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  1. #1
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    Default Extensive mold in crawl space

    I just went through my home inspection today and everything was going great until the inspector went into the crawl space. He discovered extensive mold in several locations and also found that the there was no fans up there as well. He said in his opinion the only course of action would be to have the roof decking taken off as opposed to having the mold removed because of the extent of the mold there. He actually said it would probably cost less to replace the roof while removing the mold. We don't own the home but had an inspector look at it after we were under contract. We really want this home but we have a 11 month old baby and will not proceed unless the seller corrects this serious problem. In your experience with extensive mold and having to replace the roof to get to it will the mold return and usually will they find the problem before they do the work. I'm new to this so forgive me if I don't know the terminology. Also, what type of costs are involved? Thanks.

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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    You think moles are bad?!
    You should see the Norwegian Roof Beaver!
    Oh, and welcome to the board!

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  3. #3
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    Smile re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Quote Originally Posted by John Arnold View Post
    You think moles are bad?!
    You should see the Norwegian Roof Beaver!
    Lol...Good one. I made the correction.


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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Any pics Rich?

    The mold in the attic is likely the result of inadequate ventilation and migrating humidity from the house finding it's may into the attic. Some things that can exacerbate attic (I'm assuming it's the attic even though you said crawlspace) humidity levels are bathroom vent fans, plumbing vents, or clothes dryer vents that exhaust into the attic. Less obvious culprits would no vapor/moisture barrier facing on the attic floor insulation to keep house moisture from migrating into the attic.

    Any further detail you can provide about your inspectors finding would be helpful Rich. I can't say that replacing the roof is or isn't warranted because I wasn't there so I don't know how pervasive the mold issue is. Upgrading the roof ventialtion alone may help reduce the chances of future mold growth but you need to figure out how the moisture is getting into the attic and stop it.


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    Default Re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Quote Originally Posted by rich harris View Post
    I just went through my home inspection today and everything was going great until the inspector went into the crawl space. He discovered extensive mold in several locations and also found that the there was no fans up there as well.
    Are you talking about the crawlspace (below the house) or the attic (above the ceiling)? If you are talking about the crawlspace it must be some very serious roof leaks to have that much water in the crawlspace.

    Quote Originally Posted by rich harris View Post
    He said in his opinion the only course of action would be to have the roof taken off as opposed to having it removed because of the extent of the mold there. He actually said it would probably cost less to replace the roof while removing the mold.
    What is the difference between having the roof taken off and having it removed? Do you mean he recommends the roof decking be removed rather than simply reroofing over it?

    Do you have any photos you can share with us?

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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Did the inspector tell you why mold was growing in the attic (crawlspace)?

    It's great that he ID the mold, but it is hanging around for a reason.

    My suggestion is to get a second opinion from a person who specializes in mold in homes, normally this will not be a home inspector. If it is as bad as the first guy said, you might want to move on to your next mold free dream home!

    Scott Patterson, ACI
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  7. #7
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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    Did the inspector tell you why mold was growing in the attic (crawlspace)?

    It's great that he ID the mold, but it is hanging around for a reason.

    My suggestion is to get a second opinion from a person who specializes in mold in homes, normally this will not be a home inspector. If it is as bad as the first guy said, you might want to move on to your next mold free dream home!
    He thinks it's because there's no vents in the roof and no fans keeping the moisture out. If the seller agrees to correct the problem I'm sure that the vents and fans will be added. We love this home and it they agree to correct the problem we'll proceed. We live in MD. which is tougher with this type of problem and if it's corrected they will test to make sure it's done properly.


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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    I find it hard to envision plywood or OSB roof sheathing so devastated by mold that it actually needs to be replaced ... because of the mold ...

    If it needed to be replaced it would be due to excessive moisture, and then mold would be an non-concern result of the excessive moisture - it would be the moisture which would require the replacement of the roof sheathing, and that would be caused by a really, really, bad roof.

    The solution then would not be to just replace the roof (nothing you have described so far indicates that is needed) but the underlying cause of the problem would need to be corrected first (and it is quite likely that nothing else would need to be done).

    Just not enough information given to form a real conclusion as to what needs to be done.

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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    I find it hard to envision plywood or OSB roof sheathing so devastated by mold that it actually needs to be replaced ... because of the mold ...

    If it needed to be replaced it would be due to excessive moisture, and then mold would be an non-concern result of the excessive moisture - it would be the moisture which would require the replacement of the roof sheathing, and that would be caused by a really, really, bad roof.

    The solution then would not be to just replace the roof (nothing you have described so far indicates that is needed) but the underlying cause of the problem would need to be corrected first (and it is quite likely that nothing else would need to be done).

    Just not enough information given to form a real conclusion as to what needs to be done.
    I will post exactly what the inspector says is wrong when I receive a copy of his report so I can get a better gauge of what needs to be done.


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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    I find it hard to envision plywood or OSB roof sheathing so devastated by mold that it actually needs to be replaced ... because of the mold ...

    If it needed to be replaced it would be due to excessive moisture, and then mold would be an non-concern result of the excessive moisture - it would be the moisture which would require the replacement of the roof sheathing, and that would be caused by a really, really, bad roof.
    To help you and others visualize , I'm posting some pics of badly mould-infested OSB. I do not believe the sheathing in these pics can be cleaned up. The roof was not leaking, so the moisture had to be coming up from below. The mold was uniformly distributed throughout the attic. I'm posting this as an example of serious trouble which probably cannot be repaired without removal of the sheathing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Just not enough information given to form a real conclusion as to what needs to be done.
    Agreed. Perhaps the HI could have provided more specific info and pictures?

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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Quote Originally Posted by John Kogel View Post
    To help you and others visualize , I'm posting some pics of badly mould-infested OSB. I do not believe the sheathing in these pics can be cleaned up. The roof was not leaking, so the moisture had to be coming up from below. The mold was uniformly distributed throughout the attic. I'm posting this as an example of serious trouble which probably cannot be repaired without removal of the sheathing.
    I think that OSB CAN be cleaned up ... IF IT EVEN NEEDS TO BE cleaned up ... and it probably does not need to be cleaned up.

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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    From your description it sounds like the inspector was indicating (recommending?) that it might be cost effective to replace the sheathing if you replace the roof covering.

    If the roof covering is in fact near the end of its useful life - especially if it is a composition shingle roof, and there are already two or more layers of shingles on the roof, and you're going to have to do a "tear off" and remove all the old roof covering anyway - and the mold growth on the sheathing is quite extensive, it could be a reasonable recommendation.

    At least in my area the best way to address concerns about extensive mold growth in an attic is to hire an industrial hygienist to recommend a remediation program, have then supervise the process, and then have them issue a clearance letter and supporting documentation - that's pretty much the only way that you can guarantee that when the time comes for you to sell the house, you will be able to demonstrate that the problem has truly been resolved.

    By the time you add up the costs to do all that plus the cost to remove the mold from the sheathing with something like CO2 blasting, if the roof coverings is already coming off an it's a pretty straightforward roof, the whole process may end up costing you less if you simply replace the sheathing.

    Or perhaps not - the only way to be sure is to price the various alternatives.

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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    industrial hygienist?

    I always love that recommendation. I am sure that in the vast amount of situations an industrial hygienist is a bit over board. There is a large population of mold remediation companies that can do a quite decent enough job of recommendations for clean up. They do this for a living, day in and day out, year in and year out. They may just recommend better ventilation and address the moisture issue. They can actually do the work. The industrial whatever is not going to do anything in most cases except recommend what the mold remediation company will and then he won't fix it.

    Just my opinion. I know many on here say mold companies are not worth their salt but I am of different thinking that they are mostly quite capable folks just as any other contractor.

    Again, just my opinion.


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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    I know many on here say mold companies are not worth their salt but I am of different thinking that they are mostly quite capable folks just as any other contractor.

    "I know many on here say mold companies are not worth their salt ... "

    " ... but I am of different thinking that they are mostly quite capable folks ... "

    " ... just as any other contractor."

    Ted,

    Make up your mind, would you.

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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    "I know many on here say mold companies are not worth their salt ... "

    " ... but I am of different thinking that they are mostly quite capable folks ... "

    " ... just as any other contractor."

    Ted,

    Make up your mind, would you.
    Ah yes Confucius. Many a play on words.

    I ate to many egg roll and fortune cookie tonight


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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Quote Originally Posted by John Kogel View Post
    .
    I do not believe the sheathing in these pics can be cleaned up.
    .
    .......
    YouTube - Dry Ice Mold Remediation
    .
    eh.

    Last edited by Billy Stephens; 03-02-2010 at 07:48 PM. Reason: eh & smiley added
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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Stephens View Post
    Billy and Jerry, I don't wish to sabotage this poster's thread just yet, but I don't agree. I was told by a contractor who cleans up mouldy attics that yes, mold on plywood and plank can be killed and removed. Sure, you can use dry ice.
    OSB, no, they have stopped trying to surface clean it. Mould penetrates too deep, keeps coming back.


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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Quote Originally Posted by John Kogel View Post
    Billy
    .
    , keeps coming back.
    .
    Only if it has a Water Source.
    * and if that is the case New Mold would take it's place, ( food source + Moisture = Mold .)

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  19. #19
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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Spray it with timbor and vent correctly. Then air scrub the home simple but not cheap when a mold remeadation co. does the work.


  20. #20
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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Stephens View Post
    .
    ( food source + Moisture = Mold .)
    + oxygen + the right temperature (typically 40F-100F)


  21. #21
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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Question here!
    When dry ice or soda blasting in an attic, do the remediators sheet off the all the insulation to catch the removed material and pull it out of the attic? I question this because I've seen a blasted attic and all the mold was left laying on the insulation, still in the attic. Personally my view is if the mold did not damage the sheathing, and proper venting was added to stop the moisture, just leave it. No moisture No mold and it is outside the living envelope. What do the rest of you guys feel about this?

    Jim Weyenberg
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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    These are the actual comments from the inspection report. I can't figure out how to upload the pictures and when I do I will post those as well.

    The roof sheathing has fungi growth indicating previous moisture intrusion and poor ventilation in attic.
    The cause of moisture needs to be found and corrected The ventilation should be increased as soon as
    possible I recommend ridge vents be installed next roof replacement. I also recommend that a licensed
    mold inspector and remediator inspect further and suggest the needed repair or replacements of the attic
    space. Some decking may need to be replaced, due to the amount of mold.



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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Quote Originally Posted by rich harris View Post
    I can't figure out how to upload the pictures and when I do I will post those as well.
    Just below the reply box you'll see 'Additional Options'. In the middle of that box click on the 'Uplload Photos' button. A new 'Upload Photos' window will open. If you wish to upload photos from your computer click on one of the 'Browse' buttons under 'Upload File from your Computer', navigate to the photo you wish to upload, click on it to select it and click 'Open'. If you wish to upload more than one photo (up to 5 total) click a different 'Browse' button and select the additional photos. When you have selected all the photos you wish to upload click the 'Upload' button. It's as simple as that.

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  24. #24
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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Ok these are the pictures from my home inspection. I hope they are clear enough for you to see the mold and give your advice.

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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Weyenberg View Post
    Personally my view is if the mold did not damage the sheathing, and proper venting was added to stop the moisture, just leave it. No moisture No mold and it is outside the living envelope. What do the rest of you guys feel about this?
    That's why I said:
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    I find it hard to envision plywood or OSB roof sheathing so devastated by mold that it actually needs to be replaced ... because of the mold ...

    If it needed to be replaced it would be due to excessive moisture, and then mold would be an non-concern result of the excessive moisture - it would be the moisture which would require the replacement of the roof sheathing, and that would be caused by a really, really, bad roof.
    Some people are still put into heightened alarm from all the 'O-h m-y g-a-w-d ... y-o-u h-a-v-e m-o-l-d!' Mold-is-Gold people. Here is a News Flash for them - Mold IS EVERYWHERE ... ALL THE TIME.

    The only time it is a 'problem' is when a person living in the house is allergic to it, otherwise it is just a nuisance which needs to be cleaned up and, in worst cases, remove some drywall - but only AFTER addressing the cause of the moisture.

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  26. #26
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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    That's why I said:


    Some people are still put into heightened alarm from all the 'O-h m-y g-a-w-d ... y-o-u h-a-v-e m-o-l-d!' Mold-is-Gold people. Here is a News Flash for them - Mold IS EVERYWHERE ... ALL THE TIME.

    The only time it is a 'problem' is when a person living in the house is allergic to it, otherwise it is just a nuisance which needs to be cleaned up and, in worst cases, remove some drywall - but only AFTER addressing the cause of the moisture.
    That's one opinion and it's not based on what we smelled when the inspector allowed me to climb the ladder so he can show me the mold. It was strong and he actually had to sit down because he didn't take his mask because he assumed the attic was going to be fine based on the rest of the home being in excellent condition. I can only send pictures that we scanned and not high def ones but actually seeing it was worse than the pictures can ever convey and mold was in more than 9 places and that's only what we know about. I'm hoping the seller replaces the roof and sheathing and other spots as well as the other preventive measures to help decrease the chance that it wiill happen to the extent it has already. I value your opinions so please weigh in.


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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Quote Originally Posted by rich harris View Post
    That's one opinion and it's not based on what we smelled when the inspector allowed me to climb the ladder so he can show me the mold. It was strong and ...

    You are basing your opinion on what was there "before", not "after" it has been killed and/or cleaned off/whatever.

    That is like looking at a trashed house and saying you would not like it because it stinks, not considering that it will not stink once you have cleaned it up.

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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    That's why I said:


    Some people are still put into heightened alarm from all the 'O-h m-y g-a-w-d ... y-o-u h-a-v-e m-o-l-d!' Mold-is-Gold people. Here is a News Flash for them - Mold IS EVERYWHERE ... ALL THE TIME.

    The only time it is a 'problem' is when a person living in the house is allergic to it, otherwise it is just a nuisance which needs to be cleaned up and, in worst cases, remove some drywall - but only AFTER addressing the cause of the moisture.
    Here's what I know.
    People develop problems from long-term exposure, and children are more vulnerable than healthy adults.
    If warm moist air is leaking from the living space into the attic, then moldy air can leak back down. So it is a legitimate concern for young families.
    Sealing the attic space from the living space and providing adequate ventilation are important ways to reduce the problem. If the sheathing, and that looks like plywood in the OP's pics, can be dried out, the mold will die and leave a harmless black stain. There is quite a bit of mold in those pics, but I believe it can be made harmless without removing the sheathing. With that much moisture, it should be relatively easy to track down the source?

    If the mould is deeply impregnated into the sheathing, such as the pics of OSB which I posted above, it can be very difficult to dry out completely, and even if it is dried, the mould can lay dormant in little pockets till the humidity rises. That is why moldy OSB is much harder to live with than mouldy plywood.


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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    From the pictures even if the roof and decking are replaced you will still have mold in the rafters and in the insulation.

    You can not predict what health effects people will have wilth mold so it is important to be cautious. I would say that you should have the mold remediated by a company licensed for that work and not a roofing contractor just replacing the roof.

    Many people don't realize this. We think in the summer heat rises in the home and the air in the house wants to push up and out the air leaks into the attic- the stack effect. The stack effect reverses in the summer - its relative to outside air temps. In the summer when the ac is running the house is being cooled and the air is getting denser and falling to the lowest level. Air leaks at the lower levels are letting air out. This is being replaced by air from the top - pulling in mold from the attic along with the hot air.

    Depending on what the remediator finds it may be necessary to remove the insulation. If you are still buying the house then you may want to pay for air sealing. With the insulation out have a spray foam company come in and spray a 1 inch layer of foam. This will create an air barrier between the house and the attic. Spray foam is very expensive and in my opinion not cost effective to use at greater thicknesses in an attic. On top of the spray foam have cellulose insulation in installed. Do not use fiberglass.

    At the basement level have the rim joist area covered with an inch of spray foam.

    Since the spray foam is an upgrade I would not expect the seller to pay for it. Work out a deal for you to pay for it. Adjust the sales price to reflect the upgrade.

    The mold is caused by moisture. The moisture could be from a roof leak and/or moisture from the house. The moisture from the house can be from air leaks and/or bathroom fans vented into the the attic. Fans need to be vented through the roof.

    Back to the insulation. Why do I recommend cellulose? Fiberglass needs to be covered on all sides inside in an air tight enclosure to preform near its stated R value. Also fiberglass does not block radiant heat. In the attic the main method of heat transfer from the roof is through radiant heat to the insulation. Cellulose will preform much better in attic conditions. It blocks radiant heat and it does a good job of blocking air movement even when it is not in an air tight enclosure.

    If the seller did not know about the mold they do now. The seller and the agent will now have to disclose it to any potential buyers. This puts you in a good bargaining position. As part of the contract -through addendum- put in your requirements for what is an acceptable repair. If you want to upgrade a few things then expect to pay for them and up the sales price.

    Last edited by Robert Hronek; 03-05-2010 at 08:55 AM.

  30. #30
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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    The smell is from no ventilation. Clean it and get more ventilation, problem solved!


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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Carlisle View Post
    The smell is from no ventilation. Clean it and get more ventilation, problem solved!
    I would say it is a little more complicated. There are also some serious legal ramifications to not doing it correctly.


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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Okay.....what legal ramifications is there for not doing it correctly.
    What law says you have to remove mold? How do you remove mold legally??


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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Carlisle View Post
    Okay.....what legal ramifications is there for not doing it correctly.
    What law says you have to remove mold? How do you remove mold legally??
    Have you ever had a class on mold?

    You can be sued in cival court. Health related mold issues are hard to prove. Most successful cases deal with improper remediation and correction of the problem.

    Improper cleanup can spread the mold to other areas that were not contaminated. The cause of the moisture and thus mold problem may not be fixred causing the mold to return. Things like that are what put someone in legal risk of losing a suit.


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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Anybody can be sued for anything nowadays!

    Where's the law???? What code?????


  35. #35
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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    I received confirmation today that the seller of the property will with remediation over replacing the roof which would make the job easier. The inspector told me that it would be cheaper to just replace materials including the roof as opposed to sending people in there to clean everything. What's your experience with this is it better to clean it in tight quarters or just remove the roof to make it easier and cheaper to do?

    Remember the inspector said and I quote "
    The roof sheathing has fungi growth indicating previous moisture intrusion and poor ventilation in attic.
    The cause of moisture needs to be found and corrected The ventilation should be increased as soon as
    possible I recommend ridge vents be installed next roof replacement. I also recommend that a licensed
    mold inspector and remediator inspect further and suggest the needed repair or replacements of the attic
    space. Some decking may need to be replaced, due to the amount of mold"

    Please give your input and possible cost for each job. Thanks.


  36. #36
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    Default Clorox is your friend

    Back in the old days before mold became something to reap millions off of, we filled a pumper sprayer with about 25 percent clorox and a partial box of TSP (trisodium phosphate) and the rest water. The TSP acted as a surfactant so the killer clorox would stick to the material and do its job. I probably wasn't smart enough to use a mask back then but recomend it today. Get proper ventilation established like many of you are talking about and then blow in another 8-10 inches of cellulose to help hold the warmth/moisture in the living envelope. An attic fan on a humidistate might not hurt.


  37. #37
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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Quote Originally Posted by John Kogel View Post
    Here's what I know.
    People develop problems from long-term exposure, and children are more vulnerable than healthy adults.

    Here is what I know.

    SOME people develop problems from long-term exposure ...

    MOST people do not develop problems ...

    Therefore, to panic and remediate any and all mould because SOME people are allergic to it is like saying that we should do away with penicillin because SOME people (myself included) are allergic to penicillin - which, by the way, is made from mould.

    Which is why I said:
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck
    IF IT EVEN NEEDS TO BE cleaned up ... and it probably does not need to be cleaned up.


    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  38. #38
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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Rich,

    A sensible coarse of action for this situation would be to:
    Identify the reason for excessive moisture in the attic (venting, bathroom exhaust, Prior flooding, wet basement, etc.)
    Correct the problem to prevent any future moisture issues.
    Mold cleanup may or may not be necessary depending on the severity (can't tell by the pictures)

    It is important to remember that air in the house moves up, this is called the stack effect. The air from your attic will not enter the living space unless by mechanical means.

    I would reach out to your inspector and request that he e-mail you some raw photos and then perhaps we can take a better look at the situation to help you out.

    Good luck..


  39. #39
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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon mackay View Post
    Rich,

    A sensible coarse of action for this situation would be to:
    Identify the reason for excessive moisture in the attic (venting, bathroom exhaust, Prior flooding, wet basement, etc.)
    Correct the problem to prevent any future moisture issues.
    Mold cleanup may or may not be necessary depending on the severity (can't tell by the pictures)

    It is important to remember that air in the house moves up, this is called the stack effect. The air from your attic will not enter the living space unless by mechanical means.

    I would reach out to your inspector and request that he e-mail you some raw photos and then perhaps we can take a better look at the situation to help you out.

    Good luck..
    I emailed the inspector and will hopefully have the better pictures posted tonight or tomorrow. I trust my inspector and his judgement and again he tells me that because of the extent of the mold and the various locations it would be better to replace the roof because it would be less expensive to get to the problem mold because it provides more room and a safer environment for the workers because the attic is no bigger than a crawl space. I want to thank you all for your opinions and advice. I'm sorry for my ignorance but this is my first home and I don't want to put my family in a dangerous situation. They are my joy and I could never forgive myself if I didn't do everything I could to keep them safe as any husband and father would.


  40. #40
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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Quote Originally Posted by rich harris View Post
    .
    I trust my inspector and his judgment and again he tells me that because of the extent of the mold and the various locations it would be better to replace the roof
    .
    Rich,

    It is apparent the only " Fix" in your mind is a "Complete Roof " and affected rafter Replacement.
    .
    The Seller has decided Not to.
    .
    Time to Move on or Wrap Your mind around this Fact.
    .

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  41. #41
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    rich harris Guest

    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Stephens View Post
    .
    Rich,

    It is apparent the only " Fix" in your mind is a "Complete Roof " and affected rafter Replacement.
    .
    The Seller has decided Not to.
    .
    Time to Move on or Wrap Your mind around this Fact.
    .
    Actually the seller will "wrap his mind" around the fact that it will be cheaper to remove the roof and replace the effected areas than remediation. The State of Md has some serious safeguards once the work is completed which protects me and assures that the work is done properly. If the seller doesn't want to deal with me he'll have to deal with someone that maybe isn't as understanding as I am. In Md. once there is confirmation the home has an issue with mold it must be disclosed and makes it quite a bit harder to sell the home and usually results in selling it for much less than market value even in this tough economy.


  42. #42
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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon mackay View Post
    Rich,

    A sensible coarse of action for this situation would be to:
    Identify the reason for excessive moisture in the attic (venting, bathroom exhaust, Prior flooding, wet basement, etc.)
    Correct the problem to prevent any future moisture issues.
    Mold cleanup may or may not be necessary depending on the severity (can't tell by the pictures)

    It is important to remember that air in the house moves up, this is called the stack effect. The air from your attic will not enter the living space unless by mechanical means.

    I would reach out to your inspector and request that he e-mail you some raw photos and then perhaps we can take a better look at the situation to help you out.

    Good luck..

    Jon

    I invite you to read my post from above. The stack effect or heat rising is relative to the outside air temp. In the summer the stack effect reverses due to AC and is being hot out. The air in the house is falling and pulling in attic air.


  43. #43
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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Carlisle View Post
    Anybody can be sued for anything nowadays!

    Where's the law???? What code?????
    Civial lawsuits are not necessarily based on breaking a criminal law. Civial lawsuits are based on the harm done by one party to the other.

    In the mold classess I took the instructor told about various lawsuits. In one particular lawsuit a condo was leaking water in to the wall causing mold. The condo association hired a company to repair the damage. The repair was not done correctly. The units owner had moved back in an after a time again complained of being sick and then after a period of time the signs of mold became evident again. The unit owners then sued and won a judgement against the contractor and condo association.

    As a seller of a property if you took short cuts and did not follow proper protocol in cleaning and later the mold were to reoccur the seller may be liable.


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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Quote Originally Posted by rich harris View Post
    Actually the seller will "wrap his mind" around the fact that it will be cheaper to remove the roof and replace the effected areas than remediation. The State of Md has some serious safeguards once the work is completed which protects me and assures that the work is done properly. If the seller doesn't want to deal with me he'll have to deal with someone that maybe isn't as understanding as I am. In Md. once there is confirmation the home has an issue with mold it must be disclosed and makes it quite a bit harder to sell the home and usually results in selling it for much less than market value even in this tough economy.
    Rich

    The starting point is to have a mold tester/remediator inspect the property. Mold remediation involves many of the same safety steps as asbestos abatement. This is to prevent the spread of spores in to other parts of the house. The problem may be worse after a roof is replaced and the proper safety measure were not taken.

    The big problem with mold is the spores given off by mold. The spores are what people react to. These may have already been spread into the house and can be spread in to the house when the mold in the attic is distrubed. Simply tearing off the roof deck will not assure that the job has been done completely.

    I do not think your home inspector is the one to give you the advice on what the proper course of action should be.


  45. #45
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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Quote Originally Posted by rich harris View Post
    .
    If the seller doesn't want to deal with me he'll have to deal with someone that maybe isn't as understanding as I am.
    .
    Or He can just not Sell to You.
    * I know I wouldn't. Mr. Understanding.
    ** You're Going to Replace What I tell You .
    .

    In Md. once there is confirmation the home has an issue with mold it must be disclosed and makes it quite a bit harder to sell the home and usually results in selling it for much less than market value even in this tough economy.
    .
    It's Going to Take More than Pictures of Staining to Confirm Anything.
    .

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  46. #46
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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Get quotes for mold remediation and quotes for roof replacement. Decide from there which is the cheaper option.

    I feel the same about mold as many other HIs on this board. Mold has been around since the beginning of time. Some people can live around mold and never have any issues with it. When somebody asks me if the mold I see is toxic, I tell them peanut butter is toxic to some people.

    I don't think mold cleanup has to be as expensive as it is but the fact is that for people who have bad reactions to mold, widespread mold growth in a house either needs to get cleaned up properly or they need to look for another house. Even knowing what I know because of the work we do, I can't say I'd be real enthusiastic to buy a house with a mold issue. Not because it can't be corrected but because my nose is hyper sensitive to smells and scents and I would smell must and mildew......and it would drive me up a wall.


  47. #47
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    Talking re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Stephens View Post
    .
    Or He can just not Sell to You.
    * I know I wouldn't. Mr. Understanding.
    ** You're Going to Replace What I tell You .
    .


    .
    It's Going to Take More than Pictures of Staining to Confirm Anything.
    .
    actually yes they are going to do what I tel them or I'll move on and the home may sit or whatever because it doesn't matter to me. If you'd like to place your family in a home with mold be my guest but I wouldn't. I do know one thing ....It has to be handled either way and if not done properly the lawyers will handle it.


  48. #48
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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Stephens View Post
    .
    .
    .
    Time to Move on or Wrap Your mind around this Fact.
    .
    Quote Originally Posted by rich harris View Post
    .
    I'll move on and the home .
    .
    Thanks For Stopping By.
    .


    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  49. #49
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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Stephens View Post
    .
    Thanks For Stopping By.
    .
    I bet your customers value your advice especially concerning mold issues. It seems to me that there are many people in Tenn. with health issues considering your attitude about this situation. I bet you have a lot of happy clients.....NOT


  50. #50
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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Quote Originally Posted by rich harris View Post
    .
    .. I do know one thing ....It has to be handled either way and if not done properly the lawyers will handle it.
    .

    Quote Originally Posted by rich harris View Post
    I bet your customers value your advice especially concerning mold issues. It seems to me that there are many people in Tenn. with health issues considering your attitude about this situation. I bet you have a lot of happy clients.....NOT
    .
    Mr. Harris,

    You Sir are not a Client I would care to Inspect for.
    * aka Cheese Whiz.

    You appear to have $$$$$ Signs in your eyes with Intent to Defraud.

    Whiner, Sniveler,
    * you have receive a multitude of Free Advice.
    ** Yeah But I Want Someone to Put In Writing ( I Want A Free Roof ) .
    *** Don't Forget All The Air Ducts, Drapes, Carpets, AC Handler..............
    **** Heck Just Give Me 6-7 Mill and I Might Leave You alone ( for a while )
    .

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  51. #51
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    rich harris Guest

    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Stephens View Post
    .


    .
    Mr. Harris,

    You Sir are not a Client I would care to Inspect for.
    * aka Cheese Whiz.

    You appear to have $$$$$ Signs in your eyes with Intent to Defraud.

    Whiner, Sniveler,
    * you have receive a multitude of Free Advice.
    ** Yeah But I Want Someone to Put In Writing ( I Want A Free Roof ) .
    *** Don't Forget All The Air Ducts, Drapes, Carpets, AC Handler..............
    **** Heck Just Give Me 6-7 Mill and I Might Leave You alone ( for a while )
    .
    Seems someone doesn't know their job description. Your job is to inspect not to worry about your client ie. boss's use for your inspection. It also seems like you're an inspector that over steps what he's truly there to do which is to inspect. I bet you're good at what you do because not only do you inspect but give your unwanted opinions as well. I can hear you now "yes there is mold in the attic but in my opinion your infant son would be ok living there." Bottom line is you're not very smart if you do anything but inspect and let the person who pays you make the decision on what to do and I can tell by your posts that you don't have a clue about customer satisfaction which tells me you have a lot of free time during working hours. I never met an inspector that chooses his clients, you must be a very important man in Tenn. to be able to pick and choose his customer's in this economy. Wow I'm impressed


  52. #52
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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Quote Originally Posted by rich harris View Post

    Seems someone doesn't know their job description. Your job is to inspect not to worry about your client ie. boss's use for your inspection.
    .
    Spoken as a True Cheese Whiz.
    * make sure to tell your Attorney How The Cow Chews The Cabbage.
    ( you be "The Boss".)

    I refuse to be complicit to Criminal Fraud.
    * it's a matter of ethics ( Try Google after you finish your Mold Is Gold Search.)

    Last edited by Billy Stephens; 03-06-2010 at 07:56 PM. Reason: a added in ethics sentence
    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  53. #53
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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Stephens View Post
    .
    Spoken as a True Cheese Whiz.
    * make sure to tell your Attorney How The Cow Chews The Cabbage.
    ( you be "The Boss".)

    I refuse to be complicit to Criminal Fraud.
    * it's matter of ethics ( Try Google after you finish your Mold Is Gold Search.)
    Seems your not only a great inspector but bright as well. You somehow turned my concern for my family into a lawsuit. I never mentioned suing anyone in particular but you took it upon yourself to make this assumption. Seems like maybe someone has been sued before and maybe a little angry? And now you talk fraud...hmmmm. Nobody ever spoke of fraud but it seems the inspector from Tenn. is on a witch hunt. Let's be perfectly honest, you're trying to put words in my mouth and spin this thread to suit ( I didn't say lawsuit) your taste. I have a new name for you and it fits Mr. Sourpuss. Next time you try to spin a thread please read and understand what's written so you can at least attempt to know the true meaning of the thread. I guess they don't teach that at the big inspector's college in Tenn. You impress me with your lack of understanding and whit Mr. Sourpuss.


  54. #54
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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Quote Originally Posted by rich harris View Post
    I emailed the inspector and will hopefully have the better pictures posted tonight or tomorrow. I trust my inspector and his judgement and again he tells me that because of the extent of the mold and the various locations it would be better to replace the roof because it would be less expensive to get to the problem mold because it provides more room and a safer environment for the workers because the attic is no bigger than a crawl space. I want to thank you all for your opinions and advice. I'm sorry for my ignorance but this is my first home and I don't want to put my family in a dangerous situation. They are my joy and I could never forgive myself if I didn't do everything I could to keep them safe as any husband and father would.
    Quote Originally Posted by rich harris View Post
    Actually the seller will "wrap his mind" around the fact that it will be cheaper to remove the roof and replace the effected areas than remediation. The State of Md has some serious safeguards once the work is completed which protects me and assures that the work is done properly. If the seller doesn't want to deal with me he'll have to deal with someone that maybe isn't as understanding as I am. In Md. once there is confirmation the home has an issue with mold it must be disclosed and makes it quite a bit harder to sell the home and usually results in selling it for much less than market value even in this tough economy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Hronek View Post
    Civial lawsuits are not necessarily based on breaking a criminal law. Civial lawsuits are based on the harm done by one party to the other.

    In the mold classess I took the instructor told about various lawsuits. In one particular lawsuit a condo was leaking water in to the wall causing mold. The condo association hired a company to repair the damage. The repair was not done correctly. The units owner had moved back in an after a time again complained of being sick and then after a period of time the signs of mold became evident again. The unit owners then sued and won a judgement against the contractor and condo association.

    As a seller of a property if you took short cuts and did not follow proper protocol in cleaning and later the mold were to reoccur the seller may be liable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Hronek View Post
    Rich

    The starting point is to have a mold tester/remediator inspect the property. Mold remediation involves many of the same safety steps as asbestos abatement. This is to prevent the spread of spores in to other parts of the house. The problem may be worse after a roof is replaced and the proper safety measure were not taken.

    The big problem with mold is the spores given off by mold. The spores are what people react to. These may have already been spread into the house and can be spread in to the house when the mold in the attic is distrubed. Simply tearing off the roof deck will not assure that the job has been done completely.

    I do not think your home inspector is the one to give you the advice on what the proper course of action should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by rich harris View Post
    actually yes they are going to do what I tel them or I'll move on and the home may sit or whatever because it doesn't matter to me. If you'd like to place your family in a home with mold be my guest but I wouldn't. I do know one thing ....It has to be handled either way and if not done properly the lawyers will handle it.
    Quote Originally Posted by rich harris View Post
    I bet your customers value your advice especially concerning mold issues. It seems to me that there are many people in Tenn. with health issues considering your attitude about this situation. I bet you have a lot of happy clients.....NOT
    Quote Originally Posted by rich harris View Post
    Seems someone doesn't know their job description. Your job is to inspect not to worry about your client ie. boss's use for your inspection. It also seems like you're an inspector that over steps what he's truly there to do which is to inspect. I bet you're good at what you do because not only do you inspect but give your unwanted opinions as well. I can hear you now "yes there is mold in the attic but in my opinion your infant son would be ok living there." Bottom line is you're not very smart if you do anything but inspect and let the person who pays you make the decision on what to do and I can tell by your posts that you don't have a clue about customer satisfaction which tells me you have a lot of free time during working hours. I never met an inspector that chooses his clients, you must be a very important man in Tenn. to be able to pick and choose his customer's in this economy. Wow I'm impressed
    .
    .
    Saved for The Plaintiff on any possible litigation.
    *before Cheese Whiz gets a Clue and deletes his Post.
    .
    .

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  55. #55
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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Stephens View Post
    .
    .
    Saved for The Plaintiff on any possible litigation.
    *before Cheese Whiz gets a Clue and deletes his Post.
    .
    .
    Seems Mr. Sourpuss has a lot of time on his hands, lol. This says a lot about you and I think you need a therapist to help you with your compulsive disorder. I guess since your not out inspecting you have a lot of time to post. You posted a couple of thousand times here and I think I've figured out what you need and haven't had so maybe you don't have so much time to spend letting everyone know how smart you are, it's called a WOMAN. Oh, and before you attempt to get this women get to a gym, shave, brush your teeth, and change your attitude. Just a little Dr. Phil advice between friends. One more thing, avoid mirrors to keep you motivated.


  56. #56
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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Quote Originally Posted by rich harris View Post
    actually yes they are going to do what I tel them or I'll move on and the home may sit or whatever because it doesn't matter to me. If you'd like to place your family in a home with mold be my guest but I wouldn't. I do know one thing ....It has to be handled either way and if not done properly the lawyers will handle it.
    Quote Originally Posted by rich harris View Post
    Seems your not only a great inspector but bright as well. You somehow turned my concern for my family into a lawsuit. I never mentioned suing anyone in particular but you took it upon yourself to make this assumption. Seems like maybe someone has been sued before and maybe a little angry? And now you talk fraud...hmmmm. Nobody ever spoke of fraud but it seems the inspector from Tenn. is on a witch hunt. Let's be perfectly honest, you're trying to put words in my mouth and spin this thread to suit ( I didn't say lawsuit) your taste. I have a new name for you and it fits Mr. Sourpuss. Next time you try to spin a thread please read and understand what's written so you can at least attempt to know the true meaning of the thread. I guess they don't teach that at the big inspector's college in Tenn. You impress me with your lack of understanding and whit Mr. Sourpuss.
    .
    Thank You for additional archived comment.
    .

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  57. #57
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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Talk about a thread going down the tubes.


  58. #58
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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Ostrowski View Post
    .
    Talk about a thread going down the tubes.
    .
    Just Call me a Dream Killer.
    * aka Mr.Sourpuss
    .

    .

    ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images
    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
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  59. #59
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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Quote Originally Posted by rich harris View Post
    actually yes they are going to do what I tel them or I'll move on ...

    That is precisely what Billy has been trying to tell you ... that the seller does not HAVE to do what you say, they can simply not sell to you, and you can move on.

    There may be consequences for either course of action, but YOU cannot make the seller do anything, and, if you try to make the seller do what they do not want to, you may well end up with exactly what you do not want - but do not yet know it.

    Buyers like you create problems for all buyers - if you REALLY WANT THE HOUSE, you may well need to make some considerations and compromises, and YOU did say you really want that house.

    Billy is simply point the above facts out to you.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  60. #60
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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Ostrowski View Post
    Talk about a thread going down the tubes.

    Yeppers.

    And we've all had clients like him - wanting everything done his way, and usually to the point that they end up walking away too late and missing out on some other deal.

    This comes down to what I have always said: No seller is required to make repairs, only to spend money, and that money could very well be spent very foolishly and then the buyer is stuck with what the results are - thus the buyer should just get the money and make the repairs themselves (or if the seller does not give the money, then the buyer should wise up and walk away).

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  61. #61
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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Quote Originally Posted by rich harris View Post
    I received confirmation today that the seller of the property will with remediation over replacing the roof which would make the job easier. The inspector told me that it would be cheaper to just replace materials including the roof as opposed to sending people in there to clean everything. What's your experience with this is it better to clean it in tight quarters or just remove the roof to make it easier and cheaper to do?

    Remember the inspector said and I quote "
    The roof sheathing has fungi growth indicating previous moisture intrusion and poor ventilation in attic.
    The cause of moisture needs to be found and corrected The ventilation should be increased as soon as
    possible I recommend ridge vents be installed next roof replacement. I also recommend that a licensed
    mold inspector and remediator inspect further and suggest the needed repair or replacements of the attic
    space. Some decking may need to be replaced, due to the amount of mold"

    Please give your input and possible cost for each job. Thanks.
    The inspector basically made the correct statement. Although I wouldn't have made a specific corrective recommendation or added the last sentence. If you want cost estimates, call the appropriate contractors.

    The above statements are expressed solely as my opinion and in all probability will conflict with someone else's.
    Stu, Fredericksburg VA

  62. #62
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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Agreed, find out what the Seller $$ agreed remediation would be, discount the the selling price and you perform the fix that puts a smile on your family's face.


  63. #63
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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Brody View Post
    .
    Agreed, find out what the Seller $$ agreed remediation would be, discount the the selling price and you perform the fix that puts a smile on your family's face.
    .
    Phil,

    If He Did That He Might be Accepting Some Responsibility ( Cheese Whiz's ) Never Do That.

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  64. #64
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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Bill,
    Eventually most grow up and join the real world or just exsist as miserable people, they always have the choice.


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    Default re: Extensive mold in crawl space

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Brody View Post
    Agreed, find out what the Seller $$ agreed remediation would be, discount the the selling price and you perform the fix that puts a smile on your family's face.
    I doubt the lender would agree to lend on a house that has yet to be remediated. Of course with all the breaking of leading rules the unscrupulous would try to find a way around it.

    If the house is worth X without mold then let the seller put it in that condition and not try to hide it and pass it on to someone else. Any repairs should be done following EPA protocols. Bring in a mold guy and have it looked at. If he says that tearing off the roof is the cheaper and acceptable method then do that.

    I have not read every post but it seems as the buyer is just asking that it be done correctly. It is in the sellers best interest to do the repairs and be done with it. I say that because as it sits he has a buyer waiting to purchase at what he thinks is a reasonable price. If he doesn't follow through with the sale and wants to sell it with the mold then he must disclose it to everyone else. When he does this he will find that any future buyers will not be able to get conventional financing. Basically its unsaleable expect to an investor at a deep discount. IF he holds out and later decides to do the repairs his property may have a stigma from being on the market to long. In this cause he will have lost time and money. It's the seller's problem, let him deal with the uncertainty and cost.


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