Thread: NAHI wins again in US District Court

Opinion and Order from the United States District Court, Eastern District of Michigan, Southern Division in the matter of NAHI (Plaintiff) vs. InterNACHI (Defendant):
First reported on TIJ by Chad Fabry.

Similar Threads:

• NAHI FIGHTS BACK
• NAHI & ASHI - Our lips have met, our hips not yet
• NAHI files another motion against NACHI
• Change to NAHI Code of Ethics

The Cliff Note's Version:

"Upon discovering possible violations of the settlement agreement, Plaintiffs counsel sent a message to Defendant's counsel and local counsel. Plaintiffs counsel informed Gromicko that Plaintiff would be filing the instant motion if Gromicko did not comply with the terms of the settlement agreement. In an email dated July 23,2007, Gromicko responded:

P.S. [Plaintiffs counsel], I am an honest man and am doing what I agreed to. We've already done much. We'll have the announcement for of the master InterNACHI plan including an announcement to members that they may want to prepare for the change to INTERnachi up on our site by this coming weekend. I'd say that is lightning speed. As for the rest of your other requests which we never agreed to . . . . go f*** yourself. I know. I'm offensive and immature."

Originally Posted by Scott Patterson

Opinion and Order from the United States District Court, Eastern District of Michigan, Southern Division in the matter of NAHI (Plaintiff) vs. InterNACHI (Defendant):
First reported on TIJ by Chad Fabry.

I'll have to quit laughing so hard before I can enter the discussion that will surely follow this. What a laugh, and to think, I was "kicked out" of that silly association for coming to the same conclusion as Judge Borman, I guess like myself and many others the Judge doesn't share Nick and his followers sense of humor

Thanks for the post Scott, like they say it's "priceless", except of course to Nick.

Scott,

Thanks very much for posting the 'facts'. Here's hoping you don't get slammed like Chad when he posted similar at TIJ.

As I noted ... it is an education for all of us ... then we can formulate our positions from that.

Kind of like any 'good debate'.

Most appreciated Scott.

More significant than a NAHI "victory" or any association vs association bashing that may erupt as a result of this thread, if I was a NACHI inspector I would be extremely concerned that a US District Court has decreed:

III. CONCLUSION

For the foregoing reasons, the Court hereby:

(4) ORDERS that if Defendant does not replace the instances of "NACHI" with "INTERNACHI" by November 20,2007, the Court ORDERS that Defendant shut down and remove fiom the internet the NACHI.org and INTERNACHI.org websites until such time that Defendant can comply with its obligation under the settlement agreement to replace the instances of "NACHI" with "INTERNACHI."

SO ORDERED.

because the court record says:

In response to Plaintiffs contention that Defendant is not moving quickly enough in transitioning to its new name, Defendant points out that: (1) its webmaster opined that technical and logistical issues in changing the name website-wide would take "up to two years" to complete (Def. Br. Ex. B, Gromicko Aff. 38; Def. Br. Ex. D, Cohen Decl. 9)

Is NACHI going to be able to meet the court imposed deadline that is four days from today? If not, what happens then?

Originally Posted by Brandon Chew

More significant than a NAHI "victory" or any association vs association bashing that may erupt as a result of this thread, if I was a NACHI inspector I would be extremely concerned that a US District Court has decreed:

because the court record says:

Is NACHI going to be able to meet the court imposed deadline that is four days from today? If not, what happens then?

Another concern will be the expense and trouble of changing the Logo's and wording on all their marketing materials, web sites, etc. Nick, and others, told members back in July that individuals would not have to change their logos under the original settlement, and even if they were required to do so, there was no time limit, which according to Nick, ment never. So much for his spin.

Originally Posted by Brandon Chew

More significant than a NAHI "victory" or any association vs association bashing that may erupt as a result of this thread, if I was a NACHI inspector I would be extremely concerned that a US District Court has decreed:


Is NACHI going to be able to meet the court imposed deadline that is four days from today? If not, what happens then?

Sounds like ole nick is going to have to call on his vender angles again, this is if there are any left to bail him out on this one..

I'm not sure why so many feel the need to "association bash" other associations, which (to me) is the evident intent by the title of this thread.

As everyone knows, I am not in NACHI's corner, nor in NAHI's, nor in ASHI's, they have all discredited themselves by bashing each other - at that is my opinion.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

I'm not sure why so many feel the need to "association bash" other associations, which (to me) is the evident intent by the title of this thread.

As everyone knows, I am not in NACHI's corner, nor in NAHI's, nor in ASHI's, they have all discredited themselves by bashing each other - at that is my opinion.

I don't take that same stance...
If the truth is out there, by all means, let's have it. No conjecture. No propoganda. Just the facts. Nothing more. Nothing less.

What's so difficult about getting the facts straight. I for one, am appreciative to this and any other forum or media type that will provide me with facts that can and do make a difference in my professional and personal life.

Thanks, Scott and Chad.

rr

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

I'm not sure why so many feel the need to "association bash" other associations, which (to me) is the evident intent by the title of this thread.

As everyone knows, I am not in NACHI's corner, nor in NAHI's, nor in ASHI's, they have all discredited themselves by bashing each other - at that is my opinion.

I agree with Jerry P. What benefit does posting this information here and making comments about it have since NAHI and ASHI have their own private chat areas? In my opinion, the people that are NACHI members are going to stay a member and the people that do not like NACHI are going to stay not liking NACHI. For the people that have membership to both ASHI and NACHI, I would think that they find benefits spending money to be in both organizations.

Even though I have had a taste of ASHI and NACHI, I do not belong to either.

Originally Posted by Richard Rushing

If the truth is out there, by all means, let's have it. No conjecture. No propoganda. Just the facts. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Richard,

Did you read what I said?

"is the evident intent by the title of this thread."

I was not commenting on the contents of Scott's post, just what he chose to title it. To me, that was an unnecessary dig at an association he (and most of us, including myself) feel is a joke.

To avoid potentially pulling in participants who only rant on about association bashing, why head line the post with a title to encourage their participation?

The case was NAHI vs NACHI.

NAHI won in court.

What's divisive about that?

There's no association bashing in the title of this thread or in the court order.

It's all statement of fact.

If anyone sees the rendering of a court verdict as divisive or bashing .... well, I just don't get why.

I think it's damn important for independent thinkers and lemmings alike to have a clear understanding of what's going on.

I personally believe that all associations don't have altruistic goals, but also that they have impact on the publics perception of home inspectors. To that end it is important to know what they're up to.

This Court decision was about Association Bashing at it's worst, and the "bashing" was done mostly by Nick Gromicko and his followers, not most Nachi members. Why shouldn't this case be discussed, it concerns the HI Industry as a whole, not just the two Associations involved.

Nick's defenders and spinners have, on this message board, denied every charge this Judge found to be true. One member, a local chapter President, stated he called Nick personally and was told that the original agreement did not concern local chapters or individual members, even though the agreement said exactly the opposite.

The conduct of Gromicko and his group celebrating their self declared victory should have been an embarrassment to all Nachi members and all Home Inspectors everywhere. Nick's celebration was carried out on a public Message board using personal attacks, sexual slurs and innuendos, and outright lies, this has been decided in court, as pointed out in this decision, why is it "Bashing" to point out such conduct?

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Richard,

Did you read what I said?

"is the evident intent by the title of this thread."

I was not commenting on the contents of Scott's post, just what he chose to title it. To me, that was an unnecessary dig at an association he (and most of us, including myself) feel is a joke.

To avoid potentially pulling in participants who only rant on about association bashing, why head line the post with a title to encourage their participation?

What would be an appropriate title?

NAHI lawsuit against NACHI enforced by US District Court?
NAHI lawsuit against NACHI upheld by higher court?

I thought that the title covered it well

Originally Posted by Scott Patterson

What would be an appropriate title?

NAHI lawsuit against NACHI enforced by US District Court?
NAHI lawsuit against NACHI upheld by higher court?

I thought that the title covered it well

Scott,
I agree... there is nothing subversive or subliminial in the content of, "NAHI wins again in US District Court"

Or was it the word, "again" that has some folks splitting public hairs?

I guess an appropriate response to this post would be;
"Depends on what your definition of *IS*... is.

To repost Jerry's statement:
"I'm not sure why so many feel the need to "association bash" other associations, which (to me) is the evident intent by the title of this thread."

Could it have been that you (Jerry) pre-judged the author of this thread, thinking that you knew why (and apparently you didn't) he did so with alterier motives.

I can't speak for Scott. But, I believe you have to take things at face value instead of making something where it wasn't otherwise there.


rr

I fail to see how the post is org bashing , what ever the title..
To me it clearly addresses an indivudal that for years has been bashing anybody that does not pay him $ to be certified, and or anybody that does not think the way he does.
His actions that he got nailed for in the lawsuit were the same he used against the owner of this org. that included name calling, adding one letter to this web site address to get inspectors to his site, them bragging about it.

I will admit I find it disturbing knowing that 10,000 [ per his count, ]fellow inspectors, our competition, supports, defends and promotes his, destroy the competion marketing methods.

Originally Posted by Richard Rushing

Could it have been that you (Jerry)

Did you read the:

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

... which (to me) ...

In my post?

Yup... read it.

I'm not one for organization bashing. I didn't like it when nick did it while I was a member of internachi, and often called him on the carpet for his references to NAHI and ASHI.

I am not a fan of it from any other associations, either. I understand many of the criticisms of the owner of internachi, but that doesn't make the whole org and all its members bad people or bad inspectors (or even any less professional). They demsonstrate their own competence and professionalism individually, by their own conduct.

This decision does reinforce, for me, my recent decision not to rejoin internachi, and instead to join ASHI (we must belong oto a national org here in PA.)

I don't know maybe:

Nachi loses 2nd lawsuit
or
Nahi wins 2nd lawsuit
or
two associations sue each other, one loses
or
Home inspectors lose out as one association has to sue another
or
Industry full of lawsuits, inspectors lose
or
Associations full of crap, lawsuits fly
or
PC correct to appease everyone.


I thought the first one did just fine, but ahem,,,I read it out of curiosity not disdain.

Make sure you join the right association. - The National Association of Certified Home Inspectors

Originally Posted by Scott Patterson

What would be an appropriate title?

NAHI lawsuit against NACHI enforced by US District Court?
NAHI lawsuit against NACHI upheld by higher court?

I thought that the title covered it well

Neither. NAHI has won NO case and NO lawsuit was upheld.

What is true is this:
NAHI sued NACHI
NACHI made a settlement offer
NAHI accepted
NAHI didn't like the way NACHI was complying before they had even signed an agreement and filed a motion with the court.

Item 1. of the motion was a requirement of the court regardless of the other parts of the motion. That is a victory for NAHI?

Item 2 The court could not grant enforcement until the agreement was reduced to writing and signed by the appropriate parties, making this an essential requirment for the courts involverment in seeing the agreement was kept by all parties. Not just NACHI. Nearly all aspects of the agreement fell far short of what NAHI was trying to accomplish by filing the lawsuit to begin with.
The victory here is that both parties win by not having to pour thousands of dollars into a court case!

Item 3. Pertains excusively to the costs incurred in preparation of the motion.

Even before the order was issued the judge asked that NACHI alter the logo more. This was done promptly.

There are some issues with repspect to the website that the judge was just plain wrong on but it makes no difference. A lot of judges have little understanding of the nuances of the Internet and the technical nature of some of its uses.

There are some facts not in evidence that may be revealed someday, that might make those who think this is some sort of real victory for NAHI look like idiots.

NACHI did not even show up for the hearing on the motion. That shows how concerned NACHI was over this.
If this was going to be such a big victory for NAHI, why would NACHI not fight it?

It is sad that any organization can take pride in filing such a bogus lawsuit to begin with. I have yet to meet a sole that actually had NAHI confused with NACHI. All the while NAHI has been blowing $ on lawyers while their memberships are declining like a lead baloon. Do you think this "victory" will pull them out of the hole they dug for themselves?

Since nobody really ever confused NACHI for NAHI, I doubt it!

Originally Posted by Joseph P. Hagarty

Make sure you join the right association. - The National Association of Certified Home Inspectors

When I click on that url, my foxfire tab says "Make sure you join the right ass..."

Originally Posted by David Nice

Neither. NAHI has won NO case and NO lawsuit was upheld.

What is true is this:
NAHI sued NACHI
NACHI made a settlement offer
NAHI accepted
NAHI didn't like the way NACHI was complying before they had even signed an agreement and filed a motion with the court.

Item 1. of the motion was a requirement of the court regardless of the other parts of the motion. That is a victory for NAHI?

Item 2 The court could not grant enforcement until the agreement was reduced to writing and signed by the appropriate parties, making this an essential requirment for the courts involverment in seeing the agreement was kept by all parties. Not just NACHI. Nearly all aspects of the agreement fell far short of what NAHI was trying to accomplish by filing the lawsuit to begin with.
The victory here is that both parties win by not having to pour thousands of dollars into a court case!

Item 3. Pertains excusively to the costs incurred in preparation of the motion.

Even before the order was issued the judge asked that NACHI alter the logo more. This was done promptly.

There are some issues with repspect to the website that the judge was just plain wrong on but it makes no difference. A lot of judges have little understanding of the nuances of the Internet and the technical nature of some of its uses.

There are some facts not in evidence that may be revealed someday, that might make those who think this is some sort of real victory for NAHI look like idiots.

NACHI did not even show up for the hearing on the motion. That shows how concerned NACHI was over this.
If this was going to be such a big victory for NAHI, why would NACHI not fight it?

It is sad that any organization can take pride in filing such a bogus lawsuit to begin with. I have yet to meet a sole that actually had NAHI confused with NACHI. All the while NAHI has been blowing $ on lawyers while their memberships are declining like a lead baloon. Do you think this "victory" will pull them out of the hole they dug for themselves?

Since nobody really ever confused NACHI for NAHI, I doubt it!

It's always good to hear both sides of the story.
After reading this side.. I guess my oponion is ...dangit, I hate it when the legal system agrees to take on bogus cases, and then make the wrong party a victom, by rendering an oponion based on their liminted understanding, opposed to doing research first on topics beyond their knowelge.

There are some issues with repspect to the website that the judge was just plain wrong on but it makes no difference. A lot of judges have little understanding of the nuances of the Internet and the technical nature of some of its uses.

Sorry, but this does not fly. I'm afraid that a US District Court Judge would be versed on the topic before issuing a ruling. They have an entire support staff that advises them on issues like this.

There are some facts not in evidence that may be revealed someday, that might make those who think this is some sort of real victory for NAHI look like idiots.

And just how do you know this? Let me guess, Nick said so! David you are just a member with no ownership in the organization. You have no vote in what the organizations does or says. The only voice in your organization is Nick and he is like the Wizard of Oz.

This is Nicks Spin on the lawsuit:

Make sure you join the right association.
The little Minneapolis associatin's recent assertion that it won some sort of victory against the defendant, the National Association of Certified Home Inspectors, Inc is not exactly correct. The defendant named in this very recent motion did not appear in court to fight it at all, giving the Judge no choice. The defendant didn’t even respond to it. Why? Because the defendant agreed with the motion and did not have much of problem with it.

In a previously settled-out-of-court complaint, the little Minneapolis association, which is run by a for-profit company oddly owned by the association’s own Executive Director, claimed that there existed confusion between the 2 organizations and claimed that some inspectors who accidentally joined their Minneapolis association were later displeased to discover that they could not access any Membership Benefits - The National Association of Certified Home Inspectors. The inspector victims of this confusion were even more displeased to discover that they had to fulfill Become Certified! Join InterNACHI today. - The National Association of Certified Home Inspectors and pay again to join the right association if they wanted to access and enjoy the member benefits they sought. The embarrassment this was causing the little Minneapolis association is quite understandable.

Both parties, each desiring to reduce this alleged confusion, entered into an mutual agreement (not a forced court order) whereby the National Association Certified Home Inspectors, Inc., though not agreeing to change its corporate name or any website domain name (URL) it used, would however agree to speed up its pre-existing plan begun in 2001, to go international. Part of our willingness was fueled by the resistance experienced in using the "N" word, "National" in other countries where the word means U.S.-only, nationalism, and/or NAZI-ism. And part was fueled by a pre-existing plan to upgrade our logo design to something more emblem or certification seal-like for member marketing purposes. The mutual agreement included an offer by the National Association of Certified Home Inspectors, Inc. to arrange to change on nachi.org, the logo and acronym, which was but one letter different than the little Minneapolis association’s acronym. This change was made by adding the letters “Inter” in front of its acronym so that it reads "InterNACHI." These brand-maintained changes have been made on all 215,000 webpages.

The National Association of Certified Home Inspectors, Inc. has never violated any agreement and is confident that the number of victims of confusion has been reduced by these efforts to put distance between the 2 organizations. We are unable to waive our entrance requirements, offer our membership benefits, or give free memberships to inspectors who accidentally joined the wrong association.

Originally Posted by David Nice

Neither. NAHI has won NO case and NO lawsuit was upheld.

What is true is this:
NAHI sued NACHI
NACHI made a settlement offer
NAHI accepted
NAHI didn't like the way NACHI was complying before they had even signed an agreement and filed a motion with the court.

Item 1. of the motion was a requirement of the court regardless of the other parts of the motion. That is a victory for NAHI?

Item 2 The court could not grant enforcement until the agreement was reduced to writing and signed by the appropriate parties, making this an essential requirment for the courts involverment in seeing the agreement was kept by all parties. Not just NACHI. Nearly all aspects of the agreement fell far short of what NAHI was trying to accomplish by filing the lawsuit to begin with.
The victory here is that both parties win by not having to pour thousands of dollars into a court case!

Item 3. Pertains excusively to the costs incurred in preparation of the motion.

Even before the order was issued the judge asked that NACHI alter the logo more. This was done promptly.

There are some issues with repspect to the website that the judge was just plain wrong on but it makes no difference. A lot of judges have little understanding of the nuances of the Internet and the technical nature of some of its uses.

There are some facts not in evidence that may be revealed someday, that might make those who think this is some sort of real victory for NAHI look like idiots.

NACHI did not even show up for the hearing on the motion. That shows how concerned NACHI was over this.
If this was going to be such a big victory for NAHI, why would NACHI not fight it?

It is sad that any organization can take pride in filing such a bogus lawsuit to begin with. I have yet to meet a sole that actually had NAHI confused with NACHI. All the while NAHI has been blowing $ on lawyers while their memberships are declining like a lead baloon. Do you think this "victory" will pull them out of the hole they dug for themselves?

Since nobody really ever confused NACHI for NAHI, I doubt it!

Are you sure Nick is not lying to you again David? I seem to recall a post you made back in July or so where you said you talked to Nick personally and he told you that neither members or local chapters were effected by the "agreement" and that, for one thing, members would not have to change their logo's to the New InterNachi logo.

Also back in July, before I was "kicked" out for questioniong Nick's Great Victory, I asked Nick, on your message board, which Logo members should or could use, his new inter-Nachi with the little letters, or the InterNachi logo that had already existed for a year or so, which I posted. He claimed that I was confusing his sheep by showing both logo's, isn't it funny though that he later changed his logo to a slightly modified version of the InterNachi logo I had posted. Even more interesting is that now, as myself and others stated back then, all members are required to change their logo's also, just as it said in the original agreement, that the Court is now enforcing. It seems that Nick lied to you once again when he told you that there was no enforceable time limit on changing things, now InterNachi has two more days to comply, funny.

Maybe Nick didn't show up in Court this time because he knew he had already lost, I'd say maybe he didn't show up because, after his conduct celebrating his Great Victory, he was too embarrassed to do so, but we all know Nick is never embarrassed or wrong in his actions don't we. For what ever reason Nick still ends up paying for all the legal fees this time around, at least maybe he saved the money he'd have paid his incompetent attorney to defend a lost cause.

I like how Nick, in his spin, refers to Inspectors who "Accidentally joined the Wrong Association", looking at the requirements and procedures to join the various Association it appears that the only one that could be "accidentally" joined would be InterNachi, which with it's simplistic online exam is the only one someone could join without leaving home, the others require a proctored exam and the completion of a couple of hundred inspections to claim full membership rights and benefits.

I also find it interesting that Nick brings up the "N" word as he calls it, Nazism, which according to his appointed spokesman and dirt deed doer Bushart, is a sign that the argument has been lost, by the person who chooses to use the word.

His claim of having preplanned his change of logo to the current one would make some sense, if he had not defended the original, inadequate, change so vigorously and loudly by telling us how he had "outsmarted" NAHI once again. His spin must work, at least on sheep who continue to believe his every "fabrication" and story line.

I see some "Non-Member" finally posted the Court Decision on your Website at around 1:00PM yesterday, so far only two responses, and one of those is Nick. Quite a different response than to Nicks earlier claims of Victory back in July or so, I wonder why Nick or Bushart weren't in such a big rush to post this new information, and just when they are going to inform the general membership that ALL Nachi Logos must be changed?

Originally Posted by Joseph P. Hagarty

Having been affiliated with the NACHI Organization since the days of fewer than 50 Members, this case deservedly needs to go back to the Courts.

Case should not have been settled.

NACHI will ultimately prevail.

Seeing as Nick did not appear or provide a defense, according to him, in this latest Court Case he will have a very, very difficult time in getting an appeal. According to his posts on your message board no appeal should be necessary, he's not concerned and the Courts finding's. like the original agreement, mean nothing and are of no consequence, at least, again, according to Nick, He claims that he will not pay any legal fees this time, because he didn't incur any, the Judge seems to disagree. Like I asked Mr. Nice, just how many times are you going to believe Nick's stories before you begin to show some doubt as to his honesty.

It seems that the Court, by Nick's statement, has found that InterNachi Members are part of this legal battle and are effected by its decision, contrary to what Nick and his followers, like you, have been preaching. He says he made no response, yet the Court Record shows that he responded at least twice. hmmmm? I'm wondering that seeing as members are apart of the settlement, if Nick refuses to pay NAHI's legal fees, whether or not NAHI could take action through the Court to collect those fee's from Michigan InterNachi Inspectors and Chapters, just a thought.

Dan, we have no legal bills for defending that little Minneapolis association's latest attack. We presented no defense to it at all. We didn't even respond to the motion they filed. Now can you figure out why?.... N. Gromicko
NACHI Inspectors are stupid - InterNACHI Message Board

I *knew* this is where this thread would lead to.

I predict that this is far from over and that the lawyers will be back before the judge when NAHI (I am a member) goes to collect on the legal fees it is now entitled to. Kinda reminds me of when Richard Butler of the Aryan Nations lost the 20 acre headquarters compound in Idaho....


Could Nick lose as well? Nederland may be a nicer place..

Sorry I couldn't resist,

//Rick

I'm just glad you can be a HI without being a member of any aftermarket organization. These groups are like "glass-packs" on a stock vehicle. They sound good but don't improve the performance.

Originally Posted by James Duffin

I'm just glad you can be a HI without being a member of any aftermarket organization.

That's the problem, and the reason NACHI came to exist ... PA requires their members to belong to an 'national' association. I have been told that this was promulgated by PA ASHI members who were trying to protect their territory from newer inspectors who could not 'just join' a 'national association', that they had to go through the hazing process to join and become a 'member' before the new inspectors could actually begin inspecting and start taking 'market share' from the 'olde guard'.

Thus, if the above has any ring of truth in it, ASHI method and intelligence is responsible for the existence of NACHI.

How about those apples?

Originally Posted by Lewis Capaul

Maybe Nick didn't show up in Court this time because he knew he had already lost,

If I Knew I was Not in Compliance with the Federal Courts earlier Ruling and was not compelled to attend a compliance hearing I would not GO! Contempt of Court would be a very Real Possibility.

As far as Having a Judgment Entered against you and saying there are no Legal Fees.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

That's the problem, and the reason NACHI came to exist ... PA requires their members to belong to an 'national' association. I have been told that this was promulgated by PA ASHI members who were trying to protect their territory from newer inspectors who could not 'just join' a 'national association', that they had to go through the hazing process to join and become a 'member' before the new inspectors could actually begin inspecting and start taking 'market share' from the 'olde guard'.

Thus, if the above has any ring of truth in it, ASHI method and intelligence is responsible for the existence of NACHI.

How about those apples?

Pretty accurate representation.

NACHI was originally formed (in the Early 1990's) to be comprised of a select (few) number of Elite Inspectors. Legislation spearheaded by ASHI in PA defined a Home Inspection Organization as having Members in 10 States.

As a result, the Pennsylvania Association of Home Inspectors (PABI) ceased to exist.

NACHI (without an internet presence in 2000-2001) expanded its recruitment efforts to become not only a National but International Organization in market penetration. I worked with Nick to recruit and establish the Singapore Chapter of NACHI.

PA Legislation (in small part) along with the up and coming ASHI Branding Efforts (a large factor) drove the NACHI membership ranks into the thousands.

The early growth of NACHI was planned and deliberate focusing on key geographic markets and opportunities afforded by the Alternative Associations who failed to fulfill the needs of their respective Members.

Wow....those tales are pretty amazing! I now feel fortunate that I am able to inspect without the blessing of anyone but the state.

Originally Posted by Lewis Capaul

Are you sure Nick is not lying to you again David? I seem to recall a post you made back in July or so where you said you talked to Nick personally and he told you that neither members or local chapters were effected by the "agreement" and that, for one thing, members would not have to change their logo's to the New InterNachi logo.

<snip>...Even more interesting is that now, as myself and others stated back then, all members are required to change their logo's also, just as it said in the original agreement, that the Court is now enforcing.

Lewis,

As usual you don't know what you are talking about. Do you have a problem reading? NACHI members are not a party to the suit and are under no obligation to change anything, ever! If you will notice in the order, it was NAHI that referenced Nick's statement and the judge addressed the other issues but kept silent on that issue and granted NAHI nothing in that regard.

It doesn't take a law degree to understand that a judge cannot enforce an order on people (or organizations) who are not a party to the matter. NACHI members are not NACHI owners and have no control over what the corporation does. The court can only enforce a matter (as it has) to the corporation and it's paid employees, period. Get over it.

No doubt most members will eventually use the new logo but no judge in Michigan is going to order thousands of businesses across the country to change the logos on their marketing materials and those painted on the side of their vehicles. (Hence the judges silence) Expecting them to do so is just another example of NAHIs malicious intent and hope to also drive NACHI members out of business. Some of their members and a chapter in PA has crossed over the line and will likely pay dearly.

Originally Posted by Brandon Chew

More significant than a NAHI "victory" or any association vs association bashing that may erupt as a result of this thread, if I was a NACHI inspector I would be extremely concerned...,<snip>


Is NACHI going to be able to meet the court imposed deadline that is four days from today? If not, what happens then?

A 2-3 year appeals process.

PA Legislation (in small part) along with the up and coming ASHI Branding Efforts (a large factor) drove the NACHI membership ranks into the thousands..

PA Legislation drove Nachi membership and ASHI desertions drove "thousands" of members into Nachi???? Do you even think before you spout Nick's propaganda Joe?

You know as well as the rest of us that what drove "Nick's Club" membership up was an internet marketing campaign and lack of standards for becoming "Certified", along with the right to use a "Certified" logo instead of having to be a Candidate or Associate to market an Inspectors membership in an Association. The ability to advertise a Certification without the need to have any experience at all by taking a simple online test, that anyone could take in someone else's name. As I understand it the "Test" wasn't even a requirement when you first started, is that true?

Like one of you and Bushart's favorite Nachi memberrs said earlier this year, ""I've been told behind the scenes that NACHI is for newbies until they get their feet and then they move on to ASHI when they are ready to fly and be professionals. "

As far as being confused, the only confusion that many Inspectors suffer are those InterNachi members who believed they had joined a real Home Inspector's Association , it seems that many are leaving once they realize the mistake they made, or as your favorite member said, performed enough inspections to join a Real Association, if they feel the need to belong to one at all.

Originally Posted by Lewis Capaul

... it seems that many are leaving once they realize the mistake they made, or as your favorite member said, performed enough inspections to join a Real Association, if they feel the need to belong to one at all.

Funny that it took your getting thrown out to get you to leave.

OH, I forgot. I had agreed (some time back) not to engage you due to your circular thinking and antagonism. So go ahead and get the last word. It will probably be another fabrication of yours anyway. Too bad you don't realize how incredibly transparent you are. Bye

Originally Posted by David Nice

A 2-3 year appeals process.

Dave,

Please take a deep breath and reread the Federal Court Review.

The parties agreed to dismiss all other pending proceedings.

The Defendant named in the suit is NACHI.

Nick was excluded by agreement from any liability,individually,as an officer,director. Page 6 of 20

Defendant agrees to change it's name------in all other public uses--commercial,publicity and marketing purposes. Defendant will use the name "INTERNACHI"

This is a Federal Court and not some judge in Mich.

I have no dog in this just Reading.

Originally Posted by David Nice

Lewis,

As usual you don't know what you are talking about. Do you have a problem reading? NACHI members are not a party to the suit and are under no obligation to change anything, ever! If you will notice in the order, it was NAHI that referenced Nick's statement and the judge addressed the other issues but kept silent on that issue and granted NAHI nothing in that regard.

It doesn't take a law degree to understand that a judge cannot enforce an order on people (or organizations) who are not a party to the matter. NACHI members are not NACHI owners and have no control over what the corporation does. The court can only enforce a matter (as it has) to the corporation and it's paid employees, period. Get over it.

No doubt most members will eventually use the new logo but no judge in Michigan is going to order thousands of businesses across the country to change the logos on their marketing materials and those painted on the side of their vehicles. (Hence the judges silence) Expecting them to do so is just another example of NAHIs malicious intent and hope to also drive NACHI members out of business. Some of their members and a chapter in PA has crossed over the line and will likely pay dearly.

Maybe the Judge should have included cartoon drawings in his opinion so people like you can understand without having to read. Maybe you missed this part: On September 17,2007, Defendant filed a Reply to Plaintiffs Response arguing that: (1)
changing all references from "NACHI" to "INTERNACHI" requires a substantial and timeconsuming
effort; (2) Defendant's MEMBERS will be REQUIRED to switch to the "INTERNACHI"
name once the new INTERNACHI.org site is launched;

I do believe the Defendant is Nick Gromicko and Nachi and NAHI the Plaintiff. Of course Nick told all you sheep that he didn't respond or take part in this at all seeing as it was so insignificant and unimportant to him, he also responded on Sept 12 if you read the Judges opinion instead of Nick's latest spin.

As far as an Appeal, if what Nick said is true, that he ignored this action, then he will have a very difficult time in convincing any Judge to accept an appeal. When you don't show up at a hearing you waive that right in most instances, by not showing up you accept the judgment of the court, however it comes out. Nick's disdain for the court and his publicly posted remarks after this judgment, like his remarks after the first agreement, won't play too well in any Judges Court.

He says he doesn't have any legal costs to pay, the judge says different. According to this judgment or opinion, members are included in the court ordered settlement, I'm not saying they can or even would, but NAHI may have a claim against Nachi members in Michigan if Nick refuses to settle and they the members continue to use the NACHI Logo.

What you don't seem to understand is that except for on the paperwork that was used to set up Nachi as a corporation and nonprofit organization, NACHI no longer exists. Nick, by this order can no longer call his Association NACHI or refer to it as such in any marketing, it is now InterNachi, neither can any other business, and yes a Federal Judge's ruling can effect all Nachi Inspectors, if not then NAHI could file the same lawsuit against individuals who continue to use the NACHI logos, using this judgment as precedence.

We've had this discussion before, you were wrong on every point, the Judge decided almost exactly as myself and others predicted, and Nick by his reply on Sept. 17 sealed the deal, if you had any argument about whether or not changing your logo was mandatory or not you don't now, read his reply once again...MEMBERS....REQUIRED.

Two more days and at least one of Nick's sites should disappear, Home Inspector - The National Association of Certified Home Inspectors, it's mirror site INTERNACHI.ORG is up and running, it will be interesting if it doesn't.

Confused seems to be the new catch phrase for InterNachi sheep, I can see why, the sheep can't read.

Originally Posted by David Nice

Funny that it took your getting thrown out to get you to leave.

OH, I forgot. I had agreed (some time back) not to engage you due to your circular thinking and antagonism. So go ahead and get the last word. It will probably be another fabrication of yours anyway. Too bad you don't realize how incredibly transparent you are. Bye

You keep making accusations of fabrications David, show me one, your buddy Mr Larson couldn't demonstrate any fabrication on my part either after making the same accusations, unfounded accusations and name calling seem to be the only play book you guys have. If you want to read fabrications goe to your own message board and start reading Nick's statements over this matter beginning around the middle of July, compare his statements then about Logos , who had to change them, and the "confusion" caused by my posting the InterNachi logo that he now uses in a slightly modified form, how adding "inter" to his logo wasn't a change, and then compare it to the logo he now uses and his statement to the court on 17 Sept......there's fabrication.

Poor Dave, sold out by his fearless and wonderful leader.

Originally Posted by Billy Stephens

Dave,

Please take a deep breath and reread the Federal Court Review.

The parties agreed to dismiss all other pending proceedings.

Except for tose in PA (that is part of the agreement) page 9 item #10 and I'm breathing fine thanks.

The Defendant named in the suit is NACHI.

Nick was excluded by agreement from any liability,individually,as an officer,director. Page 6 of 20

Defendant agrees to change it's name------in all other public uses--commercial,publicity and marketing purposes. Defendant will use the name "INTERNACHI"[/quote]

So what s your point.

This is a Federal Court and not some judge in Mich.

I have no dog in this just Reading.

It is a Federal Court because it is a Federal Matter but the juristiction of the Southern Division of the Eastern district of Michigan was mutaully agreed upon by both parties. That does not give it juristiction over people who are not officers or employees of the corporation and still no authority over business owners in 50 states+.

An agreement that al members will be required to change logos would simply be unenforcable. The click to verify logos on members websites changed automatically. They are on the NACHI server system. That is the only use of logos that NACHI has any control over. One can see in the order itself that the terms of the agreement never included requiring mermbers to switch logos..

Can you just imagine the US District Court Souther Division of the Easter District of Michigan mobilizing the FBI to run around the country arresting inspectors for having a NACHI logos on their trucks and brochures, on NAHI's behalf. One might have to change the NAHI name by switching the "H' for a "Z".

Originally Posted by David Nice

Except for tose in PA (that is part of the agreement) page 9 item #10 and I'm breathing fine thanks.


Thats a PA State matter.

The Defendant named in the suit is NACHI.

Nick was excluded by agreement from any liability,individually,as an officer,director. Page 6 of 20

Defendant agrees to change it's name------in all other public uses--commercial,publicity and marketing purposes. Defendant will use the name "INTERNACHI"

So what s your point.

Billy
NACHI is the defendant Not Corporate Officers or Individuals the whole Group.
The Federal Court System has many Jurisdictions. They agreed on this one instead of say New York, Missouri, Western Tennessee.


Dave
It is a Federal Court because it is a Federal Matter but the juristiction of the Southern Division of the Eastern district of Michigan was mutaully agreed upon by both parties. That does not give it juristiction over people who are not officers or employees of the corporation and still no authority over business owners in 50 states+.


Billy
A Federal Judgment is good in any part of the country and is enforceable anywhere
not just in say Michigan.


Dave
An agreement that al members will be required to change logos would simply be unenforcable. The click to verify logos on members websites changed automatically. They are on the NACHI server system. That is the only use of logos that NACHI has any control over. One can see in the order itself that the terms of the agreement never included requiring mermbers to switch logos..


Dave
Can you just imagine the US District Court Souther Division of the Easter District of Michigan mobilizing the FBI to run around the country arresting inspectors for having a NACHI logos on their trucks and brochures, on NAHI's behalf. One might have to change the NAHI name by switching the "H' for a "Z".

Billy
No but I can imagine Federal Court houses all over that would hear a complaint
brought before it based on this case.

The still pending litigation in PA is a Pennsylvania State Law matter not Federal


The agree upon dropped litigation was with prejudice so they can not be reinstated.

Can you just imagine the US District Court Souther Division of the Easter District of Michigan mobilizing the FBI to run around the country arresting inspectors for having a NACHI logos on their trucks and brochures, on NAHI's behalf. One might have to change the NAHI name by switching the "H' for a "Z".[/B][/I]

[/QUOTE]

You really are a lamb aren't you David, blindly following the ringing of the head sheep's bell. Nick make's reference to Nazism in his spin about being confused, and here you are just tagging along making the same sounds.

Another of your Hero's though, Bushart, claims that the first person to bring up the Nazi reference has already lost the argument, but then you, Nick and others lost this one 4 months ago, the Judge just made it official.

Associations already enforce the unauthorized use of their logo's and marketing materials David, some like InterNachi and ASHI threaten inspectors with lawsuits if they do not remove them from marketing materials. InterNachi even kicks people out for NOT Displaying the InterNachi Logo, so it would not be too difficult for NAHI to use the same methods in enforcing the Judges order anywhere in the Nation. No need for the FBI.

Originally Posted by Lewis Capaul

PA Legislation drove Nachi membership and ASHI desertions drove "thousands" of members into Nachi???? Do you even think before you spout Nick's propaganda Joe?

I do not recall Nick ever making a suggestion. I posted only what I Know to be Factual.

I participated with Nick in a national recruitment campaign to expand the Membership of NACHI. Hundreds of Member Applications were received by myself for processing / forwarding.

- ASHI missed the mark with Branding.
- NACHI capitalized upon it.

Win-Win for all...

Originally Posted by Lewis Capaul

As I understand it the "Test" wasn't even a requirement when you first started, is that true?

In the early days of NACHI, Most Inspectors were already Members of ASHI and NAHI.

THE ASHI, NHIE, NAHI, NIBI, etc... exams were (and continue to remain) qualifiers for Membership. NACHI developed its own exam sometime in 2000 to the best of my recollection.

A question for those of you who know or are student of this court case.

Does this new ruling mean that after November 20, 2007 (tomorrow) that the NACHI Internet address of Home Inspector - The National Association of Certified Home Inspectors can no longer be used? And that it must now be INTERNACHI.ORG

I really do not know the answer to this, but this would be the largest blow of all. Nick depends so much on the Internet that this could really hurt.

Thread drift: Has anyone ever put a pen to the paper and compared what NACHI tax forms say to what Nick purports? I was shown the 2006 figures last week and if you take the amount of money NACHI took in and divide it by $289 you come up with about 4,000 members, far short of the famed 10,000.

Originally Posted by Scott Patterson

... Thread drift: Has anyone ever put a pen to the paper and compared what NACHI tax forms say to what Nick purports? I was shown the 2006 figures last week and if you take the amount of money NACHI took in and divide it by $289 you come up with about 4,000 members, far short of the famed 10,000.

I personally know several 'members' that were gratis. Now ... can that be summed up to 6K free membership?

Originally Posted by Scott Patterson

A question for those of you who know or are student of this court case.

Does this new ruling mean that after November 20, 2007 (tomorrow) that the NACHI Internet address of Home Inspector - The National Association of Certified Home Inspectors can no longer be used? And that it must now be INTERNACHI.ORG

I really do not know the answer to this, but this would be the largest blow of all. Nick depends so much on the Internet that this could really hurt.

No,the domain name can continue to be used.

Thread drift: Has anyone ever put a pen to the paper and compared what NACHI tax forms say to what Nick purports? I was shown the 2006 figures last week and if you take the amount of money NACHI took in and divide it by $289 you come up with about 4,000 members, far short of the famed 10,000.

Most recent stats put the membership at right about 8000+. That is down a bit as one would expect in a supressed market. The numbers do not add up because everyone does not pay the $289. There are free 1 year memberships raffled of at many chapter meetings as well as discounts in conjuction with educational events. There is no way to use the tax returns to determine membership.

Campare that with the 890 members left in NAHI. That is nearly half of their recently claimed total of 1700+ (which was really more like 1200+). That is some pretty grim handwriting on the wall. So after spending a bunch of money on legal fees to try to persue a pretty bogus case to begin with, can they really convince their members that they are somehow winners of anything of real value?

Quote from D. Nice:
"Campare that with the 890 members left in NAHI. That is nearly half of their recently claimed total of 1700+ (which was really more like 1200+). That is some pretty grim handwriting on the wall. So after spending a bunch of money on legal fees to try to persue a pretty bogus case to begin with, can they really convince their members that they are somehow winners of anything of real value?"
__________________________________________________ ______

You might want to go back and review the document posted... the legal fees are to be paid by INterNachi... not NAHI.


The court awarded reasonable attorney's fees in connection with bringing the July 27th motion, including the Plaintiff's counsel's briefing and the appearance at the September 5th 2007 motion hearing. The only thing the court did not award attorney's fees for was in connection with the supplemental briefing (see page 19).

rr

Originally Posted by Joseph P. Hagarty

I do not recall Nick ever making a suggestion. I posted only what I Know to be Factual.

I participated with Nick in a national recruitment campaign to expand the Membership of NACHI. Hundreds of Member Applications were received by myself for processing / forwarding.

- ASHI missed the mark with Branding.
- NACHI capitalized upon it.

Win-Win for all...

How many InterNachi members are there in PA Joe, and how did any legislation there drive "thousands" into Nick's Association. Recent polls conducted on your own message board show that most members join Nachi and then move on to ASHI than join after being members of ASHI. Ms Forsyth seems to have been correct when she posted her "behind the scenes information about why people joined your association.

I don't disagree with your story of why or how Nachi began, only in the exaggeration that "thousands" were driven there by PA legislation and ASHI policy. No doubt many ASHI members may have joined because of dissatisfaction with ASHI, but many (most?) of those kept there ASHI memberships, and still do today.

As far as numbers go today, supposedly Nick claims 8000, down from 10,000 in February. As Scott pointed out, membership fees collected only show around 4000 members, does that mean that the missing 4000 may be Nick's Vendors?

10k to 8k, that's a 20&#37; drop in membership, just months after Nick was telling everyone how their memberships would be worth Thousands of $$$$ due to membership having reached his 10k limit, I asked him back then about after reaching his 10k membership limit he was still giving away free memberships every where you looked, and if he was doing that because of the great number of members who left after their first free year of membership, I was told membership numbers were none of my business.

20% seems pretty low for what I've seen around here and what others have reported in different areas of the West, InterNachi has suffered 70% to 80% drops in membership here, while ASHI, NAHI, and the franchises have remained the same. Why is that?

I do agree with Nick though, many Inspectors and wannabe Inspectors were confused when they joined Nachi, they thought they were joining a Home Inspectors Association, not a Public Relations Firm.

The issue in this thread though is the Case in Michigan and the consequences to InterNachi members who must, as many of us said months ago, now change there logos and marketing, just as it was stated in the original agreement before Nick's lies about members not being effected.

Why isn't this getting all the attention over there in Nick's World that his original Victory celebration received, it seems his flock have little to say about the judgment there, and those who agree with the Judge are too afraid to argue about it for fear that they may be "Kicked Out" before their memberships expire. That has been known to happen in Nick's World.

David Nice,

A review of your 95 post and 3 threads shows NACHI or related (maybe 3 other being nice),inputs.

Your wed site and Google search shows Server Not Found.

Are you a party of this litigation?

Is your name correct?

Where are you from?

What do you do for a living?

Please post something creditable to confirm your identify.

Dave,

Never mind as I see you are Founder and President of Wisconsin Chapter NACHI.

Strange you have not commented on this subject at INTERNACI site.

Originally Posted by Richard Rushing

Quote from D. Nice:
"Campare that with the 890 members left in NAHI. That is nearly half of their recently claimed total of 1700+ (which was really more like 1200+). That is some pretty grim handwriting on the wall. So after spending a bunch of money on legal fees to try to persue a pretty bogus case to begin with, can they really convince their members that they are somehow winners of anything of real value?"
__________________________________________________ ______

You might want to go back and review the document posted... the legal fees are to be paid by INterNachi... not NAHI.


The court awarded reasonable attorney's fees in connection with bringing the July 27th motion, including the Plaintiff's counsel's briefing and the appearance at the September 5th 2007 motion hearing. The only thing the court did not award attorney's fees for was in connection with the supplemental briefing (see page 19).

rr

Not quite. There was the prep and filing for the case, earlier hearings and all the depositions $$ and work towards nailing down the agreement. NAHI was not awarded attorneys fees for any of that AND not for the supplimental briefing. 1 motion and 1 hearing, that's it.

Originally Posted by Billy Stephens

David Nice,

A review of your 95 post and 3 threads shows NACHI or related (maybe 3 other being nice),inputs.

You reviewed 95 of my posts to tell me that? Now who are the sick ones here.

Your wed site and Google search shows Server Not Found.

Server is temporarily down, try again later.

Are you a party of this litigation?

No

Is your name correct?

That depends.

Where are you from?

Read my sig

What do you do for a living?

Please post something creditable to confirm your identify.

Dave,

Never mind as I see you are Founder and President of Wisconsin Chapter NACHI.

Strange you have not commented on this subject at INTERNACI site.

Not strange at all. For the most part we understand the settlement and have moved on. I can see that some here don't really understand some of the details and nuances of the settlement but claim that they do. It is not easy to wade through court documents and figure out what it really means.

Originally Posted by Lewis Capaul

The issue in this thread though is the Case in Michigan and the consequences to InterNachi members who must, as many of us said months ago, now change there logos and marketing, just as it was stated in the original agreement before Nick's lies about members not being effected.

You apparently think that if you keep repeating it that it will somehow magically become true.

Dave,

Thank You for unblocking your site.

Thank You for displaying the INTERNACI Logo on your site.

Thank You for your Interpretations of a plainly written Federal Court Order.

Thank You for your concerns for my health.(wasted 18 seconds scanning subject topics listed for you)

Surely you have many things to do in the state of Wisconsin concerning upcoming changes other than Help some of us understand,get over it and move on.

Originally Posted by David Nice

You apparently think that if you keep repeating it that it will somehow magically become true.

The fact that all InterNachi members must change their marketing to InterNachi is already true David, Nick said so in his own statement.

You may be right that members can get away with not changing because of lack of enforcement, that seems to be the Nachi/InterNachi response to any Law of Judgment they don't like, just read the hundreds of posts made by your buddy Bushart about Washington SPI Licensing and the thread about his loophole logic and how he could get around any HI Law written, and even that might be true, not honest and not in accordance with your COE, but then Bushart controls that, but it does seem to be the InterNachi way.

Ignoring State Laws, Court Judgements, using Loopholes, that says a lot right there about many of the Inspectors in your organization, thankfully there are many honest and capable Inspectors there who don't go along with your leader's policies regarding that. You don't seem to be one of those.

I could post Nick's "reply" regarding the Change in Logo etc. again, but you've proven that you can't read or comprehend, others can, they've already read what Nick said, and find it clear.

Me I'm just trying to stir the pot and get as many InterNachi replies on this matter as I can, if InterNachi fails to obey the Judges order in the way he described, then he will have many more Internet postings to use as to why his order was not complied with, just like he had for making his decision this time.

Just think, if Nick and the Gang had not celebrated so "loudly" back in July, Nick may have had a defense when it came to this motion, he won't have any the next time either.

I hope Brian is collecting advertizing $s from nick for all the publicly he's getting here..especially when nicks moto is.. any source of advertizing is good advertizing for him.

Originally Posted by Dan Harris

. any source of advertizing is good .

Dan,

I would not think this is the case.

Originally Posted by Billy Stephens

Dave,

Thank You for unblocking your site.

Thank You for displaying the INTERNACI Logo on your site.

Thank You for your Interpretations of a plainly written Federal Court Order.

Thank You for your concerns for my health.(wasted 18 seconds scanning subject topics listed for you)

Surely you have many things to do in the state of Wisconsin concerning upcoming changes other than Help some of us understand,get over it and move on.

1. Never blocked my site, just a server problem.
2. The InterNACHI logo was not my doing. It is part of a click to verify link that is on the nachi.org server. Not my doing.
3. Some people can't seem to differentiate the allegations from the order.
5. Though I don't wish it on anyone, I probably don't care if you drop dead tomorrow.
6. There is plenty to do here in Wisconsin but nonthing that is even remotely related to any alleged reqirements.

Originally Posted by David Nice

Though I don't wish it on anyone, I probably don't care if you drop dead tomorrow.

Does that Mean We can't be friends Dave ?

Originally Posted by Billy Stephens

Does that Mean We can't be friends Dave ?

No, its just the current truth. Nothing is engraved in stone, unless of course it is something engraved in stone.

Originally Posted by David Nice

No, its just the current truth. Nothing is engraved in stone, unless of course it is something engraved in stone.

Ah Dave and I was pulling for you on that Truck Driving Gig.

In Michigan its 11/20/07 and InterNachi is going to have either prove that it has met the terms or face the cold hard wheels of justice.

Will they meet the terms? stay tuned!

Originally Posted by Rick Bunzel

In Michigan its 11/20/07 and InterNachi is going to have either prove that it has met the terms or face the cold hard wheels of justice.

Will they meet the terms? stay tuned!

Who in Michigan will be required to provide this proof? The inspector on the street? The association located in Colorado? Nick Gromicko?

Do you think that NAHI (spit) can really win anything here, once NAHI has pissed away its last members dollars in legal fees what then prevents InterNACHI from moving its operations to the Grand Caymans outside the grasp of this district court? Grab cold beverage and relax, we ain't even at half-time.

If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, you have obviously underestimated your opponents strength.