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  1. #1
    William Richardson's Avatar
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    Question GC doing home inspection

    Why do GC's even have the right to home inspect. I was one so I have the right to ask. Sure some know about construction but a majority don't have a clue. I have taken 20 yrs to gain the knowledge I have focusing on Home inspecting. Sending a GC on a home inspection is like having a GYN do a root canal. Once you get past the lips, it's a different world. Just venting!

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    Right, we have those here too. We have a license law for home inspection along with fines for violators if they get turned in, but it doesn't stop individuals from voicing opinions and getting paid for it. The law here does prohibit an unlicensed inspector from advertising HI services.

    This thread should have gone in the Inspector Blues slot, but you are welcome to vent here in the attic area.

    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
    www.allsafehome.ca

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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    It's my opinion that without adequate training for H.I.ing it can be difficult to appreciate how all the different systems and components in the home interact with each other. I also believe that while the GC may understand many aspects of new construction they might be a little weak in their exposure to how well things hold up in the long run.

    Eric Barker, ACI
    Lake Barrington, IL

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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    Quote Originally Posted by William Richardson View Post
    Why do GC's even have the right to home inspect. I was one so I have the right to ask.
    You won't like the answer, but ...

    The answer is that it was a lot easier to allow GCs, BCs, and RCs to apply for a home inspectors license than it was for the much smaller home inspector associations and much fewer in number home inspectors to attempt to fight the much larger home builders association and the much greater in number Division 1 contractors about them not knowing enough to do home inspections.

    I am also a GC, and when I went from being a GC to being a home inspector so many years ago, it was like I did not know anything - even though I had spent my life doing construction work of all phases. On the 'doing construction work' side of it I was doing what I had learned during all those years, then on the 'home inspector' side of it I learned that what I had learned was how to 'make things look right' when finished, but not necessarily how to 'make things right' so as to not have problems.

    Then, during my home inspection time, and once I realized all that had been done incorrectly, I started expanding my knowledge of the codes and ended up applying that knowledge to all the new construction I was doing as a home inspector, and I was seeing that the other GCs did the same things I had done, only now I knew what to look for and why it did not work over time, and, how the codes addressed it.

    After I retired from home inspections in 2006 I now do AHJ code inspections trying to help GCs learn what one would think they should already have known.

    The GCs, BCs, and RCs who are doing home inspections (their grandfather date is come and gone, they either are already home inspectors or they will need to take the same route as any other new home inspector) are now on the same learning curve you are, and are probably telling themselves 'Dang, man, this requires A LOT more knowledge than I thought it did.'

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    I had a call last week to schedule an inspection. Nothing was scheduled, but the agent was checking availability. I didn't think any more about it and got another call a week later for a Wind Mitigation. Turned out the buyer was a Canadian builder and didn't need a home inspection. I went for the Wind Mit, and saw seven things between walking around the house one time, and putting my head through the scuttle hole. I never entered the interior of the house. He said, "Maybe I should have had an inspection, aye."

    Paul Kondzich
    Ft. Myers, FL.

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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    What concerns me more, at least in Texas, is allowing PEs to do home inspections. At least the GC, which I was for 20 years prior to inspecting, has a boots-on-the-ground perspective of the construction process. Most, if not all, PEs receive no residential training in school. A few that I have met, if not many, suffer from the same ailment as most people in their seeming total lack of common sense. All of that coupled with no code training and no clue as to the effects the process of aging has on a structure and you have a recipe for disaster.

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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Miller View Post
    What concerns me more, at least in Texas, is allowing PEs to do home inspections. At least the GC, which I was for 20 years prior to inspecting, has a boots-on-the-ground perspective of the construction process. Most, if not all, PEs receive no residential training in school. A few that I have met, if not many, suffer from the same ailment as most people in their seeming total lack of common sense. All of that coupled with no code training and no clue as to the effects the process of aging has on a structure and you have a recipe for disaster.

    i agree with Aaron... A person might be a PE and doing home inspections but they might have their engineering discipline in Agriculture or Bio Medicine or any of the many unrelated engineering fields. Earning a PE designation is a great accomplishment but it does not mean you know about residential light construction and inspecting homes.

    Heck my niece is a PE, but she is an environmental engineer who know diddly squat about home inspections..

    Scott Patterson, ACI
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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    Heck my niece is a PE, but she is an environmental engineer who know diddly squat about home inspections..
    Texas law allows any PE to inspect houses without the otherwise required education and licensing. All too often I find that the PE "inspector" is an electrical engineer or electronics engineer, or has spent the last few years designing bowling balls, brassieres, or video games. One need merely visit the site of the Board of Engineers to discover what field their degree is in.

    Of course, in Texas, what with absolutely no home builder or contractor oversight, perhaps it is apropos. Why would one need a full-blown structural engineer to critique an unlicensed, uninsured, uneducated, unbonded builder wannabe who builds shacks d.b.a. houses?

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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    The bigger joke than PEs doing home inspections is architects doing them.

    Jerry McCarthy
    Building Code/ Construction Consultant

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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry McCarthy View Post
    The bigger joke than PEs doing home inspections is architects doing them.
    Glad to see you posting, WC Jerry.

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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry McCarthy View Post
    The bigger joke than PEs doing home inspections is architects doing them.
    Agreed!

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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    If the contractors were qualified to do home inspections, nobody would need a home inspection, we wouldn't have anything to report. Thank goodness, they aren't.

    END GLOBAL WHINING

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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    Quote Originally Posted by Benjamin Thompson View Post
    If the contractors were qualified to do home inspections, nobody would need a home inspection, we wouldn't have anything to report. Thank goodness, they aren't.
    Ahmen ! In my state to get a G/C license it takes a limited amout of $ , ( used to be $ 15 , probably $ 200 to $ 500 now ), and the ability to fill out the app-le-kay-shun. Engineers as an inspector are a joke. Their education / discipline is too specific to meet the need, ( geo-tech, electrical, environmental, etc. ). Architects have a more diverse education, but the same issues remain - - - limited depth in too many of the Home Inspection disciplines. G/Cs build, engineers engineer, Architects design and Home Inspectors inspect homes. If the local laws say differently, their dangerously off base.


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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    I'm a P.E. (civil) with a background in concrete, steel and timber construction. Guess that qualifies me for being "a joke" by you HI's.

    Oh, and I've built a few garages and major home additions, poured more concrete than I can count, laid brick and block, framed a few complex roof additions, plumbed and wired more than I care to think about, welded structural steel, etc.

    Hope I graduate from the "joke" category before I leave this planet! For sure, the clock is ticking.

    And I even know the difference between "their" and "they're."


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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    Quote Originally Posted by BridgeMan View Post
    I'm a P.E. (civil) with a background in concrete, steel and timber construction. Guess that qualifies me for being "a joke" by you HI's.
    The comments were obviously not intended to address engineers, like yourself, with actual construction experience. They were aimed at the >90% of P.E.s who know absolutely nothing of residential (or any other) construction techniques. Much like doctors and a few other professions, engineers have a tendency to specialize in one particular field. This leaves few, if any, general practitioners with wide knowledge bases.

    In my experience, the wider the knowledge base, the better the chance for the existence of that rarefied quality - common sense. I come from a family of myopically-focused, specialized engineers. Somehow I managed to dodge that bullet and have (almost) never regretted taking the other road.

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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Miller View Post
    What concerns me more, at least in Texas, is allowing PEs to do home inspections. At least the GC, which I was for 20 years prior to inspecting, has a boots-on-the-ground perspective of the construction process. Most, if not all, PEs receive no residential training in school. A few that I have met, if not many, suffer from the same ailment as most people in their seeming total lack of common sense. All of that coupled with no code training and no clue as to the effects the process of aging has on a structure and you have a recipe for disaster.
    Right on Aaron. I have worked with PE's who couldn't even design a steel bracket. After the 3rd incomplete drawing I gave up. They have tunnel vision in their own specific disciplines only. Go outside that envelope and they are lost. Architects too.


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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Miller
    Texas law allows any PE to inspect houses without the otherwise required education and licensing. All too often I find that the PE "inspector" is an electrical engineer or electronics engineer, or has spent the last few years designing bowling balls, brassieres, or video games. One need merely visit the site of the Board of Engineers to discover what field their degree is in.

    Of course, in Texas, what with absolutely no home builder or contractor oversight, perhaps it is apropos. Why would one need a full-blown structural engineer to critique an unlicensed, uninsured, uneducated, unbonded builder wannabe who builds shacks d.b.a. houses?
    Allowing P.E.'s to conduct home inpsections ABSOLUTELY makes sense to me. They have a wealth of educational and technical experience. Additionally the examine for a PE license is no "simple test" that home inspectors take to qualify.

    Does one think that a licensed home inspector has the enough background or ammunition with the "otherwise required education and licensing".

    Having said that, just because a person with a PE or a person with a HI license is allowed to inspect a property, it doesn't make them a good inspector. It's a combination of education, experience and personal skills that make for a good inspector.

    The license only allows one to conduct the business of home inspections. Having a PE license is a good reason to ALLOW someone to conduct the business of inspections. Weather they are good or not is something else.

    If you are good at what you do, you will benefit from good referals and a growing business. If you are not good at what you do - word gets out and you will be liable for your actions.

    I believe that a person with a PE licesne should be given the opportunity to conduct the HI business and to proove themselves. They earned the right.

    Ken Amelin
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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Amelin View Post
    I believe that a person with a PE licesne should be given the opportunity to conduct the HI business and to proove themselves. They earned the right.
    Proove it to us. Let's see your licensne

    Texas Inspector
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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Miller
    Proove it to us. Let's see your licensne
    Unfortunately, I only have a HI license. I wish I had my PE license.

    But really, Just think about this.

    As home inspectors, we defer our "unlicensed" opinions and recommendations to PE's on a regular basis, because they are licensed to provide those opinions.

    It only makes sense to allow them to practice a "lower tier" business.

    It doesn't make them better than you.

    Ken Amelin
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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Amelin View Post
    Unfortunately, I only have a HI license. I wish I had my PE license.

    But really, Just think about this.

    As home inspectors, we defer our "unlicensed" opinions and recommendations to PE's on a regular basis, because they are licensed to provide those opinions.

    It only makes sense to allow them to practice a "lower tier" business.

    It doesn't make them better than you.

    But Ken, You defer to PE's on occasions. But they are specific questions that are referred to those that practice and are knowledgeable in that specific discipline.

    Not all PE's do everything. Typically they keep track of the rules, codes, and other restrictions in their area of expertise only. A HI needs to have knowledge in all arenas up to the need to call in a specialist for the issue in question.

    I personally, would trust a PE on structural comments, but not other areas unless he could demonstrate experience and continuing education in those areas too. These are my comments from experience. Sorry PE's....


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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    I have done a dozen inspections over the years for PEs and GCs that were buying a home. All have said that they were glad that they hired me. One was walking behind me with a note pad. At the end of the inspection, he informed me that he was a PE and that he had caught almost every defect that I had.

    Even though PEs can be very familiar with home construction and features, they simply don't examine every element of a house everyday the way that we do. Ditto, for GCs who likely are very knowledgeable.

    I constantly tell people that one of the nice things about my line of work is that I no longer have to figure out the best way to fix something. I only have to point it out as being wrong or broken.........


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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    Quote Originally Posted by Lon Henderson View Post
    Even though PEs can be very familiar with home construction and features, they simply don't examine every element of a house everyday the way that we do. Ditto, for GCs who likely are very knowledgeable.
    While I was reading your comment I thought of something. A PE/GC generally is involved in new construction... they rarely see the ramifications of some of their decisions that usually happen a few years down the road. HI's have have this history, and can call upon their experience to comment knowledgeably on a situation.


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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    As when referencing any given trade, the above comments on PEs are not all inclusive.

    The same can be said about contractors - there are good ones who are knowledgeable and well rounded (typically they have specialized in remodeling/renovation/alteration) and there are good one who are knowledgeable but not well rounded in that knowledge, and, there are bad one.

    The same can be said about code inspectors, doctors, lawyers, and ... yes ... and home inspectors.

    When I was inspecting in South Florida, one of my friends and compatriot home inspectors was a PE, a structural PE. I met him shortly after I started in home inspections and was attending a FABI chapter meeting, as we were sitting at the table eating dinner at the meeting we began talking about things we'd seen. After talking a while he asked if I had inspected at house in Boca Raton, in some development, on such and such street - I thought for a while and said that sounds familiar. He asked me about some trusses in the attic and I said something like 'Oh, yeah, I remember, there was blah, blah, blah.' He said 'I was wondering if I would ever meet the home inspector who found that stuff and called for a structural engineer - not only for the repairs you pointed out which were needed, but also for the improperly designed trusses you had questioned. They were indeed incorrectly designed.'

    Yes, he was a PE and a home inspector. And he was VERY GOOD AT BOTH.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    Quote Originally Posted by BridgeMan View Post
    I'm a P.E. (civil) with a background in concrete, steel and timber construction. Guess that qualifies me for being "a joke" by you HI's.

    Oh, and I've built a few garages and major home additions, poured more concrete than I can count, laid brick and block, framed a few complex roof additions, plumbed and wired more than I care to think about, welded structural steel, etc.

    Hope I graduate from the "joke" category before I leave this planet! For sure, the clock is ticking.

    And I even know the difference between "their" and "they're."
    No, being a PE is not a joke; it is a great professional accomplishment.

    What is your engineering discipline?

    If it is mechanical engineering or civil and you are a PE I would say that you would be qualified to offer opinions in residential light construction as long as those opines are in your related field.

    Now if it is bio-medical, agricultural, hydro, etc, etc... I would say that you are not qualified to offer opinions in residential construction. Unless it relates to a problem or design in your field.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    I am an architect, Gc and home inspector and offer my services are 3 rolled in one. I find that my architectural and construction knowledge makes me a better inspector, and my experience of inspecting sharpens my architectural and construction skills. I'd acknowledge that for shear knowledge of buildings components and how they SHOULD come together, or not, you cannot beat an inspector. Inspecting knowledge and price being equal however, I'd always pick an inspector/GC/PE/A over an inspector solely, as I would pick a dentist/dental surgeon over a dentist solely, and an english/French/Latin translator over an English/french translator.


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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    Quote Originally Posted by lim ace View Post
    I am an architect, Gc and home inspector and offer my services are 3 rolled in one. I find that my architectural and construction knowledge makes me a better inspector, and my experience of inspecting sharpens my architectural and construction skills. I'd acknowledge that for shear knowledge of buildings components and how they SHOULD come together, or not, you cannot beat an inspector. Inspecting knowledge and price being equal however, I'd always pick an inspector/GC/PE/A over an inspector solely, as I would pick a dentist/dental surgeon over a dentist solely, and an english/French/Latin translator over an English/french translator.
    Why not post your real name. Most of us who want to be taken seriously do not hide under pseudo names, we use our real names.

    I have a Limace that I found in a field. It is a scrapping tool that was made a few thousand years ago by our one of our native Americans.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
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    Wink Re: GC doing home inspection

    Way to welcome a first time poster, Scott. Don't worry, I have nothing to hide. My real name would not ad anything to my post, other than giving online entities more access to my personal information, which always results in more unwanted solicitations from other companies. My real name is actually Jerry Peck, but since there was already THE Jerry Peck, I just went with my alter ego, Lim Ace.


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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    Quote Originally Posted by lim ace View Post
    I'd always pick an inspector/GC/PE/A over an inspector solely, as I would pick a dentist/dental surgeon over a dentist solely, and an english/French/Latin translator over an English/french translator.
    Only an engineer could so loosely construe logic. Whatever your real name is, it is likely an white-bred [sic] American name, from whence come the least educated of all of the world's engineers.

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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    What is the hate on P.E.s and registered Architects?
    I don’t know what the process is to become a registered Architect, but for a Professional Engineers, first, you must go through an accredited Engineering program, then, take and pass the Fundamentals of Engineering test, then, complete four-years of engineering experience and then, take and pass the Professional Engineers (PE) exam.
    Yes, this makes you book smart and able to function in the engineering profession, but I agree, that it does make you immediately quailed to perform home inspections.
    Most P.E. are either Civil, Mechanical, Environmental, Industrial or Electrical. I really doubt that someone would go from Agriculture, Bio Medicine, or Environmental Engineering (Scott Patterson) to home inspections. Besides, if you are an Agriculture Engineer or a Bio Medicinal Engineer having a P.E. would be a waste of your time and provide little value to your profession.
    I am a P.E, and have over 20 years of experience doing commercial due diligence inspections and construction monitoring projects. I've done some home inspections and would not consider doing it for a living. You guys take on too much liability for what sounds like insufficient pay.
    Besides, have you read some of the posts that show up here? It frightens me to think that some of these guys (Home Inspectors) take payment for their “services”.


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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    Thanks Aaron for proving my point. The more diversely educated/ experienced/ skilled one is, the better able they are to ad to any situation. I do not know what your background is, but had you been a holder of a master's in English , linguistics, literature, or Greek logic, on top of being an inspector, your understanding of language and logic would have qualified you to not only understanding my point, but also to comment on it adequately.
    My point is that a dentist who is also qualified to offer dental surgery (whether he actually does practice dental surgery or not is another issue) would be better qualified to address the gravity of dental issues than a regular dentist. Also, a translator who knows latin would also know the roots of most english and french words and would thus offer better translation than one who does not.
    I am neither white-bred (actually there is absolutely nothing white about me other than teeth and eyes) and am not an engineer. I am an architect and general building contractor. I do agree with you however about foreign engineers being well educated.


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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    @ Lim Ace

    Where I am from an architect must be an engineer. Therefore I just assumed that you were of that tribe. My honest mistake. Maybe in Lim Aceland architects can just hang out a shingle and start drawing pictures and a salary.

    The white-bred comment was not aimed at your race, which I trust shall remain unknown, but rather at the schools in this country which tend to be, with very few exceptions, just that - white-bred, and underachieving.

    BTW: I agree with Scott. Maybe you should man up and show your name and location or find another place to lurk and shred logic. Or not. It matters little to me. The ignore list on this forum, as far as I know, has no limits.

    Last edited by Aaron Miller; 08-24-2012 at 11:43 AM. Reason: Typo
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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    Where is it that an architect must also be an engineer? I know that Texas is another place altogether but not to that extreme!
    Either way, I appreciate greatly you letting me keep my Lim ace, outside of Lim Aceland. Thank you.
    Respectfully,
    Lim Ace the First, king of Lim Aceland.


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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    Do not be to hard on Lim Ace. It took him 2 years to come back and make a posting.

    lim ace or limace? Did you obtain your Art. Lic yet?

    Were you able to instal your water heater? Or did you sub it out ?


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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    Quote Originally Posted by Garry Sorrells View Post
    lim ace or limace?
    However it is, it fit right nicely into my ignore list. Adiós lim!

    Last edited by Aaron Miller; 08-24-2012 at 12:05 PM. Reason: Self-policing . . .
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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    Hi Gary
    Yes, i did, and yes, I did. Interestingly enough, I am about to move the water heater again as I am building above the area where it was tucked in. The forum was of a great help when I asked for advice during that process, but then as for now, some grumpy lad always made it a point to give me a hard time.
    Please don't put me in the ignore list, Aaron, everything but the ignore list! How can I live the rest of my life in your ignore list?


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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Choffin View Post
    What is the hate on P.E.s and registered Architects?
    I don’t know what the process is to become a registered Architect, but for a Professional Engineers, first, you must go through an accredited Engineering program, then, take and pass the Fundamentals of Engineering test, then, complete four-years of engineering experience and then, take and pass the Professional Engineers (PE) exam.
    Yes, this makes you book smart and able to function in the engineering profession, but I agree, that it does make you immediately quailed to perform home inspections.
    Most P.E. are either Civil, Mechanical, Environmental, Industrial or Electrical. I really doubt that someone would go from Agriculture, Bio Medicine, or Environmental Engineering (Scott Patterson) to home inspections. Besides, if you are an Agriculture Engineer or a Bio Medicinal Engineer having a P.E. would be a waste of your time and provide little value to your profession.
    I am a P.E, and have over 20 years of experience doing commercial due diligence inspections and construction monitoring projects. I've done some home inspections and would not consider doing it for a living. You guys take on too much liability for what sounds like insufficient pay.
    Besides, have you read some of the posts that show up here? It frightens me to think that some of these guys (Home Inspectors) take payment for their “services”.

    Mike,
    From being on industrial sites and watching the Architect forcing changes (the color wasn't the right shade---it was tan, but one shade darker), on contractors that had to build scaffolding over escalators to get to the equipment (on a 30' ceiling where you couldn't see the difference anyway), remove it, paint it, and replace it (much money wasted here $$$)---or design rooms that were half in the sun and half out without doing a 365 solar study and/or providing individual HVAC units, as examples---you would understand the "hate" (hate is not the correct word here) some people have towards Architect's.

    I don't see the same "hate" (ditto) towards PE's here, only observations that if they wish to do HI work they should be certified and trained in that field, and not just rest on their PE laurels.

    It's like the ads that are running on TV now... you wouldn't want your Doctor performing in a symphony replacing you--so don't try to do what the Doctor does concerning your health!!!

    Nothing contained here represents any discouraging remarks to the professions of Architect's or PE's.



  37. #37
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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    GCs doing home inspections ...

    Let's see now ... ummmm ... I am a GC ... I started doing home inspections ... ummmm ... guess I should not have started doing home inspections?

    I will agree, though, that when I started doing home inspections I was shocked - shocked, that what I had been taught to do and was doing resulted in things not being done correctly and not lasting as they should - I was not inspecting the homes I constructed, but other homes constructed similarly as that was how we did it back then.

    I will also say this, and say it loud and clear: CONTRACTORS, CODE INSPECTORS, yeah, and probably architects and structural engineers too, SHOULD BE REQUIRED TO *APPRENTICE* WITH A HOME INSPECTOR FOR AT LEAST ONE YEAR (and maybe even 5 years) BEFORE BEING ALLOWED TO BECOME THAT contractor, code inspector, architect, structural engineer, BECAUSE THEY WILL SEE WHAT WORKS AND WHAT *DOES NOT* WORK, and maybe construction will get better as a result.

    Doing the above would certainly be an eye-opener for the participants.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  38. #38
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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Choffin View Post
    What is the hate on P.E.s and registered Architects?
    I don’t know what the process is to become a registered Architect, but for a Professional Engineers, first, you must go through an accredited Engineering program, then, take and pass the Fundamentals of Engineering test, then, complete four-years of engineering experience and then, take and pass the Professional Engineers (PE) exam.
    Yes, this makes you book smart and able to function in the engineering profession, but I agree, that it does make you immediately quailed to perform home inspections.
    Most P.E. are either Civil, Mechanical, Environmental, Industrial or Electrical. I really doubt that someone would go from Agriculture, Bio Medicine, or Environmental Engineering (Scott Patterson) to home inspections. Besides, if you are an Agriculture Engineer or a Bio Medicinal Engineer having a P.E. would be a waste of your time and provide little value to your profession.
    I am a P.E, and have over 20 years of experience doing commercial due diligence inspections and construction monitoring projects. I've done some home inspections and would not consider doing it for a living. You guys take on too much liability for what sounds like insufficient pay.
    Besides, have you read some of the posts that show up here? It frightens me to think that some of these guys (Home Inspectors) take payment for their “services”.
    I do not think the majority of folks have an issue with PE's, but being a PE or an Architect does not make one a home inspector. Very few PE's deal really with residential construction, for most commercial work is their cup of tea.

    As I said, I can see a Mechanical or a Civil engineer moving with ease into home inspections. Electrical, Industrial and the other disciplines are a stretch but with some additional training they could move into home inspections.

    As for Architects, my experience has shown that they cause most of the design problems with the homes and building we see on a day to day basis. The good ones that stay in their profession are doing good work, those that don't are looking for other green fields and for some reason drift towards home inspections....

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    The good ones that stay in their profession are doing good work, those that don't are looking for other green fields and for some reason drift towards home inspections....[/QUOTE]

    Thanks for the assumption, Scott regarding my qualifications as a good architect based on the fact that I don't stay in my field and drifted towards home inspections. The reason why I am a GC and home inspector besides being an architect is simply that I feel that each is simply one facet of the whole, and preferably, one wants to be as well-rounded as one can, while learning as much as one can. Being a home inspector makes me a better GC and architect, and vice versa., and being an inspector has gotten me jobs as GC and architect. I subscribed to this forum because I thought I would learn something, and I do, everyday.
    If I can make a quick $500 as an inspector slash other, while getting my creative juices satisfied as an architect, I say I get the best of both words.
    Which is harder, you tell me, for an architect, Gc or PE to do home inspections of for a home inspector to design and or build a building? Which is harder, to design a building for months, dealing, and clashing with clients, building inspectors, planning department, GCs... or pinpoint the errors in a building in a matter of hours? My wife, who is not a home inspector came along on a inspection, and was able to point out many issues unprompted.
    So, there is great value in what we do, but ask yourself who is the indispensable one among the building professionals?


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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    Quote Originally Posted by lim ace View Post
    The good ones that stay in their profession are doing good work, those that don't are looking for other green fields and for some reason drift towards home inspections....

    Thanks for the assumption, Scott regarding my qualifications as a good architect based on the fact that I don't stay in my field and drifted towards home inspections. The reason why I am a GC and home inspector besides being an architect is simply that I feel that each is simply one facet of the whole, and preferably, one wants to be as well-rounded as one can, while learning as much as one can. Being a home inspector makes me a better GC and architect, and vice versa., and being an inspector has gotten me jobs as GC and architect. I subscribed to this forum because I thought I would learn something, and I do, everyday.
    If I can make a quick $500 as an inspector slash other, while getting my creative juices satisfied as an architect, I say I get the best of both words.
    Which is harder, you tell me, for an architect, Gc or PE to do home inspections of for a home inspector to design and or build a building? Which is harder, to
    design a building for months, dealing, and clashing with clients, building inspectors, planning department, GCs... or pinpoint the errors in a building in a matter of hours? My wife, who is not a home inspector came along on a inspection, and was able to point out many issues unprompted.
    So, there is great value in what we do, but ask yourself who is the indispensable one among the building professionals?
    I do not feel anyone is indispensable, all have their place and all have their unique challenges.

    Last edited by Scott Patterson; 08-25-2012 at 07:34 AM.
    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    I do not feel anyone is indispensable, all have their place and all have their unique challenges.[/QUOTE]
    Agree!


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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    Quote Originally Posted by lim ace View Post
    I do not feel anyone is indispensable, all have their place and all have their unique challenges.
    Agree![/quote]

    You guys are making it hard to understand with all the half quotes!!!! I think, based upon the half quotes, you were patting each ther on the back. N'est-ce pas?


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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Goeken View Post
    Agree!
    You guys are making it hard to understand with all the half quotes!!!! I think, based upon the half quotes, you were patting each ther on the back. N'est-ce pas?[/QUOTE]

    Bless your heart...

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    I was. I have always liked Scott's interventions in this forum, in tone and content.
    By the way, I am already starting to feel the ill effects of being in Aaron's ignore list, my whole life has been gloom and doom since yesterday.


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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    N'est-ce pas?
    Certaines personnes sont plus dispensables que d'autres.

    Texas Inspector
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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Miller View Post
    Certaines personnes sont plus dispensables que d'autres.
    C'est exactement ce que je disais. Au moins Aaron et moi sont sur la meme page. j'espere que je ne suis plus sur la liste ignoree.


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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    Не е ли Google Translate чудесно?
    Isn't google translate wonderful!


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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry McCarthy View Post
    The bigger joke than PEs doing home inspections is architects doing them.
    Jerry's last post on IN

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  49. #49
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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    There was a case I heard about years ago.... I wish I could remember more specifics. Basically, it was a PE who thought he could breeze through a home inspection for a friend of a friend. In a nutshell he totally blew it.... missed all kinds of bug damage, water intrusion and mechanical things (he was a structural PE).

    I studied Civil Engineering (3 years - no degree) and my bus. partner has a Civil Eng. degree. We often talk about the differences in the PE vs. HI fields. Sure, the PE is a great start but there is a A LOT more to it than calculating beam loads and truss member stress.

    Any PE getting his panties in a wad over the topic should understand no one is knocking you. Heck, I wish I had not taken one term (turned into the rest of my life) off and had got the degree. It's just that engineering and inspecting homes are two different fields. The basic skills and problem solving in getting the degree are a great start. One could argue it's the best START. But, it's just that.... a start.


  50. #50
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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    GCs doing home inspections ...

    Let's see now ... ummmm ... I am a GC ... I started doing home inspections ... ummmm ... guess I should not have started doing home inspections?

    I will agree, though, that when I started doing home inspections I was shocked - shocked, that what I had been taught to do and was doing resulted in things not being done correctly and not lasting as they should - I was not inspecting the homes I constructed, but other homes constructed similarly as that was how we did it back then.

    I will also say this, and say it loud and clear: CONTRACTORS, CODE INSPECTORS, yeah, and probably architects and structural engineers too, SHOULD BE REQUIRED TO *APPRENTICE* WITH A HOME INSPECTOR FOR AT LEAST ONE YEAR (and maybe even 5 years) BEFORE BEING ALLOWED TO BECOME THAT contractor, code inspector, architect, structural engineer, BECAUSE THEY WILL SEE WHAT WORKS AND WHAT *DOES NOT* WORK, and maybe construction will get better as a result.

    Doing the above would certainly be an eye-opener for the participants.
    I agree. Hello all. I started this whole topic. Look, I don't are if you are a dentist. Just get the training and the apprenticeship that will make you a truly qualified inspector. On the same token, would you go to a pediatrist to have a colon exam? Well maybe if you got your foot up your ass. Just get the training!!!


  51. #51
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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    Just get the training and the apprenticeship that will make you a truly qualified inspector.
    And what about construction experience? All of the training and apprenticing in the world will not fill the void caused by a lack of a fundamental understanding of the building trades. Nothing, and I repeat nothing, takes the place of hands-on construction experience. If you don't have it you don't belong in this profession.

    Without it you are just another rubber-stamped, out-of-a-crackerjack-box, roboinspector involved in on-the-job training, all the while taking your customers' money under false pretenses.

    Texas Inspector
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    What the plainspoken man lacks in subtlety, he makes up in clarity.

  52. #52
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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    I certainly think that the best inspectors come from the trades. But a good apprenticeship can do the same thing. I came from the trades and was fortunate enough to have worked with turn-key companies. I have done everything except lay brick. When a bad case of tendinitis forced me out of construction into real estate, I accompanied home inspectors on hundreds of my client's inspections.

    Colorado still doesn't have any licensing for home inspectors. Years ago, I helped a Realtor board president write some legislation to create licensing. The legislation turned it down, saying that they simply didn't see public complaining about home inspections. I guess that something good about our business at the time, but the times, they are a changing.

    Home inspection is becoming the masculine equivalent of massage therapy. (I know there are a few women in this biz, but surly no one will dispute that it is a male dominated business) With schools spewing "home inspectors" out, the average level of competence is plummeting. More and more, I have agents calling me to ask about an inspection report that they just received on their listing. These wannabees or newbees say and do some pretty nutty things. Based on some of the things that I have read here and heard from friends in other states, even states with licensing and rigid SoPs, there can have some lousy inspectors.

    I was at a Remax office meeting where a franchise inspector was giving a presentation. I was sitting on the last row in the meeting. No kidding, six times this guy said something that caused half the agents to turn around in their seats and look at me for confirmation that this guy had just said something wrong. And he had.

    Colorado created an apprenticeship requirement for appraisers years ago. It is a pain in the rear for anyone trying to become an appraiser, but today, every appraiser here has a lot of experience. I am not someone who likes a lot of regulation, but in a business where the public can so easily be duped, licensing and regulation makes more sense. I think that apprenticeship should be a requirement. Even with my experience when I started this business, I really don't think I became a great inspector until I had done two hundred inspections on my own.


  53. #53
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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    What I wish would happen, is that ALL Architects, Engineers, etc. (anyone who has the responsibility of designing/inspecting) have the requirement of working hands-on in a trade related to their core industry, such as carpentry, masonry, electrician, etc. PRIOR to being able to qualify for their certification. I fbelieve some of the obviously DUMB things designed would be reduced if a person had a "feel" for what they were asking others to do.


  54. #54
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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Miller View Post
    And what about construction experience? All of the training and apprenticing in the world will not fill the void caused by a lack of a fundamental understanding of the building trades. Nothing, and I repeat nothing, takes the place of hands-on construction experience. If you don't have it you don't belong in this profession.

    Without it you are just another rubber-stamped, out-of-a-crackerjack-box, roboinspector involved in on-the-job training, all the while taking your customers' money under false pretenses.
    Now Aaron, that is rather narrow minded don't you think!

    I did not grow up in the trades and I think I'm a fairly competent inspector. Sure it took me more time, training and work to reach a level that I felt comfortable with my knowledge base. It all depends on the individual.

    If working in the trades would insure a person would be a good home inspector then we would not find so many screwed up things on all of the homes and buildings we inspect. You must admit that if the trades were producing quality individuals we would not be finding half of what we do.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  55. #55
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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Smith View Post
    What I wish would happen, is that ALL Architects, Engineers, etc. (anyone who has the responsibility of designing/inspecting) have the requirement of working hands-on in a trade related to their core industry, such as carpentry, masonry, electrician, etc. PRIOR to being able to qualify for their certification. I fbelieve some of the obviously DUMB things designed would be reduced if a person had a "feel" for what they were asking others to do.
    A PE does have that requirement. I happen to have both a BS and an MS in Civil Engineering, however I am NOT a P.E. I passed my EIT licensing, and I did train in the Engineering design field (to be more accurate, "performing engineering work under the supervision of a licensed engineer") but not for long enough. A job offer (a much better job offer) came along and I took it before I had enough training time to enable me to sit for my license exam. The job I do now carries and engineer title (senior Engineer to be exact) but since what I do does not involve any real design work, I cannot (nor would I try at this point) to sit for my license.

    I also happen to have a background in construction. I have had friends ask me to "look at" houses. While I am more than happy to do so, I also explain to them that I know very little about certain things - HVAC design or insect damage for example. I'll tell them if I see anything wrong, but just because I don't see anything does not mean there is nothing. They need a HI.

    It is all a matter of specilization. When I was doing geotech engineering work, I was quialified to take soil samples, bring them back to the lab, run compaction tests on them, determine their loading capacity, and design a footing. I was not qualified to design the structure on top of that footing, nor would I claim to be.

    -dave


  56. #56
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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    This discussion made me think of something that would be useful for many HI. Not practical for all, due to location, but maybe some. Here is the thread on the upcoming Remodeling Show and Deck Expo being held in Baltimore, MD. October 9,10,11,12.

    Understanding construction materials and installation


  57. #57
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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    Here in California, anyone can be a home inspector. You just have to have enough money to print up some business cards and do a little advertising.


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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    Now Aaron, that is rather narrow minded don't you think!
    @ Scott: Was that a question, or what! [sic]

    Texas Inspector
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  59. #59
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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Smith View Post
    What I wish would happen, is that ALL Architects, Engineers, etc. (anyone who has the responsibility of designing/inspecting) have the requirement of working hands-on in a trade related to their core industry, such as carpentry, masonry, electrician, etc. PRIOR to being able to qualify for their certification. I fbelieve some of the obviously DUMB things designed would be reduced if a person had a "feel" for what they were asking others to do.
    Agreed.

    Texas Inspector
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    What the plainspoken man lacks in subtlety, he makes up in clarity.

  60. #60
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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    Home inspection is becoming the masculine equivalent of massage therapy.
    Huh?

    Texas Inspector
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    What the plainspoken man lacks in subtlety, he makes up in clarity.

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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    I certainly think that the best inspectors come from the trades. But a good apprenticeship can do the same thing.
    @ Lon: That first statement works for me. Not the second. The additional dimension of understanding provided by actually having built a few houses and all which that entails is not something that can be accomplished by all of the mentoring in the inspection field that one can withstand.

    Texas Inspector
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    What the plainspoken man lacks in subtlety, he makes up in clarity.

  62. #62
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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Miller View Post
    @ Lon: That first statement works for me. Not the second. The additional dimension of understanding provided by actually having built a few houses and all which that entails is not something that can be accomplished by all of the mentoring in the inspection field that one can withstand.
    It depends on what you are inspecting, doesn't it? Manufactured homes, modulars, or condos have features a builder of SF residences wouldn't be familiar with.

    A framer doesn't know all there is to know about wiring, plumbing, HVAC, mold, or asbestos. I rarely find framing problems in the original house. That part is usually OK. An electrician would make a better inspector here, or at least someone that knows the electrical code rules. But you don't have to have experience pulling wire to inspect it. You need to know bad when you see it and that comes from inspection experience and a good memory.
    .

    Last edited by John Kogel; 10-05-2012 at 07:27 PM.
    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
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  63. #63
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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Miller View Post
    @ Lon: That first statement works for me. Not the second. The additional dimension of understanding provided by actually having built a few houses and all which that entails is not something that can be accomplished by all of the mentoring in the inspection field that one can withstand.
    I think an apprenticeship can work. For most of us from the trades, we essentially learned that trade by on the job training. A guy or gal, has to like this business. If you like it, then I think you can learn it by on the job training or apprenticeship. I have mentored several guys. A few made good inspectors and a couple moved on to something else when they realized it wasn't for them.


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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    I'm a GC, in two states if it matters...

    The MAZZA INSPECTION GROUP
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    Level III Thermo-picture-taker-er...er

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    Default Re: GC doing home inspection

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc M View Post
    I'm a GC, in two states if it matters...
    And you mention that... because?


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