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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    Iowa City, IA
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    Default Wedgcor - Insulation against Metal Roof

    I inspected a commercial Wedgcor building today built in 2005 with a finished showroom and office area (sheetrock walls and ceilings) in Iowa. The balance of the building was unfinished workshop space. Blanket type Fiberglass insulation has been installed tight agains the metal roof (and sidewalls). I found a few seams allowing spot inspection above the insulation and there is definiete moisture/condensation inbetween the insulation and metal roof (30 degrees exterior temp). This looked to be a pretty formal install, but there has been no consideration for ventilation. Like I said, the insulation is directly against the metal roof.



    You can see the white blankets above the red steel framing (which is about 6" of fiberglass with a white vapor type barrier that is visible) and the metal roof is directly incontact with in the insulation above.

    I wanted to get your opinions about potential problems, similar situations and what was done, if this is done regularly with these type of buildings, etc... Is there a potential for long term deterioration of the galvanized metal roof if you are holding moisture against it like that? Possibility of mold growth between insulation and metal? Other thoughts.

    In my opinion it is not right, but I guess and I am trying to figure out HOW WRONG it really is?

    Thanks in advance.

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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Ormond Beach, Florida
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    Default Re: Wedgcor - Insulation against Metal Roof

    Andrew,

    First, welcome to THE inspectors forum.

    Second, it is better to upload the photos as the upload does, with a linked thumbnail. (There are still many who only have dial-up access, plus, it allows the photo to show larger when the thumbnail is clicked on.

    Lastly, ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Kolar View Post
    I wanted to get your opinions about potential problems, similar situations and what was done, if this is done regularly with these type of buildings, etc...
    Yes, it is done regularly. there is no need to ventilate that space (as there is no space).

    Is there a potential for long term deterioration of the galvanized metal roof if you are holding moisture against it like that?
    Yes, but that occurs over time regardless. The metal corrodes, the fasteners corrode, etc.

    Possibility of mold growth between insulation and metal?
    Limited as there is nothing for the mold to grow on (no food source).

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Iowa City, IA
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    94

    Default Re: Wedgcor - Insulation against Metal Roof

    I understand that you can't ventilate that area as there is no space... but shouldn't a space have been left in order to allow ventilation and prevent the condensation?

    Thanks for the reply.


  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Osceola, AR
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    277

    Default Re: Wedgcor - Insulation against Metal Roof

    This is common in this type building, at least it is in my area. I've also seen these done the same in other parts of the country, just don't have a lot to base my observations on in other areas. Both of the Fire Stations in my town (I'm a firefighter also) are built in this manner. 1966 and 1974 build dates on these and they are both holding up pretty well. Condensation hasn't been a major problem in either station. I know of at least 50-60 other buildings constructed like this, don't recall any of these having a problem either.


  5. #5
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    Mar 2007
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    Ormond Beach, Florida
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    Default Re: Wedgcor - Insulation against Metal Roof

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Kolar View Post
    but shouldn't a space have been left in order to allow ventilation and prevent the condensation?
    The longevity of these buildings and roofs is quite long even like that. 'Could' it be done? Sure, but would much be gained? I don't think much would be gained, possibly some, though. Might also be better to spray on foam insulation to prevent the gap in which the condensation is forming.

    I've inspected several of those types of buildings and they all were designed to have the insulation up against the metal roofing.

    From the Butler Buildings web site: ButlerŪ Building Systems

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    Iowa City, IA
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    Default Re: Wedgcor - Insulation against Metal Roof

    I really appreciate the advice/info, however, it looks like one you are both from Southern states, Florida and Arizona. I agree, that design would be great in your area..... but in Iowa or the central mid west when you have COLD winters and crazy temperature differentials, condensations becomes much more of a problem.

    Anyone have any expierence with this issue in areas with COLD winters i.e. 0 degrees and 20 - 35 degree ranges during spring and fall!

    Thanks again!


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Memphis TN.
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    Default Re: Wedgcor - Insulation against Metal Roof

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Kolar View Post
    I really appreciate the advice/info, however, it looks like one you are both from Southern states, Florida and Arizona. I agree, that design would be great in your area..... but in Iowa or the central mid west when you have COLD winters and crazy temperature differentials, condensations becomes much more of a problem.

    Anyone have any expierence with this issue in areas with COLD winters i.e. 0 degrees and 20 - 35 degree ranges during spring and fall!

    Thanks again!
    Andrew,

    Alton is in an Area that had 6 inches of snow Friday and mid 60's today.

    I've seen Xmas days below 0 and low 70's here.

    The Yankee building manufactures install instruction does not have a temperature zone section for different installation instructions.
    Surely them boys know what they are talking about.

    Heck both Alton & JP probably wear shoes regularly----- JP hummm...

    Last edited by Billy Stephens; 03-10-2008 at 08:51 PM. Reason: day to days
    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Osceola, AR
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    277

    Wink Re: Wedgcor - Insulation against Metal Roof

    I made a couple of quick calls after I posted my reply, one was to a builder that erects these type buildings. His reply was that this method was the accepted practice for the manufacturer of the buildings that he uses. He also said that every other manufacturer that he knew of, with the exception of just a couple, used the same practice. The other call went to a buddy who has several equipment rental outlets, each of which use this type building. One of his rental yards is in Montana and he has promised to call the manager there today and ask if this is a problem there. He did have the property inspected at purchase and the inspector didn't mention this being a problem.

    My town actually got closer to 8" of snow on Friday + 25-45 mph winds. Hard to imagine blizzard like conditions in Northeast Arkansas, but my granddaughter & I spent Friday watching the snow and a couple of hours Saturday playing in it. By Sunday morning nearly all evidence of it was gone and it was indeed mid 60s by Monday afternoon.
    Shoes? got a pair, still look brand new, only wear 'em on Sunday, if I have to..........


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Iowa City, IA
    Posts
    94

    Default Re: Wedgcor - Insulation against Metal Roof

    Alton,

    Thank you for the follow up work. It is really nice to see people go out of there way to help/inform others. I mistakenly thought AR was arizona (AZ), whoops!

    I called the Wedgcor manufacturer today and they said that the condensation trapped in between the insulation and the metal is not correct and not acceptable (even though it may be done in this fashion on a regular basis). Over time the moisture will deteriorate the metal roofing, possibly the fasteners, insulation, etc... These building will experiecne two forms of condenstaion, visible, and non visible. The visible condenstation / moisture will likely drip to surfaces below (from seams and or areas it gathers in the insulation), may be more of an annoyance than anthing (other than if it is staining ceilings and such below. The non visible condensation (in between insulation and metal) will do the things mentioned above (deterioration of metal roof, etc.) and IF THE BUILDING has any wooden components/perilings, promote decay and damage in these areas.

    I need to run, but that I would pass along information straight from the manufacturer.


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Ormond Beach, Florida
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    Default Re: Wedgcor - Insulation against Metal Roof

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Kolar View Post
    I called the Wedgcor manufacturer today and they said that the condensation trapped in between the insulation and the metal is not correct and not acceptable (even though it may be done in this fashion on a regular basis). Over time the moisture will deteriorate the metal roofing, possibly the fasteners, insulation, etc... These building will experiecne two forms of condenstaion, visible, and non visible. The visible condenstation / moisture will likely drip to surfaces below (from seams and or areas it gathers in the insulation), may be more of an annoyance than anthing (other than if it is staining ceilings and such below. The non visible condensation (in between insulation and metal) will do the things mentioned above (deterioration of metal roof, etc.) and IF THE BUILDING has any wooden components/perilings, promote decay and damage in these areas.
    "The non visible condensation (in between insulation and metal)"


    Okay, so how do the owners/occupants to see that (without getting up on a ladder)?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Iowa City, IA
    Posts
    94

    Default Re: Wedgcor - Insulation against Metal Roof

    They may not, that is why we do the inspection. But they probably will when it starts dripping on the floor and or sheetrock ceilings below.


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