Thread: I Need Your Help With This

Originally Posted by Jack Feldmann

Never heard of a 2.5 hour inspection? Most inspectors only doing one a day?
I've been doing two a day since 1989. While my average time is probably closer to 3 hours (for the average house), 2.5 hours is not beyond reason. I think the majority of inspectors do two a day (if they can), not one.

Those reports come across my desk once a month. None survived. I'll pass.

Steve;

You state repeatedly "my clients" and "my realtors". So it raises the question who you are working for. Do you work for your client, or do you work for their real estate agent? Do you understand the principle-agent relationship that is established when a client hires a home inspector? Do you understand the conflict of interest that exists where an agent employed by a principle appears to have a relationship with another agent of the principle, and the outcome of the work product of the first agent has the capacity to negatively or positively affect the finances of the second agent? In other words, it is not possible to serve two masters. As an agent employed by a client, your legal, ethical, and professional duty are to that client. No one else. Period. That is the point that was attempted, it seems. And it is a point that the profession will be forced to address, one way or another.

Do you work for your client, or do you work for their real estate agent? Do you understand the principle-agent relationship that is established when a client hires a home inspector? Do you understand the conflict of interest that exists where an agent employed by a principle appears to have a relationship with another agent of the principle, and the outcome of the work product of the first agent has the capacity to negatively or positively affect the finances of the second agent?

Randy:

These questions are too difficult for the Dawg to deal with. These might be easier for him:

I love my realtors and I go above and beyond to take care of them.

Does you wife know about this?

He has a colorful background, 10 years in the US Navy as an Engineer as well as 5 years on Wall Street as a commodities broker.

Exactly what home-building experience did you get at sea and on the Street?

I had a Pillar to Post franchise for 3 years and was trained by the best in the industry.

Really? And who might these franchisee inspector wanabees be?

The Dallas market is quite brisk compared with the remainder of the nation, yet inspections here are down about 20% from this time last year. How is it that the Dawg is still pumping out 2-3 per day all by his lonesome?

Is this the Kansas City Keller Williams Office Logo?

Sorry, Dawg, your just too easy a target to resist!

Aaron

I've been typing a report Jack but I'll take the bite away from the tread - this time.

As an example, an average of 600-700 inspectors leave the industry in Texas every year with an increase of that expected. Contributing to this (but not all) are the known 2.5 -3 hour inspections that do not comply with the minimum state inspection standards. I know this to be a fact based on the court cases and initial investigations that come across my desk. Yep, you guess it, I help sue real estate inspectors from a plaintiff's claim and more than a few of them make it too easy. I personally don't care whether a guy spends 2.5 or 3 hours in a property as the law of averages will soon catch up. The standards are so broad that things are missed and that helps with the exodus of inspectors. In states with no licensing or standards I appreciate the fact it is hard for another inspector to comprehend what we may describe as professional inspectors so don't bash Aaron blindly. Although I don't know him personally I do know he has the reputation and "page full" of credentials that many inspectors envy. Myself and many others use a varied peer group review process on a monthly basis as we not so lame to think we are the brighest star on the Christmas tree. The peer review process lets us all see how each of us are reporting and how much better we can do it. This has proven over the years to greatly benefit the public and ourselves professionally. In fact, it has worked so well it has gotten down to a nit-picking of details, typo errors or just plain laughter and beratement of a stupid description of something.

Never have I been to a meeting of the various inspector associations whether locally or statewide where someone is performing inspections in 2.5 to 3 hours (or at least admit to it). I also have yet to meet someone that says they inspect to a minimum which cannot be defined as every inspection is different. One thing is for sure, to advertise one thing but then disclaim it, market credentials that don't exist and brag of greatness is a sure fired way to get sued for fraud and mis-representation.

One thing is for sure, to advertise one thing but then disclaim it, market credentials that don't exist and brag of greatness is a sure fired way to get sued for fraud and mis-representation.

Amen,

Aaron

Originally Posted by Jim Hime

Never have I been to a meeting of the various inspector associations whether locally or statewide where someone is performing inspections in 2.5 to 3 hours (or at least admit to it).

That time frame is rather normal in Florida. You should take into account regional variations in construction techniques and house size.

Dom.

Originally Posted by Dom D'Agostino

That time frame is rather normal in Florida. You should take into account regional variations in construction techniques and house size.

Dom.

You may be correct Dom. Florida is supposed to be the toughest state in the nation as to building codes. We are only third or fourth to that but with all house sizes and regional conditions I honestly don't know anyone that practices in a 2.5 -3 hour time frame. I suppose Florida and Kansas have excellent code enforcement and owners maintain their homes? But, again I guess that depends on the inspector and what standards he's attempting to follow. If you re-read above you might understand why we can't phanthom such "walk-through inspections" as we call it. Smooching with agents (aka: "I won't kill your deal") limits your time in business and indicates a lack of ethics, duty and public responsibility. Why would any intelligent buyer ever call an inspector that advertises "I won't kill your deal"? I've never seen an agent come to the rescue of an inspector. I can testify that all you'll hear when a problem develops is "the inspector must have missed it" and....I now have witnesses that want to cover their own rear-ends. Regardless, publically advertising mis-statements or credentials is a guaranteed way to government hell here or anywhere else. Florida or Kansas don't have state H.I. licensing (yet). Enjoy the free spirit while you can. We are held accountable here for not crossing a "t". There are 10,026 (?) licenses here but only 1950 (?) actively left to inspect over a 6-7 year period? You do the math on that one. Those disclaimers are transparent when you advertise or imply one thing but your pre-agree states another as apparantly unraveled from the very beginning of this thread.

Originally Posted by Jim Hime

-- I honestly don't know anyone that practices in a 2.5 -3 hour time frame.

I suppose Florida and Kansas have excellent code enforcement and owners maintain their homes?

But, again I guess that depends on the inspector and what standards he's attempting to follow.

Jim,

The attached are the Standards of the State of Tennessee.

Basic as they are.

You decide if this Standard can be done on an average home in a 2 1/2 hour time frame.

Not pandering ,"Not going to Kill Your Deal", but just an honest basic Home Inspection.

Originally Posted by Billy Stephens

Jim,

The attached are the Standards of the State of Tennessee.

Basic as they are.

You decide if this Standard can be done on an average home in a 2 1/2 hour time frame.

Not pandering ,"Not going to Kill Your Deal", but just an honest basic Home Inspection.

Without taking a standards class that we have to describe each line item I don't know how to get through that in 2.5 -3 hours. Even before we had state standards passed it took longer than that. My heritage goes back to TN so I'll always defend it but I couldn't use those standards. A voluntary peer review network is an exciting and productive way to know if you comply and I'll always recommend it. There's much more to structural and mechanical systems than what one thinks or appears to be on any standards. No matter where you are at how does one advertise to their client that I only meet the minimum requirements? Buyers don't have a clue of what that means and have their own expectations. The average suit shows that as standards are subjective and open to interpretation. BTW - our standards are currently going through a proposed upgrade/change/improvement process which should be an initial hair puller. The basic reason is to force the "walk through inspectors" closer to compliance. This was not initiated by government but by many inspectors statewide. Could you use the ASHI standards claimed by the dog and get through it in 2.5 -3 hours and produce a report? It all depends on who one represents and hopefully it is the buyer.

You keep stating that 2.5 to 3 hours is not long enough. It's fairly normal here on an average house with no crawl space. If that's not enough, what do you think is enough time to conduct a proper inspection. I don't see the length of time being the major factor in determining the inspection quality. If you're just trying to add up billable hours, you're not providing any value to your clients.

I'm talking just inspection time. I do the report at home, which is about another two hours, depending on how distracted I get.

Talk about false and misleading advertising, check out the claims on this Canadian site, and look whose teaching materials he uses!

ON Home Inspections AND inspection training by Eagle - Eye Healthy Home Inspections and Sharondale Academy of Arts and Trades

If you shop around, you will see that this quality and quantity of training would cost you anywhere from $8,000.00 to $12,000.00, and take up to 2 or even 3 years to accomplish in the broken up, segmental type training most colleges provide.

We offer all this training, including manual, and a beautiful graduation diploma, AND a one year paid membership in the International Association of Certified Home Inspectors for the low, low price of $3,987.70 . You can start earning money while you learn! One of our students made over $7,000.00 in home inspections before he finished the course! $1,800.00 in one busy weekend!

Think about it ............... You can charge anywhere from $300.(low) to $650. or more, for each inspection, which takes, on average, about 3-4 hrs. to complete. If you do only one a day at the lowest price; that still works out to $1,250.00 a week!

Let us show you how you can make a six figure income in as little as two to three years or less, by giving exceptional service and applying certain marketing secrets we can share with you!

I think what Jim Hime is saying here is that 2-3 hours is not enough time for the entire process to take place. That includes introductions and pleasantries, inspection, chat with the clients, and writing of the report. This would be for the average home which is about 2400 s.f. nationally.

I can and often do 2 inspections in a day. This depends, of course, on the size and difficulty of the homes. I also use subcontractors for termite and pool inspections whenever I am wall to wall with business, which means not yet this year, thanks to the phuquing rephuqlicans and their boy-wonder chimp (chump) president. Remember also that I get up at 4am, and am on the road no later than 6:30am and rarely get to leave my office before 6pm. You do the math.

Sure, everyone is different. Every state's rules are a bit different. All of those differences lead to different times for different folks. But, 2-3 hours for the entire process on anything but a new 500 s.f. condo that is within walking distance of your office is a real s-t-r-e-t-c-h.

If you are attempting to inspect to Texas Real Estate Commission, ASHI, IRC, NEC, and the other various and sundry related standards that pertain to any house, you cannot, and I repeat here CANNOT properly inspect the average house in 2-3 hours. Period. End of that discussion.

Aaron

"Never have I been to a meeting of the various inspector associations whether locally or statewide where someone is performing inspections in 2.5 to 3 hours (or at least admit to it)."

Jim, your state is different. If you have reporting standards that make a 2.5-3 hour inspection not possible, then that is your thing. The bottom line is that not all states have those standards and not all houses are big enough, have enough defects, and are openly accessible enough to justify spending more than 3 hours inspecting. You could try it but you'd be wasting time around here.

You may take longer but it doesn't necessarily mean you are better than anybody spending less time on an inspection. And like Jim Robinson said, report time is not included in this timeframe. Another 1.5-2 hours spent compiling the report is standard for me.

Raymond:

Eagle-Eye, huh? Another Walmart-decorated, gimmick-vehicled, lack-luster, Mike-Crow wanabee parading as an inspector.

Aaron

Jim H.,
I hope you can hear me way up on that pedestal.

For your information, the TN SOP is almost word for word the ASHI SOP of a few years ago with a couple minor tweaks.

I actually do know a little bit about writing reports, and knowing if they meet the SOP. I was a report verifier for ASHI for several years. In fact, I was one of the "trainers" when ASHI went to "paid" verifiers. And I have verified many TX reports.

If you are spending a hour or more just in a kitchen, I have to wonder what the heck you are doing in there.

To insinuate that if an inspector does more than one inspection a day, or takes no more than 2.5 - 3 hours is not following SOP's, is incompetent or not working FOR his client is preposterous.

I'm also well aware of peer review, having participated in them in both CA and TN. I agree they are a great tool for education.

As far as inspecting to just the "minimum". I think that most inspectors actually exceed the Standards somewhere during their inspection, in one area or another. It's pretty hard NOT to. Most of us exceed it testing outlets and windows alone.

Standards of Practice are, by their very nature, MINIMUM. It would almost be impossible to set MAXIMUM Standards. Pretty much every building around is built to MINIMUM Standards, that's what the Building Code was designed for, to DEFINE the minimum the builder needs to do to make the building safe.

While I admire your passion and your drive for excellence, just because someone doesn't do the job like you, doesn't mean they are doing it wrong, or not as well (or maybe better).

JF

By the way, if you would like to talk to a Texan that does know me, give Jim Hemsell a call.

If you are spending a hour or more just in a kitchen, I have to wonder what the heck you are doing in there.

Hime's a helluva a cook. He's looking for recipes . . .

As far as inspecting to just the "minimum". I think that most inspectors actually exceed the Standards somewhere during their inspection, in one area or another.

Maybe you don't have access nowadays to the reports from other inspectors in your vicinity. I do, and I can tell you that this statement is just plain wrong. At this juncture I'm going to say something that I probably shouldn't (and it pains me to do so) because it agrees with the Dawg from Oz: 85% of the inspection reports I see do not even meet minimal standards. To hell with exceeding them, that's a fairy tale.

By the way, if you would like to talk to a Texan that does know me, give Jim Hemsell a call.

Jim is a Texan, I'll give him that. It wasn't his fault though, he would have preferred to have been born in Des Plains, IL. He is also very knowledgeable. But, have you ever seen one of his reports? Minimalist.

As for your reports, Dr. Feldman, they are good-looking, judging by the sample you have on your site. But, by comparison to Hime's they are found wanting. Minimalist. Nice, pleasantly appealing to the eye, but light in the ass.

Aaron

Aaron

Rest assured no other Canadian Inspection Association would lend credence to Sharondale Academy's misleading advertising. But then there is always the least resistance route for companies of this type who want to prey on the uneducated by using Nachi training material exclusively as the benchmark of the industry.

Cheers,

Ok, I can't help but play a little more.
I'll do 2 condo's in one day or a condo and a house but I won't schedule 2 houses in one day.
The math does not work on doing a house (unless it's a shack) in 2.5 hours. If you take off the standard 15-20 minutes on the front and back ends for intro's disc etc. with the client/other parties you have 2 hours or less to do the house.
I can do that in a small condo, not a house. An average house is min 3-4 hours, usually 4-5. I also get to the house 1/2 hour before everyone so I can assess the property and start the outside before everyone shows up and starts asking a million questions.
Did anyone notice how the dog mentioned 2.5 hours (i think his words were) 'when left alone' , something to that effect. Whose clients leave them alone during an inspection? What good inspector doesn't explain things to their client during the inspection? The dog apparently.
We can get caught up in regional and construction differences and debate time lines for too long. The real issue is the quality of inspection and that doesn't happen on a house in 2.5 hours.
Notice in the dog's responses he skimmed on the topics but didn't answer to any specifics? He never answered my question of whether he removes the panel cover and verifies breaker/wire gauge sizes. Should be an easy answer for someone who actually does it.
The dog got busted by his own industry and that is a good thing.

The dog got busted by his own industry and that is a good thing.

Markus:

A good thing and the only way it's going to happen short of the imminent lawsuits that await the Dawg and his ilk. Some might think it is vigilantism. It is not. It is simply in-house policing where no real police exist. Some think it is meddling in other people's business. It is. It is also necessary meddling when it is done in the name of maintaining an ethical core of inspectors nationally.

The competitive, factious and litigious nature of the "official" inspector organizations today leaves them in no position to actually do what it is they are supposedly designed to do: i.e. to delineate and insure a minimal SOP for HIs. This cannot happen given the current situation. Nor, in fact, do I even see the glimpse of a possibility for this occurring in any of our lifetimes.

What can happen, and just did in the case of Steve Rodriguez (will the defendant please rise), is that we can police our own. No, we cannot legally pay each of the wrongdoers a personal visit. That's just plain wishful, pie-in-the-sky thinking. If we could put an up-front and personal face on our complaints against them it would be grand. Folks are always more attentive when it comes down to man-to man confrontations than they are when it's just so many disembodied thoughts on a page or monitor.

This is something for each of you to mull over. I'm not asking anyone to agree with me. It's a free country (except of course for the fact that you cannot say what you think for fear that someone is listening, recording, whatever ala Homeland Security) so think what you want. I don't even want you to agree with me. I only want each person to THINK. Think about how the reckless disinformation being spewed forth by the unethical is damaging your business. Think of ways to put a stop to it.

From the list of suggested reading books on the Dawg's site I can see where his motivation lies. He must've read just portions of Napoleon Hill's and Og Mandingo's books. Though they do put great emphasis on the amassing of wealth, they also speak to ethical behavior. Hill and Mandingo went on later in life to write many other books focusing more on the ethical use of the acquiring of wealth. The remainder of the books are written by skanks like Mike Crow: get rich quick scam artists. Let the snake oil run knee-high in the streets.

Money is a good thing and a great part of why any of us does what he does professionally. This chase after monetary gain must, however and without the shred of a doubt, be tempered with ethical treatment of all concerned.

Concerned HIs can make that happen,

Aaron

You all have all went off on a tangent of sorts and this will be the last time that I for one will post on this board. My husband is changing quite a bit of things on his site so Thanks to the many of you that pointed out things that can be minconstrued as illegal or bad practice.

It is very important for all of you to understand that steve does not work for the realtors and never has. When he states "I will not kill your deal" it is all about costomer service and he will take care of their clients so the realtor will still work with the client when all is said and done. You all took it the wrong way because Steve did a poor job of explaining the differences. I for one hated the expression from day one, but could see my husbands point...weak as it may have been.

Getting to the average 2.5 hour inspection, this does not include the report guys. Steve uses a hand held to record all of his report findings and to take upwards of 50 pictures. He then goes home uploads it to Homegauge...his software provider and uploads the pictures. The average home inspection can be completely finished with report in about 3.5 hours. We do not print our inspection reports we email them a link to view their reports at anytime and they can print them if they like.

You all have been taking every word that Steve says and some how twisting it and mangleing it to make yourselves feel good or to shed light on a huge issue among home inspectors, which would be the inspectors that are bought off by agents or agencies. I know for a proven fact Steve is the last guy on here that could be sold by an agent.

He see's the value of the relationship between realtors and inspectors and has certain marketing practices that have kept him very successful during this time.

Aaron, you state that inspections have dropped 20%, this is the time that your marketing needs to double. Steve uses a very helpful tool that all of you should jump on called SendOutCards. You can actually take the picture of the front of the home that you just inspected, upload it to a card and send it to the client and Thank them for using your services. We also send the same card to Realtors with a $20.00 coupon inside of it. Since we started using this marketing source our inspections went from 3 a week to 8 to 10 a week and we are now looking to hire someone full-time.

I think you all have shown that you are some very brillant guys that really have the best interest of the clients, but things have been taken out of context. Steve has agreed that he will put a disclaimer under the line "We will not kill your deal" to explain what he means and doesn't mean with that statement.

As far as removing the cover of the electrical panel....of course he does and to not do this would be an insult of an inspection.

Since you all seem so interested in Steve's background. Steve grew up in a house of contractors, his father is a contractor and brother is as well. He helped his father build homes when he was young, then joined the military after he graduated highschool, he then went to collage for finance got out of college and went to NewYork to work for UBS warburg, after 9/11 when we lost several extremely close friends we decided to move back and go back to his roots and he bought a franchise from Pillar to Post.

I am not sure why any of that is important, but since Steve is the one on trial here, it is important for you all to know he isn't a goofball that lacks intelligence or ethics.

As far as money goes, yes it is a good thing to have. Steve and I live by the creed that the more you give the more you get. Just about all of our earnings last year we gave away and we have since doubled our income. I work as a trainer for Dale Carnegie and have had the luxury to see a lot of lives transformed. I now can stay home with our 3 little boys. Money isn't our draw and has never been. Steve's list of recommended reads are great books by great authors. These books inspire others to reach higher, which I encourage you all to do.

Like I said before, if you have anymore problems with Steve and his website please address it by emailing us. It would only be professional of you to do so.

Leslie Rodriguez

Originally Posted by Steve Rodriguez

You all have all went off on a tangent of sorts

Huh?

When he states "I will not kill your deal" it is all about costomer service and he will take care of their clients so the realtor will still work with the client when all is said and done.

And that's different?

You all have been taking every word that Steve says and some how twisting it and mangleing it to make yourselves feel good

Huh?

He see's the value of the relationship between realtors and inspectors and has certain marketing practices

We've noticed.

Since we started using this marketing source our inspections went from 3 a week to 8 to 10 a week and we are now looking to hire someone full-time.

So you have more than 2 Inspections Booked for the rest of the month?

but things have been taken out of context.

Huh?

Steve has agreed that he will put a disclaimer under the line "We will not kill your deal" to explain what he means and doesn't mean with that statement.

Not what he said. " I understand what I mean now you understand what I mean."

this would be an insult of an inspection.

And Your / His ? rebuttal's aren't?

Since you all seem so interested in Steve's background.

Not me, You / He brought it up.

after 9/11 when we lost several extremely close friends

As well as the dog?

I am not sure why any of that is important, but since Steve is the one on trial here,

It's not .

Just about all of our earnings last year we gave away

Yeah.

we have since doubled our income.

Great.

I work as a trainer for Dale Carnegie

And?

I now can stay home with our 3 little boys.

Great.

Like I said before, if you have anymore problems with Steve and his website please address it by emailing us.

I tried ( You / He ?) let it go.

Arron will get bored and move on as well.


It would only be professional of you to do so.

Huh? ( Back Door insult as to being unprofessional. )

Leslie Rodriguez

Is that Your / His Official PR Photo ? ( I've seen it before)

I'm starting to feel like someone is Shucking Me!

Due to that picture all is forgiven

Aaron,
I wasn't talking about who's is bigger, baddest, or even pretty. The discussion was about "meeting" the SOP's.

Thank you for the compliment on my sample report, I appreciate the kind words. You did remind me though I need to put a new one up, since I have tweaked the format somewhat (size and placement of photos for one).

On a lighter side, Hime can't be that good of a cook if he needs recipes. This comment is meant as an attempt at humor and in no way intended to get into a pissing match about who can cook better, faster, or prettier. I'm sure that Jim is an excellent cook.

Having been a professional cook in a past life, and consider myself a stellar chef, I haven't used recipes for decades. The exception is when I grind my blend of curry powder, or rubs for meats/fish. But that is another discussion.

JF

Originally Posted by Jack Feldmann

The exception is when I grind my blend of curry powder, or rubs for meats/fish.

JF

Jack,

I hope you Vent To The Exterior of the Home.

And glad you are on the other end of the State.

Billy,
Liking it as hot as I do does have some drawbacks - but it's a gooooood hot!
If you like curry, let me know and I'll send you some.
JF

Originally Posted by David Banks

Due to that picture all is forgiven

Agreed, we should all follow suit in honor of the death of this thread . . .

Aaron

Originally Posted by Scott Patterson

Well, it is what it is. The "bashing" has helped you to see that some things need to be changed! It is better to get the criticism from this discussion board than from an attorney.

Lets look at all the home inspectors' websites and bash anything that we feel is inappropriate. This message board has become a great place for it. Lets not talk to them but bash them. The results will be great .

This was handled poorly and am ashamed of it. I'm glad that some of you are on your pedestal and I hope you enjoy looking at yourselves in the mirror while you're up there. You remind me of school kids (bunch of bullies).

There is a right way of doing something and then a wrong way. Bashing is the wrong way. Just as you all get to criticize the way he communicates from his website, I and many others have the right to criticize how you all have handled this.

You can go to my website so you can "bash" what I have written. I just got rid of my fax and haven't made that change yet. I know that I'm misleading my clients by saying I have a fax and I feel soooo bad about that. Enjoy bashing my site and others that you come across.

Originally Posted by Jack Feldmann

Thank you for the compliment on my sample report, I appreciate the kind words. You did remind me though I need to put a new one up, since I have tweaked the format somewhat (size and placement of photos for one).

On a lighter side, Hime can't be that good of a cook if he needs recipes. This comment is meant as an attempt at humor and in no way intended to get into a pissing match about who can cook better, faster, or prettier. I'm sure that Jim is an excellent cook.

Having been a professional cook in a past life, and consider myself a stellar chef, I haven't used recipes for decades. The exception is when I grind my blend of curry powder, or rubs for meats/fish. But that is another discussion.
JF

Was offshore this weekend and..... the fish generally won.

Jack, as you've experienced a light sample of voluntary peer review (from Aaron) then you might understand that there is not one recipe. It's ever changing. Something innocuous always gains from improvement. Again, I recommend you think about a review network in your own area and you'll soon realize that what you think you are doing can always be done better and yep, it takes longer. If you think that's all you can do then....keep at it, there's always more. I'm always looking for recipes and improvement. It's the smart thing to do. Self-taught inspectors deservingly get sued.

This tread is more than about SoP's and gosh forbid anyone having to start at the beginning to follow it.

Marcus, you seem to have a lot of snap and experience and appear to represent the person writing the check. I get many transferees from that big petrochemical company up there going back and forth from corp. to our refineries (mostly coming). When they head north I'll send them your way.

Okay guys,

We have choked, strangled, hanged, drowned, shot and ran over that horse with our inspection mobiles. Let's stop kicking it - it's already dead.

While I don't agree with any inspector advertising to realtors that he "will not kill their deals", we all make our business decisions and run our businesses accordingly. If bulldog is a reputable company and stands behind it's inspections, including retribution to the buyer when an issue may have been understated during the inspection, than he is better than those who close their doors under pressure and re-open the next day under a new name. Whether he does or will do that, only he knows.

We all have our faults and can go on for a week bashing every one of us.