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  1. #196
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    Default Re: Which home inspection association should I join? ASHI or InterNACHI?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Sheppard View Post
    Manufacturer's installation instruction are enforceable extensions of the Building Code. How can you not know this.
    ???
    For one, I am not a building code inspector or an authority having jurisdiction, AHJ.
    Secondly, I do not work for Building Code enforcement officials in any capacity.
    This work is generally carried out by municipal building departments.
    As well, the SoP I follow excludes this type of assessment process unless provisions are made within the PIA. As well, the client must request and agreeing to those provision in written form.
    Hope that helps.

    I am a home inspector to which you told Lisa you were not.
    I belong to the largest home inspection association in North America, to which you appear to be disgruntled with along with Raymond Wand and several others here at InspectionNews.
    Not many thank goodness.
    Robert S. I think you are comparing apples to oranges.

    The certification process will play an import role in North America in the very near future.
    Millions of manufacturing sector workers all over North America lost good paying jobs due to the global economy. The US and Canadian governments are well aware of this.
    Just infrastructure building, modifying and modernizing can stabilize the economy.
    Infrastructure will be one of the leading economic forces creating a stronger more robust middle class with good paying jobs.

    Individuals can educate and pass examines from the comfort of their home. Provider can develop forms of proctoring. Home monitoring for a fee, libraries or other municipal centers are right around the corner.

    Robert, technology and marketing is here to stay as you well know being the Best Home Inspector in the World. That's even if you do not inspect home, per say...
    We are no longer restricted to colleges and universities for education and monitoring.
    The home inspection cottage industry is expanding in Canada and with it come individuals willing to educate, work for, or attempt to become a successful home inspection business.
    Marketing is all part of the process.
    Do not get mad at evolution.
    Be happy you have a job and wish everyone the very best success they can obtain.

    Hope that helps.
    Best.
    Robert.

    Inspection Referral SOC
    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
    Our Motto; Putting information where you need it most, "In your hands.”

  2. #197
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    Default Re: Which home inspection association should I join? ASHI or InterNACHI?

    Quote Originally Posted by ROBERT YOUNG View Post
    Raymond, to be fair to the statement, "become certified in as little as 5 days." if I am not mistaken Claude Lawrence was a professor at a school that did the exact same thing. wasn't it Humber College.
    Moreover, I think he had the title teacher as his official capacity until an Ontario grandfathering clause kicked in with all teachers being designated professors.

    You use to use that "personally well developed narrative" directed at him if I am not mistaken. He use to explain the facts behind the course if I remember correctly. Moreover, look how he is recognised now throughout Canada. Must be something to hands on training. As well, become certified in as little as 5 days does not denote, will be a certified in as little as 5 days.

    I think Robert S. summed it up well saying, construction experience is an asset and I agree.

    Woulda, Shoulda, Coulda at least allow the providers and professors a/the chance to explain the curriculum and prerequisites involved for certifications before say, "God help the public." I think the correct term to use would be the home purchasing consumer as well.
    Robert Y - again, it's unfortunate that you continue to make assumptions.

    I taught for over 25 years as a Professor of Architecture in the St. Clair College School of Engineering. I actually started at the college in 1988 and prior to that was a supply teacher in local high schools for tech programs. In the college I was never a teacher that rolled over to be a professor. Education and earned qualifications still count in the Ontario College system. Educators are never "grandfathered" in a provincial education system, one must attend a formal education and training system. I attended several universities including one that specifically focused on "adult education" and additionally successfully completed mandatory college training programs. So I hope that clarifies what you claim.

    So wherever, or by whoever you got that load of rubbish about teacher to professor status, is certainly not the case. So I certainly find it unprofessional to see your statement to undermine my credibility.

    Next regarding teaching for Humber College in Ontario. The company I am a business partner with created and contracted with the college to provide the very first online home inspection program in Ontario. It certainly was a far cry from being a 5 day program. It never was. It was over 480 hours in duration to complete the program. It involved 7 courses and each course averaged 40 to 80 hours. Even today our education, now updated is recognized in several other provinces including most recent licensing requirements for the Province of BC.

    Regarding hands-on-training, we offer mentoring or what some call field supervised training. Even within courses other means of delivery enhance the practical experience through a variety of adult training methodologies.

    Certainly 5 days of training is a good basic start, but a far stretch to gain the required depth of knowledge to be a "professional". Further to that I'm a firm believer in accountability and rigor, which includes proctored exams and peer evaluations.

    So you are truly way off base on your facts regarding me, or any training that I have been involved with. Furthermore I suggest that you get your facts straight and do your research in earnest before making posting.


  3. #198
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    Default Re: Which home inspection association should I join? ASHI or InterNACHI?

    Quote Originally Posted by Claude Lawrenson View Post
    Robert Y - again, it's unfortunate that you continue to make assumptions.

    I taught for over 25 years as a Professor of Architecture in the St. Clair College School of Engineering. I actually started at the college in 1988 and prior to that was a supply teacher in local high schools for tech programs. In the college I was never a teacher that rolled over to be a professor. Education and earned qualifications still count in the Ontario College system. Educators are never "grandfathered" in a provincial education system, one must attend a formal education and training system. I attended several universities including one that specifically focused on "adult education" and additionally successfully completed mandatory college training programs. So I hope that clarifies what you claim.

    So wherever, or by whoever you got that load of rubbish about teacher to professor status, is certainly not the case. So I certainly find it unprofessional to see your statement to undermine my credibility.

    Next regarding teaching for Humber College in Ontario. The company I am a business partner with created and contracted with the college to provide the very first online home inspection program in Ontario. It certainly was a far cry from being a 5 day program. It never was. It was over 480 hours in duration to complete the program. It involved 7 courses and each course averaged 40 to 80 hours. Even today our education, now updated is recognized in several other provinces including most recent licensing requirements for the Province of BC.

    Regarding hands-on-training, we offer mentoring or what some call field supervised training. Even within courses other means of delivery enhance the practical experience through a variety of adult training methodologies.

    Certainly 5 days of training is a good basic start, but a far stretch to gain the required depth of knowledge to be a "professional". Further to that I'm a firm believer in accountability and rigor, which includes proctored exams and peer evaluations.

    So you are truly way off base on your facts regarding me, or any training that I have been involved with. Furthermore I suggest that you get your facts straight and do your research in earnest before making posting.
    with all due respect, I am in no way undermining your credibility. The opposite I feel.
    Sorry if it appears I hurt your feelings but you should read the post again.

    He use to "explain the facts" behind the course if I remember correctly. Moreover, look how he is recognised now throughout Canada.
    You think I was trying to tarnish your reputation?

    As well, teachers were grandfathered professors from what I understand. How does that tarnish anything.
    I was supporting the credibility of professors to be able to educate individuals.

    Now, if I am mistaken about you taught at Humber College, I retake that statement.
    You explained yourself and do not have to be so defensive.

    Live class studies, be it a week or a year is acceptable. Live training by teachers with proctored exams is a damn sight more than online classes "that are acceptable" in MOST provinces.
    Hope that helps.

    One last thing. You are allowed your perception of the industry Claude as well as everyone within the industry.
    Look at a major home inspection players that dropped the ball due to conflicted interests I feel. You can add most associations as well.
    Does not take a blind man to see all the education in the world says you are good or ethical.
    Want to really make a change, be at arm's length, and lobby a separation between realtor referrals and home inspectors. That's when the real homie comes out to work off their merits ALONE and on their clients behalf...

    Best.

    Last edited by ROBERT YOUNG; 01-01-2017 at 08:46 AM.
    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
    Our Motto; Putting information where you need it most, "In your hands.”

  4. #199
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    Default Re: Which home inspection association should I join? ASHI or InterNACHI?

    Quote Originally Posted by ROBERT YOUNG View Post
    with all due respect, I am in no way undermining your credibility. The opposite I feel.
    Sorry if it appears I hurt your feelings but you should read the post again.

    He use to "explain the facts" behind the course if I remember correctly. Moreover, look how he is recognised now throughout Canada.
    You think I was trying to tarnish your reputation?

    As well, teachers were grandfathered professors from what I understand. How does that tarnish anything.
    I was supporting the credibility of professors to be able to educate individuals.

    Now, if I am mistaken about you taught at Humber College, I retake that statement.
    You explained yourself and do not have to be so defensive.

    Live class studies, be it a week or a year is acceptable. Live training by teachers with proctored exams is a damn sight more than online classes "that are acceptable" in MOST provinces.
    Hope that helps.

    One last thing. You are allowed your perception of the industry Claude as well as everyone within the industry.
    Look at a major home inspection players that dropped the ball due to conflicted interests I feel. You can add most associations as well.
    Does not take a blind man to see all the education in the world says you are good or ethical.
    Want to really make a change, be at arm's length, and lobby a separation between realtor referrals and home inspectors. That's when the real homie comes out to work off their merits ALONE and on their clients behalf...

    Best.
    Robert Y - again, don't try to smooth it over. You made very incriminating statements, that are not based on fact. It does not make it right to post without realizing that false statements will likely solicit feedback or pushback.

    It's no wonder you may feel picked on. Rather than shoot from the hip in cowboy mentality at what seems to be a target. I would rather choose my words wisely and be best possible to assure reasonable if not absolute accuracy in my posts, rather than make numerous posts that detract from the topic.

    My point being before you mention names and make this "personal", at least be accurate in your claims or comments. I offered you facts, and that's a far cry difference from what you initially stated.

    So I challenge you on your claim that "teachers were grandfathered to professors". Please provide a source not just for my gratification, but for every professor that you choose to undermine in their hard work and accomplishments to achieve that title. To me it's akin to a home inspector that claimed to hold a PHD in Home Inspection or even certified master inspectors that have come to the realization that it's mainly a marketing tool. Yes and admittedly likely most every other home inspection designation.

    Again Robert S offered you an explanation and sound reasoning. Others that I consider valued have also provided statements to respond to this topical thread, but I fail to see how your initial response in which you name me personally has anything to do about which home inspection to join.

    So back on topic - I belong to many associations including ASHI and InterNACHI, etc. They all have their good and bad points. Likewise it's not always about who is the biggest or proclaimed best, it's about which association model one chooses or opts not to join.


  5. #200
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    Default Re: Which home inspection association should I join? ASHI or InterNACHI?

    Claude,

    Just saying; but I did not read Roberts post as putting you down.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_ranks_in_Canada

    What do you call a professor? - Macleans.ca

    I can remember in college the teachers were called instructors. Then one day I woke up and realized something happened overnite, and instructors somehow started referencing themselves as professors. College teachers were instructors and university instructors/teachers where always referenced as professor.

    Last edited by Raymond Wand; 01-01-2017 at 09:38 AM.

  6. #201
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    Default Re: Which home inspection association should I join? ASHI or InterNACHI?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    Claude,

    Just saying; but I did not read Roberts post as putting you down.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_ranks_in_Canada

    What do you call a professor? - Macleans.ca

    I can remember in college the teachers were called instructors. Then one day wrote up and realized something happened overnite, and instructors somehow started referencing themselves as professors.
    Thanks Ray. Much appreciated. Great links by the way.

    Title confuses many. None more so than in a political arena or courtroom atmosphere where the title engineer appears to be the narrow narrative used many to demote anyone that wishes to argue the points of the case.

    Claude, maybe I should have polished the post but my intent was to establish credibility through classroom training. I thought of Claude's remarkable carrier first thing.

    Happy new year.

    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
    Our Motto; Putting information where you need it most, "In your hands.”

  7. #202
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    Default Re: Which home inspection association should I join? ASHI or InterNACHI?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    Claude,

    Just saying; but I did not read Roberts post as putting you down.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_ranks_in_Canada

    What do you call a professor? - Macleans.ca

    I can remember in college the teachers were called instructors. Then one day I woke up and realized something happened overnite, and instructors somehow started referencing themselves as professors. College teachers were instructors and university instructors/teachers where always referenced as professor.
    Thanks Raymond - my understanding is that he named me and associated a "5 day Humber course" that he claimed I was associated with is what I see as the "false statement". He also claimed that "teachers were grandfathered as professors".

    Robert Y stated - "Raymond, to be fair to the statement, "become certified in as little as 5 days." if I am not mistaken Claude Lawrence was a professor at a school that did the exact same thing. wasn't it Humber College.
    Moreover, I think he had the title teacher as his official capacity until an Ontario grandfathering clause kicked in with all teachers being designated professors.The other thing I note is the the term professor would appear again by his comment to infer that professors were simply "teachers" grandfathered by title. Again I fail to see proof to support such as statement."

    Yes there are instructors in the college system as well as professors. In fact the instructor and professor titles have very distinct roles. Instructors cannot create curriculum, however they can deliver it under the guidance of a professor. Likewise a professor designs/creates, reviews and revises courses and curriculum in a program of study. The "university system" in Ontario is different when it comes to full time positions.

    As I stated, I was hired in 1988 as an instructor, and by completing further education and mandatory courses within my 2 year probationary period made it to position of professor. After I took further training to become a program coordinator, which simply reduced my schedule and take on more administrative duties with students and faculty.

    NOTE: there are two major categories for the person delivering education in the college system in Ontario - "instructor" or "professor". It's been that way since the beginning (creation) of the college system in Ontario since the mid-1960's.

    Regarding your links - interesting thoughts about ones "personal" understanding. But never-the-less fact or simply ones belief. What about "technicians" and "support staff", chairs and deans? (None of these typically have teaching duties.) So unless one has a real understanding of the various roles and functions, has actually been in front of a college class, I can understand some misunderstandings. But than why take it to a "personal" naming me and that associated reference level?


  8. #203
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    Default Re: Which home inspection association should I join? ASHI or InterNACHI?

    Claude,

    I too was under the impression that instructors where grandfathered. (for lack of a better term).

    Well know I know too! And thats a good thing.

    Happy New Year.


  9. #204
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    Default Re: Which home inspection association should I join? ASHI or InterNACHI?

    Quote Originally Posted by Claude Lawrenson View Post
    Thanks Raymond - my understanding is that he named me and associated a "5 day Humber course" that he claimed I was associated with is what I see as the "false statement". He also claimed that "teachers were grandfathered as professors".

    Robert Y stated - "Raymond, to be fair to the statement, "become certified in as little as 5 days." if I am not mistaken Claude Lawrence was a professor at a school that did the exact same thing. wasn't it Humber College.
    Moreover, I think he had the title teacher as his official capacity until an Ontario grandfathering clause kicked in with all teachers being designated professors.The other thing I note is the the term professor would appear again by his comment to infer that professors were simply "teachers" grandfathered by title. Again I fail to see proof to support such as statement."

    Yes there are instructors in the college system as well as professors. In fact the instructor and professor titles have very distinct roles. Instructors cannot create curriculum, however they can deliver it under the guidance of a professor. Likewise a professor designs/creates, reviews and revises courses and curriculum in a program of study. The "university system" in Ontario is different when it comes to full time positions.

    As I stated, I was hired in 1988 as an instructor, and by completing further education and mandatory courses within my 2 year probationary period made it to position of professor. After I took further training to become a program coordinator, which simply reduced my schedule and take on more administrative duties with students and faculty.

    NOTE: there are two major categories for the person delivering education in the college system in Ontario - "instructor" or "professor". It's been that way since the beginning (creation) of the college system in Ontario since the mid-1960's.

    Regarding your links - interesting thoughts about ones "personal" understanding. But never-the-less fact or simply ones belief. What about "technicians" and "support staff", chairs and deans? (None of these typically have teaching duties.) So unless one has a real understanding of the various roles and functions, has actually been in front of a college class, I can understand some misunderstandings. But than why take it to a "personal" naming me and that associated reference level?
    Thank you Claude. I stand corrected. Claude Lawrence was the name I was referring to. I have mistakenly associated your name and his for too many years I confess.
    Ray, lend Claude that wet noodle to whip me with. That is once Lisa has finished. That's if she ever gets here.

    Looks like my assumptions require corrections utilizing real understanding of the various roles and functions of the above mentioned.

    Thank you for the much needed name clarification.

    Being hearing impaired is truly a regrettable experience.

    .

    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
    Our Motto; Putting information where you need it most, "In your hands.”

  10. #205
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    Mar 2009
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    Default Re: Which home inspection association should I join? ASHI or InterNACHI?

    Lisa Endza
    Director of Communication
    InterNACHI

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