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Thread: Stone veneer

  1. #1
    Richard Roshak's Avatar
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    Default Stone veneer

    Take a look at how this stone veneer was installed. If you follow ASTM standards and some manufacturers installation instructions, it has been improperly installed around windows and meter. My question is, is support required at the base of the wall?
    Rich

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Stone veneer

    Looks suspiciously like the stuff I recently posted about:

    http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_i...ne-facing.html

    if it is, I don't see why it would need support, since the "stones" are just pasted onto the wall anyway.


  3. #3
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    Default Re: Stone veneer

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Roshak View Post
    Take a look at how this stone veneer was installed. If you follow ASTM standards and some manufacturers installation instructions, it has been improperly installed around windows and meter. My question is, is support required at the base of the wall?
    Rich
    No it does not need a ledge like brick. Unlike brick, the faux stone does not support the weight of the stone above it. Also you do not have the airspace or through the wall flashing like the brick. If you think of faux stone walls as stucco with chunks of fake rock stuck on it this might make it easier to understand how the system works.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

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    Default Re: Stone veneer

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Roshak View Post
    it has been improperly installed around ... meter.
    That part is correct.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Stone veneer

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    That part is correct.
    Jerry.. Does this mean the installation is correct, or does it mean Richards comment is correct that it's not properly installed?


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    Default Re: Stone veneer

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Harris View Post
    or does it mean Richards comment is correct that it's not properly installed?
    That it is not properly installed around the electrical equipment.

    The rest looks like it 'might be okay' (i.e., cannot tell from the photos), although being mortared directly up to the window trim would likely lead to premature decaying of the window trim wood - and that part is not good either (maybe 'not wrong', but 'not good' either).

    And, if it is 'not good', then it is 'not right', and if it is 'not right', then it is 'wrong' around the window trim.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
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  7. #7
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    Default Re: Stone veneer

    Incorrect at the meter.

    The rest of it might or might not be correct. The other pics indicate OK installation.

    Department of Redundancy Department
    http://www.FullCircleInspect.com/

  8. #8
    Richard Roshak's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stone veneer

    Stone veneer installation begins in the same manner as stucco, the only thing missing is the top coat, here the stone takes its place. Would you not follow the same pratices. Stucco requires termination bead and caulking around all openings, junctions and penetrations. See photo.
    For months with the increasing usage of stone veneer I'm looking for the correct info and advise to give my clients.
    Rich

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  9. #9
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  10. #10

    Default Re: Stone veneer

    This one goes into much greater detail.
    In some areas it does not go far enough

    http://www.culturedstone.com/literat..._Practices.pdf


  11. #11
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    Default Re: Stone veneer

    Neither of those addresses the fact that you need to leave room around the electrical equipment, not for caulking and sealing, but for air circulation.

    The electrical equipment enclosures (metallic one, the non-metallic ones do not require this) are manufactured with stand-off mounting feet which are 1/4" deep and keep the back of the enclosure 1/4" from the wall behind to allow for air to circulate and keep it dry so it does not corrode out.

    You must maintain sufficient and adequate space "around" the enclosures when installing those adhered veneers so as to NOT block or restrict that air flow.

    Plus, whatever is done, DO NOT CAULK OR SEAL that space.

    Nothing addresses "how much space" is needed around the enclosure because *it is assumed that the enclosure will be "on" the wall, not "in" the wall*, so, as a question, 'Will maintaining 1/2" clear opening around the electrical equipment provide for sufficient air movement, or should there be more space?

    I do not have that answer, what are your "best guesses"?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
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  12. #12
    Richard Roshak's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stone veneer

    Jerry,
    If you need the air space and cannot caulk, how would you prevent water penetration? Now if you mount it on the wall how would you seal the screws holding the box and the service wire penetrating the wall? Yes, you could caulk as you mount, however can you guarantee leak free conditions.
    Rich


  13. #13
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    Default Re: Stone veneer

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Roshak View Post
    If you need the air space and cannot caulk, how would you prevent water penetration?
    The wall it is mounted on is the weather barrier.

    In the case of the adhered stone, the wall the adhered stone is adhered to is the weather barrier, the stone does not figure into that.

    Now if you mount it on the wall how would you seal the screws holding the box and the service wire penetrating the wall?
    You don't need to seal the screw holes, they are behind the enclosure and protected from driving rain, and not a lot of rain is going to get behind the wall and run down behind the enclosure, thus those will not be a problem.

    The conduit/SEC penetrating through the wall is sealed before the enclosure is installed on the wall. If the SEC is going in later, then install a conduit raceway for it, seal it where it penetrates through the wall, then install the enclosure.

    Yeah, it takes the electrician actually "doing some thinking" when they are installing the enclosures, but if they are "not thinking" they should "not be working" either.

    If that wall is not sealing back and protecting the building behind it from the weather, including rain, then mounting that enclosure on the wall is not going to 'cause' 'a problem', 'the problem' is 'already there'.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
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  14. #14
    Richard Roshak's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stone veneer

    Right now we have two builders in my area that are removing stucco, brick and stone veneer to the toon of $100,000 per home due to improper installation at penetrations and openings. Every home had a weather barrier installed. Right now it is hard to find a home with the siding properly installed.


  15. #15
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    Default Re: Stone veneer

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Roshak View Post
    Right now it is hard to find a home with the siding properly installed.
    I'm going to guess that they have just learned a hard lesson, that future homes will have the cladding installed correctly, or at least "better".

    Regardless, there is no need to "do something wrong to try to compensate for something else which was done wrong". Install the electrical enclosures properly, with the proper and required 1/4" air space, if the wall is screwed up and leaks, then the wall is screwed up and leaks - the electrical enclosure installation is not going to affect that (unless you take into consideration that the wall where the metal enclosure is installed is not going to leak 'through the metal enclosure', in which case 'that is a good thing' and maybe they need to cover the wall in electrical enclosures .

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

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