Thread: NACHI Ethical Standards reach new low.

Thanks for that link Scott. Lots of good info.

Originally Posted by Scott Patterson

You are correct! ASHI is a professional membership organization.

For anyone who is wondering about ASHI......
ASHI is the only association for this profession that has a seat at the table when the NAR, VA or HUD is in need of information on which to make decisions. Everyone in the HI profession has benefited immensely from ASHI and its volunteers and staff. Even if you have never paid a single year of ASHI dues you have received an immense benefit from the efforts of ASHI, its members and staff.
When I began to realize the truth of this, 14 years ago, I decided then that I had to support those efforts.
Anyone who knows this and doesn't want to support those efforts has some social conscience issues. That's OK. You work that out for yourself.
But, like my old and dear dad used to say, "I don't care if you ride in the wagon I'm pulling, just don't drag your feet."

Yes, it cost a lot of money to do what ASHI does and that is why membership dues are what they are.
If you are not an ASHI member you must be either unaware of their efforts and hard work on your behalf or aware and contented to let other HI's do all the hard work at the federal level for you.
There is no other HI association that has the background, experience and reputation with national and federal level officials like ASHI.
To join a state level association is wise but to not support the only national level HI association that makes every attempt to work out problems and open doors in the offices of HUD and the VA and maintain a dialogue with NAR is extremely short-sighted.
My experience with ASHI began in 1994. I had been in the HI business 4-5 years at that time with my head in the sand about HI associations; that is, I did not even know of ASHI.
An HI in my market area mentioned a state level siminar to me. I attended and got hooked immediately.

If, as an HI, you are only looking for a HI association to give you more credibility than you deserve to the point of bordering on marketing deception, ASHI may not be your choice. (I don't agree with ASHI certifying its Members who have qualified either even though its qualification process is exceptional when compared to all others in this profession.) There is another HI association that provides that service extremely well. You could join that one. Many already have.

If you want to support and be a part of an association that, for the most part, is populated with practitioners seeking a betterment of their skills and the profession as a whole, ASHI may be your best choice. Especially when you consider that ASHI fills a gap at the national level with other stakeholders in the real estate industry that no other HI association does. No other HI association even gets the phone call.

There has never been a single year in my association with ASHI that I haven't received many times the cost of dues from referrals from the web site or from other persons seeking an ASHI inspector for their needs.

To paraphrase John Kennedy: its about what you can do to help your profession, not about what the association can do to make you more money. The money comes with your "earned" credibility, experience level and visibility in the marketplace.
If you want an association to make you more visible and dress you up with more ribbons and badges than you have earned ASHI ain't for you.
Thanks for listening.

Here is a good link where me and Nick had a fight. Then the girls beat me up. Nice benefits.
InterNACHI members John McKenna and Nick Gromicko debate the virtues of licensing. - InterNACHI

Looks like the ESOP committee in action! Are those gloves permitted in the bylaws? I guess the bylaws don't mention anything about ganging up on an ungloved opponent. Do the rules specify that an referee is required.

Originally Posted by Tom Edwards

For anyone who is wondering about ASHI......
ASHI is the only association for this profession that has a seat at the table when the NAR, VA or HUD is in need of information on which to make decisions. Everyone in the HI profession has benefited immensely from ASHI and its volunteers and staff. Even if you have never paid a single year of ASHI dues you have received an immense benefit from the efforts of ASHI, its members and staff.
When I began to realize the truth of this, 14 years ago, I decided then that I had to support those efforts.
Anyone who knows this and doesn't want to support those efforts has some social conscience issues. That's OK. You work that out for yourself.
But, like my old and dear dad used to say, "I don't care if you ride in the wagon I'm pulling, just don't drag your feet."

Yes, it cost a lot of money to do what ASHI does and that is why membership dues are what they are.
If you are not an ASHI member you must be either unaware of their efforts and hard work on your behalf or aware and contented to let other HI's do all the hard work at the federal level for you.
There is no other HI association that has the background, experience and reputation with national and federal level officials like ASHI.
To join a state level association is wise but to not support the only national level HI association that makes every attempt to work out problems and open doors in the offices of HUD and the VA and maintain a dialogue with NAR is extremely short-sighted.
My experience with ASHI began in 1994. I had been in the HI business 4-5 years at that time with my head in the sand about HI associations; that is, I did not even know of ASHI.
An HI in my market area mentioned a state level siminar to me. I attended and got hooked immediately.

If, as an HI, you are only looking for a HI association to give you more credibility than you deserve to the point of bordering on marketing deception, ASHI may not be your choice. (I don't agree with ASHI certifying its Members who have qualified either even though its qualification process is exceptional when compared to all others in this profession.) There is another HI association that provides that service extremely well. You could join that one. Many already have.

If you want to support and be a part of an association that, for the most part, is populated with practitioners seeking a betterment of their skills and the profession as a whole, ASHI may be your best choice. Especially when you consider that ASHI fills a gap at the national level with other stakeholders in the real estate industry that no other HI association does. No other HI association even gets the phone call.

There has never been a single year in my association with ASHI that I haven't received many times the cost of dues from referrals from the web site or from other persons seeking an ASHI inspector for their needs.

To paraphrase John Kennedy: its about what you can do to help your profession, not about what the association can do to make you more money. The money comes with your "earned" credibility, experience level and visibility in the marketplace.
If you want an association to make you more visible and dress you up with more ribbons and badges than you have earned ASHI ain't for you.
Thanks for listening.

Mr Edwards..........thank-you for a well written and concise opinion. At present, I belong to INACHI, although I would qualify for full membership in any HI assc. I cared to join. My wife an I plan on moving to Georgia or New Mexico within the next 10 years, at that time I will be joining ASHI. No point to it now, not much ASHI involvement in Ontario.

Originally Posted by Brian M Jones

Mr Edwards..........thank-you for a well written and concise opinion. At present, I belong to INACHI, although I would qualify for full membership in any HI assc. I cared to join. My wife an I plan on moving to Georgia or New Mexico within the next 10 years, at that time I will be joining ASHI. No point to it now, not much ASHI involvement in Ontario.

Thanks for your comment, Brian.
I'm not aware of ASHI's involvement in Ontario since Canada split off years ago. I assumed that there was some Canadian/ASHI involvement, however.
I visited Toronto two years ago.
I liked Toronto very much.
Welcome to the states!

There are currently 62 members in Ontario. That number has climbed since last year.
Alberta 23
BC 15
Nfld 1
Sask 2
NB 1
Que 14

I suspect as Nachi falters and there will be more in Ontario joining ASHI and OAHI and CAHPI

RAYMOND

You include me in good company!!! It does not take rocket science to figure out this mess you are in with NACHI. All one needs to do is to read your daily posts, you continue to dig deeper, why is beyond me. What I reposted has been on the sight for a bit of time, and has been reposted by many. One can only read both sides of this sad saga, and come up with an opinion, and you certainly don't help your side of the story with your continued rants. Therefore, I don't know for a fact that that post is false, as you say. But, from your responses you do not make a good case for yourself.

Lay out your case, let the chips fall where they may, then move on with your life. I do not see that this bitterness you feel is benefiting you, and is a waste of your time, which would be better spent in finding happiness in your life. You are so consumed with hatred, it has got to impact your well being and happiness.

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

I would like to thank Nachi for showing once again their high ethical standards. I would particularly like to thank Mario A. Kyriacou ESOP committee member and Joe Farsetta Chair of the ESOP, James Bushart, and non member Steven C. Meyer.

Firstly Mr. Meyer I am surprised you would repost information which you know to be false considering you are not a member, nor privy to the information which was exchanged privately between me and the ESOP with regard to this matter. Even more surprising given Mr. Meyers holier than thou sermons here on this board about ethics I am totally flabbergasted at his action considering how quick he was to point out how well educated he is.

As to Mr. Mario Kyriacou who was not on the ESOP committee during this dispute and not privy to all the facts, nor has never actually taken the time to query me as to my side of events but has unquestionably taken information which is second hand and reposted it as accurate calls into question his abilities both as an ethics committee member and member of an organization that can only be described as morally and ethically bankrupt. But perhaps this is reflective of Mr. Kyriacou need to be accepted as a rookie inspector who can't muster the ability to join a professionally run organization.

What is even more disheartening is to see another ESOP member supported by Mr. Kyriacou and Mr. Farsetta to be using derogatory terms and foul language to belittle, intimidate, and to knowingly breach the standards they as committee members promised to uphold. Needless to say and recognized by many throughout the industry double standards are alive and well in NACHI and actively promoted by the ESOP committee members. Unfortunately its the inmates running the asylum. This is what happens when there are no bylaws, policies, or democratically elected directors and due process thrown out the window.

Steven:

Thanks for your concerns! You are judged by the company you keep. When you can't pass the muster with a professional inspection association there is always that other nefarious group you have aligned yourself with, you fit right in!

Obviously you are no rocket scientist, and spare me the junk about the real side of the story, anyone with a pea brain can see how out of control the situation has become and evidence fabricated.

Originally posted by Steven Meyer

RAYMOND

You include me in good company!!! It does not take rocket science to figure out this mess you are in with NACHI. All one needs to do is to read your daily posts, you continue to dig deeper, why is beyond me. What I reposted has been on the sight for a bit of time, and has been reposted by many. One can only read both sides of this sad saga, and come up with an opinion, and you certainly don't help your side of the story with your continued rants. Therefore, I don't know for a fact that that post is false, as you say. But, from your responses you do not make a good case for yourself.

Lay out your case, let the chips fall where they may, then move on with your life. I do not see that this bitterness you feel is benefiting you, and is a waste of your time, which would be better spent in finding happiness in your life. You are so consumed with hatred, it has got to impact your well being and happiness.

Would you care to enlighten me on the evidence that was fabricated???

As I say, I don't know the "whole story" only what you and your detractors post, and form an opinion from that. There is so much mud slinging back and forth, it has become impossible to determine what is BS and what isn't. It would be refreshing for everyone to state the facts, instead of these personal insults.

I quite frankly don't care one way or the other, but it is entertaining in a way.

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

Steven:

Thanks for your concerns! You are judged by the company you keep. When you can't pass the muster with a professional inspection association there is always that other nefarious group you have aligned yourself with, you fit right in!

Obviously you are no rocket scientist, and spare me the junk about the real side of the story, anyone with a pea brain can see how out of control the situation has become and evidence fabricated.

Originally posted by Steven Meyer

Originally Posted by Steven Meyers:

Would you care to enlighten me on the evidence that was fabricated???

As I say, I don't know the "whole story" only what you and your detractors post, and form an opinion from that. There is so much mud slinging back and forth, it has become impossible to determine what is BS and what isn't. It would be refreshing for everyone to state the facts, instead of these personal insults.

I quite frankly don't care one way or the other, but it is entertaining in a way.

Don't play dumb, and don't try and diminish the values of legitimacy of any properly administered home inspection association.

Despite your values you have yet to become a member of any inspection association over the months.

I appreciate you now realizing that due to the mud slinging you cannot separate fact from fiction in which case you shouldn't have put in writing that which you cannot ascertain as factual.

I will join a organization when I want, not just for the heck of it. and probably nachi, and with in the month. Am not in any real big hurry, I can live with and with out an organization, just depends on what they have to offer.

As I recall you are also not a member.

And, is any organization properly administered?

If truth be told, both sides of the mess are probably at fault. A great deal of miscommunication on both sides. It's sad that grown men can not come to reasonable terms and settle the matter.

Guess that's just human nature, both sides think they ar in the right and there does not seem to be a middle ground.

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

Originally Posted by Steven Meyers:



Don't play dumb, and don't try and diminish the values of legitimacy of any properly administered home inspection association.

Despite your values you have yet to become a member of any inspection association over the months.

I appreciate you now realizing that due to the mud slinging you cannot separate fact from fiction in which case you shouldn't have put in writing that which you cannot ascertain as factual.

Steven, my post #67 may be of some value to you in your decision.
I agree that forum members should refrain from casting epithets in lieu of logic.

[QUOTE=Steven Meyer;42284]I will join a organization when I want, not just for the heck of it. and probably nachi, and with in the month. Am not in any real big hurry, I can live with and with out an organization, just depends on what they have to offer.

As I recall you are also not a member.

And, is any organization properly administered?

If truth be told, both sides of the mess are probably at fault. A great deal of miscommunication on both sides. It's sad that grown men can not come to reasonable terms and settle the matter.

Guess that's just human nature, both sides think they ar in the right and there does not seem to be a middle ground.

Steven,

While I don't have a dog in this fight, nor really care where this thread is going, your post brings up a question.

No matter what organization you decide to join, you should not only ask what it's going to do for you, but more importantly, What are you bringing to the table? What do YOU have to offer the organization?

It's a two way street. An organization is worthless if the members just sit on their butts and wonder what they are going to get - and not do something to make the organization better. If everyone in a room just sits around waiting for someone else to turn on the lights, they will be in the dark a long time.

OK, back to the bickering.
JF

JACK FELDMANN

My hope for any organization I do decide to join, is there will be a free exchange of ideas, experiences, and helpful hints as it relates to the HI industry. That will be the basis of my decision, I don't look at them as an "employment agency", nor as my "marketing tool", but as a good source of information to enhance my chances at success, and hopefully I can add to the pot also.

I do not look at an organization as a road to success, that is going to depend soley on my own ability to make a go of it. An organization is just another tool for information, education, and the personal experience of others shared with a common goal of bettering the industry. Much can be gained by all participating in the discussions.

[quote=Jack Feldmann;42337]

Originally Posted by Steven Meyer

I will join a organization when I want, not just for the heck of it. and probably nachi, and with in the month. Am not in any real big hurry, I can live with and with out an organization, just depends on what they have to offer.

As I recall you are also not a member.

And, is any organization properly administered?

If truth be told, both sides of the mess are probably at fault. A great deal of miscommunication on both sides. It's sad that grown men can not come to reasonable terms and settle the matter.

Guess that's just human nature, both sides think they ar in the right and there does not seem to be a middle ground.

Steven,

While I don't have a dog in this fight, nor really care where this thread is going, your post brings up a question.

No matter what organization you decide to join, you should not only ask what it's going to do for you, but more importantly, What are you bringing to the table? What do YOU have to offer the organization?

It's a two way street. An organization is worthless if the members just sit on their butts and wonder what they are going to get - and not do something to make the organization better. If everyone in a room just sits around waiting for someone else to turn on the lights, they will be in the dark a long time.

OK, back to the bickering.
JF

Home inspection associations by their very nature are obligated to aid their members, and those who do not live up to this responsibility should consider disbanding.

When an association places its own interest above that of its membership it's value to both itself and its members is vastly diminished and in all likelihood ceases to function within the parameters its charter.

IMHO, acts of pious contrition should be saved for Sunday morning where they still hold some value, the kool-aid that is served at some associations would cause Jim Jones to blush.

Originally Posted by Steven Meyer

My hope for any organization I do decide to join, is there will be a free exchange of ideas, experiences, and helpful hints as it relates to the HI industry. That will be the basis of my decision, I don't look at them as an "employment agency", nor as my "marketing tool", but as a good source of information to enhance my chances at success, and hopefully I can add to the pot also.

I do not look at an organization as a road to success, that is going to depend soley on my own ability to make a go of it. An organization is just another tool for information, education, and the personal experience of others shared with a common goal of bettering the industry. Much can be gained by all participating in the discussions.

worth repeating

........

quote=Steven Meyer;42347]JACK FELDMANN

My hope for any organization I do decide to join, is there will be a free exchange of ideas, experiences, and helpful hints as it relates to the HI industry. That will be the basis of my decision, I don't look at them as an "employment agency", nor as my "marketing tool", but as a good source of information to enhance my chances at success, and hopefully I can add to the pot also.

I do not look at an organization as a road to success, that is going to depend soley on my own ability to make a go of it. An organization is just another tool for information, education, and the personal experience of others shared with a common goal of bettering the industry. Much can be gained by all participating in the discussions.

I second that!

Do you mind if I use that in the future? Of course giving you credit for writing it.

I have a real NC state HI license so I don't need a paid-for NACHI fake license.

I have never been asked what association I am a member of. The clients don't even know or care. This is really a dumb and unnecessary discussion.

The folks who keep this NACHI crap going are making money from the organization. If you can pay to join then the certification is useless.

I feel bad for the folks who can not pass the state exams but you need to study harder so you can pass the test. If you can't pass the test then you should not be a HI!

I have a real NC state HI license so I don't need a paid-for NACHI fake license.

I'm assuming you mean certification.

I have never been asked what association I am a member of. The clients don't even know or care.

Same here. Both Org. whats to be king of the hill when really there is no more king of the hill. Both Org have something to bring to the table.

This is really a dumb and unnecessary discussion.

Totally agree which was brought up at the beginning but the NACHI bashing had to continue.

The folks who keep this NACHI crap going are making money from the organization.

Everyone is in it for something. Some like the money. Some like the title/power. A few are in it to truely make things better.

If you can pay to join then the certification is useless.

Your basically describing ASHI and NACHI. I don't totally agree with you on that one.

I feel bad for the folks who can not pass the state exams but you need to study harder so you can pass the test. If you can't pass the test then you should not be a HI!

Agree!

Steven,
Thanks for the response. I apologize if I jumped to the conclusion that you were showing a very common attitude of "what's in it for ME".

My suggestion would be to visit the local chapters of any organization and see how they fit your needs. At the local level you should meet like minded inspectors that are willing to share information, and develop business relationships (and friendships).

Within our local chapter I have:
1. Guys that refer me business when they can't get to an inspection within the time frame requested.
2. A phone network so we can call each other when we see that weird something or other and just need to confer with someone.
3. Guys I can refer business when I can't get to it, or when my client needs an EIFS inspection, or mold inspection.
4. Or a network where I can get someone to do an inspection for me when an emergency comes up.

That said, there are also some guys that belong (or did) to the chapter that I don't share their level of ethics, or their business model. Pretty hard to get 30 guys together that you like every one.

You may find the right fit at any one of the big 3, or you may not. It usually takes more than one visit to get a feel.
JF

Jack has given you some good advice. You need to look at your local offerings and then go with the best fit. Your local chapters are the strength of the national organizations. ASHI, NAHI, AII are examples of national orgs that are run by their membership, many state orgs are also run by their membership. If you have a membership that does not participate or helps when called upon then you will have a weak organization, no matter how much is offered or appears to be offered.

Originally Posted by Scott Patterson

If you have a membership that does not participate or helps when called upon then you will have a weak organization, no matter how much is offered or appears to be offered.

Remember though, help is truly only help when... It (1)actually helps, or is (2)requested, otherwise it is merely hindrance or interference regardless of how many people claim that is necessary or good for you. Sometimes the best help is to first do no harm.

J FELDMAN, J BURKESON, S PATTERSON, K LUCE

Thank you for your posts and information, great advice. (Luce, you are more than welcome to use my post)

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I am in no huirry to join ANY organization until I have more information on them, but have looked at each with an open mind.

I would rather imagine that each org/ has both its strengths and weaknesses, each has something to offer depending on what one is looking for as far as their expectations are concerned.

I believe that many pick/join an organization with grand expectations that work will instasntly come their way. That is NOT the purpose of an organization in my opinion. An organization is there to HELP you suceed, but does not gurantee it, success comes by your own hard work, time and effort put forth, and little luck helps!!

Scott, your local chapter suggestion is a good one, however there does not seem to be a great presence of local chapters of any of the organizations here in Washington state. Which is one of the reasons I have not joined any of them. The local chapters are the best route to go, as they are really the backbone of the national orgs. And, the one on one contact with local HI's, provides more input and local support than a national (centeralized) org. can.

I winter in Palm Springs, Cal. and summer in Washington. So, my next trip south, will look into local chapters in Calif. as that being a larger market, there is an abundance of local chapters with each organization.



A national organization is known by its LOCAL members, and strong local chapters is the best advertisement a national org. can get. I do not have a dog in this fight, but if the only way those that bash the competing orgs., they, in my view must have a weak case in promoting their own.

Thanks again for your positive non judgemental opinions and information, it's of great help as continue this path in my life.

I think that REQUESTED is the same as "called upon". Once again, we have "the glass is half empty".

An association is only as credible as its accreditation process.

Originally Posted by Jack Feldmann

I think that REQUESTED is the same as "called upon". Once again, we have "the glass is half empty".

Yes, only in society where free thinking people are scorned and group-think is worshiped as sacred truth can REQUESTED ever be confused with "called upon", welcome to my world.

I would post an opinion here as I belong to both FABI and NACHI but it took so long to read all the other posts I am tired and doubt anyone else with any sense would be bothered going this far. This political bullcrap between the organizations serves no one, certainly none in the membership. Why members not involved in the profitable aspects of the paid hierarchy of an association have such loyalties is beyond my understanding. Those who donate their time freely and work for the advancement of an organization do benefit by thier involvement from a buisiness standpoint due to the public exposure and advertisement opportunities that that can present. The rest of us who for whatever reason have joined are doing it because in some way we believe it will benefit us. Whether it be through education, advertisement, Standards of practice or code of ethics it does legitimatize our individual operations to be affiliated with an organization. What amazes me is how many people who had no effort in establishing an organization have such strong emotional response with regard to other organizations.
This is childish, stupid and counterproductive. When we throw the shackles of false loyalty aside for cooperation and band together on that which we can agree upon we will accomplish our objectives. I hope it eventually can happen.

Originally Posted by Brian Hoagland

When we throw the shackles of false loyalty aside for cooperation and band together on that which we can agree upon we will accomplish our objectives. I hope it eventually can happen.

Please share with us something that you believe we can all agree upon, the two organizations which you belong to (NACHI & FABI) appear to be diametrically opposite in regards to their view on state licensing, how is that working out for you?