MinnesotaHomeInspectors.com
    Minnesota Home Inspectors LLC
    ASHI #242887 mnradontesting.com

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Home Inspection Licencing Coming to Ontario

    Yes its apparently his renovation company. But that is a business licence only. Its not a trade certification ticket.

    http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&...xM-zQhS65KKevQ

    Last edited by Raymond Wand; 10-05-2012 at 05:17 AM.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Home Inspection Licencing Coming to Ontario


  15. #15
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    Default Re: Home Inspection Licencing Coming to Ontario

    Without a doubt, Mike is over-the-top with many of his repairs but I don’t mind him raising public awareness about quality home inspections. I also like his pricing structure and his up-sell approach to Thermal Imaging. It’s very frustrating to see home inspectors pick up a cheap $1500 IR camera then throw in free IR inspections on a $300 complete home inspection.

    Joe Klampfer RHI
    www.myinspection.ca
    Pacific Home Inspections

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Home Inspection Licencing Coming to Ontario

    Our premier is resigning as Premier of the province and as the liberal party leader as soon as the Liberal party can find a suitable candidate.

    He has also prorogued parliment given that he and his caucus were facing contempt charges over misspending for cancelling contracts for two power plants in order to win an election.

    We may be facing an election in Ontario in the spring. No doubt this announcement will I suspect thwart licencing of inspectors for the foreseeable future.

    I'd be lying if I said I wasn't ecstatic to see him go. Yippeee there is a God!


  17. #17
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    Default Re: Home Inspection Licencing Coming to Ontario

    Home Inspector certification:A query made by a senior inspector to the consumer affairs critic for the opposition (Conservatives).

    Dear Sirs / Madam:I was quite surprised to learn and read of the above noted article(Newsroom : Recent News-home-buyers.html) given a couple years ago this was not on the OntarioGovernment's radar.For over two decades, I have been operating as Home Inspector.

    I amcontacting you today as I wish to be informed as well as participate if atall possible in our current government's contemplation of licensing homeinspectors.I have been a member of various associations over the years including theProvincial Association of Certified Home Inspectors (PACHI), the OntarioAssociation of Home Inspectors (OAHI), the American Association of HomeInspectors (ASHI) and the National Association of Certified Home Inspectors(NACHI) and served on many of their boards / committees.I look forward to having the opportunity to assist the Ministry in theirexploration of licensing requirement(s) and look forward to hearing from youat your earliest convenience.


    Reply:

    January 25, 2013

    Mr *******,

    Thank you for highlighting the Government's lack of transparency or consultation on this matter. As Critic for Consumer Services, in December 2011 I submitted an Order Paper Question to Minister Margarett Best (#273) on the subject of the Government's intention to regulate the home inspection industry. In spring 2012, I received an answer thatstated the Government had no intention of regulating home inspectors because of what they assert to be a low number of complaints and stated that "this is not an area of significant public safety or consumer protection concern to suggest regulation"

    I see the Government's initiative as driven by electoral and media motives rather than genuine concern for consumers. I believe there is scope for a regulatory and insurance body that would offer Ontarians the certainty of a thorough inspection and protection against ensuing liabilities. This, however, must be done through thorough consultationand investigation rather than on a political whim. I look forward to meeting with you to discuss this matter further during one of my visits to Toronto.

    Regards,

    Jim McDonell
    Member of Provincial Parliament
    Stormont-Dundas-South Glengarry


  18. #18
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    Default Re: Home Inspection Licencing Coming to Ontario

    Kevin,

    I wouldn't worry too much about OAHI. From what I am being told they are 'broke' and can't even enforce the requirement of PR 158 - misuse of their so called 'coveted' RHI designation.

    Try calling the OAHI office, its always an answering machine. Even when you leave a message you don't get a reply. What does that tell ya?

    Their AGM is April 13th. If it turns out to be like past AGM's they were never able to get a quorum and there was a flurry of activity phoning members to send in their proxies in order to have a quorum.

    Oh, and as for Mike Holmes, word is out on him too.


  19. #19
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    Default Re: Home Inspection Licencing Coming to Ontario

    Recently I notified NHICC, and CAHPI and OAHI about inspectors in Ontario who are no longer members of OAHI/CAHPI misusing the designation RHI and the OAHI logo who are members of NHICC.

    I was disappointed that NHICC and CAHPI did not respond to my complaint, not even acknowledgement of the email.

    Regrettably it appears that NHICC has biases as to complaints.

    And its apparent CAHPI could care less about misuse of their coveted RHI at least in Ontario.

    This leads me to ask how these so called professional bodies protect the public and why as professional bodies they fail to pursue the offenders?

    For those who are abusing the RHI designation in Ontario PR 158 An Act Representing the Ontario Association of Home Inspectors states:

    12. (1) Every member of the Association whose name appears in the register may use the designations “Registered Home Inspector” and “R.H.I.“.

    (2) Any person in Ontario who, not being a registered member of the Association, takes or uses the designation “Registered Home Inspector” or “R.H.I.“, alone or in combination with any other word, name, title, initial or description, or implies, suggests or holds out that that person is a registered home inspector is guilty of an offence.

    (3) On conviction of an offence under sub-section (2), a person is liable to a fine of not more than $5,000.
    And then people wonder why we are on the road to licencing in Ontario.

    Last edited by Raymond Wand; 04-25-2013 at 06:37 AM.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Home Inspection Licencing Coming to Ontario

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Wood View Post
    We need a "Watch Dog" for all Ontario Home Inspectors Raymond.
    Are you up for the CHALLENGE?
    That Watch Dog can't be a wimpy Maltese that whines to the Government and gets what they want either.
    Pit Bull attitude for what is right for all is what is needed in Ontario.
    Pit Bulls are illiegal in Ontario, Kevin. What are you thinking?

    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
    www.allsafehome.ca

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Home Inspection Licencing Coming to Ontario

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    Kevin,

    I wouldn't worry too much about OAHI. From what I am being told they are 'broke' and can't even enforce the requirement of PR 158 - misuse of their so called 'coveted' RHI designation.

    Try calling the OAHI office, its always an answering machine. Even when you leave a message you don't get a reply. What does that tell ya?

    Their AGM is April 13th. If it turns out to be like past AGM's they were never able to get a quorum and there was a flurry of activity phoning members to send in their proxies in order to have a quorum.

    Oh, and as for Mike Holmes, word is out on him too.
    Thanks Raymond for pointing out your role as "watchdog" with your concern.

    The matter of the complaint lies strictly in the hands of OAHI. Afterall the claim is about a designation within the realm of OAHI, and CAHPI not the NHICC.

    Furthermore, as you may be aware changes on members websites are often time sensitive. That is, it may take time to have a web developer make the change. What is more important is what the person(s) involved have reported to be their status in that respective association.

    Regarding many issues that come to the NHICC "complaints" department, not all are a matter of dealing with the business of solving problems of other associations. As our lawyer has stated - "is this another shotgun approach to see who will jump when a shot is fired?" More correctly it is the issue between those from that association that will determine if the alleged breach is an infringement on the use of the designation RHI.

    It seems rather ironic and at odds to earlier comments that have been made. Those comments indicate that if a persons name is in the register of that association that they have a right to use that designation. So what exactly is your stand on that? Is that the official intrepretation or just another challenge?

    Your earlier post notes: "For those who are abusing the RHI designation in Ontario PR 158 An Act Representing the Ontario Association of Home Inspectors states:

    12. (1) Every member of the Association whose name appears in the register may use the designations “Registered Home Inspector” and “R.H.I.“.
    (2) Any person in Ontario who, not being a registered member of the Association, takes or uses the designation “Registered Home Inspector” or “R.H.I.“, alone or in combination with any other word, name, title, initial or description, or implies, suggests or holds out that that person is a registered home inspector is guilty of an offence.
    (3) On conviction of an offence under sub-section (2), a person is liable to a fine of not more than $5,000."


  22. #22
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    Default Re: Home Inspection Licencing Coming to Ontario

    Thanks Raymond for pointing out your role as "watchdog" with your concern.


    Thats right Claude as the CEO of NHICC are you telling me regardless of the matter being dealt with your people at NHICC cannot even must a reply indicating its not 'their' problem or simply thank you for your email? Very professional! And secondly I am not a watch dog I am a member of the public!


    The matter of the complaint lies strictly in the hands of OAHI. Afterall the claim is about a designation within the realm of OAHI, and CAHPI not the NHICC.
    Thats rather strange Claude given that OAHI has had no problems alerting other associations of issues outside jurisdictional dictates of OAHI of which the OAHI member may or may not be a member of the the other association.

    Furthermore, as you may be aware changes on members websites are often time sensitive. That is, it may take time to have a web developer make the change. What is more important is what the person(s) involved have reported to be their status in that respective association.
    Several months have transpired from when the two members in question changed their membership level or are no longer a member?

    Regarding many issues that come to the NHICC "complaints" department, not all are a matter of dealing with the business of solving problems of other associations. As our lawyer has stated - "is this another shotgun approach to see who will jump when a shot is fired?" More correctly it is the issue between those from that association that will determine if the alleged breach is an infringement on the use of the designation RHI.
    Baloney, as I stated above not even a simple reply. Other professional associations don't seem to have this problem only your group and your appointed friends. You are CEO and have been eagerly promoting professionalism and here you are as you do frequently chastising everyone who has a legitimate complaint.

    It seems rather ironic and at odds to earlier comments that have been made. Those comments indicate that if a persons name is in the register of that association that they have a right to use that designation. So what exactly is your stand on that? Is that the official intrepretation or just another challenge?
    No challenge its written and an act enacted by the provincial legislature. When a member is still a member of OAHI but retired the bylaws state unequivocally that that member is to put 'retired' under the logo. If you like I can post the section of the bylaw. Oh and btw that spokesperson for your association has a new website and has not abided by the rules he expects everyone else to follow. But then again he has always had a problem with being truthful.

    As for the other member he is no longer a member and is in breach of PR 158 and the bylaws and policy. And IS NOT in the registry as confirmed by OAHI.

    Your earlier post notes: "For those who are abusing the RHI designation in Ontario PR 158 An Act Representing the Ontario Association of Home Inspectors states:

    12. (1) Every member of the Association whose name appears in the register may use the designations “Registered Home Inspector” and “R.H.I.“.
    (2) Any person in Ontario who, not being a registered member of the Association, takes or uses the designation “Registered Home Inspector” or “R.H.I.“, alone or in combination with any other word, name, title, initial or description, or implies, suggests or holds out that that person is a registered home inspector is guilty of an offence.
    (3) On conviction of an offence under sub-section (2), a person is liable to a fine of not more than $5,000."
    Thats right and apparently he cannot read or does not care to. But then again its not surprising you brush off this concern given you are CEO with a history of denial. Remember CSA and ICE and Standards Council of Canada and the misquotes about other roles of NHICC?

    Quite frankly given the state of OAHI finances and its conflicts its not surprising they are not able to protect their designations. It makes a farce of protection for the consumer.

    And for the record your discipline chair also has biases and they are well established and on record as having discussed on a forum the matters of an individual and had no concern for his role, duties and privacy. Quite a collection of friends you have put in high places.

    But then again I expected no less from you. But the officials in the government and other bodies are well aware how you and yours operate. Perhaps that is why both OAHI and other bodies can't trust your group and no one can count on OAHI either, but I digress.

    And lets get something straight just because your association lawyer says something does not make it right either and shame on him for sloughing off if that was his advice.

    Keep up the good work, people are watching and reading.


    Last edited by Raymond Wand; 04-25-2013 at 04:37 PM.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Home Inspection Licencing Coming to Ontario

    For the record and accuracy.

    OAHI bylaws 19.1 (b) (iii)
    Retired Members of the Association are required to display or expressly set out that they are a “Retired Associate Member of the Association”, unless they have fulfilled the requirements of RHI Member, in which case they are required to set out that they are a “Retired RHI Member of the Association”, in connection with any such usage or reference.
    OAHI Policy
    16. ALLEGATIONS AGAINST NON-OAHI MEMBERS
    OAHI Staff and OAHI legal counsel shall process allegations against non-OAHImembers for infringement or misuse of the OAHI name, acronym, logo or misuseof other OAHI rights.
    The COE from NHICC

    http://www.nationalhomeinspector.org...CodeEthics.pdf

    3. Inspectors shall avoid activities that may harm the public, discredit themselves, or
    reduce public confidence in the profession.
    A. Advertising, marketing, and promotion of inspectors’ services or qualifications shall
    not be fraudulent, false, deceptive, or misleading.
    B. Inspectors shall report substantive and wilful violations of this Code to the NHICC.
    http://www.nationalhomeinspector.org/complaint.pdf
    Launching a Complaint
    The criterion for filing a complaint with the NHICC is structured in such a manner that facilitates fairness,respect and expediency, throughout the resolution process. Following the prescribed steps to asuccessful submission, investigation and resolution of a matter is required. Complaints may be filed byeither the general public or a NHI (National Home Inspector) registered with the NHICC practicing homeinspectors from all regions of Canada.
    Periodic Notifications
    The NHICC acknowledges complaints as they are received. Once received, periodic notices are sent as acourtesy throughout the resolution process in an effort to keep you up to date with the progress.
    Now that you and yours have been made aware of the issue I guess you had better get to work and fulfill and act accordingly as per the COE you wrote!

    http://www.nationalhomeinspector.org...idateHB12r.pdf
    PROFESSIONAL PRACTICESThe “ethics” of the NHICC and its “registrants” and contracting agents are paramount and must be upheld
    to maintain a positive public image and good name. Those who contravene the Code of Ethics, and/or
    do not adhere to the Standards of Practice, and/or advertise illegally will be disciplined. Complaints from
    the public or other “registrants” will be reviewed by the Professional Practices Committee.
    The committee’s mandate is focused on investigating complaints related to conduct and competence of
    Registrants, and other matters related to professional practices. This mandate does not include mediation
    of individual complaints, imposing settlements, or assisting in civil proceedings.
    Also on your own website you appear to be in violation of your own COE, as you state you are a RHI but yet you are not in the Registry which is in violation of Pr 158. Perhaps you need to update your website.

    Last edited by Raymond Wand; 04-25-2013 at 06:22 PM.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Home Inspection Licencing Coming to Ontario

    Raymond I'm not here to call out ALL of your short comings. But I do find it interesting how you provide every opportunity to attack others. Is that you MO under the guise of professionalism? Wouldn't it have been sensible to email them directly of what you noticed?

    So are you now the "general public" or expressing your views as another "home inspector" with a beef?
    (ordinary people in society, rather than people who are considered to be important or who belong to a particular group)

    How many time can you cry wolf before others simply ignore your line of badgering, letter writing and campaigns as seemingly to smear? Why make it a public spectacle?

    You made claims that others have responded. Than why haven't you posted those responses? Perhaps there's some common sense in what they have to offer. Interesting when I talk to others how they have dealt with the matter.

    But - thanks for reminding me to change my RHI (web reference) to retired. I am on record as retired RHI and did pay my membership dues to OAHI and still maintain membership in other organizations. Just a simple oversight. Again - you could have dropped me an email.

    So how long did it take you to remove your RHI from your website?

    So my other question is - why don't you move along and attack the others that have also made such transgressions, including the opportunity to clear up false claims made by yourself and that other claim to be largest association in Ontario. YES that is also on record.

    On another note - have you ever check out how much dead-wood still exist in that other claim to be largest inspection association? Oh and don't forget the difference betweem actual home inspectors and the want-to-be group and the vendors.

    No hard feelings...simply look inward at your own bias and honestly reflect on the BS that others claim that you seem to ignore and fail to highlight. Than I will respect your opinion as being fair and balanced to one and all.


  25. #25
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    Default Re: Home Inspection Licencing Coming to Ontario

    Quote Originally Posted by Claude Lawrenson View Post
    Raymond I'm not here to call out ALL of your short comings. But I do find it interesting how you provide every opportunity to attack others. Is that you MO under the guise of professionalism? Wouldn't it have been sensible to email them directly of what you noticed?
    Thats not my job to call people on their short comings vis-a-vis ethics. That is why there is a complaint process. But again I shouldn't have to point that out. Besides your suggestion is equivalent to the police telling the victim of crime to call the criminal! Get real.

    So are you now the "general public" or expressing your views as another "home inspector" with a beef?
    (ordinary people in society, rather than people who are considered to be important or who belong to a particular group)
    You either live up to whats advertised on NHICC or you don't. Its very clear you and your friends don't intend to do anything that upsets their position or status. Again thats your problem and your continual denial and excuses are unacceptable.

    How many time can you cry wolf before others simply ignore your line of badgering, letter writing and campaigns as seemingly to smear? Why make it a public spectacle?
    Crying Wolf? These are facts showing NHICC under your leadership has a history of spreading falsities, not correcting it and then condoning it all as a right to embellishment? Wow!
    You have a lot to learn.

    You made claims that others have responded. Than why haven't you posted those responses? Perhaps there's some common sense in what they have to offer. Interesting when I talk to others how they have dealt with the matter.
    I have got all the letters of response from the bodies NHICC inferred it belong to or operated to. Again government bodies or private organizations would not have responded to me with concern and then advise me and others that they would be contacting NHICC. Why don't you post those letters? Secondly if NHICC under your leadership felt there was no breach whatsoever then it is strange the offending info was removed from the NHICC website.

    But - thanks for reminding me to change my RHI (web reference) to retired. I am on record as retired RHI and did pay my membership dues to OAHI and still maintain membership in other organizations. Just a simple oversight. Again - you could have dropped me an email.
    Why would I send you an email? Isn't that why there is a complaint process?
    Also you are not registered on the OAHI website, and the website is the defacto registry as I was told by OAHI. I suggest you call OAHI to have your name listed on the find and inspector website. Hope you get a return phone call from OAHI, you might have to leave several voice mails, even then they may not reply. Sorta like NHICC.

    And by the way why does NHICC have all that stuff alluding to professionalism, code of conduct, courtesy replies, discipline if its not enforced and you as CEO are here making excuses and denials?


    So how long did it take you to remove your RHI from your website?
    Faster than you and your buddies and even then I made it clear I was former RHI.

    So my other question is - why don't you move along and attack the others that have also made such transgressions, including the opportunity to clear up false claims made by yourself and that other claim to be largest association in Ontario. YES that is also on record.
    Why should I move along? That suggests to me the NHICC under your direction does not like having its short comings pointed out. Free country, freedom of association, freedom of thought... Do you have problems following the constitution? Many of your statements as CEO contradict whats being promoted by on the NHICC website. This includes biases, disrespect, conflicts, and blatant discriminatory practices.

    Please point out for the record where I have made false claims and what the heck are you talking about me making statements that claim to be the largest association in Ontario. I would really like to see that statement as I have never ever made such a claim, and never would.

    On another note - have you ever check out how much dead-wood still exist in that other claim to be largest inspection association? Oh and don't forget the difference betweem actual home inspectors and the want-to-be group and the vendors.
    Well now you are off on another tangent, but for the record and you can check Inspection News for posts where I called into question irregularities in that association. Btw aren't you a vendor/owner of a inspection support supplier? That appears to be a conflict.

    No hard feelings...simply look inward at your own bias and honestly reflect on the BS that others claim that you seem to ignore and fail to highlight. Than I will respect your opinion as being fair and balanced to one and all.
    The record speaks for itself as do the misleading press releases. So much for oversight and consumer protection. I will call it a farce. And the public needs to be aware of such abuses.


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    Default Government of Ontario - June 25 - stake holders meeting

    Government of Ontario - June 25 - stake holders meeting info

    Strange they would include business entities (Carson Dunlop, Pillar to Post, Mike Holmes, Inspection Network) rather than just association or organizations.

    Attached Files Attached Files

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Home Inspection Licencing Coming to Ontario

    Just my view, but only associations should be at the table, not businesses which have a stake in selling courses.


  28. #28
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    Default Re: Home Inspection Licencing Coming to Ontario

    Can anyone really trust the current corrupt liberal regime to do the right thing?

    Its going to be interesting to hear what bull will be promoted by the various fractions who seemingly have an interest in licencing.


  29. #29
    robo marc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Home Inspection Licencing Coming to Ontario

    What one requires is comprehensive inspections services which include residential, commercial and environmental assessments to name a few. Also the company providing inspection should continuously meet the ever-changing needs of the market.Highly trained staff provides the most thorough evaluation of each property and most reports within 24 hours.The inspection company should focus on customers needs as a priority.

    professional home inspector


  30. #30
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    Default Re: Home Inspection Licencing Coming to Ontario

    Thanks Kevin.

    Looks like E&O insurance will be a hot potato.

    8-12 stakeholders? Seems low considering who was on the invite list (Special Interests).


  31. #31
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    Default Re: Home Inspection Licencing Coming to Ontario

    Am hearing that E&O insurance markets are tightening…premiums going up and/or no more coverage.

    Of course, with a claims made policy…if you’ve been paying in and have a claim after they cancel, you’re out of luck.

    Tell me how licensing protects the consumer with claims made insurance policies? The inspector stops inspecting, stops paying his premiums, whatever…two years later gets sued?


  32. #32
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    Default Re: Home Inspection Licencing Coming to Ontario

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    Am hearing that E&O insurance markets are tightening…premiums going up and/or no more coverage.

    Of course, with a claims made policy…if you’ve been paying in and have a claim after they cancel, you’re out of luck.

    Tell me how licensing protects the consumer with claims made insurance policies? The inspector stops inspecting, stops paying his premiums, whatever…two years later gets sued?
    BC inspectors are required by the licensing board to carry E+O and to be members of an association. How does this protect the consumer? It has eliminated the part time inspectors that cleaned gutters or performed renos and did inspections on the side. The added expense of E+O makes it a fulltime commitment.

    New inspectors are required to learn at least a minimal amount to qualify for membership in one of the associations, where before, they could just start inspecting with no training whatsoever. So licensing has raised the bar slightly. Most of us agree it is not enough yet.

    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
    www.allsafehome.ca

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Home Inspection Licencing Coming to Ontario

    Here is the reply from the MCS I rec'd this afternoon. Its unfortunate that the person who is representing ASHI via OAHI-CAHPI has not bothered to post any information here on this forum. Thus I took the initiative to get this info for those of us who have been let down.
    ASHI is nowhere to be found on the list of attendees!


    The email from MCS I rec'd this afternoon in answer to my concerns.
    http://raymondwand.ca/rwhis/EmailfromMCS.pdf


    MCS Presentation from June 25/13 to Licencing Stakeholders
    http://raymondwand.ca/rwhis/Home_ins...ns_meeting.pdf


    Post Meeting Notes from MCS
    http://raymondwand.ca/rwhis/Postmeetingsummary.pdf





  34. #34
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    Default Re: Home Inspection Licencing Coming to Ontario

    Hi Kevin,

    The fact is that if OAHI-CAHPI represents ASHI its only logical that the info should have been posted on the ASHI site which it wasn't until I provided it. I had to find out for myself and post it. How is that every association who was in attendance managed to get the info out? (That's a rhetorical question)

    Any association is to represent ALL members not who they choose to keep sequestered by not providing what is of paramount importance as licencing is going to affect my livelihood just as much as it is anyone else.

    Well so much for reliance on others, I am now on the stakeholders list whether OAHI-CAHPI likes it or not.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also Kevin, did you note the difference in the presentation MCS sent me today as compared to the one posted for Nachi members you posted a couple of weeks ago above?

    June25MCS.pdf


  35. #35
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    Default Re: Home Inspection Licencing Coming to Ontario

    Kevin

    There should be no tailoring of the presentation to suit the masses! That is not what was presented by MCS and if its been altered by whomever its misleading and not in anyway close to being accurate. Much of the important info was left out! Not acceptable. (not blaming you).
    I also noticed OACHI did the same thing. Two different documents.


    Next StepsThe ministry with the support of SEG Management Consultants Inc. will be establishing apanel of experts. Panel members must be willing to represent the broader public interest,to commit to being engaged, available during the months of August to November and attendbi-weekly meetings. Note that panel membership will be determined with a view to balancedrepresentation of all interests. Additional criteria are presented on page 10 of theslide deck enclosed. Names and brief descriptions of how the candidate meets the criteriacan be emailed to homeinspectors@ontario.ca <mailto:homeinspectors@ontario.ca> by July12, 2013. Thank you again for your support of the ministry’s Home Inspector Qualifications Project.
    Compare the two documents. Which one would you want to read; a sanitized version or the real McCoy?

    June25MCS.pdf
    vs.
    http://raymondwand.ca/rwhis/Home_ins...ns_meeting.pdf


  36. #36
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    Default Re: Home Inspection Licencing Coming to Ontario

    Kevin,

    ASHI turned out to be a disappointment. Guess they like their educational relationship with Carson Dunlop better then they do their independent Ontario members. But now the MCS is aware of the goings on.

    I asked any BOD to comment on the matter on the ASHI forum. Guess what - silence!

    OACHI doesn't seem to be prospering. The message board is a ghost town.


  37. #37
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    Default Re: Home Inspection Licencing Coming to Ontario

    Update

    The panel of experts has been formed but the MCS is not telling anyone who is on the panel. And those that are on the panel have been told that Chatham House Rules apply.
    So much for an open and transparent process.

    I sent a letter to MCS on Aug. 20/13 seeking info as to who is on the panel and to date no reply.

    It will be very disappointing if there are home inspection business entities on the panel for obvious reasons. And I do understand that Mike Holmes Inspection has a spot on the panel, but have not had that confirmed officially.


    This update has been added on the MCS website recently.
    Home Inspections

    Consultation: Home inspector qualifications
    Ontario is currently consulting on home inspector qualifications. An expert panel made up of members from the home inspector sector, consumers, businesses, and other interested groups has been established. This panel is expected to develop a report that will be released in late fall 2013. At that time, the report will be available for review and discussion with the public and the home inspection industry.


  38. #38
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    Default Re: Home Inspection Licencing Coming to Ontario

    Why is Blaine Swan on the panel? He is from Nova Scotia. I realize he represents CAHPI, but really someone from Ontario should have been chosen.

    Why is Trevor Welby Solomon on the panel? He is president of P2P. This is the same guy who usurped OAHI discipline decisions, and was holding OAHI board meetings in the corporate board room of P2P. This was a bad decision on the MCS part in my view.

    Ditto Graham Clarke, VP of Carson Dunlop.

    Well I guess the good news is Mike Holmes is not on the list. Thank God!


  39. #39
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    Default Re: Home Inspection Licencing Coming to Ontario

    Weeded out? Once on the panel, good luck.

    As to the others on the list, congratulations.


  40. #40
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    Default Re: Home Inspection Licencing Coming to Ontario

    At least you have a panel. Now the panel will need to make a decision or two. Expect this to drag on into 2015.

    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
    www.allsafehome.ca

  41. #41
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    Default Re: Home Inspection Licencing Coming to Ontario

    Hopefully we will have an election in the spring and turf the Liberals out.


  42. #42
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    Default Re: Home Inspection Licencing Coming to Ontario

    The home inspector qualifications expert panel met on Thursday September 19, 2013. This was the panel’s third meeting, and it was facilitated by SEG Management Consultants.
    The focus of the meeting was on potential home inspector governance and regulatory structures. The panel reviewed and discussed:

    • regulation/licensing of home inspectors
    • regulatory functions that are often performed in a regulatory context
    • approach to regulation/licensing in Ontario

    The panel had an in depth discussion to assess the need for regulation/licensing of home inspectors in Ontario. The panel will continue to discuss governance matters at future meetings.
    At a previous meeting, the panel requested the Canadian Standards Association (CSA) Group attend a meeting to present an overview of the association’s development of a new Standard; CSA A770 Home Inspection. This is a standard related to requirements for the physical inspection of residential homes. CSA is developing this standard using an accredited process that utilizes a committee of volunteer members that includes consumers, home inspectors, regulatory authorities and other general interests groups such as insurance and real estate. The project manager presented an overview of the project at the September 19th meeting, and the panel was very receptive and interested that Ontario engages and monitors the development of this standard. For information on the CSA Group development project, please contact
    Dwayne Torrey, Project Manager, CSA Group
    (416) 747 2746 or dwayne.torrey@csagroup.org

    The next meeting will be held on Thursday, October 3. This meeting will explore consumer protection issues for those that purchase home inspection services and associated regulatory issues.
    The panel’s findings and recommendations report will be made available for public and industry comment in late fall. The report and feedback will guide the government as it considers qualifications for home inspectors.

    Disponible en français

    David Brezer, Director
    Consumer Policy & Liaison Branch, Ministry of Consumer Services


  43. #43
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    Default Re: Home Inspection Licencing Coming to Ontario

    UPDATE

    The home inspector qualifications expert panel met on Thursday October 3, 2013. This was the panel’s fourth meeting, and it was facilitated by SEG Management Consultants.
    The focus of the meeting was on consumer protection. The panel reviewed and discussed:

    · Meeting consumer (pre-sale) information needs, to help purchasing decisions
    · A code of ethics for home inspectors
    · Financial protection from errors and omissions for home inspectors
    · Standardization of service disclosures, contracts and home inspection reports

    The panel hasnow reviewed and discussed four qualification pillars: technical, professional, consumer protection and governance.

    The next meeting will be held on Thursday, October 17. The focus of this meeting will be to review all the panel’s findings and consensus points to date, create an outline of the findings report and focus discussions on finalizing recommendations on qualifications for home inspectors.

    The panel’s findings and recommendations report will be made available for public and industry comment in late fall, on the Government of Ontario’s Regulatory Registry. The report and feedback will guide the government as it considers qualifications for home inspectors.


    David Brezer, Director
    Consumer Policy & Liaison Branch, Ministry of Consumer Services


  44. #44
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    Default Re: Home Inspection Licencing Coming to Ontario

    Oct. 24/13

    The home inspector qualifications expert panel met on Thursday, October 17, 2013. This was the panel’s fifth meeting, and it was facilitated by SEG Management Consultants.
    The panel reviewed consensus points and proposed recommendations previously agreed upon for the qualification pillars: technical and professional standards, consumer protection and governance structure. The panel confirmed their findings and provided SEG Management Consultants with direction to prepare an initial draft report for the panel’s next meeting on Thursday, October 31.

    The panel’s findings and recommendations report will be made available for public and industry comment in late fall and be posted on the Government of Ontario’s Regulatory Registry. The report and feedback will guide the government as it considers qualifications for home inspectors.

    The panel also agreed to move forward to develop and conduct a survey that would collect data on the sector. Currently, there is a gap of information on the home inspection industry. For example, there is no accurate number of home inspectors in Ontario. SEG Management Consultants will reach out to home inspectors and associations to survey and gather data. This information will be used to develop a profile of Ontario’s home inspector sector.


    David Brezer, Director
    Consumer Policy & Liaison Branch, Ministry of Consumer Services


  45. #45
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    Default Re: Home Inspection Licencing Coming to Ontario

    I'm curious to hear from others what the cost of a H.I. license is in your state or province. If possible - what do you get for the value of your license?

    Does it include other administrative or independent agency functions?

    Does it mandate that you must carry E&O coverage, and General Liability?

    Comments please. Thanks in advance.


  46. #46
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    Default Re: Home Inspection Licencing Coming to Ontario

    Quote Originally Posted by Claude Lawrenson View Post
    I'm curious to hear from others what the cost of a H.I. license is in your state or province. If possible - what do you get for the value of your license?

    Does it include other administrative or independent agency functions?

    Does it mandate that you must carry E&O coverage, and General Liability?

    Comments please. Thanks in advance.
    I hold a license is two States, both require E&O and GL insurance.
    In one state (Mississippi) Appraisers, Real Estate agents and Home Inspectors are all under the same commission. Each has its own independent board made up of licensed individuals from that profession.

    In Tennessee the state has a licensing board that lumps all licenses(from Funeral Directors, Hairstylist to Race Car Drivers) under one commission but each license has its own administrator and individual board.

    Cost is $325 every two years in MS and $300 every two years in TN

    As for what I get for holding a state license? I get to pay the state every two years! I also feel it gives what I do a bit more legitimacy in the eyes of the consumer.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  47. #47
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    Default Re: Home Inspection Licencing Coming to Ontario

    Kevin,

    It would appear MCS/SEG have put the cart before the horse.

    Currently, there is a gap of information on the home inspection industry. For example, there is no accurate number of home inspectors in Ontario. SEG Management Consultants will reach out to home inspectors and associations to survey and gather data. This information will be used to develop a profile of Ontario’s home inspector sector.
    This lack of info was pointed out to them right from the start amongst other info as to number of complaints about home inspectors which is very low considering the number of inspections.

    I have qualms about there terms 'governance' models, and 'standardized reports'.


  48. #48
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    Default Re: Home Inspection Licencing Coming to Ontario

    Also as reference -

    Requirements by State


  49. #49
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    Default Re: Home Inspection Licencing Coming to Ontario

    Quote Originally Posted by Claude Lawrenson View Post
    I'm curious to hear from others what the cost of a H.I. license is in your state or province. If possible - what do you get for the value of your license?

    Does it include other administrative or independent agency functions?

    Does it mandate that you must carry E&O coverage, and General Liability?

    Comments please. Thanks in advance.
    Claude

    From:
    Consultation Paper / Questionnaire
    PROPOSALS FOR A REGULATORY FRAMEWORK FOR HOME INSPECTORS
    Ministry of Public Safety and Solicitor General, 2008

    "Licence fees and other charges are set at a level that will allow the BPCPA to recover its
    costs of administering the program. The authority is a not-for-profit agency and all licensing
    revenue is used for administration. This includes such activities as consumer and industry
    relations, complaint handling, licensing, inspections and enforcement. Licence fees for
    industries currently regulated under the act range from $400 to $1600 per year."

    Here is what home inspectors in BC have had to pay for licensing in March of each year;
    2009 $100
    2010 $120
    2011 $150
    2012 $448
    2013 $485


  50. #50
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    Default Re: Home Inspection Licencing Coming to Ontario

    The final two home inspector qualifications expert panel meetings were held on Thursday, October 31, 2013 and Thursday, November 14, 2013. Both meetings were facilitated by SEG Management Consultants.

    The panel reviewed drafts of their findings and recommendations and confirmed direction for the final report. SEG Management Consultants will finalize the report and share with the panel over the next few weeks. Following the panel’s final approval, the report will be delivered to the Ministry of Consumer Services.

    Once the ministry receives the final report, it will be posted on the Government of Ontario’s Regulatory Registry for public review and comment. Dates of the posting will be announced soon.
    Disponible en français

    David Brezer, Director
    Consumer Policy & Liaison Branch, Ministry of Consumer Services


  51. #51
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    Default Re: Home Inspection Licencing Coming to Ontario

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Panting View Post
    Claude

    From:
    Consultation Paper / Questionnaire
    PROPOSALS FOR A REGULATORY FRAMEWORK FOR HOME INSPECTORS
    Ministry of Public Safety and Solicitor General, 2008

    "Licence fees and other charges are set at a level that will allow the BPCPA to recover its
    costs of administering the program. The authority is a not-for-profit agency and all licensing
    revenue is used for administration. This includes such activities as consumer and industry
    relations, complaint handling, licensing, inspections and enforcement. Licence fees for
    industries currently regulated under the act range from $400 to $1600 per year."

    Here is what home inspectors in BC have had to pay for licensing in March of each year;
    2009 $100
    2010 $120
    2011 $150
    2012 $448
    2013 $485
    What would you and others think about the cost of a license for Ontario inspectors in the range of $1000? Remember that's per year.

    Of course do not forget mandatory E&O and likely membership fees with a recognized (approved) association. What about mandatory "continuing education" costs?

    If my instincts and past conditions history apply - ie: the BC and Alberta licensing experience, likely an initial significant drop in the number of inspectors will happen. That can also potentially lead to higher licensing fees based on a cost recovery model.

    Your thoughts????
    Cheers.....


  52. #52
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    Default Re: Home Inspection Licencing Coming to Ontario

    If that is the case of $1K per year, plus insurance, plus other overheads, well... I think it sucks.


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