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    Default Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    DAILY NEWS Feb 23, 2016 10:39 AM - 0 comments
    Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    2016-02-23

    A bill proposing to mandate the licensing of home inspectors in Ontario, and to stipulate inspectors’ liability insurance coverage, was tabled Monday at Queen's Park in Toronto.


    Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    DAILY NEWS Feb 23, 2016 10:39 AM - 0 comments
    Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    2016-02-23

    A bill proposing to mandate the licensing of home inspectors in Ontario, and to stipulate inspectors’ liability insurance coverage, was tabled Monday at Queen's Park in Toronto.


    Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario
    Here's the proposed Bill
    Legislative Assembly of Ontario | Bills & Lawmaking | Current Parliament | Bill 165, Licensed Home Inspectors Act, 2016


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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    Ray, Claude, thank you.

    I find it dumb founding that the regulatory side of Real estate did not get a good dressing down.
    This has to be the biggest influence on new home inspection businesses.

    When the provincial Government Ontario consultations were on there way, addressing committees, including consumer protection, about home inspection industry regulations, was REA's ever brought up?

    As you well know from being in business and reaching out to REA as you marketed yourself, what where you exposed to?
    As well, as you dealt with REA's what did you succumb to in how they acted during a inspection phase.

    Why isn't the whole truth being brought to light.
    Why is the home inspection industry being focused upon when many of you/us rightfully know what goes on in the RE industry during a sale.
    I dare say illegal but breaking their COE, that's a no brainer for many.

    No other industry would be able to get away with this except for deep lobbing pockets and the large percentage of GDP RE bring in as tax dollars.

    REA acting as buyers agents, telling home inspectors and the unsuspecting purchaser they are the buyers agent while working for the vendor.
    No singed contracts.
    Given the wrong sellers decorations.
    Once exposed you are bribed with work not to say a thing.
    Once you refuse the day turns into a nigh-mere.

    If this house sells, I will refer you to our brokerage.
    Continually bribes.
    Other REA showing the house while you are inspecting with your client.
    I have seen 3 walk thoughts in 2 hours.

    Intimidation, bribery, thrown off of jobs by REA forcefully.
    2 under my arms while one threw my tools in the truck after 1 hour.

    Threatening bodily harm on the job.
    Being locked out in the winter cold in sub zero temperatures for extended time.
    Purposely and willingly concealing defects.

    That's what happens to new homies looking to start a business.
    Yes homies are the cause of poor inspections.

    Dam, what the hell is going on.
    Yet everyone closes their mouth because they are afraid they will not get REA referrals.
    What the hell is wrong with you all????????

    Ray, Claude. I look to you guys to get the word out and protect the consumer!!!!!
    That's what I am here for. To protect the consumer, my livelihood and to eak out a space in the home inspection industry. I love my job.

    Last edited by ROBERT YOUNG; 02-23-2016 at 02:49 PM.
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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    Read the preamble.
    PreambleThe purchase of a home is the largest investment most homeowners will make in their lifetime and homebuyers are increasingly reliant on home inspectors.
    BUNK! They rely on the real estate agent.
    As you all well know most claims are without merit.

    If there is a separation of both parties/industries, and that includes from anyone, the CMHC saw the light, then we might have an industry that can be managed.

    Sorry for the post below but I am ashamed of others that do not speak out about the truth.
    Shame on you. I thought your mother brought up up better than that.
    And yes there are some real professional REA out there.
    I am happy every time we meet.







    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    Robert

    Your noted concerns are not lost on me. I am fortunate that I have been around long enough now that I don't have to rely on Realtors, for work, even though I get the occasional referral from them.

    Now we must wait and see if this baby is going to pass 2nd and 3rd readings.


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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    Robert

    Your noted concerns are not lost on me. I am fortunate that I have been around long enough now that I don't have to rely on Realtors, for work, even though I get the occasional referral from them.

    Now we must wait and see if this baby is going to pass 2nd and 3rd readings.
    Keep up the good work Ray.
    I know you have a stake in this buddy.

    You know me. I have to speak my mind when so much is at stake.
    Gees Louise, they even listened to Mike Holmes as he fast tracked a franchise for his son so Mike could earn 50% without any liability.
    Ray...What the hell is going on?

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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    More info

    Official Records for 22 February 2016
    Legislative Assembly of Ontario | Debates & Proceedings

    Legislative Assembly of Ontario | Debates & Proceedings | Debates (Hansard) | Official Records for 22 February 2016

    Introduction of Bills
    Licensed Home Inspectors Act, 2016 / Loi de 2016 sur les inspecteurs d’habitations titulaires d’un permis

    Mr. Dong moved first reading of the following bill:

    Bill 165, An Act to regulate home inspectors / Projet de loi 165, Loi visant à réglementer les inspecteurs d’habitations.

    The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

    First reading agreed to.

    The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member for a short statement.

    Mr. Han Dong: In my riding of Trinity–Spadina, there have been a lot of changes. There are a lot of homes being bought up by younger families, and I just heard over and over in my constituency that this is very, very necessary to provide a layer of consumer protection. I think this is the time to do it, and I hope all members will be, after they study the details of the bill, supportive of this bill.


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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    Bill 165 An Act to regulate home inspectors

    As President I want to let you know about the introduction of provincial legislation introduced on Feb. 22, 2016. It's now been several years since the Ministry of Government and Consumer Services let it be know that they intend to regulate home inspectors by an external self-regulating and self-financing body known as a Designation Administrative Authority (DAA).

    This proposed legislation simply gives the government ministries the power to set standards for licensing, qualification, performance standards, insurance and any other matters related to performing home inspections in Ontario. It also lets the government designate an existing not for profit corporation as a DAA and sets accountability and operating standards for the DAA.

    The first question you will likely ask is how this legislation will affect existing OAHI member home inspectors and non-member home inspectors. The answer is that the legislation does not mention the issue. It leaves it up to the DAA to decide. We speculate there will be some form of grandfathering, but there could be some form of testing. We can expect that there will be some time to migrate to the mandatory licensing as proposed.

    The second question you will likely be asking is what happens to the OAHI. The answer is that it is not mentioned in the proposed legislation. We know that the pre-existing Ontario Association of Home Inspectors Act (PR158 from 1994) is a problem for the government, since there can not be two competing regulatory Acts for the same group and there is no precedent for taking away previously granted rights. We expect to have formal discussions with the government and will have a lawyer working on our behalf. Among the future possibilities are the OAHI becoming the DAA, the OAHI becoming a separate member advocacy body and the OAHI dissolving.

    The third question you will likely be asking is whether I should renew my OAHI membership if there will soon be a new licensing body in place. The answer is that you need to maintain your membership to ensure that your credentials remain current and that you can take part in any future grandfathering, should it occur. The board considers there will be no change at this time to our education and business plans. There will be no change to the OAHI Annual Meeting or the OAHI Conference, except that we will make time for discussions of these recent developments and hear your views.

    Murray Parish

    President

    Ontario Association of Home Inspectors & CAHPI Ontario


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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    Bill 165 An Act to regulate home inspectors

    As President I want to let you know about the introduction of provincial legislation introduced on Feb. 22, 2016. It's now been several years since the Ministry of Government and Consumer Services let it be know that they intend to regulate home inspectors by an external self-regulating and self-financing body known as a Designation Administrative Authority (DAA).

    This proposed legislation simply gives the government ministries the power to set standards for licensing, qualification, performance standards, insurance and any other matters related to performing home inspections in Ontario. It also lets the government designate an existing not for profit corporation as a DAA and sets accountability and operating standards for the DAA.

    The first question you will likely ask is how this legislation will affect existing OAHI member home inspectors and non-member home inspectors. The answer is that the legislation does not mention the issue. It leaves it up to the DAA to decide. We speculate there will be some form of grandfathering, but there could be some form of testing. We can expect that there will be some time to migrate to the mandatory licensing as proposed.

    The second question you will likely be asking is what happens to the OAHI. The answer is that it is not mentioned in the proposed legislation. We know that the pre-existing Ontario Association of Home Inspectors Act (PR158 from 1994) is a problem for the government, since there can not be two competing regulatory Acts for the same group and there is no precedent for taking away previously granted rights. We expect to have formal discussions with the government and will have a lawyer working on our behalf. Among the future possibilities are the OAHI becoming the DAA, the OAHI becoming a separate member advocacy body and the OAHI dissolving.

    The third question you will likely be asking is whether I should renew my OAHI membership if there will soon be a new licensing body in place. The answer is that you need to maintain your membership to ensure that your credentials remain current and that you can take part in any future grandfathering, should it occur. The board considers there will be no change at this time to our education and business plans. There will be no change to the OAHI Annual Meeting or the OAHI Conference, except that we will make time for discussions of these recent developments and hear your views.

    Murray Parish

    President

    Ontario Association of Home Inspectors & CAHPI Ontario
    Raymond,
    As usual, thank you for the update.
    It benefits us all.

    Once again OAHI & CAHPI seem to be the ovature.

    Although the provincial government discussion and any upcoming mechanisms appear to be consumer oriented, to which I applaud vigorously if/when all parties that play a role in the huge transaction are at the table for scrutiny as they should be, the provincial government should also be focusing in on the root causes as to why home inspectors, not many thank God, keep finding-themselves in compromising positions for RE consumers.

    B.C. couple TRICKED into buying....B.C. couple 'tricked' into buying unlivable house - British Columbia - CBC News
    Buyers left with BIG BILLS after the home inspector missed defects...Buyers left with big bills when home inspectors miss defects - British Columbia - CBC News

    Ray, help me out here.
    That is a regulated province is it not?
    Hmmm!

    Also, I am sure the CAPHI inspector had passed all his inspection requirements.

    As for B.C. Even after a second round of rewriting the regulations there appear to be homies doing a poor or inadequate home inspections.

    Lets fast tract back in time to Elaine Young the CBC news caster.
    Home inspector must pay $192,000 - British Columbia - CBC News

    So now lets take the away machine Mr. Peabody, if tomorrow ever comes
    .mr peabody.PNGInsurance and recognised certified homies appear to be not withstanding, at least to unbiased individuals, to which I am sure many astute will agree.

    So what else can be achieved to protect the consumer during a real estate transaction?
    Consider there are only 2 main services parties from what I see.
    1: The REA has 7 to 14 days to communicate their points to the client.
    2: Homies have 4 hours, at best if they wish be make nice, and write a report on condition.

    Do you think referrals and any conditions set for referrals might have something to do with the cosy relationship?

    To bad, so sad for the RE consumer when regulated parties can continually deflect what we all know is quite apparent.


    Raymond, although Mr. Dong has struck a chord that rings partially true, I can not see any fruitful merits to regulations unless an already regulated industry is separated to fullest degree from any contacts during the transaction.

    Wishful thinking from a nave hard working homie with RE consumers best interest at mind and heart.
    Too bad.
    So sad it may never happen.
    Psst, but I still believe in that the right thing prevails overall, and of coarse in Santa

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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    Robert,

    Your use of the term 'homies' seems like you equate home inspectors to 'druggies' and other non-proffessionals who are referred to by unprofessional terms ... and that if home inspectors want to be, or become, seen as professionals ... they need to maintain that in their conversations.

    Me ... I was NEVER ... a 'homie' ...

    Just pointing out something I see you saying frequently.

    I hope few ... if any ... other home inspectors think of themselves in that way.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    Robert

    A few things to consider.

    1. Realtors are a large group, they also vote, and they also have lobbyists = sway.
    2. As long as associations tout their wares to Realtors; well need I say more?
    3. There will always be conflicts of interest. Licencing as we all know does not make someone inclined to be ethical in their biz actions.
    4. Hopefully those that compromise their independence will be in the minority.
    5. Since the Ont. government has only tabled legislation the SOP/COE have yet to be developed, and when that occurs we will all be in a better position to know whether the government had foresight to see this problem of Realtors recommending home inspectors and regulate that Realtors must provide a list of inspectors that the client can choose.

    My hope as that of others is that the government takes the high road and like you suggest has the merit to vet some of these associations were on-line certifications are like chewing gum all driven by marketing hype. That is what inspections in some circles have come down to

    Lets also hope that inadequate oversight by home inspectors overseeing themselves and not following their bylaws or having lack of proper functioning oversight committees has at last seen the last light of day.

    As to Realtors I learn to work with who I want, and I know that I have not made friends amongst a few and I am known as the 'Dealer Blower'. I know who they are and they know who I am and I pity their clients.

    Like home inspectors there are good and bad, ditto doctors, lawyers, agents, home inspectors, P. Eng.... Licencing will never effectively deal with common sense that is most certainly lacking in to days world.

    BC is a regulated province and the first to introduce licencing, but time has shown they got it wrong and rushed into it without doing the necessary background work to ensure good law. Now they are trying to write the wrongs which is a good thing rather than letting it be the end all.


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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Robert,

    Your use of the term 'homies' seems like you equate home inspectors to 'druggies' and other non-proffessionals who are referred to by unprofessional terms ... and that if home inspectors want to be, or become, seen as professionals ... they need to maintain that in their conversations.

    Me ... I was NEVER ... a 'homie' ...

    Just pointing out something I see you saying frequently.

    I hope few ... if any ... other home inspectors think of themselves in that way.
    Well I always thought your were a professional homie (home inspector).
    One of the best by the way.
    Hmmm.

    Jerry, A homie is a reference to a home inspector.
    No derogatory remarks should be implied.

    Homies are not hippies or individuals that live on a the fringes of society because the majority or the population does not conceive they fit in or protesters at the drop of a hat.

    Jerry, unfortunately individuals get lost in the new words, terms and phrases that are accepted by others as main stream today.
    I was perplexed by LOL and still use Ha ha ha.
    If someone posts LOL, I do not draw prejudice on that person.

    Idioms had been around for some time.
    Like, you can not teach an old dog new tricks.
    Good example of a term that stuck, remember?

    Jerry, the term was taken up by myself as a means to express the valued community of home inspectors to which I am involved with and because I think highly of the man the coined the phrase/term homie.

    This is the second time you personally degraded him needlessly, and without even meeting him.

    Roy Cooke championed many causes for the home inspection community in Ontario.
    A true professional.
    One such cause, the need for mandatory fire suppression in all new homes built in Ontario.
    Roy Cooke was also a weekly radio personality devoted to help home-owners understanding the home they live in along with home inspection jargon.
    He has mentor 32 homies, home inspectors, and continues to help even in his retirement years.
    Roy is a recognised Ontario home inspector that passed through many home inspection associations that attribute the true meaning of professional home inspector throughout Ontario and sat on many comities along side Raymond Wand.

    I hope that clarifies any concerns you may have about the term HOMIE Jerry.
    It's a nickname.
    I will discontinue the term homie on the message board if it offends you Jerry.

    Best regards.
    Robert

    .

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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    Robert,

    I understand that 'homie' is a reference to 'home' inspector.

    Whether derogatory or not, it degrades the referenced.

    Should:
    - doctors be called docies
    - lawyers be called lawies
    - professional gymnasts be called gymies
    - politicians be called polies

    The list is endless - we're not 'rappers'

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    Raymond, I understand what you are saying.
    Without addressing the root cause/s, the symptoms persist.
    As the tail continues to wag the dog.
    Too bad.
    So sad.

    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    Glad the politically correct police are on the job.


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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Robert,

    I understand that 'homie' is a reference to 'home' inspector.

    Whether derogatory or not, it degrades the referenced.

    Should:
    - doctors be called docies
    - lawyers be called lawies
    - professional gymnasts be called gymies
    - politicians be called polies

    The list is endless - we're not 'rappers'
    Wow, I thought I threw a good counter narrative.

    Jerry, all the above are refereed to by many circles by many names to which I suspect is a dam good reason. selling out period, excluding gymnasts whom seem to not have crossed the line enough times to demean there profession.

    I will exclude the descriptive narrative here seeing you are offended.
    I am sympathetic and do understand your point never the less.

    I recommend you personally call into question the acts that many of these so called professionals continue to do as you perceive their provisional title embodies ethics & professionalism.

    See in my world your actions speak louder than words and feel so sorry the tail now wags the dog

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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    Many years ago OACETT (Ontario Assoc. of Cert. Engineering Technicians Technologists) had a relationship with OAHI (in the mid or late nineties). The idea was floated that the two bodies could work together and recognize each others credentials. At that time I became an Associate Member of OACETT for several years, but let my membership drop.

    In B.C. ASTTBC created its own home inspection body named BCIPI (British Columbia Institute Property Inspectors). ASTTBC is a Delegated Administrative Authority (DAA) and oversees both bodies.

    Currently there are 9 DAA bodies in Ontario administered in the fashion the government has presented in it's licencing bill. Teaming up with one of them is logical to save costs. Personally speaking OACETT would be another logical choice to oversee home inspectors.

    This is a good explanation - fyi
    https://www.eiseverywhere.com/file_u...thorities3.pdf

    BC Home Inspectors - Propery Inspectors

    Last edited by Raymond Wand; 02-24-2016 at 02:27 PM.

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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    Robert,

    In all world's - actions speak louder than words.

    When one combines less-than-professional words to people who do (as you said) less than professional jobs ... the two will go together and stick together ... if you want to be a 'homie' and invite connotations you don't necessarily want with it ... no skin off my back.

    If you want to be and sound more like a professional ... that elevate all ... or at the least it doesn't help degrade all.

    Maybe I'm old fashioned ... but I've never understood what attraction ththere is to wearing one's pants down below their butt and showing off your underwear ... but ... if homie fits ... wear it ... don't know why you resist 'not' calling yourself a homie ...

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Robert,
    Maybe I'm old fashioned ... but I've never understood what attraction ththere is to wearing one's pants down below their butt and showing off your underwear ... but ... if homie fits ... wear it ... don't know why you resist 'not' calling yourself a homie ...
    Ha ha ha, Saggen pants. Ha ha ha
    I am certain it's a fashion statement meant to impress the other pant below the butt fashion statement doers.

    As for actions speaking louder than words, when it comes to employment,

    3 sins.JPG

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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Robert,

    Maybe I'm old fashioned ...
    No Jerry, not in my books.
    You are a proud of you accomplishments, a sterling professional, a man of convictions, and that transcends time.

    Remember, fashion keeps on repeating itself for a reason, but I concur, sagging pants have no fashion statement and I as well as many others brought up by traditional values and beliefs certainly hope that fashion statement remain locked in 2016:-)
    Gees Louise, Who is the genius that thought of saggen pants anyway.
    Certainly not the ladies.

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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    Many years ago OACETT (Ontario Assoc. of Cert. Engineering Technicians Technologists) had a relationship with OAHI (in the mid or late nineties). The idea was floated that the two bodies could work together and recognize each others credentials. At that time I became an Associate Member of OACETT for several years, but let my membership drop.

    In B.C. ASTTBC created its own home inspection body named BCIPI (British Columbia Institute Property Inspectors). ASTTBC is a Delegated Administrative Authority (DAA) and oversees both bodies.

    Currently there are 9 DAA bodies in Ontario administered in the fashion the government has presented in it's licencing bill. Teaming up with one of them is logical to save costs. Personally speaking OACETT would be another logical choice to oversee home inspectors.

    This is a good explanation - fyi
    https://www.eiseverywhere.com/file_u...thorities3.pdf

    BC Home Inspectors - Propery Inspectors
    Sounds logical and will look further into DAA bodies in my province.

    This returns me back to a previous question I have asked for over 2 to 3 years now.
    Why would not regulating the industry work?
    I would love a discussion on that topic.

    From your governments own web site.
    1: Encourage more businesses to participate in developing better regulations in Ontario.
    2: Help businesses to develop a better understanding of regulations in Ontario and how to comply with them.
    3: Assist the Ontario government in understanding how new regulations may affect the competitiveness of the business sector in this province.
    As the industry evolves legislative amendments can play a role in the development of the regulated industry.

    We all agree, or the majority of us anyway, consumer protection is paramount.
    That being said, the truth of the matter is that our lives as citizens, and our businesses, are actually tightly constrained by millions of rules and regulations.

    Question, why can Uber and it's illegal work force work unabashed and illegally?
    Try to do that as any business and see how far you get tugged back into reality.

    Is it because of the corporate power it holds and government, yes provincial, allowing them to work behind the senses of a over regulated and licensed taxi business?
    Oh yes, licensing of the poor and middle class Liberals.
    Allow the rich like Uber to walk all over regulations and licensing even placing clients at risk.

    Have you ever seen or heard a client complain to the taxi driver to follow the rules of engagement on the road?
    Yea, right!

    Please show me some statical evidence where the numbers show merit that home inspection licencing will help the consumer.
    B.C. as well as every regulated province and state know better as more tax and licensing more create another layer of government and money you will spend at their will.

    A well know voice and advocate for/of home inspection businesses Joe Ferry can show real numbers that equate to, for the most part, lawyers are misinterpreting and even misrepresenting what the home inspector is liable for and charging a good dollar for doing something they know little of.
    Hmmm.

    That speaks volumes as to why I think licensing is wrong.
    As with any purchase, or when dealing with any business, caveat emptor!
    1: This is a power grab by inspectors in favour but not for long, this will make a novice look like pro seemingly having decades of experience. I am pretty sure they will charge acording to the expertise
    2: add money to the coffers of all involved. But where does it come from?
    3: place shinning a light on the party that nodded it's head to licensing, but originally said no before it was in power.
    4: make all the stake holders seem like their efforts were valid.

    Too bad, so sad individuals get caught up with their misguided attentions of reinventing the wheel for the good of us all.

    Last edited by ROBERT YOUNG; 02-26-2016 at 05:24 AM.
    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
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  22. #22
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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    Many years ago OACETT (Ontario Assoc. of Cert. Engineering Technicians Technologists) had a relationship with OAHI (in the mid or late nineties). The idea was floated that the two bodies could work together and recognize each others credentials. At that time I became an Associate Member of OACETT for several years, but let my membership drop.

    In B.C. ASTTBC created its own home inspection body named BCIPI (British Columbia Institute Property Inspectors). ASTTBC is a Delegated Administrative Authority (DAA) and oversees both bodies.

    Currently there are 9 DAA bodies in Ontario administered in the fashion the government has presented in it's licencing bill. Teaming up with one of them is logical to save costs. Personally speaking OACETT would be another logical choice to oversee home inspectors.

    This is a good explanation - fyi
    https://www.eiseverywhere.com/file_u...thorities3.pdf

    BC Home Inspectors - Propery Inspectors
    I would agree in principle. However, perhaps being a little familiar with the BC situation, there have been a number of speed bumps and issues that have caused concerns with "some" home inspectors about such an arrangement. This included "some" members to change organizations.


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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    I also understand that BC CAHPI has pulled out of CAHPI National?


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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    I also understand that BC CAHPI has pulled out of CAHPI National?
    Yes, that is what I understand also. As you likely know Graham Clark is the new president, and I would expect that there may be more fall out. Not because of Graham, in fact I support Graham; but I'm certain he will have his hands full trying to get BC back on "board".

    In fact the whole issue may have an impact on the RHI designation.


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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario


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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    sorry i am a professional home inspector--not a HOMIE--it is a word not in the dictionary--i am a HOMEY THOU--CVF


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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    Quote Originally Posted by CHARLIE VAN FLEET View Post
    sorry i am a professional home inspector--not a HOMIE--it is a word not in the dictionary--i am a HOMEY THOU--CVF
    Thank you for your input.
    HOMIE; Homie | Define Homie at Dictionary.com
    Reference 1945-1950. Because I kinda look at him as my friend, or at least my homie.

    The
    identical word is recorded from the 1920s in NewZealands "recently arrived "British immigrant."

    Best of luck with your endeavours.

    Last edited by ROBERT YOUNG; 03-01-2016 at 07:15 PM.
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  28. #28
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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    2nd Reading & Debate tomorrow (Thursday) March 3rd.


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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    Yup.

    Legislative Assembly of Ontario | Debates & Proceedings | Debates (Hansard) | Official Records for 2 March 2016

    “M” = Private Member’s Public Bill.

    M165. Second Reading of Bill 165, An Act to regulate home inspectors. Mr. Dong. PRINTED.

    Last edited by Raymond Wand; 03-02-2016 at 05:55 AM.

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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    Yup.

    Legislative Assembly of Ontario | Debates & Proceedings | Debates (Hansard) | Official Records for 2 March 2016

    “M” = Private Member’s Public Bill.

    M165. Second Reading of Bill 165, An Act to regulate home inspectors. Mr. Dong. PRINTED.
    Claude, Raymond, thanks for the update and from the Homie who's parent, father, was a British Immigrant.

    I am sure our ancestors where are all immigrants and lets not forget, Canada's parliamentary system derives from the British, or “Westminster”, tradition unless you are a native American.

    To bad, so sad others are not informed about our wonderful and unique heritage.
    Long Live The Queen and thank God for Laura Secord. Making delicious chocolates and Canada sweet sense 1812:-)
    .

    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
    Our Motto; Putting information where you need it most, "In your hands.”

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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    Second reading today. Carried

    Legislative Assembly of Ontario | Debates & Proceedings | Debates (Hansard) | Official Records for 3 March 2016

    M165. Second Reading of Bill 165, An Act to regulate home inspectors. Mr. Dong. PRINTED.

    A petition was presented to the Legislative Assembly, but details are not yet known.

    FYI
    Within 24 sitting days of the day on which the presentation of the petition is recorded, the government is required to file a response.

    Last edited by Raymond Wand; 03-03-2016 at 03:16 PM.

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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    Licensed Home Inspectors Act, 2016 / Loi de 2016 sur les inspecteurs d’habitations titulaires d’un permis

    Mr. Dong moved second reading of the following bill:

    Bill 165, An Act to regulate home inspectors / Projet de loi 165, Loi visant à réglementer les inspecteurs d’habitations.

    The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Pursuant to standing order 98, the member has 12 minutes for his presentation.

    Mr. Han Dong: I’m privileged to rise today to speak to my private member’s bill, titled Licensed Home Inspectors Act. I want to begin by welcoming the stakeholders who are in the gallery and who have remained committed to building a healthy home inspection industry: Len Inkster and Patrick Auriol from the Ontario Association of Certified Home Inspectors, Murray Parish and David Hellyer from the Ontario Association of Home Inspectors, Graham Clarke and T.J. Smith. as well as William Stratas from Eagle Audit. I want to recognize the hard work they’ve done in support of all home inspectors, and I want to make sure that work does not go unnoticed.

    My EA, Shawn Ogborne, my former OLIP intern Sara O’Sullivan and I brought this bill forward to enhance consumer protection for homeowners and to unify the industry.

    The purchase of a home is one of the largest investments homeowners will make in their lifetime. That investment should be protected. Many homebuyers, especially first-time buyers, rely on the expert opinion of a home inspector with regard to the condition of a potential home. However, if you ask homebuyers whether or not they know home inspection is a nonregulated industry, I believe many would be shocked to hear that is no regulated body to license or regulate.

    There is no way for consumers to confidently know their home inspector is meeting the high and consistent standards we expect in Ontario. I have heard over and over from constituents about challenges they have faced with their home purchases that could have been flagged by a qualified home inspector. Now, there are several hard-working home inspector associations that are dedicated to the professionalism of the industry. These associations, some of whom are in the gallery today, have given the industry a strong foundation to build on. However, these associations have varied governing systems and requirements that could be confusing to average consumers.

    Industry stakeholders whom I’ve consulted with have expressed strong support for regulating the industry to make sure it’s sustainable and trusted by Ontarians. This bill, if passed, will create one licensing regime operating under an independent board that reflects different aspects of the home inspection industry. The delegated administrative authority, or DAA, will carry out licensing and other regulatory responsibilities at arm’s length to the Ministry of Government and Consumer Services.

    Regulation by an industry-funded DAA is a way to ensure a more level playing field for home inspectors to operate with similar qualifications. By enforcing a single standard, the DAA would provide greater transparency and consumer protection in the ever-changing market.

    This bill also proposes accountability measures such as minimum mandatory insurance, a code of ethics and other requirements which will be determined in the regulation process. Licensed by the proposed DAA, qualified home inspectors will earn the legal title of “licensed home inspector,” which symbolizes professionalism and industry standard. In short, the creation of a home inspection DAA would provide consistent, reliable service by licensed home inspectors at an affordable price.

    During the consultation process, some asked me, Why a DAA model? Five years ago, Mr. Don Drummond, a prominent economist, published a report that later became known as the Drummond report. In it, Drummond referenced the delegated administrative authority review. This review found that the DAA model worked effectively and efficiently as a regulatory body for consumer protection. The benefits of a DAA were found to be reducing cost to government and reducing size of government as service delivery is transferred to an external, not-for-profit service provider, improving regulatory outcomes and improving efficiency. Government oversight is retained, and there is increased industry engagement through participation on the board.

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    The Drummond report and the DAA review have confirmed that a DAA is the best body to regulate home inspectors. But most importantly, a DAA model was the recommendation of the 2013 panel and was seen as the most beneficial to the majority of those we’ve consulted.

    As mentioned earlier, I have heard issues from many of my constituents in Trinity–Spadina. In one incident, an individual made a large investment in a condo purchase downtown. After electing not to have an inspection done, this individual found a problem that is now causing the family extreme irritation and discomfort in their home. In hindsight, this issue could have been easily flagged by a qualified inspector.

    In addition to speaking to constituents, I spent a long period of time speaking to a variety of stakeholders in the home inspection industry about issues such as getting complaints from consumers about an individual calling himself a home inspector; searching for the individual in the association records only to find out that they don’t belong to their association; and needing to refer the consumer to make a complaint elsewhere because the person is not part of their association.

    The DAA would make navigation easier for consumers: Either they are licensed and can be found through the DAA, or they’re not licensed and are breaking the law. They told me that home inspectors do more than just inspect the house: They act as consultants to homebuyers by also educating them on how to take care of their beloved homes.

    Another interesting use of a home inspection would take place before a major renovation. Based on his or her knowledge and expertise, a licensed inspector would spot potential issues, helping the owner to minimize or avoid financial loss.

    Many stakeholders mentioned that in the hot real estate market, individuals are waiving the option of having a home inspection. I view this as a great loss, especially to first-time homeowners, who, without a home inspection, are taking a risk on their investment and on their family’s health and safety. If passed, the home inspection DAA will build up the profile of the home inspection industry and inject consumer confidence into this invaluable service, encouraging more consumers to utilize home inspectors.

    In 2013, the Ministry of Government and Consumer Services brought together an expert panel to look at qualified home inspectors. The panel included home inspectors, consumer advocates, educators and other professionals in sectors such as real estate, law and insurance. The panel prepared a comprehensive report that recommends the regulation of home inspectors. I want to thank the minister, who’s not here right now—

    Mr. Gilles Bisson: Oh, no, you can’t do that.

    The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): I would remind the member that we’re not supposed to make reference—

    Mr. Han Dong: Thank you, Speaker.

    I want to thank the Minister of Government and Consumer Services for bringing the panel together this past summer, reaffirming the report and continuing to take a leadership role in consumer protection.

    Home inspectors provide an important service to Ontarians as they have the ability to assess a home the way an average consumer cannot. The longevity of the industry very much depends on the trust of Ontarians. Unfortunately, just one unqualified home inspector could breach that trust. A home inspection DAA would allow consumers to know with certainty that the home inspector they’re hiring is qualified and competent.

    Given the record-breaking real estate transactions taking place in Ontario, more than ever we need a reliable, affordable home inspection industry. This bill is about protecting consumers, ensuring sustainability of an industry and upholding the principles of transparency and accountability.

    In closing, I respectfully ask the members of this House for your support for better protection for homeowners and a stronger home inspection industry.

    The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Further debate?

    Mr. Jim McDonell: I’m pleased to rise and speak to Bill 165, An Act to regulate home inspectors.

    This government is indeed sending out mixed messages. First, in the spring of 2012, the Minister of Consumer Services, Ms. Best, states that the number of complaints does not warrant regulation. A year later, the then Minister of Consumer Services strikes an expert panel on home inspection regulation, which reports back in 2013, recommending the regulation of home inspectors. Then we see no action by this government until one of their members, the member from Trinity–Spadina, who obviously is as fed up with this Liberal government’s inaction as the people of Ontario and the official opposition, tables his own private member’s bill.

    While I commend the member on finally taking action and not waiting for a government bill, I am concerned that this bill is issued without taking into consideration the results of the expert panel. It is just a renamed copy of the Condominium Management Services Act. The people of Ontario and the Ontario Association of Home Inspectors deserve more.

    First of all, if the government is indeed writing legislation, as their action might suggest, we ask them to move on it, because the people of Ontario and the home inspectors need protection. Secondly, we need some important amendments to this legislation.

    While we acknowledge that it is important legislation, we are very concerned that this bill creates an agency with so much power and so little oversight and accountability. The new authority is under no oversight by the Ombudsman or any other officers of the Legislature, except the Auditor General, who will be unable to review any of the individual cases that arise. When we talk about one’s home and the purchase or sale of it, the issues can be catastrophic to Ontario families.

    This bill specifically places the authority outside the review of the Standing Committee on Government Agencies. Since the government is writing its own bill, we would ask for the same amendments to it as to this bill: oversight by the Standing Committee on Government Agencies and all the Legislature’s independent officers; application of the sunshine list; and ministerial power to review and modify the authority’s regulations and bylaws as required.

    In addition, the minister took the time to consult with the industry. Let’s ensure that those recommendations are considered in the legislation that is passed in this Legislature.

    Speaker, the purchase of a home is probably the largest investment the average Ontario family makes, and they expect more from this government.

    The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Further debate?

    Mr. Percy Hatfield: As always, it’s an honour to be called upon in Ontario’s provincial Parliament and to speak on behalf of my constituents in the riding of Windsor–Tecumseh.

    Bill 165 is An Act to regulate home inspectors. I think it’s a sound act. In fact, I had been working on an identical bill; I started last fall. My friend the member for Trinity–Spadina beat me to the punch—I was kidding him about that when he introduced Bill 165. As I’ve said in the House before, a good idea is a good idea no matter where it comes from.

    Back on November 3, Helmut Stautt was sitting in the gallery over here. He was a visitor in the members’ gallery because his grandson Cameron Rodzik was the page captain that day. I was spending some time with the Rodzik family and the Stautts explaining procedure, and Helmut said, “Can I ask you a question?” I said, “Sure.” He said, “Why don’t we regulate home inspectors in Ontario?” I said, “I don’t know. I’ll look into it.”

    So we started making some calls—started calling around. I had my legislative assistant, Angie Dawson, contact some people in the library and so on. I did so because I had heard before from family members and friends who were buying homes and weren’t really satisfied with the advice or the report they got from their home inspector, because things happened at the end of it. It ended up costing them a lot more money.

    1500

    I was always under the impression, as I’m sure a lot of us were in this province, that home inspectors had to be trained, educated, certified, and had to be experienced.

    Mr. Mike Colle: Anybody can be a home inspector. Percy Hatfield: home inspector.

    Mr. Percy Hatfield: There you go.

    After speaking with Helmut and checking it out, I found out that wasn’t the case. As you know, Speaker, there’s a lot of work that goes on behind the scenes when you’re starting to put together a private member’s bill. I mean, we even reached out to Mike Holmes, the TV guy; he’s going to correct all the deficiencies, right?

    Anyway, I’ll be supporting the bill, as will members of the NDP caucus. That’s not to say that the bill can’t be improved.

    The Minister of Government and Consumer Services has said in the past, as the member from Eglinton–Lawrence just said, that anyone with a business card and a flashlight can call themselves a home inspector in this province.

    Hon. Tracy MacCharles: No, I said it, then he said it.

    Mr. Percy Hatfield: Was that you, Minister?

    Hon. Tracy MacCharles: That was me.

    Mr. Percy Hatfield: That was you? I’m sorry.

    Hon. Tracy MacCharles: I started all this, actually.

    Mr. Percy Hatfield: Oh, well, okay.

    What’s needed, Speaker, is a strict and regulated training and education component in the bill. As I understand it, across Canada there are, like, 3,000 people earning an income as home inspectors but no single set of standards for obtaining the professional designation as a home inspector.

    Believe it or not, Speaker, I know that if you’re inclined—and I hope you’re not—but should you choose to do so, you can go online today, fill in some forms and pay a fee, of course, and get a certificate suitable for framing mailed to you within a matter of days. You don’t even have to buy a flashlight or a ladder, and you’ll be a home inspector.

    Mr. Mike Colle: Instant home inspectors. That’s a good job for you, Speaker.

    Mr. Percy Hatfield: Yes, it works, right?

    We should be aiming higher, Speaker. We should be having the highest standards. I know we should make it mandatory for home inspectors to have to take and pass a formal course at a community college. If plumbers and electricians have to spend up to 9,000 hours learning their trade, shouldn’t the men and women who are going to go in and inspect their work, who tell me, “Yes, the home is worth buying; it’s not going to burn down and the toilets are going to flush,” know what they’re looking at? They should have some on-the-job training, as well as classroom training, to know what they’re doing.

    I would hope that whoever earns a living as a driving instructor actually has a driver’s licence, and I hope my doctor has graduated from medical school, so I would hope a home inspector actually has some experience in the field.

    The bill should protect consumers. We know the government is taking us down a path towards energy efficient audits before a home can be sold, so why not enhance the home inspector certification program so that these folks will actually be trained as energy auditors, as well? And the bill should insist that a registry of qualified inspectors be available in every region of the province.

    Speaker, as you know, the ministry of consumer services started this, and I think the minister was the minister back in 2013 when you started this—

    Hon. Tracy MacCharles: Thank you; yes, I was.

    Mr. Mike Colle: It’s a slow process.

    The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): The member for Eglinton–Lawrence, would you come to order?

    Mr. Percy Hatfield: My first choice would like to see this as a government bill. Make no mistake about it, it should be a government bill. For whatever reason, the government has decided not to bring it in as a government bill but to encourage the member for Trinity–Spadina—and thank you for doing this—to proceed with a private member’s bill.

    I hope that the government will see to it that this bill is sent to committee, listen to the witnesses and pass it to bring it back here, and that we get on with it. We shouldn’t allow it to languish. The government should make this bill happen. We should have trained inspectors adhering to an established code of ethics, and I hope they have all kinds of insurance as a prerequisite, in case they mess it up and you and I are left out in the cold.

    I hope the government isn’t making a mistake by not making it a government bill. I hope we’ll get it passed. I want to thank the member from Trinity–Spadina for bringing this forward, because the government chose not to, and I want to thank my constituent Helmet Stautt for bringing it to my attention last fall.

    The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Further debate?

    Ms. Sophie Kiwala: I will be sharing my time today with the members from Beaches–East York, Newmarket–Aurora and Eglinton–Lawrence.

    I couldn’t agree more with what has been said, that purchasing a home is the single biggest investment that people will make in their lifetimes. It is so important that buyers are aware of the condition of their new home, both from a financial investment and safety perspective.

    In my previous life, working in residential and commercial renovation, interior design and rental property ownership, I saw first-hand the importance of a thorough and proper home inspection. Home inspectors have the skills and knowledge to inspect a home in a lot more detail than the average buyer, and even the foresight to anticipate problems in the future. Unfortunately, they are not all created equal.

    I have benefited greatly from home inspectors’ services, both personally in the purchase of my own home and as part of my professional work. My brother, on the other hand, experienced some life-changing difficulties. He purchased a home that had mould in the basement. It was not discovered during the home inspection, and he lived in that home for several years before he realized that he was inflicting permanent damage to his lungs. Since that time, he has endured years of difficulty breathing, numerous lengthy hospital stays, and massive doses of prednisone, which have depleted his bone mass to a fraction of what it once was, to the point where he can break ribs from coughing. His lungs function at 30% of their normal capacity. Surely, there is nothing worse than watching a loved one struggle for every breath.

    While the majority of home inspectors adopt high standards and are registered with one or more home inspector associations, currently anyone—as has already been said—can become a home inspector in Ontario. There are also nine different home inspection associations or certification bodies operating in Ontario, with varying levels of qualifications and requirements.

    If a homebuyer is not diligent in requesting the qualifications and registration of the home inspector they have contracted, they can become inadvertent victims. This should not be about luck; this is about consumer protection. Homebuyers should feel secure that when they contract a home inspector, they can expect minimum and uniform qualifications, standards of practice and provision of services. Bill 165 would create those requirements and standards.

    I’m also very supportive of the accountability measures proposed in Bill 165, which would include mandatory minimum insurance, a code of ethics and a consumer complaint process. The Ministry of Government and Consumer Services is actively working on addressing this issue and has committed to moving forward with the development of a legislative framework to regulate home inspectors.

    Requiring that home inspectors be licensed would ensure consumer protection and a fair marketplace. I want to thank the member for Trinity–Spadina for his work on this important issue and for bringing this bill forward. I’m happy to lend my support and I encourage all members in the House to do the same.

    The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Further debate?

    Mr. Lorne Coe: I’m pleased to add my voice to the discussion.

    First, under no circumstances am I in favour of an unregulated home inspection industry. In my view, when the barriers to entry are too low, it is very difficult for the consumer to feel safe from less-than-desirable practices; and, in fairness, it also makes it awkward for the reputable home inspection operators out there to distinguish themselves from those less reputable.

    Like others before it, this industry has expected regulation for some time, but these business people also have concerns surrounding the appointment of the interim board of directors, whether there will be a transitional period and whether or not registered, professional and law-abiding home inspectors will be grandfathered under the proposed legislation.

    The other key concern with this proposed legislation is that it yet again seems to delegate authority from above. There appears to have been little or no interaction with the Ontario Association of Home Inspectors, the very people who will be directly impacted by the passage of this legislation. Frankly, this fact alone is troubling.

    1510

    Then, Mr. Speaker, there is the lack of oversight by anyone other than the Auditor General of Ontario. For any home inspection licensing authority, it is our party’s recommendation that the Legislature have oversight, that the sunshine list apply and that there be ministerial powers to squash the authority’s regulations and bylaws. Let’s get some true oversight and accountability in the proposed legislation being considered.

    The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Further debate?

    Mr. Gilles Bisson: I want to put on the record my thoughts in regard to such legislation.

    I think at one time or another most of us, in our constituency offices, have had somebody who has come through the door and said, “I bought a house” or “I bought a condo,” and the following thing has happened: There’s no mechanism for them to be made whole for the loss that they incurred due to the condition of the unit that they’ve bought that was actually substandard but passed by a home inspector. I’m sure we’ve seen that in all of our constituencies.

    I recall some of the ones that I’ve had to deal with. One particular individual and his wife, like everybody else, worked hard and put the money away in order to get a down payment to buy their first house. They go out and buy the house. The thing is inspected and they buy it. The mortgage is done. They take possession of the house. And then they start to find out that there are problems with the foundation. As a result of the problem with the foundation, there needed to be repairs done to the house which ended up costing a fair amount of money.

    When they went back—this was within a couple of years of having bought the house but it was over the one year that you have some coverage—they ended up having to spend tens of thousands of dollars to fix the problem. Lo and behold, there’s nobody who’s liable for what should have been caught if there had been a proper home inspection. It turned out, in this case, that the person who did the home inspection didn’t know what they were doing and they allowed something to be unseen in the inspection that wasn’t reported to the buyers. As a result, they were out literally tens of thousands of dollars.

    I have another one—not in my constituency, but a cousin of mine in Sudbury. He buys a house for hundreds of thousands of dollars, lives there for a couple of years, and what had happened, he finds out, is that house was built in two stages. It all looks like one if you look at it now because construction means allow you to do that. The foundation on the second part of the house—guess what?—is not holding up too well. As a result, the house started to subside on the one side and it’s thrown the attached decks out, it’s cracked the walls and it’s cracked the ceilings. So he’s gone through this entire process of trying to recapture the money necessary in order to do the repairs, which are in the hundreds of thousands of dollars.

    I was there last week and I got to see it because they are working on it as we speak. You hear them doing the work that they’ve got to do on changing the footing and the foundation. Oh, my God, you should see what they’re doing there. But here, lo and behold, they have a house that they’ve now got to put an extra couple of hundred thousand dollars into. What is that going to do to their position of equity on that house? Again, why? Because when the house was purchased, it had been inspected, and the inspector missed whatever had to be caught so that they could then make a decision on how to negotiate the price of the house on sale.

    But the other issue is that if we do this right—I would hope this is something that we include in the legislation, should this become law—the home inspector has to be carrying some kind of insurance in order to make sure that the buyer is protected in the event that the inspection misses something, so that there’s a liability issue that is dealt with. Now, there’s obviously all of the other stuff that goes with this: making sure home inspectors are actually home inspectors and are certified and they know what they’re doing. But there should also be some sort of liability insurance, in the same way that most of us have liability insurance.

    I’m an electrician by trade. I worked in construction and maintenance in the mining sector, but if I was in the construction sector, I would have to have liability insurance on the work that I do because—who knows?—there may be a fire; there may be something that’s happened with the workmanship or the people who work for me or myself. If it causes harm to the building or it causes some sort of damage, then you have to be able to cover those losses, and you have to carry liability insurance.

    There should be the same kind of thing, I would hope, for home inspectors. I think this is something that has been brought to the House before, and I congratulate all of those who have raised this issue a number of times. Who knows? Maybe this is like strike one, strike two and, boy, you hit the ball out of the park—you never know.

    We’ve got to hope that this bill actually gets to go forward and deals with making sure that consumers are properly protected when it comes to making what is, in most cases, the biggest purchase in a person’s life or a couple’s life: buying that home. You’re going to need to make sure that you’re able to provide them with adequate protection when it comes to that investment they make in their family home.

    The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Further debate?

    Mr. Chris Ballard: I’m delighted to be able to stand and speak to this bill and support the member for Trinity–Spadina on this very important piece of legislation. As virtually everyone has said as they’ve gotten up to speak, buying a home, for the vast majority of Ontarians, is the single biggest purchase you’re going to make in your lifetime, and it is so important to protect that purchase.

    Many years ago, in a different life, I was the executive director of the Consumers’ Association of Canada here in Ontario. We had about 60,000 members in those days, and it always amazed me that people would spend days and days, and months and months, researching what car they were going to buy, but they would see a house and buy it, and bind themselves to a contract—a mortgage—that would last seemingly hundreds of years into the future. Those were the days when home inspectors started to really come on the scene. The markets were very hot, and it was so important to have someone to give you that second sober advice as to whether or not you should purchase a house. But we began to receive complaints that some of the people weren’t properly trained. Some were great. In fact, the vast majority of home inspection people that I’ve dealt with over the years, including the gentleman that I’ve used when I’ve purchased homes, are absolutely fantastic and worth every penny I’ve put into them, quite frankly. I continue to go back to the chap that I used as we do renovations over the years.

    But there are so many people who don’t understand the value of a home inspection, and if they do, they’re at a loss. They have no idea who they should hire. Just last week, I was talking to an individual who hired a home inspector who told them that the prospective house they were about to purchase was filled with mould in the attic. They hired another inspector who came and said, no, in fact, that’s not mould. And when they looked a little further, the first individual ran a company that did mould remediation. So I suspect that somewhere down the road, they were going to come back and want to clean that mould up.

    I know this type of licensing will go a long way to fixing that type of mischief. As I said earlier, the vast number of home inspectors I’ve worked with and heard about do a really good job, but I think the industry as a whole has matured. It needs to be standardized. If you hire a home inspector in the Soo, they should have the same skill set as a home inspector in my riding of Newmarket–Aurora or one in the riding of Trinity–Spadina. So I look forward to that.

    I want to perhaps correct a bit of information that the member for Whitby–Oshawa put forward. There was an awful lot of consultation, extensive consultation, done by the government with all sorts of groups in pulling this forward. In fact, there are representatives from a number of those organizations in the visitors’ gallery, and judging by the smiles on their faces, I suspect they are in favour of what the member from Trinity–Spadina is moving ahead with today. There was extensive consultation with consumer groups, extensive consultation with real estate agents and lawyers—the whole gamut of people who work with home sales, and they’ll tell you, I know, that this is really good legislation. This is excellent consumer protection legislation.

    1520

    Again, I commend the member for Trinity–Spadina for moving it forward, and I look forward to everyone supporting it.

    The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Further debate?

    Mrs. Julia Munro: I’m pleased to be able to rise today and voice some concerns about this issue and Bill 165.

    I would say that for the vast majority of my constituents in York–Simcoe, their home is probably the largest investment they will make in their lifetime. A home inspector can help prospective owners evaluate the true value of a home and identify any potential issues: everything from the exterior shell to the internal systems of heating, plumbing and wiring.

    Home inspection is currently regulated under a voluntary registration framework, administered by the Ontario Association of Home Inspectors. Unfortunately, it is my understanding that they were not consulted in the drafting of this proposed legislation.

    But I think it’s also an opportunity to have a discussion on the fundamental importance of having that third-party validation. What comes to mind whenever we’re talking about the kind of investment that a home is that we must not forget caveat emptor—buyer beware—and the fact that you have to be proactive in looking at that big investment you’re about to make.

    I have to tell a personal story: Years ago, when my husband and I were looking for a place, we saw one that, on the surface, we thought was absolutely perfect, and we were so excited that this particular piece of property was on the market. My mother said to me, “You know, dear, that’s an older house, and it’s got a complex property around it. You maybe should consult with somebody to find out what should happen. When you consider the cost of the house versus the cost of asking a home inspector to come and have a look at it, it would perhaps be a good investment.” Well, it was such a good investment that we didn’t buy the house. I often think of that as a demonstration of how important it is to have somebody with that kind of expertise.

    The other example I have is as an MPP, where a group of residents came to see me about some egregious things that were happening. They were happening in line with about 14 houses, where the garage and the house were sort of coming apart; they were separating. Of course, it meant pools of water collecting, it meant leakage into the basement—some serious concerns that they had. I tell this story because of the fact that it eventually drew in the local building inspector and other experts and so forth. This is a cautionary tale to tell about this particular example: that people need to understand that they have to drive this process, and that we can’t have building inspectors and home inspections and the two don’t meet, or there’s too much red tape or it’s too narrowly defined what is actually the purview of a town employee—the building inspector—and the home inspection person.

    I think this is well-intentioned, but we need to have further debate.

    The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Further debate?

    Mr. John Vanthof: I’d just like to add my voice to this debate. I fully support this bill because buying a home is one of the biggest risks you take in your life, and to mitigate risk you should be able to surround yourself with people who can help you. A home inspector is one of those people; and most people naturally think that a home inspector is someone who is fully qualified, fully regulated. We hear a lot about how people don’t like red tape, but one place you want red tape is that you want a qualified home inspector. So I fully support this bill. Thank you for the opportunity to speak towards it.

    The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Further debate?

    Mr. Arthur Potts: I’m delighted to be able to rise in support of the member from Trinity–Spadina’s bill. I appreciate very much his articulation of the reasons why this bill is necessary, and I’m delighted to hear the support that we’re getting from the other side of the House, who also recognize how important this is.

    I think I mentioned the other day that I’ve just moved into my new house in the Beach. I’m no longer represented by the member from Toronto–Danforth; I’ve moved into the Beach. I didn’t have the opportunity to use a home inspector when I bought this property because the market was so hot. They put it on the market on a Friday. We saw it on Friday, saw it again on Saturday morning and bought it Saturday afternoon in what’s known as a bully bid, because they weren’t going to take offers until Tuesday. If I had to wait around to get a building inspector to take a look at it and reassure myself that it was worth the money, I would never have got it. So we just jumped right in.

    But my secret was that my real estate agent used to be a builder. My real estate agent, Roger Kilgour, is also known as Guy. Guy took me through the house—the little nooks and crannies—and did a check from a builder’s perspective. Guy is really knowledgeable about this, and using Guy’s advice, I go forward and we buy the house. In fact, we paid a little bit more than the asking price. I needn’t go into the details; it seems unnecessary.

    The very first house I bought, I bought with the assistance of a very qualified home inspector. He was my uncle, Howard Rober—my middle name comes from him—my mother’s brother. His wife, Auntie Mary Lou, is the most incredible apple pie cook imaginable.

    Ms. Cheri DiNovo: Arthur, where do you live?

    Mr. Arthur Potts: In the Beach.

    So when I bought this new house, I’m anticipating, now that we’re into the new house—she always brings by some apple pie. I’m hoping she will read this Hansard in due course and remember that’s one of her obligations.

    But my uncle was a trained house inspector and went on to become a real estate agent, and the same kind of relationship: Because he understood the bones of a house, he was able to go in with a buyer and bring that added expertise.

    The member from York–Simcoe did raise the Latin “caveat emptor.” I was hoping I’d be the first one to spring a little Latin on the House, and I’m delighted that she got in there first. “Buyer beware” is what it means, short and simple. But it also means that the buyer alone is responsible for checking the quality and suitability of the goods before a purchase is made. That’s what a home inspector does for you, because you can’t be an expert in all things.

    So the buyer, exercising caveat emptor, goes and retains the professional services of someone in order to satisfy himself that that’s in fact the right thing to do. And I agree with the member from Timiskaming–Cochrane that there have to be penalties and insurances attached for errors and omissions. That’s an incredibly important part of this bill, and I think that the member from Trinity–Spadina has it absolutely right in the way he has framed the bill.

    I’m also delighted that this is going to a delegated administrative authority that is not going to cost the taxpayer of Ontario a cent, except for maybe the early minor cost of the set-up, but it’ll be paid for and administered on the basis of the fees they collect from the home inspectors, who could easily absorb this as part of the work they do.

    I would also like to say that I agree with the member for Whitby–Oshawa that there has to be greater oversight of delegated administrative authorities. I would be quite open—I hope the member will be—maybe to having that they are part of the sunshine list, because I think that the public, as part of its protection, should know how much we’re paying senior administrators in all of our delegated authorities, including the Electrical Safety Authority, because that is where money hits the road: What are we paying those executives to protect the public? Thank you very much, Speaker. Good bill.

    The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Further debate?

    Ms. Lisa M. Thompson: I, too, am pleased to stand today and lend my voice to the debate on Bill 165, An Act to regulate home inspectors. For Ontarians, as has been alluded to, purchasing a home is an investment in their future and their family, and probably the greatest spend they’ll ever make. It affects everything, in terms of quality of life to the taxes they pay to where their children will go to school. As part of this process, homebuyers will often look to home inspectors to help them assess the true value of a property or determine if there are any issues that need to be addressed, all to ensure that they’re getting the most bang for their buck.

    I’m pleased it to be able to say, on behalf of the PC Party of Ontario, that we’re looking to support this particular bill, but we want to see specific amendments as well.

    1530

    In my brief time I want to touch on two things: first, a disturbing trend that we’re seeing from this government over and over again, and that is the continued lack of consultation that this Liberal government is providing to our stakeholders from every industry. The other disturbing trend is the creation of yet another unaccountable authority.

    A week ago in this very House, when debating Bill 151, I spoke about the worry I heard from stakeholders of this new authority that’s being created through that particular bill enactment. Here we are again, creating yet another authority that, more times than not, this government totally forgets to provide parameters for in terms of performance measures and accountability. We have to ensure that we get better. In doing so, we’re going to have some very explicit amendments based on input that we’ve received from stakeholders.

    I just have a few seconds left, actually; time flies by. One thing that I’m very interested in: My friend Ken from Hesson, Ontario, in the riding of Perth-Wellington, went to school, did his homework and made the investment in getting proper training to be a home inspector. We need to ensure that we carry through that credibility and that consistency of offering to make sure that when somebody gets a home inspector, they all are working towards the same standard. We’re going to be looking into the amendments with that specific regard.

    The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): I now return to the member for Trinity–Spadina. You have two minutes for a reply.

    Mr. Han Dong: Thank you very much, Speaker. I would like to thank the members who have spoken to my bill, including the members from Stormont–Dundas–South Glengarry, Windsor–Tecumseh, Kingston and the Islands, Whitby–Oshawa, Timmins–James Bay, Newmarket–Aurora, York–Simcoe, Timiskaming–Cochrane, Beaches–East York and Huron–Bruce. I thank you very much for your comments on Bill 165.

    I also want to take this opportunity to recognize the current Minister of Children and Youth Services, who had this portfolio in her previous term. I agree with the member from Windsor–Tecumseh that she has done an excellent job on this file. She has consulted widely with experts, individuals and professionals in this field.

    I also recognize the Minister of Government and Consumer Services for his support on this bill, as well as his tireless work on consumer protection. I look forward to working with him on strengthening the home inspector industry.

    I noticed that members in this House brought up concerns on whether this is being consulted widely. I can assure them that I did the best I could to cast a wide net for opinions, not just to constituents but as well to experts in the industry. Some of those long-time advocates are here with us in the gallery.

    I noted that the support is there, but there was some caution to make sure that the details will be looked after. I look forward to discussions during the committee process.

    The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): We will take the vote on this item at the end of private members’ public business.




    PETITION

    Mrs. Kathryn McGarry: I have a petition addressed to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario.

    “Whereas the home inspector industry remains largely unregulated; and

    “Whereas homeowners are increasingly reliant on home inspectors to make an educated home purchase; and

    “Whereas the unregulated industry poses a risk to consumers;

    “We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

    “To protect consumers by regulating the home inspection industry and licensing home inspectors.”

    I agree with the petition, affix my signature and give it to Bianca to take to the table.

    Last edited by Raymond Wand; 03-04-2016 at 04:33 AM.

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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    As always, thank you Raymond.

    Consumer protection is easy.
    Start by the Ontario government, & the minsters of the day, marketing the facts about how to hire a home inspector absent of any associations.


    Start by having the first contact industry provide marketing valuable literature.
    Start by separating anything that can be perceived as conflicts of interest with all the industries involved in the sale transaction.

    Stereo typical adages where used as usual.
    Protect the consumer, a home is likely the largest investment, regulations.
    All strategical marketing to the government of Ontario.

    Love to see some real statistics.
    How many legitimate home inspection claims exist in Ontario?

    Another grab of power and fame by home inspectors not doing enough home inspections I figer.

    Last edited by ROBERT YOUNG; 03-04-2016 at 08:12 AM.
    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
    Our Motto; Putting information where you need it most, "In your hands.”

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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    Robert

    The sad reality is, (and you may not like what I am saying), but as long as you have a couple of associations allowed to continually flaunt rules, such as no discipline process, no internal oversight, anything goes, no voting rights, free memberships, discrimination, no right to appeal, open so called kangaroo courts, no checks and balances, conflicts, easily obtainable titles (free in some cases), and other falsities, this is what transpires as a result. A few bad apples are about to have their rug pulled out from under them, and no more hiding behind the ole boys club, we will do as we please mantra. That is where inspectors and the consumer are being misled. Its a pity so many choose marketing bull over that of professionalism.

    Its just too easy to take an online course, and as pointed out in the legislature get a certificate saying you are a home inspector, mould inspector, septic inspector so forth and so on.

    The legislature has picked up on this and now the day of reckoning is approaching. And its about time. We, you, and I all know the games that have been played and atrocious conduct that has been permitted to go on unabated by so called leaders.

    The buck stops with the government. So regardless what you, me and others have to say on the matter the buck has stopped at the governments desk. The devil will be in the details when the committee hears matters before third reading. The long and the short there will be no more crap allowed to continue because the BOD of the DAA will have accountability to the government and thats a great thing!

    later,


  35. #35
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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    Robert

    The sad reality is, (and you may not like what I am saying), but as long as you have a couple of associations allowed to continually flaunt rules, such as no discipline process, no internal oversight, anything goes, no voting rights, free memberships, discrimination, no right to appeal, open so called kangaroo courts, no checks and balances, conflicts, easily obtainable titles (free in some cases), and other falsities, this is what transpires as a result. A few bad apples are about to have their rug pulled out from under them, and no more hiding behind the ole boys club, we will do as we please mantra. That is where inspectors and the consumer are being misled. Its a pity so many choose marketing bull over that of professionalism.

    Its just too easy to take an online course, and as pointed out in the legislature get a certificate saying you are a home inspector, mould inspector, septic inspector so forth and so on.

    The legislature has picked up on this and now the day of reckoning is approaching. And its about time. We, you, and I all know the games that have been played and atrocious conduct that has been permitted to go on unabated by so called leaders.

    The buck stops with the government. So regardless what you, me and others have to say on the matter the buck has stopped at the governments desk. The devil will be in the details when the committee hears matters before third reading. The long and the short there will be no more crap allowed to continue because the BOD of the DAA will have accountability to the government and thats a great thing!

    later,
    Ray, on line courses are given by universities.
    You have a bee in your bonnet about one.
    Easy with the slogging mud to see if it sticks.
    Seen news made by RHI's dropping the ball Raymond and even CD have on-line classes.
    Vern Michinson and the CCHI is another way to proctor tests.
    Easy with the on-line rim shots.

    I understand everyone's concerns.
    They are my concerns as well but to a point.

    We have no right to say certain association, full transparency and kangaroo courts.
    I am 60 years old, lived in the regulated trades most of my life and have seen despicable acts by the regulated with nothing happening. That is fact not fiction.
    The last federal government is guilty of all the above!

    To bad, so sad, but consumers have to account for their actions, not mine or of my competitors.
    Don't ask and you don't receive, unless freely offered, I always do.
    You can not regulate how an inspector will act Raymond.
    You can only lead them to water.

    Governments are famous for creating over layering regulations.
    Remember, it all starts with the number (1)

    Seems like businesses and individuals do not have enough money to full-fill the astute's desires to care and protect us from ourselves Raymond.

    I am quite certain Government's on all levels know much more than I and take much better care of my person and business than I can.
    To that there is no denying.
    fox and hens.JPG

    You have to draw a line somewhere with regulations and consumers must accept their responsibility.
    Governments avoided vital information allowing them free will and choice!!!
    I am sure the consumer is fully aware of what they are doing and if not, then they required help they did not want to pay for. Bottom line.

    How much do you charge seems to be the first words out of their mouths.

    There are many opportunities for home buyers to learn about how to hire a home inspector YET I see not one of all the involved even started a campaign to help the home buyer educate about how to select a home inspector until they saw themselves with helping overture regulations. Seems I know several of them personally.
    Strikes me as odd, what about you?

    Last edited by ROBERT YOUNG; 03-04-2016 at 10:45 AM.
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    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    True associations proctor their exams, ditto online courses offered through colleges in Ontario.
    Plus, there is only one association albeit American that has had third party (independent) outside review of its credentialing and that association is ASHI. No other association can claim that, and I know for a fact ASHI conducts proctored tests. Ditto OAHI although it has not been certified by neutral third party.

    The fact remains as pointed out by MPPs and associated studies leading upto the licencing bill - its just to easy to go online and obtain a certificate. Whose to blame for that? Not me, not the government, not the public but the members who make up the so called association ergo - a marketing association by any other name is not a professional association.


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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    Coincedence? I guess the MPP forget to disclose that the constituent had a professional reason to ask the MPP Mr. Hatfield why home inspectors are not licenced. Influence, conflict? Hmmm...

    His constituent is a RE Broker! Spelling of Mr. Staudt is misspelled in the Hansard minutes!

    Royal LePage Binder Real Estate Communities – Windsor, Tecumseh, Kingsville, Belle River, Amherstburg, Leamington, Essex, LaSalle, Tilbury, Harrow, Wheatley, Lakeshore

    HELMUT STAUDT
    Broker Royal LePage
    Royal LePage Binder Real Estate - Tecumseh
    13158 TECUMSEH ROAD E.
    TECUMSEH,ON
    N8N 3T6

    Percy Hatfield MPP Windsor-Tecumseh


    From the Hansard report

    Mr. Percy Hatfield

    Back on November 3, Helmut Stautt was sitting in the gallery over here. He was a visitor in the members’ gallery because his grandson Cameron Rodzik was the page captain that day. I was spending some time with the Rodzik family and the Stautts explaining procedure, and Helmut said, “Can I ask you a question?” I said, “Sure.” He said, “Why don’t we regulate home inspectors in Ontario?” I said, “I don’t know. I’ll look into it.”

    Mr. Percy Hatfield

    I hope the government isn’t making a mistake by not making it a government bill. I hope we’ll get it passed. I want to thank the member from Trinity–Spadina for bringing this forward, because the government chose not to, and I want to thank my constituent Helmet Stautt for bringing it to my attention last fall.


    Mr. Stuadt website -
    https://www.royallepagebinder.com/se...ome-inspectors

    Last edited by Raymond Wand; 03-04-2016 at 10:16 AM.

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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    Coincedence? I guess the MPP forget to disclose that the constituent had a professional reason to ask the MPP Mr. Hatfield why home inspectors are not licenced. Influence, conflict? Hmmm...

    His constituent is a RE Broker! Spelling of Mr. Staudt is misspelled in the Hansard minutes!

    Royal LePage Binder Real Estate Communities – Windsor, Tecumseh, Kingsville, Belle River, Amherstburg, Leamington, Essex, LaSalle, Tilbury, Harrow, Wheatley, Lakeshore

    HELMUT STAUDT
    Broker Royal LePage
    Royal LePage Binder Real Estate - Tecumseh
    13158 TECUMSEH ROAD E.
    TECUMSEH,ON
    N8N 3T6

    Percy Hatfield MPP Windsor-Tecumseh


    From the Hansard report




    Mr. Stuadt website -
    https://www.royallepagebinder.com/se...ome-inspectors
    Good work....Bravo Raymond!


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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    Coincedence? I guess the MPP forget to disclose that the constituent had a professional reason to ask the MPP Mr. Hatfield why home inspectors are not licenced. Influence, conflict? Hmmm...

    His constituent is a RE Broker! Spelling of Mr. Staudt is misspelled in the Hansard minutes!

    Royal LePage Binder Real Estate Communities – Windsor, Tecumseh, Kingsville, Belle River, Amherstburg, Leamington, Essex, LaSalle, Tilbury, Harrow, Wheatley, Lakeshore

    HELMUT STAUDT
    Broker Royal LePage
    Royal LePage Binder Real Estate - Tecumseh
    13158 TECUMSEH ROAD E.
    TECUMSEH,ON
    N8N 3T6

    Percy Hatfield MPP Windsor-Tecumseh


    From the Hansard report




    Mr. Stuadt website -
    https://www.royallepagebinder.com/se...ome-inspectors
    I removed 2 posts. I should be focused on all the hard work so many contributed instead of being cynical. Please excuse me everyone.

    Unlike B.C. or Alberta, that to me rushed in licensing, or Quebec's unrepresented short-sightedness to exclude and discuss with all involved and to which licencing feel short, thank God, I applaud the province of Ontario and all the stakeholders for taking a substantial amount of time to consult with population, experts and stakeholders.
    Bravo! Job well done.

    Raymond, although you may have uncovered questionable behaviour, I am certain it effects both our industries. We all have input and wish to be seen as professionals able to work with professionals in the same related industry.

    For one thing I am certain after living 60+ years on this earth. Speculation, animosity and bias behaviour is no way to start a transparent licensing process.
    Too bad, so sad things like this happen.
    As businesses and professionals, we must work for the good of one common goal,
    Professionalism aligned to Consumer protection.

    Lets us hope Ontario makes the right decision. From what I hear Quebec will be the next shoe to drop.

    Last edited by ROBERT YOUNG; 03-05-2016 at 08:06 AM.
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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    It should have been fully disclosed because the Realtor/Broker grandson was a Page Captain, of which the MPP had familiarity with the family..

    Its odd and disheartening from my POV that a Realtor asks his MPP why home inspectors are not licenced. Fast forward ...

    Even stranger is this same Broker who in my opinion should know better has only two inspectors listed on the Realtors website. If in fact (I don't know) but I am curious to know whether those two listed inspectors are paying for the privilege of being listed. If they are paying for the listing then that flies in the face of Nachi COE. -
    6. (c) offer or provide any disclosed or undisclosed financial compensation directly or indirectly to any real estate agent, real estate broker, or real estate company for referrals or for inclusion on lists of preferred and/or affiliated inspectors or inspection companies.
    Reco has made it clear that sales agents should at very least give the client three names. And I think that policy would also include website listings.

    My investigation will continue. After all that's why I am a home inspector I like to investigate and be inquisitive...


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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    True Raymond, but I am sure all is apparent to those that really care about consumer protection and the substance of Bill 165.

    I, as well as others I suspect, looked at the inspectors and gleamed their mock inspection reports.
    Thank you for your investigative work as always.

    We all know the finger pointing is locked on home inspectors as others try to avoid responsibility. I voiced my concerns in a water down commission. Condos's are still poorly built yet we have to inspect them and be liable?


    It should be noted Mr. Joe Ferry, home inspector advocate has quashed more than 99.00 percent of the 900 claims he defended for home inspectors that use his service. If Bill 165 is to have any bearing at all, he should be allowed to addresses the assembly and invited to speak as Mike Holmes was prior to the shoe falling in Ontario.
    Just compare the substance that the two have to offer. It would be a real eye opener for all involved.
    PS: I think Mike would be busy that day upon the advice of someone knowledgeable.

    Last edited by ROBERT YOUNG; 03-06-2016 at 06:30 AM.
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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario


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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    Licensing legislation questions to any of the involved including Claude and Raymond.
    I surmise I know Claude's answer but as to Ray's, I would be eager to listen.

    Seeing that insurance is a underlying theme, was grandfathering any insured inspectors ever motioned by anyone?

    Did any one explain how the building and trades system works to ministers vocalizing trades as a backdrop to their licensing plan?
    Did anyone ever mention to the Ontario MPP's that brought up trades persons, Mike Holmes did not have a legitimate general contractors license and knew nothing about home inspections or standards of practice.
    I guess media attention $$ have a way overlooking fact.
    How bout how Ontario grandfathered trades workers as unions and licensing began to evolve.

    Although I know this is provincial licensing, was Quebec grandfathering REA as Real Estate brokers in 2013 brought up?
    Just wondering if all sides of the important issues were thoroughly DEBATED.
    There were two sides looked at weren't there? Pro's and Con's.

    For one thing I am certain, without mindful discussion, that involves debates by opposing experts, everyone is agreeing with everyone agreeing as a means to an end that will continually evolve without substance. In essence, I guess everyone agrees to agree without historical relevance and factual content.

    SUBSTANCE: Thesubjectmatterofthought,discourse,study,etc.

    Yes, licensing home inspector to hold all the liability as the (vendors) walks away Scot free. Good old lobbing.

    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    Quote Originally Posted by ROBERT YOUNG View Post
    Licensing legislation questions to any of the involved including Claude and Raymond.
    I surmise I know Claude's answer but as to Ray's, I would be eager to listen.

    Seeing that insurance is a underlying theme, was grandfathering any insured inspectors ever motioned by anyone?

    Did any one explain how the building and trades system works to ministers vocalizing trades as a backdrop to their licensing plan?
    Did anyone ever mention to the Ontario MPP's that brought up trades persons, Mike Holmes did not have a legitimate general contractors license and knew nothing about home inspections or standards of practice.
    I guess media attention $$ have a way overlooking fact.
    How bout how Ontario grandfathered trades workers as unions and licensing began to evolve.

    Although I know this is provincial licensing, was Quebec grandfathering REA as Real Estate brokers in 2013 brought up?
    Just wondering if all sides of the important issues were thoroughly DEBATED.
    There were two sides looked at weren't there? Pro's and Con's.

    For one thing I am certain, without mindful discussion, that involves debates by opposing experts, everyone is agreeing with everyone agreeing as a means to an end that will continually evolve without substance. In essence, I guess everyone agrees to agree without historical relevance and factual content.

    SUBSTANCE: Thesubjectmatterofthought,discourse,study,etc.

    Yes, licensing home inspector to hold all the liability as the (vendors) walks away Scot free. Good old lobbing.
    Robert - all good questions, but most of that has already been discussed at the Ontario MCS panel level. One must assume that the report and research conducted involved a wide spectrum of what's going on in the home inspection sector. I know that I brought up the issue of what was happening in other provinces.

    BOTTOM LINE: The DAA will as noted in both the panel report as well as proposed licensing bill, be empowered to administer the licensing program. One must also assume that means follow the guidelines established in the licensing plan "regulation". The Bill provides the general framework, but it does not get into the detail of exacting certification for attaining a license to practice.

    It is my general understanding that the "specific" licensing requirements (knowledge, skills and experience levels) are still part of the discussions. So perhaps most of your questions would be addressed either at the upcoming "committee" level, or perhaps by recalling the "original MCS panel" to hammer out those details. Perhaps a blend of both.

    As a member of the "Ontario MCS panel" many of these topics were discussed, however, not every minute detail can be completed without providing the basic framework for the panel report that was publicly released. Remember the panel itself was not just comprised of home inspectors but represented a good cross section of those impacted in the home inspection process - lawyer, realtor, code, consumer, insurers, association member and non member, education, etc.

    On the issue of insurance, I also raised the issue of "bonding" such as performance bonds rather than E&O insurance. In my past design-build life experience performance bonding was typically less costly.

    ANOTHER BOTTOM LINE: I have found again in my experience that too many consumers are not well informed about the limitations of a home inspection, and yet believe that if any thing goes wrong, that the home inspector becomes the go to person to be responsible for correcting the wrong. Basically, even from a friend - I would hold the inspector responsible for anything that's wrong in the house, because he/she has insurance.


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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    Quote Originally Posted by Claude Lawrenson View Post
    Robert - all good questions, but most of that has already been discussed at the Ontario MCS panel level. One must assume that the report and research conducted involved a wide spectrum of what's going on in the home inspection sector. I know that I brought up the issue of what was happening in other provinces.

    BOTTOM LINE: The DAA will as noted in both the panel report as well as proposed licensing bill, be empowered to administer the licensing program. One must also assume that means follow the guidelines established in the licensing plan "regulation". The Bill provides the general framework, but it does not get into the detail of exacting certification for attaining a license to practice.

    It is my general understanding that the "specific" licensing requirements (knowledge, skills and experience levels) are still part of the discussions. So perhaps most of your questions would be addressed either at the upcoming "committee" level, or perhaps by recalling the "original MCS panel" to hammer out those details. Perhaps a blend of both.

    As a member of the "Ontario MCS panel" many of these topics were discussed, however, not every minute detail can be completed without providing the basic framework for the panel report that was publicly released. Remember the panel itself was not just comprised of home inspectors but represented a good cross section of those impacted in the home inspection process - lawyer, realtor, code, consumer, insurers, association member and non member, education, etc.

    On the issue of insurance, I also raised the issue of "bonding" such as performance bonds rather than E&O insurance. In my past design-build life experience performance bonding was typically less costly.

    ANOTHER BOTTOM LINE: I have found again in my experience that too many consumers are not well informed about the limitations of a home inspection, and yet believe that if any thing goes wrong, that the home inspector becomes the go to person to be responsible for correcting the wrong. Basically, even from a friend - I would hold the inspector responsible for anything that's wrong in the house, because he/she has insurance.
    Thank you Claude.
    I will try to get myself more involved with a committee. I am certain my voice would be helpful during debates.

    As to your last statement, "I have found again in my experience that too many consumers are not well informed about the limitations of a home inspection"
    From what I have read on message boards, and through emails sent to me through Joe Ferry's Claims intercept, I fully concur.

    Claude, I am certain you can blame that on the astute professionals that charge exorbitant rates to learn what they lack as they defend merit-less claims trying to rewrite law.

    Joe Ferry Quashes them.
    All food for through during licensing discussions don't you think?

    Who's to blame if you are looking for blame, to which this witch hunt is all about.
    Too bad.
    So sad.

    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
    Our Motto; Putting information where you need it most, "In your hands.”

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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    Quote Originally Posted by Claude Lawrenson View Post
    On the issue of insurance, I also raised the issue of "bonding" such as performance bonds rather than E&O insurance. In my past design-build life experience performance bonding was typically less costly.
    This is truly a cottage industry as I see it.
    Insurance is part of doing business.

    Home inspections are part of a provincial services industry, unless I am mistaken.
    From your provinces website: "In Ontario, you need to be certified to work in certain trades."
    Remember as well, not all trades persons are licensed on the job.
    Many are certified or regulated workers building what we inspect.

    As to your bond idea.
    Bonds are used as a lever to raise capital.
    Why would you have to raise capital if you are insured, unless you are over reaching for something you should think twice about.
    Can I get a bond instead of insurance for my car and boat?
    I think not.

    I am of the opinion, Provincial Industry Service Regulations can put in-place everything required within the home inspection services industry; to insure home inspection businesses fairly market, label and insure certified home inspections.

    KISS remember?

    Last edited by ROBERT YOUNG; 03-10-2016 at 06:40 AM. Reason: To long. Not the best jocularity. Sorry colleagues.
    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    I'm not here to debate the merits of bonds or the short sightedness of licensing. However for clarification about your belief of bonds - don't confuse what is a common requirement within the construction industry.

    "A performance bond, also known as a contract bond, is a surety bond issued by an insurance company or a bank to guarantee satisfactory completion of a project by a contractor. A job requiring a payment and performance bond will usually require a bid bond, to bid the job."

    Like insurance, it's the cost of doing business. Unlike E&O insurance the amount of a performance bond cost is small in comparison to E&O. As such, I much prefer a bond type system.

    The other point you raise is regarding certification. Let's face it not all certification is equal, let alone the fact or the amount of rigor to attain it is also open to question. Earning by verifiable evidence versus granting a certificate based on a self-declaration form are two different things. That is hopefully where a DAA will potentially have the ability to "cull the herd". As an example I get a kick out of inspectors claiming they are C&D certified just by completing their education courses. I really don't believe that C&D certify home inspectors, but rather offer training for home inspection education - to home inspectors.

    You also seem to discount there are trades people that may not be "officially" trained in their field. How many home builders use "unlicensed" practitioners to build homes throughout most all of this country. Certainly some areas require licensed trades such as electricians, plumbers, hvac technicians to name just a few. As another example are all mason licensed or certified. Of course you already note - and how about how many builders, contractors, renovators, sub contractors such as roofers, etc?

    With a DAA the opportunity to have foxes watching the hen house would be significantly reduced. All associations of home inspectors have a vested interest in maintaining their members, offering training and education and promoting their brand of favored education to become certified. A knowledgeable DAA would set the licensing bar, and hopefully maintain it regardless of credential or association affiliation.

    Robert - no one doubts the value of your input and experience, however and forgive me, you may not always be best at expressing it based on your first language, but otherwise I believe most of us get your point when you offer it in english. Certainly it's a heck of a lot better by miles than my french even though I have a large french Canadian background that dates back into the 1700's.


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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    CSA Group Publishes the First National Standard on Home Inspections
    TORONTO, March 10, 2016

    http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases...571634381.html


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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    CSA Group Publishes the First National Standard on Home Inspections
    TORONTO, March 10, 2016

    http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases...571634381.html
    Thank you Ray.

    Take note of the last paragraph. (About CSA Group
    CSA Group is an independent, not-for-profit membership association dedicated to safety, social good and sustainability.)
    CSA and Influence peddling & related;
    Selling influence over safety law in exchange for money is illegal.

    CSA sells influence by weighting voting.
    The more one pays, the more one's influence gets.
    Committee votes are currently priced at $2,999 for 2 votes, $4,000 for 4 votes and $6,000 for 8 votes.

    CSA, this not for profit entity, also sells direct ad "quick" access to civil servants whom draft legislation though the use of "a special unlisted telephone number.

    Now we have a CSA National Home Inspection Standard that may be perceived as weighted, or a home inspection standard of practice without true at arms length merit.

    Questions you might ask.
    Will this be national standard be for sale to a government/s, or persons?
    How much money, if any, was redirected back to the CSA to form this study. If I am mistaken, the provinces of Alberta and British Columbia invested money to have a study conducted. Please excuse me if I am wrong.
    All food for thought.

    As always thank you for the update Raymond.

    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    It is my understanding that Ontario also provided financial support to the CSA Home Inspection Standard.

    So what does BC, Alberta and soon to be Ontario ALL have in common to ALL home inspectors?

    How many home inspectors are really willing to buy it? Don't we already have "standards" that are free to the association members?

    Only time will tell, based on mandatory requirements that an inspector must use it.


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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    Perhaps CSA will 'licence' the new improved SOP to inspectors for a yearly fee. Otherwise providing copies hard copy or web based on inspector websites will be copyright infringement.

    If the governments provide partial funding for CSA it is yet another example of government largess, particularly Ontario!


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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    Perhaps CSA will 'licence' the new improved SOP to inspectors for a yearly fee. Otherwise providing copies hard copy or web based on inspector websites will be copyright infringement.

    If the governments provide partial funding for CSA it is yet another example of government largess, particularly Ontario!
    Raymond I agree but, from how I read this, the tax payers of British Columbia, Alberta and Ontario flipped the bill, ops, funded a not pro profit agency to help boaster, 1: CSA profile and bottom line. 2: Rush though a "FEDERALLY PROPOSED STANDARD." 3: Blatantly allow tax payers money to be squandered. 4: Create a prescribed means to lobby the government.

    1: Were the tax paying citizens made aware of ALL the facts?
    2: Were they informed that CSA appears from the outside to be not for profit but the numbers say quite the contrary.
    3: Not all those tax payers will ever own homes.
    4: This is proposed as a Federal National Standard and should have passed that test first and for most.

    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    Of note is the new improved home inspector licencing legislation in B.C.. What stands out is the fact that CSA standards are not even mentioned. Well so much for B.C. considering CSA A770.

    Are you listening Kathleen? Are you listening Mr. Dong, et al in the Ontario government?


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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    Of note is the new improved home inspector licencing legislation in B.C.. What stands out is the fact that CSA standards are not even mentioned. Well so much for B.C. considering CSA A770.

    Are you listening Kathleen? Are you listening Mr. Dong, et al in the Ontario government?
    Not exactly correct Ray.
    The new standard is under consideration.
    It will probably be adopted.
    What stands out is the prohibiting a limits of
    liability clauses in inspection contracts.


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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    Thanks Steve.


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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    Of note is the new improved home inspector licencing legislation in B.C.. What stands out is the fact that CSA standards are not even mentioned. Well so much for B.C. considering CSA A770.

    Are you listening Kathleen? Are you listening Mr. Dong, et al in the Ontario government?
    In BC I would not rule out serious consideration of the CSA H.I. Standard. The parties in BC have had over two years to find common ground on one standard SOP. Unfortunately to date, no common standard is in order, in my opinion based largely on "association" politics.

    On the CSA copyright issue, I also have concerns about a "fee" paid to CSA for a "standard" which is largely a restatement of words and phrases that already exist in the lexicon of most every home inspection association standards.

    How can one legally copyright what would be largely already in the "public" domain for virtually decades?


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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    Claude

    Ask P.S. Knight.

    On a side note ... As for standards, counting or commenting on fence posts is anal retentive to say the least.

    I inspect many farm properties, and never ever has anyone asked me about the state of their fence line. Next CSA may revise that standard to, one must inspect electric fences by peeing on the wire.


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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    Quote Originally Posted by Claude Lawrenson View Post
    In BC I would not rule out serious consideration of the CSA H.I. Standard. The parties in BC have had over two years to find common ground on one standard SOP. Unfortunately to date, no common standard is in order, in my opinion based largely on "association" politics.

    On the CSA copyright issue, I also have concerns about a "fee" paid to CSA for a "standard" which is largely a restatement of words and phrases that already exist in the lexicon of most every home inspection association standards.

    How can one legally copyright what would be largely already in the "public" domain for virtually decades?
    I asked CSA on the weekend on their discussion board
    as part of the announcement of the new standard what they decided
    they were going to do about copyright issues. I got no response.

    The copies they send out has the purchaser's name on the bottom
    of each page. How quaint.
    Curiously, they did not prevent copying of the document.
    Cut and paste is allowed.


  59. #59
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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    I posted the following at

    https://community.csagroup.org/commu...ished-csa-a770

    I find it rather amusing that the current standards (SOP) are very much the same since they are all derived from the American Association of Home Inspectors (ASHI), and have withstood court review both in Canada and the USA. The A770 standards will only be truly recognized when a disgruntled client files suit in the courts and alleges negligent misrepresentation and in defence the defendants legal team uses A770 to aid them in defence . After all, the courts when determining the importance of professional standards in respect of the legal standard a court considers that a standard practice falls below the legal standard only if the standard practice fails to adopt obvious and reasonable precautions readily apparent to the court. Otherwise, a court will show deference to the standard practice. To my knowledge no court has found the current SOPs have failed to adopt reasonable precautions.

    Time will tell. I think its folly to be suggesting as Mr. Clarke states that somehow a new unified standard will be appetizing to the public and other stake holders. Time will tell. This brings me back full circle and as and as Mr. Panting suggests how are clients going to be able to see and relate to the standards if they are copyrighted by CSA and can be only obtained by purchase?

    Btw what are the inconsistencies in standards that I keep reading about in news releases?
    - - - Updated - - -

    » CSA Group Publishes the First National Standard on Home Inspections | CSA Group Publishes the First National Standard on Home Inspections | CSA Group

    News Releases
    CSA Group Publishes the First National Standard on Home Inspections

    Toronto – March 10, 2016 – CSA Group, a leading global provider of standards development and testing and certification services, announces the publication of the first Canadian standard on home inspections. The voluntary standard will help home buyers to compare inspection services, and it will establish clear requirements for the inspection of homes.

    Until now there has been no accredited standard for home inspections and inspectors do not all follow one particular guideline. As a result, inspections can vary greatly from one inspector to another and across Canada. With the average price of housing in Canada consistently increasing, there is a growing need for consumer protection.

    “Purchasing a home is a big and sometimes life-changing decision. This standard will offer buyers peace of mind at an often stressful time, giving them the reassurance of knowing they can select a home inspector who is following a consistent set of rules,” said Magali Depras, President, Standards, CSA Group. “This will help consumers better understand what to expect from a home inspection, including the condition of the home and whether there are any health and safety issues, and it will give inspectors a clearly defined set of requirements to follow – and to stand behind should any disputes arise.”

    CSA A770-16 Home Inspection was developed to help establish specific guidance for inspection through a single recognized standard. Inconsistency in the approach to inspections can create a risk for both consumers and home inspectors, and the lack of clear expectations for what a home inspection entails may cause increased liability for both parties. The CSA Group technical committee, comprised of a balanced representation of stakeholders including real estate agents, home inspectors, consumer protection groups, governments and others, agreed that a national standard would help provide clarity.

    A home inspection is intended to be a non-invasive evaluation of the condition and performance of systems and components of a dwelling, and is often carried out when buying or selling a home. It is primarily used to identify and report any items that may be faulty, and the focus is on significant issues that are readily visible to the inspector as opposed to minor building deficiencies.

    The new standard offers benefits to both consumers and home inspectors. While the standard is not mandatory, by adopting it home inspectors will have a better defined, clear set of requirements to stand behind when disagreements arise. Widespread implementation of the CSA standard will help inspectors to provide the best possible service to clients on a level playing field. Home buyers will have a clearer sense of what a home inspection entails and a better understanding of the scope and purpose of the service, and may seek out inspectors who can conduct an inspection to the benchmark of the standard.

    About CSA Group
    CSA Group is an independent, not-for-profit membership association dedicated to safety, social good and sustainability. Its knowledge and expertise encompass standards development; training and advisory solutions; global testing and certification services across key business areas including hazardous location and industrial, transportation, plumbing and construction, medical, safety and technology, appliances and gas, alternative energy, lighting and sustainability; as well as consumer product evaluation services. The CSA certification mark appears on billions of products worldwide. For more information about CSA Group visit | Home | CSA Group.

    Date:

    Last edited by Raymond Wand; 03-16-2016 at 07:53 PM.

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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    CAN/CSA-A770-16 | Structures | ShopCSA

    Detailed Information
    Preface
    This is the first edition of CAN/CSA-CSA A770, Home inspection.

    This Standard specifies minimum requirements for a home inspection and provides information for performing an inspection on dwellings. These inspections are typically carried out on single family homes of any building configuration, often, although not necessarily, as part of a real estate transaction. This Standard provides important and practical requirements on what items are to be inspected as part of a home inspection. This Standard is not intended to provide comprehensive requirements for the methods to be used to perform a home inspection or specific conditions to look for in a home. This information would typically be available through a recognized home inspection training program.

    This Standard has been developed through the collaboration of home inspectors, regulators, consumer agencies, and various technical specialists.

    CSA Group acknowledges that the development of this Standard was made possible, in part, by the financial support of Service Alberta, British Columbia Office of Housing and Construction Standards, Manitoba Securities Commission, Ontario Ministry of Government and Consumer Services, and Financial and Consumer Affairs Authority of Saskatchewan.

    Introduction
    0.1 General

    The intent of this Standard is to establish the requirements for the physical inspection of dwellings. This Standard is intended to provide a basis for the expectations of parties who have a stake in the home inspection. Some clients might wish to obtain an enhanced level of assessment of the home and property beyond the scope of this Standard.

    0.2 Users

    This Standard is intended to be used by home inspectors who are performing inspections, typically conducted as part of a real estate transaction. It may also be used by other individuals and organizations to better understand the scope of work covered by a home inspection conducted in accordance with this Standard.

    0.3 Application

    This Standard is primarily used to establish minimum requirements for a home inspection for

    a) clients who are purchasing or selling a home; and

    b) other purposes for which the inspector or client chooses to apply this Standard.

    0.4 Home inspections

    A home inspection is intended to be a non-invasive evaluation of the condition and performance of systems and components of a home. The primary objective is to identify and report any items that do not perform their intended function. The focus of a home inspection is typically on significant issues that are readily visible to the inspector as opposed to minor building deficiencies. Inspection of cosmetic, maintenance, and other non-critical items are typically not part of a home inspection. Home inspections in accordance with this Standard are not intended to verify a home’s compliance to codes and regulations (e.g., building codes).

    Home inspectors might wish to provide additional services beyond the requirements of this Standard if they are qualified and competent to do so. Any additional service to be provided that is beyond the scope and requirements of this Standard should be made clear to the client, e.g., through a contractual agreement.

    0.5 Guidance to users

    This Standard is organized into two main parts: the main body of the standard, which contains the mandatory requirements for home inspections, and Annex A, which contains non-mandatory commentary for the user.

    Clause 4 contains the general requirements that apply to all home inspections. This Clause is intended to frame the inspection for the user as it specifies the general requirements for the scope of the inspection, methods of inspection, and reporting. Particular attention should be given to Clause 4.3.3.2 as this Clause states the general conditions to be examined for during inspection of any given system or component that is covered in Clause 5.

    Clause 5 covers the systems and components that are to be inspected at minimum. Specific inspection requirements, including key conditions that are to be examined for, are given throughout Clause 5 where these are considered critical to a minimum inspection. It is important to note that, aside from any specific inspection requirements given in Clause 5, the user must bear in mind the overall reporting objectives of Clause 4.3, and especially the conditions to be identified in Clause 4.3.3.2, while carrying out inspection of a given system or component.

    Annex A is informative (i.e., non-mandatory). It is intended to provide the user with additional information and commentary that might be useful for understanding the requirements of this Standard and conducting a home inspection.

    Scope
    1.1 General

    This Standard specifies requirements for the physical inspection of dwellings, including

    a) the systems and components in and around a home that are to be inspected as part of a home inspection;

    b) the minimum extent to which a home is required to be inspected;

    c) general methods to be used for


    i) the examination and assessment of building components and systems at the time of the inspection; and

    ii) non-invasive inspection and testing; and

    d) minimum reporting requirements.

    1.2 Application

    This Standard applies to both site-built and factory-built (i.e., prefabricated) dwellings including, but not limited to, all or part of

    a) detached and semi-detached dwellings;

    b) townhouses; and

    c) duplexes, triplexes, and other dwellings in multi-unit buildings.

    Notes:

    1) Dwellings in multi-unit buildings can be owned (e.g., as in a freehold, condominium unit, strata unit, or co-op) or rented by the occupants.

    2) In this Standard, a condominium unit, strata unit, or co-op does not include portions of the building owned in common with other owners. These items may also be included in an inspection and employ this Standard by contractual agreement (see Annex A).

    3) Although this Standard is for the inspection of the dwelling and associated property, some properties can include one or more ancillary buildings or structures. These may also be included in an inspection and employ this Standard by contractual agreement.

    1.3 Exclusions

    This Standard does not apply to

    a) qualification, competency, or certification of individuals conducting a home inspection;

    b) inspection of industrial, commercial, or institutional buildings; or

    c) common elements in condominiums, strata plans, etc.

    Note: Common elements in condominiums, strata plans etc., may be included in an inspection by contractual agreement and employ this Standard (see Annex A).

    1.4 Terminology

    1.4.1
    In this Standard, "shall" is used to express a requirement, i.e., a provision that the user is obliged to satisfy in order to comply with the Standard; "should" is used to express a recommendation or that which is advised but not required; and "may" is used to express an option or that which is permissible within the limits of the Standard.

    Notes accompanying clauses do not include requirements or alternative requirements; the purpose of a note accompanying a clause is to separate from the text explanatory or informative material.

    Notes to tables and figures are considered part of the table or figure and may be written as requirements.

    Annexes are designated normative (mandatory) or informative (non-mandatory) to define their application.

    1.4.2
    In this Standard, the terms "as/where appropriate" and "where/if/as applicable" are used. When a requirement is qualified by one of these terms, it is deemed to be appropriate or applicable, as the case might be, unless the organization or individual can document a justification otherwise.

    Publication Year: 2016

    Total Pages: 30
    Publisher: CSA

    MM Numbers:
    PDF EN 2424354
    PDF FR 2424504


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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Panting View Post
    I asked CSA on the weekend on their discussion board
    as part of the announcement of the new standard what they decided
    they were going to do about copyright issues. I got no response.

    The copies they send out has the purchaser's name on the bottom
    of each page. How quaint.
    Curiously, they did not prevent copying of the document.
    Cut and paste is allowed.
    Thanks Steve, I agree and know there are number of others asking the same question of CSA.


  62. #62
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Caledon, Ontario
    Posts
    5,005

    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    CSA Group acknowledges that the development of this Standard was made possible, in part, by the financial support of Service Alberta, British Columbia Office of Housing and Construction Standards, Manitoba Securities Commission, Ontario Ministry of Government and Consumer Services, and Financial and Consumer Affairs Authority of Saskatchewan.

    Okay so taxpayers money was used in part to draft a standard. Yet as usual its apparent that apathy from inspectors is standard fare.

    Why aren't more inspectors partaking on the CSA forum and demanding answers? The more questions being asked the more likely the answers may be forthcoming. So far only I and Steve have bothered to ask?

    I am not referring to panel members asking questions. Who is really looking out after inspectors interests? Committee members who make up the CSA panel do not represent my interests and frankly since we are taxpayers the questions need answering. If not it looks like on big copulation fest!

    Okay bend over! It sure seems many like to bend over!


  63. #63
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    MONTREAL QUEBEC-CANADA
    Posts
    1,840

    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    Okay so taxpayers money was used in part to draft a standard. Yet as usual its apparent that apathy from inspectors is standard fare.

    Why aren't more inspectors partaking on the CSA forum and demanding answers? The more questions being asked the more likely the answers may be forthcoming. So far only I and Steve have bothered to ask?

    I am not referring to panel members asking questions. Who is really looking out after inspectors interests? Committee members who make up the CSA panel do not represent my interests and frankly since we are taxpayers the questions need answering. If not it looks like on big copulation fest!

    Okay bend over! It sure seems many like to bend over!
    Ray, association wrote the SOP they used as well.
    It would be nice to spearhead a two pronged approach.
    I am sure Nick will follow.
    He always does when inspectors are involved in malicious railroading by free loaders like the CSA.

    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
    Our Motto; Putting information where you need it most, "In your hands.”

  64. #64
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Caledon, Ontario
    Posts
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    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    Ontario Premier Kathleen Wynne doesn't deny possible prorogation -

    Ontario Premier Kathleen Wynne doesn't deny possible prorogation - Toronto - CBC News

    The result would mean putting on hold all bills before the legislature. When legislature is recalled all bills will have to be re-tabled.

    I understand that prorogation would include the home inspector licencing bill.


  65. #65
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Caledon, Ontario
    Posts
    5,005

    Default Re: Home inspector licensing legislation tabled in Ontario

    Finally an answer to questions being asked of CSA A770 on the CSA discussion forum.

    https://community.csagroup.org/commu...omment.created

    Thank you very much to everyone for the feedback. We are looking into your questions and are in the process of developing a response.



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