Thread: Is this EIFS?

I have identified EIFS vs stucco several times over the past few years using several of the techniques in the old posts that I reviewed prior to this post. However, today is the first time I have come across what may be failing EIFS. So it was the first time I have been sure of the make up of the materials on the house.

It is pretty much an underlayer of 5/8" drywall covered with a 1/4"-3/8" layer of concrete, like a stucco color coat. It is painted.

Is this EIFS or is it just something a builder dreamed up in the 70's?

I have no problem writing my report and telling them a buncha ways this siding is incorrectly installed and is failing without mentioning EIFS. The question is for my education.

Darrel Hood
DILIGENT PROPERTY SERVICES

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Originally Posted by Darrel Hood

It is pretty much an underlayer of 5/8" drywall covered with a 1/4"-3/8" layer of concrete, like a stucco color coat. It is painted.

Darrel,

That's not EIFS, that is exterior gypsum sheathing with stucco on it.

Not sure if One Coat stucco systems have been around that long.

Sure does not sound like it would have been an approved system.

I've seen exterior gypsum sheathing with paper-backed metal lath and 3-coat stucco systems, but not as you described it.

Not enough info.
Is there lath, or "chicken wire" under the stucco?
Is there a paper or some kind of WRB under the lath?
Does it have a weep screed? Metal or plastic?
You state it is "failing". What exactly do you mean?
Is it cracking excessively, or coming off the wall?
Try and fill in the blanks for us, willya?

Thanks, Jerry.

Approved or not doesn't really matter at this point. It is cracking and the gypsum is crumbling. There wasn't any evidence of moisture inside the home and the moisture meter didn't indicate high moisture anywhere. Possibly my inspection comes at a time when repairs are affordable. They will know more when they remove areas of the siding to begin repairs.

Thanks again. I think I will visit the siding suppliers to try to see some examples of EIFS. Sometimes, only when I encounter a situation for the first time do I realize that there is a valuable gap in my knowledge. At least, then it is easily corrected.

Darrel Hood
DILIGENT PROPERTY SERVICES

Darrel,

Do you have any of John's fill-in-the-blank information?

I presumed that if there was metal lath and paper you would have mentioned it.

Originally Posted by John Carroll

Not enough info.
Is there lath, or "chicken wire" under the stucco?
Is there a paper or some kind of WRB under the lath?
Does it have a weep screed? Metal or plastic?
You state it is "failing". What exactly do you mean?
Is it cracking excessively, or coming off the wall?
Try and fill in the blanks for us, willya?

John, I was posting while you were posting.

Yes in some places the concrete was beginning to peel off the bottom 2'-3' of the wall and in most places it was cracking. Everywhere I reached under it, the gypsum was crumbling. There was no lath and I couldn't tell if there was paper on the gypsum. There was clearly no moisture barrier and there was no weep screed, just the exposed edge of the gypsum. By the way the house was surrounded by thick bushes with soaker hoses directly beneath the exposed gypsum edges. The hoses looked fairly new. So the highly humid environment created by the hoses may have accelerated the damage.

I would post pictures, but I have figure out how to get the pictures out of my new camera before I write the report tonight. I hope this filled in some of the blanks.

Darrel Hood
DILIGENT PROPERTY SERVICES

Tell the buyer to run, not walk, away from this house...

Originally Posted by John Carroll

Tell the buyer to run, not walk, away from this house...

I guess you cannot get more clear in this case. Stucco directly to gypsum. The entire exterior will dissolve and or crumble away over time and then the won't have to go to the expense to remove it Then they even get a new interior as well.

Originally Posted by John Carroll

Tell the buyer to run, not walk, away from this house...

John,

On one thread you tell us not to make wholesale assumptions and proclamations of doom, then, on this thread you do just that???

Oh, that's right, you reserve to the right to do so with little information to go on and without knowledge of the entire structure.

What was it that someone said on another recent thread??? I'm getting to old and silly to remember ... oh, yeah ...

Originally Posted by John Carroll

Face it, ..., it just makes you look old and foolish when I have to call you on this crap.

Yes, John, it does make you look old and foolish with that kind of crap.

I don't advise buyers about whether they should, or should not, buy a house. I tell them what I see and do my best to help them understand the situation. Also, whenever I can, I suggest corrective actions. Advising them on the decision to purchase is the realtor's role because a good realtor will know much more about the buyer's objectives than I do.

Darrel Hood
DILIGENT PROPERTY SERVICES

Sometimes you have to just spit it out to the client. From how you are saying there is a gypsum (more than likely brown board) and stucco coated directly to it as you saw the evidence of then the buyers or sellers for that matter have one serious expense ahead and it is OK to tell them so. From what you saw on the home it would be the direct right thing to do to express it to your clients.

I never get into the what fors with clients until it is a serious unequivocal mess that will with out a doubt cost them thousand and thousands of dollars to repair.Scare them away, never, tell them the seriousness of whats going on, yes.

But I am sure it will scare them away. Life is wonderful is it not????

Ted,
I absolutely agree. When I said "help them understand the situation", that includes statements like "serious expense". I just don't give a judgement about the advisability of buying the house.

This house is the right purchase for somebody. It's not my call to say if it's right for these people.

Darrel Hood
DILIGENT PROPERTY SERVICES

Originally Posted by Ted Menelly

From how you are saying there is a gypsum (more than likely brown board)

Ted,

I suspect it is 'exterior gypsum sheathing', formerly made with (and maybe still available with) paper facing but now made with a glass fiber type facing instead of paper and called DensGlass Gold (one brand of it).

Same stuff, just replaced the paper facing with glass fiber.

I also suspect that the problem is that the builder (and his subs) looked at it and said something to the effect of 'Well, dang, inside we used to hang rock lath and just plaster over that with 3-coat, then we went to 'plaster board' (blue board) and plastered over it with One Coat veneer plaster, and here it is outside, I betcha I can just plaster over it with exterior plaster (stucco)'.

And there you have what Darrel is looking at: exterior gypsum sheathing plastered over with exterior plaster (stucco).

Not too bad, except they missed a few steps, such as: wrapping it with a water-resistive barrier; wrapping it with paper-backed metal lath; using the necessary accessories (control joints, corner bead, weep screed, etc.).

That "except they missed a few steps" is the bad part.

I use to do a lot of synthetics on commercial buildings. I never really liked much if any of them. Shoot. I don't really like stucco at all. There has always been to many barriers that stand in the way with application or just plain ole time and future leaks behind. To many areas for water penetration no matter how well it was applied. Then of course all the foam systems. Now you have the water getting behind the foam, somewhere, guaranteed down the road, and by the time you find out you have a problem now the interior walls, insulation, framing all have problems and then there is that wonderful mold stuff to concider.

You'll notice I made my comment AFTER some of my questions were answered.
Unfortunately, there is enough info now in hand to strongly warn someone who obviously has NO idea what they are getting into, if they did, the services of an inspection service would not be needed. But, having stated the obvious, this might be the one buyer in a hundred thousand, who is savvy enough to know that this home could be picked up at a substantial discount, maybe it's in the precise area he wants to live. Maybe he is a stucco subcontractor who intends to restucco this nightmare, who knows? You can postulate all night about the buyer if you want. But to not state the obvious defect here in the most strident of terms possible, would border on malpractice, malfeasance and criminality.
Stucco applied directly to gypsum panels without lath is WRONG, PERIOD.
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Originally Posted by John Carroll

Stucco applied directly to gypsum panels without lath is WRONG, PERIOD.

Except, Dearest John, that you DO NOT KNOW that the ENTIRE structure was done that way.

Which is, after all, your complaint on the other thread ... that we did not know how much was done that way.

I'm holding four aces, so if you are claiming an ace high straight flush, then you are playing with a funny deck.

Originally Posted by Darrel Hood

Ted,
I absolutely agree. When I said "help them understand the situation", that includes statements like "serious expense". I just don't give a judgement about the advisability of buying the house.

This house is the right purchase for somebody. It's not my call to say if it's right for these people.

Darrel Hood
DILIGENT PROPERTY SERVICES

Maybe if we beet the home up enough to the seller he will seriously discount it. We can do a joint venture purchase and flip it after repairs. That is is President Obama has a buyer for us in the wings

Ted,
For all I know, that is exactly what the buyer plans to do. I never met them and don't know the realtor.

Or they may be buying to hold for rental property. That could work, if the price is far below the after repaired value.

Or they may enjoy the sights, sounds and smells of a home falling down around them.

I don't know. My job is to inform them and advise them about the deficiencies I observe. That does not include advice about the purchase of the home.

Darrel Hood
DILIGENT PROPERTY SERVICES

For the nit pickers out there....

At least I asked questions first before I unloaded on this house. It was clear to me that his discription of the problem was not a small area Without pictures, we are left to assume that he has sufficient command of the english language to convey that.
The post you speak of had pictures, evidence was apparent that the problem was localized around the repaired window areas, and no other pictures presented to suggest this was a systemic problem, yet you leapt in to comdemn it all.
It was only after my observation about the windows being replaced or reworked that you backtracked on your original post.

Game, Set, Match.