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  1. #1
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    Default Finders, keepers

    I ran across this in the news today an thought of a previous inspectors scenario. It seems this contractor was cut from the same cloth.
    I guess if he "found" your wallet while you were out he would expect a finders fee, too!Contractor, owner feud over hidden cash - Yahoo! News

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    Jim Luttrall
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Finders, keepers

    "Kitts asserts he found lost money, and court rulings in Ohio establish that a "finders keepers" law applies if there's no reason to believe any owner will reappear to claim it."

    Guess he does not realize (but should as he is a contractor) that ownership of everything in the house goes with the house, and that was in the house, thus, the current owner is the 'owner' and I seriously doubt that there can be any misgivings that the 'owner' 'appeared and claimed it'.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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    Default Re: Finders, keepers



    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: Finders, keepers

    One note about this story, the contractor turned down a 10% finders fee that was offered!

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
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    Default Re: Finders, keepers

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall View Post
    . . . the contractor turned down a 10% finders fee that was offered!
    That leaves more for the actual owner.

    "Baseball is like church. Many attend but few understand." Leo Durocher
    Bruce Breedlove
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  6. #6
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    Default Re: Finders, keepers

    And with all that ill will the contractor has created with a longtime friend, you know the contractor is going to lose his butt on that job, because, now nothing less than perfection is going to do, and perfection is not going to be 'good enough' either.

    Not only is the contractor losing that 10% finders fee, they are losing a friend, and will be losing their shirt on that job, and with all that negative publicity, they may well find it hard to get other jobs.

    Oh well, that's greed for you.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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    Default Re: Finders, keepers

    I hope the guy gets lots of negative publicity. I'd bet the guy would scream bloody murder if someone found money in the walls of his home and claimed it for themselves. After all this commotion I hope he doesn't get a dime. What a greedy moron!

    Just think of the rant that I could have gone into if someone had asked for my opinion.

    Eric Barker, ACI
    Lake Barrington, IL

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    Default Re: Finders, keepers

    I cannot fathom what the difference is in a contractor “finding” anything of value within an attic space, buried in the crawls space, behind a dresser, or within a wall as booty to be shared by the home owner? “Ah greed, it knows no bounds too far to many folks.” Judge Judy

    Jerry McCarthy
    Building Code/ Construction Consultant

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Finders, keepers

    I think you folks have mixed up greed with theft, they are not one in the same although I am positive there are many here who think that their word should be viewed as law and any deviation is automatically relegated to evil.

    Greed may be distasteful to some but there is nothing criminal about exercising greed as long as it does not become outright theft as in the example of this contractor. He is not greedy he is plain & simple a thief.

    Greed is Good!


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Finders, keepers

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Burkeson View Post
    ... there is nothing criminal about exercising greed as long as it does not become outright theft as in the example of this contractor. He is not greedy he is plain & simple a thief.
    Joe,

    You are partially correct.

    You are totally correct in saying that he is a thief, but ... he is a wannabe thief, he did not steal it, he called the owner and is now trying to take some from the owner - that is greed.

    That contractor is greedy, which is what lead him to this point.

    Greed and theft go together hand in hand much of the time, as it did in this case - greed leading to a wannabe thief.

    BUT ... is that contractor actually a thief? No, he DID call the owner. I am sure that contractor now kicks himself for calling the owner, and (he says to himself) 'next time I won't call the owner' ... NEXT TIME ... he will be a thief. THIS TIME he is just a wannabe thief ... and is greedy.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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    Default Re: Finders, keepers

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    ----------- he DID call the owner.----------

    Let's not forget Arrogant Pride.

    LOOK What I Got.

    More likely Outraged and Indignant at the Home Owners rightful claim.

    "Why Without Me!"


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    Default Re: Finders, keepers

    This contractor guy can dance around the issue all day but the point is this was not his home and anything that he finds there belongs to the homeowner even though the homeower may not be aware of it.

    Its no different when we go in to a home and maybe find something that someone has hid and the past and whatever reason it is still there. It is not ours for just finding it or just because we can maybe take it and no one will know about it.

    I think people have forgot the golden rule.

    rick


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    Default Re: Finders, keepers

    I remember one of the rules: Baseball is wrong; man with four balls cannot walk.

    Eric Barker, ACI
    Lake Barrington, IL

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    Cool Re: Finders, keepers

    If that were me I would have took the money out of the wall with the rest of the debris and throw it in my truck and disposed of it, just like the home owner paid me to do.


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    Default Re: Finders, keepers

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Mount View Post
    If that were me I would have took the money out of the wall with the rest of the debris and throw it in my truck and disposed of it, just like the home owner paid me to do.
    Tony,

    ???? It was a set-up!

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    Default Re: Finders, keepers

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Stephens View Post
    Let's not forget Arrogant Pride.

    Is that another one of your "made up" thought crimes, cause I can't find any real criminal code to go along with the supposed offense if it really is one.

    Your hatred of freedom & liberty is undeniable, hard to believe you would want to be a home inspector when your politics so qualify you to be a waterboard interrogator. It is a good thing for all of us that you are only a legend in your own mind.


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    Default Re: Finders, keepers

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Burkeson View Post
    Is that another one of your "made up" thought crimes, cause I can't find any real criminal code to go along with the supposed offense if it really is one.

    Your hatred of freedom & liberty is undeniable, hard to believe you would want to be a home inspector when your politics so qualify you to be a waterboard interrogator. It is a good thing for all of us that you are only a legend in your own mind.

    Joe,

    You can not Mandate Morality. Each must decide that for themselfs.

    7 Signs You Have An Inferiority Complex

    Last edited by Billy Stephens; 12-17-2007 at 06:17 PM. Reason: corrected: themself
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    Default Re: Finders, keepers

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Mount View Post
    If that were me I would have took the money out of the wall ... throw it in my truck ...
    Tony,

    We ALL have NO DOUBT that is exactly what you would have done ... again.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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    Default Re: Finders, keepers

    .
    ..
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Mount View Post
    If that were me I would have took the money out of the wall with the rest of the debris and throw it in my truck and disposed of it, just like the home owner paid me to do.
    ..
    .

    Last edited by Jerry Peck; 12-17-2007 at 06:34 PM. Reason: so it is all Tony's words
    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  20. #20
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    Default Re: Finders, keepers

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Stephens View Post
    Each must decide that for them selfs.


    Great command of the English language you have there Dr. Billy, with such erudite pearls of wisdom like that you will undoubtedly raise your level of street creed with the hoi polloi around here.

    Some more signs for you to ponder.

    Last edited by Deleted Account; 12-17-2007 at 06:11 PM. Reason: Added Dr. Billy's link, just in case he decided to erase it. :)

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    Default Re: Finders, keepers

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Burkeson View Post
    Great command of the English language you have there Dr. Billy, with such erudite pearls of wisdom like that you will undoubtedly raise your level of street creed with the hoi polloi around here.

    Some more signs for you to ponder.
    Joe,


    Thanks for the spelling correction.

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    Default Re: Finders, keepers

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Stephens View Post
    Joe,


    Thanks for the spelling correction.


    No problemo Billy, your secret is safe with me.

    The Future of Freedom Foundation - Andrew Napolitano

    Last edited by Deleted Account; 12-17-2007 at 07:20 PM.

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    Default Re: Finders, keepers

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph

    [URL="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=GXzUL9KkgvA&feature=related"
    The Future of Freedom Foundation[/url] - Andrew Napolitano
    Joe,

    Stamp Act, FISA COURT ?

    Are You Looking Over Your Shoulder For Something?


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    Last edited by Billy Stephens; 12-17-2007 at 11:03 PM.
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  24. #24
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    Default Re: Finders, keepers

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Stephens View Post
    Are You Looking Over Your Shoulder For Something?

    Only a fool wouldn't be, with the state of our administration and you misanthropes down on your knees licking legislator's jackboots in a vain attempt to secure nationwide home inspector licensing at any cost.


    Karen Kwiatkowski at FFF Conference 2007, Part 1 of 4


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    Default Re: Finders, keepers

    Jerry, I think it is great how you can take a man's quote and change it to a miss quote just to please yourself. Everyone can plainly see how you distorted my quote to make it different than the original. There you all go again, The contractor did not have to tell the owner anything about the money. He was hired to remove and dispose of the wall and that is A LOT DIFFERENT FROM A HOME INSPECTION (Rick H). The contractor was under NO obligation to tell the owner anything about what was in the wall. The contractor was contracted to dispose of the debrie in any way he wanted to. Just because it was not worthless insulation which the owner did not care about, why should the contractor tell the owner about 3 metal boxes. I bet all you miss quoters if contracted to tear out hard wood flooring or other expensive materials from an building would not keep it either. I bet the contractor can win this because once he removed it, it became the possition of the contractor to do with what he pleased. What pleased him was to share the profits with the owner who became greedy and wanted it all for himself or herself. I got $10 on the contractor to win if he in fact removed the money from the wall.


  26. #26
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    Default Re: Finders, keepers

    This is quite an interesting thread that took some curious turns.

    First: I think that's a misuse of the work misanthrope. Moliere's Misanthrope would never lick the boots of any legislator.

    Secondly. I found a box once. Rolls of collector's out of circulation coins and 2 flint lock pistols. Around 50K total value. Sigh, I gave it to the owner who had no clue. I don't recall a thank you, but what the heck . . .
    My code enforcement sister found a 1950's vintage Lionel train set still in the wrapper in an abandoned house. She actually tracked down the last owner to give to them. I doubt I would have gone that far.

    JLMathis


  27. #27
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    Default Re: Finders, keepers

    Tony, intentionally concealing something that the contractor knew was valuable would be theft to anyone with common sense.
    I am not a betting man, but I would guess ANY judge, and most juries (except maybe the one in O.J.'s murder trial) would decide in favor of the home OWNER.
    You are on the loosing end of this conversation and since it is open for all to see, I would suggest you stop posting and maybe even remove the posts you have made on this subject before you destroy any credibility in the eyes of your potential customers who might be researching you on-line.
    Anyone who takes the position you have espoused here gives a black eye to the entire profession, myself included, and that disheartens me. Most inspectors here try to raise the standard of knowledge and ethics in the eyes of the consumer, have you done that?

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Dallas, Texas

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    Default Re: Finders, keepers

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Mount View Post
    Jerry, I think it is great how you can take a man's quote and change it to a miss quote just to please yourself. Everyone can plainly see how you distorted my quote to make it different than the original. There you all go again, The contractor did not have to tell the owner anything about the money. He was hired to remove and dispose of the wahinll and that is A LOT DIFFERENT FROM A HOME INSPECTION (Rick H). The contractor was under NO obligation to tell the owner anything about what was in the wall. The contractor was contracted to dispose of the debrie in any way he wanted to. Just because it was not worthless insulation which the owner did not care about, why should the contractor tell the owner about 3 metal boxes. I bet all you miss quoters if contracted to tear out hard wood flooring or other expensive materials from an building would not keep it either. I bet the contractor can win this because once he removed it, it became the possition of the contractor to do with what he pleased. What pleased him was to share the profits with the owner who became greedy and wanted it all for himself or herself. I got $10 on the contractor to win if he in fact removed the money from the wall.
    AH COME ON TONY!

    I tried to warn you so I wouldn't have to hear you wine on & on.

    I saved your entire Post's.

    Please let this GO!






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  29. #29
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    Default Re: Finders, keepers

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Mount View Post
    Jerry, I think it is great how you can take a man's quote and change it to a miss quote just to please yourself. . . . I bet all you miss quoters . . .
    Is that anything like misquote and misquoting?

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  30. #30
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    Default Re: Finders, keepers

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Mount View Post
    Jerry, I think it is great how you can take a man's quote and change it to a miss quote just to please yourself. Everyone can plainly see how you distorted my quote to make it different than the original.
    Tony, I didn't mis-quote you. I quoted you and left out the incorrect part you put in there ...

    "If that were me I would have took the money out of the wall ... throw it in my truck ..."

    I also posted your full quote, which was:
    "If that were me I would have took the money out of the wall with the rest of the debris and throw it in my truck and disposed of it, just like the home owner paid me to do."

    Calling "money" "debris" is so far from reality that, well, you will be left there standing alone trying to explain it to everyone else.

    Then saying that the "home owner paid" you do take the money and put it in your truck is, well ... that is just so far fetched that I doubt even you believe yourself.

    The contractor did not have to tell the owner anything about the money.
    He ABSOLUTELY DID need to tell the owner.

    He was hired to remove and dispose of the wall and that is A LOT DIFFERENT FROM A HOME INSPECTION (Rick H). The contractor was under NO obligation to tell the owner anything about what was in the wall. The contractor was contracted to dispose of the debrie in any way he wanted to.
    There you go again, referring to "money" as "debris".

    Okay, I'll cut to the chase on this.

    1) YOU are calling the "money" "debris".

    2) Okay, for this exercise we will refer to that "money" as "debris"

    3) So, for this exercise, you were being paid to take all that "debris" to the dump. RIGHT?

    4) So, based on the above ... YOU *WOULD NOT* (that's right *W-O-U-L-D N-O-T) keep the "debris" (i.e., "money") and you would take *ALL* (including that "debris" "money") to the dump and dispose of it.

    5) RIGHT?

    Tony? Tony? You there Tony? Did I catch in you your twisted words? Either it *IS* "debris" or it *IS NOT*. If it *IS*, you would dispose of it, if it *IS NOT* you would keep it, and, if you kept it (like you said you would), the it *IS NOT* "debris".

    Which all boils down to ... if it is not "debris" then you need to advise the owner that you found it.

    Only a thief would do otherwise. Are you one? (Not accusing you, just asking for clarification.)

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  31. #31
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    Default Re: Finders, keepers

    I want to say that when I first went to this thread I had a sense it would be interesting. I had no idea it would be this much.
    Jim is correct about "all to see". I once googled my name and a thread I had commented on, came up. So any of you that think you are talking behind your clients, or future clients backs, are mistaken.
    I am amazed that there is any doubt this contractor is a wannabe thief. What's to stop him, or anyone like him, from rummaging (two m's or one?) through the house.
    I agree with Jerry. The guy is a loser. He saw that someone else has something he wants and he is going after it. Greed! And if he gets it, he's a thief. This is not a Communist society, we don't share the wealth. Although that hits on another issue all together, just apply that comment to this issue.


  32. #32
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    Default Re: Finders, keepers

    WoW, in all the time I have been doing home inspections, I haven't found any money or bodies in the attic or crawl space, and man I am so thankful I haven't. But like someone else said, the golden rule is always best used in most decisions.

    Have a Merry Christmas to all and a Happy New Year.

    Ken


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    Talking Re: Finders, keepers

    One mans trash is another mans treasure. A friend of mine recently removed a whole house of window frames that was 1 3/4 inches thick and 6 inches wide most over 8 feet long. The frames was made of teak wood which can not be imported into the USA. He sold the wood for a large sum of money. I would still like to hear the results of the posted story


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    Default Re: Finders, keepers

    Here's a story from Canada on the subject:

    Professor Stepan Wood and Finders Keepers, Losers Weepers


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    Default Re: Finders, keepers

    Rick,

    Yep, that's what I'm talking about.

    "

    While building a driveway on Wenner's ranch in 1996, construction worker Gregory Corliss found a jar of 96 gold coins. The coins, dated between 1857 and 1914, were rumoured to be worth up to $1 million. Corliss handed the jar to his boss, who gave it to Wenner. Corliss later sued Wenner for the coins.

    A three-judge panel of the Idaho Court of Appeals affirmed a district court ruling that Corliss wasn't entitled to the coins. The state is not one "that accepts the finders-keepers rule, also known as treasure trove."

    An Ontario court would likely have also ruled that Corliss couldn't keep the coins, says University of Toronto property law professor Jim Phillips. "In some cases, the occupier of the land is considered to have a better claim than the finder." Not only did the land belong to Wenner, but Corliss was working for Wenner when he found the coins. "If you find something in the course of your employment, the title goes to the employer," Phillips says.
    "

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  36. #36
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    Default Re: Finders, keepers

    Yesterday I was planting a tree in the yard and the next door neighbors 7 yr. old came over to watch. He wanted to help dig, I gave him a shovel and let him help.

    I have become like the neighborhood grand-father to some of these kids because some of them come from divorced parents and don't even know who their grandparents are. I like the idea myself as I yet have no grandkids of our own.

    After a little bit, Jared starts digging a hole in the yard near me but not where I'm planting the tree. I just let him go after it cause I going to be covering that area with mulch anyway.

    As he was digging he said maybe we would find a treasure chest.

    I thought about this thread and posed him this question.

    Jared, if you found a treasure chest there what would you do with it?

    His reply.

    Mr. Rick, it would be yours cause its your yard.

    I couldn't help but smile thinking a child has the wisdom of what is truly right and wrong. Its when we become adults that we let greed influence doing the right thing.


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    Thumbs down Re: Finders, keepers

    Wrong Jerry It was trash and instructed to be removed, so it was abandoned like the coffee cup.


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    Default Re: Finders, keepers

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Hurst View Post
    I couldn't help but smile thinking a child has the wisdom of what is truly right and wrong. Its when we become adults that we let greed influence doing the right thing.
    Amen, Rick.

    Jim Luttrall
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  39. #39
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    Default Re: Finders, keepers

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Hurst View Post
    Yesterday I was planting a tree in the yard and...

    I couldn't help but smile thinking a child has the wisdom of what is truly right and wrong. Its when we become adults that we let greed influence doing the right thing.


    Rick,

    When you plant those deep thoughts is it the depth or the spacing that matters?


    Christmas Cheer - Joe.


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    Default Re: Finders, keepers

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Mount View Post
    Wrong Jerry It was trash and instructed to be removed, so it was abandoned like the coffee cup.
    Tony,

    What make you think that something which was *TIED UP AND SAVED* is "trash"?

    You sound like you are now trying to defend your actions and above post saying you would steal the "goods".

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  41. #41
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    Post Re: Finders, keepers

    I've kept silent on the subject until now, but I'm getting tired of hearing from Tony. Sounds like he's the type of guy who would take candy from a baby and not feel bad about it.

    The contractor is not entitled to the money that he found. If I were the homeowner, I would be very generous to hime for being honest, but he would not be entitled to it.

    Don't want to be a Bible thumper here or infringe on anyone elses religious beliefs, but there is a story in the Bible about this subject:

    Matt 13:44"The kingdom of heaven is like a treasure hidden in the field, which a man found and hid again; and from joy over it he goes and sells all that he has and buys that field.

    My take on this passage is that only after the person has purchased the property that the treasure was found on would he be entitled to it. Even then, to purchase it without disclosing that you know that it is there would give question to your integrity.

    As far as it being trash and the contractor being paid to discard the trash, would the owner consider it to be trash if she knew that it was there. The fact that she was was ignorant of the fact that it was there does not mean that she is not the owner. I think that it did show honesty on behalf of the contractor to notify the owner and give it to her, but he is not entitled to it. If you are paid to rip out and dispose of hard wood floors that the owner no longer wants but choose to sell them instead as salvage, in my opinion, you did nothing wrong. The owner knew of the condition of the floors and wanted something different. You are being paid to provide that "something different". If you found a safe hidden under the floor and kept it for yourself, then you are wrong.


  42. #42
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    Default Re: Finders, keepers

    Not that many here care, but if you want to be pissed off over theft then watch this. America: Freedom to Fascism


  43. #43
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Knoxville, TN
    Posts
    2,332

    Default Re: Finders, keepers

    Not sure how all these rules go.

    IN case this ever happens...I need some direction

    Foreclosure property.....

    Inspecting for potential buyer....

    Find a wad of cash under the house among huge pile of construction debris...

    Client doesn't buy the house.......

    Bank that owns the house is out of state and didn't manage to turn on the utilities even after many calls to ensure they would be on....

    That didn't happen, but I did find a quarter the other day in the street when I got out of my truck....I kept it.
    JF


  44. #44
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Mustang
    Posts
    215

    Thumbs down Re: Finders, keepers

    Sorry Jack your FUBAR, I posted the same thing as yours and theses suckers never gave me a chance.


  45. #45
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    Default Re: Finders, keepers

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Feldmann View Post
    That didn't happen, but I did find a quarter the other day in the street when I got out of my truck....I kept it.

    Taj Mahal Stealin'


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