Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 66 to 79 of 79
  1. #66
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    25,892

    Default Re: Washington Post article: Home Inspectors can go too far.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Feldmann View Post
    Could you elaborate on this policy?
    Jack.

    Her responses are like the NAHI thing ... first, they claim that Nick took over NAHI ... then that Nick is suing NAHI ... then that NAHI is dead ... that all indicates that Nick was so bad at running NAHI that it died at his hands - but they will tell you a different story, depending on what they want you to believe or think at the time.

    The same thing applies here - it all depends on what they want you to believe or think at the time of the posts, without apparent respect for tying the information together in any coherent manner or where it does not contradict itself.

    Elite MGA Home Inspector E&O Insurance
    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  2. #67
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    885

    Default Re: Washington Post article: Home Inspectors can go too far.

    If I was a client, and received a document that called out an expected life of a gas furnace (as an example), and my house had a gas furnace, and my inspector told me how old it was (most inspectors make a note of equipment age, or include a photo of the label), I could easily do the math an determine something was at the end of its life.
    Correct. That's what we want them to do, if they want to. This is a much better option than the InterNACHI member doing the impossible and guestimating how long something will last, which only leads to the consumer complaining when the guestimate is wrong (which it always is).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Her responses are like the NAHI thing ... first, they claim that Nick took over NAHI ... then that Nick is suing NAHI ... then that NAHI is dead.
    No, we said that Nick is Executive Director of NAHI... he is.
    We said that InterNACHI sued NAHI... they did.
    We said that NAHI is dead... it is.

    Lisa Endza
    Director of Communication
    InterNACHI

  3. #68
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    25,892

    Default Re: Washington Post article: Home Inspectors can go too far.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lisa Endza View Post
    No, we said that Nick is Executive Director of NAHI... he is.
    We said that InterNACHI sued NAHI... they did.
    We said that NAHI is dead... it is.
    I repeat - with your quote above - and you don't see the contradiction in what you said?

    Really?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  4. #69
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Knoxville, TN
    Posts
    2,412

    Default Re: Washington Post article: Home Inspectors can go too far.

    Lisa said....."Correct. That's what we want them to do, if they want to. This is a much better option than the InterNACHI member doing the impossible and guestimating how long something will last, which only leads to the consumer complaining when the guestimate is wrong (which it always is)."

    Lisa, This is where I am confused. If I tell my client that the average life of a gas furnace is U - Z years (Like your chart does), and their unit is is Y years old, how am I doing anything different than your InterNACHI inspector giving them your handout?

    Why is what I am doing "impossible and guesstimating"? Isn't your chart "guesstimating". If so, InterNACHI is guilty of doing the impossible and guesstimating, and if it isn't guesstimating, then are you telling someone when a piece of equipment is nearing the end of its expected service life? And, then isn't that against the InterNACHI SOP?

    Do you understand my confusion? It appears to me to be a contradiction, and/or mixed message. At the very least, a very unclear message / policy.


  5. #70
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    885

    Default Re: Washington Post article: Home Inspectors can go too far.

    Why is what I am doing "impossible and guesstimating"? Isn't your chart "guesstimating".
    No.

    When you are on an inspection at a particular home with a particular client looking at a particular system or component, you are guesstimating life expectancy of that system or component. And you're almost never going to be correct.

    InterNACHI's third-party, pre-authored, pre-printed chart is clearly not referencing anyone's particular system or component. It's providing average life expectancies. And so you're never going to be wrong.

    It being a pre-authored, pre-printed chart is what makes that very evident to the consumer so that they don't blame you for inaccuracy.

    It's analogous to trying to predict exactly when a particular 75 year-old man will die as opposed to pointing to a chart that reveals the life expectancy of 75-year old men.

    See the difference yet?

    Lisa Endza
    Director of Communication
    InterNACHI

  6. #71
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    25,892

    Default Re: Washington Post article: Home Inspectors can go too far.

    Jack,

    Lisa is saying (admitting) that no knowledge (generic gobbly-gook) is, in their opinion, better than knowledge.

    You will never win an argument against lack of knowledge like that.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  7. #72
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Knoxville, TN
    Posts
    2,412

    Default Re: Washington Post article: Home Inspectors can go too far.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lisa Endza View Post
    No.

    When you are on an inspection at a particular home with a particular client looking at a particular system or component, you are guesstimating life expectancy of that system or component. And you're almost never going to be correct.

    InterNACHI's third-party, pre-authored, pre-printed chart is clearly not referencing anyone's particular system or component. It's providing average life expectancies. And so you're never going to be wrong.

    It being a pre-authored, pre-printed chart is what makes that very evident to the consumer so that they don't blame you for inaccuracy.

    It's analogous to trying to predict exactly when a particular 75 year-old man will die as opposed to pointing to a chart that reveals the life expectancy of 75-year old men.

    See the difference yet?
    I'll try once again.... First of all, its quite simple to determine the age of the equipment that is installed at the property (most of the time), since many times the actual date is printed on the label. Second, since I am giving my clients the same information (sort of) of average life that you are. For instance a gas furnace expected life is X - Y years. How is that different than what you are proposing?

    The second part of my question was not answered. I asked..."So, is the inspector violating the InterNACHI SOP's by giving out the document, or in fact telling the client about expected life, without actually telling them? I'm very confused about INterNACHI's policy on this."

    It seems like a contradiction in your SOP, and what Mr. Fish was saying inspectors should never do. Is he giving out incorrect information, when he is acting as a spokesman for InterNACHI?


  8. #73
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    120

    Default Re: Washington Post article: Home Inspectors can go too far.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Feldmann View Post
    I'll try once again.... First of all, its quite simple to determine the age of the equipment that is installed at the property (most of the time), since many times the actual date is printed on the label. Second, since I am giving my clients the same information (sort of) of average life that you are. For instance a gas furnace expected life is X - Y years. How is that different than what you are proposing?

    The second part of my question was not answered. I asked..."So, is the inspector violating the InterNACHI SOP's by giving out the document, or in fact telling the client about expected life, without actually telling them? I'm very confused about INterNACHI's policy on this."

    It seems like a contradiction in your SOP, and what Mr. Fish was saying inspectors should never do. Is he giving out incorrect information, when he is acting as a spokesman for InterNACHI?
    she's not going to get it......she'll never get it.....you are having a argument with someone who has no idea what you are talking about. You are not even having the conversation with Lisa. You ask the question, and she runs back to whoever for an answer.......

    Florida's first and only open wind mitigation forum:

    www.askwindmitigationman.com

  9. #74
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    2,705

    Default Re: Washington Post article: Home Inspectors can go too far.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Sheppard View Post
    ........You are not even having the conversation with Lisa. You ask the question, and she runs back to whoever for an answer.......
    By George I think you've got it. Hit the nail on the head. May be an intern or a homeless person at the keyboard.


  10. #75
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    so so, California
    Posts
    1,764

    Default Re: Washington Post article: Home Inspectors can go too far.

    Friggin realtors... Idiots.

    The MAZZA INSPECTION GROUP
    www.mazzainspections.com
    Level III Thermo-picture-taker-er...er

  11. #76
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    MONTREAL QUEBEC-CANADA
    Posts
    1,674

    Default Re: Washington Post article: Home Inspectors can go too far.

    I was going to post this article. Seeing how it is taken I am happy I did not.

    I fail to see why Lisa is again the target of three men.

    Robert S. You provided Florida DEPARTMENT OF BUSINESS AND PROFESSIONAL REGULATION SOP.Does Florida's SOP supersede North America's 51 States and 11 provinces association SOP?

    Lisa is correct, we do not predict. How can we?
    Are you suggesting an appliance or system that has been poorly maintained, YET made to look maintained during the sale will last it's intended life cycle?

    Life cycles. AC/Air Conditioners in cool/cold climates appear out preform their cycle as compared to AC units in warn/hot climates under normal use.
    Water heaters will last much longer when maintained.
    Oldest water heater I observed, 1923. Retrofit to NG. A museum piece and still operational.

    IMO, the age of an item, serial number, if recalls are in-place, combined with a link to material life expectancy and cost works for me. By providing age, condition and a link to average life cycle I feel provides enough information to the clients.

    Jack F., how can/does a home inspector scrutinize a near of end life to a component? Most home inspectors are not technicians nor trades professionals. By giving remarks pertaining to the life cycle is in essence predicting, or looking into the future.

    Last edited by ROBERT YOUNG; 05-11-2017 at 04:42 AM. Reason: spelling error
    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
    Our Motto; Putting information where you need it most, "In your hands.

  12. #77
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    2,705

    Default Re: Washington Post article: Home Inspectors can go too far.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lisa Endza View Post
    ........

    InterNACHI's third-party, pre-authored, pre-printed chart ....... And so you're never going to be wrong.

    It being a pre-authored, pre-printed chart ......so that they don't blame you for inaccuracy.

    ..........

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Feldmann View Post
    ............ since I am giving my clients the same information (sort of) ........ How is that different than what you are proposing?

    .............."So, is the inspector violating the InterNACHI SOP's by giving out the document, or in fact telling the client about expected life, without actually telling them? .......

    ...........
    Jack,
    You are looking for logic and honesty where there is none.

    The NACHE intent in this particular handout appears purposeful to relieve the HI from liability by shifting any conclusions to be drawn to the "client". Pretty much it is another method to allow the "Certified" members to claim that the "client" is responsible for what ever inference that they make by relying on a nebulous chart rather than the experience of their payed HI. Another method to allow for the appearance of an "experienced professional" without being one.


    The document that they are using, like most that I have seen including their own authored articles/documents which they use to support their own authored articles/documents, do not list any supporting citations or references of who, how and where the basis for their presumed expertise were derived not to mention their conclusions.

    Credible authors site their supporting citations and references. Consistently I see a lack of professionalism in their articles, documents, material offered as books, pamphlets, charts or even their educational formats.


    Quote Originally Posted by ROBERT YOUNG View Post
    I was going to post this article. Seeing how it is taken I am happy I did not.

    I fail to see why Lisa is again the target of three men.

    .....................
    Robert,
    Maybe you should have posrted the link/article. Even if it may have been a carryover from an association's forum. The thread may have taken a different direction, or not.

    WHY????? Targeting???
    You seem to think there is some kind of sexual discrimination taking place. Which seems at times to be the first fall back position to redirect attention when someone can not support a position or statement.

    The question of Lisa's gender has often been questioned as has been the actual authoring of posts in Lisa's name.

    You deem it targeting by "men", when it is actually a changeling discussion by Home Inspectors, Engineers, building professionals and others with years of actual hands on experience in many areas which make them truly "Professionals". Those profesionals that will not accept on blind faith the utterances of any one person or organization. Those that look to logic and substance to support a position or argument.

    No, it is not targeting. It is more of the adage; "If you cant take the heat get out of the kitchen.". All that enter the forum are subject to the same questioning. If nothing else the forum is very democratic. Anyone's ox is subject to being gored yet they also are subject to adulation and praise. Equal opprotunity forum.

    Though forum members and guests may not be from the "Show-ME State" (Missouri) the concept is held by many though sadly not all.


  13. #78
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    120

    Default Re: Washington Post article: Home Inspectors can go too far.

    Quote Originally Posted by ROBERT YOUNG View Post
    I was going to post this article. Seeing how it is taken I am happy I did not.

    I fail to see why Lisa is again the target of three men.

    Robert S. You provided Florida DEPARTMENT OF BUSINESS AND PROFESSIONAL REGULATION SOP.Does Florida's SOP supersede North America's 51 States and 11 provinces association SOP?

    Lisa is correct, we do not predict. How can we?
    Are you suggesting an appliance or system that has been poorly maintained, YET made to look maintained during the sale will last it's intended life cycle?

    Life cycles. AC/Air Conditioners in cool/cold climates appear out preform their cycle as compared to AC units in warn/hot climates under normal use.
    Water heaters will last much longer when maintained.
    Oldest water heater I observed, 1923. Retrofit to NG. A museum piece and still operational.

    IMO, the age of an item, serial number, if recalls are in-place, combined with a link to material life expectancy and cost works for me. By providing age, condition and a link to average life cycle I feel provides enough information to the clients.

    Jack F., how can/does a home inspector scrutinize a near of end life to a component? Most home inspectors are not technicians nor trades professionals. By giving remarks pertaining to the life cycle is in essence predicting, or looking into the future.
    In our state, yes! That was the point.

    Lisa makes no sense.....the document was produced to take the heat off of their inspectors? Tell me again how inachi is legally liable for ANY home inspection performed by one of their inspectors?

    If they would like to assume that liability.....now that's another story. If they are legally liable for the inspections their members perform, we have a slight issue with conflict of interest in the buy-back program.

    Last edited by Robert Sheppard; 05-11-2017 at 01:05 PM.
    Florida's first and only open wind mitigation forum:

    www.askwindmitigationman.com

  14. #79
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    25,892

    Default Re: Washington Post article: Home Inspectors can go too far.

    Now Robert, calm down, you know that nothing out of that company (they try to make people think it is an association of its members, but it is privately owned by one person, so I call it what it is - a company) ... nothing out of that company is to be taken seriously.

    If the inspector hands something out ... that inspector is responsible for what they hand out ... plain and simply.

    No different than if the inspector was to hand out acid laced chewing gum - the inspector would be liable for that too.

    It is all just smoke and mirrors over there, look closely and you will find that guy 'behind the curtain' making all the moves ... as the old movie said 'pay no attention to that person behind the curtain' ... so says the All Powerful Wizard of Oz ... follow the yellow brick road to riches is what they profess. The Wicked Witch of the West is always just around the corner to scare the bejesus out of you.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •