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  1. #1
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    Default Blower Door & IR Camera Combo

    Last edited by Bruce Breedlove; 04-03-2010 at 11:13 PM. Reason: This thread was a bad idea . . .
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  2. #2
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Blower Door & IR Camera Combo

    Nice stuff Bruce... What kind of Camera do you use ?

    I've been wanting to get a blower door set up some day.

    I like to remove all the information in the images.

    Good info Bruce...

    Best

    Ron


  3. #3
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    Default Re: Blower Door & IR Camera Combo

    Ron,

    I have a Flir EX320. The blower door is a Minneapolis Blower Door sold by The Energy Conservatory.

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  4. #4
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Blower Door & IR Camera Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Breedlove View Post
    Ron,

    I have a Flir EX320. The blower door is a Minneapolis Blower Door sold by The Energy Conservatory.
    You paid 9,000.00 for a camera

    Damn I feel like a cheap SOB for buying a 700.00 Sony A500 camera body. I guess I am cheap even though its a very nice DSLR. One good reason was the few thousand in auto focus lenses I bought some 20 to 25 years ago for my Minolta maxim 7000

    You paid 9,000.00 for a camera ????????????????????????????? My hats off to you. Either you make some fairly seroius money from it or you just wanted an expensive toy. I was just looking at a 2000 Cobalt bow rider with a new 7.6 litre motor for about 12,000.00. Now that is a toy to seriously enjoy. For partt time IR business, Which almost all inspectors that own one is, That is a lot of cash to pick up that part time work and then as part time it will only take years to get the pay back.

    Don't mind me, just some random thoughts out loud.


  5. #5
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Blower Door & IR Camera Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Breedlove View Post
    Ron,

    I have a Flir EX320. The blower door is a Minneapolis Blower Door sold by The Energy Conservatory.
    Nice Camera Bruce... I have the BX320... I wanted to alarms the the BX320 Has over the EX320. But then the other day I would like to have had your camera for some temp work.

    Did you get the 45 Degree lens ?

    Best

    Ron

    Last edited by Ron Bibler; 04-02-2010 at 06:11 PM.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Blower Door & IR Camera Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    Don't mind me. . .
    I have no problem doing that. Your response was very predictable, much like Pavlov's dog.

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  7. #7
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Blower Door & IR Camera Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Breedlove View Post
    I have no problem doing that. Your response was very predictable, much like Pavlov's dog.

    The mistake you just made was to believe you know me. That is your biggest mistake. If I wanted you to know me and what I really thought about any given subject I would invite you and your family down for the weekend.

    The predictable part......you have no idea. Now I could tell you everything about you and your life and family and friends but I won't get into that. That just happens to be my scruge in life and once my job. I could more than likely tell you things about yourself that you would deny openly but inside you would be cringing at the accuracy.

    For some reason or other you took my earlier post personally. As you said. your response was VERY predictable.

    Now if you actually read and understood my post as in the last sentence "Don't mind me, just some random thoughts out loud." You would not have responded as you did. Nothing direct and personal as you thought was meant even though seemingly directed toward you. Must of struck a nerve.

    9,000.00 for a camera ???????????


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Blower Door & IR Camera Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    Must of struck a nerve.
    Yeah, you must of . . I mean you must have.

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    Default Re: Blower Door & IR Camera Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    You paid 9,000.00 for a camera

    You paid 9,000.00 for a camera ?????????????????????????????
    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    9,000.00 for a camera ???????????
    You are predictable is many ways , but then, we all are.

    $9,000 is ... CHEAP ... compared to what I paid for my infrared camera when I bought it back in 2004 (which was generations ago as related to infrared cameras).

    I paid $13,000 for a camera which is not as cool as those newer cameras are ... cool but not as cool.

    Did that camera make money for me? You bet it did. I suppose that the ADDITIONAL inspections I got from referrals JUST BECAUSE I HAD THAT CAMERA back then probably equated to another $50,000 per year for the next 3 years of ADDITIONAL inspections I would not have had without that camera.

    Was that camera expensive?

    No sir, when $13,000 makes $150,000 over 3 years, that is called CHEAP and SMART.

    Some of you will never get it (the reason for getting an infrared camera as well as getting the camera), some of you will get it (the camera, but not understand how to put it to good everyday use - the key word there was "everyday"), and others will get it (all of it as they understand it).

    AND ... I RARELY used my infrared camera for finding water leaks - a few times, yes, but rarely - it was everything else I found out that I could see with it (or 'not see', as in 'not see what I should have seen').

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  10. #10
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Blower Door & IR Camera Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    You are predictable is many ways , but then, we all are.

    $9,000 is ... CHEAP ... compared to what I paid for my infrared camera when I bought it back in 2004 (which was generations ago as related to infrared cameras).

    I paid $13,000 for a camera which is not as cool as those newer cameras are ... cool but not as cool.

    Did that camera make money for me? You bet it did. I suppose that the ADDITIONAL inspections I got from referrals JUST BECAUSE I HAD THAT CAMERA back then probably equated to another $50,000 per year for the next 3 years of ADDITIONAL inspections I would not have had without that camera.

    Was that camera expensive?

    No sir, when $13,000 makes $150,000 over 3 years, that is called CHEAP and SMART.

    Some of you will never get it (the reason for getting an infrared camera as well as getting the camera), some of you will get it (the camera, but not understand how to put it to good everyday use - the key word there was "everyday"), and others will get it (all of it as they understand it).

    AND ... I RARELY used my infrared camera for finding water leaks - a few times, yes, but rarely - it was everything else I found out that I could see with it (or 'not see', as in 'not see what I should have seen').

    You are having serious nightmares about the extra 50,000 a year for three years. The amount of folks out there with cameras and market them heavily day in and day out do not get that much more work a year. It is a good money maker for them over time but the training and testing and purchase and different levels and so on and so on and then the constant marketing cost an absolute fortune over time to get that business built up. I would say you got the inspections for the sake of the inspection and the camera was just one more point but you would have gotten them anyway.

    Now I also know that there is some pretty heavy stuff to be smoked that is floating into shore in Florida all the time. I understand it is so good that it even makes one have wild nightmares when awake.

    Also over medication of Doctor prescribed meds will make you do that as well.

    As far as pavlovs dog.......seriously who take those courses and never find it possible to put it to use at least always remember the Pavlovs dog bull. For some strange reason they all have a mental fart over it and it sticks like glue.

    As far as "Yeah, you must of . . I mean you must have."

    Seriously Bruce. Do we want to get down to the bare bones of things? I have read every post for quite some time. Lets not go toward the misspelled word or misuse of word thing.

    50,000.00 a year just due to the camera for three years straight. Extra at that. You can sell me about anything Jerry but I am not buying those numbers at all. I know foks with these cameras that push them every day of their lives. Most of the only reason they are using them is because they are throwing the IR inspection in for free. They get a few more inspection because of the cameras but not in the tune of a fraction of 50,000.00 a year extra. Then of course take all that money away for the marketing and cost of training and cost of the camera.........................................

    Get it. Yeah I get it. After one spends a small fortune to only gain back their cost over a few years, then they start making money.

    Now lets take the countless folks that spent all this money and really make no money off of it over time. That number is absolutely huge. Those are the real facts Mister Jerry and Bruce. But , and I will give you the but, there are a very tiny handful of folks out there that do make a decent extra income from their camera. The vast amount and I mean absolute major majority of inspectors out there do not even make 50,000.00 a year doing home inspections. Even those that push the free IR with the inspections. And that is also an absolute fact. Just because some hit it right on with the IR. arket it perfectly.


  11. #11
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    Default Re: Blower Door & IR Camera Combo

    One of these cameras would not get me any more business. People in this area love the idea of additional tests and inspections until they have to pay for them. An IR camera would be a neat tool in my bag but it would likely end up losing me work because I would have to bump up my inspection fees to pay for the camera and all the training. And most buyers around here seem to make their decisions on how much something is going to cost them.

    It sounds like the market for IR is very localized. I can tell you the demand for it around here is practically non-existant.

    Last edited by Nick Ostrowski; 04-03-2010 at 06:56 PM.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Blower Door & IR Camera Combo

    My intention was to share some photos that I thought other inspectors would find interesting. Unfortunately (although quite predictably) this thread has turned into another pi$$ing match.

    Thanks for hijacking my thread.

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  13. #13
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Blower Door & IR Camera Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Breedlove View Post
    My intention was to share some photos that I thought other inspectors would find interesting. Unfortunately (although quite predictably) this thread has turned into another pi$$ing match.

    Thanks for hijacking my thread.
    Contrary to your belief I am highly interested and never said I was not. I for one would love to see the pictures. They always fascinate me. I have used IR cameras over the years a multitude of times.

    Nothing personal Bruce. I just have a strong belief that I should or someone should say something to the folks selling all of this that there is really very little in the field for the IR camera to make money with unless a small fortune is spent promoting the business. Just like in home inspection. The guys coming in are brain washed into thinking they are going to get out there and make a hundred grand a year. Maybe a few, but no even a slight percentage.

    Like I said. Nothing personal. I am actually a sweet heart of a guy.

    Post the pics. I am quite sure many including myself would be interested.

    When new inspectors call me and ask the facts about work and money I tell them like it is. I tell them that yes they actually could make a killing but the likelihood is that they will not. Kind of like become a rock star. Everyone with the interest thinks of the big dollar signs but a minute amount ever really make it. Same with IR and the same in home inspection. Someone has to be straight with these folks. Getting into home inspection costs tens of thousands to get rolling before the real money starts rolling in. Getting into the IR business is the same thing. Before anyone gets into either I will give them the real deal. Not the hype.


  14. #14
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    Default Re: Blower Door & IR Camera Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    .
    Contrary to your belief

    I am actually a sweet heart of a guy.
    .
    .
    .
    We Know Ted, we know.
    .

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  15. #15
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    Default Re: Blower Door & IR Camera Combo

    Sorry Bruce, but when this subject matter is raised, I feel compelled to respond.

    What those pictures tell you can also be detected by a $300 single point IR thermometer and later confirmed visually. The measurement guts of the single point hand held device is basically identical to the camera except for scanning, rastorizing and displaying temperature in a color band.

    I bet most of those who already own a single point IR device hardly use it efficiently or in many cases hardky use it "at all". Why? Training????

    I wondered why those companies selling cameras push the certification process - perhaps the above statement is the reason, but more than likely the "extra bucks" It is a shame....

    Learn how to use your Hand held single-point, under stand the principles and you will not require certification. Visit me, for a mere $30.00 I will train you and there is an additional $20.00 to print the certificate in frame.

    All the best - Richard


  16. #16
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    Default Re: Blower Door & IR Camera Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Soundy View Post
    Sorry Bruce, but when this subject matter is raised, I feel compelled to respond.

    What those pictures tell you can also be detected by a $300 single point IR thermometer and later confirmed visually. The measurement guts of the single point hand held device is basically identical to the camera except for scanning, rastorizing and displaying temperature in a color band.

    I bet most of those who already own a single point IR device hardly use it efficiently or in many cases hardky use it "at all". Why? Training????

    I wondered why those companies selling cameras push the certification process - perhaps the above statement is the reason, but more than likely the "extra bucks" It is a shame....

    Learn how to use your Hand held single-point, under stand the principles and you will not require certification. Visit me, for a mere $30.00 I will train you and there is an additional $20.00 to print the certificate in frame.

    All the best - Richard
    When walking thru the home I point my thermometer everywhere. Lights. switches openings of all sorts....everywhere. On occasion I pick up some interesting finds.


  17. #17
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    Default Re: Blower Door & IR Camera Combo

    I have no Idea what Ted was saying. I do over $ 25K with infrared a year. No problem... I have a few web-sites I just did some work for a broiler Mag. In my area. they make ovens for these Berger King fast food. That was a fun job standing around adjusting my camera we had the Video out connected to a projector and set up on a big screen in the room. That way all the design guys could see the oven at work in real time. I have large apartment buildings in the San Francisco bay area that I do moisture inspection for. Roof and Window leaks.

    Some of these small jobs pay over a $ 1,000 a day.

    So to do over $ 50K in a year is not out of line...

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    Default Re: Blower Door & IR Camera Combo

    Ridiculous.

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    Default Re: Blower Door & IR Camera Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    You are having serious nightmares about the extra 50,000 a year for three years. The amount of folks out there with cameras and market them heavily day in and day out do not get that much more work a year.

    Ted, Ted, Ted, ... (sigh)

    You are comparing me and my clients to the average home inspector and their clients, which leads me to presume they are similar to your clients ...

    ... MY clients, on the other hand, were willing to pay my hourly rate, for the length of time I was at my inspections, AND BECAUSE I had that camera I brought in a lot more of MY inspections ... BECAUSE ... yes, because I had that camera I was referred more and the referrals were stronger in 'You HAVE to call my inspector, no one else does what he does and you need what he does.'

    Yes, that was indeed The Country Club Set, but that was my market, and when E. F. Hutton says ...

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  20. #20
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    Default Re: Blower Door & IR Camera Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Ted, Ted, Ted, ... (sigh)

    You are comparing me and my clients to the average home inspector and their clients, which leads me to presume they are similar to your clients ...

    ... MY clients, on the other hand, were willing to pay my hourly rate, for the length of time I was at my inspections, AND BECAUSE I had that camera I brought in a lot more of MY inspections ... BECAUSE ... yes, because I had that camera I was referred more and the referrals were stronger in 'You HAVE to call my inspector, no one else does what he does and you need what he does.'

    Yes, that was indeed The Country Club Set, but that was my market, and when E. F. Hutton says ...

    Were willing to may until the market woke up and also became flooded with inspectors.

    For what you tell me Jerry your inspections were and are no different than mine. A bunch a certs behind you but that today gets you nothing in the way of thousands of dollars per inspection.

    Like I said....."were". It ended just as the other inspector said. Ended, done and buried.

    Its a home inspection Jerry.. To spend days in a home doing a home inspection at 10 to 20 thousand square feet is absolutely impossible unless you had your cot out for a nap and were drinking margaritas all day.

    No matter how good you thought you were there is still only so much to look at and report on. No matter how many times you walked around that home and how many pictures you took and how many times you checked each system and looked at the attic framing and roofing and exterior and interior there is still only so much time one could ever even consider spending in a home doing a home inspection. "Daysssss on any job inspecting homes is impossible.

    You did not do blower door tests so what did you find with the camera that the clients could not live with out? A piece of missing insulation. A drafty window. A very occasional wet spot. An occasional water leak.

    Sigh....oh sigh.....oh sigh.

    And as far as Bruce not knowing what I and others are talking about then he is blind to the world on reality. There are thousands of inspectors out there with cameras and a small pittance of them make anything that they could or would consider substantial with their camera. Most and I do mean most from talking to countless use it for show and go at the inspections but rarely find things other than the obvious such as in older homes that we all know have little to no insulation and an occasional leak or occasional hot outlet.

    My clients are your clients Jerry. Come down off the pedestal. You are now in an era where no one is going to pay multiple thousands (the kind you talk of often) for their home inspection. If you did then you were in the right market at the right time and lucked out getting into a group of foolish and flaky buyers. That just does not happen anymore Jerry. The occassional mega home turns up for inspectors. No one is out there inspecting them every day. Big one, little one a whole slew of medium ones, another big one, back into a huge one down to a tiny one and so on.

    The marketing and the outlay of funds that Bruce spends may get him several thousand a year which takes away from being able to do home inspections so now count that loss. The cost to get it is huge.

    Check into reality Jerry with your Sighing that you come out with. If you could still be making that kind of money you would and not doing municipal inspedctions so once again check into reality and the dreams at the door and stop your sighing. Oh wait. Don't tell me. You would rather be doing muni work instead of the occasional multi thousand dollar inspection. One a month or maybe two small mansions would get you what you make doing muni work.

    Oh yes. As far as the IR camera gig....why are you not doing that? It is easy work, fantastic pay and so easy to get all you have to do is tack your camera to your mail box with a card holder and put a few thousand cards into the card holder every week.

    You are the average home inspector Jerry. You were just able to snow folks into thinking different with you 100 page reports that had about nothing to do with the few minor and occasional major concerns you found.

    For some reason you feel a tremendous need to blow your own horn. For what reason I simply do not know. You used to be a home inspector with ICC certs behind you. Why does it seem that the ICC cert guys put themselves on an entirely different level. Why is it that because one (not all) that becomes a muni inspector feels he is at a higher level than the mere mortal home inspectors that just happen to find a plethora of items they miss all year long, and that is with their certs behind them.

    Jerry, you really got me on a roll with your pitiful sigh. Yes, absolutely pitiful. Again that other level thing for what ever reason I do not know. You love to belittle folks when reality is put in your face. There is nothing I said about IR that is not true.

    There is a very tiny percent of IR camera owners that make any significant money with them. Most do not pay the (or recoup) outlay of funds off for years. Some go the full IR business into the rehab business and weather proofing and put out a small fortune every year promoting it. The thousands upon thousands of dollars made doing single home inspections is still done on a rare occasion to a single home here and there but that is almost completely dead.

    Now tell me Mister Sighing Jerry. What part of that last paragraph is not true.

    Please. When you respond check your sigh at the door.

    If you need help in deciphering what I said I will bring my four year old nephew over tomorrow to reply to your questions. Damn...that was belittling, was it not?


  21. #21
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Blower Door & IR Camera Combo

    Ted look over my post on # 18. I do good with IR and I working on moving full time into that area as I get to the end of my inspection days.

    Even in a bad market you can make money

    Best

    Ron


  22. #22
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    Default Re: Blower Door & IR Camera Combo

    Why do some HIs on this board find it so hard to believe that other HIs are busy and get a lot of work and revenue from a special service? Just because one area of the country isn't hopping doesn't mean all other areas are dead too.


  23. #23
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Blower Door & IR Camera Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Ostrowski View Post
    Why do some HIs on this board find it so hard to believe that other HIs are busy and get a lot of work and revenue from a special service? Just because one area of the country isn't hopping doesn't mean all other areas are dead too.
    No one said that you cannot make money with special services. The only thing I read was that with theses services just like any type of business there are a very small portion that do. The rest make next to nothing and an extremely small amount of people hit it big.


  24. #24
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    Default Re: Blower Door & IR Camera Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    For what you tell me Jerry your inspections were and are no different than mine.

    Its a home inspection Jerry.. To spend days in a home doing a home inspection at 10 to 20 thousand square feet is absolutely impossible unless you had your cot out for a nap and were drinking margaritas all day.

    Ted,

    You have very clearly defined that you have no idea: a) what a home inspection is; b) what a home inspection was for my clients. While I believe you really think you understand what a) is, you have no grasp, and no demonstrated ability to grasp, what b) is.

    I can tell by your continued responses repeating that it must only be as you envision it or is cannot be.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  25. #25
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Blower Door & IR Camera Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Ted,

    You have very clearly defined that you have no idea: a) what a home inspection is; b) what a home inspection was for my clients. While I believe you really think you understand what a) is, you have no grasp, and no demonstrated ability to grasp, what b) is.

    I can tell by your continued responses repeating that it must only be as you envision it or is cannot be.
    Jerry

    Your comments are totally screwed.

    As far as having a clue I can guaranty you I have more of a clue than you ever thought of having.

    Why is it that when anyone presents you with reality this is your only come back.

    The constant belittling is equivalent of the napoleon syndrome or the little man in the pants just has to strike out.

    What is your so apparent problem. You not once have come back with any reality to the facts that I have quoted. Repeated. It needed to be. You being the one that is constantly telling others that they do not know how to read and they do not understand.

    Oh wait. I get it. I struck a nerve. Was it the part about what the hell are you doing muni inspections instead of taking in part time major bucks from IR or mega mansion multi thousand per home inspections?

    If it were there or should I say still there then you would be doing that on a part time basis.

    Jerry does have a nerve after all. Jerry can put out what ever he wishes and cannot take any logical or reality check what so ever. The only come back he ever has when it comes to it is the belittling of others.

    I use to think highly of you Jerry but you have dissolved that quite well.

    Well, enough of this. It goes no where when it gets to this point with you and never has. You are an older man getting older and have a difficult time dealing with life. You should learn to keep it civil Jerry. You will find life is so much sweeter. I for one never took ignorant crap from anyone Jerry and you will certainly not be the one to push you little bully ways and get away with it. Its time to regrow up Jerry. Someday you will thank me for this.


  26. #26
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    Default Re: Blower Door & IR Camera Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    You should learn to keep it civil Jerry.
    Ted,

    I am keeping it civil.

    I am also pointing out what you are lacking in understanding, and, yes, that does seem to have hit a nerve ... yours.

    You had no problem telling ALL OF US that if you do not understand it and it is not your way, that it is not a home inspection.

    But - when someone points out that it is you who does not understand it and that there are many components to a home inspection, many of which you apparently have not grasped (if you had grasped them you would not be making your comments), then you get all bent out of shape. Ted, you will find life much easier if you don't get bent out of shape so quickly over everything. Ted, you need to learn to chill out and enjoy life some, Ted, you need to understand that THERE IS/CAN BE more to a home inspection than what just Ted thinks there is/what can be. Ted, you are like the blind man holding the elephants trunk and trying to convince all others that THAT and only THAT is what an elephant is - you simply cannot see what the others around you are seeing, that there are big floppy ears, long skinny tail, big fat legs, HUGE body, etc.

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