zinsco breaker box - InspectionNews

wayne williams · #1 (**permalink**) 06-05-2008, 09:31 PM

I just inspected a home with a zinsco breaker box, the receptacles in the home had been replaced with three prong, with some old two prong still in service. this was original wiring from the pre electrical age i think. i wont go in to the long list of electrical problems on this home, just wondering do many inspectors run in to this kind of stuff often? how about some feedback on this. thanks for the information

Brandon Chew · #2 (**permalink**) 06-06-2008, 07:01 AM

The majority of the homes in this area are more than 50 years old. I frequently see outdated and cobbed together electrical systems.

CHARLIE VAN FLEET · #3 (**permalink**) 06-06-2008, 07:35 AM

brandon
i run into these boxes as well as the infamous fpe--federal pac-----if they just replaced the two prongs with three prongs and there isn't a ground that is wrong and not code----three prongs need to be grounded or have gfci outlets installed--or ground plate behind outlet----i write up the zinsco box and send cliet to web site to read about the danger--and of course--recommend licenced electrician evaluate

see attached
google the zinsco breaker box
charlie

Nolan Kienitz · #4 (**permalink**) 06-06-2008, 07:41 AM

All the time. Just depends upon the age of the home.

I'm certain you made note of everything including the Zinsco panel so the client is aware of the 'potential' that is facing them.

Jeff Spencer · #5 (**permalink**) 06-10-2008, 10:30 PM

Wayne,

Get used to it. With what's on the current market, 6 out of 10 inspections down here involve Zinsco or Sylvania panels. 2 more will have FPE. Just dealt with one today from an inspection last week. The panel had a loud buzzing coming from one of the breakers that had an operating temperature of 126 degrees.

The servicing electrician said everything was fine and that the buzzing was a normal occurrence. Told him to put that in writing like I did and stand behind it when it failed, but couldn't get him to commit to it. His verbal report to the realtor that sent him was that I was too picky and paranoid. Of course, he earns 90 percent of his living from seller's realtors.

Document it or pay the price.

Jeff

Richard Abrams · #6 (**permalink**) 06-13-2008, 05:57 PM

I have found that a lot of insurance companies surcharge for Zinsco brand panels. These had aluminum buss and the breakers were undependable. If they change the zinsco panel out the insurance company will usually give a discount when completed.

Randy Clayton · #7 (**permalink**) 06-16-2008, 07:59 PM

Wayne, report what is there and any problems that exist there.
As far as the problems that are associated with these panels you can of course comment on them but that is not why your there; just point out defects and go on. Many disagree with my opinion just check the log;but you will find these panels all over the gulf coast region. As far as insurance goes allumium wire is a flag panel box type is not....

Jerry Peck · #8 (**permalink**) 06-16-2008, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randy Clayton

As far as the problems that are associated with these panels you can of course comment on them but that is not why your there;

Quite to the contrary ... that *IS* why we are there.

Quote:

Many disagree with my opinion

Could not have said it better myself.

Quote:

but you will find these panels all over the gulf coast region.

Does not matter "how many" were installed, it matter "if you find one", then write it up.

Would you not write up an improperly framed roof just because that type of framing was used all over the Gulf Coast region?

Hopefully, you will say 'No.'.

Quote:

As far as insurance goes allumium wire is a flag panel box type is not....

In many areas, those panel are a flag, others have said so, why would you then say they are not?

Scott Patterson · #9 (**permalink**) 06-17-2008, 08:37 AM

I no longer have a problem when I inspect a Zinsco panel. They use to scare the crap out of me when I went to remove their covers. One time early on in my inspection career I removed the cover and had the bottom 4 breakers slide off the bus bars! Yep, I had to change my shorts. Granted this is rare as most of the time they have fused themselves to the bus bars!

The reason I no longer have a problem with them is that I no longer remove the panel cover! I report that they have inherent problems, they are a bad design, they have been associated with fires across the county and they need to be replaced.

Until you have experienced one with problems first hand as I have, you just will not understand how dangerous they can be.

Randy Clayton · #10 (**permalink**) 06-17-2008, 09:41 PM

Jerry& Scott,
I do not totally disagree with you guys but I will still maintane that if it is funcitioning for which it was intended then let it go...
Although it is true that there have been problems with these panels you can inform your clients of these concerns;but to make such a big deal and that its against the law is just ludicrus!!!! You are going to make me as an homeowner replace this panel box; which has no problems other than its name!! to replace it.l I do not think so

Scott Patterson · #11 (**permalink**) 06-17-2008, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randy Clayton

Jerry& Scott,
I do not totally disagree with you guys but I will still maintane that if it is funcitioning for which it was intended then let it go...
Although it is true that there have been problems with these panels you can inform your clients of these concerns;but to make such a big deal and that its against the law is just ludicrus!!!! You are going to make me as an homeowner replace this panel box; which has no problems other than its name!! to replace it.l I do not think so

Never said it was against the law! As a home inspector I can't make anyone do anything. All I can do is to report what I see and what I know. It is up to my client to decide what they want to do after the are informed of the condition of the home they are looking at buying. It is up to the seller to tell the buyer they can take a hike or that they will repair whatever the buyer is asking them to do. Nobody is being forced to do anything.

It is just a crappy design that our clients need to be aware of. As I have said, until you personally run into one that has a problem you just won't understand. I could understand not being an alarmist if it was only isolated to a handful of problems, but the problems associated with Zinsco's are just too may to ignore.

Using the word Functioning is a cop out. Heck, 80 year old K&T can be Functioning but it is still a fire hazard that you can't get insurance on if a home has it. Old Edison fuse panel can be functioning but they are in the same category as K&T and treated the same by insurance providers.

Randy Clayton · #12 (**permalink**) 06-17-2008, 10:43 PM

Scott, I concure I would just like to see more real sensabillaty in the comments on this page though we need to inform the public we should not scare them either

Billy Stephens · #13 (**permalink**) 06-17-2008, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randy Clayton

-- we should not scare them either

.
Sometimes the Truth can be Scary.

.

Jerry Peck · #14 (**permalink**) 06-18-2008, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randy Clayton

Jerry& Scott,
I do not totally disagree with you guys but I will still maintane that if it is funcitioning for which it was intended then let it go...

Randy,

"if it is funcitioning for which it was intended"

That is precisely the problem ...

The intent of the designers was that it would function as intended, however, as happens to many products - the design, the intent, and reality conditions do not meet in a manner in which the design can perform to the intent within the operating conditions of real life installations.

Quote:

but to make such a big deal and that its against the law is just ludicrus!!!!

To not make a big deal about them is CRIMINAL, and could possibly be criminally negligent homicide!!!! (I think you did 4 !)

As Scott said, we have never said they were against the law, only that they are inherently unsafe.

Quote:

You are going to make me as an homeowner replace this panel box; which has no problems other than its name!! to replace it.l I do not think so

Oh ... ABSOLUTELY SO.

With business smarts and with care and concern for your client, *YOU* would make that RECOMMENDATION also.

Remember, HIs cannot "make me as an homeowner", nor make the client DO ANYTHING. HIs have no enforcement power.

That does not mean we cannot do our job and provide professional opinions and advice.

Jerry Peck · #15 (**permalink**) 06-18-2008, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randy Clayton

Scott, I concure I would just like to see more real sensabillaty in the comments on this page though we need to inform the public we should not scare them either

Randy,

*WE* are being sensible about our comments, and truthful, *YOU* are not being sensible about your comments ...

AND THAT *IS SCARY*!

Scott Patterson · #16 (**permalink**) 06-18-2008, 09:00 AM

Randy, you are a fairly new inspector according to TREC. I don't know your background or your experience in the profession. What we are trying to do is to help you and the thousands of other folks that view this website.

Learn from our experiences and not from those who tell you not to be an alarmist or to write a soft Realtor friendly report. I know that you will not win a popularity contest by being a home inspector who does not sugar coat the truth but it is our job.

So, what can be the results of calling out an FPE or ZINSCO panel? 1.You might save someones life. 2. You might tick off an owner or real estate agent. For some of us, we do one or more of those on a daily basis just by performing a good home inspection.

Ted Menelly · #17 (**permalink**) 06-18-2008, 12:56 PM

Two things

Scott, you say: "Randy, you are a fairly new inspector according to TREC."

I say if you don't know you should not make that statement. I cannot tell you the hundreds of times in four years in Texas that other inspectors that get the same call I do tell the clients "just look at there license # this will tell you how much experience the other inspectors have. My number is xxx." I can not tell you how much that BS pi--es me off with ignorant, pat myself on the back marketing. This only makes me have to explain myself in defence and not just tell the folks of my past history and experience.

Not beating you up Scott but you hit a nerve.

Second

If any panel or system of any kind has a serious history of safety concerns, the only nice thing you can say is there does not appear to be any concerns with the item at this time, but, due to known safety concerns, my recommendation would be to replace this item. Of course, note the concerns.

Ted

Jerry Peck · #18 (**permalink**) 06-18-2008, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted Menelly

If any panel or system of any kind has a serious history of safety concerns, the only nice thing you can say is

Maybe that is all YOU feel YOU can say, but the rest of us (most anyway) have the understanding that we are working for our clients best interests and that WE can say what WE want to ... and that includes stating that those are problematic and that THAT PANEL SHOULD BE REPLACED.

No problem, I have said it hundreds of times for FPE and Zinsco.

Whether or not our clients take our advice ... we (HIs) have no enforcement power, our clients do not have to take ANY of our advice. And many clients only pick and choose what advice to take.

So be it.