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  1. #66
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Healdsburg, CA
    Posts
    1,741

    Default Re: New Requirements for Single Family...Sprinkler System

    Thanks Rick, arghhhh.......... wrong again.

    Perhaps this web site is revelant?
    U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission -- Your Home Fire Safety Checklist


    Member Benefits1
    Jerry McCarthy
    Building Code/ Construction Consultant

  2. #67
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,248

    Default Re: New Requirements for Single Family...Sprinkler System

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Cantrell View Post
    Jerry M
    It was Tom Beaudette in Motel 6 commercial.

    Actually, his name is Hotel Specials - Hotel Promotions - Hotel Offers .

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  3. #68
    thomas burdette's Avatar
    thomas burdette Guest

    Default Re: New Requirements for Single Family...Sprinkler System

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    WC Jerry,

    Seems Thomas has found a way for those Darwin candidates to be successful in their endeavor to do themselves in, and do their families in - join a religious group whose fire protection ways include a horse drawn hand pumper - like you saw in some of the old westerns ... the next step above a bucket brigade.
    You know, I am not going to argue this with you because I feel like I am talking to a brick. However, I do want to share with you what my neighbors said when they dropped in and I gave them a copy of this. Linda, the Amish woman in her late 30's let a tear run down her face, not because of the fact she sees you trying to take their lifestyle away but of the hurtful jokes and stabs you made at the Amish Faith. Her husband John only shook his head and said "we forgive him, he know not what he say" Then Linda went on to say you and your people are much like the Romans of Biblical times. The more I thought about it the more I was puzzled by you Mr. Peck, you are obvousely someone who has a job in the public eye, someone with an edjucaton and although it is mislead, a goal. You have poked fun of a Church several times in this thread, the Amish Church is no different than the Baptist, the Catholic, Morman, ect. Is it acceptable down in Florida to make jokes about people's faith? I did a fast web search and found several help groups for religiouse and racial intollerance, I think you should do the same, some professional counceling on the subject would probably help your thick skull soak up some other information as well. Besides, if you keep running down people's faith you might find yourself out of a job someday Tom


  4. #69
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,248

    Default Re: New Requirements for Single Family...Sprinkler System

    Quote Originally Posted by thomas burdette View Post
    The more I thought about it the more I was puzzled by you Mr. Peck, you are obvousely someone who has a job in the public eye, someone with an edjucaton and although it is mislead, a goal.
    You are off on all points. I'm jus' an ignorant small town boya who moved ta a bigger city and realized that there is more than just what small towns lead you to believe there is. For some, a small town 'does just fine', for others, 'there is a whole nuther world out there'.

    Years ago, while in South Florida, he met a young man at a house I was inspecting, the house was east of US 1 in Hollywood, less than 1.3 miles from the Atlantic Ocean on the east and about 4.5 from I-95 to the west, he had, by his own admission "Never been west of I-95." ... that young man was 21 years old. The world as he knew it existed within that 6 miles east-west from the ocean to I-95. What a shame. What a waste.

    You have poked fun of a Church several times in this thread, the Amish Church is no different than the Baptist, the Catholic, Morman, ect. Is it acceptable down in Florida to make jokes about people's faith?
    That happens all the time here when someone tries to push their religious beliefs on the others, and, trying to push their beliefs on others is what you are trying to do, all in the name of 'but if you do that, it will put them out of business'. Nope, to the contrary, if the code does that, they will either put themselves out of business or, as they have done for a very long time, continue to deny that modern conveniences exist, including those which save lives.

    Besides, if you keep running down people's faith you might find yourself out of a job someday
    It's a dirty job, Tom, but somebody has to do it. With all the different peoples bringing up their faith as the one that is the only correct one, and that every one should do it their way, it is simply a job which needs to be done ... pointing out that there are many different faiths and, if you can't handle that, then you are apparently lacking in your faith - just don't try to make it like yours, or theirs, or anyone else's if better than any other faith.

    As was recently pointed out here by another, there have been thousands of religions since time began, and there still are thousands of religions, so if you believe in one, yours, to the extent of NOT believing the in the others, then you are 99.9% atheist. You are only 0.1% believer. Have a wonderful night mulling that over.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  5. #70
    thomas burdette's Avatar
    thomas burdette Guest

    Default Re: New Requirements for Single Family...Sprinkler System

    I think your spinning this again but I don't really care about it anyway, My neighbors have some relation that live in an area that enforces codes and a local lawyer helped them out to get a waiver not to have smoke detectors because of the batterys they use. This excites me, this is a step toward freedom. I am not Amish but I got the funds to bankroll them on this and yip, I will. I don't think you understand much about loss of life, I have been in parts of the world where life is not as good, someone controls your every move like is starting to happen here. Have you ever personally seen a village that was fuel bombed? I have and I fully believe it is better to be dead than bow down to a repressive government. Its sad we got to get waivers to protect ourselves from it. Your questioning my faith? Lost cause buddy, my faith is in my freedom and I will damn sure go broke fighting them in court and shoot myself in the head before I give into your codes! I am not pushing the Amish faith, I do protect their beliefs just as I protect yours, I have been shot at trying to protect yours and that is all I am going to say about this. As far as I am conerned you can jump back up on your soapbox and scream your going to burn to death, I guess that is what makes you a living anyway Have a nice life, I am done fighting with you


  6. #71
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,248

    Default Re: New Requirements for Single Family...Sprinkler System

    Quote Originally Posted by thomas burdette View Post
    I think your spinning this again but I don't really care about it anyway,
    Yes you do , otherwise you would not keep coming back here with your comments. Also refer to my last response to your last comment in quotes.

    My neighbors have some relation that live in an area that enforces codes and a local lawyer helped them out to get a waiver not to have smoke detectors because of the batterys they use. This excites me, this is a step toward freedom.
    It excites you to try to find a way to allow people to kill other innocent people? Those stupid people, and that stupid lawyer, have put everyone else in that dwelling at risk.

    And that "excites you"?

    I am done fighting with you
    No you are not, otherwise you would not keep coming back here with your comments.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  7. #72
    mark ferrell's Avatar
    mark ferrell Guest

    Talking Re: New Requirements for Single Family...Sprinkler System

    The system is long overdue...I get what Jerry's saying....simply put - live or die. You don't have to buy a house that has a sprinkler in it...if it's over 2500 sq. ft. deal with it..you know what you're getting into. If you don't want a sprinkler system buy a smaller house...or go stand in the yard and get wet when the lawn sprinkler turns on. This is a no brainer guys...don't bang your head on the wall too much...cool off.


  8. #73
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    745

    Default Re: New Requirements for Single Family...Sprinkler System

    Washington State has called the hand of the ICC and the way the NFPA went about getting these regulations passed during the last code meetings. Check out this letter to the ICC.



    Washington Association of
    Building Officials
    PO Box 7310
    Olympia, WA 98507-7310
    (360) 586-6725
    Toll Free (888) 664-9515
    Fax (360) 586-5538
    wabo@wabo.org
    www.wabo.org

    President Joe Wizner
    City of Spokane
    1st Vice President
    Dick Bower, C.B.O.
    City of Gig Harbor

    2nd Vice President
    Cindy Meyer, C.B.O.
    City of Vancouver

    Past President
    Gary L. Schenk, C.B.O.
    City of SeaTac

    Certification & Registration
    Committee Chair
    Pete Rambow
    City of Tacoma

    Technical Code Development
    Committee Chair
    Jonathan C. Siu, P.E., S.E.
    City of Seattle


    Government Relations
    Committee Chair
    Mary Kate Martin C.B.O.
    City of Spokane Valley

    Outreach Services
    Committee Chair
    Darrin Graham
    City of Westport

    Finance Committee Chair
    C. Ray Allshouse, AIA, C.B.O.
    City of Shoreline

    Education Committee Chair
    Trace Justice, C.B.O.
    Snohomish County

    Ex-Officio
    John P. Neff, C.B.O.
    City of Lacey

    Executive Director
    Julie Rogers, CAE

    Administered By
    J Addison Group, LLC
    (Olympia, Washington)

    October 27,2008

    Adolph Zubia, President
    International Code Council
    500 New Jersey Avenue, NW, 6th Floor
    Washington, DC 20001-2070



    Dear President Zubia:



    On behalf of the members of the Washington Association of Building Officials
    (WABO), I am writing to express an issue of grave importance to our members, and I believe of importance to all ICC members. One of the cornerstones of the ICC code
    development process, and one which the Washington Association of Building
    Officials strongly supports, is the Governmental Consensus Process. The intent of
    this process is to ensure those with financial interests in an issue do not unduly
    influence the outcome.



    With respect to the residential fire sprinkler amendments adopted in Minneapolis last
    month, we believe there is evidence that special interests dictated the outcome of the
    code changes. These changes will allow the special interests to reap millions, if not
    billions, of dollars in profits. In a report prepared for ResidentialFireSprinklers.com,
    there are estimates the annual market potential of the residential fire sprinkler code
    change at $3 billion per year.



    The following allegations call the integrity of the ICC Governmental Consensus
    Process into question:



    .. Hundreds of members representing fire interests were provided with free
    travel, lodging and feted at a reception by the IRC Residential Fire Sprinkler
    Coalition.
    .. The funding for this was paid for, in large part, by the fire sprinkler industry
    and the plumber’s union, with money funneled through the Coalition, both of
    which stand to benefit tremendously by the passage of the amendments.
    .. The National Association of Home Builders also paid for the travel and
    lodging of some members to attend and vote at the hearings.
    .. Little, if any, vetting of new members was done by ICC. Some new
    governmental members were granted more voting representatives than
    allotted to their population under the ICC bylaws, Table 2.1.1.1.
    .. Representatives of volunteer fire departments, non-profit corporations that do
    not meet the qualifications for governmental membership, were allowed to
    vote in violation of the ICC bylaws, Article 2.1.1.1.
    .. In at least one case, a consultant was allowed to vote on behalf of a client
    emergency services district, even though he is not an employee or official of
    the department as required by Article 2.1.1.1.


    These allegations, if found to be true, are very troubling because of the threat to the
    integrity of the ICC system. With the process of arguing back and forth on safety
    issues, code change proposals are “finally put to a vote in what must be the most
    transparent and democratic rule-making process in government or industry,”
    according to your letter of greetings to our membership. WABO agrees and believes
    this process has been compromised.


    We, therefore, respectfully request that the ICC Board of Directors take the following actions:



    1. Conduct an investigation to determine if industry funded travel of members to the Final Action
    Hearings in Minneapolis, thereby having undue influence on the outcome of the hearings.
    2. Investigate whether any jurisdiction was allowed more voting representatives than allotted to their
    population.
    3. Investigate whether members of any nonprofit volunteer fire departments were allowed to vote as
    governmental members in violation of ICC bylaws, Article 2.1.1.
    4. Investigate the allegations that persons who are neither employees nor officials of governmental
    members were allowed to vote, in violation of ICC bylaws, Article 2.1.1.1.
    5. Report back to the ICC membership on the outcome of these investigations.
    6. Demonstrate support for a true Governmental Consensus Process and that individual code
    change proposals are not for sale by recommending changes to the ICC bylaws to correct any
    problems uncovered in the investigation.
    7. Direct the ICC management and staff to develop procedures to properly vet membership and
    voter registrations.
    8. Take any other steps necessary to prevent future abuses of the ICC Governmental Consensus
    Process.


    This investigative process should be conducted by an independent auditing firm, be conducted openly
    and transparently, and that all results from the audit be made public and transmitted to the members.
    Further, any actions by the Board of Directors regarding this process should also be conducted in open
    meetings.



    WABO is extremely concerned that the ICC process was violated by special interests, but more
    concerned that it could easily happen again. Because of this and from the evidence that we have seen,
    we believe that the results of the vote over this issue were not performed per “the ethical responsibilities
    that accompany participation.” If the investigation reveals that there were voting irregularities and
    ineligible members voting, steps should be taken to nullify these votes on all issues where it is determined
    there were procedural discrepancies. As you stated, “The ICC brand is built on the ethical reputation of
    our code development process. To ensure its standing into the future, we must continuously renew and
    strengthen it.” We couldn’t agree more.



    We believe that the integrity of ICC is at stake. WABO is willing to assist in any investigation with
    information that supports these allegations and, in turn, be part of a solution to this problem. Swift and
    decisive action must be taken to avoid a recurrence in the future.



    Thank you for this opportunity to express the opinions of our members.



    Sincerely,



    Joseph Wizner, President
    Washington Association of Building Officials


    cc: ICC Board of Directors and ICC Chapters



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