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  1. #1
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    Default Newb in is first pickle

    Ok so I had an inspection the other day and my client said he was the buyer. I was going through my normal inspection routine and filled up the whirlpool. When I went to turn the whirlpool on the jets didn't start up. I tryed a couple different things and I even asked the client if he had tryed the whirlpool yet to see if it works. He said he hasn't tried it yet and insisted it wasn't a big deal weather it worked or not. I move along and do my report. In the report it obviously states the whirlpool wasn't working at the time of inspection. I just sent him the report and within an hour he emails me and says that he sees that i wrote up in the report that the whirlpool doesn't work at the time of inspection and asked if that can be changed. Basically what I am assuming is that he went there again and got it to work. My question is can I and or should I revise the report and send it him if.. A. I go there and see for myself or B. does it even matter because he's the client paying for the report if he wants the report to say it works its his report I should change it to whatever he wants. I don't know what the standards or ethics are when it comes to a situation like this.

    On a side note I honestly feel like there is something fishy with this guy. He tells me when I first show up how its really good for the buyer (being himself as he claims to be) to have a ton of detailed stuff wrong with the house on the report. Saying stuff like the more thats wrong with the place the more money the buyer can save on the house. I don't know maybe this is all normal stuff its only my second inspection lol thanks and sorry for the longevity of the post

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Newb in is first pickle

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Scheuerer View Post
    Ok so I had an inspection the other day and my client said he was the buyer. I was going through my normal inspection routine and filled up the whirlpool. When I went to turn the whirlpool on the jets didn't start up. I tryed a couple different things and I even asked the client if he had tryed the whirlpool yet to see if it works. He said he hasn't tried it yet and insisted it wasn't a big deal weather it worked or not. I move along and do my report. In the report it obviously states the whirlpool wasn't working at the time of inspection. I just sent him the report and within an hour he emails me and says that he sees that i wrote up in the report that the whirlpool doesn't work at the time of inspection and asked if that can be changed. Basically what I am assuming is that he went there again and got it to work. My question is can I and or should I revise the report and send it him if.. A. I go there and see for myself or B. does it even matter because he's the client paying for the report if he wants the report to say it works its his report I should change it to whatever he wants. I don't know what the standards or ethics are when it comes to a situation like this.

    On a side note I honestly feel like there is something fishy with this guy. He tells me when I first show up how its really good for the buyer (being himself as he claims to be) to have a ton of detailed stuff wrong with the house on the report. Saying stuff like the more thats wrong with the place the more money the buyer can save on the house. I don't know maybe this is all normal stuff its only my second inspection lol thanks and sorry for the longevity of the post
    Aaron,

    DO NOT CHANGE YOUR REPORT.I just want to make that clear. Having a buyer want a lot wrong with a house is sometimes the case, but not typical (in my experience). The reality is that it does not matter what they want. You are there to provide an unbiased and objective review of the house and systems, not tell them what they want to hear. The response to him regarding the tub is that it did not work for you. If he got it to work, then he knows that it works. If the seller demonstrated that it worked, then he knows it worked. If he wants an addendum, he needs to pay for you to go back out and verify that it works.

    This goes for all future inspections. If there is something that you don't know or understand, then do the research or defer to an expert. Don't let someone bully or cajole you into changing your report. If you do, you might end up paying to replace the tub (or whatever).

    Department of Redundancy Department
    http://www.FullCircleInspect.com/

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Newb in is first pickle

    Oh, yeah... One more thing.

    Trust you feelings Luke.

    Seriously, if something feels wrong, walk away. I cannot stress this enough. You mentioned feeling something fishy. If you feel uncomfortable about someone, then you are probably picking up on some subtle sign. Let the person know that you are uncomfortable with the situation and they would probably be better served by using a different inspector. This is one of the most difficult things to do. I know that you want to earn a living and you need as much exposure as you can get. However, I know from experience that when I don't listen to my little voice, I end up regretting it.

    Department of Redundancy Department
    http://www.FullCircleInspect.com/

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Newb in is first pickle

    1. First make sure who your client is.

    2. If client asks for change to report that would depend on circumstances. Sometimes client will call and say something you verbally noted about a defect to him/her was left out of report. Hence asking you to state so in the report. I have revised my report to reflect same.

    3. If the whirlpool was not working at the time and subsequently the client asks you change the report to state it is working, I would have asked what transpired after you left, and dependent on that answer would change the report. Unless the so-called client is not really the client then I would be in a quandary as to why he would want it changed. However I don't know why he would contradict himself having made prior comment that the whirlpool not working was no big deal only to call later and state otherwise.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Newb in is first pickle

    I don't know what the standards or ethics are when it comes to a situation like this.
    Then you have bigger problems.... learn these basic requirements before collecting an inspection fee from a paying client.

    And follow the other's posters advice for what to change/not change.

    Dom.


  6. #6
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    Default Re: Newb in is first pickle

    If it didn't work at the time of the inspection and you reported that it didn't work at the time of the inspection ... then someone did something after the inspection and got it working ... your report was accurate and correct - wasn't it?

    Why would you need to change your report - it was ... is ... correct.

    Whether you make a business decision to go back out and reinspect or not, and how much you would charge, is up to you.

    If you can back and reinspect, you still don't "change" your report - you issue an "update adendum" with the results of the reinspection.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Newb in is first pickle

    thanks guys! Much appreciated


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Newb in is first pickle

    Just to throw this out there.
    I have ammended an inspection report from an error on my part.
    In advance I call the client and make everyone aware as to the oversight.
    The report is edited, published and renumbered.

    As to your on site observation. Do not change a thing.
    Also, Whirlpool Corporation is an American multinational manufacturer and marketer of home appliances.

    Just a thought. The appliance, circulating water or air soak tub, if it was, and physical location.

    Observation: Bathtub circulating water / air appliance was inoperative the day of the inspection.

    Personally I do not test such equipment. If it catastrophically fails, leaks, or there is an electrical failure, short circuit causing the mechanical equipment to be replaced, I know the first target being shot at is the last person that operated it.

    Home seller: "It worked perfectly before you arrived."

    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
    Our Motto; Putting information where you need it most, "In your hands.”

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Newb in is first pickle

    Quote Originally Posted by ROBERT YOUNG View Post
    Personally I do not test such equipment. If it catastrophically fails, leaks, or there is an electrical failure, short circuit causing the mechanical equipment to be replaced, I know the first target being shot at is the last person that operated it.
    Robert,

    If you test it and it fails, you will be the target of a lawsuit. If you don't test it and it fails, you will be the target of a lawsuit. You were on the property and attorneys will bring everyone that they can into the suit in order to get as much money as possible. Either way, your insurance company will probably settle out of court. That is the reality of it.

    Department of Redundancy Department
    http://www.FullCircleInspect.com/

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Newb in is first pickle

    Quote Originally Posted by ROBERT YOUNG View Post
    Personally I do not test such equipment. If it catastrophically fails, leaks, or there is an electrical failure, short circuit causing the mechanical equipment to be replaced, I know the first target being shot at is the last person that operated it.
    As Gunnar said, if you DON'T test it and (as you said) "If it catastrophically fails, leaks, or there is an electrical failure, short circuit causing the mechanical equipment to be replaced" you WILL not only be on the defendants list, you will likely be at the top of the defendants list, and your defense of 'I didn't test it' will be Exhibit A in the suite against you ... because you DIDN'T test it and, if you had, the client would have know about its condition ...

    ... kind of like this sign: http://overlawyered.com/2014/08/warning-sign/

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Newb in is first pickle

    Anyone can be sued, all it takes is a disgruntled client, even if the claim is meritless.

    If you for whatever reason do not test certain items, then it should be stated so in your contract which of course should be presented for client review well ahead of the inspection date. Alternatively if the whirlpool could not be tested due to damage or has been disconnected, et ceteras, that should be stated in the report. Contractual items listed as being excluded from inspection via contract and or SOP have withstood liability challenges at least in Canada.


  12. #12
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    Default Re: Newb in is first pickle

    Consider this..
    If it's not working (per the report) the spa is probably not covered under a Home Warranty, which may have been obtained. If the report shows it was working (but it actually wasn't) once the client is the owner he can claim for a repair..shell out his $40-$60 service fee and have a new pump or even new tub installed under warranty.

    If it wasn't working when you inspected it, or you couldn't get it to work your report should state that. If the spa is now working, no harm no foul.

    Last edited by Ian Page; 06-04-2016 at 01:19 PM.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Newb in is first pickle

    If you are not going to test something because you are afraid of being sued if it breaks, you might want to reconsider this line of work.
    I see a lot more potential problems by not testing something, than taking the chance on something bad happening.
    I once tested a larger than normal whirlpool tub in a very large house. The house was 5 years old. As I was filling it, I went about my business checking the sinks, toilet and shower in the bathroom. After I had finished with all that, I checked on the tub filling and noticed it wasn't very full. I stopped the faucets to check if the drain stopper was working properly. That's when I heard water running.

    I ran down to the basement to see water flowing thru the ceiling and light fixtures. I ran back upstairs to hit the drain the tub, then back to the basement, grabber a bunch of plastic bins I had noticed and started catching the water.

    About this time, the alarm went off. Of course I could not give the password to the alarm company, so they sent police and the fire dept. The police looked at my paperwork, and left. The fire dept had to go thru the house to determine there wasn't a fire.

    During all this. the neighbor comes over with a phone and is giving the owner of the house a blow by blow description on how the home inspector maybe set fire to her house (nice guy, right?).
    I told the homeowner what I had done, and she said, "Well, i've never used that tub". I explained that I had looked in the motor access and could see that they had never connected the pipes to the pump.
    I asked her if she had the house inspected when she built it, and she said she hadn't , but the same builder was building her new house.

    After the dust cleared, the builder was the one on the hot seat, since his guys had never installed it properly. What was amazing is the ceiling in the basement did not so much as pop a tape joint. All of the water flowed thru the can lights.

    I think it might not have had the same outcome had I not tested the tub, and the new homeowner's had the waterfall experience.

    - - - Updated - - -

    If you are not going to test something because you are afraid of being sued if it breaks, you might want to reconsider this line of work.
    I see a lot more potential problems by not testing something, than taking the chance on something bad happening.
    I once tested a larger than normal whirlpool tub in a very large house. The house was 5 years old. As I was filling it, I went about my business checking the sinks, toilet and shower in the bathroom. After I had finished with all that, I checked on the tub filling and noticed it wasn't very full. I stopped the faucets to check if the drain stopper was working properly. That's when I heard water running.

    I ran down to the basement to see water flowing thru the ceiling and light fixtures. I ran back upstairs to hit the drain the tub, then back to the basement, grabber a bunch of plastic bins I had noticed and started catching the water.

    About this time, the alarm went off. Of course I could not give the password to the alarm company, so they sent police and the fire dept. The police looked at my paperwork, and left. The fire dept had to go thru the house to determine there wasn't a fire.

    During all this. the neighbor comes over with a phone and is giving the owner of the house a blow by blow description on how the home inspector maybe set fire to her house (nice guy, right?).
    I told the homeowner what I had done, and she said, "Well, i've never used that tub". I explained that I had looked in the motor access and could see that they had never connected the pipes to the pump.
    I asked her if she had the house inspected when she built it, and she said she hadn't , but the same builder was building her new house.

    After the dust cleared, the builder was the one on the hot seat, since his guys had never installed it properly. What was amazing is the ceiling in the basement did not so much as pop a tape joint. All of the water flowed thru the can lights.

    I think it might not have had the same outcome had I not tested the tub, and the new homeowner's had the waterfall experience.

    - - - Updated - - -

    If you are not going to test something because you are afraid of being sued if it breaks, you might want to reconsider this line of work.
    I see a lot more potential problems by not testing something, than taking the chance on something bad happening.
    I once tested a larger than normal whirlpool tub in a very large house. The house was 5 years old. As I was filling it, I went about my business checking the sinks, toilet and shower in the bathroom. After I had finished with all that, I checked on the tub filling and noticed it wasn't very full. I stopped the faucets to check if the drain stopper was working properly. That's when I heard water running.

    I ran down to the basement to see water flowing thru the ceiling and light fixtures. I ran back upstairs to hit the drain the tub, then back to the basement, grabber a bunch of plastic bins I had noticed and started catching the water.

    About this time, the alarm went off. Of course I could not give the password to the alarm company, so they sent police and the fire dept. The police looked at my paperwork, and left. The fire dept had to go thru the house to determine there wasn't a fire.

    During all this. the neighbor comes over with a phone and is giving the owner of the house a blow by blow description on how the home inspector maybe set fire to her house (nice guy, right?).
    I told the homeowner what I had done, and she said, "Well, i've never used that tub". I explained that I had looked in the motor access and could see that they had never connected the pipes to the pump.
    I asked her if she had the house inspected when she built it, and she said she hadn't , but the same builder was building her new house.

    After the dust cleared, the builder was the one on the hot seat, since his guys had never installed it properly. What was amazing is the ceiling in the basement did not so much as pop a tape joint. All of the water flowed thru the can lights.

    I think it might not have had the same outcome had I not tested the tub, and the new homeowner's had the waterfall experience.


  14. #14
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    Mar 2007
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    Default Re: Newb in is first pickle

    I had a similar experience to Jack's ... similar except that I was inspecting a new home for a client at their walk through ... I was upstairs testing the master spa tub, shower stall, and all the other fixtures in a rather large house.

    I realized that I was hearing what sounded like a waterfall in the background ... I proceeded to begin turning one fixture at a time off, and after turning the last fixture off I still heard the waterfall.

    I went down the stairs and the further I went down the louder the waterfall noise became ... water was pouring out of every opening through the ceiling over the entire downstairs.

    I headed out the front door to get the supt ... who happened to be walking up the front walkway to check on my progress ... talk about all heck breaking loose ... you could probably have heard that supt all across the development

    Turns out that the supt had tested that spa tub 2 days earlier and it worked ... but he was not told that another supt had "borrowed" his spa tub motor the day before so the other supt could close on another house.

    Unlike Jack's house - they had to pull down most of the ceilings, replace all the cabinets, replace all the expensive light fixtures, replace the wood floor, and on and on.

    My client was very grateful for my test ... the supt was totally pi$$ed - at the other supt ... the developer/builder started a new policy where ANYTHING that was to be taken from any house was logged on a large board by the supt taking it and initialed by the supt of the house it was to be taken from before something could be taken.

    My clients closing ended up being delayed a couple of months as I recall because of all the work which had to be done - but they were okay with that because it wasn't on their dime ... the developer covered all their expenses for the hotel, storage, meals, everything.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  15. #15
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    Mar 2007
    Location
    Spring City/Surrounding Philadelphia area
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    Default Re: Newb in is first pickle

    Aaron, like the others have said, stick with what you saw during the course of the inspection. If the tub was not operable, it was not operable. Whatever the buyer may have gotten the tub to do after the inspection should have no bearing on how you write your report.

    Also, something to consider is that if you change your report and say the tub is operable, how do you know the buyer was telling the truth? He could move it, get somebody to come in to service the tub and say it was never operable, and then you're sucked back in.

    Simply document what you saw during inspection and let it go at that.

    "It takes a big man to cry. It takes an even bigger man to laugh at that man". - Jack Handey

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    2,778

    Default Re: Newb in is first pickle

    There may be a conspiracy to defraud someone. Wanting you to change your written observation is a red flag. It is what it is.

    If you are willing to go back and check the tub operation that is your choice. But it would be an addendum to the original report stating what you found on that testing/inspection follow up date.


  17. #17
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    Mar 2007
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    Spring Hill (Nashville), TN
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    Default Re: Newb in is first pickle

    Quote Originally Posted by ROBERT YOUNG View Post
    Just to throw this out there.
    I have ammended an inspection report from an error on my part.
    In advance I call the client and make everyone aware as to the oversight.
    The report is edited, published and renumbered.

    As to your on site observation. Do not change a thing.
    Also, Whirlpool Corporation is an American multinational manufacturer and marketer of home appliances.

    Just a thought. The appliance, circulating water or air soak tub, if it was, and physical location.

    Observation: Bathtub circulating water / air appliance was inoperative the day of the inspection.

    Personally I do not test such equipment. If it catastrophically fails, leaks, or there is an electrical failure, short circuit causing the mechanical equipment to be replaced, I know the first target being shot at is the last person that operated it.

    Home seller: "It worked perfectly before you arrived."
    That's just foolish not testing a tub like that. Do you turn showers on? Do you take the electrical panel cover off? Do you turn on the garbage disposal? The list can got on with items that can fail and cause damage… It is part of our job and the reason that you need to have general liability insurance coverage.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

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