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  1. #1
    Brian Thomas's Avatar
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    Default Attic trusses pulling apart

    House built in 2005...garage has poured foundation...small cracks on both side walls that go all the way thru foundation to outside of house.

    But what really got me was when i got into the attic above the garage. I saw three seperate trusses where the gusset plates were pulling out of the wood. I wasnt sure if the cracks in the garage walls were related to he gusset plates. All the trusses in the attic above the house were fine. Take a look at these pics and please tell me what you think. Have you guys ever seen this? If so, what could be the cause of it?

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Attic trusses pulling apart

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Thomas View Post
    Have you guys ever seen this?
    .

    A lot.

    If so, what could be the cause of it?
    .

    Mishandling the trusses when they were being installed ... 99.94% of the time what will have been the cause.

    Can they be repaired? Yes, easily.

    How? With three basic steps, in the following order, anything else and it is as though the trusses were never repaired:

    1. Have structural engineer design appropriate repairs, preferably the truss manufacturers engineer, but any structural engineer can do it.

    2. Repair it in accordance with the engineer's design.

    3. Have the structural engineer who issued the repair design inspect it and issue a letter stating that it was repaired in accordance to the design.

    I know, there will be some who will say that is overkill, and to them I say ... too bad ... as that is THE ONLY ACCEPTABLE WAY to repair a truss. Then add: You guys need to quit counting your buyers pennies and start actually PROTECTING YOUR CLIENT'S BEST INTEREST. To wit, when they go to sell, if they do not have 3. above, they may well be SOL and have to get 1. and 3. again, do you think that is in your client's best interests?

    An excellent suggestion someone here made (I did not think of it, but wish I had): staple a COPY of that paperwork to the trusses. I forgot who said that, but that is a brilliant idea.

    Last edited by Jerry Peck; 12-09-2008 at 06:53 PM. Reason: speelin'
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Attic trusses pulling apart

    If you've ever seen them deliver trusses, you've likely seen them literally dumped off the end of a truck. Often on to an irregular surface...such as a sloped lot or on top of other materials. This kind of damage is way too common.
    As Jerry said, repairs should only be done under an engineer's supervision.
    Without more info/pics, it's impossible to say if the truss damage and wall cracks are related, but I doubt it. (Based only on the brief description and the few truss pics.)


  4. #4
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    Default Re: Attic trusses pulling apart

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Barre View Post
    If you've ever seen them deliver trusses, you've likely seen them literally dumped off the end of a truck. Often on to an irregular surface...such as a sloped lot or on top of other materials. This kind of damage is way too common.
    As Jerry said, repairs should only be done under an engineer's supervision.
    Without more info/pics, it's impossible to say if the truss damage and wall cracks are related, but I doubt it. (Based only on the brief description and the few truss pics.)
    I have seen that before and that is certainly a possibility. Its just odd to me that it only happend to the ones in the garage attic and it was the same connection on each truss. I would expect there to be broken connections at other spots too. Oh well, I wrote it up and recommened it be looked at.

    Quote Originally Posted by fritzkelly View Post
    Too much s**t stored in the attic!
    Nothing was in the attic


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Attic trusses pulling apart

    The home wasn't very old, so it was possible that the current owner is the original one, and there was never a lot of stuff in the attic. Of course, maybe there was and they moved it already. But a load from lots 'o stuff on the bottom chord should result in a more regular downward shift of the web, and a downward movement of the gussets, not what we see here. There's too much lateral movement here for me to guess it to be overloaded bottom chords.
    But it is also quite possible that the garage trusses differed in design from those of the house itself and may have been delivered separately. If so, they could be the only ones that suffered delivery damage as shown.


  6. #6
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    Default Re: Attic trusses pulling apart

    Quote Originally Posted by fritzkelly View Post
    Ever??
    House was only 3 years old and has been empty for over a year. There was nothing in the attic at the time but Im not sure if it had been used previously. However it was very clean up there and didnt look like much was ever up there


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    Default Re: Attic trusses pulling apart

    If you've ever watched them dump the trusses off the truck, move the trusses around with a Bobcat or a dozer, pick them up with a fork lift fitted to a high lift like a Lull, yanked up by the crane, swung into things, and generally treated as though they were not engineered trusses but rather like they were recently felled trees ... you would understand my 99.94% statement.

    It is not unusual at all to have several trusses at one location damaged, the trusses will be picked up in groups as they are moved around lifted, man-handled, etc.

    Proper truss handling? You mean someone actually understands how to handle trusses and why?

    What you been smokin' boy?

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  8. #8
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    Default Re: Attic trusses pulling apart

    Quote Originally Posted by fritzkelly View Post
    Jerry, I see your point but it would be a little weird to go ahead and install them anyway knowing they were this badly damaged. I know, we see crap like this every day, but this is a bit excessive, even for a Bubba on a Monday morning.
    As one who built homes for 25 years, I'd say it's entirely too common. Admittedly, I built custom homes, not tract homes. I don't think I used mf'd trusses more than twice in that span. But the problem is the same: unskilled, uncaring sub-contractors.

    Bubba on Monday...or Tuesday..or Wednesday. It doesn't matter. Ever hear a sub utter the phrase "you can't see it from my house?" All too common. As is the thinking that the problem won't show up until after the 1 year warranty is up -- and after the sub has been paid.


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    Default Re: Attic trusses pulling apart

    As you're looking at trussed keep in mind it's not just stuff in the attic that can lead to damage. Last week I found a truss with a broken web member. It was a knot in a piece of wood that probably shouldn't have been used in the first place. What mostly likely led to it breaking was the seller's rock wall aparatus in the garage. It had actually been taken down so I couldn't see where or how it was attached to the ceiling but I don't imagine people hanging from the lower truss cord helped things any.

    In the end it didn't really matter how it was damaged. It needed to be looked at by a manufactuer or engineer and fixed. My main point is to look outside the box. Or, in this case, the attic. There are still a lot of engine pulling mechanics living in newer houses. Watch for big holes or patches in the garage ceiling.


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    Default Re: Attic trusses pulling apart

    Quote Originally Posted by fritzkelly View Post
    Jerry, I see your point but it would be a little weird to go ahead and install them anyway knowing they were this badly damaged. I know, we see crap like this every day, but this is a bit excessive, even for a Bubba on a Monday morning.
    Not weird at all.

    Those guys are getting paid to *set trusses*, not to *set around* waiting for the trusses to be repaired.

    The typical scenario is (and it happens every day on every single job site), set the trusses ... REGARDLESS ... contact the supt. (if the job is a big enough job to have one) so the supt. can get the engineering needed to fix them. They even set *COMPLETELY BROKEN* trusses, *WITH PIECES MISSING* ... get the supt. to get the truss engineer to design a repair, make the repair, ... oh, wait, the supt. probably got sidetracked doing something else and ... yep, happens everyday on every job site.

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  11. #11
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    Default Re: Attic trusses pulling apart

    suggest a standard repair detail from a lumber yard. ..nothing fancy
    it's broke ,just patch it and move on.. typically a 12 by 48 or so 3/4 ply fastened 3 inches on center.


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    Default Re: Attic trusses pulling apart

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Pultar View Post
    suggest a standard repair detail from a lumber yard. ..nothing fancy
    it's broke ,just patch it and move on.. typically a 12 by 48 or so 3/4 ply fastened 3 inches on center.
    Richard,

    You don't "get it" do you?

    Your job, the reason you are hired as a home inspector, is to look out for your CLIENT'S interests, not those of the seller, the real estate agent, or Joe Blow down the street.

    Your CLIENT'S interest is to know what is needed to do several things, not the least of which are: Know what is required to repair it CORRECTLY, and, so that when they become the seller, that repair does not come back to haunt them and make them spend more money.

    We are talking about ENGINEERED TRUSSES, not "rafters", and ENGINEERED TRUSSES must only be repaired in accordance with ... (drum roll) ... *ENGINEERING*.

    Richard, why, or why are you always looking out for someone other than your client? Your entire attitude of 'code be danged' is not in your client's best interest. Maybe your best interest, you think, but you are not paying yourself, your client is paying you, you are SUPPOSED TO BE on THEIR SIDE.

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    Default Re: Attic trusses pulling apart

    Quote Originally Posted by fritzkelly View Post
    Jerry, I see your point but it would be a little weird to go ahead and install them anyway knowing they were this badly damaged. I know, we see crap like this every day, but this is a bit excessive, even for a Bubba on a Monday morning.
    Fritz. They must care a little more up north.
    Here in the valley I see this and, plates mangled/ hammered out of the way at gable vents, plates barely attached where they hang HVAC equipment on 4-5 out of every 10 new homes.


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    Default Re: Attic trusses pulling apart

    Coming from my old framing days....if the trusses are broke around 3 feet inside the garage wall it could have been from the laborer's walking on them carrying the other trusses.

    Every single family house I framed (100's) we never used a bobcat or crane to set trusses. It was pure grunt and lift! We would have two guys hand them up to two guys on top.

    If the trusses were really awkward and heavy...those two guys would set one down closest to the edge then stack the others on top walking from front to back.

    The bigger ones the guys would walk about two to three feet inside the wall and use the trusses for a walking area. Occasionally one would come apart at the gusset. Scary but it did happen. We would just beat them back together and carry on!

    Yes I know now this isn't the proper way to repair them!


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    Talking Re: Attic trusses pulling apart

    Richard, you are absolutely correct, we have No control of how it is to be repaired or cannot even suggest how it is to be repaired unless we have a license in that field, such as Jerry which he is obligated by law (not being a home inspector)


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    Default Re: Attic trusses pulling apart

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Mount View Post
    Richard, you are absolutely correct, we have No control of how it is to be repaired or cannot even suggest how it is to be repaired unless we have a license in that field, such as Jerry which he is obligated by law (not being a home inspector)
    .

    Tony,

    "No control of how it is to be repaired or cannot even suggest how it is to be repaired"

    You are correct in that we, as home inspectors, have "No control of how it is to be repaired".

    However, you are incorrect in the following "or cannot even suggest how it is to be repaired".

    The 'suggestion' on how it is repaired, as you are calling it, is to call for "a structural engineer to design the repairs".

    If YOU cannot "suggest" that, what are you even there for? Why are you even taking your client's money ... let alone diamond rings ...

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    Default Re: Attic trusses pulling apart

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Mount View Post
    Richard, you are absolutely correct, we have No control of how it is to be repaired or cannot even suggest how it is to be repaired unless we have a license in that field, such as Jerry which he is obligated by law (not being a home inspector)

    Time for a poll.
    I don't know an inspector that does not recommend the repair to be done only to an engineers specs.


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    Default Re: Attic trusses pulling apart

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Tony,
    If YOU cannot "suggest" that, what are you even there for? Why are you even taking your client's money ... let alone diamond rings ...

    Now, now, it is the Holiday Season, gentlemen. Let's all try to share the spirit...


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    Default Re: Attic trusses pulling apart

    From the 2006 IRC;

    R301.1.3 Engineered design.
    When a building of otherwise
    conventional construction contains structural elements
    exceeding the limits of Section R301 or otherwise not conforming
    to this code, these elements shall be designed in accordance
    with accepted engineering practice.



    It really doesn't say by an engineer but in accordance
    with accepted engineering practice.

    In my opinion who would be able to determine if it were "in accordance
    with accepted engineering practice?" I would think an engineer.

    Are you going to take someones word?.... Oh yes! This repair is in accordance with accepted engineering practice!....

    Who says so?

    ......I do!!!

    And who are you?

    A framer!

    Oh.....OK go ahead!!......yeah right!




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    Default Re: Attic trusses pulling apart

    Wayne

    Here is that complete section, with different highlighting.

    R301.1.3 Engineered design.
    When a building of otherwise
    conventional construction contains structural elements
    exceeding the limits of Section R301 or otherwise not conforming
    to this code, these elements shall be designed in accordance
    with accepted engineering practice. The extent of such
    design need only demonstrate compliance of nonconventional
    elements with other applicable provisions and shall be compatible
    with the performance of the conventional framed system.
    Engineered design in accordance with the
    International Building Code

    is permitted for all buildings and structures, and parts
    thereof, included in the scope of this code.

    If the roof structure was "rafters", that first part would apply, as would your aptly worded opinion of "In my opinion who would be able to determine if it were "in accordance with accepted engineering practice?" I would think an engineer."

    However, that roof structure is not "rafters", it is "engineered trusses".

    Now, with regard to that photo ...

    R802.10.4 Alterations to trusses.
    Truss members shall not
    be cut, notched, drilled, spliced or otherwise altered in any
    way without the approval of a registered design professional.
    Alterations resulting in the addition of load (e.g., HVAC
    equipment, water heater) that exceeds the design load for the
    truss shall not be permitted without verification that the truss

    is capable of supporting such additional loading.




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  21. #21
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    Default Re: Attic trusses pulling apart

    the truss plate repair detail is supplied by every truss manufacturer I know.
    It is provided free to the users.in the packet of normal installation guidelines.
    The engineering was done by the company that makes the truss.
    Can't see the logic in paying for a design that is based on the values the truss people provide and the detail the truss people provide.


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    Default Re: Attic trusses pulling apart

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post

    R802.10.4 Alterations to trusses.



    Truss members shall not

    be cut, notched, drilled, spliced or otherwise altered in any


    way without the approval of a registered design professional.

    Alterations resulting in the addition of load (e.g., HVAC

    equipment, water heater) that exceeds the design load for the

    truss shall not be permitted without verification that the truss
    is capable of supporting such additional loading.








    Well, there you go.

    If the truss gusset plate came loose during unloading or pre-installation, then nothing was:
    "cut, notched, drilled, spliced or altered in any way"

    For example, If during rough driving of your automobile the lug nuts become loose, then a trip back to the factory for re-desgn is not needed. Your not re-designing the wheel system, you're simply correcting an existing design that was mis-handled. Repair the loose items and move on.

    Same as the trusses, as you stated, 99.94% of loose gussets are construction related; then simply re-attached them.

    No need to re-design the thing if they were, as you state, banged around and became loose.

    Now if you suspect that they are damaged from some other external force, then perhaps an engineer is needed. But if someone banged them against the house and they popped loose, well, see the above definition of cut, notch, altered, etc.



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    Default Re: Attic trusses pulling apart

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom D'Agostino View Post
    Well, there you go.


    If the truss gusset plate came loose during unloading or pre-installation, then nothing was:
    "cut, notched, drilled, spliced or altered in any way"



    Dom,

    Whatcha smokin'?

    " then nothing was:
    "cut, notched, drilled, spliced or altered in any way" "

    Do you understand what "or altered IN ANY WAY" means?

    Those trusses are *altered* by ... oh my goodness ... "mishandling".


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    Default Re: Attic trusses pulling apart

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Pultar View Post
    the truss plate repair detail is supplied by every truss manufacturer I know.
    It is provided free to the users.in the packet of normal installation guidelines.
    The engineering was done by the company that makes the truss.
    Can't see the logic in paying for a design that is based on the values the truss people provide and the detail the truss people provide.
    And when you do not have that truss engineering package ... ?

    Umm ... er ... you're gonna hafta pay *somebody* fer them to come out and look at the installation and design the repair.

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    Default Re: Attic trusses pulling apart

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    [/left]

    Dom,

    Whatcha smokin'?

    " then nothing was:
    "cut, notched, drilled, spliced or altered in any way" "

    Do you understand what "or altered IN ANY WAY" means?


    Those trusses are *altered* by ... oh my goodness ... "mishandling".

    I see....


    If something comes loose during shipping, I don't think that the item has been altered *IN ANY WAY*.

    If the truss becomes loose during install, I can't imagine that the truss engineer believes that the system has been altered *IN ANY WAY*.

    In other words, according to you, if a person writes their name on the truss, it has been altered *IN ANY WAY*.

    Do you believe that? Do you see that there is a margin for interpretation of the expression *IN ANY WAY*?

    While I agree with the intent of your position, it is certainly logical to expect some sort of on-site correction of minor mistakes without calling every "engineer of record" for CYA purposes.

    Dom.


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    Default Re: Attic trusses pulling apart

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom D'Agostino View Post
    I see....


    If something comes loose during shipping, I don't think that the item has been altered *IN ANY WAY*.
    I understand that *YOU* do not think of it as such, but it is. It has been "altered" (structurally). Whether that be a truss plate coming loose or a web broken - it has been altered, intentionally or not.

    In other words, according to you, if a person writes their name on the truss, it has been altered *IN ANY WAY*.
    Now who is getting ridiculous. The truss is not "altered" in that it still is as it was built. Heck, paint the dang thing pink and it does not "alter" the truss in any way, not from an engineering point, which is what this is all about.

    While I agree with the intent of your position, it is certainly logical to expect some sort of on-site correction of minor mistakes without calling every "engineer of record" for CYA purposes.
    The engineer of record is not the one who is called for, the truss engineer is (they are seldom, if ever, the engineer of record for the project), and, no, the truss engineer is not called out to CYA either.

    If, as *sometimes happens* the truss engineering package contains *certain* engineered repaired, then the truss installers may make *THOSE* repairs in accordance with that engineering - this is what Richard was saying.

    However, *many times* the truss engineering *does not address* the repairs which are needed, and in those cases it the engineer (usually the truss company engineer) will design a repair for that particular problem. Sometimes, they already have designs for that particular problem, having run across it before, in which case the design is simply pulled out of the file and send out.

    Regardless, though, if the truss *IS ALTERED IN ANY WAY*, meaning in the way, ANY WAY, that it resists the design loads, IT MUST BE REPAIRED in accordance with an engineered design - but not to CYA, because it is a *requirement*.

    Paint it pink and put smiley faces on it, that will not "alter it in any way" as concerned with regards to the loads it is engineered for ... but a loose truss plate DOES ALTER IT. As do broken webs and chords.

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    Default Re: Attic trusses pulling apart

    Jerry,

    Thanks for agreeing with me.

    I concur with your statement that sometimes we can, in fact, make simple repairs.

    if the truss *IS ALTERED IN ANY WAY*, meaning in the way, ANY WAY, that it resists the design loads,

    Now you have defined a statement that was previously vague.
    So, in other words, we have to decide if a change to the truss resists the design loads?

    How do we, as inspectors, reach that conclusion?
    And what criterion do we impose on a system to determine if that system is still performing as intended?

    The answer depends on what we are inspecting, of course, but in general, this brings up some interesting points. And I don't mean pink paint...


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    Default Re: Attic trusses pulling apart

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom D'Agostino View Post
    I concur with your statement that sometimes we can, in fact, make simple repairs.
    Only in accordance with the engineering, and, if there is no engineering, then an engineer (structural engineer) will need to be brought in.

    Glad you agree with that.

    Now you have defined a statement that was previously vague.
    So, in other words, we have to decide if a change to the truss resists the design loads?

    How do we, as inspectors, reach that conclusion?
    The easiest way is to use two of the tools that home inspectors always carry with them, or, should I say ... "should always carry with them" ... some home inspectors seem to leave one or the other behind all to frequently, and those tools are ... the home inspectors eyes and brain.

    If you see a loose truss plate, a broken truss web, a broken truss chord, it is *obvious* that the engineered load path as been altered.

    If it is not obvious, and some may say it is not obvious, then that person/those persons *SHOULD NOT BE DOING HOME INSPECTIONS*.

    If that does not answer your questions in an "obvious" way, then ...

    I know *you* are smarter than *that*, not yet sure about Richard, and, well, we all know about Tony (just not sure yet that Richard is down to Tony's level, Richard tries hard to convince us he is, and, sooner rather than later, I will begin to believe him - right now, though, I am still holding out hope for Richard).

    I really don't mind Tony trying to bad mouth me by claiming I am more than just a home inspector, I will only start to worry if Tony begins to agree with me.

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    Talking Re: Attic trusses pulling apart

    Thanks, Dan, Dom, and Richard, I feel vindicated.


  30. #30

    Default Re: Attic trusses pulling apart

    After building new homes in the past, I have seen this many times.
    I have seen them pop out and go through the ceiling.
    The truss engineer stated in almost every case, that this was cuased by moisture in the wood members and the wood members would shrink and twist etc.

    The fix was always replace the bad section and add a new with either wood or metal gang plates.

    Hope this helps
    Rolland Pruner


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    Default Re: Attic trusses pulling apart

    Repairs to damaged trusses must be engineered. Because the truss is proprietary, the repair must be designed by the manufacturer, or the warranty is voided. See here: http://www.sbcindustry.com/images/pu...2ijue3lucegh77


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    Default Re: Attic trusses pulling apart

    Although it's likely that the trusses were damaged during handling, moisture can also cause damage. It looks like the web might be twisted. I've seen cases where the webs have twisted and plates have become detached in wet areas (such as floor trusses over crawlspaces)


  33. #33
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    Default Re: Attic trusses pulling apart

    To tell you the truth, I fail to see where the trusses were altered. I see where they were damaged though. Being they were damaged and not deliberately altered, wouldn't anything you do to undo the damage be a repair? Then there is the question of what is considered to be a normal, typical repair, as providedin the paperwork supplied with the trusses. Just asking.


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    Default Re: Attic trusses pulling apart

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Zborowski View Post
    To tell you the truth, I fail to see where the trusses were altered. I see where they were damaged though. Being they were damaged and not deliberately altered, wouldn't anything you do to undo the damage be a repair?
    "Altered" means "changed", it does not refer to "by whom or what".

    Okay, now, have those trusses been "changed" from the way they were made at the factory?

    Yes.

    By whom or what does not matter.

    Thus, they have been "altered". And that requires an engineered fix.

    Then there is the question of what is considered to be a normal, typical repair, as providedin the paperwork supplied with the trusses.
    The "normal, typical repair" is signed and sealed by the engineer, and, depending on the damage, that could be from as simple as installing a 5/8"x12"x12" plywood gusset over both sides, with nailing as specified (probably 16d in a staggered pattern spaced 2" to 6" apart, or, nailing the truss plate back into place and adding nails as specified, to more complicated repairs.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  35. #35
    Christopher Gorton's Avatar
    Christopher Gorton Guest

    Default Re: Attic trusses pulling apart

    The press fit gussets sometimes get damaged before/during installation, once they are pulled out they cant go back in the same holes.
    The truss supplier has a nail on repair gusset for each side that they have approved as a suitable replacement when repair is needed, these are approved by the engineer and usually come with a nailing pattern sheet and the correct nails.
    Have the licensed carpenter or closing punchlist handyman nail these approved items in place in the approved way and move on.
    If you cannot find the truss manufacturer, you are probably going to have to look for an engineer to do this repair in such a way that you will be protecting your client.


  36. #36
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    Default Re: Attic trusses pulling apart

    I recently inspected a house with loose and missing truss plates. The following was sent in a letter stamped by a Professional Engineer (Structural) after the repairs were made. All that I did was verify that repairs had been made and take some pictures for the buyer.

    From Truss Company

    "We have reviewed the conditions concerning loose, dislodged or steel connector plates at pre-fabricated wood truss joints and damaged truss members requiring replacement.

    These conditions can be repaired in the field by removing the loose or dislodged plate and/or the damaged lumber, replacing the lumber with the same lumber member, if required, and field pressing new plates of larger size at the loose plate or repair location.

    Section 3.9.3 of American National Standard ANSI/TPI 1-2002 "National Design Standard For Metal Plate Connected Wood Truss Construction" states "When a metal plate is installed in lumber which contains tooth holes from a previously installed plate, and the lumber is otherwise undamaged, metal oplate connector teeth shall be considered 50% effective." This stipulates that only half the number of teeth pressed into lumber, where a plate has been previously pressed, are effective and requires that a new repair plate have at least the additional one half of the required teeth in each member.

    A plate which has fifty percent more area, on each affected member, than the original plate will provide the required extra teeth. Please note that the plate orientation and any required offsets must be simulated with the new plate."

    I take this to mean that a new plate can be used in an area with previous tooth holes as long as the plate is 50% larger. I assume I got that correct?

    Jeff Euriech
    Peoria Arizona

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  37. #37
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    Default Re: Attic trusses pulling apart

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Euriech View Post
    and field pressing new plates of larger size at the loose plate or repair location.
    "field pressing"

    That is seldom done from what I have seen. Usually the repairs consists of nailed on plates/gussets.

    I see your photo does show field pressed plates, which is good.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  38. #38
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Attic trusses pulling apart

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Euriech View Post
    From Truss Company

    "We have reviewed the conditions concerning loose, dislodged or steel connector plates at pre-fabricated wood truss joints and damaged truss members requiring replacement.

    These conditions can be repaired in the field by removing the loose or dislodged plate and/or the damaged lumber, replacing the lumber with the same lumber member, if required, and field pressing new plates of larger size at the loose plate or repair location....


    Not to re-hash what's already been said, but that's the point I was making earlier about these types of repairs.

    Dom.


  39. #39
    Mike Truss Guy's Avatar
    Mike Truss Guy Guest

    Default Re: Attic trusses pulling apart

    Peak joints are most often damaged by using a J-hook on a crane to install trusses. Other joints are probably damaged due to unloading on uneven ground with rocks. The good news is that this is usually the easiest fix - a simple gusset.


  40. #40
    Mike Truss Guy's Avatar
    Mike Truss Guy Guest

    Default Re: Attic trusses pulling apart

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    "field pressing"

    That is seldom done from what I have seen. Usually the repairs consists of nailed on plates/gussets.

    I see your photo does show field pressed plates, which is good.
    Many larger truss manufactures have a portable press and fix trusses that way often. The press and hydraulic pump cost upwards of $5000 so it's not something most small general contractors have on hand. On top of that the plates used are not sold to the general public or contractors. That's why you generally see these fixed with OSB gussets with field nailing.


  41. #41
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Attic trusses pulling apart

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Barre View Post
    If you've ever seen them deliver trusses, you've likely seen them literally dumped off the end of a truck. Often on to an irregular surface...such as a sloped lot or on top of other materials. This kind of damage is way too common.
    As Jerry said, repairs should only be done under an engineer's supervision.
    Without more info/pics, it's impossible to say if the truss damage and wall cracks are related, but I doubt it. (Based only on the brief description and the few truss pics.)
    These trusses were "mishadeled" the engineer will likely only require a plywood gusset with a nailing schedule
    However what will cost is a repair cert

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Barre View Post
    If you've ever seen them deliver trusses, you've likely seen them literally dumped off the end of a truck. Often on to an irregular surface...such as a sloped lot or on top of other materials. This kind of damage is way too common.
    As Jerry said, repairs should only be done under an engineer's supervision.
    Without more info/pics, it's impossible to say if the truss damage and wall cracks are related, but I doubt it. (Based only on the brief description and the few truss pics.)
    These trusses were "mishadeled" the engineer will likely only require a plywood gusset with a nailing schedule
    However what will cost is a repair cert


  42. #42
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    Default Re: Attic trusses pulling apart

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    .

    A lot.

    .

    Mishandling the trusses when they were being installed ... 99.94% of the time what will have been the cause.

    Can they be repaired? Yes, easily.

    How? With three basic steps, in the following order, anything else and it is as though the trusses were never repaired:

    1. Have structural engineer design appropriate repairs, preferably the truss manufacturers engineer, but any structural engineer can do it.

    2. Repair it in accordance with the engineer's design.

    3. Have the structural engineer who issued the repair design inspect it and issue a letter stating that it was repaired in accordance to the design.

    I know, there will be some who will say that is overkill, and to them I say ... too bad ... as that is THE ONLY ACCEPTABLE WAY to repair a truss. Then add: You guys need to quit counting your buyers pennies and start actually PROTECTING YOUR CLIENT'S BEST INTEREST. To wit, when they go to sell, if they do not have 3. above, they may well be SOL and have to get 1. and 3. again, do you think that is in your client's best interests?

    An excellent suggestion someone here made (I did not think of it, but wish I had): staple a COPY of that paperwork to the trusses. I forgot who said that, but that is a brilliant idea.
    Or as some of us might say...........have further evaluation done by a structural engineer and appropriate repairs done............just sayin'

    If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

  43. #43
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    Default Re: Attic trusses pulling apart

    Quote Originally Posted by Lon Henderson View Post
    Or as some of us might say...........have further evaluation done by a structural engineer and appropriate repairs done............just sayin'
    Your tagline says it all for further evaluation ... ... just sayin'
    "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice."

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

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