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  1. #1
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    Default How to fix a king post cut too short

    How to fix a king post cut too short. Saw this today near Dallas.

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: How to fix a king post cut too short

    I thought everything was bigger in Texas


  3. #3
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    Default Re: How to fix a king post cut too short

    Quote Originally Posted by Gene South View Post

    fix a king post---- too short. .
    .
    .......
    .
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  4. #4
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to fix a king post cut too short

    Quote Originally Posted by Gene South View Post
    How to fix a king post cut too short. Saw this today near Dallas.
    GS: This is a fairly common installation by the firm of Juan and Jose.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: How to fix a king post cut too short

    Why waste lumber? Save a tree, use scrap lumber.


  6. #6
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    Default Re: How to fix a king post cut too short

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    Why waste lumber? Save a tree, use scrap lumber.
    RW: I am a firm believer in the wast not want not mantra. Problem is, it takes a carpenter to build things properly from whole pieces of lumber. It takes a damned good carpenter to utilize scrap lumber toward the same end. You may have an over abundance of them in the Land of Ice and Snow. They are in dreadful short supply around here.


  7. #7
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    Default Re: How to fix a king post cut too short

    Quote Originally Posted by Gene South View Post
    How to fix a king post cut too short. Saw this today near Dallas.
    Use a lap joint and sister another alongside as an interm solution.
    Replace with a full length member is best.
    Consult a qualified carpenter.

    T.Neyedli CHI
    BPCPA #47827
    www.alphahomeinspections.ca


  8. #8
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    Default Re: How to fix a king post cut too short

    Consult a qualified carpenter.
    TN: This is Texas. All of them have moved on to professions which pay better and do not require proficiency in Spanish.


  9. #9
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    Default Re: How to fix a king post cut too short

    It's not actually cut too short. I have seen this a few times over the past few years. I think the idea behind it is to get bracing under the ridge, hip, and rafters all at the same time.

    There is really nothing wrong with the way it is constructed. The code only requires the ridge to be braced where hips or valleys intersect at the ridge. They have done that.


  10. #10
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    Default Re: How to fix a king post cut too short

    There is really nothing wrong with the way it is constructed.
    WC: Spoken like a true non-artisan AHJ.


  11. #11
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    Default Re: How to fix a king post cut too short

    A.D. so tell me just because I am the AHJ, and in my opinion I feel that this installation meets code, what would you say is wrong with it and why? Code sections please.




  12. #12
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    Default Re: How to fix a king post cut too short

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Carlisle View Post
    A.D. so tell me just because I am the AHJ, and in my opinion I feel that this installation meets code, what would you say is wrong with it and why? Code sections please.


    WC: Damnable sloppy work. Hack work to be more precise. No self-respecting professional carpenter would admit to an installation like that.

    Furthermore - and you CAN try this one at home - take an 18" piece of yellow pine 2X10 or 2X12, put it between two saw horses and hit it in the middle with your hand. Unless pushing papers and BS'ing the residents of your municipality for a living have gentrified you beyond hope, the board will break along the grain. This is precisely what happens with many of these fine installations. The cap splits and the post falls because most of the 80 toe nails are not penetrating anything but the post itself.

    I understand that your job forces you to see things from the point of view of a over-the-top (or under-the-bottom) minimalist, but a even blind carpenter smoking crack would tell you this sucks.


  13. #13
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    Default Re: How to fix a king post cut too short

    A.D. ......this is going to shock you! I agree with you! I would never do it this way! If they were to make sure the block was directly inder the ridge and not extending enough to give it the possibillity of cracking the board as in what you stated above, then everthing is AOK.


  14. #14
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    Default Re: How to fix a king post cut too short

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Carlisle View Post
    A.D. ......this is going to shock you! I agree with you! I would never do it this way! If they were to make sure the block was directly inder the ridge and not extending enough to give it the possibillity of cracking the board as in what you stated above, then everthing is AOK.
    WC: O-M-G!! I may have to change my mind a bit about you then . . . That will make it difficult for me to keep my pet predjucies against all AHJs inflated . . .


  15. #15
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    Default Re: How to fix a king post cut too short

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Carlisle View Post
    A.D. ......this is going to shock you! I agree with you! I would never do it this way! If they were to make sure the block was directly inder the ridge and not extending enough to give it the possibillity of cracking the board as in what you stated above, then everthing is AOK.
    The block(s) make it unstable, even if they were centered. Two short chunks with a lap-joint would be more rigid and easy to build with two screws. It may be temporary blocking from when they framed the hip, should have been replaced.

    Maybe it was too hot in that attic and there was cold cervesas in the truck.

    I would ask for a collar tie as well, nailed to the post, even better.


  16. #16
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    Default Re: How to fix a king post cut too short

    Maybe it was too hot in that attic and there was cold cervesas in the truck.
    JK: Now you have arrived at the crux of the matter! It is always hot in Texas attics, and Juan and Jose always have cold cervezas in the truck (usually old tired-ass-wore-out van). They may not have a level, or a plumb bob, or a framing square, but they surely have a six-pack.


  17. #17
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    Default Re: How to fix a king post cut too short

    What's the big fuss about; it's only short on one end!
    I've seen much worse framing in supposedly high-end custom home building in the 3-5 mill plus range and above.

    As construction technology goes up craftsmanship has goes down. It's a shame, but I'm sure it will get far worse before I live long enough to see it get better.

    All the Swedes, Danes, and Norwegians have retired or gone on to more lucrative careers. No training, no apprenticeship programs, no pride in workmanship, equal crappy construction.

    My construction consultant litigation work has long proved that fact and it's getting worse.

    Jerry McCarthy
    Building Code/ Construction Consultant

  18. #18
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    Default Re: How to fix a king post cut too short

    Quote Originally Posted by Gene South View Post
    How to fix a king post cut too short. Saw this today near Dallas.
    Hey - I recognize that technique. I've got that guy building a couple houses for me right now. Tell him his weekend is over and to get his butt back up here where it gets cool after dark.


  19. #19
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    Default Re: How to fix a king post cut too short

    What's the big fuss about; it's only short on one end!
    JM: !!!

    As construction technology goes up craftsmanship has goes down. It's a shame, but I'm sure it will get far worse before I live long enough to see it get better.
    JM: Agreed.

    All the Swedes, Danes, and Norwegians have retired or gone on to more lucrative careers. No training, no apprenticeship programs, no pride in workmanship, equal crappy construction.
    JM: Add to that list Germans, Italians, French (OK, not the French).


  20. #20
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    Default Re: How to fix a king post cut too short

    Wait, the Germans are the world's mechanics, the Englsh song writers, the Italians chefs (taught us all how to cook); the Spanish romantics, the Irish masons, and the Mexicans are our new breed of carpenters working for American developers backed by Asian investors.

    Jerry McCarthy
    Building Code/ Construction Consultant

  21. #21
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    Default Re: How to fix a king post cut too short

    Come on down to Houston and we can show you loads of these installations. I very rarely see a house here that isnt done like that.


  22. #22
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    Default Re: How to fix a king post cut too short

    Oops, example photo

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  23. #23
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    Default Re: How to fix a king post cut too short

    The single large piece of wood, here in Texas, is called a turtle. This piece comes in contact with the other hip ridges so all pieces are supported. I don't like multiple pieces scabbed together, that would be cheezie.


  24. #24
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    Default Re: How to fix a king post cut too short

    What I see in those pictures is not a King Post.
    It is a temporary support used to support the ridge while the hip-roof is being framed and it was left in place.
    King post are used in post and beam construction or in a King post truss as seen here;

    King Post Truss


  25. #25
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    Default Re: How to fix a king post cut too short

    I understand that building practices vary from state to state. The way people build houses in New England is much different than Tx, AZ, Fl or CA. Here in TX there are hurricane codes in Houston or Corpus Chrisi that are different in San Antonio and in Dallas. Dallas snows, Colorado snows a lot. No snow in San Antonio or Phoenix. So one of the things I would like to see on blogs are inspectors not trying to make people build houses the same in areas that have that have extreme temps. We do not calculate our roofs for snow load. We are more concerned with proper drainage around the foundation because of the high clay content. We don't build houses with basements. We don't fill up a tank in the basement with fuel oil for the furnace. We don't scrape our streets, sidewalks or driveways just so we can get out of the house. We don't have ice dams. We also don't have bathroom exhaust fans that force wet air into the attic and freeze and do damage to the roof sheathing.
    So what doesn't work in the frigid NE, can work very well in an area that has a much better climate. Just because you don't see that type of construction in Boston, doesn't mean that it is just "Wrong is Wrong" for the rest of the country.
    Keep an open mind and do your homework. I bet there are different codes in Las Angeles than there are in Maine.


  26. #26
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    Default Re: How to fix a king post cut too short

    I completly understand the requirements in the Northeast and don't need an explanation and also realize that local codes are different everywhere, and I think I have more than done my homework over time.
    Look-up the definition of King Post and understand yourself what it is suppose to look like.
    You will find that a king post is the same no matter what part of the Country you are in and I also know how to frame a hip roof.


  27. #27
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    Default Re: How to fix a king post cut too short

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Cyr View Post
    I completly understand the requirements in the Northeast and don't need an explanation and also realize that local codes are different everywhere, and I think I have more than done my homework over time.
    Look-up the definition of King Post and understand yourself what it is suppose to look like.
    You will find that a king post is the same no matter what part of the Country you are in and I also know how to frame a hip roof.
    For someone who seems to think they know it all, please explain what a purlin is to me and tell me if it means the same thing all over.

    Looking to learn something I am confused about.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  28. #28
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    Default Re: How to fix a king post cut too short

    First of all Mr. Peck, there is need to be respondent in a defensive and insulting manner, I am here for opinions like everybody else and just wanted to share my experience with standard hip framing.

    Second, I was talking about a King Post not a Purlin.

    A King Post is used mainly in Post and Beam Framing and anything else is a support post or temporary post.

    In the pictures, it is indeed a support post used temporarily to support the ridge board while framing.
    I can tell it was done by an amature just seeing where the collar tie is installed, to be affective, it should have been in the upper 2/3.
    The duct support used is also below minimum standards for that application.

    King Post= A king post (or crown post) extends vertically from a crossbeam to the apex of a triangular truss. The king post connects the apex of the truss with its base, holding up the tie beam at the base of the truss.
    External forces and reactions to those forces are considered to act only at the nodes and result in forces in the members which are either tensile or compressive forces.

    Moments (torsional forces) are explicitly excluded because, and only because, all the joints in a truss are treated as revolutes.

    Purlin= is a horizontal structural member in a roof . ...

    Hope this explains a little what I was trying to explain.
    And to answer your question, no I do not know it all, just plowed a few fields.

    Thank you



  29. #29
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    Default Re: How to fix a king post cut too short

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Cyr View Post
    I am here for opinions like everybody else and just wanted to share my experience with standard hip framing.
    You did not just share your opinion, you stated that a King Post is what you said it was and nothing else. There is a BIG difference between that and your "opinion".

    Second, I was talking about a King Post not a Purlin.
    I fully understand that, which is why I asked about something totally not related to a King Post.

    Purlin= is a horizontal structural member in a roof . ...
    Please expand on that as that is not a clear description of a purlin. Please give an example of where and how it is used.

    Also not sure why you like to use blue text for your posts, possibly you are adverse to the black everyone else uses, so in deference to you and that possibility I am using red text.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  30. #30
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    Default Re: How to fix a king post cut too short

    I was referring to a picture of a King Post that obviously did not get published.
    I don't know what your problem is with blue text, it sure is easier on the eyes for me.

    And I won't bother explaining any further just to get insulted.
    Thank you


  31. #31
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    Default Re: How to fix a king post cut too short

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Cyr View Post
    [COLOR=#0000ff]I don't know what your problem is with blue text, it sure is easier on the eyes for me.
    Dang I'm glad you explained this. I just assumed blue was a color code that only " nickie Master Certifieds" were allowed to use.

    Phoenix AZ Resale Home, Mobile Home, New Home Warranty Inspections. ASHI Certified Inspector #206929 Arizona Certified Inspector # 38440
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    Default Re: How to fix a king post cut too short

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Cyr View Post
    And I won't bother explaining any further just to get insulted.

    Explaining further would not lead to you being insulated, it would only likely lead to you being educated that purlin does not mean what you think it means, that purlin has at least two meanings.

    Seems like you have no problem in trying to teach what you know (think you know) but do have a problem in opening your mind up for new information which contradicts what you think you know.

    You said:
    I am here for opinions like everybody else and just wanted to share my experience
    And that seems to not be the actual case. Seems you are only here for the latter part.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  33. #33
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    Default Re: How to fix a king post cut too short

    Maybe it was Dan, but you will never know, will you?


  34. #34
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    Default Re: How to fix a king post cut too short

    Mr. Peck, it seems you have a problem in evaluations of opinions, experience and your own mind set that you are an expert also.
    We will leave it at that.


  35. #35
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    Default Re: How to fix a king post cut too short

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Cyr View Post
    Mr. Peck, it seems you have a problem in evaluations of opinions, experience and your own mind set that you are an expert also.
    We will leave it at that.
    Again, you are unwilling to advance in this communication as it seems you only want to have your say and not put forth information from which we ALL (yes ... ALL ... you, me, everyone) can learn. Not wanting to put forth information which may turn out to be incorrect ... or maybe even correct - but you will never know as you would rather not contribute in the finding of fact, only express your esteemed knowledge, whether correct or incorrect, than find out whether or not it was correct or incorrect.

    If you have been a participant here for long you would have seen that many preconceived "knowledge" moments turn out to be "incorrect assumptions", resulting in ALL of us learning from what is posted. EVERYONE here has gone through those learning moments, myself included. But you cannot learn, nor teach, if you are unwilling to share and communicate.

    So be it.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

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