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  1. #1
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    Default no ceiling insulation-2006 home

    I did an inspection on a 2006 home yesterday..the home was in pristine condition.
    I always turn the a/c on and let it run the whole time that I am there.
    .
    It had a 2013 goodman ac. 3.5 tons..A BRAND NEW SYSTEM! installed last week.
    It was blowing 50F degrees..but the house never got below 85F degrees

    THERE WAS ABSOLUTELY NO CEILING INSULATION!.
    ( I am shocked that the ac company didn't notice this problem since it is mandated that a load calculaon be performed in florida before a new a/c is installed..)...
    This is the 2nd time that I have inspected a newer home without insulation
    A home inspection should have been scheduled before the first owner closed on the house. The electric bill probably contributed to the forclosure..

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: no ceiling insulation-2006 home

    I wonder if that's the reason they replaced the A/C (to the tune of 8K or whatever).

    I ran into this once in a 10 year old home, obviously out of warranty. The homeowner was quite upset. The builder was over the next day having insulation installed. I think he was a bit concerned about possibly being hit with 10 years of utility bills.

    END GLOBAL WHINING

  3. #3
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    Default Re: no ceiling insulation-2006 home

    I have now seen this 4 times in my career. Two new construction inspections and two homes in the 10-20 year range. One of the new construction builders excuse was "well I paid for insulation" (it was a one off home) and then was on the phone to order the insulation. The other was a tract home and the site super's excuse was that it was on the schedule for insulation. I checked with the building department on the first one, curious as how they could give a certificate of occupancy to a home with no ceiling insulation - there response was "if the builder doesn't supply a ladder, we cannot inspect that area." REALLY????


    //Rick

    Rick Bunzel
    WWW.PacCrestInspections.com
    360-588-6956

  4. #4
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    Default Re: no ceiling insulation-2006 home

    I've found it missing 3 or 4 times over the years. The most recent was one where I got into a big debate with the seller about needing an attic access hatch. They swore up and down it wasn't required and there was nothing to see in there. Well, they were right.... there was nothing - as in no insulation.

    Another time I noticed the A/C system was installed about two years after the house was built and I could just imagine the conversation that took place. "Wow this house gets hot..... I guess we better get A/C!".

    In each case it's just funny the sound difference as you're raising the hatch.... and then the big "thunk" when you slide it over and set it down. On a positive note the attic gets a great inspection - all the wiring, framing... it's just all right there to look at


  5. #5
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    Default Re: no ceiling insulation-2006 home

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Fellman View Post
    I've found it missing 3 or 4 times over the years. The most recent was one where I got into a big debate with the seller about needing an attic access hatch. They swore up and down it wasn't required and there was nothing to see in there. Well, they were right.... there was nothing - as in no insulation.

    Another time I noticed the A/C system was installed about two years after the house was built and I could just imagine the conversation that took place. "Wow this house gets hot..... I guess we better get A/C!".

    In each case it's just funny the sound difference as you're raising the hatch.... and then the big "thunk" when you slide it over and set it down. On a positive note the attic gets a great inspection - all the wiring, framing... it's just all right there to look at
    It's absolutely one of the funnest things you can find (with the exception of a big bag of silver certificates), right up there with leaking shower pans!

    END GLOBAL WHINING

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    St. George, UT
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    217

    Default Re: no ceiling insulation-2006 home

    It is more common than you think. Usually this is discovered within the first few months but I am still finding this even after 15 years (I'm also an Insulation contractor so I get a lot of calls to look at insulation only).

    In my area, as I'm sure in most, there really isn't a physical (Code/Municipal) inspection for attic insulation. Someone moving into a home notices if the contractor forgot the toilet but insulation in an attic? Many times we get someone that moves here from CA that has power rates 2 times what we have here and if their power bill is comparable to what they are used to, it doesn't set of to many alarms.

    Another good reason for people to have a home inspection on a Newly Built Home! Three or four months... of a high utility bill, would pay for the inspection. In my area, I'll bet at least 1 out of ten have forgot to call the insulator to blow the attic before they call for the C.O. At least now most of the local municipalities are requiring an Insulation Cert before they get a C.O., and the lack of that paperwork catches the majority of the "forgotten attics"


  7. #7
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    Guelph,Ontario
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    Default Re: no ceiling insulation-2006 home

    In my more than 25 years of inspecting,I have seen missing attic insulation several times in the attic,ever wonder if the local building inspector ever goes in the attic? I am willing to bet,they never do.


  8. #8
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    Default Re: no ceiling insulation-2006 home

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Janssen View Post
    ever wonder if the local building inspector ever goes in the attic? I am willing to bet,they never do.
    Harry,

    Define "ever goes in the attic" ... we get to see the insulation in its naked state (no drywall hiding the insulation) so actually "going into" the attic is not necessary ... unless you are specifically referencing blown/loose fill types. In the case of blown/loose fill types, we have the contractor provide a ladder at the attic opening and look around the attic standing up in the opening.

    And, yes, if a contractor wants to hid the missing insulation they can install the close insulation and not install the far insulation around the corner, down the back side of a sloping ceiling (which should be batt anyway, not blown/loose fill, and that would be visible before the drywall is installed.

    Keep in mind that there are many home inspectors who do not "go into attics" beyond the opening, just like there are many home inspectors who do not "go on roofs" - so it is not just a 'code inspector' thing.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  9. #9
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    Default Re: no ceiling insulation-2006 home

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Harry,

    Define "ever goes in the attic" ... we get to see the insulation in its naked state (no drywall hiding the insulation) so actually "going into" the attic is not necessary ... unless you are specifically referencing blown/loose fill types. In the case of blown/loose fill types, we have the contractor provide a ladder at the attic opening and look around the attic standing up in the opening.

    And, yes, if a contractor wants to hid the missing insulation they can install the close insulation and not install the far insulation around the corner, down the back side of a sloping ceiling (which should be batt anyway, not blown/loose fill, and that would be visible before the drywall is installed.

    Keep in mind that there are many home inspectors who do not "go into attics" beyond the opening, just like there are many home inspectors who do not "go on roofs" - so it is not just a 'code inspector' thing.
    OK, so how does this happen????

    END GLOBAL WHINING

  10. #10
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    FLORIDA
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    Default Re: no ceiling insulation-2006 home

    jerry,
    This house was designed for blown insulation..don't get upset..you would have noticed that there was no insulation..I think that the building inspector trusted the contractor..we are all professionals ..and the building inspector signed off on the house with the agreement that the insulation will be blown in within a few days....Actually the contractor screwed the building inspector..and the insulation dude should get his butt kicked by BOTH OF THEM.


  11. #11
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    Default Re: no ceiling insulation-2006 home

    Quote Originally Posted by Benjamin Thompson View Post
    OK, so how does this happen????
    ????

    How does what happen? Missing insulation or ????

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by CHRIS KRUSE View Post
    jerry,
    This house was designed for blown insulation..don't get upset..you would have noticed that there was no insulation..I think that the building inspector trusted the contractor..we are all professionals ..and the building inspector signed off on the house with the agreement that the insulation will be blown in within a few days....Actually the contractor screwed the building inspector..and the insulation dude should get his butt kicked by BOTH OF THEM.
    I've found some of those too - batt insulation where it should have been and ... nothing where the blown/loose fill should have been, guess the insulation contractor "forgot" to come back and blow in the insulation.

    With code inspections, one simply cannot find everything (although that much missing insulation does not fall into this category), and the inspector learns which contractors can be trusted to follow-up with what they say they will correct/do that was not done/done incorrectly ... catch the contractor "forgetting" what they promised to do *ONCE* and that contractor is on the '$hit Li$t' and will not be trusted again, at least not for a long time.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  12. #12
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    Default Re: no ceiling insulation-2006 home

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    ????

    How does what happen? Missing insulation or ????

    - - - Updated - - -



    I've found some of those too - batt insulation where it should have been and ... nothing where the blown/loose fill should have been, guess the insulation contractor "forgot" to come back and blow in the insulation.

    With code inspections, one simply cannot find everything (although that much missing insulation does not fall into this category), and the inspector learns which contractors can be trusted to follow-up with what they say they will correct/do that was not done/done incorrectly ... catch the contractor "forgetting" what they promised to do *ONCE* and that contractor is on the '$hit Li$t' and will not be trusted again, at least not for a long time.
    Jerry, you are saying it "can't" happen. I am saying I have seen it. One of us is incorrect.

    END GLOBAL WHINING

  13. #13
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    Default Re: no ceiling insulation-2006 home

    Quote Originally Posted by Benjamin Thompson View Post
    Jerry, you are saying it "can't" happen.
    You will need to clue me in on where I've said that???

    You stated "OK, so how does this happen????" without referencing WHAT part of the discussion you were referring to.

    I asked "How does what happen? Missing insulation or ????" trying to figure out what you were referring to.

    Now I find out that you are (apparently) referring to something you made up in your own mind??? You are certainly not referring what I have said.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  14. #14
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    Default Re: no ceiling insulation-2006 home

    "In the case of blown/loose fill types, we have the contractor provide a ladder at the attic opening and look around the attic standing up in the opening."

    So if you are not saying it "can't" happen that it wasn't observed, are you saying the inspector chose to ignore the missing insulation?

    END GLOBAL WHINING

  15. #15
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    Default Re: no ceiling insulation-2006 home

    you two guys are a riot! Hey..so it can't happen..huh. you think thats funny?...huh?..thats funny?....huh?.. thats funny? ..i'll show you what's #$%^$ funny!

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  16. #16
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    Default Re: no ceiling insulation-2006 home

    Quote Originally Posted by Benjamin Thompson View Post
    "In the case of blown/loose fill types, we have the contractor provide a ladder at the attic opening and look around the attic standing up in the opening."

    So if you are not saying it "can't" happen ...
    Huh? I am STILL trying to figure out WHAT you are saying I said "can't happen" - for some reason you are not, will not, address just what it is that I was supposed to have said "can't happen".

    Let's start over at the beginning, okay?

    Who's on first?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  17. #17
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    Default Re: no ceiling insulation-2006 home

    Jerry,I am saying,I doubt the minicipal building inspector ever even looks in the attic to see if it is insulated,in our area all the inspector looks for a tag installed in the opening.
    Most home inspectors at least poke there head into the opening


  18. #18
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    Default Re: no ceiling insulation-2006 home

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Janssen View Post
    Jerry,I am saying,I doubt the minicipal building inspector ever even looks in the attic to see if it is insulated,in our area all the inspector looks for a tag installed in the opening.
    And I am saying that if the attic insulation is anything other than loose fill or cellulose which is installed after the drywall is installed, then the is no need to look in the attic at the insulation because the code inspector *already looked at the insulation from a better viewpoint* (before the drywall was installed)

    I am also saying that I know that some municipal code inspectors *do* look in the attic when the insulation in installed after the drywall was installed, and that those inspectors don't need to bring s ladder as the contractor provides the ladder for them ... if the contractor wants their inspection the contractor *will* provide the ladder.

    Most home inspectors at least poke there head into the opening
    And I said that some home inspector do not even do that.

    Thus - I still don't know what you were referring to about me saying something can't happen.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

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