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  1. #1
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    Default ASTM Meeting Results

    I just got this message in my inbox from NAHI headquarters:

    "ASTM Update

    Hello NAHI Members,

    An organizational meeting of industry stakeholders occurred in West Conshohocken, Pennsylvania today to discuss whether to create an ASTM committee to begin the formation of a national standard of practice for home inspection. The result of this meeting is that a national standard will not move forward at this time.

    Thank you,
    NAHI Board of Directors "

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: ASTM Meeting Results

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Ostrowski View Post
    I just got this message in my inbox from NAHI headquarters:

    "ASTM Update

    Hello NAHI Members,

    An organizational meeting of industry stakeholders occurred in West Conshohocken, Pennsylvania today to discuss whether to create an ASTM committee to begin the formation of a national standard of practice for home inspection. The result of this meeting is that a national standard will not move forward at this time.

    Thank you,
    NAHI Board of Directors "
    I like the "will not move forward at this time.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  3. #3
    Joseph P. Hagarty's Avatar
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    Default Re: ASTM Meeting Results

    It was an interesting meeting with a large number of Inspectors from just about all areas of the USA.

    The need for a National Standard remains present.

    It is unfortunate that this ASTM proposal was voted down for all of the wrong reasons.


  4. #4
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    Default Re: ASTM Meeting Results

    If you think it will turn things ugly Joe, I can understand if you don't want to pass some of the reasons along but could you provide a synopsis of the meeting and maybe some reasons why it did not pass vote?


  5. #5
    Joseph P. Hagarty's Avatar
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    Default Re: ASTM Meeting Results

    The Majority of those voicing an opinion to be Not in Favor of an ASTM stated reasons to be self serving in nature.

    Predominant reason given was the belief that a Standard generated with input from a broad cross section of individuals working within the Industry may financially harm HI Associational interests.

    Last edited by Joseph P. Hagarty; 09-24-2007 at 05:25 PM. Reason: typos...

  6. #6
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    Default Re: ASTM Meeting Results

    The underlying agenda was a power struggle between NAHI and ASHI. And, of course, NACHI is against anything NAHI is for, so between ASHI and NACHI, the thing was DOA.

    "There is no exception to the rule that every rule has an exception." -James Thurber, writer and cartoonist (1894-1961)
    www.ArnoldHomeInspections.com

  7. #7
    Joseph P. Hagarty's Avatar
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    Default Re: ASTM Meeting Results

    Quote Originally Posted by John Arnold View Post
    The underlying agenda was a power struggle between NAHI and ASHI. And, of course, NACHI is against anything NAHI is for, so between ASHI and NACHI, the thing was DOA.
    John,

    I do not know if you were present as there were over 200 present at the morning session.

    You summed it up quite well.


  8. #8
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    Default Re: ASTM Meeting Results

    I was there until the vote. I bailed as soon as I handed in my ballot. Was there a riot or fisticuffs after the vote? Things seemed to be getting ugly.

    "There is no exception to the rule that every rule has an exception." -James Thurber, writer and cartoonist (1894-1961)
    www.ArnoldHomeInspections.com

  9. #9
    Joseph P. Hagarty's Avatar
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    Default Re: ASTM Meeting Results

    No riots or outbursts.

    I found it truly astonishing the extent of control that ASHI National and/or Chapters have with their Membership to vote the interests of the Organization over the interests of their Business and Clients / Consumers.

    Simply amazing.


  10. #10
    David Nice's Avatar
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    Default Re: ASTM Meeting Results

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    I like the "will not move forward at this time.
    They write like politicians trying to spin a resounding defeat into a pesky little bump in the road.

    The vote was 103 to 49 against forming a committee to write a national SOP.

    Last edited by David Nice; 09-24-2007 at 07:48 PM.

  11. #11
    David Nice's Avatar
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    Default Re: ASTM Meeting Results

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph P. Hagarty View Post
    The Majority of those voicing an opinion to be Not in Favor of an ASTM stated reasons to be self serving in nature.

    Predominant reason given was the belief that a Standard generated with input from a broad cross section of individuals working within the Industry may financially harm HI Associational interests.
    You should have been in Wisconsin to hear the battle that went on about having just one home inspector on the real estate forms advisory committee (which is stacked with State Realtor Association Lawyers).

    Realtors tried to create HI laws here that gave them way to much control over the inspection process. Many Realtors are great to work with but the Associations are as self serving as any. So we should invite them in on a process to create a national SOP? NOT!


  12. #12
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    Default Re: ASTM Meeting Results

    Without this errupting into a NAHI/ASHI/NACHI war.... can anyone explain how this proposed 'national standard' would work?

    Each association has their SOP's and each state does too... Or, at least those with certification do. A lot of times those are closely related but not exactly the same.

    It seems that without any enforcement or 'law' this would just be another acronym on somebody's shirt and letterhead.

    How would the consumer (or even brokers) buy into this or even be aware of it?

    Would this standard supercede the state SOP's?

    Sorry if this is asking for questions already beat to death... is there a link to another thread that explains it all?

    Thanks!


  13. #13
    Joseph P. Hagarty's Avatar
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    Default Re: ASTM Meeting Results

    The development of an ASTM Standard is intended to bring uniformity where there currently is not.

    One recent Standard (used as an example today) which many Inspectors may be aware of is a Phase 1 Environmental Assessment.

    ASTM International Technical Committee E50

    This Standard was developed thru a similar process that was described today.


  14. #14
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    Default Re: ASTM Meeting Results

    I would think "IF" it happened, it would work something like the merger of the regional codes into the IRC a few years back. But then that is just a guess. I am doubting that it will be a cooperative effort due to the animosity between the various organizations. I figure if it happens, it will happen without the groups that oppose it and everyone will be forced into accepting it by legislation, insurance company mandate or whatever. Some will jump on board early while others refuse to the bitter end.
    While I don't look forward to change, and unbiased national standard might be preferable to what our realtor controlled state agency forces on us.

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Dallas, Texas

  15. #15
    Aaron Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: ASTM Meeting Results

    If ASTM wants to write a standard for HIs, why reinvent the wheel? What is wrong with current versions of IRC and NEC. Seems we already have a national standard and just refuse to recognize that fact.

    Before some of you begin to howl and moan about how current IRC/NEC should not be used to assess existing homes, let's look at it more closely. Model codes are minimum standards designed to protect life, limb, and property. Why is that so different from what HIs are doing now?

    Aaron


  16. #16
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    Default Re: ASTM Meeting Results

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Miller View Post
    If ASTM wants to write a standard for HIs, why reinvent the wheel? What is wrong with current versions of IRC and NEC. Seems we already have a national standard and just refuse to recognize that fact.

    Before some of you begin to howl and moan about how current IRC/NEC should not be used to assess existing homes, let's look at it more closely. Model codes are minimum standards designed to protect life, limb, and property. Why is that so different from what HIs are doing now?

    Aaron
    The problem with that theory is that the codes are owned by ASTM. ASTM makes their money selling publications and by testing. If you really want to see what a home inspector standard would look like take a look at the convoluted and meager standard for commercial inspections.

    This issue will rear it's ugly head down the road, it might be two, five or ten years but it will come up again. When you look at the various HI associations standards, they are not all that different. They are all have been derived from the ASHI standards. The current standards are free for all to use, with ASTM that would not be the case.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  17. #17
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    Default Re: ASTM Meeting Results

    If you wanted to make the standard code based, it would require an overhaul of the way the state of Pennsylvania does things. Codes are not uniform from one municipality to the next around here and as it stands now, you can't possibly know 100% what is and isn't code. Each area seems to choose what they do and don't recognize and follow. It's bizarre.


  18. #18
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    Default Re: ASTM Meeting Results

    Where are our leaders? I guess they went the same way as our government extinct to be firmly replaced by greed and avarice? We are being demonstrated the old saw that power corrupts, and absolute power absolutely corrupts.

    Jerry McCarthy
    Building Code/ Construction Consultant

  19. #19
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    Default Re: ASTM Meeting Results

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry McCarthy View Post
    power corrupts, and absolute power absolutely corrupts.
    The older I gets, the more I find myself saying that.

    "There is no exception to the rule that every rule has an exception." -James Thurber, writer and cartoonist (1894-1961)
    www.ArnoldHomeInspections.com

  20. #20
    Michael Greenwalt's Avatar
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    Default Re: ASTM Meeting Results

    I may be somewhat confused but I can't help but notice one small thing.

    * when NAR or realtors want to make a standard through legislation for home inspectors, certain national, state, regional, and local organizations jump through hoops to make sure it not only happens, but they are at the reins leading the horse. When Home inspectors try to improve our association these organizations act like school children.

    Just an observation, <donning flak vest>


  21. #21
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    Default Re: ASTM Meeting Results

    Michael - At the risk of sounding trite you're quoting the Golden Rule: "He who has the gold makes the rule(s)."

    Jerry McCarthy
    Building Code/ Construction Consultant

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