Thread: New Requirements for Single Family...Sprinkler System

Thanks Rick, arghhhh.......... wrong again.

Perhaps this web site is revelant?
U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission -- Your Home Fire Safety Checklist

Originally Posted by Rick Cantrell

Jerry M
It was Tom Beaudette in Motel 6 commercial.

Actually, his name is Hotel Specials - Hotel Promotions - Hotel Offers .

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

WC Jerry,

Seems Thomas has found a way for those Darwin candidates to be successful in their endeavor to do themselves in, and do their families in - join a religious group whose fire protection ways include a horse drawn hand pumper - like you saw in some of the old westerns ... the next step above a bucket brigade.

You know, I am not going to argue this with you because I feel like I am talking to a brick. However, I do want to share with you what my neighbors said when they dropped in and I gave them a copy of this. Linda, the Amish woman in her late 30's let a tear run down her face, not because of the fact she sees you trying to take their lifestyle away but of the hurtful jokes and stabs you made at the Amish Faith. Her husband John only shook his head and said "we forgive him, he know not what he say" Then Linda went on to say you and your people are much like the Romans of Biblical times. The more I thought about it the more I was puzzled by you Mr. Peck, you are obvousely someone who has a job in the public eye, someone with an edjucaton and although it is mislead, a goal. You have poked fun of a Church several times in this thread, the Amish Church is no different than the Baptist, the Catholic, Morman, ect. Is it acceptable down in Florida to make jokes about people's faith? I did a fast web search and found several help groups for religiouse and racial intollerance, I think you should do the same, some professional counceling on the subject would probably help your thick skull soak up some other information as well. Besides, if you keep running down people's faith you might find yourself out of a job someday Tom

Originally Posted by thomas burdette

The more I thought about it the more I was puzzled by you Mr. Peck, you are obvousely someone who has a job in the public eye, someone with an edjucaton and although it is mislead, a goal.

You are off on all points. I'm jus' an ignorant small town boya who moved ta a bigger city and realized that there is more than just what small towns lead you to believe there is. For some, a small town 'does just fine', for others, 'there is a whole nuther world out there'.

Years ago, while in South Florida, he met a young man at a house I was inspecting, the house was east of US 1 in Hollywood, less than 1.3 miles from the Atlantic Ocean on the east and about 4.5 from I-95 to the west, he had, by his own admission "Never been west of I-95." ... that young man was 21 years old. The world as he knew it existed within that 6 miles east-west from the ocean to I-95. What a shame. What a waste.

You have poked fun of a Church several times in this thread, the Amish Church is no different than the Baptist, the Catholic, Morman, ect. Is it acceptable down in Florida to make jokes about people's faith?

That happens all the time here when someone tries to push their religious beliefs on the others, and, trying to push their beliefs on others is what you are trying to do, all in the name of 'but if you do that, it will put them out of business'. Nope, to the contrary, if the code does that, they will either put themselves out of business or, as they have done for a very long time, continue to deny that modern conveniences exist, including those which save lives.

Besides, if you keep running down people's faith you might find yourself out of a job someday

It's a dirty job, Tom, but somebody has to do it. With all the different peoples bringing up their faith as the one that is the only correct one, and that every one should do it their way, it is simply a job which needs to be done ... pointing out that there are many different faiths and, if you can't handle that, then you are apparently lacking in your faith - just don't try to make it like yours, or theirs, or anyone else's if better than any other faith.

As was recently pointed out here by another, there have been thousands of religions since time began, and there still are thousands of religions, so if you believe in one, yours, to the extent of NOT believing the in the others, then you are 99.9% atheist. You are only 0.1% believer. Have a wonderful night mulling that over.

I think your spinning this again but I don't really care about it anyway, My neighbors have some relation that live in an area that enforces codes and a local lawyer helped them out to get a waiver not to have smoke detectors because of the batterys they use. This excites me, this is a step toward freedom. I am not Amish but I got the funds to bankroll them on this and yip, I will. I don't think you understand much about loss of life, I have been in parts of the world where life is not as good, someone controls your every move like is starting to happen here. Have you ever personally seen a village that was fuel bombed? I have and I fully believe it is better to be dead than bow down to a repressive government. Its sad we got to get waivers to protect ourselves from it. Your questioning my faith? Lost cause buddy, my faith is in my freedom and I will damn sure go broke fighting them in court and shoot myself in the head before I give into your codes! I am not pushing the Amish faith, I do protect their beliefs just as I protect yours, I have been shot at trying to protect yours and that is all I am going to say about this. As far as I am conerned you can jump back up on your soapbox and scream your going to burn to death, I guess that is what makes you a living anyway Have a nice life, I am done fighting with you

Originally Posted by thomas burdette

I think your spinning this again but I don't really care about it anyway,

Yes you do , otherwise you would not keep coming back here with your comments. Also refer to my last response to your last comment in quotes.

My neighbors have some relation that live in an area that enforces codes and a local lawyer helped them out to get a waiver not to have smoke detectors because of the batterys they use. This excites me, this is a step toward freedom.

It excites you to try to find a way to allow people to kill other innocent people? Those stupid people, and that stupid lawyer, have put everyone else in that dwelling at risk.

And that "excites you"?

I am done fighting with you

No you are not, otherwise you would not keep coming back here with your comments.

The system is long overdue...I get what Jerry's saying....simply put - live or die. You don't have to buy a house that has a sprinkler in it...if it's over 2500 sq. ft. deal with it..you know what you're getting into. If you don't want a sprinkler system buy a smaller house...or go stand in the yard and get wet when the lawn sprinkler turns on. This is a no brainer guys...don't bang your head on the wall too much...cool off.

Washington State has called the hand of the ICC and the way the NFPA went about getting these regulations passed during the last code meetings. Check out this letter to the ICC.



Washington Association of
Building Officials
PO Box 7310
Olympia, WA 98507-7310
(360) 586-6725
Toll Free (888) 664-9515
Fax (360) 586-5538
wabo@wabo.org
www.wabo.org

President Joe Wizner
City of Spokane
1st Vice President
Dick Bower, C.B.O.
City of Gig Harbor

2nd Vice President
Cindy Meyer, C.B.O.
City of Vancouver

Past President
Gary L. Schenk, C.B.O.
City of SeaTac

Certification & Registration
Committee Chair
Pete Rambow
City of Tacoma

Technical Code Development
Committee Chair
Jonathan C. Siu, P.E., S.E.
City of Seattle


Government Relations
Committee Chair
Mary Kate Martin C.B.O.
City of Spokane Valley

Outreach Services
Committee Chair
Darrin Graham
City of Westport

Finance Committee Chair
C. Ray Allshouse, AIA, C.B.O.
City of Shoreline

Education Committee Chair
Trace Justice, C.B.O.
Snohomish County

Ex-Officio
John P. Neff, C.B.O.
City of Lacey

Executive Director
Julie Rogers, CAE

Administered By
J Addison Group, LLC
(Olympia, Washington)

October 27,2008

Adolph Zubia, President
International Code Council
500 New Jersey Avenue, NW, 6th Floor
Washington, DC 20001-2070



Dear President Zubia:



On behalf of the members of the Washington Association of Building Officials
(WABO), I am writing to express an issue of grave importance to our members, and I believe of importance to all ICC members. One of the cornerstones of the ICC code
development process, and one which the Washington Association of Building
Officials strongly supports, is the Governmental Consensus Process. The intent of
this process is to ensure those with financial interests in an issue do not unduly
influence the outcome.



With respect to the residential fire sprinkler amendments adopted in Minneapolis last
month, we believe there is evidence that special interests dictated the outcome of the
code changes. These changes will allow the special interests to reap millions, if not
billions, of dollars in profits. In a report prepared for ResidentialFireSprinklers.com,
there are estimates the annual market potential of the residential fire sprinkler code
change at $3 billion per year.



The following allegations call the integrity of the ICC Governmental Consensus
Process into question:



.. Hundreds of members representing fire interests were provided with free
travel, lodging and feted at a reception by the IRC Residential Fire Sprinkler
Coalition.
.. The funding for this was paid for, in large part, by the fire sprinkler industry
and the plumber’s union, with money funneled through the Coalition, both of
which stand to benefit tremendously by the passage of the amendments.
.. The National Association of Home Builders also paid for the travel and
lodging of some members to attend and vote at the hearings.
.. Little, if any, vetting of new members was done by ICC. Some new
governmental members were granted more voting representatives than
allotted to their population under the ICC bylaws, Table 2.1.1.1.
.. Representatives of volunteer fire departments, non-profit corporations that do
not meet the qualifications for governmental membership, were allowed to
vote in violation of the ICC bylaws, Article 2.1.1.1.
.. In at least one case, a consultant was allowed to vote on behalf of a client
emergency services district, even though he is not an employee or official of
the department as required by Article 2.1.1.1.


These allegations, if found to be true, are very troubling because of the threat to the
integrity of the ICC system. With the process of arguing back and forth on safety
issues, code change proposals are “finally put to a vote in what must be the most
transparent and democratic rule-making process in government or industry,”
according to your letter of greetings to our membership. WABO agrees and believes
this process has been compromised.


We, therefore, respectfully request that the ICC Board of Directors take the following actions:



1. Conduct an investigation to determine if industry funded travel of members to the Final Action
Hearings in Minneapolis, thereby having undue influence on the outcome of the hearings.
2. Investigate whether any jurisdiction was allowed more voting representatives than allotted to their
population.
3. Investigate whether members of any nonprofit volunteer fire departments were allowed to vote as
governmental members in violation of ICC bylaws, Article 2.1.1.
4. Investigate the allegations that persons who are neither employees nor officials of governmental
members were allowed to vote, in violation of ICC bylaws, Article 2.1.1.1.
5. Report back to the ICC membership on the outcome of these investigations.
6. Demonstrate support for a true Governmental Consensus Process and that individual code
change proposals are not for sale by recommending changes to the ICC bylaws to correct any
problems uncovered in the investigation.
7. Direct the ICC management and staff to develop procedures to properly vet membership and
voter registrations.
8. Take any other steps necessary to prevent future abuses of the ICC Governmental Consensus
Process.


This investigative process should be conducted by an independent auditing firm, be conducted openly
and transparently, and that all results from the audit be made public and transmitted to the members.
Further, any actions by the Board of Directors regarding this process should also be conducted in open
meetings.



WABO is extremely concerned that the ICC process was violated by special interests, but more
concerned that it could easily happen again. Because of this and from the evidence that we have seen,
we believe that the results of the vote over this issue were not performed per “the ethical responsibilities
that accompany participation.” If the investigation reveals that there were voting irregularities and
ineligible members voting, steps should be taken to nullify these votes on all issues where it is determined
there were procedural discrepancies. As you stated, “The ICC brand is built on the ethical reputation of
our code development process. To ensure its standing into the future, we must continuously renew and
strengthen it.” We couldn’t agree more.



We believe that the integrity of ICC is at stake. WABO is willing to assist in any investigation with
information that supports these allegations and, in turn, be part of a solution to this problem. Swift and
decisive action must be taken to avoid a recurrence in the future.



Thank you for this opportunity to express the opinions of our members.



Sincerely,



Joseph Wizner, President
Washington Association of Building Officials


cc: ICC Board of Directors and ICC Chapters