Thread: Bill 59

Have any Ontario inspectors read section 60 of the proposed legislation to regulate the Home Inspection Industry?

Take the time to read it! Your rights will disappear unless amendments are made! Not Kidding... this section gives unlimited powers of search and seizure without warrant that police do not have.! Be afraid..... Be very afraid!

Cheers

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Originally Posted by Doug Cossar

Have any Ontario inspectors read section 60 of the proposed legislation to regulate the Home Inspection Industry?

Take the time to read it! Your rights will disappear unless amendments are made! Not Kidding... this section gives unlimited powers of search and seizure without warrant that police do not have.! Be afraid..... Be very afraid!

Cheers

Thanks Doug.

The reality there's a lot of support for the Bill to pass in the Assembly by the MPPs. Providing constructive feedback either in person or by contacting the Committee, with documentation is what will bring attention to the problematic portions of the Home Inspector Bill.

So we have as some may say "one last kick at the can" before 3rd reading.

It's a non issue. It's been challenged in court and withstood Chapter 8 of the Charter.

I'd be more concerned about the paid lobbyists plying their wants and needs on government officials.

Originally Posted by Claude Lawrenson

Thanks Doug.

The reality there's a lot of support for the Bill to pass in the Assembly by the MPPs. Providing constructive feedback either in person or by contacting the Committee, with documentation is what will bring attention to the problematic portions of the Home Inspector Bill.

So we have as some may say "one last kick at the can" before 3rd reading.

There is no doubt the bill will pass but changes need to be made.
Committee members can be contacted here: http://www.ontla.on.ca/web/committee...embers&ID=7349

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

It's a non issue. It's been challenged in court and withstood Chapter 8 of the Charter.

I'd be more concerned about the paid lobbyists plying their wants and needs on government officials.

Please enlighten me Ray.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

It's a non issue. It's been challenged in court and withstood Chapter 8 of the Charter.

I'd be more concerned about the paid lobbyists plying their wants and needs on government officials.

Section 60 says:
60. (1) A statutory inspector may, without a warrant or court order, conduct an inspection in accordance with this section for the purpose of,
(a) ensuring compliance with this Act and the regulations;
(b) dealing with a complaint under section 57; or
(c) ensuring the licensee remains entitled to a licence.
Power to enter premises
(2) As part of an inspection, a statutory inspector may, without a warrant or court order, enter and inspect, at any reasonable time, the business premises of a licensee.
Powers on inspection
(3) While carrying out an inspection, a statutory inspector,
(a) is entitled to free access to all money, valuables, documents and records of the person being inspected that are relevant to the inspection;
(b) may make reasonable inquiries of any person, orally or in writing, with respect to anything relevant to the inspection;
(c) may require a person to produce any document or record relevant to the inspection and to provide whatever assistance is reasonably necessary, including using any data storage, processing or retrieval device or system to produce, in any form, the document or record;
(d) may use any data storage, processing or retrieval device or system used to engage in activities of a licensee in order to produce information that is relevant to the inspection and that is in any form; and
(e) may, upon giving a receipt for them, remove for examination and copy anything relevant to the inspection, including any data storage disk or other retrieval device in order to produce information, but shall promptly return to the person being inspected the thing that was removed.
No use of force
(4) A statutory inspector shall not use force to enter and inspect premises under this section.
No obstruction
(5) No person shall obstruct a statutory inspector conducting an inspection or withhold from the statutory inspector or conceal, alter or destroy any money, documents or records that are relevant to the inspection.
Compliance
(6) If a statutory inspector under clause (3) (c) requires a person to produce a document or record and to provide assistance, the person shall produce the document or record or provide the assistance, as the case may be.
Admissibility of copies

Seems to give authority to enter a dwelling without warrant as a vast majority of inspectors operate from their home (I suspect).

Cheers

Define statutory inspector.

Originally Posted by ROBERT YOUNG

Define statutory inspector.

Does not say much but here it is:

“statutory inspector” means a statutory inspector appointed under subsection 59 (2); (“inspecteur”)

59. (1) The registrar is, by virtue of his or her office, a statutory inspector.Appointment (2) The registrar may appoint persons to be statutory inspectors for the purposes of conducting inspections.

Cheers

Originally Posted by Doug Cossar

Does not say much but here it is:

“statutory inspector” means a statutory inspector appointed under subsection 59 (2); (“inspecteur”)

59. (1) The registrar is, by virtue of his or her office, a statutory inspector.Appointment (2) The registrar may appoint persons to be statutory inspectors for the purposes of conducting inspections.
Cheers

In USA we are home inspectors are selected by buyers at their option. Nothing statutory about that. Buyers are not required to have a home inspection.

Maybe in Canada it is mandatory, but I'm guessing that a statutory inspector is the AHJ. Not the Home "Inspecteur" .

Originally Posted by Doug Cossar

Does not say much but here it is:

“statutory inspector” means a statutory inspector appointed under subsection 59 (2); (“inspecteur”)

59. (1) The registrar is, by virtue of his or her office, a statutory inspector.Appointment (2) The registrar may appoint persons to be statutory inspectors for the purposes of conducting inspections.
Cheers

The appointed investigator into allegations and complaints concerning home inspectors.
That crosses the line.
They should be a hearing by an independent body.
If not, you are assumed guilty until proven innocent. Not much good faith there is there.

Doug, much thanks.
I thought I would ask but I figgered as much.

Doug

(2) As part of an inspection, a statutory inspector may, without a warrant or court order, enter and inspect, at any reasonable time, the business premises of a licensee.

Powers on inspection
(3) While carrying out an inspection, a statutory inspector,
(a) is entitled to free access to all money, valuables, documents and records of the person being inspected that are relevant to the inspection;
(b) may make reasonable inquiries of any person, orally or in writing, with respect to anything relevant to the inspection;

What is the problem as you see it? The extent of the power to enter your home (place of business), and privacy issues as it relates to a business and/or your home?

http://www.c2cjournal.ca/2012/09/how...out-a-warrant/

Raymond, when does a police officer have the right to do the same?

For your info;

BUSINESS PRACTICES AND CONSUMER PROTECTION ACT
[SBC 2004] CHAPTER 2
Part 10 — Inspections and Enforcement

Division 1 — Inspections

Inspection powers
150
(1) For the purposes of an inspection, an inspector may do any of the following:

(a) enter the business premises of a person at any reasonable time;

(2) The authority under subsection (1) must not be used to enter a private dwelling except with the consent of the occupant or with the authority of a warrant under section 152 [inspection under warrant].

Robert,

Your not guilty until found guilty. Search under the powers is also not an indicator, nor proof of guilt. Guilt is determined by the trier of fact based upon evidence.

Robert,

You asked when can a police officer enter a home without warrant?

http://www.cleo.on.ca/en/publication...-enter-my-home

[QUOTE=Steve Panting;270351]For your info;

BUSINESS PRACTICES AND CONSUMER PROTECTION ACT
[SBC 2004] CHAPTER 2
Part 10 — Inspections and Enforcement

Division 1 — Inspections

Inspection powers
150
(1) For the purposes of an inspection, an inspector may do any of the following:

(a) enter the business premises of a person at any reasonable time;

(2) The authority under subsection (1) must not be used to enter a private dwelling except with the consent of the occupant or with the authority of a warrant under section 152 [inspection under warrant].[/QUOTE]

That part is missing in Section 60.That is my point!

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

Robert,

You asked when can a police officer enter a home without warrant?

http://www.cleo.on.ca/en/publication...-enter-my-home

Ray,we are talking about home inspectors.
If lincing passes likely criminal background checks will eliminate the need for such evasive action by the specially assigned authorized dick inspector.
Whats next, a gun on the home inspector dick?
Guilty to proven innocent.
Much needs to be done.
Mr. Cossar knows more about this than most if not all here.

Robert, you asked when a police officer can enter a home without warrant. I provided the facts. I know we are talking about home inspectors, you through into the mix that of police officers.

Criminal background checks have nothing to do with the proposed act, the act provides for investigation powers. Criminal background checks do not ensure anyone will not become the subject of an investigation through their own actions, or through complaints brought by a member of the public/client.

You are stretching with suggesting guns will be the next items statutory inspectors will be able to carry.

Again no one is guilty until proven guilty, if you have evidence to suggest this please enlighten me. That is not how the law works and your ideas of guilt without trail are contrary to the constitution.

So far I haven't seen anything from Doug to support his views to suggest these regulatory wording.

Opinions are just that opinions until tangible evidence is provided. I can provide case law to support my opinions, can you?

Best,

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

Robert, you asked when a police officer can enter a home without warrant. I provided the facts. I know we are talking about home inspectors, you through into the mix that of police officers.

Criminal background checks have nothing to do with the proposed act, the act provides for investigation powers. Criminal background checks do not ensure anyone will not become the subject of an investigation through their own actions, or through complaints brought by a member of the public/client.

You are stretching with suggesting guns will be the next items statutory inspectors will be able to carry.

Again no one is guilty until proven guilty, if you have evidence to suggest this please enlighten me. That is not how the law works and your ideas of guilt without trail are contrary to the constitution.

So far I haven't seen anything from Doug to support his views to suggest these regulatory wording.

Opinions are just that opinions until tangible evidence is provided. I can provide case law to support my opinions, can you?

Best,

Thanks.
I over reacted.
Not like me to do things like that?

Much thanks.

Originally Posted by Ken Amelin

In USA we are home inspectors are selected by buyers at their option. Nothing statutory about that. Buyers are not required to have a home inspection.

Maybe in Canada it is mandatory, but I'm guessing that a statutory inspector is the AHJ. Not the Home "Inspecteur" .

Nope
The statutory inspector is the person employed by the province to enforce the provisions of the Home Inspector Licencing law.

Home inspections here are not mandatory....... we wish
Cheers

Robert,

No problem, just want to make certain facts are presented objectively.

Wasn't trying busto le palle.

Best,

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

Robert, you asked when a police officer can enter a home without warrant. I provided the facts. I know we are talking about home inspectors, you through into the mix that of police officers.

Criminal background checks have nothing to do with the proposed act, the act provides for investigation powers. Criminal background checks do not ensure anyone will not become the subject of an investigation through their own actions, or through complaints brought by a member of the public/client.

You are stretching with suggesting guns will be the next items statutory inspectors will be able to carry.

Again no one is guilty until proven guilty, if you have evidence to suggest this please enlighten me. That is not how the law works and your ideas of guilt without trail are contrary to the constitution.

So far I haven't seen anything from Doug to support his views to suggest these regulatory wording.

Opinions are just that opinions until tangible evidence is provided. I can provide case law to support my opinions, can you?

Best,

Ray:
As written, section 60 gives a statutory inspector the authority to enter a business premise bla bla, bla..... as you stated.

There is NO requirement to obtain a warrant or permission if the business premise or part thereof is a dwelling house. Most Home Inspectors operate out of their home, at least most I know of do. You point out other legislation that makes that provision.

That is my point. I just hope the committee reviewing this legislation takes that into account.

Cheers

Thanks Doug, no harm in trying. The whole licencing issue seems to being played out by a few big players, judging by the lobbyist list. We've lost control of the profession and to big business.

Anyway (Doug and Robert), here is an article which will answer many of the issues raised in the discussion regarding inspections and privacy, so forth and so on.

Best,

Court of Appeal for British Columbia
R. v. Bichel
Date: 1986 06 20
http://www.oboa.on.ca/training/casel....%20Bichel.pdf

Ray, thanks for the link. Good read. Being naive to the process, a statutory inspector is required under provincial business regulations.
As for this once cottage industry. Business lobbies, governments listen to big tax payers, and listen intently if there is more money to be extracted. Even if their product/service may be conflicted in interests, does the least amount of service, contracted for the lowest fee many times.
Bare bones SOP, a 30-45 minute assessment and on site report.
CD call it speed reporting. Go bloody figure they are at the table.
As many reports as can be produced in one day.

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

Thanks Doug, no harm in trying. The whole licencing issue seems to being played out by a few big players, judging by the lobbyist list. We've lost control of the profession and to big business.

Anyway (Doug and Robert), here is an article which will answer many of the issues raised in the discussion regarding inspections and privacy, so forth and so on.

Best,

Court of Appeal for British Columbia
R. v. Bichel
Date: 1986 06 20
http://www.oboa.on.ca/training/casel....%20Bichel.pdf

Thanks for the info Ray.
I have had communication with one of the committee members, (my local MPP, actually)
He responded by saying my submissions and other amendments are being considered for meetings in the new year.
Cheers.