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  1. #1
    chris nor's Avatar
    chris nor Guest

    Default 4 point inspection

    Hello gentlemen, I'm new here.

    I am a Florida state certified general contractor who has been doing wind mitigations for the past 2 years.
    Reciently, some insurance agents, whom I work with, have asked me to do 4 point inspections. Sure, great, no problem-never did it, but I'll figure it out.
    However, the other day, Citizens Ins rejected someones 4point because they were only a GC and not an electrician.
    Can anyone shed some light on this? I don't want to go and get that lic as well!
    thanks

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: 4 point inspection

    Quote Originally Posted by chris nor View Post
    Hello gentlemen, I'm new here.

    I am a Florida state certified general contractor who has been doing wind mitigations for the past 2 years.
    Reciently, some insurance agents, whom I work with, have asked me to do 4 point inspections. Sure, great, no problem-never did it, but I'll figure it out.
    However, the other day, Citizens Ins rejected someones 4point because they were only a GC and not an electrician.
    Can anyone shed some light on this? I don't want to go and get that lic as well!
    thanks


    Citizens requires the electrical portion of their 4-point form to be filled out by an licensed electrician. ASHI & FABI members are exempt if and only if they use the ASHI on-line insurance form. NACHI members are exempt if they use the approved NACHI form, as a GC I would suggest joining NACHI as the easiest fix for your dilemma then you could use their form with your NACHI number. There is currently no exemption for GC's, but you could sub-out the electrical portion to a licensed electrician.


  3. #3
    chris nor's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4 point inspection

    geat! thanks,
    ...so which one should I join?
    Hope I don't need both-


  4. #4
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    Default Re: 4 point inspection

    Quote Originally Posted by chris nor View Post
    geat! thanks,
    ...so which one should I join?
    Hope I don't need both-
    It is very easy to join the certification mill INACHI. Take their simple online exam and pay $289 and Poof you are a Certified Home Inspector. As you are not a home inspector and don't intend on doing home inspections for a living I would join INACHI. Their membership requirements are easy to meet.

    It is also easy to join up with ASHI, but their membership requirements are a little tougher as you go along. Most folks join ASHI after they have been in the profession for a while.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  5. #5
    chris nor's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4 point inspection

    thanks for the advice.
    however I do plan on expanding into home inspections as well. I realize just being GC does not mean I know everything there is to home inspection. However, I do know my way around a house and understand the mechanics of such.
    Could someone lead me in a direction where I could get educated in the field AND get continuing education credits ( I need 14 hrs every 2 yrs)?

    thanks guys, BTW I'm in South West Florida.
    -yes ground zero foreclosure nationwide


  6. #6
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    Default Re: 4 point inspection

    Chris,

    Being as you are in Florida, contact FABI first: FABI-Contact

    I've been retired for a couple of years, so I'm not sure what is involved in using those forms and at what stage of membership you are allowed to use them.

    If you have to be a Registered Professional Inspector, then the quickest way would be to join INACHI and pay your money.

    As Scott said: "As you are not a home inspector and don't intend on doing home inspections for a living I would join INACHI. Their membership requirements are easy to meet." ... all they want is your money, take an online test, but ... send them money. For your purposes, that may work best.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  7. #7
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    Default Re: 4 point inspection

    Quote Originally Posted by chris nor View Post
    thanks for the advice.
    however I do plan on expanding into home inspections as well. I realize just being GC does not mean I know everything there is to home inspection. However, I do know my way around a house and understand the mechanics of such.
    Could someone lead me in a direction where I could get educated in the field AND get continuing education credits ( I need 14 hrs every 2 yrs)?

    thanks guys, BTW I'm in South West Florida.
    -yes ground zero foreclosure nationwide
    Chris, right now FL does not require a home inspector to be licensed. This will change in 2010 as home inspector license legislation was passed this year in FL. It is a stinker of a law and is the result of much infighting of groups in the state. I have it from a good resource that the powers to be are proceeding along with the law and have started to work on the details of it, like fees, standards, type of exam, etc. You might want to try and go ahead and find out what the state is going to require and start meeting those requirements. FABI would be a good start as Jerry said.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  8. #8
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    Default Re: 4 point inspection

    Just one other point, the ASHI form is really not geared to Florida 4-Point Inspections, nor Citizens Insurance Company requirements in particular. It is more of a multi-page national risk survey designed by insurers whose main goal is to collect statistical data for the insurance industry. Most Florida home inspectors shy away from the ASHI form first because it is unprofitable, second, due to the time required to complete the form, and lastly because the scope does not really represent Florida home construction standards which tend to confuse the clerks who process these forms. NACHI's form is stupid-simple, Citizens approved and Florida construction specific.

    At this point in time with the mess regarding Florida Home Inspector Licensing, I suggest going with NACHI if completing Citizen's Four-Point Insurance Inspections is your only goal.

    BTW in regards to Florida home inspector licensing, the state is suffering a reduction in population, a short fall in sales tax revenues, a crash in municipal revenues due to Amendment One due to the drop in real estate prices, hence the licensing bill that was signed into law has yet to pass Appropriations and the state is not moving forward at this time... Look for another push-back of the effective date in the future. Besides all that carnage, the Attorney General of Florida was notified that the law may be in violation of the state Constitution regarding the 1981 Sunrise Act.

    All the best - Joe.


  9. #9
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    Default Re: 4 point inspection

    Joe

    I have seen a few reports in the past couple months including one from the Governor of Florida. They all stated the 1200 to 2000 a month influx of people coming to Florida.

    I also heard that the real estate market in Florida is not as bad as reports state. They say in comparison of the homes for sale compared to what are selling is extremely low. The bad market is the folks that are trying to bail out of their homes because of the drop in price and those that are trying to fend off foreclosure because of stupidity of the type of loans they new they were getting themselves into.

    Whats the real story over there Joe


  10. #10
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    Default Re: 4 point inspection

    I am surprised that no one has commented on the fact that Joe B., Scott, and I are all in agreement on this one point, in this one instance, at this one point in time ... INACHI (or whatever the current name is ) is the place for Chris to go, in addition to checking with FABI (because Chris is in Florida).

    Are the planets all in perfect alignment of something? Is the universe in balance in in harmony?

    Is it because the Mars lander made a successful soft landing?



    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  11. #11
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    Default Re: 4 point inspection

    I did notice Jerry but I am usually to opinionated and wanted someone else to comment first. Since you are a Floridian, what do you think of my previous post and the note below?

    Joe is being quite the gentleman but don't say anything.



    Florida Real Estate Market Bottomed out in 2006; Growth…
    Real Estate – A new report released today by Attorneys' Title Insurance Fund finds that Florida's housing markets slowed in 2006 in nearly every geographic region, and that Florida's economy has downshifted from a period of spectacular growth to merely strong growth and will continue through 2007 and into the first half of 2008 before giving way to more robust g


  12. #12
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    Default Re: 4 point inspection

    Ted,

    Pockets of Florida are deader than the proverbial door nail. Such as SW Florida over by Naples, Ft. Myers, that slice of Florida.

    Other areas as down, some are suffering, some are holding their own, and, according to several recent newspaper articles, my area of Florida has even turned the corner and is getting better - for how long, no one knows yet, is it just an anomaly, or is it a new trend?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  13. #13
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    Default Re: 4 point inspection

    Florida was being smart for a while but then killed itself with the housing price jump. Any state that has drastic jumps in the rise in home pricing always takes a hard crash when a recession hits. Been there, done that in Mass for the 36 years that I lived there. I think that is why Texas is holding its own. I have been here for four years and there was only a modest jump. They have now settled back down slightly.


  14. #14
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    Default Re: 4 point inspection

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Burkeson View Post

    All the best - Joe.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    I am surprised that no one has commented on the fact that Joe B., Scott, and I are all in agreement on this one point, in this one instance, at this one point in time ...

    Are the planets all in perfect alignment of something? Is the universe in balance in in harmony?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post

    Joe is being quite the gentleman but don't say anything.

    Stupid Reports !

    What did I miss ?

    Joe B. being Civil.

    .




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  15. #15
    chris nor's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4 point inspection

    wow!
    welcome I'm glad I can be the olive branch that builds harmonius relationships here at Insp news! I didn't know there was so much contempt amoungst this group?

    In seriousness-
    thanks for the info, it has really helped me get started in my new business.
    Two years ago, a friend- property manager- came to me and asked if I would certify a building. I said "sure, no prob". Next he had another, then another. Then different mgt co called, and it just took off! At the time I was still doing remodels, but that fell off and I was left with this as my only source of income.

    Now that I have expanded to home owner mitigation insp, My Safe Florida Home inspections and 4 point, I have decided to embrace this as my new business.
    as most of you know, in remodeling you have to deal with the same people for months at a time and it never goes smoothly when it cost more and takes longer than expected-totally sucks and I hate them when I'm done with the job. Besides the big contractors have taken over the remodeling bus here in So. west FL and have left us small guys with handman crap.
    So this is refreshing in the fact that I am - in and out- in one day.

    I'm not really focusing on home inspection right now, as the existing inspectors have created thier realtionships with the realtors. Hence, there is not alot of demand for more home inspectors. However the market will come back and I'd like to be ready when it does.

    I feel I have a few things in my favor:
    ins is requiring 4pt insp for homes 30+ yrs prior to renewing.
    citizens(and others) are requiring wit insp prior to renewing.
    wind mits are only good for 5 yrs. 2&1/2 yrs from now I start all over again.
    ...and I have a state GC lic. It seems to give me credibility.

    SO, I did my rant- no you're not getting my life story, this is a family show.


  16. #16
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    Default Re: 4 point inspection

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    Chris, right now FL does not require a home inspector to be licensed. This will change in 2010 as home inspector license legislation was passed this year in FL. It is a stinker of a law and is the result of much infighting of groups in the state. I have it from a good resource that the powers to be are proceeding along with the law and have started to work on the details of it, like fees, standards, type of exam, etc. You might want to try and go ahead and find out what the state is going to require and start meeting those requirements. FABI would be a good start as Jerry said.
    You know, Everyone keeps mentioning FABI. Whats up with that. The folks in Florida are making a big mistake if one of the requirements is you have to belong to FABI. This is way to much power and oversight. Belonging to a national organization I can understand. Having state guidelines and SOP I can understand. When I lived in Florida folks would say "do you belong to FABI" "all the inspectors we refer belong to FABI" Like I say, way to much control and power. It is one thing to be licensed, I can see that. But to have to also belong to a particular organization within the state is to much. Do the inspectors in your state want to be controlled by the state and FABI. If you have state Sop's and ethics and continuing ed requirements why do you even need another body or organization in charge (literally) of you .

    There is a Real Estate company here in Texas. There inspector referral list is a list of TAREI. Real silly. Tarei folks obviously convinced their hire ups in the company that if they were not TAREI then they are not worth referring. That Company is Ebby Haliday. Coldwell Bankers mother company also owns US Inspect as well as Cent 21 (talk about a conflict of interest). I use to send emails to Coldwell Banker Realtors and use to get back letters from their corporate office stating "Stop marketing OUR Agents, we refer a national franchised company" US Inspect"

    Just an example. To much influence from any one direction and people think they own you. Coldwell Bankers statement of "OUR" Realtors, Hmmm they are not their Realtors. They are all independents and work for them selves under the Coldwell Banker name but still self employed individuals.


  17. #17
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    Default Re: 4 point inspection

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    I am surprised that no one has commented on the fact that Joe B., Scott, and I are all in agreement on this one point, in this one instance, at this one point in time ... INACHI (or whatever the current name is ) is the place for Chris to go, in addition to checking with FABI (because Chris is in Florida).

    Are the planets all in perfect alignment of something? Is the universe in balance in in harmony?

    Is it because the Mars lander made a successful soft landing?


    Here is even more scarier news for you Jerry.

    If and when the state ever gets around to doing something with licensing I would be the first to support the FABI exam as the exclusive entrance exam for Florida home inspectors, (and I haven't even taken it yet)... When the moon is in the seventh house and Jupiter aligns with Mars


  18. #18
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    Default Re: 4 point inspection

    Joe

    The one that does not like control. Obviously you were writing that the same time I was writing my post. Do not under any circumstances allow an instate organization to have control over what and when and how and what for, that you do anything. Man, 2 instate organizations telling you what you can and cannot do.

    Just my opinion

    The NHIE is all you need. I am not pushing them but they are out of state and are only a testing organization. No matter what test is put together for a home inspectors exam it is not going to be any different than the NHIE.

    State licensing? It is going to happen. SOP's, Ethics, Continuing Ed,. You do not need anyone else making the rules for you and being in control of you.


  19. #19
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    Default Re: 4 point inspection

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    The folks in Florida are making a big mistake if one of the requirements is you have to belong to FABI.

    Ted,

    Nothing to worry about.

    No requirements for being a member of FABI that I've ever heard of.

    I would go for the FABI test being *ONE OF* 'the approved exams', but not *THE ONLY* 'approved exam'.

    I think that every state should have a good statewide inspector association, and that all inspectors in that state should be a member of their state association ... not by "requirement" but because "they want to" and they realize "they should be participating with their fellow inspectors" in learning and education.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  20. #20
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    Default Re: 4 point inspection

    "Should" is cool. I can live with that. Just as long as both the state and the state inspectors association are not tied in together in anyway.

    For those of you that took both FABI's exam and the NHIE, what is the difference or is there no difference.

    There are only so many topics to cover and the questions could be slightly different but basically the same. It has been a long time since I took the NHIE so I do not even know if it has changed over time.

    I flicked through a few books, took the test and past it.


  21. #21
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    Default Re: 4 point inspection

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    For those of you that took both FABI's exam and the NHIE, what is the difference or is there no difference.



    The difference is purely political. FABI's only goal is to provide an an entrance exam for their members that represents typical construction methods and conditions found in Florida. The NHIE's goal on the other hand is to promote home inspector licensing and then of course to become the preferred provider of the state licensing exam.

    This nefarious backroom lobbying degrades the efforts of the vast majority of home inspectors who believe that if they must be subjected to regulation that it be a strict consumer protection based law instead of one based on passing some watered-down exam that only filters out the truly inept. Just a cursory glance at the states where the NHIE is the state exam bears this out. In other words a licensing bill (like the one signed into law in Florida) could be lacking a Standards of Practice or provide no consumer protection whatsoever, but if there is the remotest possibility that the NHIE could become the state exam it will receive back-door support.

    In my mind the biggest mistake ASHI ever made (yes, bigger than branding) was relinquishing their exam to The Examination Board of Professional Home Inspectors who now use it to create a self-serving empire and promote junk legislation leaving ASHI the sole provider of nothing. A colossal mistake which could have only come about through bad management and poor decision making, one NACHI would have never made.

    Thanks for asking.


  22. #22
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    Default Re: 4 point inspection

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Burkeson View Post
    In my mind the biggest mistake ASHI ever made (yes, bigger than branding)
    That was certainly hard to top, I will agree with that.

    was relinquishing their exam to The Examination Board of Professional Home Inspectors who now use it to create a self-serving empire and promote junk legislation leaving ASHI the sole provider of nothing.
    Versus ASHI using the ASHI test to accomplish that same national goal?? That's what they were doing, and why they created the EBPHI, so it would not look so much 'ASHI controlled'.

    "ASHI the sole provider of nothing"

    I disagree with that to the extent that (me, defending ASHI? who would have though) ASHI *can serve* as a provider of continuing education for home inspectors across the country, not all states have state home inspector associations which can do that job. Thankfully, there are many which have good state associations, such as CREIA, FABI, GAHI, just to name a few.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  23. #23
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    Default Re: 4 point inspection

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    I disagree with that to the extent that (me, defending ASHI? who would have though) ASHI *can serve* as a provider of continuing education for home inspectors across the country, not all states have state home inspector associations which can do that job. Thankfully, there are many which have good state associations, such as CREIA, FABI, GAHI, just to name a few.



    I (who would have thunk) agree, but what you fail to recognize is that ASHI has no exclusive products anymore like their exam or their SoP. Yes, ASHI is a great source of continuing education but it is nothing special and regardless of your personal views NACHI has become a powerhouse in both entry level education & continuing education, much of it delivered electronically where inspectors can learn from it at their own pace.

    In the case of rising costs, I would expect NACHI's approach regarding all forms of education will only continue to expand. In life it is so much harder to regain a lost edge that it almost never happens.


  24. #24
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4 point inspection

    You know, I have taken 2 different home inspector courses and their test and then their final test. I have taken all NACHI offered and some time ago what ASHI offered. I also took the Texas Real Estate Commissions test. Also thru the years the continuing ed classes. In all I thought they were all pretty much the same. I did actually like NHIE. I did get a pretty good run of head scratching questions that I was sort of prepared for. Every one of these organization change there questions all the time.

    I just don't really see any difference.


  25. #25
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    Default Re: 4 point inspection

    Ok,
    I contacted FABI and requested an info package.
    there are diff levels of membership. At this time, my real interest is in 4 pt insp. the ability to do citizens and some general forms to use.
    Do I need to be a full member to get what I need?


  26. #26
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    Default Re: 4 point inspection

    Quote Originally Posted by chris nor View Post
    Ok,
    I contacted FABI and requested an info package.
    there are diff levels of membership. At this time, my real interest is in 4 pt insp. the ability to do citizens and some general forms to use.
    Do I need to be a full member to get what I need?



    I think yes, check it out at the link below. FABI & ASHI have almost the same entry requirements now.

    FABI's Membership requirements.


  27. #27
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    Default Re: 4 point inspection

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    You know, I have taken 2 different home inspector courses and their test and then their final test. I have taken all NACHI offered and some time ago what ASHI offered. I also took the Texas Real Estate Commissions test. Also thru the years the continuing ed classes. In all I thought they were all pretty much the same. I did actually like NHIE. I did get a pretty good run of head scratching questions that I was sort of prepared for. Every one of these organization change there questions all the time.

    I just don't really see any difference.
    A little more thread drift....

    The NHIE changes every year with two new exams going online. Right at 30% of the questions are removed and replaced with new questions. Then every 4 years the entire exam is changed based on a study of the profession, this is called a roll delineation study (RDS). In layman terms, this is a study of what a home inspectors does. What is their job. Right at 40 home inspectors from all over the country are gathered for several days under the auspice of professional test developers and they define what a home inspector should do during a normal home inspection. Then this is sent to over 5,000 home inspectors across the country for their input. I'm sure many of you have participated in this over the years.

    Once all of the results are in, a New exam "Blueprint" is created and this is then what the new series of the NHIE exams will be based on. This process then repeats itself in another 4 years. This keeps the exam fresh and updated as the profession changes.

    This just took place and we will be seeing the results this fall in the NHIE that folks take.

    As for the individual states, this is not a problem for EBPHI. Specific state modules can be, have been and are being developed. Right now 2 states are in the process of doing this. So what you end up with is the NHIE and a state specific module. Most of the modules are 20-25 or so questions. By doing it this way the person takes the NHIE and this then allows them to use that exam to apply for an additional license in states that require the NHIE (without having to retake the exam). IL did not do this with their exam, they wanted to ad questions to the NHIE thus changing the exam. Now folks in IL have to take the NHIE if they want a license in any of the adjoining licensed states that require the NHIE.

    Last edited by Scott Patterson; 07-14-2008 at 07:17 AM.
    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

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