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  1. #1
    Rob Pakula's Avatar
    Rob Pakula Guest

    Cool Could MIKE HOLMES miss P trap & vent so easely?

    MIke Holmes -contractor Robinhood- lost his head (or did he? is there any other explanation maybe in Canada they do this different way) on one of his show teaching young hot chick home improvement skills under the sink but he should be fully excused .Who would think about p-trap and vent at this time. I have full video .unfortunately can not post it here.I will be glad to email whole clip if you want to see it.
    Robik1@sbcglobal.net

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  2. #2
    Nolan Kienitz's Avatar
    Nolan Kienitz Guest

    Default Re: Could MIKE HOLMES miss P trap & vent so easely?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Pakula View Post
    MIke Holmes -contractor Robinhood- lost his head (or did he? is there any other explanation maybe in Canada they do this different way) on one of his show teaching young hot chick home improvement skills under the sink but he should be fully excused .Who would think about p-trap and vent at this time. I have full video .unfortunately can not post it here.I will be glad to email whole clip if you want to see it.
    Robik1@sbcglobal.net
    The non-entertaining clips ended up on the cutting room floor.




  3. #3
    Michael Farha's Avatar
    Michael Farha Guest

    Default Re: Could MIKE HOLMES miss P trap & vent so easely?

    I watch Holmes all the time & I don't think he would miss it. I don't know about other places, but in Oklahoma City both sinks of a double need their own P trap even if going into the same main.


  4. #4
    Rob Pakula's Avatar
    Rob Pakula Guest

    Default Re: Could MIKE HOLMES miss P trap & vent so easely?

    It is really strange ,he is brilliant with all details.I really like his show.This is not "Trading spaces".He even put a teflon tape in compresion valve in this video clip which is overkill .He is correcting other pals screw up as ussually putting back sink together as it was originally.I can send you a video if you dont believe.Ptrap is requires everywhere as far as i know.sometimes it is hidden in the wall but it is not the case here because the drain is going straight down.It may have any vent one level below but not a ptrap .You can see a cleanup access bihind his knee.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Could MIKE HOLMES miss P trap & vent so easely?

    Sorry to say I have never heard of the guy.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  6. #6
    Rob Pakula's Avatar
    Rob Pakula Guest

    Default Re: Could MIKE HOLMES miss P trap & vent so easely?

    Discovery home channel


  7. #7
    Rob Pakula's Avatar
    Rob Pakula Guest

    Default Re: Could MIKE HOLMES miss P trap & vent so easely?

    I posted this message in wrong section ,sorry .It should be in plumbing forum.
    Let me do this again may there is any international plumber around


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Could MIKE HOLMES miss P trap & vent so easely?

    P-traps are absolutely req'd (up here). I don't believe for a second Mike Holmes would've missed that, also, he usually has a team of various trades experts with him. I'm guessing the trap and vent connection is in the crawlspace (also common) or lower floor ceiling space.


  9. #9
    Rob Pakula's Avatar
    Rob Pakula Guest

    Default Re: Could MIKE HOLMES miss P trap & vent so easely?

    It means that you clean the line with rodder thru ptrap?.Cleanup access is visible behind his knee under the sink.


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Could MIKE HOLMES miss P trap & vent so easily?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Klampfer View Post
    he usually has a team of various trades experts with him.
    Never heard of Mike Holmes either, but ...

    ... who's to say that those experts are not some of the same ones we all go behind?

    How low are those traps below the floor?

    From the 2006 IRC. (underlining is mine)
    - P3201.6 Number of fixtures per trap. Each plumbing fixture shall be separately trapped by a water seal trap. The vertical distance from the fixture outlet to the trap weir shall not exceed 24 inches (610 mm) and the horizontal distance shall not exceed 30 inches (762 mm) measured from the center line of the fixture outlet to the centerline of the inlet of the trap. The height of a clothes washer standpipe above a trap shall conform to Section P2706.2. Fixtures shall not be double trapped.

    If the trap for that sink is below the floor level, I'm guessing it exceeds 24 inches vertically lower than the waster outlet of that sink.

    Just because there is a 'trap below in a crawlspace' does not mean it should be there.

    Also, if there is a trap in a ceiling / floor system, check to see what the trap is serving - for the same reason.


    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Could MIKE HOLMES miss P trap & vent so easily?

    I doubt he would missed. He is pretty "up" on the codes. The name of the show is "Holmes on Homes". I like it because he rips into all of the crappy contractors. On my list of favorites along with "How its Made"!

    Eric Van De Ven Magnum Inspections Inc. (772) 214-9929
    www.magnuminspections.com
    I still get paid to be suspicious when I got nothing to be suspicious about!

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Could MIKE HOLMES miss P trap & vent so easely?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Farha View Post
    I watch Holmes all the time & I don't think he would miss it. I don't know about other places, but in Oklahoma City both sinks of a double need their own P trap even if going into the same main.
    plumbing code allows only one trap per trap arm, if that is what you mean by "main"


  13. #13
    John Allingham's Avatar
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    Default Re: Could MIKE HOLMES miss P trap & vent so easely?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Pakula View Post
    I posted this message in wrong section ,sorry .It should be in plumbing forum.
    Let me do this again may there is any international plumber around
    I live in Mike's area and it's quite common up here for the P-trap to be located just below the floor.


  14. #14
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    Default Re: Could MIKE HOLMES miss P trap & vent so easely?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Allingham View Post
    I live in Mike's area and it's quite common up here for the P-trap to be located just below the floor.
    From my post above.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    How low are those traps below the floor?

    From the 2006 IRC. (underlining is mine)
    - P3201.6 Number of fixtures per trap. Each plumbing fixture shall be separately trapped by a water seal trap. The vertical distance from the fixture outlet to the trap weir shall not exceed 24 inches (610 mm) and the horizontal distance shall not exceed 30 inches (762 mm) measured from the center line of the fixture outlet to the centerline of the inlet of the trap. The height of a clothes washer standpipe above a trap shall conform to Section P2706.2. Fixtures shall not be double trapped.

    If the trap for that sink is below the floor level, I'm guessing it exceeds 24 inches vertically lower than the waster outlet of that sink.

    Just because there is a 'trap below in a crawlspace' does not mean it should be there.


    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Could MIKE HOLMES miss P trap & vent so easily?

    I was watching the show tonight. They were redoing a garage. I noticed the gas water heater was mounted on the floor and there was no post in front of it.

    There was also a disclaimer at the end of the show that said something to the effect of, "some items have been removed for appearance".

    Eric Van De Ven Magnum Inspections Inc. (772) 214-9929
    www.magnuminspections.com
    I still get paid to be suspicious when I got nothing to be suspicious about!

  16. #16
    Rob Pakula's Avatar
    Rob Pakula Guest

    Default Re: Could MIKE HOLMES miss P trap & vent so easely?

    Was it this particular show? I will try to find the name of the show.
    I sent you this clip,from video you can see everything clear.
    Istill believe that this girl caused this.
    She is too hot to be around construction man .She causes too much distraction.

    Last edited by Rob Pakula; 03-06-2008 at 05:39 AM. Reason: wrong method for quote

  17. #17
    Rob Pakula's Avatar
    Rob Pakula Guest

    Default Re: Could MIKE HOLMES miss P trap & vent so easily?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Never heard of Mike Holmes either, but ...

    ... who's to say that those experts are not some of the same ones we all go behind?

    How low are those traps below the floor?

    From the 2006 IRC. (underlining is mine)
    - P3201.6 Number of fixtures per trap. Each plumbing fixture shall be separately trapped by a water seal trap. The vertical distance from the fixture outlet to the trap weir shall not exceed 24 inches (610 mm) and the horizontal distance shall not exceed 30 inches (762 mm) measured from the center line of the fixture outlet to the centerline of the inlet of the trap. The height of a clothes washer standpipe above a trap shall conform to Section P2706.2. Fixtures shall not be double trapped.

    If the trap for that sink is below the floor level, I'm guessing it exceeds 24 inches vertically lower than the waster outlet of that sink.

    Just because there is a 'trap below in a crawlspace' does not mean it should be there.

    Also, if there is a trap in a ceiling / floor system, check to see what the trap is serving - for the same reason.

    This clear everything.
    How about safe distance between hot girl and working plumber?



  18. #18
    John Allingham's Avatar
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    Default Re: Could MIKE HOLMES miss P trap & vent so easely?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    From my post above.
    From the Ontario Building Code

    7.4.8.2. Length of Fixture Outlet Pipes
    (1) Except for fixture outlet pipes installed in conformance with Sentence 7.4.5.1.(3), the developed length of every fixture
    outlet pipe shall not exceed 1 200 mm.


  19. #19
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    Default Re: Could MIKE HOLMES miss P trap & vent so easily?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Allingham View Post
    From the Ontario Building Code

    7.4.8.2. Length of Fixture Outlet Pipes
    (1) Except for fixture outlet pipes installed in conformance with Sentence 7.4.5.1.(3), the developed length of every fixture
    outlet pipe shall not exceed 1 200 mm.
    1 200 millimeter = 47.244 094 488 inch

    Let's just say 47 inches.

    What is "Except for fixture outlet pipes installed in conformance with Sentence 7.4.5.1.(3),"????

    What is "Fixture Outlet Pipes" (is there a definition for it)?

    Is that the same as "vertical distance to the weir of the trap", or, does "Fixture Outlet Pipes" include a horizontal factor also?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Could MIKE HOLMES miss P trap & vent so easily?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Pakula View Post
    How about safe distance between hot girl and working plumber?
    "arms length"



    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  21. #21
    John Allingham's Avatar
    John Allingham Guest

    Default Re: Could MIKE HOLMES miss P trap & vent so easely?

    Hi Jerry

    Why all the questions about the Ontario Building Code. Are you thinking of relocating . Take my advice and stay in sunny Florida - too frigin cold up here.

    The 47.2.... seems ridiculous but it's from the old days when we did a soft conversion to metric - 48" became 1.2m.

    Here's the code section you were asking about:
    7.4.5. Traps
    7.4.5.1. Traps for Sanitary Drainage Systems
    (1) Except as provided in Sentences (2) and (3) and Article 7.4.5.2., every fixture shall be protected by a separate trap.
    (2) One trap may protect,
    (a) all the trays or compartments of a two or three compartment sink,
    (b) a two or three compartment laundry tray, or
    (c) two similar type single compartment fixtures located in the same room.
    (3) One trap may serve a group of floor drains and hub drains, a group of shower drains, a group of washing machines or
    a group of laboratory sinks if the fixtures,
    (a) are in the same room, and
    (b) are not located where they can receive food or other organic matter.

    Definitions from the code:
    Fixture outlet pipe means a pipe that connects the waste opening of a fixture to the trap serving the fixture.
    Developed length means the length along the centerline of the pipe and fittings.

    Note it's not the vertical distance but in most of the cases I've seen it used, the drain drops straight down.

    Code aside, I'm with you on this one. What if the trap is below the kitchen floor and someone finishes off the basement ceiling - makes it a little difficult to remove the trap or use the clean-out. An access door would have to be provided specifically for this purpose, a pain.


  22. #22
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    Default Re: Could MIKE HOLMES miss P trap & vent so easily?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Allingham View Post
    Why all the questions about the Ontario Building Code. Are you thinking of relocating .
    Nope.

    Take my advice and stay in sunny Florida - too frigin cold up here.
    Agreed. That's why the "Nope." above.

    Just trying to understand what that section was meaning, and, to do so meant knowing what the exception was referring to.

    Seems strange that the Canadian code allows a 48" drop ... except as noted ... which means it can have any length drop in those cases in the exception????

    As I recall (if I recall correctly) dropping too far in that small of a pipe can lead to the waste outrunning the water (or was it vice versa?) to the trap and collecting in the trap before it is washed through the trap, thereby creating a blockage, or hastening a blockage, in that trap.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  23. #23
    Rob Pakula's Avatar
    Rob Pakula Guest

    Default Re: Could MIKE HOLMES miss P trap & vent so easily?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Van De Ven View Post
    I doubt he would missed. He is pretty "up" on the codes. The name of the show is "Holmes on Homes". I like it because he rips into all of the crappy contractors. On my list of favorites along with "How its Made"!

    Holmes may have staged this on purpose.I will not be surprised if he announces one day that major goof was deliberately left on the show.whoever cought this ,he is entitled to the prize.
    I will share it with all of you who are so pationatelly involved here.
    For now I still can send video to see it.There is no doctoring or photoshoping here ,i swear.

    Robik1@sbcglobal.net


  24. #24
    Jim Zborowski's Avatar
    Jim Zborowski Guest

    Default Re: Could MIKE HOLMES miss P trap & vent so easely?

    OK, somebody please send me the clip so I can see what you're talking about.


  25. #25
    Rob Pakula's Avatar
    Rob Pakula Guest

    Default Re: Could MIKE HOLMES miss P trap & vent so easely?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Zborowski View Post
    OK, somebody please send me the clip so I can see what you're talking about.

    I have to send you directly to your email.I dont have it.
    I can not do this thru this site ,It doesnt not have attachement option.
    Sent me email to

    Robik1@sbcglobal.net i will email you back.


  26. #26
    Rob Pakula's Avatar
    Rob Pakula Guest

    Default Re: Could MIKE HOLMES miss P trap & vent so easily?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    "arms length"
    Thats correct.Arm lenght is a bussiness term.It discribes "arm length transaction" that is not between related parties.She doesnt look as his sister or wife.

    Last edited by Rob Pakula; 03-09-2008 at 01:08 PM. Reason: missing item

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