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  1. #1
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    Default Why do SOP requirements differ?

    I am wondering why the ASHI SOP reqiuires HI's to describe some systems and components in their reports, but the CREIA SOP has no such requirements?
    If a HI describes something incorrectly ( like a roof covering ) can't that cause them potential problems or possibly cost them a lot of money?
    Do HI's normaly describe what materials are used for drain piping, water supply piping? Is it ok to describe certain things and not others? For example; describing what type of HVAC units but not what the ductwork is made out of?

    What do you describe

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    Red face Re: Why do SOP requirements differ?

    Anybody? I guess those questions are kinda strange. Or stupid. I don't believe that there is no such thing as a stupid question. I think that there are a lot of questions in my mind that I should be able figure out for myself. Perhaps these are of that kind,eh? No need to answer that!


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    Default Re: Why do SOP requirements differ?

    Elizabeth
    if you take time to find & read trec sop
    what is required are a number of the items you ask about & you'll see others that will shock you or most others around the country...ie mandatory tprv operation unless there is a "valid reason" not to...nothing ambiguous there & yes they can/will fine if they get a complaint
    https://www.trec.texas.gov/renew-license/inspector

    badair http://www.adairinspection.com Garland, TX 75042 TREC # 4563
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    Default Re: Why do SOP requirements differ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth Chambers View Post
    I am wondering why the ASHI SOP reqiuires HI's to describe some systems and components in their reports, but the CREIA SOP has no such requirements?
    If a HI describes something incorrectly ( like a roof covering ) can't that cause them potential problems or possibly cost them a lot of money?
    Do HI's normaly describe what materials are used for drain piping, water supply piping? Is it ok to describe certain things and not others? For example; describing what type of HVAC units but not what the ductwork is made out of?

    What do you describe
    E,

    Since you are not in Texas and not subject to TREC, then you are not subject to their rules. Currently, CA is largely unregulated, so you can do as much or as little as you choose. As with many things, regulation is a double-edged sword. Too much regulation can restrict innovation and improvement. No regulation can allow inspectors to do the least possible. What keeps inspectors honest is the threat of lawsuits and their own integrity.

    ASHI's SOPs are pretty specific. Material type, method of inspection, locations, condition, etc. CREIA's SOPs are much looser and just define what needs to be inspected, not how to inspect. However, to let your client know that you are doing your job, it might be best to note material type instead of just stating serviceable/acceptable/operable (or whatever) when there is no significant problem with it.

    I try to describe material type in most cases (siding material, piping material, roof material, etc.) but I don't describe things like wall material (drywall or plaster). In many cases, older homes will have a mix of plaster and drywall. I don't see the point in verifying between them.

    I feel that it is necessary to provide as much information as I can, without bogging clients down with useless drivel. Be careful of drivel.

    I suggest getting ahold of reports from local colleagues. That will help to let you know what the local "standards of care" in report writing are.

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    Default Re: Why do SOP requirements differ?

    Thank's guys.


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    Default Re: Why do SOP requirements differ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth Chambers View Post
    I am wondering why the ASHI SOP reqiuires HI's to describe some systems and components in their reports, but the CREIA SOP has no such requirements?

    What do you describe
    My take, ASHI is national voluntary standard created by ASHI to set a higher standard for their members when there was no national standard. Heck, there was no national code back then, There are lots of other more local standards, no standards, and some requirements with the force of law.
    I'm sure CREIA was an amalgamation of everything else that was out there when it was created.
    If CREIA simply adopted ASHI standard they likely would have had copy right issues. Bottom line is there are lots of reasons for having different standards. I don't have to worry about it since my standard is mandated by the state. All I have to do is worry when they try to change things which happens with great frequency.

    Jim Luttrall
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    Default Re: Why do SOP requirements differ?

    And SoPs should be treated like codes - they are minimums, not 'feel good', 'do better', or 'best practices' guides, simply the least one is permitted to do and say that they are a member of such and such association or are licensed by such and such a state.

    Granted, Texas went way overkill, and in my opinion, not necessary in a good way either.

    Now, if only Texas would make their contractor and code inspector licensing and standards (codes) as restrictive as they did for home inspectors ... but they allow crap to go on, then expect home inspectors to write up what is not even required to be done by the contractors ... total ash-backward.

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    Default Re: Why do SOP requirements differ?

    ASHI also updates their SOP every few years, and the SOP went through a fairly large update in 2016. Any change to the SOP requires a the SOP to go out for public comment and then those changes must be voted on by the ASHI membership, it is a long process. One of reasons for the public comment is that the ASHI SOP is also used by several States home inspector license boards, many use a sanitized version with all references about ASHI having been removed by ASHI for the States.

    I do not know when CREIA last updated their SOP but I'm sure they follow a similar process.

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    Default Re: Why do SOP requirements differ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall View Post
    I'm sure CREIA was an amalgamation of everything else that was out there when it was created.
    CREIA and ASHI both claim to be the oldest/first home inspector organization (both started in 1976). So, it's debatable as to who was the first to come up with SOPs. Certainly, ASHI is larger.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    I do not know when CREIA last updated their SOP but I'm sure they follow a similar process.
    To the best of my knowledge, the CREIA SOPs were last updated in 2011, but I could be mistaken. As far as I know, the state of California references CREIA's SOPs, but does not actually incorporate them into statute.

    But, I could be mistaken.

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    Default Re: Why do SOP requirements differ?

    My take regarding describing materials and systems, is simply to acknowledge what the inspector has inspected. I also believe that technical terms, can be simplified for our clients. Equally so do we really need to describe drywall as such or simply call it by it's generic name. Far too often I see posts about fire separations being called firewalls. Certainly I respect there may be some regional differences in terminology.

    Another point being education and knowledge acquired by the inspector through good instruction and better than minimal requirements for training hours. There is a reason that some trainers offer a 1 week course (say about 40 hours), and some offer 40 to 80 hours per building system, such as 80 hours for electrical, structures and so on.

    So in my view, inspectors need to consider how to provide a professional report. Most that I have seen seem to describe the system and certain components and report conditions (deficiencies), and better yet from a risk management POV, indicate the impact this has on the client.

    Again just my opinion!


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    Default Re: Why do SOP requirements differ?

    The inspector also needs to consider who is reading the report (who the report is really written for).

    The report is written for:
    - the client
    - the contractor
    - the attorney

    It is in the inspector's best interest to understand the above and write the report so all have the same understanding of what is written.

    Calling a separation wall a firewall can lead to two of the above realizing that the inspector doesn't really understand what they are looking at.

    And that doesn't help the other person listed above.

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    Default Re: Why do SOP requirements differ?

    35 states license home inspectors. There are several national and numerous state home inspector associations. Each has their own version of an SOP. If you operate in one of the 15 unlicensed states or parts of Canada, the home inspector gets to choose which of the various SOPs they would like to follow. All of them are basically very similar with the exclusion of Texas which everyone agrees has too many requirements.

    "The Code is not a peak to reach but a foundation to build from."

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    Default Re: Why do SOP requirements differ?

    I took the ASHI at Home Inspection Training Program. Passed with a 81% final grade.
    60 hrs Roofing
    66 hrs Structure
    60 hrs Electrical
    115 hrs Heating
    36 hrs AC
    81 hrs Plumbing
    36 hrs Exterior
    60 hrs Insulation and Interior
    40 hrs Communication and Professional Practice
    Took 31 final tests with a total of 1610 questions
    174 quick guizzes
    and completed 15 Field Exersizes (there were 38 but not feasable to ask that many people to let me in and out of thier homes so I could do them all)
    I have done one building phase inspection from the grading to complefed house.
    4 unpaid (mock) inspections that I performed per ASHI SOPs.
    The inspector who promised to mentor me has yet to call me for a ride along or any kind of memtoring at all.
    Now studying for the national test.
    I appreciate the input, it always helps me, thanks.


  14. #14
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    Default Re: Why do SOP requirements differ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth Chambers View Post
    I took the ASHI at Home Inspection Training Program. Passed with a 81% final grade.
    60 hrs Roofing
    66 hrs Structure
    60 hrs Electrical
    115 hrs Heating
    36 hrs AC
    81 hrs Plumbing
    36 hrs Exterior
    60 hrs Insulation and Interior
    40 hrs Communication and Professional Practice
    Took 31 final tests with a total of 1610 questions
    174 quick guizzes
    and completed 15 Field Exersizes (there were 38 but not feasable to ask that many people to let me in and out of thier homes so I could do them all)
    I have done one building phase inspection from the grading to complefed house.
    4 unpaid (mock) inspections that I performed per ASHI SOPs.
    The inspector who promised to mentor me has yet to call me for a ride along or any kind of memtoring at all.
    Now studying for the national test.
    I appreciate the input, it always helps me, thanks.
    Well congrats, you are on the right path. Mentoring and certainly where available actually being tested on ones field performance (in Canada we refer to it as TIPR) Test Inspection with Peer Review helps assure that the inspector is field ready to be certified and validated for performing and meeting the SOP. As one of a team of Examiners we often find that the weak point often is in the accuracy of reporting and compliance to the SOP.


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    Default Re: Why do SOP requirements differ?

    Why... thankyou very much Claude, I am at least smart enough to know that I won't be ready untill I get to attend inspections with some well established, computent HI's or I get a job at apprentice level with a home inspection company
    for a year or so. How would one get themselves field tested in my neck of the woods??

    Mabey I could go visit the Gunnars for a week or so and follow them around asking persistant, pestering questions all day long? HINT!!

    Off topic but too hot to sleep...
    A member here suggested I attend a few CREIA chapter meetings and get to know the membership. I agree and will do it eventually, however it's a 90 min round trip drive, 1/2 of it at night on one of the most dangerous 2 lane hiways in California.

    So, I have to work up the guts to do it, I have night or night headlight blindness that's pretty scary if I am not driving on a freeway. They sell special glasses for it for like $300.00 but need that to buy a good ladder! Anyway thank's for the congrats!

    Last edited by Elizabeth Chambers; 07-30-2018 at 02:57 AM.

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    Default Re: Why do SOP requirements differ?

    E,

    I didn't think you would be interested in coming this far from home. Yes, you are welcome. I will send you my phone number.

    G

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    Default Re: Why do SOP requirements differ?

    Sorry for bumping up this old thread but I wanted to add, though my training program was through ASHI, in actually all my training was done by Carson Dunlop, who does it for ASHI.
    ASHI had really nothing to do with it, only in name did they train.


  18. #18
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    Default Re: Why do SOP requirements differ?

    5:00 am???

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    Default Re: Why do SOP requirements differ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Alquist View Post
    5:00 am???
    My browser shows the post at 7:56 am?

    Gunnar, you have got to stay off that stuff ...

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  20. #20
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    Default Re: Why do SOP requirements differ?

    Mine says 4:56 am.

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  21. #21
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    Default Re: Why do SOP requirements differ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    My browser shows the post at 7:56 am?
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Alquist View Post
    Mine says 4:56 am.
    I guess our browsers are not talking the same time zone language?

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    Default Re: Why do SOP requirements differ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    I guess our browsers are not talking the same time zone language?
    Maybe the website corrects for the time difference between the left and right coast?

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    Default Re: Why do SOP requirements differ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Alquist View Post
    Maybe the website corrects for the time difference between the left and right coast?
    Everyone has time settings the board uses, those time settings are likely the difference, yes.

    Click on 'Settings' at the top, then in the left column go down to 'General Settings', then down to 'Date and Time.

    Mine are set to Eastern Time Zone (GMT-5 hours), you and Elizabeth are likely set to Pacific Time Zone (GMT-8 hours).

    Which would work out for you seeing 4:54 am and me seeing 7:54 am ... that 3 hour difference.

    I was thinking it would show the time posted based on the poster's settings (and retain that time for others to see), but it's apparently showing the time posted based on the viewer's time settings.

    My askcodeman.com has a 'Board' time setting, I think that applies to the board and is used, overriding a user time setting, to keep things consistent ... now I have something else to check ... whenever I get the time (pun intended).

    Last edited by Jerry Peck; 08-28-2019 at 09:13 AM. Reason: Speelin'
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    Default Re: Why do SOP requirements differ?

    Unless Elizabeth's is set to eastern time. Then she would be 3 hours off?

    I'm confused and it doesn't really matter anyway.

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    Default Re: Why do SOP requirements differ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Alquist View Post
    I'm confused and it doesn't really matter anyway.
    Does anybody really know what time it is?

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    Default Re: Why do SOP requirements differ?

    Chicago is one of my favorite bands.

    (does this cound as thread-drift?)

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    Default Re: Why do SOP requirements differ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Alquist View Post
    (does this cound as thread-drift?)
    Drift away.

    https://youtu.be/gr_eVcCAUXo

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    Default Re: Why do SOP requirements differ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Ya, that's the time that I was up browzing the site for old interesting informative posts. Sometimes I can't sleep or wake up and can't get back to sleep so I study. This place holds a ton of important, interesting, information about this biz...so ya.. I was up at what we call, "the crack" when I posted that. Pacific time.( short for the crack of dawn) no need to expand on that Gunnar..hahaa


  29. #29
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    Default Re: Why do SOP requirements differ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth Chambers View Post
    Ya, that's the time that I was up browzing the site for old interesting informative posts. Sometimes I can't sleep or wake up and can't get back to sleep so I study. This place holds a ton of important, interesting, information about this biz...so ya.. I was up at what we call, "the crack" when I posted that. Pacific time.( short for the crack of dawn) no need to expand on that Gunnar..hahaa

    If what you say is true, you need to consider another profession. If you are truly a study nerd, consider the building inspection industry....we need people who pursue knowledge and expertise.


    Better.....

    Last edited by Robert Sheppard; 09-01-2019 at 04:51 AM.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Why do SOP requirements differ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Sheppard View Post
    ... idiot mine fields ...
    Is that a typo I see in there?

    Did you intend that the center word was to have been "mine" or "mind"?

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    Default Re: Why do SOP requirements differ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Sheppard View Post
    If what you say is true, you need to consider another profession. If you are truly a study nerd, consider the building inspection industry....we need people who pursue knowledge and expertise.


    Better.....
    Do you mean code inspections on industrial buildings for the county or state? Or, do you mean as an independant contractor?


  32. #32
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    Default Re: Why do SOP requirements differ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth Chambers View Post
    Do you mean code inspections on industrial buildings for the county or state? Or, do you mean as an independant contractor?
    That would likely depend on how AHJ are done in CA.

    Likely city/county has their own inspection department.

    CA may, or may not, have a statute which allows for private providers for code inspections.

    Jerry Peck
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    Default Re: Why do SOP requirements differ?

    CREIA and ASHI both claim to be the oldest/first home inspector organization (both started in 1976). So, it's debatable as to who was the first to come up with SOPs. Certainly, ASHI is larger.
    Larger? They are both really tiny associations. They should merge.



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