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08-18-2007, 06:48 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 579
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Its Offical - ASHI Denounces Florida Legislation
Originally Posted by ASHI Reporter
Florida to Require Home Inspector Licensing
by Bob Kociolek
Published August 2007
In 2010, Florida will become the 32nd state to regulate home inspectors. Unfortunately, in our opinion, the bill signed by the governor in June of this year gives Florida inspectors and the public one of the worst licensing bills in the country. Florida ASHI members and their leaders have been beating back bad bills for years, but this year they were up against overwhelming forces. The good guys don’t always win.
You can read the full article here.
As a Certified ASHI member, local ASHI board member and a fifth year Florida home inspector I am saddened that we were unable to prevent this bill that serves no apparent worthwhile purpose from becoming law. Furthermore, the associations who promoted this bill have won the hollowest of victories and have heaped shame upon themselves by helping the passage of the worst licensing bill in this nation’s history.
The true leaders of this state are now faced with the task of somehow trying to make something out of the mess left in the wake of this bills passage. One of the things that I would like to see take place is any group who worked in any way to support the passage of this bill should be excluded from future talks based on their poor judgment.
Joe Burkeson
Discussion encouraged.
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08-18-2007, 08:11 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Duncanville, Tx
Posts: 1,086
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Re: Its Offical - ASHI Denounces Florida Legislation
Using that logic... as someone who has opposed ANY KIND of inspector licensing, you should be excluded no matter what.
Everyone, irrespective of past mistakes, should be put into the forum of advancing the profession... not just those who have agreed with or against the current legislation. My opinion is those who are in need of remedial training regarding the ramifications of having such a watered down bill, should be the ones re-educated on the 'whys' and 'hows' the bill will negatively impact the profession and public.
BTW--I wasn't aware that ASHI 'certified' it's members. I thought it was just a plain ole member who has met certain requirements BEFORE being dubbed a full Member-- didn't know certification existed. Shows what I knew about ASHI.
__________________
"If con is the opposite of pro, is Congress the opposite of progress?"
Richard Rushing, HCRI
Duncanville, Tx.
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08-18-2007, 08:29 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 579
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Re: Its Official - ASHI Denounces Florida Legislation
Originally Posted by Richard Rushing
BTW--I wasn't aware that ASHI 'certified' it's members. I thought it was just a plain ole member who has met certain requirements BEFORE being dubbed a full Member-- didn't know certification existed. Shows what I knew about ASHI.
Glad I could help in your education, stick around, I still have a few things to teach. 
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08-18-2007, 12:55 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 27
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Re: Its Offical - ASHI Denounces Florida Legislation
"The next FABI conference is September 7-9 in Boca Raton, Florida. The meeting will be held at the Marriott Boca Raton at Boca Center located at 5150 Town Center Circle/Boca Raton, FL 33486.
We will have JR Burke, NAHI Legislation Chair, on hand to answer your questions about the new home inspector legislation. "
I plan on attending this meeting and asking a few tough questions of Mr. Burke.
I also will NOT be renewing my FABI membership.
I encourage many to attend this meeting and let Mr. Burke know what you think of this bill. I also encourage other FABI members to not renew their memberships. This is the ONLY true way to let them know of our disaproval.
FABI was not at all forthcoming with their support of this bill and I am learning they were working behind the scenes to support it, without the knowledge of their membership.
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08-18-2007, 01:25 PM
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Posts: 27
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Re: Its Offical - ASHI Denounces Florida Legislation
BTW,
The effort to orgainize against this was pretty pathetic. I sent emails as did a few others. I think the general HI population doesn't really realize how bad this bill is.
I think we just got lazy. In the past we knew that Jeb would veto any bad bills like this. Charlie is clearly not as smart or on the ball as Jeb was when it comes to business matters.
It is not too late, although the road will be rough. I think we need to orgainze, and hire our own lobbiest, then get a new bill through.
ASHI really has not officially denounced the bill as I understand it. That article was written by a FL ASHI member and published in the Reporter.
I would like for ASHI to officially come out against this bill. It would make our job of getting a new, better bill written.
HERE IS THE ARTICLE. YOU CANNOT READ IT UNLESS YOU LOG IN SO I'LL POST IT HERE.
Florida to Require Home Inspector Licensing
by Bob Kociolek
Published August 2007
In 2010, Florida will become the 32nd state to regulate home inspectors. Unfortunately, in our opinion, the bill signed by the governor in June of this year gives Florida inspectors and the public one of the worst licensing bills in the country. Florida ASHI members and their leaders have been beating back bad bills for years, but this year they were up against overwhelming forces. The good guys don’t always win.
The following is the e-mail alert that Florida ASHI members sent to Governor Crist, urging him to veto the bill. It gives a good rundown of the new law’s flaws and gives ASHI members a list of things they can do to try to change things before the bill takes effect.
Letter to the governor of Florida
I am writing as a Florida member of the American Society of Home Inspectors, the oldest, largest and most-respected professional society of home inspectors in America and in Florida. I have reviewed SB 2234, and I oppose it and urge you to veto it for the following reasons.
This bill does not protect the consumer. In fact, it will harm the consumer.
• NO EXPERIENCE REQUIREMENTS. If this bill passes, anyone can be a state-licensed home Inspector and never have completed a home inspection or even attended a home inspection prior to being licensed. This clearly will harm the consumer.
• LIMITED EDUCATION REQUIREMENTS. An education requirement of only 120 hours is not adequate. As an example, a hair stylist in Florida needs 1,200 hours annually. To properly inspect homes, an extensive knowledge of the various systems and components in homes of all types and ages is required. This limited educational requirement will harm the consumer.
• NO PROVISIONS SPECIFYING WHO IS QUALIFIED TO TRAIN HOME INSPECTORS. This may allow for poor or no relevant education to be provided during the minimal training hours required by this bill. This will clearly harm the consumer.
• NO STANDARDS OF PRACTICE. With no Standards of Practice, what is the consumer paying for? What is to be inspected? How are these items to be inspected? With no Standards of Practice, the consumer will not know what to expect from the home inspector. This clearly will harm the consumer.
• NO CODE OF ETHICS. Without a Code of Ethics, the consumer may be at risk for a number of potential conflicts of interest. As an example, home inspectors who repair the homes they inspect may lose their objectivity and work for their own interests and not their customer’s. Having no Code of Ethics will clearly harm the consumer.
• NO PSYCHOMETRICALLY VALID EXAM. This type of testing for home inspectors has been developed over many years. It is used in most other states and is also used by many professional associations to qualify inspectors. The most widely accepted test in use is known as the National Home Inspector Examination. Without proper and valid testing, the consumer may be harmed.
• WEAK COMPARED TO OTHER STATES. Our parent association, the American Society of Home Inspectors (ASHI), follows home inspector legislation in all states. ASHI rates licensing bills as to educational requirements, experience requirements, ethics training, etc. As written, this bill will be the weakest home inspector legislation in the entire United States. Weak bills harm the consumer.
EXAMPLE: You are purchasing a home. This possibly will be the biggest investment you will ever make. The safety, comfort, and financial well-being of your family are at stake. You hire a state licensed home inspector to help protect your investment. In your mind, the state has rigorously checked, verified, and certified the qualifications of your home inspector. However, if this bill passes, the inspector may have:
• never previously inspected a home
• only completed a three-week course to unknown standards
• no Standards of Practice to follow
• no Code of Ethics to follow
• never completed a psychometrically valid exam
Given these facts, this bill will mislead and harm the consumer. The consumer would be better off with no state licensing that continues to allow the market and professional associations to regulate the industry. This is preferred to being stuck with a bad law that gives a false sense of security.
For more information on ASHI’s strict policies and requirements to become a Certified Home Inspector, you can visit its Web site at Home Inspector at American Society of Home Inspectors: American Society Of Home Inspectors, ASHI, ASHI Home Inspection, ASHI Inspector. Many states have mirrored ASHI’s requirements for certification in their legislation. If I can be of any help to you as you move forward with a quality bill that really does good for the consumer, please contact me and I will be glad to assist you any way that I can.
In the meantime, for the protection of the homebuyers in Florida, I respectfully ask that you veto SB 2234.
State sessions wind to a close, but don’t let your guard down
By the end of this month, only seven states — Illinois, Massachusetts, Michigan, New Jersey, New York, Ohio and Pennsylvania — will still be in session. If you live or inspect in any of those states, stay on guard for any surprises, either in introduced legislation or in legislation introduced at the last minute. Check with ASHI’s Legislative Action Center for updates and make sure you stay in contact with your lobbyist, if you have one, and with your elected officials. Let them know who you are and what you do and how interested you are in any legislation that affects inspectors.
Last edited by Bruce Lunsford : 08-18-2007 at 01:33 PM.
Reason: Added article text
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08-18-2007, 01:25 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Mateo, CA
Posts: 960
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Re: Its Offical - ASHI Denounces Florida Legislation
Ahhhh State Licensing, the cure all. I wish I knew of one trade, service or profession that benefiited consumers by state's licensing its practitioners?
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08-18-2007, 02:05 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ormond Beach, Florida
Posts: 6,514
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Re: Its Offical - ASHI Denounces Florida Legislation
Originally Posted by Bruce Lunsford
FABI was not at all forthcoming with their support of this bill and I am learning they were working behind the scenes to support it, without the knowledge of their membership.
That is about as far from the truth as one can get.
Bruce,
You say you area a FABI member.
For how long?
How many FABI meetings have you attended?
If you attended the meetings, did you *attend* the meetings ... or just 'hang out' outside with a few others?
FABI and licensing as been discussed at many meetings. FABI *MEMBERS* have even voted on whether or not to support licensing. FABI *MEMBERS* overwhelmingly *VOTED FOR* that course of action and stance.
Not all FABI members voted for it, one Joe B. did not, then has complained ever since that the vote as not "democratic".
Huh? Even he cannot explain that statement and stance, as *I* was at at least one or two of the FABI meetings those votes took place and *I* saw *JOE B.* there at one or two of those meetings. If asking all FABI members present to vote on something and those members vote on it ... for the life of me I cannot understand why that *is not* a democratic way of an association working.
*THE BOARD* did not take that action on their own, *THE MEMBERSHIP* "voted for it".
Joe B., in not getting his lonely way, considers it to not be democratic if Joe B.'s way is not what the MAJORITY wanted.
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08-18-2007, 06:29 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 307
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Re: Its Offical - ASHI Denounces Florida Legislation
Originally Posted by Bruce Lunsford
BTW,
The effort to orgainize against this was pretty pathetic. I sent emails as did a few others. I think the general HI population doesn't really realize how bad this bill is.
I think we just got lazy. In the past we knew that Jeb would veto any bad bills like this. Charlie is clearly not as smart or on the ball as Jeb was when it comes to business matters.
It is not too late, although the road will be rough. I think we need to orgainze, and hire our own lobbiest, then get a new bill through.
ASHI really has not officially denounced the bill as I understand it. That article was written by a FL ASHI member and published in the Reporter.
I would like for ASHI to officially come out against this bill. It would make our job of getting a new, better bill written.
HERE IS THE ARTICLE. YOU CANNOT READ IT UNLESS YOU LOG IN SO I'LL POST IT HERE.
Florida to Require Home Inspector Licensing
by Bob Kociolek
Published August 2007
In 2010, Florida will become the 32nd state to regulate home inspectors. Unfortunately, in our opinion, the bill signed by the governor in June of this year gives Florida inspectors and the public one of the worst licensing bills in the country. Florida ASHI members and their leaders have been beating back bad bills for years, but this year they were up against overwhelming forces. The good guys don’t always win.
The following is the e-mail alert that Florida ASHI members sent to Governor Crist, urging him to veto the bill. It gives a good rundown of the new law’s flaws and gives ASHI members a list of things they can do to try to change things before the bill takes effect.
Letter to the governor of Florida
I am writing as a Florida member of the American Society of Home Inspectors, the oldest, largest and most-respected professional society of home inspectors in America and in Florida. I have reviewed SB 2234, and I oppose it and urge you to veto it for the following reasons.
This bill does not protect the consumer. In fact, it will harm the consumer.
• NO EXPERIENCE REQUIREMENTS. If this bill passes, anyone can be a state-licensed home Inspector and never have completed a home inspection or even attended a home inspection prior to being licensed. This clearly will harm the consumer.
• LIMITED EDUCATION REQUIREMENTS. An education requirement of only 120 hours is not adequate. As an example, a hair stylist in Florida needs 1,200 hours annually. To properly inspect homes, an extensive knowledge of the various systems and components in homes of all types and ages is required. This limited educational requirement will harm the consumer.
• NO PROVISIONS SPECIFYING WHO IS QUALIFIED TO TRAIN HOME INSPECTORS. This may allow for poor or no relevant education to be provided during the minimal training hours required by this bill. This will clearly harm the consumer.
• NO STANDARDS OF PRACTICE. With no Standards of Practice, what is the consumer paying for? What is to be inspected? How are these items to be inspected? With no Standards of Practice, the consumer will not know what to expect from the home inspector. This clearly will harm the consumer.
• NO CODE OF ETHICS. Without a Code of Ethics, the consumer may be at risk for a number of potential conflicts of interest. As an example, home inspectors who repair the homes they inspect may lose their objectivity and work for their own interests and not their customer’s. Having no Code of Ethics will clearly harm the consumer.
• NO PSYCHOMETRICALLY VALID EXAM. This type of testing for home inspectors has been developed over many years. It is used in most other states and is also used by many professional associations to qualify inspectors. The most widely accepted test in use is known as the National Home Inspector Examination. Without proper and valid testing, the consumer may be harmed.
• WEAK COMPARED TO OTHER STATES. Our parent association, the American Society of Home Inspectors (ASHI), follows home inspector legislation in all states. ASHI rates licensing bills as to educational requirements, experience requirements, ethics training, etc. As written, this bill will be the weakest home inspector legislation in the entire United States. Weak bills harm the consumer.
EXAMPLE: You are purchasing a home. This possibly will be the biggest investment you will ever make. The safety, comfort, and financial well-being of your family are at stake. You hire a state licensed home inspector to help protect your investment. In your mind, the state has rigorously checked, verified, and certified the qualifications of your home inspector. However, if this bill passes, the inspector may have:
• never previously inspected a home
• only completed a three-week course to unknown standards
• no Standards of Practice to follow
• no Code of Ethics to follow
• never completed a psychometrically valid exam
Given these facts, this bill will mislead and harm the consumer. The consumer would be better off with no state licensing that continues to allow the market and professional associations to regulate the industry. This is preferred to being stuck with a bad law that gives a false sense of security.
For more information on ASHI’s strict policies and requirements to become a Certified Home Inspector, you can visit its Web site at Home Inspector at American Society of Home Inspectors: American Society Of Home Inspectors, ASHI, ASHI Home Inspection, ASHI Inspector. Many states have mirrored ASHI’s requirements for certification in their legislation. If I can be of any help to you as you move forward with a quality bill that really does good for the consumer, please contact me and I will be glad to assist you any way that I can.
In the meantime, for the protection of the homebuyers in Florida, I respectfully ask that you veto SB 2234.
State sessions wind to a close, but don’t let your guard down
By the end of this month, only seven states — Illinois, Massachusetts, Michigan, New Jersey, New York, Ohio and Pennsylvania — will still be in session. If you live or inspect in any of those states, stay on guard for any surprises, either in introduced legislation or in legislation introduced at the last minute. Check with ASHI’s Legislative Action Center for updates and make sure you stay in contact with your lobbyist, if you have one, and with your elected officials. Let them know who you are and what you do and how interested you are in any legislation that affects inspectors.
Wow! With all that, why won't ASHI officially come out against this bill? Getting the big guns behind you sure can't hurt.
__________________
I say lets merge all the home inspection organizations into one.
Seepaluce
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08-18-2007, 07:11 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 579
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Re: Its Official - ASHI Denounces Florida Legislation
Originally Posted by Jerry Peck
Not all FABI members voted for it, one Joe B. did not, then has complained ever since that the vote as not "democratic".
Saturday night and Jerry Peck is having flashbacks again.
Jerry,
I voted with my feet and so did many other disgusted now ex-FABI members, BTW don't eat the purple acid.
Joe.
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08-20-2007, 05:55 PM
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Posts: 27
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Re: Its Offical - ASHI Denounces Florida Legislation
Originally Posted by Jerry Peck
That is about as far from the truth as one can get.
Bruce,
You say you area a FABI member.
For how long?
How many FABI meetings have you attended?
If you attended the meetings, did you *attend* the meetings ... or just 'hang out' outside with a few others?
FABI and licensing as been discussed at many meetings. FABI *MEMBERS* have even voted on whether or not to support licensing. FABI *MEMBERS* overwhelmingly *VOTED FOR* that course of action and stance.
Not all FABI members voted for it, one Joe B. did not, then has complained ever since that the vote as not "democratic".
Huh? Even he cannot explain that statement and stance, as *I* was at at least one or two of the FABI meetings those votes took place and *I* saw *JOE B.* there at one or two of those meetings. If asking all FABI members present to vote on something and those members vote on it ... for the life of me I cannot understand why that *is not* a democratic way of an association working.
*THE BOARD* did not take that action on their own, *THE MEMBERSHIP* "voted for it".
Joe B., in not getting his lonely way, considers it to not be democratic if Joe B.'s way is not what the MAJORITY wanted.
Jerry, I appreciate your input here. I realize that I may not have all of my facts correct, so where I am wrong, please do correct me.
Exactly WHAT did the FABI membership vote for? Pursuit of licensing in general or did they vote for this particular license bill?
Can you show me where this was written about in the newsletter?
A true membership vote would have involved a membership mailing and vote. I never received anything.
From my point of view this was pretty much done in secret. I've been a member for about 2 years now and never once - did I ever - read anything about FABI's support of this. Sorry but I will disagree on this.
If FABI were truly up front about it, there would have been regular updates to the membership as to what they were doing. If they had been ethical about it, they would have allowed a pro and con debate before any vote.
Here's what I really don't understand. NAHI was the main force behind this from what I can tell, FABI the secondary. NAHI sent emails to home inspectors encouraging them to write to their representatives in support. If Joe *truly* was opposed to this, why was NAHI so dead on set in their support? Why didn't Joe influence NAHI?
Do YOU think this particular bill is a good bill?
Thanks Jerry.
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08-20-2007, 06:04 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 27
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Re: Its Offical - ASHI Denounces Florida Legislation
Originally Posted by Jerry McCarthy
Ahhhh State Licensing, the cure all. I wish I knew of one trade, service or profession that benefiited consumers by state's licensing its practitioners?
While I see no need for licensing, I am not against a *good* license law. This is a pathetic law that will seriously damage our profession for years to come.
Other states that enacted poor license laws have seriously suffered. Chicago tripled the number of inspectors, AZ suffered tremendously, as have other states like Wisconsin with it's original bill.
There is a long history of the HI profession getting devisated by poor license laws. People with their minds already made up ignore the facts and charge head on.
It's really pathetic how many people do not do their homework and just blindly support these bad bills.
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08-20-2007, 06:18 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ormond Beach, Florida
Posts: 6,514
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Re: Its Offical - ASHI Denounces Florida Legislation
Originally Posted by Bruce Lunsford
A true membership vote would have involved a membership mailing and vote. I never received anything.
No, a true membership vote is taken at EVERY quarterly meeting when needed from attendees at the meeting. New business, old business, when something needs to be voted on, those who take the time to attend the meetings are the ones who get asked for their vote.
You are thinking of the way officers and directors are elected and voted on.
From my point of view this was pretty much done in secret.
How many meetings did you attend?
I've been a member for about 2 years now and never once - did I ever - read anything about FABI's support of this. Sorry but I will disagree on this.
How many meetings did you attend?
If FABI were truly up front about it, there would have been regular updates to the membership as to what they were doing.
They do.
How many meetings did you attend?
If they had been ethical about it, they would have allowed a pro and con debate before any vote.
They did.
How many meetings did you attend?
Do YOU think this particular bill is a good bill?
Nope.
I worked for licensing for about 10-12 years, let's see, from the beginning in 1990-91 during the Sunrise Study, through to about 3-4 years ago.
I presented a bill to everyone which was a strict licensing bill, modeled after the contractors licensing law. Creating two or three categories of home inspectors (the two or three was a choice to be decided on), with home inspectors who would be allowed to inspect new homes having one or more code certifications (after all *NEW* homes are built to code, or should be, and thus should be inspected with knowledge of that code, additionally, this would have put the home builders association in with us as they would then recognize those home inspectors and work with us on new home inspections - we had a FABI member who was working with the home builders association members and board for that very goal and was achieving it).
Also, *I* think that *ALL* home inspectors "who are in business on the day that licensing becomes effective" should be grandfathered in. There is nothing wrong with grandfathering in, the same people currently "doing inspections" would "still be doing those same inspections" - nothing would be lost or "bad" about that.
Licensing is not "to protect ones turf', nor is licensing 'for the here and now', licensing is, should be, 'for the future'. Everyone who is grandfathered in *WILL* "retire", "go out of business", or "die" - it is a given that one of those three things *WILL* happen. During that time, all new home inspectors must meet the new licensing requirements - something they know about *BEFORE* they go into business. No surprises.
Many of the newer inspector wanted to use licensing to 'protect their turf' and not allow grandfathering at all. There is no basis for "not allowing" grandfathering in of anyone currently in business - nothing will get worse because of it, and those who are grandfathered in will still need to meet the continuing education requirements, thereby improving their knowledge, and, hopefully, their inspections. Just because someone passes some type of state mandated test does not mean they will do a better inspection, it just means they know enough to pass the test.
Passing a test and doing better inspections *HAVE NO RELATIONSHIP* to each other. Passing a test based on schooling simply means you have most likely learned what the 'already in business' guys learned the hard long way. Passing a test *DOE NOT* mean one will do a better inspection.
I know an old timer, who even taught classes, who probably did 10,000 inspections, and, his last inspections were very little different than his first inspections. Knowledge does not mean performance, it just means ... knowledge is present.
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08-20-2007, 06:38 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 460
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Re: Its Offical - ASHI Denounces Florida Legislation
Being a member of ASHI is like being a member of Triple AAA. All you have to do to be a member is to meet their qualifications.. which any body can if they pay the membership fee. Call the Orlando AHJ office and tell them you are a member of ASHI and see how far you get in getting a permit to do ANYTHING. Let us know how it goes.....
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08-20-2007, 07:04 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 579
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Re: Its Offical - ASHI Denounces Florida Legislation
Originally Posted by James Duffin
Being a member of ASHI is like being a member of Triple AAA. All you have to do to be a member is to meet their qualifications.. which any body can if they pay the membership fee. Call the Orlando AHJ office and tell them you are a member of ASHI and see how far you get in getting a permit to do ANYTHING. Let us know how it goes.....
If it is as bad as you say right now, tell me what will be the value of HI association membership be once HI licensing is instituted?
Home inspection associations who supported state licensing will live to rue the day they made that fatal mistake with a wailing & gnashing of teeth.
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08-20-2007, 07:10 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Mesa AZ
Posts: 130
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Re: Its Offical - ASHI Denounces Florida Legislation
AZ suffered tremendously, as have other states like Wisconsin with it's original bill.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Arizona suffered?
Where did you hear this? I don't know where else you may have gotten that info other than from gromickos puppets.
Truth is the only ones that suffered are the ones that were never qualified in the first place, guess most of them figured they were instantly qualified based soley on the states min requirements, many of them also figured buying an additional certificiation for $289.00 would be the road to success, 80% of them are also gone..
The only one that suffered any noticable loss in AZ was gromicko, that was a $ loss 
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