This a 1960's home. There was plenty of ventiation in the attic, however, a majority of the attic had this on it? I just wanted to know if this a type of mold?

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ROBERT "JACQUES" MOUNTAIN
DREAM HOME INSPECTIONS
FAYETTEVILLE,GA

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I'm from Alaska, but it looks like mildew growth that we see up here often. The moisture in the wood itself causes the growth and over time the wood dries out and the mildew is left. Framing lumber sitting out all summer can soak up added moisture. Although we usually see this on newer homes, I'm not sure if the mildew would last 40 years on the surface, I guess it's possible. Any new penetrations in the attic? A new bath fan perhaps? Dave

We get it here in Oregon a lot... usually some of the following will be true;

Bath fans vented into the attic rather than out
Soffit vents are blocked, usually by updated amounts of insulation
Worse on the north side

Your picture is very minor compared to what I'm used to seeing but really any is worth mentioning to protect yourself.

Here's a picture of a house I was in this week... this was fairly bad but I've seen a lot worse.

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What is the recommended treatment for this?

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ROBERT "JACQUES" MOUNTAIN
DREAM HOME INSPECTIONS
FAYETTEVILLE,GA

None.

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"If con is the opposite of pro, is Congress the opposite of progress?"
Richard Rushing, HCRI
Duncanville, Tx.

How would you write it up in a report?

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ROBERT "JACQUES" MOUNTAIN
DREAM HOME INSPECTIONS
FAYETTEVILLE,GA

Logical World - Cut down on sources of moisture, increase ventilation, when the roof is replaced assess the plywood for damage and replace as needed.

World we live in with blood sucking attorneys trying take food off our table - Same first two + further evaluation from a mold remediation specialist. Super extreme cases the mold guys will call for total removal, mid-range they'll call for sanding, minor they'll just call for bleach washing.

There was an instance I was involved in that defied all logic... House was about 15 years old. The 3-tab roof was totally shot and needed to be replaced. The soffit vents had been completely cut-off since day 1 and the bath fans had fallen many years before and were venting 6 people's showers worth of steam into the attic each day.

Now, any logical person would just tear off the roof, re-deck the roof, hook-up the bath fans, unblock the soffit vents and live happily ever after, right? Nope, the mold people scared this poor guy into sinking 6K into remediation which included sanding, triple bagging and properly disposing of the shavings. The entire roof and decking could have been done for less than that. Problem is nobody (myself, real estate agents, sellers, etc) is going to tell someone to go against what the mold people say. So, now the guy is left with a 15 year old roof with ultra thin sheathing and an empty wallet.

It's like when someone asks me about lead paint or asbestos.... do they really expect me to tell them not to worry about it. I can just hear it now as I'm sitting on the stand.... "Let me get this straight, you told my clients not to worry about the lead paint that eventually poisened their 4 children?"

Sorry to be so longwinded... I hope somewhere in there I helped out with your question.

Mold is the hot button for people and I would be hesitate to ignore it. When the media reports on a mold story they pick a doozy, worst case situation and this is what people remember when you say mold. If you suspect mold in a large area recommend a qualified indoor environmentalist come in and determine course of action, this is not for a home inspector to specify.

In essence, it seems necessary for us to over-react a bit because that's what clients and their attorneys do with this issue. Perhaps when the concern for mold dies down to more reasonable levels we can all get on with life.

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Eric Barker
Moraine Woods Consulting, Inc.
Barrington, IL

Give the customer the information from an unbiased source and let them make the call.
I like to quote and provide the EPA document on the subject.

Quote:

Is sampling for mold
needed? In most cases, if visible
mold growth is present, sampling
is unnecessary. Since no EPA or
other federal limits have been set
for mold or mold spores, sampling
cannot be used to check a
building’s compliance with federal
mold standards. Surface sampling
may be useful to determine if an
area has been adequately cleaned or remediated. Sampling
for mold should be conducted by professionals who have
specific experience in designing mold sampling protocols,
sampling methods, and interpreting results. Sample
analysis should follow analytical methods recommended by
the American Industrial Hygiene Association (AIHA), the
American Conference of Governmental Industrial Hygienists
(ACGIH), or other professional organizations.

http://www.epa.gov/mold/pdfs/moldguide.pdf

Keep in mind, testing and remidiation are two different animals.

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Jim Luttrall
Mr. Inspector.net, Inc.
Allen, Texas 75002

Until it is sampled & lab analyzed it is "a mold like substance" CYA.

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Chip
Destin,Fl
"The only non-addressable objection is the unkown"

I can't remember the names of the involved but at a cont. ed conference the exact subject of saying 'mold like' vs 'mold' came up and to a jury in a large case there was no difference. Basically, saying the 'm' word, no matter how you say it, is enough to get you in trouble.

I call it a 'discoloration' for lack of a better term. There's really no perfect answer.... until we can fire up the time machine and go back and 'un-say' or 'un-write' what turns out to get us in trouble.

I think like most things in this biz, the chances are remote but it does happen to someone eventually.

Call it what it is! It is Mold or a fungal growth. To call it anything else would be soft selling the client on what you really found. You know it is mold so call it as such.

Next! Why in the world do you want to test it and find out what type of mold it is? What will this tell you as the home inspector and then what is it going to tell your client? It will tell them what you already know; they have mold on the wood in the attic. Give them the EPA information and let them decide what needs to be done. Unless you have training in remediation and can write an abatement plan that a contractor can use to clean up the mold then you need to say nothing more to your client.

Mold needs moisture to survive and thrive. So we know that the attic most likely has had high moisture in it at some time. Has that problem been corrected? Spend you time and energy on finding out the cause of the moisture not trying to sell mold testing! Sorry, selling mold testing is a Hot Button for me.

Please tell me how you are going to get into trouble by saying that you found Mold? I do not know of any home inspector in the country who has been sued for saying they he/she found mold. Does anyone have a case that they can cite that shows this? Think about who is purporting this information! It is being done by the testing labs, like the infamous Pro-Lab.

If you are not sure that it was mold, then say that you found what looks like Mold or a fungus growth but that you are not sure. Then stop writing or saying anything. Let your client decide what the next step is.

I must say that any home inspector who can't tell if he/she found mold needs to be working back at Burger King or wherever they were before they had their business cards printed up. It is not Rocket Science!

Off Soap Box and a charter member of DDMG

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Scott Patterson
Spring Hill, TN
http://www.traceinspections.com

I second Scott's post. Well said.

Would a home inspector say 'asphalt-like material on roof'? No, of course not. They would say 'asphalt composition shingles', now, whether or not those shingles are 'fiberglass mat' or 'organic felt mat' - that's a different question.

It's "mold", but as to 'what kind of mold' - that's a different question.

Also a charter member of the DDM group.

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Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
EastWestData (www.EastWestData.com )

I think that the concern arises when a H.I.'s contract disclaims mold then the report comments on mold's presence. Certainly it presents a conflict in the inspector's approach and monkeys up our jobs.

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Eric Barker
Moraine Woods Consulting, Inc.
Barrington, IL

Scott, very well said!

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Charles Buell

No difference than disclaiming you don't do structural engineering on the structure and then commenting on trusses, rafters, foundation walls, etc.

Or (to reverse the scenario) to call the home inspection and report "comprehensive" then disclaim everything that you don't do and that is not "visible" because it is now a "visual" inspection ... "visual inspection" does not equal "comprehensive inspection".

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Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
EastWestData (www.EastWestData.com )

Robert asked:
"What is the recommended treatment for this?"


Detect- Describe-Report. As Scott said, tell the client what you found/ saw during your inspection. I would not provide advice on any recommendations for treatment.

Scott hit the nail on the head by advising that you concentrate on the source of moisture/leak/ condensation/ etc...-- that's the bigger issue.

Richard

__________________
"If con is the opposite of pro, is Congress the opposite of progress?"
Richard Rushing, HCRI
Duncanville, Tx.

Jerry,

I gotta agree with you. Where is the line drawn? We seem to be constantly exposed to the "dangers" of the courtroom through cont. ed. seminars and taught how to avoid such encounters. And as I said before, it makes for a more difficult job.

I get to the point where I want to say the hell with some instilled fear and just want to do my job as best as I can without worrying about some (imposed?) liability hanging over me. I don't have an answer for the issue and I don't see it going away.

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Eric Barker
Moraine Woods Consulting, Inc.
Barrington, IL

Eric,

To me, it the same as saying we (HIs) do not do 'safety inspections' then write up unsafe items, or, saying we do not do 'code inspections' then write up code items.

Heck, we might was well say 'This non-inspection is $xxx, please write the check and I will do as agreed in the contract - I will not look at anything ... Thank you and Have a nice day.'

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Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
EastWestData (www.EastWestData.com )

I have spoken with some Environmental companies and they all said the same thing, "Why bother testing for mold? Decide if you want it cleaned up, but deal with the real problem of moisture." It's the same thing for us reporting on damage to the home from